I hope we get another public vote about some of the stuff being discussed on this thread- Tera, Mag, the Shi(t)fus, Zama-H, just to see the how people REALLY feel. In the Tera thread, 80% of the thread was people saying Tera was busted and had it as their 1st or 2nd choice but then when the votes came out it didn't even scrape team preview.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Keep telling yourself that bud.
To avoid being a one liner: i'm really hoping Chi-Yu isnt getting dropped into the tier again, as we have all of nothing that checks specs ChiYu defensively. Heatran is cute into scarf Yu until you realize scarf 3HKOs spdef Tran with Dark Pulse with rocks up, and like everything else can just lose to flinch hax. Hopefully that fish stays in ubers. And specs 2HKOs like lol.
I also hope we don't have to put up with Espathra either. I know some peoole think the lack of shed tail would make it easier to handle, but the bird didnt require shed tail support. It could run sub itself and be BS still, and we did see this. It's just too polarizing in a tera metagame.
The main reasoning I'd previously read on why Urshifu-S got booted to Ubers last gen was because it pretty much forced in Fairies and Mandibuzz, and then those guys still got worn down long-term (especially with Future Sight support).
This is Gen 9. We lost Clefable. Our best Fairies cannot take two STAB hits from Choice Band Jolly Urshifu-S:
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 159-188 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus on a critical hit: 183-216 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Note that Azumarill can dodge the 2HKO, but it's not a guarantee:
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO)
Hoopa-U admittedly gets similar calcs with Choice Band Hyperspace Fury and coverage:
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus: 191-225 (66 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 498-588 (172.3 - 203.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But Urshifu-S's 97 base Speed wipes the floor with Great Tusk, Baxcalibur, and slower, while Hoopa-U's 80 base Speed means Choice Band it can't risk switching into mons it should beat (read: it checks) but it does not outspeed such as Gholdengo and Meloetta:
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 266-315 (88 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Meloetta Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 138-164 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Other than random defensive mons going Tera Fairy, I'd say Urshifu-S gloriously lost more mons that could remotely switch in than the crowd it faced in Gen 8. Urshifu-S should stay Uber this gen.
As a bonus, let's see how well those defensive Tera Fairy mons really do against Choice Band Urshifu-S (note that Adamant Urshifu-S is slower than Jolly Baxcalibur):
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 147-173 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge on a critical hit: 138-162 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 161-190 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge on a critical hit: 151-178 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 128-151 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Garganacl on a critical hit: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Cresselia: 148-175 (33.3 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Cresselia on a critical hit: 140-165 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 3HKO
...Huh, they stand a chance. Unfortunately, a bunch of them must be checks and need to Tera Fairy the first turn they see the dark bear, making Urshifu-S a really good Tera baiter.
This is Gen 9. We lost Clefable. Our best Fairies cannot take two STAB hits from Choice Band Jolly Urshifu-S:
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 159-188 (55 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus on a critical hit: 183-216 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 193-228 (53 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Note that Azumarill can dodge the 2HKO, but it's not a guarantee:
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO)
Hoopa-U admittedly gets similar calcs with Choice Band Hyperspace Fury and coverage:
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus: 191-225 (66 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Iron Valiant: 498-588 (172.3 - 203.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 188-222 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But Urshifu-S's 97 base Speed wipes the floor with Great Tusk, Baxcalibur, and slower, while Hoopa-U's 80 base Speed means Choice Band it can't risk switching into mons it should beat (read: it checks) but it does not outspeed such as Gholdengo and Meloetta:
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 266-315 (88 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed KO in 2 turns after Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Meloetta Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 138-164 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Other than random defensive mons going Tera Fairy, I'd say Urshifu-S gloriously lost more mons that could remotely switch in than the crowd it faced in Gen 8. Urshifu-S should stay Uber this gen.
As a bonus, let's see how well those defensive Tera Fairy mons really do against Choice Band Urshifu-S (note that Adamant Urshifu-S is slower than Jolly Baxcalibur):
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 147-173 (35.7 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge on a critical hit: 138-162 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 161-190 (39.1 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge on a critical hit: 151-178 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Garganacl: 128-151 (31.6 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tera Fairy Garganacl on a critical hit: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Cresselia: 148-175 (33.3 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Cresselia on a critical hit: 140-165 (31.5 - 37.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 3HKO
...Huh, they stand a chance. Unfortunately, a bunch of them must be checks and need to Tera Fairy the first turn they see the dark bear, making Urshifu-S a really good Tera baiter.
