Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

[Unowndragon]

I also want to try to give my own opinion of pkm viability ranking

Rise

-> S
This mon has such powerful firepower，great STABs，great ability，if any team need a wall/stallbreaker pokemon,Chi-Yu is your first choice，Most teams can join it to gain powerful destructive power

-> S
sv ou's landous-T，it can do very well in attack, defense and support，it comprehensiveness is worth joining most teams, even all teams.

-> S-
For most teams, it not only has the incomparable ability of wallbreaker/stallbreaker，it defensive ability is quite reliable. No team can directly 0hko this Mon.

-> S-
Fast，powerful and have ice shard/sucker punch，tera dark+band+crunch can defeat many bulky pkm such as Annihilape/Dondozo，135 speed It can make chien-bao stable and attack first.

->A+
powerful salt cure,powerful tera,powerful ability,it can not only use iron defense+body press,it also can use stealth rock great.I think this mon is worth A+.

->A
Now Garchomp not only use stealth+spikes+Rocky Helmet,it also maintained his offensive ability,life orb mix attacker/Swords Dance+Stealth Rock are gerat set on this metagame.

->A
Great Mon against Stealth Rock/Spikes,and also can help u against Dragon pokemon such as Garchomp/Dragonite/Great Tusk/Ting-Lu.

->A
Flame Body is great on this metagame,and you never underestimate Quiver Dance，it still strong mon.

->B+
Although Toxapex lose Scald and Knock Off,it still use Toxic/Toxic Spikes+Haze help balance team,and sometimes the pex can use Covert Cloak,Pex still bulky and have good support.

->B(or B -）
Thanks for tera+flash fire+bulk up,Ceruledge has proved its strength as a wallbreaker/sweeper，Bitter Blade is such a powerful move，Ceruledge is also the key to help you fight against fire type move in the team.

->B
A great mon that help u to against Kingambit and Chien-Bao，always shine in the right team

->B
A good pkm against Great Tusk,the unique type and move help it establish its own position in the team,and First Impression help this mon to against Chien-Bao/Chi-Yu.

->C+（B-）
great Speed and Powerful Wave Crash let this mon become a great rain sweeper/attacker

-> C+
Sandy Shock has great STAB move(good electric attacker+spikes)，this makes him a key player in a team with a positive rhythm,and it is a good stealth rock/spikes pkm.

Drops

->A-(or A)
i don't think this mon can A+,although it's a great sweeper,but it's also a match-up pokemon,there are also often cases of inaction，this instability has lowered my evaluation of this mon.

->B+（or A-）
i don't think on sv ou,Corviknight is a great pkm,especially this mon use Defog,So much Gholdengo block this mon，this Mon is seriously hindered and challenged in Gen9，I don't think this Mon is as stable as it used to be.

->A-
Sorry Iron Treads,although u are a good stealth rock user/rapid spin user,but on this gen,u can't defeat Great Tusk,because of this way,my evaluation of you is not A

->A
This mon still great, but it is not suitable for all teams,on Sun team or some bulky offense team,it is strong,i think A is more suitable for this mon.Moon is in the right strength, but the disadvantages are also obvious（it's def emm...）

->B+
It is also an offensive pkm with obvious advantages and disadvantages. it has not reached the level that many teams can join and really need tera.

->C
Although this is a quite distinctive Mon,But his suitable team is quite few，In many cases, you will not consider it in the first place，and most of the game,this mon can only use Shed Tail once.

->C
Except for the rain team,most of the time i don't think it can against Hydreigon and other Dark Type pkm，even its own characteristics are not as clear as Iron Thorns.

->D
Sorry Lokix，although i really like this kamen-rider pkm，however, it is quite difficult for most players to build a suitable team. Limited by its own BST, I'm afraid lower tier is more suitable for this Mon.

-> Unrank
Who are you？i prefer Wo-Chien D rank on SV OU

 

[Pinlup is the best]

- Ironically, loses to its past self
Better defensive typing against ghold is debatable

Hi fluff you ssem to be able to answer everyone else's questions I was wondering if you can answer mine what exactly makes ghold a s tier threat in the meta game it can't switch in to shit and it's not the fastest scarfer nither the only specs user drgapult is one to.

 

[memesketch]

ok maybe im crazy but ive been putting in some work with -> C. Been using NP / Ice Beam / Surf / Grass Knot and at +2 it OHKOs Dondozo as well as Tera Water Garganacl and Annihilape. Floatzel can struggle to break through those fat water types and Clodsire so having strong natural Grass coverage with Swift Swim is really strong. I've been building rain and struggling a bit to break through Clodsire + Dondozo but Golduck can abuse them both to no end while still having a very good base speed tier in the rain.

Agree with this rise 100%. Was actually thinking abt making this nom myself. That Specs set I think is what makes the mon tick, really strong with Tera Water plus has the bulk to take Sucker Punches and the coverage to dispatch whatever can take Surf/Pump. Haven't seen or tried NP but seems like it would work pretty well cause this thing forces a lot of switches. The bootleg Kingdra to Floatzel's bootleg Vish, really surprised that it's not ranked.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Hi fluff you ssem to be able to answer everyone else's questions I was wondering if you can answer mine what exactly makes ghold a s tier threat in the meta game it can't switch in to shit and it's not the fastest scarfer nither the only specs user drgapult is one to.

Not him but even if it is kinda bad vs offense, it can take adventage of support mons since its typing is great and walls a lot of common moves on said mons and it's inmune to status while also blocks defog which is big in this meta.

