Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Although I will say it's crazy that we have to go so far to counter this thing. I think Chi-Yu might need to go on the radar as well, because it feels like a better Tapu Lele, which was already an overwhelming offensive presence in gen 8 OU, a gen that had more defensive options than we have in current gen 9 meta. Beads of ruin is essentially a Psychic Terrain that works for all types as lowering enemy spdef by 25% feels very comparable in term of damage amplification to boosting psychic type moves by 33%. It's also effectively better versus pokemon with big spdef and doesn't have a time limit attached to it.
I think Chi-Yu deserves some time in the tier before it gets banned. Compared to Bundle, who is fast enough that it gets the luxury of choosing between Boots and Specs, Chi-yu is forced to run Scarf (people run specs too but I think Chi-yu's damage is ridiculous enough that it's totally unneeded). With Gholdengo and hazard stack around, Chi-Yu can only come in so many times, and it's pretty easy to revenge with your own scarfer or Mach Punch. They are typically always choiced locked, you'll have a much easier time switching around a Chi-Yu than Bundle. Fire + Dark isn't the same insane coverage as Water + Freeze Dry either. Overall, I feel as if Chi-Yu is easier to wear down, easier to revenge, and requires much more support from your team. Don't get me wrong, it's threatening and maybe it should be suspected down the line, but I don't think it's banworthy right now.
 
Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Liquidation

Its really easy to set up Belly drum epecially with Cyclizar shed tail support. Even Palafin can be setup bait. Being Water/Fairy type gives it the added advantage of being resistant to common priority moves like Sucker punch and First impression while also taking neutral damage from bullet punch.

People are running Palafin checks which can make sweeping a bit harder but if you Terastalize you can nuke them too.

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 333-392 (77 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (OHKO after tera)
 
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1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
Did Clef got Nuked and thats the reason Sylveon will be OU?
Fun fact: Sylveon was OU in last gen before discovering WishPort clef
 
Speaking of underrated wish passers:

Vaporeon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Surf
- Tera Blast
- Protect

Vaporeon with Fire typing is gross specifically right now as an Iron Bundle answer. But also, Water Absorb on a fire type is just good in general. A lot of the switch ins that want to come to Vaporeon are Amoongus/Meowscarada and similar. This is really straightforward overall but its a hard counter to Iron Bundle, Protect right now is SUPER good because there's so many band/specs + Proto teams going around, and I'm finding that this pairs specifically very well with Ghost Tera Garganacl, with a lot of flexibility in which you'd prefer for a given matchup.

Also yeah Sylveon is doing great. Only issue I saw was a Annihilape was running a terra steel for a fairy breaker but that can't run sub so who cares, anything can handle subless Annihilape.

Toadscruel did not work in any testing. His bulky is terrible enough that the matchup into Ghouldengo is surprisingly still Gholdengo-favored.
 
I know this has been said before but it is so refreshing to have so much transparency and communication from the council to know where their head is at. This is the most fun I’ve ever had at the start of the meta, and the most welcoming and non-toxic environment I’ve ever seen Smogon have in years. Hats off to the council, mods, and coders who all work so hard to make our community possible. (Special thanks especially to Finch!)

As for the meta itself - I don’t want to retreat any tired ground about how completely busted Palafin is, the fact that Iron Bundle has no switch-ins beyond Blissey, or the fact that terra may prove to be a bit much once the meta settles down.

Rather I want to ask a few questions:

-How are you all handling Chien-Pao? What reliable counters do you use?
-Have you found any specific, creative answers to big threats in the meta?
-Most under-rated mon?
-Most over-rated mon?
-Has anyone had any success with Espathra? I am trying to make that thing work for a friend who loves it but MAN it sucks. Any tips?
I would like to answer your question’s as it seems others have either overlooked your comment or simply don’t know the answers.
I will share with you my team set ups.
I will share with you how my team has evolved so far during Gen 9.
I will share with you some replays of my team in action.

