Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #390 ]

Armarouge.png
(Armarouge)
Unranked -> C or C-

I may get disregarded considering I've been lurking without an account and just made one to post, and I'm not a high-rated player. That being said, I'm giving this a shot.

Armarouge, at face value, doesn't particularly impress, and was completely overshadowed by Chi-Yu earlier on. However, even with Chi-Yu out of the meta, Armarouge faces stiff competition as an offensive Fire type from Skeledirge, Volcarona, and Iron Moth. Armarouge's somewhat good defenses are eclipsed by Skeledirge, its up-front power is beaten by Iron Moth, and its sweeping potential is beaten by Volcarona, and even its partner Ceruledge.

However, Armarouge brings two major things to the table: a powerful Fire/Psychic offensive typing and Flash Fire. Armarouge's base 125 Special Attack, somewhat good defenses, and powerful STAB Armor Cannon allow for it to seriously punish opposing players when a team is built with it in mind.

While Armarouge can be difficult to bring on the field, the rewards are great; Armarouge has an incredibly deep move pool to back up its 125 Special Attack, and its lackluster speed can be shored up by a Choice Scarf, and potential weaknesses to threats it would like to answer fixed with Terrastalization. At 409 Speed, with STAB Armor Cannons and Psychics or Psyshocks, and coverage including Energy Ball, Flash Cannon, Aura Sphere or Focus Blast, and many other strong moves, Armarouge can become very difficult to switch into, particularly with Tera Grass or Steel. Many teammates also appreciate its presence, as its Flash Fire eats up the Torch Songs, Flamethrowers, and Will-o-wisps teammates such as Corviknight, Iron Treads, and Scizor want nothing to do with, and those teammate's access to VoltTurn helps actually bring it onto the field to begin doing its damage. Corviknight in particular removes the hazards Armarouge dislikes, U-Turns for him, and chips threatening physical attackers with Rocky Helmet, while Armarouge answers the Gholdengo and Fire-Type moves Corviknight hates. Its relatively solid 80/100/80 defenses combined with its offensive pressure allow it to compress the some of the defensive duties of Skeledirge with the immediate threat of Iron Moth, while actually having a stronger STAB fire attack, as illustrated below.

252 SpA Iron Moth Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 338-402 (78.2 - 93%)
252 SpA Armarouge Armor Cannon vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 416-492 (96.2 - 113.8%)


Picking between Tera Grass and Steel depends on the team you build. Tera Steel allows him to very convincingly check Iron Moth, Tera Fairy Skeledirge, and Chien-Pao, while better handling Tera Fairy Espathra, Volcarona, and Hatterene, while making him immune to Toxic and Sandstorm, while Tera Grass improves his Ground and Water weaknesses, alongside making Garganacl, Rotom-W, Dondozo, and Dragonite easier to handle. I personally prefer Tera Grass for Garganacl.

So Armor Cannon is Strong, but what can Armarogue come in on?
Besides the aformentioned Amoonguss and Gholdengo , here is a list of targets Armarouge hits hard, and can use a VoltTurn to come in on:
Kingambit (OHKO, lives Sucker Punch with no fainted allies, otherwise has to Tera to live)
Hatterene (2HKO after leftovers and Draining Kiss recovery)
Chien-Pao (OHKO, Outspeeds but must Tera to live Sucker Punch consistently)
Iron Moth (OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes)
Breloom (OHKO)
Corviknight (OHKO)
Scizor (OHKO)
Meowscarada (OHKO on non-Scarf, watch out for Sucker Punch and Scarf Knock Off)

Conditional (Needs scouting or team support, or requires the right set)
Clodsire (2HKO after Chip)
Garganacl (2HKO with Tera Grass Energy Ball, 57% chance to 2HKO with Tera Steel Flash Cannon)
Iron Valiant (OHKO, Outspeeds without Booster Energy/Scarf)
Iron Hands (OHKO after 2 layers of spikes or 15% of chip)
Glimmora (Needs a teammate to break Sash, OHKOs)
Volcarona (2HKO without Quiver Dance or with Flash Fire, Lives +1 Bug Buzz)
Skeledirge (Tera vs. Tera, Tera Steel 2HKOs Tera Fairy, Tera Grass 2HKOs Tera Water)
Dragonite (After a Normal Tera and Dragon Dance, still outspeeds Adamant Dragonite and hits for about 60% without Multiscale, Tera Grass makes the Earthquake weakness easier to handle. Without a Tera Dragon Pulse hits hardest. Always Lives +1 ES)

These are just the most notable targets.

Sample Set
Armarouge @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
IVs: 0 ATK
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 Def/ 244 Spe
Timid Nature
Tera: Steel/Grass
-Armor Cannon
-Psychic / Psyshock
-Dragon Pulse
-Flash Cannon / Energy Ball
Other Notable Moves: Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball
Aura Sphere can be taken over Dragon Pulse to help win in the Ditto 1v1, while better handling Tera Dark Chien-Pao and Tyrannitar.