 

[FCKNfuego]

->B

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 265-313 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 277-327 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You don't need rain for this mon to be good. It's also basically Vish with Swift Swim...

 

[ayevon]

->B

252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 265-313 (65.7 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Wave Crash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 277-327 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You don't need rain for this mon to be good. It's also basically Vish with Swift Swim...

That calc is with 85 bp Fishous Rend, 252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 532-627 (132 - 155.5%)

 

[FCKNfuego]

Thanks for the correction. I was wondering about that. Disregard my post then.

 

[Scorer]

I've been trying Goodra as a counter to the special attackers and it worked kinda well. To be fair, I'm not as experienced on the ladder yet so I don't know if its just some low rank stuff or if it could actually be viable. My thinking was just that since it has huge sp def (150) and decent sp atk (110) you can work with that against some of the OU threats.
So I've been playing 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / modest nature
with Assault Vest/Choice Specs , Dragon Pulse (Draco Meteor) + Sludge Bomb + Thunderbolt (Thunder) + Flamethrower (Fire Blast)
it has been working quite well since you can survive a specs Dragapult and Gholdengo with Assault Vest and deal huge amount of damage to Gholdengo and can kill Dragapult even with AV
also the Choice Specs build catches some people off guard while still being tanky enough to survive most things (apart from Specs Dragapult with Draco)
This isn't a nomination but just throwing this out here to see what you think about this

edit: you can also play calm nature with 252HP and some SpDef investment and not get 0KO by sepcs dragapult while playing Specs
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Goodra: 320-380 (83.3 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[BolTingBlazie]

I also want to try to give my own opinion of pkm viability ranking





Drops

View attachment 478609->B+（or A-）
i don't think on sv ou,Corviknight is a great pkm,especially this mon use Defog,So much Gholdengo block this mon，this Mon is seriously hindered and challenged in Gen9，I don't think this Mon is as stable as it used to be.


View attachment 478613->C
Although this is a quite distinctive Mon,But his suitable team is quite few，In many cases, you will not consider it in the first place，and most of the game,this mon can only use Shed Tail once.

View attachment 478609Stay A Corv shouldn't drop, as its an invaluable check to Chien Pao, as Chien only 2hkos with crash or spinner, which allows corv to okho back with body press if it doesn't get flinched. Also defog despite being blocked by Gholdengo is very strong since its so limited this gen, so A rank seems right for the time being.

View attachment 478613-> B Orth is an interesting case, but I think it should rise B rank rather than drop, since shed tail is busted and provides a lot of value, even if Cyclizar is better at using said move, shed tail is busted and even just one can end a game outright since passing a shed tail oftentimes can mean tera normal dragonite can dragon dance and sweep, as well as enabling a lot of other sweepers since they wouldn't have to slot sub into their movesets. There is very little opportunity cost to running shed tail and very high reward with the momentum it gives as well as it enabling sweepers who appreciate the free switch ins. B seems appropriate, as with Cyclizar existing and outclassing it at the shed tail job, despite shed tail being a broken piece of shit move, I cannot in good faith nom orth any higher than B.

Also, I agree on the A- rise for Quaquaval and Iron Hands, both have been popping off against fatter teams lately!

 

[_Insida]

art by ausma | VR concept credit goes to PK Gaming | run by Finchinator
​

Welcome to the first ever Scarlet and Violet Overused viability rankings!

In this thread, we, as a community, will be ranking every single justifiably usable Pokemon into "tiers" ranking their viability in the metagame. You're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are viable in OU and what tier they should fall under. Posts in this thread will be taken into account when deciding rank changes, but the ultimate decision will be handled by OU Viability Rankings council vote during each slate of rankings -- more on this later.

The general idea of the topic is to rank each OU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a tier list for the entire metagame, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense, defense, and supportive presences in the metagame within this thread. For example, Rotom-Wash can be ranked in the A- tier as a supportive presence, Iron Moth can be ranked in the A- as an offensive presence, and Skelridge can be ranked in the A- tier as a defensive presence. While these three examples can also be found in the initial rankings, the viability of Pokemon and their roles within the metagame can and will change over time, so we will be sure to keep an open mind to this as well and adjust the thread accordingly during each update.

Finally, there will be a council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of Pokemon. Depending on how the metagame is developing, we could update the thread every couple of weeks or every month+. Please note that your posts still very much matter and will be factored in to what we discuss and the discussions themselves. This thread is nothing without the posters and every informed opinion that is shared is considered a valuable contribution in my eyes, so do not hesitate to post if you know the metagame well and understand the forum rules. The council will consist of the following users:

• airfare
• ayevon
• ausma
• Finchinator
• ironwater
• njnp
• Ruft
• talah
• TPP
• Zneon

SV OU Viability Ranking Tier List

S Rank:

S Rank

Gholdengo

S- Rank

Chi-Yu
Dragapult
Great Tusk

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Annihilape
Chien-Pao
Cyclizar
Dragonite
Espathra
Iron Valiant
Kingambit
Roaring Moon
Ting-Lu

A Rank

Corviknight
Dondozo
Garganacl
Glimmora
Grimmsnarl
Iron Treads

A- Rank

Amoonguss
Clodsire
Garchomp
Hatterene
Iron Moth
Rotom-Wash
Skeledirge
Volcarona

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Baxcalibur
Breloom
Iron Hands
Quaquaval
Scizor
Slowking
Torkoal

B Rank

Azumarill
Blissey
Ditto
Meowscarada
Pawmot
Toxapex
Tyranitar

B- Rank

Gyarados
Hawlucha
Hippowdon
Iron Jugulis
Orthworm
Pelipper
Slither Wing
Tauros-Paldea-Fire