The below link was my Pre-Ban set up in Gen 9.
https://pokepast.es/061fea03ac1dedc8

A few Pokémon I used in the above set up were designed to help me counter some of the Meta at that time.
The Top 3 Meta Defining Pokémon during the above time were:
1 - Flutter Mane
2 - Houndstone
3 - Chien-Po

1 - I built Tinkeraton to be my Flutter Mane Counter.
Tinkeraton high Special Def. + Typing allowed her to counter Flutter Mane as long as the Flutter Mane didn’t do any Tera Type Changes.
Stealth Rocks + Rocky Helmet Damage by themselves with Continuous Resting from Tinkeraton was enough to kill Flutter Mane.

In addition, If Tinkeraton managed to get off a Gigaton Hammer, it was often a one shot even on fully healed Flutter Mane.
Tinkeraton proved to be great Pokémon which saved me few times during that Era of Gen 9.

2 - I built Arboliva to be my Houndstone Counter.
Arboliva Dou Typing worked well above my expectations.
Arboliva Normal Typing Shut down Houndstones Iconic Ghost move Last Respects due to being immune.
Arboliva Grass Typing Shut down Houndstones other moves allowing Arboliva to wall off Houndstone ultimately forcing it to switch.

3 - I built Iron Hands to be my Chien-Po Counter.
Chien-Po Dou Type (Dark & Ice) makes him have a 4x Weakness to Fighting.
Chien-Po High Atk stat + Priority moves makes him be a very dangerous Psychical Attacker.

I searched the Pokédex for a Fighting Type Pokémon with High Defense that could withstand Chien-Po Brutal Attacks.
My search lead me to the Iron Hands one of the greatest discoveries I ever had.

The Iron Hands has playstyle I really enjoy.
The Iron Hands is a Brawler!
The Iron Hands can takes some hits and he can dish out some hits, baby!

The revelation I had was in what item to put on him.
I thought about using a Berry or Leftovers to give him some extra healing besides only his Draining Punch.

What ended up stopping me from giving a Berry or Leftovers is my team, I like to examine all the items on my team,
I noticed several of my Pokémon were using Leftovers already.
I noticed I had a Pokémon using a Berry.

Using the same item‘s on all your Pokémon is usually bad.
You are often missing out on other items which could help your team as a whole.

This is when I realized I have no one using Assault Vest.
Than I looked at my Iron Hands and most of the moves I initially put on him were all attacking moves.
Iron Hands is the perfect Assault Vest User!

We put our EV’s in Defense to withstand our main objective is Psychical Attacker (Chien-Po).
Assault Vest allows us to Strenghten our Special Defense giving us extra toughness and allows us to survive a hit from a Special Attacker which we might not have survived.

AFTER THE BAN OF FLUTTER MANE & HOUNDSTONE, MY TEAM CHANGED.
I was also give improvement advice from the forum community.

My current Pokemon team is the following:
https://pokepast.es/c46e1be19fc74de0

I will go over the minor changes which were made to my team first.

Clodsire - Stealth Rock vs. Spikes
I like Stealth Rocks, but I ended up changing to Spikes due to being able to add multiple layers.
I thought the extra Spike layers could potentially offer more Damage vs. Single Rocks.

I changed my Clodsire EV’s to be more Defensive to handle rival Leads/Hazard setters.
I ran into situations where my enemy would 1 shot me with Great Task, Garchop, or Iron Tread.

Skeledirge - Shadow Ball vs. Hex
I like the idea of doing big hit with Hex, but it practice it never happened.
I decided to change to Shadow Ball sense it is a little more base power.

Iron Bundle - U-Turn vs. Flip Turn
I found U-Turn is better if you lead with Iron Bundle.

If you Lead Iron Bundle and Enemy Leads Clodsire with Water Absorb,The difference between what Turn move you do matters.
Sometimes, Leading Bundle and pivoting out can be a safe play if your worried the enemy might be Ultra Aggressive on your Clodsire.

I will go over the minor changes which were recommended to me by players in this forum next.

Lil Benjii - Recommended that I changed Thunder Punch to Wild Charge on my Iron Hands Pokémon.
The change would help Iron Hands defeat a Bulk up Palafin.