Armarogue has clear weaknesses. It is weak to Rain, Dragapult, Sucker Punch, and Stealth Rock, but it has clear benefits when you build your team with it in mind. Its ability to clean up softened targets, check some important meta threats, provide some defensive duties, and punch holes for its teammates is valuable, if in a niche context, which is why I am nominating it for C to C-. It is generally outclassed by some other fire types, but its use cases are significant enough I think it warrants a ranking. Some key teammates to keep in mind are Corviknight, who it has excellent synergy with (Kind of reminds me of Toxapex and Reuniclus), Iron Treads, who similarly has a fire weakness and removes hazards while Volt Switching for it, Rotom-Wash, who can help greatly against the water threats Armarouge can struggle with, Scizor, who applies offensive pressure while U-Turning for it and can clean up or soften targets, and Garganacl, who can help with many other threats Armarouge struggles with, while nicely taking Dragapult's Shadow Balls. I personally think he is best on high-longevity balance teams who can wear targets down into his range and cover his weaknesses, or offense teams that can make more use of his ability to handle key threats. He definitely is very demanding on teambuilding, needing teammates to bring him in off of VoltTurns, hazard removal, and takes up a main Tera slot, but he provides useful traits for it.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1770377640-fsr0cybvvjr85v2wfbi6fxxl2yyysoepw (This one shows how he can be used on a balance team. Note that while Meowscarada is threatening, once it is choice locked, it is constantly forced to switch and Arma can pick up some kills that open the game up)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1770208471 (This one shows how important team support is but how useful he can be with it. Admittedly my opponent made some questionable decisions this game such as keeping Baxcalibur in.)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1770216924 (This one shows how even in a bad overall matchup, he can still do a lot of work punching holes for the rest of the team. Admittedly Focus Punch on Iron Hands is questionable at best.)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1770179259 (I debated on if I should put this one here, but I thought it nicely demonstrated what a good matchup looked like, and how I could win with him despite my own poor play at points)
dunno if this makes my claims more legit but I'm approaching 1600 after posting this, highest I've ever been!
 
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:skeledirge: | A- --> A/A+

TLDR:
skeledirge entered SV with a uniquely strong kit and has only gotten better as the tier's developed. the tera suspect result was music to his ears - who would've guessed, when you take excellent bulk, unaware, a snowballing signature move, consistent recovery, and maximize those strengths by changing into the type of your choice, you get a very good mon. the recent bans of chi-yu and ape only opened him up more.

breaking dirge's traits down explains why I think it's one of the premier mons in the tier:
  • typing - fire/ghost doesn't sound amazing defensively on paper, but it's perfectly suited to check many often-spammed offensive moves. moonblast, cc, flamethrower, sludge bomb/wave, icicle crash/spinner, and espeed immediately come to mind. looking at who clicks those moves, you shut down valiant, iron moth, volc, slither wing, dnite, iron hands, scizor, and more. for proof of fire/ghost’s offensive profile, see blacephalon.
  • bulk - 104/100/75 is damn bulky factoring in unaware, wisp, and slack off. OHKO's are very rare, meaning you always have an opportunity to progress the game.
  • unaware + torch song - ignoring opponents' stat raises is great. ignoring opponents' stat raises while boosting yourself is amazing. anything setting up prematurely invites in dirge to shut it down and start snowballing in the other direction.
  • tera - the running joke that dirge and garg are the best new fairy types is funny because it's true. monotypes like fairy, water, poison, or dragon are very strong defensively, and each one allows you to counter certain threats of your choosing.
bearing this in mind, dirge can matchup fish for every strong mon in the tier, checking and/or setting up on things that would normally threaten it. a few examples of shutting down OU's premier offensive mons:
  • gholdengo - turn into anything not ghost on shadow ball and 2HKO back.
  • pult - same thing.
  • tusk - wisp it on the switch or tera + wisp. you beat it 1v1 forever once it's burned, even without tera if you're physdef.
  • chien-pao - come in on ice move and click torch. you can tera if it's not locked and eat crunch.
  • dnite - if you don't tera, eq does... a moderate amount? you can eat one, wisp, and heal up if you have the health. you wall everything else.
  • espathra - even after 2-3 calm minds, you still eat stored power. you'll probably take a lot, but you should win the 1v1.
  • valiant - you eat this for breakfast. sball/knock does a decent amount, but torch does more.
  • moth - same as valiant; you eat anything it would go for.
252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 169-199 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Tera Fairy Skeledirge Torch Song vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 204-240 (64.7 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tera Fairy Skeledirge Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 236-278 (74.4 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk burned Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 248 HP / 128 Def Skeledirge: 174-205 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 87-103 (21.1 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Skeledirge: 165-195 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skeledirge: 178-210 (43.3 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
+3 0 SpA Espathra Stored Power (200 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Skeledirge: 274-324 (66.6 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and for defensive mons? you can easily tweak your set and take advantage of them. you can run covert cloak if you hate garganacl in particular, or - in my opinion, the stronger option - substitute. sub takes advantage of would-be counters like garg, pex, clodsire, or amoongus, allowing you to force progress by snowballing torch song boosts - most defensive mons have a hard time breaking your sub, especially after tera'ing into the type of your choice.

0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Skeledirge: 86-104 (20.9 - 25.3%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Toxapex Chilling Water vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skeledirge: 84-102 (20.4 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 Atk Clodsire Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Water Skeledirge: 85-102 (20.6 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 Atk Dondozo Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 93-109 (22.6 - 26.5%) -- 19.4% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 90-106 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- 2.1% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Skeledirge: 90-106 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- 2.1% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tera Dragon Skeledirge: 78-93 (18.9 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Torkoal Lava Plume vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skeledirge in Sun: 72-86 (17.5 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO

dirge has cemented its spot as one of the tier's best tanks, period. it's already been recognized for its role as an unaware wall, but I feel that offensive sets can be even more dominant. the hard stop to setup sweepers, the ease of snowballing momentum back your way, and the ability to flip your type weaknesses on its head makes dirge a very scary threat if unprepared.

more TLDR: relevant 1600ish replays of dirge shutting things down, taking advantage of high-tier mons, or simply refusing to die:
I think Dirge warrants a rise to A. The recent bans has been nothing but favorable for Dirge. A+ though is too much of a rise for its problems. While it does check the likes of Valiant, Loom, and Scizor, it can’t be a full on counter to them since they carry coverage (Sball, Knock, Bulldoze, Thief, etc), so you can’t use it as the sole check to these threats. Dirge also has a heavy reliance on Boots due to its rock weakness, meaning it will click Slack Off alot just to keep healthy. Though you could also run lefties and Tera early in a game.

