Honestly, Meowscarada is a very good Pokemon. Power crept Gren and Cinder by a couple of points where it counts, and is one of the fastest unboosted Pokemon in the tier. I enjoy using it, even on a haphazardly slapped together team like I messed with tonight.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Tera Blast
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
This Kingambit set has been putting in great work for me. The threat of Sucker Punch forces a switch, then Kingambit can set up on & beat its most common checks.
- Tera Type Grass works about as well as flying defensively, and it can still set up on common Pokemon with this tera type (i.e. Great Tusk). It has the bonus of being immune to Spore/Leech Seed, though Substitute makes that fairly irrelevant. Defensively it's a little worse than Flying, but it's cooler (and also helps with Garganacl, which I'll touch on soon).
- Tera Blast is really great with the Grass Tera. I will post some calcs below, but this coverage allows it to beat Pokemon that would otherwise handily deal with Kingambit (most notably Great Tusk, Dondozo, and Garganacl). If you look at the Pokemon in OU, after a Swords Dance and a couple fainted allies, not many Pokemon can deal with the Sucker Punch/Tera Blast Grass combo.
- Substitute synergizes really well with this set. It can sub up on Garg so it doesn't take Salt Cure damage, sub on status moves (e.g. Skeledirge Will-O-Wisp), Great Tusk's Earthquake/Headlong Rush, etc., and Kingambit can get a free Swords Dance. It eases up predictions with Sucker Punch, and it has the opportunity to sub many times due to Leftovers. Overall, Substitute is unexpected but really beneficial.
For a lot of these calcs, I'm going with a +2 Kingambit with 2 fainted allies since Swords Dance is really easy to get off with a sub and I usually bring King in during the middle/end of the game (at least 1 fainted ally usually).
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Kingambit: 70-83 (18.9 - 22.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO on Substitute
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 560-660 (150.9 - 177.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 422-498 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Garganacl Body Press vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Kingambit: 82-97 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 37.5% chance to break a Substitute
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 422-500 (104.4 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Kingambit: 75-89 (20.3 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO on Substitute
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 234-276 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 189-223 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Kingambit: 70-83 (18.9 - 22.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO on Substitute +2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 560-660 (150.9 - 177.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO +2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 422-498 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO 252+ Def Garganacl Body Press vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Kingambit: 82-97 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- 37.5% chance to break a Substitute +2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 422-500 (104.4 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252+ Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Grass Kingambit: 75-89 (20.3 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO on Substitute 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 234-276 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO +2 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Tera Grass Kingambit Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 189-223 (62.1 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Survey results are up: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-tiering-surveys.3711911/#post-9510223
Im shocked that the number that high, I mean the bird was extremely broken but for the consensus of qualified responses throwing a bunch of 5s and 4s is just eye opening on how stupid Espathra was.
Are these responses enough to consider a suspect test for Garg? If I remember correctly even the previous survey responses for Garganacl had registered something around 3-3.5 .
i personally don't see garganacl as broken but i also encourage a suspect test of it. if the community at large disagrees with me, so be it, i can admit when i'm wrong
Imo if you’re running Banded, Protean is definitely the preferred option because you’re gonna be locking yourself into one move per switch anyways so you won’t really be “losing” STAB on Flower Trick or Knock Off, and the STAB on U-Turn is usually more consistently useful than the occasional super strong Flower Trick. However, Overgrow is absolutely worth considering on any set that isn’t running Band because the ability to use both Knock Off and Flower Trick without switching and maintain STAB on both is a strong perk. Additionally, it synergizes well with its lead set which often runs sash and Spikes, allowing it to set up a Spike without losing its Grass type and then nuke something with a STAB + Overgrow boosted move, whether that be Flower Trick or Leaf Storm if you choose to tech that for Great Tusk leads. Of course, even those sets certainly would consider running U-Turn, and as long as you run U-Turn, Protean always holds value.
TL;DR: Extremely set dependent; both abilities have value, but Band should always be Protean.
I've also been dubious regarding Garg, especially considering that lately I've shifted my stance in support of acting on it. So I kinda have a "might as well suspect it" approach to the whole situation.
Before going to sleep I wanna leave you guys with a couple of questions, so feel free to respond:
1. Now that both Pao and Espathra have been banned, have you been using more or less defensive mons on your teams? Did your playstyle change?
2. Have you tried running the current UUBL mons on your teams? What are your thoughts on them?
3. What are your opinions on Life Orb in the current meta? Do you feel like it's still as good of an item as it was in the previous gens?
1. Now that both Pao and Espathra have been banned, have you been using more or less defensive mons on your teams? Did your playstyle change?
2. Have you tried running the current UUBL mons on your teams? What are your thoughts on them?
3. What are your opinions on Life Orb in the current meta? Do you feel like it's still as good of an item as it was in the previous gens?