Several Players - Recommended that I changed Whirlpool to Freeze Dry on my Iron Bundle Pokémon.
The change would help Iron Bundle do more over all damage.

Alephgalactus - Recommended that I changed Choice Scarf item to Choice Specs item on Iron Bundle Pokémon.
Alephgalactus explained Iron Bundle is already fast so their is no need to get the extra speed and it would be better with just extra damage.

I will go over the major changes to my team next.


With the Departure of Flutter Mane & Houndstone, I felt Tinkeraton & Arboliva didn’t really need to be on the team any more.
I think they are great Pokémon, but I was in the market of trying Different Pokémon.

Tinkeraton is Steel & Fairy Type.
I do like the Steel typing so I was in the market of trying out different Steel Pokémon.

I decided to go with a Classic Gen 8 Pokémon Corviknight.
I liked the idea of introducing Corviknight to the team because it gave me access to Defog to remove Enemy Hazards.
My previous team had no Hazard remove, I felt enemy hazards was a potential weakness my other team had.

Arboliva is Grass & Normal Type.
I did like the Grass Typing so I found Wo-Chein.

The reason I picked Wo-Chein over other Grass types is because of the new rising power houses.
The ban‘s of Flutter Mane & Houndstone left a power vacuum which ended up being filled by new rising stars.

The New Top 12 Meta Defining Pokémon after previous ban has emerged:
Keep in mind, Hyper Offense at its max destroys all other play styles making them unviable.
The nerfing/toning down of very powerful H.O Pokémon helps promote different play styles.

These different play styles ultimately end up with Devastating Sweepers of their own.
We currently have 4 different play styles which have emerged.
- Hyper Offense
- Set Up Sweepers
- Bulky Sweepers
- Stall

The Top 3 Hyper Offense Pokemon:
1 - Chein-Po
2 - Iron Bundle
3 - Dragon Pult
Honorable Mention - Barraskewda

The Top 3 Set Up Sweeper Pokémon:
1 - Roaring Moon
2 - Iron Valiant
3 - Espathra

The Top 3 Bulky Sweeper Pokémon:
1 - Palafin
2 - Annilhape
3 - Chi-Yu
Honorable Mention - Skeledirge

The Top 3 Stall Pokémon:
1 - Gholdengo
2 - Gargancl
3 - Orthworm

I created my team to try and handle the Hyper Offense Pokémon.
Hyper Offense is usually more popular vs. other play styles so those Pokémon will often show up more in battles.

My Iron Hands should handle Chein-Po, Gargancl, & Barraskewda

I have replay of Iron Hands laying the smack down on Gargancl.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718732691

My Wo-Chein should handle Iron Bundle, Dragon Pult, & Gholdengo

I have very sweet replay showing how every time my opponent entered with Iron Bundle I switched into Wo-Chein to counter.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718701703-84myyh2k58bh2du9sbfzdifavw5al07pw

Same Replay as before, but you can see a glimpse of Wo-Chein taking on Gholdengo.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1718732691

My Skeledirge has been doing very good vs. Set Up Sweepers.
Skeledirge Unaware Ability + Torch Song allows him to boost up and snowball.
I had some replays of it, but they expired.

In closing, I will answer your last remaining questions + give your friend tips.
I think the most under rated Pokemon is Skeledirge.
Skeledirge has won me so many games.

I think the most over-rated Pokémon is Chein-Po
Chein-Po is are carbon copy of Gen 8 Weavile.

I don’t understand why the same Checks/Counters from Weavile Gen 8 can’t be used for Chein-Po Gen 9
https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/weavile

Lastly, I think Espadra is great Pokémon which can be a Set Up Sweeper.
My recommendation is to run her with Grimmsnarl + Cyclizar.

The Goal with Espadra is very simple.
All you want to do is Boost up her Sp. ATK with the move Calm Mind.

Once, you get her to like +2, you begin firing off moves.
The goal is to faint the entire enemy team with her.

Simple, Easy, & Effective - However, their is a catch.
The catch is how will you do the move Calm mind?

If your Espadra does Calm Mind, The enemy will do move as well which could potentially kill your Espadra before it has chance to boost up.
This is where the strategy comes into play!