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Barraskewda
Iron Thorns
Masquerain
Pincurchin
Scovillain

C Rank

Alomomola
Arcanine
Avalugg
Ceruledge
Chansey
Charizard
Cloyster
Floatzel
Gallade
Gastrodon
Hydreigon
Lokix
Magnezone
Mimikyu
Polteageist
Scream Tail
Slowbro
Sylveon
Talonflame

D Rank:

D Rank

Brute Bonnet
Cetitan
Gengar
Haxorus
Indeedee
Kilowattrel
Klefki
Maushold
Quagsire
Rabsca
Rotom-Heat
Salamence
Sandy Shocks
Umbreon

Rules - Updated as of 12/12/22

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will be deleted and potentially infracted if it is a repeat issue. Expand on your opinion with actual analysis showing understanding of the metagame and perhaps bringing a unique perspective to the conversation.
• Absolutely no flaming, personal attacks, or general idiocy will be tolerated. Part of this is under moderator discretion and please know that posting in this thread is a privilege, not a right. You'll get warned initially if it is not something overly malicious, but harsher punishments can and will come with repeated behavior or severe offenses.
• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. There needs to be more substance than just this. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
• When nominating a Pokemon to move from one rank to another, do not merely list its obvious qualities such as stats, typing, movepool, etc. If you think a Pokemon deserves to rise or drop, explain what has changed in the meta to cause such Pokemon to get better or worse. I can assure you that the VR Council already knows the obvious qualities and we are far more interested in understanding why you believe it has increased or decreased in viability.
• Unrelated discussion such as talk of (potential) suspects and unproductive one liners that do not greatly contribute to discussion will be deleted. If this becomes a recurring issue for any particular user, then it could lead to an infraction. If you are unsure where to post something, feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord. Moreover, if you have a general question, then odds are it belongs in the SQSA, not here.
• Being OU by usage alone does not guarantee a ranking. We touched on usage not being the sole reason behind viability of anything before, but this is very true here as a lot of things accumulate ladder usage despite not being the best option. Do not mistake the correlation between usage and viability as stronger than it actually is. If you have any further questions about this, please start a conversation with me on here or discord instead of posting it in this thread.
• When new Pokemon, items, abilities, and/or anything else relevant to the OU metagame are released, please hold off on discussing the ranking of the new Pokemon or the rankings of Pokemon that are impacted by these developments until there is approval to discuss the matter by an OU Moderator in this thread.
• Failure to follow these rules after warning(s) will result in an infraction or possibly a ban depending on the severity of the offenses.
• If you are nominating a Pokemon to be ranked (meaning it was previously unranked), then you need to provide replays of it being used in the metagame and you also should go out of your way to be as thorough as possible in explaining why it has a niche in the metagame (Example of GOOD UR Nomination) -- a vast majority of nominations have been of poor quality historically and we reserve the right to revoke nomination privileges from thread posters at any point in time. If you are in doubt, then feel free to start a conversation with me on here or discord prior to nominating a Pokemon and I will give you honest feedback on the post.

Blacklisted Pokemon: All posts regarding these Pokemon will be deleted (or nominations of these Pokemon will be removed)

• None (for now)

I am hoping for a productive discussion to take place in this thread throughout the generation. I am looking forward to seeing the metagame develop in front of our eyes; I find this to be a very cool prospect and it is one of the main reasons why I elect to run this thread. With this said, I am still only one person and our moderation team only consists of so many people, so try not to make our lives too hard here...post intelligently, lurk before commenting if you are new, and do not expect everything to be moderated super closely 24/7. We are all volunteering our time and effort to maintain threads like these, so we expect a certain degree of respect and understanding of this.

I'm pretty surprised about the rankings of Avalugg and Gallade being in C rank. I know that Gallade did get Sharpness in this game as an ability which let it hit a bit harder, but what lets Avalugg stand out enough to be ranked in OU?

 

[Finchinator]

what lets Avalugg stand out enough to be ranked in OU?

 

[Karxrida]

To add to this, I presume Tera helps its not have to deal with being a defensive Ice-type. Having good Atk and Recover also help.

You can even do Mirror Coat and Iron Defense + Body Press shenanigans.

 

[_Insida]

To add to this, I presume Tera helps its not have to deal with being a defensive Ice-type. Having good Atk and Recover also help.

You can even do Mirror Coat and Iron Defense + Body Press shenanigans.

The defense being high is obviously a really good thing since it becomes an enormous physical wall, especially under snow, but doesn't its abysmal special defense give it a hard time against a lot of special attackers even with sturdy+mirror coat things, considering how both gholdengo and chi-yu are among the best mons in the tier currently

 

[1LDK]

avalugg has EQ and spin, so in hail and with AV, you can basically laugh at gholdengo

 

[Karxrida]

The defense being high is obviously a really good thing since it becomes an enormous physical wall, especially under snow, but doesn't its abysmal special defense give it a hard time against a lot of special attackers even with sturdy+mirror coat things, considering how both gholdengo and chi-yu are among the best mons in the tier currently

252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fighting Avalugg: 150-177 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fighting Avalugg: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just went with Fighting randomly for a neutral calc. You probably want Steel.

Regardless, Avalugg is so physically fat you might be able to afford full SpD investment if you really want to surprise Ghlodengo with Mirror Coat. You probably shouldn't stay in on Chi-Yu, though you can survive Specs Dark Pulse even without Sturdy if you're nearly topped off.