1. About the same. I mainly use balance, and two balance breakers are gone, which is nice for me. Not being forced to use the same few checks to Chien-Pao and Espathra is great, and I'm still figuring out what I like best in this new meta.
2. I love Hydreigon and got suspect reqs for Chien-Pao with it. It only got stronger with the bans, and it can run many sets viably. Great speed tier and also one of the few Ground-immune Pokemon. Bax still doesn't feel amazing imo, though maybe I just haven't built a good team with it yet. CB Bax seems quite strong. I'll have to test more
3. I'm looking through my teams and no Pokemon use Life Orb. A combination of increased HStack and viable priority users makes the residual damage from Life Orb pretty bad. It's not unusable, but you have to be very careful what teams to use it on. Consider if it's worth running over a choice item, Leftovers, HDB, Booster Energy, etc.
Mag is actually still decent in this meta, treads doesn't get too much usage anymore, its more specs analytic which is good compared to the magnet pull set cause with tera steel you can 2hko clod with flash cannon. Also you have to consider the fact that nothing except for tera ground blissey and sandy shocks can take hits from this guy.
252 SpA Choice Specs Analytic Tera Steel Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 246-290 (53.1 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO [ well the roll is in your favour after the analytic goes away].
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1. Been using more bulky offense as i try stuff out. As much as I dont like to use my brain Clicker stuff too fishy for me and certain matchups with hyper offense feel like autolosses/unbearable to play.
2. Bax the only one that comes to mind but that mon is really an OU mon.
3. Items kind of ass but works on certain things like Chain chomp.
1: I still mainly run stall.
2: I use hydreigon as a balance breaker with specs.
3: It…. sucks. No pivoting move, and you get chipped very quickly
1) Nope, BO and Balance are my comfort styles
2) I'm currently using Banded Baxcalibur and man, this thing, hits like those weed brownies you said were nothing but still feel the episodes 10 years later
3) Its not bad per se, but there's too much either instant damage to be done or sweepers with leftovers, maybe if garganacl gets banned we can see LO more
could synergize super well with pokemon such as roaring moon or volcarona who would otherwise not be able to break defensive checks such as toxapex and clodsire. having FS support to blow right past them would make them guaranteed to sweep, especially considering how much damage choice specs iron valiant can do with future sight against the many defensive presences in the tier
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 268-316 (57.7 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 260-308 (85.5 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 402-474 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 612-720 (141 - 165.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 28 SpD Garganacl: 196-231 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 44.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Future Sight vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 261-308 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
1. i've tried using toxapex following the chien-pao and espathra bans but aside from that, i've mostly relied on the same defensive backbones i always had (i.e. skeledirge, hatterene, garganacl, ting-lu, etc.) instead of trying out new ones
2. i run CB baxcalibur on a lot of my teams and it's a crazy strong wallbreaker, especially with tera. usually i pair it with spikes support so that i can get the absolute most out of its wallbreaking capabilities by wearing down defensive checks. the poor speed tier and underwhelming defensive typing can really hurt but it's always worth it whenever you can pull it off. NP hydreigon is something i've tested as well with and i think it's super underrated with how easily it rips past would-be checks such as clodsire and skeledirge, and that's to say nothing of how much opportunities it has to come in and set up thanks to its resistance-laden typing and ground immunity. i haven't ran into much issues with it aside from, again, a lackluster speed tier, and the fairy and fighting weaknesses coupled with the loss of roost really suck. both of these pokemon are quite good i'd say, and while i do have my fair share of issues with them, i think they're overall worth using
3. life orb has its merits on some pokemon (mostly mixed attackers like garchomp and iron valiant) but otherwise i'd just run something else. longevity is hard to maintain in this hazard-infested metagame and running an item that chips you for 10% each turn does not help that either. it does come in handy when you need to pick up some needed OHKOs/2HKOs (LO hydreigon 2HKOs clodsire with draco meteor after hazards whereas non-LO variants do not) but that's really just about it. overall i'd generally rather use a different item unless i really need the power boost
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1. While the number of defensive mons in my teams didn't change, it is nice to be able to use more options with those 2 banned. Not only are there more options for defensive pokemon, mons I already used now have more tera options without needing to worry about getting murdered by Pao or Emu.
2. I think both Hydra and Bax are incredible especially after the bans. Tera poison Nasty plot Hydra puts in crazy work and Banded Bax is incredibly hard to switch into. Love using both of these.
3. Not gonna lie Life Orb is pretty bad, the chip is just not worth it a lot of the time. I have it on like just 1 team on a Chain Chomp, and even then I'd prefer to run something else it's just that you really need it for those Dracos to sting.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-charity-bowl-iv.3716348/post-9510427
Please check out this thread or the pinned thread in this subforum for information on the Smogon Charity Bowl that we will have this weekend!!!