The Set Up Sweep Players came up with a nice idea.
The idea is to create a distraction.
The distraction they use is a Substitute.

The enemy is “attacking” the Sub.(The Distraction) which gives Espadra a chance to boost with out having to worry about fainting.
Pretty sneaky idea right?

Cyclizar the Pokémon I mention above is one unique Pokémon who can pass Substitute to other Pokémon.
Espadra also has the ability to make her own Substitute as well.

Now the above idea players had was very good, but they started running into a small problem.
If you use Espadra to create a Substitute, Than the enemy attacks and destroys it in the same turn.
It defeats the purpose of the Sub.

You want the “Sub.” To stick around a few turns to by Espadra time to boost up.
This is the key element to understand.

What did players do to help by time?
This is where Grimmsnarl comes in!

Grimmsnarl has the move pool to reduce enemy Damage.
- Light Screen - For 5 Turns, All Special Atk Damage is Halved.
- Reflect - For 5 Turns, All Psychical Atk Damage is Halved.
Do you see the brilliance these Pokémon players had?

You reduce enemy Damage.
The reduction of enemy Damage helps the sub. stay alive longer.
The sub. staying alive longer helps Espadra boost up.
Espadra sweeps enemy team!

And that is all
Have Great Happy Thanksgiving
 
Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Slack Off
- Chilly Reception
- Future Sight

Tera Water Slowking is an amazing BO mon right now is probably one of the only mons that can make the playstyle viable. Tera Water lets you remove your psychic typing, allowing you to check Gholdengo, Chi Yu, Dragapult and others while pivoting around Iron Bundle (Timid Freeze Dry does 45 or so, so you can chilly water out or go hard into your scarf resist). FS + Chilly Reception gives you the Gen 8 FuturePort combo, allowing to break stall and otherwise probelmatic cores.
Great replay showing how good Slowking can be vs Chi Yu, Bundle and Gholdengo

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1719255958-gg0txzj5oi1j1edrxurnrulx86nktq5pw
 
I'm very new to the competitive scene but is it good to have a couple Pokemon with the Unaware ability in the same team or do you only need one? Also if Clodsire works well with Skeledirge then what terra do you recommend for Skeledirge?
Technically speaking, you don't need any - it all depends on what type of team you're running. Unaware pokemon are useful answers to setup sweepers, but they're not the only ones. There are ways to beat setup sweepers with things like Haze Toxapex, Clear Smog Amoonguss, or Dragon Tail Garchomp, and plenty of ways to check sweepers by revenge killing. As long as you have enough answers to setup sweepers that you can reliably beat common ones (with good play), you have enough. Often for a balance team, you only need a single good defensive anti-setup Pokemon and then checks for things that threaten it (e.g. Unaware Dondozo with things that can deal with tera-Grass Volcarona, for example). You can often see stall teams with more, but there's not just one single way to make teams. The current setup-heavy meta can make running a lot of Unaware/anti-setup pokemon quite a strong strategy, though, as your walls can often end up being worn down by repeated hits and not given a chance to heal against offense; stacking multiple together helps protect against this.

As for Skeledirge, I've seen it run tera Fairy a lot to help against strong Dark types like Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao that can threaten it, and to be neutral against other things that might threaten it.
 
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I've been running a strange Scream Tail set as wish support for Amnihilape...

Scream Tail @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 196 HP / 60 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Perish Song
- Focus Blast
- Trick

Basically you can trick something like lead garchomp, clodsire, skeledirge or corv, focus blast actually hits a good number of the current meta with all the dark and ice. Perish song beats set up unaware mons, and wish is self explanatory.
1669232579549.png
 

ausma

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Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Play Rough
- Ice Spinner

Azumarill offers a decent amount to the current metagame landscape. Water/Fairy is a massively value typing that provides a fairly decent stopgap into stuff like Chi-Yu (which is a horrifying Pokemon that I'm shocked people don't think is that good), Chien-Pao, and Choice Specs Dragapult. Furthermore, its offensive profile is fairly good right now. Azumarill in general is great at revenge killing with Aqua Jet which lets it consistently respond to the Pokemon it wants to switch into, and it can 2HKO most things with its STABs + Ice Spinner barring stuff like Dondozo and Alomomola. Tera Fairy lets it shed its Water-type and 1v1 Iron Bundle in a pinch. Obviously it gets worn down throughout the game, but because of Aqua Jet, its resistance profile, and general power, it can always extract some degree of value in the early-mid game for bulky offense structures that simultaneously provides these teams a proactive and reactive option in such a volatile metagame. Choice Band and Belly Drum are fine too but AV has felt most consistent to me.