252 SpA Choice Specs Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Tera Steel Avalugg: 303-357 (76.9 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (EV spread was changed to simulate Beads.)

 

[UnfortunateSal]

Been lurking a bit for a while and I wanted to make a few VR nominations based on my experience on the ladder:

Rises:

S- to S: broken fish plz ban

S- to S: I honestly feel like this thing is on par with Gholdengo in terms of how splashable it is, how much utility it provides, how well it can patch holes in teams, and just how ridiculously threatening it is. It's the kind of Pokemon you cna always add to a team and always get something out of. It's both an amazing utility mon with Knock off and Rapid Spin, and an absurd offensive presence with Headlong Rush, CC, and.. well, Rapid Spin, it's able to switch in on really threatening stuff like Roaring Moon and just take over games from there, it's one of the best answers to hazard-stacking both against offensive Glimmora teams nad bulky Ting-Lu teams, best hazard remover in the tier, one of the biggest offensive threats in the tier, very versatile in what it can do. The fact that it's one of the best checks to itself tells you all you need to know about how dominant it is right now.

A+ to S-: Just an absurdly silly mon, I think people are catching up to how ridiculous Banded Tera Dark is and how difficult it is to wall while also fixing Chien-Pao's rocks weakness without requiring HDB. It just tears through pretty much everything, can even break Donzodo as I'll mention below, and has an absolutely ridiculous speed tier with multiple priority options, you can easily sucker punch Scizor trying to revenge kill you and stuff. I think it's easily above the rest of S- and at least on par with Dragapult as an offensive threat, and unlike Chi-Yu it doesn't need to choose between power and speed. Also please ban this too lmao it's so busted

A+ to S-: This is a step above the rest of A+ to me too, when I compare it to Roaring Moon and Dragonite it just feels a lot more threatening and a lot better to use. Absurd typing both offensively and defensively, Fairy is pretty ridiculous offensively right now and Moonblast is so, so spammable. Right now, I feel like there are 2 sets that stand above the rest, those being the Specs wallbreaker and Energy Booster cleaner, and both are amazing at what they do. Specs tears through stuff and can just spam Moonblast once its resists are weakened enough, which is not too hard to do, the only Fairy resists that commonly pack recovery are Corviknight and Clodsire, which get lured by Tbolt and Psyshock respectively, (Gholdengo learns Recover but I haven't seen people run it that much even if I advocate it myself), so it can easily git in a position where it just rips stuff apart. Its typing and speed makes it pretty easy to get in and start clicking buttons, too. I personally prefer the Energy Booster set though, it's straight-up the best lategame cleaner in the game for the same reasons mentioned above, and also doubles as a great emergency revenge killer. You can argue that it has some 4MSS, it wants Fighting and Fiary STAB, Tbolt for Corviknight and Toxapex, Psyshock for Clodsire and Iron Moth, and Shadow Ball or Knock Off for Gholdengo, but since Tera Electric TBolt 2 shots offensive Gholdengo anyway, that 4MSS isn't that much of a big deal, and to me at least, it feels more like, both playing with and against Iron Valiant, people will desperately scramble to check it despite having multiple things that beat it on paper. Insanely threatening mon, deserving of S- imo.

A to A+: I genuinely do not understand why some people are asking for it to drop, this feels like an extremely good defensive mon right now, and so annoying for so many teams to break. Sure, it can't Defog reliably, but I feel like its main role right now isn't ad a Hazard remover, but as a wall and pivot. It checks so much stuff right now, depending on the set it deals with Great Tusk, Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, Dragonite, Iron Valiant, running Taunt even helps against Garganacl too, there's even stuff like Scizor, Azumarill and Meowscarada gaining traction and it checks those too, the number of Pokemon this deals with is just silly. It offers amazing utility by U-Turning into offensive teammates, probably the best Voltturn pivot right now. This thing just slots on so many bulky teams nad provides incredibly defensive utility.

A to A+: By far the best defensive wincon in the tier, can take over games so easily thanks to both Tera and Salt Cure just completely fucking over its checks, so many teams will lose to it, and there are multiple great Tera types to choose from too. This Pokemon is just such a huge problem to beat and one of the first things you need to account for in teambuilding if you don't want to autolose from it. On top of that it also runs a great SR protect set which is less annoying to take down due to the lack of bulk provided by the combination of Iron Defense and SpD investement, but it's still a very, very solid wall.

B to B+: I feel like Azumarill is gaining traction right now, in short it's a decent check to Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao for offensive teams, banded Aqua Jet is pretty threatening, and generally speaking, a lot of people are just underprepared for offensive Waters since they're just not very common. It's a bit comparable to Quaquaval in what it does, but the extra bulk and access to Aqua Jet means it needs less support and functions better as a glue, unlike Quaquaval which is kinda locked into lategame sweeping. Plus, the sparsity of Fairy-types makes them really valuable this gen, and Azumarill is a really solid one.

B to B+: Really like this mon right now, grass STAB is really good for smacking Garganacl and Dondozo which are otherwise hard to break past, and also has the benefit of hitting Great Tusk, and Meowscarada's Flower Trick breaks through defense boosts that all 3 of the Pokemon can set up. Definitely an underrated pick, I would go so far to say that it's better than Breloom since the speed nad access to Knock Off and U-Turn really lets it wear stuff down before it can just spam Flower Trick forever.