It is very important to me and it is an SV OU tournament. Please message me with any questions.
We will be raising funds for the Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS) Foundation after the recent earthquake.
Please check out this thread or the pinned thread in this subforum for information on the Smogon Charity Bowl that we will have this weekend!!!
It is very important to me and it is an SV OU tournament. Please message me with any questions.
We will be raising funds for the Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS) Foundation after the recent earthquake.
Amazing initiative from Smogon's part, I have several Turkish friends with relatives affected by the earthquake, and from what they've told me they really need all the help they can get.
I just want to note that Future Sight is not boosted by items such as Choice Specs unless you're currently on the field. You're not just gonna sit there clicking Future Sight for 3 turns straight, so the only realistic scenario where the Specs boost applies is if you immediately switch out and switch back in, in which case you're not taking advantage of the "opponent has to tank 2 moves in one turn" aspect of Future Sight which is literally its entire point. For this reason, specs is generally a very bad item for a Future Sight user.
ah, thanks for letting me know. do you have any other item suggestions?
I think scarf is good for FS shenanigans, get in, get one, goodbye, booster energy is a bad item for the one time boost and the rest does not affect, maybe expert belt if your feeling gangster, but I don't know.
All boosting items are ignored by FS if you're not on the field, so generally you don't want to run those. I could see boots being decent since you're likely pivoting in and out a lot to get off Future Sights. That said, I've never tested non-STAB Future Sight so I don't know how well it works in practice and if the damage is high enough. Cool idea though.
Edit: Kabilapok Future Sight is calculated with the original user's special attack stat and typing taken into account (while ignoring items), not whoever's on the field. I think it maybe functioned like that in some old gen, but not anymore.
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I really like this set. Grass is an offensive type that can really cleave a team through a team’s defensive core, especially when pocketed as a surprise Tera type, Grass also synergies very well with Supreme Overlord bypassing Unaware. I also love how you pair it with dual screens, as Kingambit has good bulk and naturally beats Dragapult, whose Infiltrator ability normally bypasses screens. Very creative.
Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Tera Blast
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
This Kingambit set has been putting in great work for me. The threat of Sucker Punch forces a switch, then Kingambit can set up on & beat its most common checks.
I'll share a couple of replays with this set sweeping teams. I highly recommend it, and it has been putting in really great work for me.
- Tera Type Grass works about as well as flying defensively, and it can still set up on common Pokemon with this tera type (i.e. Great Tusk). It has the bonus of being immune to Spore/Leech Seed, though Substitute makes that fairly irrelevant. Defensively it's a little worse than Flying, but it's cooler (and also helps with Garganacl, which I'll touch on soon).
- Tera Blast is really great with the Grass Tera. I will post some calcs below, but this coverage allows it to beat Pokemon that would otherwise handily deal with Kingambit (most notably Great Tusk, Dondozo, and Garganacl). If you look at the Pokemon in OU, after a Swords Dance and a couple fainted allies, not many Pokemon can deal with the Sucker Punch/Tera Blast Grass combo.
- Substitute synergizes really well with this set. It can sub up on Garg so it doesn't take Salt Cure damage, sub on status moves (e.g. Skeledirge Will-O-Wisp), Great Tusk's Earthquake/Headlong Rush, etc., and Kingambit can get a free Swords Dance. It eases up predictions with Sucker Punch, and it has the opportunity to sub many times due to Leftovers. Overall, Substitute is unexpected but really beneficial.
For a lot of these calcs, I'm going with a +2 Kingambit with 2 fainted allies since Swords Dance is really easy to get off with a sub and I usually bring King in during the middle/end of the game (at least 1 fainted ally usually).
The only thing I don’t like about this set is that it is very committal to being your Tera user, which leaves your team rather inflexible in the event you need to emergency Tera to prevent being swept. If you Tera something else, King’s only attacking option is SP, which is pretty exploitable.
Off topic, I've been running Knock Off on Scarf / Mixed / Specs variants of Iron Valiant. Even though it has a bunch of other great moves and it is hard to fit into 4 slots. I really like it because if I can't fit Tusk on a team, it fixes that problem where I at least have 1 mon with Knock Off, which I think is crucial depending on the matchups.
this is the main thing that i think is keeping garganacl somewhat in check right now (besides covert cloak, which is a good item, don't @ me). meowscarada, breloom, grass knot greninja, and the occasional brute bonnet and toesdcruel all threaten tera water sets both pre- and post-tera, and that's just the mons that don't need to tera to be grass-types—we've also got volcarona, glimmora, and a handful of other mons who like running tera grass from time to time
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