That being said, it shuts down mons that balance have unfavorable mus against like CM Hatt, SD Hands, Loom, etc, the list of mons grows with Tera Fairy or Water. Tera Water is a nice midground for Ghold. With some recent experimentation with EP for Garg and Chi-Yu being gone, I have no problem with this nom.
 
I think Dirge warrants a rise to A. The recent bans has been nothing but favorable for Dirge. A+ though is too much of a rise for its problems. While it does check the likes of Valiant, Loom, and Scizor, it can’t be a full on counter to them since they carry coverage (Sball, Knock, Bulldoze, Thief, etc), so you can’t use it as the sole check to these threats.
yeah, great points. I won't die on the A+ hill, but I will offer that unorthodox/unexplored tera types let you midground and ultimately beat even more would-be threats. of course, that's contingent on using your tera, but if you plan around it, you can choose what else to beat.

I've had success with:
  1. fairy - checks pult, bax, chien, chomp, tusk, moon, quaq. loses to gholden, but you were already.
  2. water - checks gholden, azu, chien, quaq, other dirge. washtom is annoying but otherwise it's solid.
  3. normal - checks pult, gholden, other dirge. decent midground against everything, and no one is clicking CC on pre-tera dirge.
  4. poison - functions most similarly to pre-tera dirge, while being immune to toxic. better if you're running wisp/yawn/encore over sub.
  5. dragon - counters washtom alongside being a great midground against 90% of the meta. no one is clicking fairy or ice moves against pre-tera.
and those are on top of checking valiant, moth, scizor, volc, dnite, cinderace, etc. before tera. all in all, dirge is a great mon and a prime example of how creative you can be with tera types.

not arguing with your thoughts at all, just offering in case it helps dirge's case.
 
Since most people are talking rises I guess I'll mention some things I think could drop.

:Torkoal: Torkoal doesn't really fit as high as B+ imo with Chi-Yu gone and great Tusk on so many opposing teams, not to mention rain peeking back in again and hazards hitting him so hard. I think a drop is due.
:Ting-Lu: He's still good but I think Ting Lu gets pressured too much by strong u-turners like cinderace right now and even gholdengo can nasty plot on the switch or trick to cripple it. The whirlwind check is extremely obvious and easy to play around with taunt or simply attacking and he doesn't have the recovery to keep up. A rank seems more fitting.
:Iron Treads: This guy repeatedly fails to do much unless it's on electric terrain teams from my experience. It has all the tools in theory but great Tusk has really just made its life hard, and it's main niche of outspeeding chiyu isn't relevant anymore.
 
A couple noms:
Up
:skeledirge: A- -> A I'm reiterating alot of the points made in previous posts, but I think skeledirge is a great defensive mon that can both dish out and take damage. Tera and wisp make it able to play around its checks, I've been able to use Tera fairy and wisp to shut down certain roaring moon and kingambit variants. Physical attackers just don't want to switch into this thing.

:quaquaval: B+ -> A- Another really good starter, quaquaval's access to moxie, as well a a signature move that boosts its speed can allow it to snowball and sweep. SD can help it break through bulkier mons without a moxie boost, ice spinner can hit grass checks like Amoongus, and aqua jet is good for picking off weaker mons before a speed boost.

Down
:espathra: A+ -> A- Espathra was arguably the biggest loser of the Cyclizar ban. The meta seems to be shifting away from Shed Tail, and without it, espathra's frail defenses make it more difficult to pull off the insane stored power sweeps that it used to. Without a sub it is also alot more vulnerable to priority.

:corviknight: A -> A- corviknight is still a good switch in for a variety of offensive mons, but it is outclassed as both a wall and as hazard control. Corv gets bitched by gholdengo, dragonite can dance in it's face and kill it with fire punch, and it usually has to rely on brave bird to threaten the things it switches into. Great Tusk and Iron Treads are both much better for hazard removal because they can force gholdengo out.
 
as the next vr update grows closer I have increasingly more disagreements with the current vr, as such, I've compiled it all into a personal vr with explanations for the pokemon I would "nom" to a different spot

S
:gholdengo:
:great tusk: this mon is extremely splashable and consistently phenomenal, a good part of the meta revolves around tusk and gholdengo interactions and how that dictates that hazard flow of the match, tusk compresses many important roles on a team allowing for more freedom in teambuilding, a clear top 2 and on the same level as gholdengo in my eyes.

S-
:chien-pao: as chi-yu leaves, chien-pao enters to fill its place, by far the biggest offensive threat in the tier and one every team needs a consistant gameplan for, moreover, it compresses a breaker and a form of speed control into a single slot as well as providing a ghost resist meaning that its also very easy to fit on teams, it's not as splashable as tusk or gholden, hence s-, but it's still an incredibly strong pokemon.