B to B+: Yes, I know this thing lost Scald but it's still Toxapex goddamit, it's still very good at both walling stuff and spreading Toxic. This thing is great at pivoting in and out of choiced Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu to scout what they lock themselves into thanks to Regen, and deals with stuff like Volcarona on its own fairly well. Haze helps against a lot of bug setup sweepers like Dragonite, Roaring Moon, Garganacl, even Espathra if you get it in early enough. I feel like this thing is way undervalued as a wall right now and deserves B+ rank, it's at least as good as Slowking as a regen wall, maybe as good as Amoonguss.

B- to B: Very antimeta pick right now, does a good job of checking Chien-Pao thanks to Intimidate, as well as Volcarona which can be a huge pain. It doesn't really beat Chi-Yu but it can 1v1 it at least. Can spread burns with Will-O-Wisp, has pretty good speed, can also hit decently hard, but an underrated application of Paldean Tauros is its ability to break screens with Raging Bull, which can really fuck over screens HO. Solid Pokemon overall, feels way above the rest of B- rank in terms of viability.

Unranked to C / C+: Excuse me? Why isn't this ranked? Tinkaton isn't amazing by any means, but the combination of its typing and the utility it provides between SR, Knock Off and TWave easily earns it a spot on the VR for me. Gigaton Hammer isn't as strong as it should be coming off a base 75 Attack, but it's still a really strong move for a defensive Pokemon like Tinkaton. As mentioned earlier, Fairy types are just really valuable this gen due to the sheer lack of them, and being able to check Chien-Pao as well as a bunch of Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon sets is really good. Oh, and it also sets up rocks through Hatterene which is great. It's definitely at least on par with stuff like Pincurchin and Masquerain, which seem way more gimmicky than Tinkton, this Pokemon has a legit solid niche in OU.

Drops:

A+ to A: This thing is really threatening if you set it up right, but it's the kind of Pokemon you really need to build around ,an dafter using it, I feel like it really lacks opportunities to come in and do it thing properly. The prevalence of Specs Chi-Yu really doesn't help either. Again, really good mon, but feels a little too constraining for A+ rank, and a little out of place there as a result.

A+ to A-: Not sure what this thing is doing all the way up in A+ with Great Tusk dominating the metagame and Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu both checking it, but this thing just feels pretty underwhelming. Supreme Overlord is... okay, but pretty specific, and doesn't power you up that much, and way too much common stuff handles this really well. Not on par with Roaring Moon at all, feels a lot more at home alongside stuff like Skeledirge and Volcarona (heck, I'd argue Volcarona is a lot better right now)

A to A-: Probably a controversial nom but after using this I find it pretty overrated. On paper, it's a perfect Chien-Pao counter, but in practice, it can't reliably handle Tera Dark banded Crunches if it's at any less than like, 70%, or if Chien-Pao gets a defense drop, or if it's asleep and needs to rely on Sleep Talk rolls. In other words, if you've ever sent it out before, it can no longer reliably handle what feels like the most common Chien-Pao set right now. I feel like the prevalence of Band + Tera Dark on Chien-Pao makes it worthy of a drop, it's nowhere near as good a wall as Corviknight right now. It still beats DD Dragonite and Roaring Moon so it's still very good, but god does RestTalk such at recovery, it's so, so unreliable and as a bulky Water it feels closer in viability to Rotom-W.

A to A-: Iron Treads is a really weird case because, on paper, it feels like it should be really good, but in practice, it feels a little underwhelming? It does provide really good utility, with Rocks, Spin, and Knock Off, but being endlessly murked by Great Tusk really hurts, and generally, it's not that reliable at either spinning or setting up rocks. Yes, being a spinner that beats Gholdengo is nice, but Great Tusk does that too, and generally, you really want to be running Great Tusk instead of it unless you really need the extra resists it provides. Iron Treads thing feels like it lives in Great Tusk's shadow in general, and the extra speed and SpD it has over it doesn't even really provide that much. Iron Treads just feels kinda awkward to use, and while I put it on a bunch of team for the utility alone, it never really carries its weight, and being ranked alongside Garchomp feels more appropriate for it.

A- to B+: I feel like this thing has dropped a fair bit, it doesn't deal with Chi-Yu at all and as a special wall / hazard setter it feels completely eclipsed by the far superior Ting-Lu. There isn't that much this beats reliably besides non-Psyshock Iron Valiant, and whole Toxicing stuff is nice, it's really passive. I feel like it's around the same level as Toxapex in viability, maybe a bit worse since it feels like it deals with fewer things in general.

 

[aceguy123]

I think Torkoal should be A-. Not only because sun is a very viable team strategy at the moment, but Torkoal itself is pretty useful in several ways. It's a spinner that threatens Gholdengo and a generally good defensive tank, especially against Chien-Pao.

It is also one of, if not the best Trick Room sweeper. Trick Room seems a bit more viable at the moment than past gens. There have been a couple team structures I've encountered that utilize the fact that many of the setters get healing wish/memento to go straight into a sweeper. Torkoal trades up very often under these circumstances.

The best way I can describe it is that Torkoal actually feels like it is doing something when you run a sun team.

 

[Magcargo]

Been lurking a bit for a while and I wanted to make a few VR nominations based on my experience on the ladder:

Rises:

S- to S: broken fish plz ban

S- to S: I honestly feel like this thing is on par with Gholdengo in terms of how splashable it is, how much utility it provides, how well it can patch holes in teams, and just how ridiculously threatening it is. It's the kind of Pokemon you cna always add to a team and always get something out of. It's both an amazing utility mon with Knock off and Rapid Spin, and an absurd offensive presence with Headlong Rush, CC, and.. well, Rapid Spin, it's able to switch in on really threatening stuff like Roaring Moon and just take over games from there, it's one of the best answers to hazard-stacking both against offensive Glimmora teams nad bulky Ting-Lu teams, best hazard remover in the tier, one of the biggest offensive threats in the tier, very versatile in what it can do. The fact that it's one of the best checks to itself tells you all you need to know about how dominant it is right now.