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Slowking-G is going to be interesting. Its Assault Vest set is going to play largely the same as it did last generation, but its non-AV sets got some strong additions. Toxic is kinda neat, letting it reliably cripple various walls like Skeledirge, Alolamola & Ting-Lu. That being said, while a good move, I don't think it will be all that useful on Slowking-G specifically because a lot of the Pokemon it invites in like Gambit and Gholdengo are immune to Toxic. I think Sludge Bomb will be the preferred choice in most cases since it doubles as a really strong STAB attack and status tool. The much cooler (heh) addition is Chilly Reception since it lets Slowking-G do the same Futureport shenanigans its Kantonian cousin does and provides Hail support for Baxcalibur (and Glaceon for the true chads out there). Considering that Slowking-G was a top tier pokemon even when it didn't have a pivoting move last generation, this could be potentially huge, especially since Slowking-G's typing gives it fewer weakness's than normal Slowking, giving it more opportunities to give its teammates free switch-ins.
That being said, Slowking-G has to deal with a few new struggles too. Slack Off PP being reduced is annoying but not a dealbreaker considering Slowking-G has Regenerator. The bigger issue is that the SV meta is a lot less hospitable to it than the SS meta. SV introduced a lot of new bad MUs for it like Ting-Lu, Gholdengo, Kingambit, Roaring Moon, and Great Tusk, while removing some its good MUs from the prior gen like Tapu Koko. It matches up decently well vs some of the newcomers too, like Iron Valiant, but its MU chart this gen seems to be more negative overall.
I don't think Tera really affects Slowking-G all that much. Its poison STAB is very nice vs the myriad of other Pokemon that will be using Tera Fairy. As a Tera user itself, Slowking-G seems like it'll use it defensively to patch up key holes in one's team composition, similar to base Slowking. I think Poison and Fire will be the default Tera-types, but it can pretty much run anything the plug up some wholes in the team comp, like Tera Fairy to beat dragons, Tera Flying to troll Great Tusk, etc.
That being said, Slowking-G has to deal with a few new struggles too. Slack Off PP being reduced is annoying but not a dealbreaker considering Slowking-G has Regenerator. The bigger issue is that the SV meta is a lot less hospitable to it than the SS meta. SV introduced a lot of new bad MUs for it like Ting-Lu, Gholdengo, Kingambit, Roaring Moon, and Great Tusk, while removing some its good MUs from the prior gen like Tapu Koko. It matches up decently well vs some of the newcomers too, like Iron Valiant, but its MU chart this gen seems to be more negative overall.
I don't think Tera really affects Slowking-G all that much. Its poison STAB is very nice vs the myriad of other Pokemon that will be using Tera Fairy. As a Tera user itself, Slowking-G seems like it'll use it defensively to patch up key holes in one's team composition, similar to base Slowking. I think Poison and Fire will be the default Tera-types, but it can pretty much run anything the plug up some wholes in the team comp, like Tera Fairy to beat dragons, Tera Flying to troll Great Tusk, etc.
Fr, forget the ice skates mecha deliberd set with chilly reception Slowking in the Palafin meta.
slowking @ HDB
252 bold or 216 bold
- Chilly reception
- Psychic
- filler
- filler
Ice skates mecha delibird set
Iron bundle @ HDB
Timid
- Blizzard
- Freeze dry
- U turn / encore / filler
- Hydropump
We have ice skates chien pao, weavile or ice skates Tera ice eleki with chilly reception glowking. Hopefully ice skates kyurem comes soon too. Sounds like a fun way to play ice types.
slowking @ HDB
252 bold or 216 bold
- Chilly reception
- Psychic
- filler
- filler
Ice skates mecha delibird set
Iron bundle @ HDB
Timid
- Blizzard
- Freeze dry
- U turn / encore / filler
- Hydropump
We have ice skates chien pao, weavile or ice skates Tera ice eleki with chilly reception glowking. Hopefully ice skates kyurem comes soon too. Sounds like a fun way to play ice types.