A+
:dragapult: while still very potent especially with tera, I think pult isn't quite as valuable as it once was, with cyclizar gone the power of infiltrator has diminished and the main thing that its usefull to outspeed can be packing super effective stab priority that keeps it from working as well as it wants to, its still very strong, and one of the best mons in A+, but I don't think its quite up to s- anymore
:dragonite:
:espathra:
:garganacl: not much of a surprise here, garg is an incredibly consistent rocker as well as a defensive behemoth, both iron defense and stealth rock sets are incredibly strong and it has great splashability, even with covert cloak in the picture, garg manages to stand strong as one of the most prevalent mons in the meta
:hatterene: this mon is incredible and A- does it dirty, being a magic bouncer alone would give it a niche, but the fact that it's a fairly dangerous offensive and defensive threat in its own right makes it that much better, incredibly splashable, versatile, fills an irreplaceable role on most teams, one of the best mons in the meta imo and worthy of A+
:iron valiant:
:kingambit:
:ting-lu:

A
:cinderace: an incredibly potent offensive pivot, court change provides incredible hazard utility while u-turn and pyro ball keeps up offensive pressure, it's 4th move is open letting it be an incredibly versatile threat and what it fills a very hard to fill role in the current meta, great mon and worthy of A
:corviknight:
:dondozo:
:roaring moon: I think this mon has fallen off a bit, its dd sets are nowhere near as consistent as they once were and the banded sets are starting to be the same, its niche of checking chi-yu is ever so slightly less valuable given chi-yu is no longer in the tier, its still a decent pivot but I think it's been harder to fit it on teams as of late
:rotom-wash: I talked about this earlier in the thread so I'll keep this brief, rotom provides great utility and has only gotten better now that cinder is present and bulky waters are becoming more common, it's consistently a thorn in the opponent's side and is an electric in a tier that lacks them
:skeledirge: chi-yu ban made this a lot better, I think this one doesn't need much explaining

A-
:clodsire:
:garchomp:
:glimmora:
:grimmsnarl: both of these 2 fall into the same catagory of pure HO becoming a fair bit worse, cinderace completely ruins glimmora's gameplan while grimmsnarl hates the lack of cyclizar, still viable, not nearly as good as they were
:iron moth:
:iron treads: it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify this mon over tusk, with its speed becoming less valuable and tusk's dark resist becoming increasingly more valuable I find that it struggles to keep up in this meta
:scizor: chien pao being much better means that a mon that revenges it reliably becomes better, not much to be said here, its good.
:toxapex: this mon was slept on early on but I think that its starting to come into its own, a highly persistent check to many dangerous threats that spreads toxic with ease and abuses the more defensive meta to get more chances to stay healthy, its still let down by its passivity but it's no longer automatic setup fodder like it once was.
:volcarona:

I have a lot less to say about the lower ranks so I'll end this here, thank you for reading!
 
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Ok my next nomination might take a little more convincing than Dragalge but here goes:

1674097556078.png

UR to C

Vaporeon @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Copycat
- Wish
- Protect
- Chilling Water / Surf

Yes I'm a lover of Covert Cloak, but this single set has changed my mind about Vaporeon being strictly outclassed by other water mons.

With Covert Cloak and Copycat, Vaporeon is a great answer into Garganacl, being faster and able to use Salt Cure and Recover after they use it, and with 32PP, it will force Garganacl to switch out or get PP stalled. Tera Ghost is if you see it start Iron Defense for Body Press, though you can also simply Copycat it and boost with it. Speed EVs is to outspeed Corviknight to Copycat Roost in its face. Wish Protect for healing and team support, and Chilling Water for better matchups into physical mons like Great Tusk, while Surf is for a little more oomph. If it got Whirlpool it would be even better, but we'll have to wait for the Home update to see if we get that back.

Originally I thought it would be outclassed as a bulky water Wish passer by Alomomola, but Copycat + Water Absorb gives it decent match ups in this meta, such as hard stopping most rain teams that lack Golduck, actually beating most variants of Garganacl, and having enough bulk to 1v1 Great Tusk.

0 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 135-159 (29.3 - 34.5%) -- 4.7% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Chilling Water vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 194-230 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Vaporeon Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 348-410 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 236 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 291-343 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Chilling Water vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 290-344 (78.1 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Surf vs. -1 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 522-614 (140.7 - 165.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It won't fit on all teams. It won't fit on many teams. But Vaporeon has just enough tools to warrant a spot on a team that wants Wish support and an answer to Rain and Garganacl. Those 2 being pretty strong in the current meta makes Vaporeon worth a nomination over some worthless mons in D. Copycat comes in clutch in so many strange scenarios that it can turn the tide and make the opponent think twice before using moves, like revenge killing Dragapult or Gholdengo by Copycat Draco Meteor or Shadow Ball.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1775651730-8xx35ngeoypn1h08pn2cb8l8sj1u5yhpw Vaporeon tanks Gholdengo MIR and revenge kills. Also Copycats Rotom-W Volt-Switch to regain momentum and threaten Hatterene.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1775645051 Vaporeon hard walls Floatzel sweep, letting me play quite a bit looser with Iron Hands and securing a ton of KOs. Wish pass also used to get Toedscruel in safely to Rapid Spin. The weird Copycat on Spore was simply that I wanted to absorb sleep with Vaporeon and had the smallest possibility of Copycat Spore on the switch, but in hindsight I should've just used Chilling Water.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1775722859 Yes I lost this one because I threw away Iron Moth like an idiot but it shows that Vaporeon can 1v1 E-Killer Dragonite without much issue.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1775786546-styhv6qr3f2548zu13kkg24cmej2x1mpw 1v1 Orthworm (if it Shed Tail I could Copycat it) and hard walled Dragonite again. Why don't people just accept they won't beat Vaporeon and switch out of Dragonite smh
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1775830170 Tanks MIR and kills Meowscarada with Copycat MIR on the switch. Could have 1v1'd DD Dragapult if I didn't have -1 from MIR but Fairy Garganacl always pulls through.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1775863180-34yh5kt5t5q8oww7x3pv6og9oewxmgypw More of the same. Completely stuffs his entire team other than Kilowattrel, 1v1s Dragonite until its forced out, threatens Iron Treads, and scouts Kilowattrel's Choice move for an informed switch. Was considering Copycat Toxic back on Quagsire but knew I didn't need to with Garganacl still alive, but was interesting I had that option.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1776705499 Walled and stalled Dragonite and Kingambit, Protect scouted against Iron Valiant. Didn't need to sack it but it was a roll so I gambled.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1777277764 Really poor matchup for Vaporeon but still found use by stalling and killing Skeledirge, and Copycat U-Turn on Corviknight scouting the Rocky Helmet and getting momentum. If Azumarill was Choice locked into a Water move when scouting with Garganacl I could heal up and Wish pivot on the switch too.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1777384308 Wish healed Iron Hands, who was my best answer into most of their team and ended up getting 3 KOs total with the extra health. Also brought Dragonite Atk down enough where I wasn't risking him OHKOing my own Dragonite through Multiscale with Ice Spinner. Covert Cloak Toxapex caught me off guard but the Wish on Iron Hands saved the game.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1777774365 Finally an example of Covert Cloak Copycat against Garganacl. Vaporeon basically walled 4 of their mons and this match was never in jeopardy. Chilling Water covered Dragonite and Quaquaval, and Garganacl had no chance as long as Vaporeon was alive.