A+ to S-: Just an absurdly silly mon, I think people are catching up to how ridiculous Banded Tera Dark is and how difficult it is to wall while also fixing Chien-Pao's rocks weakness without requiring HDB. It just tears through pretty much everything, can even break Donzodo as I'll mention below, and has an absolutely ridiculous speed tier with multiple priority options, you can easily sucker punch Scizor trying to revenge kill you and stuff. I think it's easily above the rest of S- and at least on par with Dragapult as an offensive threat, and unlike Chi-Yu it doesn't need to choose between power and speed. Also please ban this too lmao it's so busted

A+ to S-: This is a step above the rest of A+ to me too, when I compare it to Roaring Moon and Dragonite it just feels a lot more threatening and a lot better to use. Absurd typing both offensively and defensively, Fairy is pretty ridiculous offensively right now and Moonblast is so, so spammable. Right now, I feel like there are 2 sets that stand above the rest, those being the Specs wallbreaker and Energy Booster cleaner, and both are amazing at what they do. Specs tears through stuff and can just spam Moonblast once its resists are weakened enough, which is not too hard to do, the only Fairy resists that commonly pack recovery are Corviknight and Clodsire, which get lured by Tbolt and Psyshock respectively, (Gholdengo learns Recover but I haven't seen people run it that much even if I advocate it myself), so it can easily git in a position where it just rips stuff apart. Its typing and speed makes it pretty easy to get in and start clicking buttons, too. I personally prefer the Energy Booster set though, it's straight-up the best lategame cleaner in the game for the same reasons mentioned above, and also doubles as a great emergency revenge killer. You can argue that it has some 4MSS, it wants Fighting and Fiary STAB, Tbolt for Corviknight and Toxapex, Psyshock for Clodsire and Iron Moth, and Shadow Ball or Knock Off for Gholdengo, but since Tera Electric TBolt 2 shots offensive Gholdengo anyway, that 4MSS isn't that much of a big deal, and to me at least, it feels more like, both playing with and against Iron Valiant, people will desperately scramble to check it despite having multiple things that beat it on paper. Insanely threatening mon, deserving of S- imo.

A to A+: I genuinely do not understand why some people are asking for it to drop, this feels like an extremely good defensive mon right now, and so annoying for so many teams to break. Sure, it can't Defog reliably, but I feel like its main role right now isn't ad a Hazard remover, but as a wall and pivot. It checks so much stuff right now, depending on the set it deals with Great Tusk, Roaring Moon, Chien-Pao, Dragonite, Iron Valiant, running Taunt even helps against Garganacl too, there's even stuff like Scizor, Azumarill and Meowscarada gaining traction and it checks those too, the number of Pokemon this deals with is just silly. It offers amazing utility by U-Turning into offensive teammates, probably the best Voltturn pivot right now. This thing just slots on so many bulky teams nad provides incredibly defensive utility.

A to A+: By far the best defensive wincon in the tier, can take over games so easily thanks to both Tera and Salt Cure just completely fucking over its checks, so many teams will lose to it, and there are multiple great Tera types to choose from too. This Pokemon is just such a huge problem to beat and one of the first things you need to account for in teambuilding if you don't want to autolose from it. On top of that it also runs a great SR protect set which is less annoying to take down due to the lack of bulk provided by the combination of Iron Defense and SpD investement, but it's still a very, very solid wall.

B to B+: I feel like Azumarill is gaining traction right now, in short it's a decent check to Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao for offensive teams, banded Aqua Jet is pretty threatening, and generally speaking, a lot of people are just underprepared for offensive Waters since they're just not very common. It's a bit comparable to Quaquaval in what it does, but the extra bulk and access to Aqua Jet means it needs less support and functions better as a glue, unlike Quaquaval which is kinda locked into lategame sweeping. Plus, the sparsity of Fairy-types makes them really valuable this gen, and Azumarill is a really solid one.

B to B+: Really like this mon right now, grass STAB is really good for smacking Garganacl and Dondozo which are otherwise hard to break past, and also has the benefit of hitting Great Tusk, and Meowscarada's Flower Trick breaks through defense boosts that all 3 of the Pokemon can set up. Definitely an underrated pick, I would go so far to say that it's better than Breloom since the speed nad access to Knock Off and U-Turn really lets it wear stuff down before it can just spam Flower Trick forever.

B to B+: Yes, I know this thing lost Scald but it's still Toxapex goddamit, it's still very good at both walling stuff and spreading Toxic. This thing is great at pivoting in and out of choiced Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu to scout what they lock themselves into thanks to Regen, and deals with stuff like Volcarona on its own fairly well. Haze helps against a lot of bug setup sweepers like Dragonite, Roaring Moon, Garganacl, even Espathra if you get it in early enough. I feel like this thing is way undervalued as a wall right now and deserves B+ rank, it's at least as good as Slowking as a regen wall, maybe as good as Amoonguss.

B- to B: Very antimeta pick right now, does a good job of checking Chien-Pao thanks to Intimidate, as well as Volcarona which can be a huge pain. It doesn't really beat Chi-Yu but it can 1v1 it at least. Can spread burns with Will-O-Wisp, has pretty good speed, can also hit decently hard, but an underrated application of Paldean Tauros is its ability to break screens with Raging Bull, which can really fuck over screens HO. Solid Pokemon overall, feels way above the rest of B- rank in terms of viability.