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn

Most people have gotten really wrapped in New Toy syndrome that Choice Specs Dragapult has fallen under the radar again, and that is a massive mistake. With Spikes, Tera Ghost Shadow Ball can 2HKO almost every non-Ghost-resistant Pokemon in the metagame, and situationally resists as well with enough pressure via hazards or whatever other means. Its Speed tier is elite atm with all the Iron Bundle usage and it really excels at enabling Pokemon like Iron Valiant or Annihilape with its U-turn into exploitable targets.

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Salt Cure
- Body Press / Stealth Rock
- Iron Defense / Stealth Rock
- Recover

The Nacl is really solid, actually. Salt Cure is such a consistent residual damage option that lets it spend turns setting Stealth Rock or boosting to outlast everything, and its ability is similarly crazy at enabling it to do so free of Toxic. It's also a great user of Tera that can use the turn of a surprise type change to get the one turn needed to get healthy again or set an Iron Defense off. As a Stealth Rock setter it can 1v1 Corviknight which is kinda crazy, but you do need ID boosts and/or Tera to 1v1 the Dons. It can be a shockingly durable and potent win condition with a great natural progress-making option and useful defensive profile thanks to Purifying Salt.

Iron Treads @ Leftovers
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin / Knock Off
- Volt Switch / Knock Off

Treads provides some crazy good role compression right now with its great resistance profile, natural power/bulk, and actually great Speed tier. Really dope rn, I expect to see more of it as people continue to optimize bulky offense.

Chi-Yu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beads of Ruin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp

Chi-Yu is a genuinely crazy Pokemon that I expect people will pick up more on when/if Palafin is removed. Superb cleaner and revenge killing option, and Will-O-Wisp is a sweet option for punishing Roaring Moon/Tyranitar/Azumarill that may try to pivot in on you. Tera Dark removes its Stealth Rock weakness and makes Dark Pulse an option that can consistently smite offense. Psychic is solid too since that slaps SpDef Clodsire pretty hard, though Wisp + Spikes lets Chi-Yu 2HKO it with Tera Dark Pulse fairly well, sometimes with Tera not even being necessary. Yet to try Nasty Plot and/or Boots but on paper they also sound pretty strong.

---

Other things on my mind are Iron Thorns, Amoonguss, and Lokix. Amoonguss checks a majority of the metagame and Spore is super value into games where you're not facing a Gholdengo or opposing Amoonguss. Iron Thorns/Lokix are massively threatening; the former loves Tera a lot and thrives on turns to Dragon Dance which Tera Flying leverages pretty well, and the latter has pretty much 0 switch-ins due to Tinted Lens U-turn being so free with Tinted Lens First Impression scaring so much out. It also gets Sucker Punch, Fighting-type coverage, Leech Life, and Swords Dance, the former 3 working very solidly on offensive pivot sets. Strong priority is great rn and Lokix benefits hard from that. I've yet to optimize sets for these 3 but they're all Pokemon that I think will walk away from the hectic chaos of the current metagame with a niche.

