Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #390 ]

Vert

formerly Vertex
is a Tiering Contributor
question 1. why did urchin join indeedee in D?

like ya they are both shit 400bst 'mons but they enable some dangerous strats like valiant with +1 speed, no item lock & armarouge x espathra / polt. both strats were a success in spl and ladder

e-terrain and psy-terrain archetypes are easier to run this gen as well with no tapus or rilla. both enablers are more along the lines of masquerain and charizard in C than bellibolt and maushold in D (imo)

question 2. what does slowbro do & why did it rise?

question 3. why did kilowattrel rise?
 
Last edited:
I guess I wasn't convincing or high enough ranked to be taken seriously, but a little saddened Dragalge and Vaporeon were left out of the ranking while Bellibolt and Flamigo were ranked. Also fairly surprised Floatzel and Barraskewda switched spots, they feel very similar in efficacy on rain teams.
 
Why did Iron Hands drop a subrank? Being a physical attacker that matches up well against Dondozo is a crazy niche to have, and the fact that Hands can essentially force a trade against almost any mon in the tier seems a lot more valuable when Chien-Pao is so dominant, and quite a few folks here (myself included) genuinely expected a rise.

I don't think anything currently in B is bad (I'm a huge Fire P-Tauros advocate), but I definitely think Hands is closer to Clodsire or Glimmora than to Quaquaval or Baxcalibur right now. But I'm definitely interested in hearing the reasoning in case there's something huge I'm overlooking.
 
Why did Iron Hands drop a subrank? Being a physical attacker that matches up well against Dondozo is a crazy niche to have, and the fact that Hands can essentially force a trade against almost any mon in the tier seems a lot more valuable when Chien-Pao is so dominant, and quite a few folks here (myself included) genuinely expected a rise.

I don't think anything currently in B is bad (I'm a huge Fire P-Tauros advocate), but I definitely think Hands is closer to Clodsire or Glimmora than to Quaquaval or Baxcalibur right now. But I'm definitely interested in hearing the reasoning in case there's something huge I'm overlooking.
The metagame is becoming a lot more defensive, and Iron Hands doesn't have the longevity to truly be as dominant as you would think. It has crazy good bulk and a great typing for the tier, but it doesn't have utility like hazards, which makes Ting Lu incredibly good. It also doesn't check Chien Pao in the long run thanks to a lack of recovery, something that Tera Fairy/Water Garganacl does much better (also with access to stealth rock + salt cure). Additionally, with Tusk and Ting Lu being everywhere, hazards all over the field, and Skeledirge + Rotom-W + Valiant + Volc still being prevalent, you really can't bring Hands in that easily. In practicality, Hands is merely a one time switch in to Chien Pao (or you run physdef rest hands which is ass). Glimmora always has utility in a match thanks to being able to set up hazards and fuel a whole playstyle well, and Clodsire is the tier's premier special wall, whereas Hands is a slow attacker with lackluster longevity. Quaquaval and Baxcalibur are also favored in current metagame trends, with Quaquaval being a soft check to Chien Pao that has recovery while also being a threatening sweeper, and with Baxcalibur being threatening into Balance thanks to monstrous attack, Glaive Rush, and sets like Band and DD.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, Hands is a good mon, it just needs a lot more support than the B+ or higher mons, and lacks real longevity to utilize its strengths well.
 
Why did :Sylveon: droped bad? (this is more like a feelings and emotions question since i did a large post about it the day before the rankings, :blobsad:)

and why :talonflame: dropped bad too but :Corviknight: didnt? I mean, sure, talanflame was a meme to begin with, but at least has a better gholdengo matchup, Corviknight cannot do anything against it unless you use stuff like Bulk Up + Power Trip (which is fun, ill admit) but not too efficient overall
 
  • Like
Reactions: eu

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
question 1. why did urchin join indeedee in D?