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what the hell is ice skates ahahahahhaahhahahaha i loove itFr, forget the ice skates mecha deliberd set with chilly reception Slowking in the Palafin meta.
slowking @ HDB
252 bold or 216 bold
- Chilly reception
- Psychic
- filler
- filler
Ice skates mecha delibird set
Iron bundle @ HDB
Timid
- Blizzard
- Freeze dry
- U turn / encore / filler
- Hydropump
We have ice skates chien pao, weavile or ice skates Tera ice eleki with chilly reception glowking. Hopefully ice skates kyurem comes soon too. Sounds like a fun way to play ice types.
Just a reminder that somebody voted OU for:
-Chi-Yu
-Iron Bundle
-Flutter Mane
-Espathra
-Palafin
-Urshifu Single-Strike
(pls don’t attack said person, just telling y’all cause it’s kinda funny)
-Chi-Yu
-Iron Bundle
-Flutter Mane
-Espathra
-Palafin
-Urshifu Single-Strike
(pls don’t attack said person, just telling y’all cause it’s kinda funny)
Away for one day and look at the state of this LMAO
Have to say I expected Pao to come back. I'm of the opinion that Pao wasn't nearly as broken as most of the other stuff we banned and I'm all for giving it another chance in a new, much stronger meta. My only real problem with it is we're not getting much more from HOME to deal with it, even in terms of soft answers – Mage, Volcanion, and the Shifus are the shakiest of checks and I don't see much else unless Zama comes down. Basically we have to rely on mostly old tricks to beat it, with the pleasant additions of the aforementioned mons as well as Intim pivoting with Lando-T and Static from Zapdos - but it's still mostly down to prediction in the end. If all else fails, back to running mickey mouse Flame Body Heatran, it's like Weav was never nerfed!
Eleki I have to say I was more surprised by, but I understand it. It's so Tera-reliant that it's really an all-or-nothing option, and in a meta full of priority and specially defensive Grounds (some of which can even handle it after Tera) it may well not be broken at all. Plus it's always nice to have a fresh hazard control mon since we're not getting any others of note from HOME.
bye bye horsey
Have to say I expected Pao to come back. I'm of the opinion that Pao wasn't nearly as broken as most of the other stuff we banned and I'm all for giving it another chance in a new, much stronger meta. My only real problem with it is we're not getting much more from HOME to deal with it, even in terms of soft answers – Mage, Volcanion, and the Shifus are the shakiest of checks and I don't see much else unless Zama comes down. Basically we have to rely on mostly old tricks to beat it, with the pleasant additions of the aforementioned mons as well as Intim pivoting with Lando-T and Static from Zapdos - but it's still mostly down to prediction in the end. If all else fails, back to running mickey mouse Flame Body Heatran, it's like Weav was never nerfed!
Eleki I have to say I was more surprised by, but I understand it. It's so Tera-reliant that it's really an all-or-nothing option, and in a meta full of priority and specially defensive Grounds (some of which can even handle it after Tera) it may well not be broken at all. Plus it's always nice to have a fresh hazard control mon since we're not getting any others of note from HOME.
bye bye horsey
IMO it would be like Garg, a strong mon that remove its biggest weakness with tera so it becames super good to the point you won't feel like your waste your tera using on it 99% of the cases.
Also, a small and niche thing, but tera ice + snow allows Leki to avoid certain relevant KOs. Example: 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Ice Regieleki in Snow: 225-265 (74.7 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think 
and 
would be great partners in SV OU
Theres only a few scarfers / booster mons which outspeed Jolly 252 - 
which can threaten with EQ or Iron Head post tera (though im pretty sure stab crunch would OHKO / near ohko after hazards anyways)
Scarf
is also an option, with Low Kick being a base 100 power move against Regieleki, easily ohkoing after tera ice
I guess theres some other stuff, like Scarf
flamethrower doing 101% minimum to 0hp / 4SpD after it tera ices
I think for the reason most of the stuff outrunning regi will be dragons, and dark types, i think tera fairy could be a viable option
But i think would be a great partner for , as the pokemon threatens huge damage on checks like 
,any tera fairy users 
and even fast threats like scarf and if it gets an Unburden boost.