As for things I personally want gone, Iron Bundle and Palafin are very silly to me and I'm definitely voting to get rid of them in the next voting cycle. Iron Bundle is great with a Choice item, but where it really excels is with the Taunt HDB set which is really silly and gets value in pretty much every game. It can still 2HKO most of everything especially with Stealth Rock support due to the unresisted STAB combo of Freeze-Dry + Hydro Pump, and Taunt + Flip Turn allows for it to deny recovery from the few switch-ins it might have while getting momentum and accruing chip at the same time. It's a shame because I feel Iron Bundle on paper brings something quite cool for offense, but I think it's just way too difficult to check without dedicated SpDef cores which leave you miles more vulnerable to other massive threats like Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon. Palafin has been talked to death about, but tl;dr Bulk Up set is dumb and Jet Punch is dumb. It invalidates way too much and costs too little to run to make that dynamic healthy in any way imo. The current dynamic of sack wars and BO backbones feels very dictated by these two Pokemon and finding ways to either switch into them or force them out reliably.
 
https://pokepast.es/50d9739b7ba5e346
Is there anything I should adjust or any mon I should replace? I laddered from 1400 to 1500 with this though it still has some flaws. I tried to build around sd LO Lokix. Having tflame as my defogger is inconsistent but its good with the voltturn core that it shares with washtom. The problems Ive faced so far have been Chi-Yu, Dondozo and Rest BU Annihilape (well I only lost to it once but this one seemed more bulky and I missed a hydro pump)
 
I'm very new to the competitive scene but is it good to have a couple Pokemon with the Unaware ability in the same team or do you only need one? Also if Clodsire works well with Skeledirge then what terra do you recommend for Skeledirge?
I like using Terra Fire with my Skeledirge to power up his Moves.
This is the set up I ran.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 81 HP / 175 Def / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball

Here is a nice replay I had with Skeledirge snow balling a Victory.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1719282493
 
OUTDATED - got fixed on Showdown to include direct damaging moves only.

So I looked up Rage Fist on serebii just to check this move out and according to them, the move powers up itself if it connects.
It doesn't exactly specify how much its power increases and if it is permanent like when you have been hit or just a thing for the next turn only.
I am going to assume though that this is next turn only.
Now, I have heard in the recentmost blunder video (video timestamp: watch?v=2YFKUHzeHQc?t=323) that they hit a rotom for ~40%, got burned and next turn they still did ~40% which would imply that Rage Fist powers up 2x if used consecutively.
If all of that is true, this move merits a ban or at the very least a top spot on the radar
(see Edit though).


https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/ragefist.shtml

Battle Effect:
The user converts its rage into energy to attack. The more times the user has been hit by attacks, the greater the move's power.
Secondary Effect:
Move's power raises next turn if the move is successful.

Edit: Okay, I did some testing on showdown itself. Apparently, you don't get a boost if you use Rage Fist consecutively. Now, this may be either an error in Showdowns code or in Serebii's database.
However, it seems like you get a boost to the Base Power of Rage Fist even when you are successfully hit by status inflicting moves such as Willow-Wisp.
For reference, see this replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1719345131-ctpeerr5zyu6kcs2hwesgzvvwnzcobwpw
Basically, I U-Turned on Annihilape to power up its Rage Fist to 100 BP. Rotom takes about 30% unburned.
Then, I hit Will-O-Wisp on Annihilape, which should cut its physical damage output in half, so the expected damage of burned Ragefist is 15%.
However, the real damage is ~22% which means that Will-O-Wisp counted as a hit and powered up the move's Base Power to 150.

It now only seems to be half the trouble, but considering that the Bulk Up + Rest set is very much a thing on this pokemon, this means that there is almost no way of playing around the move other than Switching in a normal type, which gets blown up by Close Combat or Drain Punch.
Everything you would normally do to limit the damage output of this pokemon is being punished by Rage Fist.
And who knows what else powers it up (I am currently testing for pain split, toxic, haze, hazards, rocky helmet/rough skin and stat lowering status moves).
 
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https://pokepast.es/50d9739b7ba5e346
Is there anything I should adjust or any mon I should replace? I laddered from 1400 to 1500 with this though it still has some flaws. I tried to build around sd LO Lokix. Having tflame as my defogger is inconsistent but its good with the voltturn core that it shares with washtom. The problems Ive faced so far have been Chi-Yu, Dondozo and Rest BU Annihilape (well I only lost to it once but this one seemed more bulky and I missed a hydro pump)
Team looks fire. Love it.
 