like ya they are both shit 400bst 'mons but they enable some dangerous strats like valiant with +1 speed, no item lock & armarouge x espathra / polt. both strats were a success in spl and ladder

e-terrain and psy-terrain archetypes are easier to run this gen as well with no tapus or rilla. both enablers are more along the lines of masquerain and charizard in C than bellibolt and maushold in D (imo)
There is some viability there and we are happy to keep both ranked, but Electeic and Psychic Terrain teams are still uncommon and inconsistent overall. I am fine with them being in D or lower C, but I don’t think it’s some travesty that they dropped.
question 2. what does slowbro do & why did it rise?
While being stationary due to the loss of Teleport, it’s physically defensive presence is superb right now. Regenerator with the ability to check Great Tusk better than virtually anything else grounded and do well into Dragonite, Quaquaval, and the Rain abusers (Floatzel/Barraskewda) goes a long way. It has a slew of practical moveset options as well.
question 3. why did kilowattrel rise?
It’s still pretty lackluster, but it sees a fair amount of usage on Rain. I personally find it hard to fit regardless, but it exists on a semi-regular basis and compliments Swift Swim abusers nicely.
I guess I wasn't convincing or high enough ranked to be taken seriously, but a little saddened Dragalge and Vaporeon were left out of the ranking while Bellibolt and Flamigo were ranked. Also fairly surprised Floatzel and Barraskewda switched spots, they feel very similar in efficacy on rain teams.
Just because one person makes a nomination or has certain experiences wherever they may be on the ladder or in tournaments does not mean it’s a universal sentiment. That does not invalidate your stance or minimize your contributions, but some things lack the support to get ranked or move up; we appreciate you posting, but posting doesn’t give you a lock to get the changes you want either. In this instance, those are two Pokemon with really borderline niches that are hard to justify on any common archetype, and the metagame playing out as it is attests to this, so it’s a hard sell to rank them now.
Why did Iron Hands drop a subrank? Being a physical attacker that matches up well against Dondozo is a crazy niche to have, and the fact that Hands can essentially force a trade against almost any mon in the tier seems a lot more valuable when Chien-Pao is so dominant, and quite a few folks here (myself included) genuinely expected a rise.

I don't think anything currently in B is bad (I'm a huge Fire P-Tauros advocate), but I definitely think Hands is closer to Clodsire or Glimmora than to Quaquaval or Baxcalibur right now. But I'm definitely interested in hearing the reasoning in case there's something huge I'm overlooking.
I’d argue that the prevalence of Dondozo is plateauing, if not minimizing itself, so this is really not as important as it was from the jump. Hands is great, but it’s really predominantly a fit on hyper offensive teams as if lacks a true set of things it covers on the teambuilding checklist, but it’s still good on providing pressure and forcing a kill into most structures. And those type of teams are decreasing in viability right now, so it was arguably a casualty of that.
Why did ceruledge increase in viability?
It was initially ranked very lowly because people had yet to try it out seriously and find the optimal sets on it. Now people are abusing Flash Fire + Tera and its signature move with a more balanced presence. It’s actually challenging to kill and more feasible to abuse with the decent viability of Fire types and prominence of things like Sun right now, even with Chi-Yu banned.
what caused the iron moth drop? is it the overall increase in stuff like pex and skeledirge or something among those lines?
Yes, but also it’s just genuinely hard to fit onto teams right now as it doesn’t cover much defensively while not being fast enough to be a primary revenge killing option. It’s stuck in the middle as a bit inconsistent and lacking a defined role.
Why did :Sylveon: droped bad? (this is more like a feelings and emotions question since i did a large post about it the day before the rankings, :blobsad:)

and why :talonflame: dropped bad too but :Corviknight: didnt? I mean, sure, talanflame was a meme to begin with, but at least has a better gholdengo matchup, Corviknight cannot do anything against it unless you use stuff like Bulk Up + Power Trip (which is fun, ill admit) but not too efficient overall
Unfortunately, Sylveon has just been middling for a while. It did see one promising use in SPL, but otherwise, it’s been virtually nonexistent on high ladder or tournaments.