Unranked to C / C+: Excuse me? Why isn't this ranked? Tinkaton isn't amazing by any means, but the combination of its typing and the utility it provides between SR, Knock Off and TWave easily earns it a spot on the VR for me. Gigaton Hammer isn't as strong as it should be coming off a base 75 Attack, but it's still a really strong move for a defensive Pokemon like Tinkaton. As mentioned earlier, Fairy types are just really valuable this gen due to the sheer lack of them, and being able to check Chien-Pao as well as a bunch of Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon sets is really good. Oh, and it also sets up rocks through Hatterene which is great. It's definitely at least on par with stuff like Pincurchin and Masquerain, which seem way more gimmicky than Tinkton, this Pokemon has a legit solid niche in OU.

Drops:

A+ to A: This thing is really threatening if you set it up right, but it's the kind of Pokemon you really need to build around ,an dafter using it, I feel like it really lacks opportunities to come in and do it thing properly. The prevalence of Specs Chi-Yu really doesn't help either. Again, really good mon, but feels a little too constraining for A+ rank, and a little out of place there as a result.

A+ to A-: Not sure what this thing is doing all the way up in A+ with Great Tusk dominating the metagame and Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu both checking it, but this thing just feels pretty underwhelming. Supreme Overlord is... okay, but pretty specific, and doesn't power you up that much, and way too much common stuff handles this really well. Not on par with Roaring Moon at all, feels a lot more at home alongside stuff like Skeledirge and Volcarona (heck, I'd argue Volcarona is a lot better right now)

A to A-: Probably a controversial nom but after using this I find it pretty overrated. On paper, it's a perfect Chien-Pao counter, but in practice, it can't reliably handle Tera Dark banded Crunches if it's at any less than like, 70%, or if Chien-Pao gets a defense drop, or if it's asleep and needs to rely on Sleep Talk rolls. In other words, if you've ever sent it out before, it can no longer reliably handle what feels like the most common Chien-Pao set right now. I feel like the prevalence of Band + Tera Dark on Chien-Pao makes it worthy of a drop, it's nowhere near as good a wall as Corviknight right now. It still beats DD Dragonite and Roaring Moon so it's still very good, but god does RestTalk such at recovery, it's so, so unreliable and as a bulky Water it feels closer in viability to Rotom-W.

A to A-: Iron Treads is a really weird case because, on paper, it feels like it should be really good, but in practice, it feels a little underwhelming? It does provide really good utility, with Rocks, Spin, and Knock Off, but being endlessly murked by Great Tusk really hurts, and generally, it's not that reliable at either spinning or setting up rocks. Yes, being a spinner that beats Gholdengo is nice, but Great Tusk does that too, and generally, you really want to be running Great Tusk instead of it unless you really need the extra resists it provides. Iron Treads thing feels like it lives in Great Tusk's shadow in general, and the extra speed and SpD it has over it doesn't even really provide that much. Iron Treads just feels kinda awkward to use, and while I put it on a bunch of team for the utility alone, it never really carries its weight, and being ranked alongside Garchomp feels more appropriate for it.

A- to B+: I feel like this thing has dropped a fair bit, it doesn't deal with Chi-Yu at all and as a special wall / hazard setter it feels completely eclipsed by the far superior Ting-Lu. There isn't that much this beats reliably besides non-Psyshock Iron Valiant, and whole Toxicing stuff is nice, it's really passive. I feel like it's around the same level as Toxapex in viability, maybe a bit worse since it feels like it deals with fewer things in general.

Corv feels like ass to use. A lot of the time, it just can't do it's job of defogging, forcing you into losing positions where it is forced to U-Turm into something else like Chi-Yu to threaten Gholdengo, but you don't wanna switch into Chi-Yu while rocks are up because that limits it's threat level quite a bit. It's also passive af and can't fit every move it needs to threaten its foes (needs Brave Bird for Annihilape, Body Press for Kingambit, etc.). It still is probably an A-Rank mon, as having a stop gap vs some threats is nice & it's slow U-Turn is really good, but I would not put it any higher.

That being said I agree most of your other noms. I was mixed on Valiant being S-Rank before, but it does have a lot more leeway in messing up compared to something like CB pao due to its SR resistance & doesn't feel like it requires AS much support overall despite its arguably lower reward. It could be S-Rank tho A+ would still be a good fit for it I think. Garg is definitely A+, it's only two weaknesses are random sub Leftovers sweepers like Dragapult and Covert Cloak, but it is amazing at dealing good chip damage and setting up Rocks. Meowscarada is ight, though I think it needs Band to be a true threat, as Boots sets feel way too weak. Def could see it being a B+ mon though. Toxapex should be A Rank, very reliable at chipping opposing physical attackers down w/ Rocky Helmet and can even be annoying for Ground types like Great Tusk due to Chilling Water + Baneful Bunker mindgames. Paldean Tauros is amazing, great at spreading burns and slowing down physical attackers and has a decently strong Body Press to boot. Raging Bull is also great vs Screens.

 

[fluff!!]

Hi fluff you ssem to be able to answer everyone else's questions I was wondering if you can answer mine what exactly makes ghold a s tier threat in the meta game it can't switch in to shit and it's not the fastest scarfer nither the only specs user drgapult is one to.