Honestly Copycat Vaporeon + Fairy Garganacl put in SO much work together, I highly recommend trying out that defensive core.

Also no one bring up the meme.
EDIT also credit to this post, I solidly approve Toedscruel UR to B-. The listed set has worked well enough for me to recommend it.
 
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Here´s a list of Pokémon whose viability I find to be inaccurate in the current Official Viability Rankings:

(From Highest Ranked to Lowest Ranked)

1-Roaring Moon

I believe Roaring Moon´s viability fell drastically after the Chi-Yu, Cyclizar and Annihilape bans for three main reasons

-It no longer acts as an offensive check to Chi-yu after it got banned.

-Sun, the playstyle where Roaring Moon was the most common, was severely affected by the Chi-Yu ban, something all Protosynthesis Pokémon hated, including Roaring Moon.

-The rise of CB Chien-Pao as a Dark Type wallbreaker, outclassing Roaring Moon, as it has more Power and Speed and a better secondary STAB for Iron Valiant and Ting-Lu.

If I had to guess how viable Roaring Moon is right now, I would say it deserves to drop to B+.

2-Garganacl

I believe Garganacl became more viable for 3 main reasons.

-Cyclizar´s ban meant teams could no longer pass substitutes to Pokémon whose sub would not be broken by salt cure which in the past made Garganacl passive and exploitable.

-The Chi-yu, Annihilape and Cyclizar bans made the metagame more defensive, something Garganacl enjoyed due to being able to sit on passive Pokémon and generate instant value with salt cure, while being able to act as a mixed wall that can take on Pokémon on the rise that the now banned pokémon oppressed . (Skeledirge for example).

-Although Usage Statistics have not been updated yet and usage does not always correspond to viability, it is safe to say that the new metagame gave Garganacl space to fit on many new team structures for being one of the best defensive Tera abusers as it can change match-ups completely by walling at least one or two new pokémon on the oppositing team it couldnt wall withouth Tera.

If I were to rank Garganacl´s viability currently, I would claim it is an S tier Pokémon due to Salt Cure´s consistency in apllying offensive Pressure, only failing against rare Covert Cloak Pokémon and for it´s reliability as a Wall and Tera abuser. Very rarely do you play a game where you regret having spent Tera on Garganacl too early, it´s just that solid.

3-Grimmsnarl

This one is very straightforward, there is one main reason why Grimmsnarl´s viability fell, but it´s more than enough for it´s drastic decrease in viability.

-With Cyclizar´s ban, the Shed Tail + Screens Hyper-Offense playstyle pretty much died out as Orthworm isn´t comparable to Cyclizar. As so, Grimmsnarl can still be used on Screens teams, but withouth the support of shed tail, these aren´t close to being as good as they once were.

If I were to rank Grimmsnarl´s Viability I would say it deserves the B- Rank (Tragic).

4-Scizor

I believe there is one main reason for Scizor to be less viable in the post-bans metagame.

-With the post-bans metagame becoming more defensive, the demand for priority moves in the teambuilder, including Scizor´s Bullet Punch decreased. This safety net role against sweepers has also been replaced by Unaware Pokémon. Currently the only dominant Sweepers in SV OU that Scizor keeps in check are non fire punch Dragonite and Espathra.

If I were to rank Scizor I would say that currently it is a D rank Pokémon.

5-Ditto

There is one main reason for Ditto to be less viable in the post-bans metagame.

-With the post-bans metagame becoming more defensive, the demand for a consistent revenge killer fell, and as so did Ditto's niche.

I believe Ditto deserves the D Rank.

6-Tyranitar

There are 2 main reasons Why I believe Tyranitar's viability fell.

-Chi-yu's ban killed tyranitar's niche as a specially defensive Wall in OU.

-Pokémon whose typing naturally matches up well against Tyranitar like Great Tusk and Ting-Lu became more common, making offensive Tyranitar sets even harder to justify.

In my opinion Tyranitar deserves the D rank.

7-Gyarados

This one is just outrageous to me.