Actually, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think getting hit by defog may increase Rage Fist's power? I had Annihilape out against Corv and all it did was bulk up and defog, but after so many turns I tried rage fist with both of us at +6 atk/def, and it did 80%~.
I had an interesting interaction where I used Future sight and it seemed to boost rage fist on Initial turn, not the future damaging turn. Unsure if that’s just showdown implementation or how it’s actually supposed to work.
 
So I looked up Rage Fist on serebii just to check this move out and according to them, the move powers up itself if it connects.
It doesn't exactly specify how much its power increases and if it is permanent like when you have been hit or just a thing for the next turn only.
I am going to assume though that this is next turn only.
Now, I have heard in the recentmost blunder video (video timestamp: watch?v=2YFKUHzeHQc?t=323) that they hit a rotom for ~40%, got burned and next turn they still did ~40% which would imply that Rage Fist powers up 2x if used consecutively.
If all of that is true, this move merits a ban or at the very least a top spot on the radar.


https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-sv/ragefist.shtml

Battle Effect:
The user converts its rage into energy to attack. The more times the user has been hit by attacks, the greater the move's power.
Secondary Effect:
Move's power raises next turn if the move is successful.
if this is the case i'm gonna be very sad since annihilape is such a cool ass pokemon with such a unique move, I'm on major copium this isn't the case D':

anyways, thoughts on kingambit and it place in the meta? if you used him, which sets have given you the most success?
 
Hey gamers, time for another look at UNDERRATED POKEMON in S/V OU!

First off we have an absolute banger:
250px-Menu_SV_Veluza.png

Veluza @ Sitrus Berry/Life Orb/etc.
Adamant Nature
Ability: Sharpness
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fillet Away
- Aqua Cutter
- Psycho Cut
- Night Slash

I am a fillet away enjoyer. I love this silly cuda with my whole heart. Here's a few calcs to show you the power of this silly guy:

+2 252+ Atk Sharpness Veluza Aqua Cutter vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 222-262 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery easily 2HKOs defensive corv

+2 252+ Atk Sharpness Veluza Aqua Cutter vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clodsire: 314-372 (67.6 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery KOs even unaware clod with ease

Still stonewalled by defensive dondozo but he's so cool he doesn't even care

Cetitan.png

Cetitan @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Ice Spinner
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Another Pokemon that takes half of it's hp to make itself strong, this guy is SO POWERFUL! Set up snow and you get an automatic buffer for bullet punches and mach punches with the defense boost. Jolly nature slush rush outspeeds quite a bit, and it even pairs well with bundle, appreciating it taking out or forcing waters to tera. Tera electric has merit to get the coveted bolt beam coverage, and to annihilate bulky waters that think they can stomach a blow from this behemoth.

That's all for now, play snow offense please
 
As for Skeledirge, I've seen it run tera Fairy a lot to help against strong Dark types like Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao that can threaten it, and to be neutral against other things that might threaten it.
I do think that tera Fairy Skeledirge would take care of a lot of dark type Pokémon especially with the amount of new dark types in gen 9.

In closing, I will answer your last remaining questions + give your friend tips.
I think the most under rated Pokemon is Skeledirge.
Skeledirge has won me so many games.
I am a huge fan of the majority of your team!

Clodsire @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Think this is perfect as is because it will help set up opponents.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 81 HP / 175 Def / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Torch Song
- Hex

Do you think Shadow Ball and Earth Power might be better than Will-O-Wisp and Hex since Modest and Torch Song strengthen special attack?

Tinkaton (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Play Rough
- Gigaton Hammer

What made you choose Careful instead of Jolly?

Last, I really do think Chien-Pao would be a nice addition since Tinkaton and Skeledirge help protect it from it's weaknesses as well!

I like using Terra Fire with my Skeledirge to power up his Moves.
This is the set up I ran.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 81 HP / 175 Def / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Torch Song
- Shadow Ball

Here is a nice replay I had with Skeledirge snow balling a Victory.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1719282493
Did you breed to get Slack Off on your Skeledirge? I want to have Slack off on him as well but would rather have it be on my starter that I get from the beginning of the journey. Is there any way for him to get access to it without having me breed for one?
 
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