You could use Switcheroo to damage any special walls with a choice scarf, or use Switcheroo on a knocked off pokemon to get the unburden boost (i think thats how it works?)
and both get switching, and I think they’ll make a super deadly combo who cover eachothers weaknesses pretty well
p.s I think psychic teams
are gonna go crazy, you stop priority revenge killing from 
I also think Assault Vest
stocks will go up lmao
thanks for reading, sorry if any bad grammar
and would be great partners in SV OUTheres only a few scarfers / booster mons which outspeed Jolly 252
- which can threaten with EQ or Iron Head post tera (though im pretty sure stab crunch would OHKO / near ohko after hazards anyways)Scarf
is also an option, with Low Kick being a base 100 power move against Regieleki, easily ohkoing after tera iceI guess theres some other stuff, like Scarf
flamethrower doing 101% minimum to 0hp / 4SpD after it tera ices I think for the reason most of the stuff outrunning regi will be dragons, and dark types, i think tera fairy could be a viable option
But i think
would be a great partner for , as the pokemon threatens huge damage on checks like ,any tera fairy users and even fast threats like scarf and if it gets an Unburden boost.You could use Switcheroo to damage any special walls with a choice scarf, or use Switcheroo on a knocked off pokemon to get the unburden boost (i think thats how it works?)
and both get switching, and I think they’ll make a super deadly combo who cover eachothers weaknesses pretty wellp.s I think psychic teams
are gonna go crazy, you stop priority revenge killing from I also think Assault Vest
stocks will go up lmaothanks for reading, sorry if any bad grammar
It’s a - usually fast and strong - ice type with a set optimised to take advantage of chilly reception pivoting and the overall play style.
the most obvious use case was ice skates bundle, because the no-miss blizzard spam was disgusting. It’s what made me realise mecha delibird was better than flutter mane (this was before the flutter mane ban, and remained fun for a while, skating all over peak palafin meta).
any fast or strong ice type appreciates the 50% defense boost against priority attacks.
glowking is particularly good due to its uncanny tendency to switch into almost every single defensive pokemon in OU
ice skaters also tend to dunk on the grounds it lures, and have good matchups vs most steels or poisons that might switch in.
This still does nothing to highlight the differences that Zacian have that make it so vastly superior to Chien Pao, but if you wanna be fixated on the speed and attack similarities be my guest
The emus have officially lost
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
I mean, technically speaking, the emus have won because they're too stronk for ou
Darkshifu with Tera is a fucking terrifying concept, this thing is absolutely buffed from last gen, Tera and SD more than make up for the (slight) wicked blow BP nerf. Also no buzzwole this gen. Lovely.
Maternal with Tera is also gonna be an absolute menace, honestly looking forward to playing around with its 5-10 completely busted different sets.
Unanimous Spectrier ban might be the council's biggest W in the past few years
Maternal with Tera is also gonna be an absolute menace, honestly looking forward to playing around with its 5-10 completely busted different sets.
Unanimous Spectrier ban might be the council's biggest W in the past few years
personally I haven't found much issues with both urshifu forms from non stop testing for the last 2 days. especially for dark it is extremely oppressive and there really isn't any switchins to +2 tera dark wicked blow or surging strikes but apparently for the home meta 322 speed is too slow
not much I can say except its easy to revenge kill with faster stuff BUT
I do think that they require a suspect because not everything is confirmed yet
and if the zamas are staying (hopefully they are tbh) then urshifu won't be too much of a problem since from experience zama-c takes 60 from +2 tera water surging strikes and im sure wicked will do less
other answers such as Tauros water is amazing too since it kills 2 birds with 1 stone in correlation to walling Chien pao and urshifu at the same time with intimidate and great typing
just use faster mons or booster energy
if anything its arguable that rs is better than single rn since its offensive typing for the meta RN is better considering the amount of fairy spammers and zama c and magearna's literally everywhere
zReptar
formerly LT83AQ Lou
Espathra without shed is slightly more manageable but screens rn seems to strong with it. Mage so far in testing has been good but not quite broken for me at least.
zReptar
formerly LT83AQ Lou
Based decision
Oh god you just reminded me to be grateful we aren't gonna be in a metagame where Shed Tail Pao/Magearna/Eleki exists.
Can you imagine if Home had released before those bans. We would have degeneracy like never before.
zReptar
formerly LT83AQ Lou
It would have been absolute chaos my friend.
the fact someone voted to let iron bundle and flutter mane back into ou makes me question what the hell whoever on the council was thinking, because nobody in their right minds wants those two back
zReptar
formerly LT83AQ Lou
They want fun thats fine ;)
ESPATHRA WAS A UU MON FOR A MONTH WHY ARE YOU KEEPING IT IN PURGATORY THIS IS SO UNFAIR
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