I actually do not believe Gyarados's viability fell because I don't believe it was ever viable to begin with. I have never seen a gyarados in OU since day 1, and I don't expect to in the future. I may have an issue with my own ignorance over what exactly gyarados does in this metagame sheerly because I don't see it, but for me, the fact that I never saw this pokemon in OU throughouth the entire generation and the fact that it does not seem to have a theoretical niche as a moxie sweeper or intimidate user makes me believe it deserves to be untiered.

8- Orthworm

There are 2 main reasons why I believe Orthworm's viability rose in the post-bans metagame.

-Cyclizar's ban meant Orthworm is the only Pokémon in OU with access to Shed Tail which led to the creation of new structures of Hyper-Offense where it has proven to fit quite well as a replacement for Cyclizar.

-With the post-bans metagame becoming more defensive, Orthworm gets many more opportunities to shed tail out, as it can do it freely in front of Clodsire, Garganacl, Iron Treads amd other passive Pokémon.

In my opinion this pokémon deserves the B rank.

9-Tauros-Paldea-Fire

There is one main reason why I believe Tauros-Paldea-Fire's viability rose.

-Tauros-Paldea-Fire matches up well against the 2 best offensive Dark types in the tier, Chien Pao and Kingambit, whose usage rose after Chi-yu's ban. Although Tauros competes for the role of answering both Kingambit and Chien-Pao on the same slot with defensive Quaquaval, I find will-o-wisp's utility to make it far better even tho it has to rely on rest to heal on stall teams or run a coverage 4th move on more offensive teams.

I believe this pokemon deserves to be raised to B rank in terms of viability alongside Orthworm.

10- Alomomola

This one may seem a little Stall biased as it is the playstyle where alomomola shines brightest, but there is one reason why I think Alomomola became more viable in the metagame.

-I believe that Alomomola can compete with Amoonguss and Toxapex on Balance teams for Regenerator Pokémon due to wish's value. Wish allows alomomola to heal many of the bulky pokemon withouth recovery introduced in this generation such as Great Tusk and Ting-Lu which it naturally synergyses with in terms of typing, opening up many teambuilding possibilities that are quite good at outlasting other teams.

I believe Alomomola deserves the B Rank.

11- Ceruledge

Last but not least we have one of the coolest Pokémon fron Gen9.

I believe Ceruledge was and is clearly superior to most of the other Pokemon in C rank.

The Chi-Yu, Annihilape and Cyclizar bans were a mixed bag for Ceruledge.

On one side Ceruledge enjoys Chi-Yu being banned from OU, on the other side, it hates the fact that Garganacl dominates the meta.

I don't believe this pokemon became better than what it was in the past, I just believe that it was wrongly labeled as a C rank Pokémon from the beginning and that it's offensive qualities and sweep potential with Tera Bug bulk up sets can simply not be compared in termd of consistency to the most viable sets of all other C rank Pokémon except for Alomomola.

I believe Ceruledge deserves the B- Rank.

If you read all of this, thank you for your attention!
 
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I actually feel scizor benefitted from the bans as it benefits from ChiYu and Apes ban, both mons that could easily exploit and kill scizor and its teammates. Even the cyclizar ban benefits it as scizor might have had a hard time breaking some subs depending on what came in.

If anything due to the increasing presence of ChienPao and Meowscarasa scizor feels a lot more viable than before as it can easily check or even counter them both.

It does feel like an A tier pokemon now.
 
Pokémon that are more viable than what’s implied:

:meowscarada:

Meowscarada - its speed tier is good, and boosted knock offs are very good at progressing matchups, especially on hazards stacking teams or garganacl teams.

Makes progress reliably, and thrives in the slightly more passive meta, as it allows band to outclass the scarf set.

Scarf was once essential when all the 135 speed Pokémon were running around, now the only 135 speed Pokémon left has ice shard anyway.

banded flower trick can end games reliably, especially as the metagame has slowed down in average speed since the recent bans.

:hatterene:

Hatterene: nuzzle spam is very potent, stored power is good to break through most stalls / espathra. Loves the fact that there are so many offensive threats that are innately weak to fairy.

Makes a good gholdengo bait with Tera water . Spreads paralysis and/or ends a game when the opening is there

:skeledirge:

Skeledirg: has an excellent matchup verse so many Pokémon, is difficult to bring down. Can efficiently use moves like substitute vs slower teams. Hits very hard very quickly, and overall can disrupt teams once it comes in

:Volcarona:

diverse options to overcome your teams biggest threats. No heatran is a big deal. The will o wisp set is great against offensive teams, easily allowing you to achieve multiple boosts if it isn’t scouted correctly.

the Tera grass set remains good as always.

options for other tera types allow it to muscle through entire teams that would have otherwise checked it.
 
With new meta kinda settled I do feel the greatest benefiters of the bans have been ChienPao and Meowscarada (Banded set are becoming incresinglt popular). Another noticeable change is that a lot of people seems to be running sucker punch CB cinderace now to KO dragapult...

Imo :Chien-Pao: now deserves the S- tier, i think its been explained plenty of times why.

:Meowscarada: is definitely A+, she just breaks just and is extremly annoying and good thanks to knock off, sucker and flower trick, also can trick heavily crippling set up/defensive mons.

:Scizor: is A or A- as it consistently checks the above, hits hard and maintains tempo with U-Turn.

:Tyranitar: should be D tier or UR at this point.
 
I can see where you are coming from but there are better ways of revenge Killing Chien Pao, ways that dont rely on hazards to be consistently off the field, since Scizor likes rrunning Choice Band and cant OHKO Tera Dark Chien-Pao withouth the boost of a Choice Band. 90% of the times I use Scizor it ends up doing nothing and acting as deadweight. I only tested it on 2 teams but still, I played so many games it was more than enough for me to feel that way about it.
 
yeah, great points. I won't die on the A+ hill, but I will offer that unorthodox/unexplored tera types let you midground and ultimately beat even more would-be threats. of course, that's contingent on using your tera, but if you plan around it, you can choose what else to beat.