Talonflame just really lacks the consistent defensive presence and bulk to hold up in this metagame state regardless of how well it can do into Great Tusk (which itself is still not amazing due to Knock Off or AV with Rock coverage). Corvi is a regular on the most common archetype and while it faces more limitations this generation, still excels as a unique defensive and utility presence.
 
curious about the quagsire rise, havent seen it at all on ladder and on paper it just seems like a dondozo that can't even pretend to check chien pao. what does it do that sets it appart from other unaware mons?

as for other random questions: any reason why tyranitar didn't drop further? what kept hatterene from moving up to A+ over just A? what niche does rotom-heat have that warrents a rise?
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
curious about the quagsire rise, havent seen it at all on ladder and on paper it just seems like a dondozo that can't even pretend to check chien pao. what does it do that sets it appart from other unaware mons?
The Ground typing and access to Spikes (and SR/TSpikes).
as for other random questions: any reason why tyranitar didn't drop further? what kept hatterene from moving up to A+ over just A? what niche does rotom-heat have that warrents a rise?
Sand can still disrupt other weathers and it provides a ghost resist.

It just isn’t quite as good as the top 5-7 Pokemon in the tier. A is more fitting of its overall viability. It’s easy to predict and chip down if you have the right personnel, especially in the form of a Draining Kiss switch in.

Unique defensive typing that allows for it to fit specific defensive molds, but it’s still quite limited and not ranked overly high.
 
A couple questions:

What spurred on the Ting-Lu drop? I find it very useful as a Ghost resist, special wall, Spikes setter, and Whirlwind helps so much against Volcarona, Espathra, etc. Always feels easy to fit on a team and always feels like it makes the team better.

Also, which set(s) are Hydreigons using that give it B- viability?
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
A couple questions:

What spurred on the Ting-Lu drop? I find it very useful as a Ghost resist, special wall, Spikes setter, and Whirlwind helps so much against Volcarona, Espathra, etc. Always feels easy to fit on a team and always feels like it makes the team better.

Also, which set(s) are Hydreigons using that give it B- viability?
I think Ting-Lu is still similarly good, but the higher ranks are bloated as we find out how great and metagame defining certain things are. Tusk being a slight competitor with it (they can coexist, but do not always reside on the same teams) hurt a tad here though. Overall, it’s still clearly a top 15 option and straddles the line between A and A+ imo. It’s clearly a great Pokemon right now.

Hydreigon I mostly see specs and NP3A as a hard hitting special attacker with a unique defensive typing.
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
I would be curious to hear the reasonings for Cinderace at A and also for the Dragapult drop
Cinderace is a good option with a strong, but not overwhelming offensive presence and options for pivoting, hazard field management, and priority. It’s pretty close between A and A-, but it’s by no means a top tier option or mediocre, so it ended up here.

Dragapult is still phenomenal and one of the top Pokenon, but those in S rank have really distinguished themselves and Dragapult is just a tier below them as a less controversial and polarizing option.
 
Why did Tauros-Water rise?
Good chien pao check, checks great tusk, the water coverage is nice to hit things that the fire variant misses out on, and if it loses boots you still resist rocks letting it stick around a bit longer without them. The lack of wisp is noticeable but most times that water coverage and less dependence on boots is enough to be competitive with the fire variant.
 
curious about the quagsire rise, havent seen it at all on ladder and on paper it just seems like a dondozo that can't even pretend to check chien pao. what does it do that sets it appart from other unaware mons?

as for other random questions: any reason why tyranitar didn't drop further? what kept hatterene from moving up to A+ over just A? what niche does rotom-heat have that warrents a rise?
I’ve been using Quagsire a bit recently. The main selling point to me is it compresses unaware + hazards (rocks and/or spikes) while also beating Dragonite. Clodsire is it’s main competition in unaware + hazards, but getting hit super effectively by dnite earthquakes is why I chose Quagsire.
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Hi, great work on the VR so far. Just wondering what caused Hydreigon to rise and Baxcalibur to drop?
Hydreigon has seen some usage after the Chi-Yu a with both specs and NP3A. It is still pretty mediocre, but absolutely viable. Baxc has struggled to see usage as it’s reliant on Tera defensively a lot and there are a lot of competitors. It even dropped to UU before they banned it, but usage obviously isn’t a full indicator — basically it’s still viable, just quite limited.
 

Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Hydreigon rising is strange considering the meta would seem almost tailor-made to scare it off bar a Tera — Chien, Valiant, Pult, its like skeledirge is the only thing this mon wants to see.

Meowscarada surprises me though. Is it Choiced Sets? Or Boots, even? Surely something to make up for its rather lackluster power level.


And Slowbro? I’m not even kidding what does it do???
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 6, Guests: 13)

Top