This post has a menacing ass aura and I can't find how to describe it

There's a looooot of things that make Gholdengo S, here is some from yours truly:
- Its mere presence in the tier makes hazards - and, by extension, hazard stacking - the biggest thing you have to take into account when building a team imo, as Ghold shuts down what would be every VIABLE defogger and spinner thanks to Good as Gold which prevents Defog from removing hazards and walls and it being a Ghost type so it blocks Spin. The exceptions are Tusk and Treads, which are two meta staples due, in part, to Ghold's existence.

ranting

>inb4 uuuuuuuuuh actually tusk is also used because it hits like a truck and actually toedscruel can also do it and actually Talonflame is viable and actually I play defog bulk up power trip roost spe def corv so ur wrong

You either have to use a paradox don or give Boots to your entire team to stand a chance (may be exaggerated, ngl I've never played in OU this gen but I believe I have a good understanding of the game). Glimmora plays into that as it is the best mon we've ever had for hazard stacking playstyles, and it's actually good.
- Dragapult has ''''only'''' 100 SpA compared to Ghold's 133 SpA. It's not even comparable in sheer raw power and makes it near impossible to switch into Specs Shadow Ball. I believe only Clodsire can switch into Specs Gholdengo rather safely if you ignore the potential Trick (Blissey does NOT exist and so does Stall) and look, another reason why it's centralizing
- A pretty good speed stat for Scarf sets backed by the previously mentioned totally-fair-and-balanced™ 133 base SpA makes it a terrifying revenge killer as well.
- If it turns out the opposing Ghold is Nasty Plot, then it's probably too late by the time you realize it and you already lost the game so gg shake my iron hands... except if you play the Sire... again. Wait, there's a running theme here, isn't there...
- good f-ing luck for guessing which set Ghold is running based on team preview alone so have fun guessing wrong and losing a mon for free or outright losing the game to NP. Do consider all the possible weighted mindgames it creates and no I'm not listing them all here it's 3AM here and it's impossible to do anyway.
- oh btw if ghold is running balloon he can ensure he can buy a single free no-spin turn against the dons which is sometimes enough to win entire games, especially if Glimmora was the setter and left a few several little oopsies on your side in only 1 turn.

anyway thank you for listening to my rant xoxo

 

[I am New]

Why cant we bumb gholdengo to S+? that mon is a step above everything else. It makes S great tusk and chi yu more sensible and S- annhilape more sense too. Am I missing something?

 

[Finchinator]

You can begin discussing Cinderace in 24-48 hours as it begins to settle into the metagame. Thanks

 

[Ch0mpD13]

Wait why did Gyarados jump up so highly from previous gens?

 

[Local Dog]

Why cant we bumb gholdengo to S+? that mon is a step above everything else. It makes S great tusk and chi yu more sensible and S- annhilape more sense too. Am I missing something?

S+ tier is for mons that are basically mandatory, where not having one on your team is a disadvantage. Like Primal Groudon in gen 6 and 7 Ubers

 

[Karxrida]

I would personally prefer avoiding any subranks for S. Just not a fan of rank inflation (what's the point of S if you're going to make a mini-S), and it's not like we have a Gen II Snorlax or Primal Groudon running around to justify a "this is undoubtedly the single best Pokémon in the tier and a huge step above the other staples" rank. Gholdengo is good but not that good.

Plus I think Great Tusk might be on Gholdengo's level anyway.

 

[Wolf-X]

Mostly accurate but some mons should IMO be higher or lower.

Floatzel and Barrasqweda while limited to rain are def at least B tier IMO

The S- imo are on level with Gholdengo, they just do different stuff.

I would even argue Tusks is actually even more viable than Gholdengo, this is why: Huge bulk, very nice speed, and huge ATK stat with great typing and coverage stabs, its just more durable and flexible. Though I understand Gholdengo inmunity to statues and ability to block hazards while hitting hard is also extremly valuable.

EQ + CC + Rapid Spin is just too good. Can even sweep in sun easily thanks to protho boost and rapid spin speed boost. Knock Off/Ice Spinner give it enough coverage to deal with many of its main troubles.

Also can run many sets, ranging from more offensive, defensive or utility focused ones.

As many has said Tusks is this gens Landorus-T, and it might actually be better as its more versatile bulky and scary. Imo just an amazing pokemon, cant believe how solid it is.

Hatterene is at least A, thanks to its great bulk, magic bounce properties, scary offensive potential and ability to set up trick room.

Tyranitar and Iron Thorns might be D tier. They dont seem to really have a place in OU meta, ttar lacks sands abusers to become useful and is easily dealt with with almost anything, its main utility might be realiably countering ChiYu, but once its banned this niche will just disappear. Iron Thorns isnt bad but there are just other mons that do its job way better.

Sandy Shocks is at least B if not A-, thanks to its great dual stab and can get the coverage it might need with Tera Fairy/Water

Garganacl at least A+, i dont think there is a need to explain. Huge Bulk, access to recover, crazy good ability and one if not THE most broken move in the tier. Salt Cure is just so damn OP and there is nothing u can do against it. This pokemon can tear down anything that doesnt have some form of consistent recovery.
It can even set up and sweep, and Tera Fairy removes almost all counter play against it, reducing its weaknesses to a joke.

Scream tail should be around B tier, it provides great utility and defense imo.

Killowattrel deserves around C tier, it is strong under rain working as some kind of Thundurus-T and is strong enough for C tier, it hits hard and has nice coverage, but its limited by its fragility and faster checks/hard hitting priority users.


I would also add Toedscruel in C tier, imo people are sleeping on this mon. It has unstoppable spore that ignores abilities like garganacl and gholdengo, good utility, decent bulk and if u avoid the ice weakness the typing is actually decent as its main weaknesses arent very common.

Mostly agree though.