I've had success with:
  1. fairy - checks pult, bax, chien, chomp, tusk, moon, quaq. loses to gholden, but you were already.
  2. water - checks gholden, azu, chien, quaq, other dirge. washtom is annoying but otherwise it's solid.
  3. normal - checks pult, gholden, other dirge. decent midground against everything, and no one is clicking CC on pre-tera dirge.
  4. poison - functions most similarly to pre-tera dirge, while being immune to toxic. better if you're running wisp/yawn/encore over sub.
  5. dragon - counters washtom alongside being a great midground against 90% of the meta. no one is clicking fairy or ice moves against pre-tera.
and those are on top of checking valiant, moth, scizor, volc, dnite, cinderace, etc. before tera. all in all, dirge is a great mon and a prime example of how creative you can be with tera types.

not arguing with your thoughts at all, just offering in case it helps dirge's case.
Dont forget for tera water Mowtom
 
Ok, I Am Not A Player That Ladders Very High, If At All, But I Will Make My Nomination
Armarouge: Unranked -> Any Of The C Ranks Really
Let's Talk About The Negatives First;
A Lackluster Speed Of 75, Stealth Rock Weakness, And Vulnerable To Revenge Killers Like Scarf Gholdengo And Scarf Chien-Pao, Limited Sweeping Potential, And Lacks Instant Nuclear Power In Nasty Plot, Which Ceruledge Has The Physical Version Of, Swords Dance, And Inability To Switch Into A Lot Of Popular Pokemon. And That Are All The Downsides I See For It As Of Now.

Now, Let's Look At The Upsides;
First Thing You Notice Are Its Defensive Stats, As 85/100/80 isn't anything to do a double take at, But it's typing is what I think Does The Bulky Part For It. Fire Psychic Is Great Defensively, And It's Ability Flash Fire Gives It A Nice Immunity To Bolster It's Bulk. Next Is It's Deep As The Marianis Trench Coverage Movepool. Energy Ball, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon And Dragon Pulse? This Is Any Special Attacking Fire Types Dream Coverage Moves. But That's It's Special Moves Only. In Status Moves, It Has Calm Mind, Will-O-Wisp, Trick Room, Taunt, Destiny Bond, And Dual Screens! But Wait, What OU Pokemon Can Switch Into It's STABS Safely? Roaring Moon, And That's It. Now, I Will Acknowledge It's Downsides, Being Slow And Stealth Rock Weak In A Hazard And Speed Focused Metagame is Not Great, But Look At Garganacl, A Bulky Slow ROCK Type, And Armarouge Could Be Quite Decent With Proper Support.

Here Are Some Sample Sets;
Support (Armarouge) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Calm Mind
- Armor Cannon

Cheesy BS (Armarouge) (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Weak Armor
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Armor Cannon
- Expanding Force
- Energy Ball
Here Are Revenge Killers For It;
Scarf Gholdengo, Chien-Pao, Ceruledge, Meowscarada, Roaring Moon, Quaquaval, and Great Tusk

Here Are Things That Give Him Headaches Without The Tools Needed To Defeat Them;
Clodsire, Who Is Answered By Psyshock, Dondozo, Rotom-Wash, And Garganacl, Who Are Answered By Energy Ball And Aura Sphere, Ting-Lu Is Answered By Both Energy Ball And Aura Sphere, And Roaring Moon By Dragon Pulse Or Aura Sphere

Here Are Tera Types I Think Would Be Useful For It, And The Benefits That Come With;
Grass: Ground And Water Resist, Powder Move Immunity, And STAB Energy Ball
Steel: Stealth Rock Resist, Immunity To Being Toxic'd And Poison Type Moves, STAB Flash Cannon
Fire: Nuclear Bomb Of An Armor Cannon
Psychic: Double STAB Psyshock/Expanding Force, Removing Fire's Weaknesses
Water: Being Able To Act As A Semi-Bulky Water, Ala Offensive Suicune
Ghost: Fighting Immunity And STAB Shadow Ball
Dark: Psychic Immunity, A Ghost And Dark Resist, And STAB Dark Pulse
Fighting: Dark Resist, Stealth Rock Resist, STAB Aura Sphere And Focus Blast Miss
Dragon: Elemental Type Resist And STAB Dragon Pulse

Remember, this is the opinion of a lower ladder player, so this is from a different persepective than a lot of people. I will update this soon, but I Am wiped out from writing that, so peace fam.
you need replays in order to nominate an unranked pokemon. i'd suggest editing this with said replays of armarouge performing the tasks you claim it is capable of doing
 
Meowscarada

B rank -> B+ or higher

The cat loves the lack of Cyclizar and Chi Yu in the meta. With those two gone, Meowscarada can now run Band or utility sets more effectively. Flower Trick spam legit puts a ton of pressure on weakened teams with Meowscarada’s insane speed stat. The only two things in the tier rn that our speed it unboosted are Dragapult and Chien Pao, and Pult has to be fearful of a Sucker Punch. It also puts out work early game as well. It is a great spikes setter due to its speed and taunt, it’s got u turn to be a solid offensive pivot, and it breaks things pretty easily with its stabs. Knock Off alone offers so much utility. It’s just a super solid mon on offense right now, and I think it should be at least a little bit higher.

Echoing as well rises for Skeledirge and Iron Hands, as well as Cinderace being somewhere around A rank.
 
Meowscarada

B rank -> B+ or higher

The cat loves the lack of Cyclizar and Chi Yu in the meta. With those two gone, Meowscarada can now run Band or utility sets more effectively. Flower Trick spam legit puts a ton of pressure on weakened teams with Meowscarada’s insane speed stat. The only two things in the tier rn that our speed it unboosted are Dragapult and Chien Pao, and Pult has to be fearful of a Sucker Punch. It also puts out work early game as well. It is a great spikes setter due to its speed and taunt, it’s got u turn to be a solid offensive pivot, and it breaks things pretty easily with its stabs. Knock Off alone offers so much utility. It’s just a super solid mon on offense right now, and I think it should be at least a little bit higher.

Echoing as well rises for Skeledirge and Iron Hands, as well as Cinderace being somewhere around A rank.
Seconding this nom, and any other Meowscarada nomination that have been posted. Felt underrated when the tier first game into fruition and as the meta changed (and the bans) Meow's looking quite good despite Cinder, who is A- at worst.
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Rises
  • :Great Tusk: from S- to S
  • :Chien-Pao: from A+ to S
  • :Garganacl: from A to S-
  • :Hatterene: from A- to A
  • :Rotom-Wash: from A- to A
  • :Skeledirge: from A- to A
  • :Volcarona: from A- to A
  • :Meowscarada: from B to B+
  • :Toxapex: from B to A
  • :Tauros-Paldea-Fire: from B- to B
  • :Ceruledge: from C to B
  • :Floatzel: from C to C+
  • :Hydreigon: from C to B-
  • :Slowbro: from C to C+
  • :Kilowattrel: from D to C
  • :Quagsire: from D to C
  • :Rotom-Heat: from D to C
  • :Sandy Shocks: from D to C+
Drops
  • :Dragapult: from S- to A+
  • :Espathra: from A+ to A
  • :Roaring Moon: from A+ to A
  • :Ting-Lu: from A+ to A
  • :Glimmora: from A to A-
  • :Grimmsnarl: from A to B
  • :Iron Treads: from A to B+
  • :Iron Moth: from A- to B+
  • :Baxcalibur: from B+ to B
  • :Iron Hands: from B+ to B
  • :Quaquaval: from B+ to B
  • :Torkoal: from B+ to B
  • :Blissey: from B to C
  • :Ditto: from B to D
  • :Pawmot: from B to B-
  • :Tyranitar: from B to C
  • :Gyarados: from B- to C
  • :Hawlucha: from B- to C+
  • :Hippowdon: from B- to C
  • :Iron Jugulis: from B- to C
  • :Barraskewda: from C+ to C
  • :Iron Thorns: from C+ to D
  • :Masquerain: from C+ to C-
  • :Pincurchin: from C+ to D
  • :Scovillain: from C+ to C
  • :Arcanine: from C to D
  • :Avalugg: from C to D
  • :Chansey: from C to D
  • :Cloyster: from C to D
  • :Gastrodon: from C to D
  • :Lokix: from C to D
  • :Mimikyu: from C to D
  • :Polteageist: from C to D
  • :Sylveon: from C to D
  • :Talonflame: from C to D
  • :Brute Bonnet: from D to UR
  • :Cetitan: from D to UR
Additions
  • :Bellibolt: from UR to D
  • :Cinderace: from Unreleased to A
  • :Flamigo: from UR to D
  • :Tauros-Paldea-Water: from UR to B-
  • :Tinkaton: from UR to D
  • :Toedscruel: from UR to C
I am out of the house from 6:30am-11pm tomorrow and a bit under the weather, so I am keeping this locked for a day and then it will open for the normal day of questions that I will get to explaining the new rankings. Please do not ask me anything in the meantime -- things will get addressed soon enough. The OP will be updated at some point soon, too.
 
  • :Bellibolt: from UR to D
  • :Flamigo: from UR to D
  • :Tinkaton: from UR to D
  • :Toedscruel: from UR to C
to take the low-hanging fruit from the tree, I'm a little curious as to why these pokemon were ranked. Toedscruel I can somewhat understand, having an unignorable Spore is great when you have Gholdengo and Garganacl running amok in this meta [though I will ask one question: why the high ranking?], every other of these new additions feel a little odd. What do Tinkaton/Bellibolt/Flamigo do in the OU meta that would warrant even a small ranking on this VR?

I'm also a little curious why Iron Hands dropped but I won't really elaborate on that question further.
 
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Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Why'd this fall so far down? Webs still feel like a ~C or C+ strategy, and the wave of quickbans didn't really hurt or help it that much (or at least from what I can see)
Webs is just proving itself to be more fringe over time, especially with an uptick in boots and a downtick in general hyper offense use
I don't play OU but I lurk around these places long enough so I can have at least a basic understanding of the meta.


to take the low-hanging fruit from the tree, I'm a little curious as to why these pokemon were ranked. Toedscruel I can somewhat understand, having an unignorable Spore is great when you have Gholdengo and Garganacl running amok in this meta [though I will ask one question: why the high ranking?], every other of these new rankings feels a little odd. What do Tinkaton/Bellibolt/Flamigo do in the OU meta that would warrant even a small ranking on this VR?

I'm also a little curious why Iron Hands dropped but I won't really elaborate on that question further.
Toed by definition has a niche and it’s defensive typing is somewhat practical, Tinkaron has an awesome defensive typing that especially shines in a Chien-Pao metagame, Flamigo is just a pretty dangerous offensive presence that sees fringe usage, and Bellibolt I voted UR on so I’ll abstain comment

Hands is just hard to fit despite being similarly effective tbh, maybe it was best served with cyclizar screens which is no longer present either
 

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