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Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]
- Thread starter Finchinator
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Golduck is defo scary. Its ability to offensively deal with Tera Water Garganacl, Skeledirge and Dondozo that give Floatzel trouble is pretty neat. While Greninja can also do this, Golduck is much faster and has access to NP, both things that differentiate it enough. Golduck is also slightly more bulky than Floatzel so it can take a Sucker Punch if it really needs to.
Gren is this awkward middle child to WW and Golduck. Gren has the ice/grass/psy coverage of golduck but not the raw power of WW, and the same speed issues that make forcing WW out really easy. Sure Gren can say hit rotom W with a strong neutral stab move but WW says “fuck it we ball” and does more clicking pump. And keep in mind this is specs Gren, so either get even weaker or simply always predict if you want to use that stellar coverage.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
244 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash in Rain: 183-216 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I really do not like Gren on rain. It feels like Golduck trying to roleplay as WW too much, despite the fact Golduck is unironically better than WW on rain
Why is everyone talking about Golduck? What changed for it this gen? And why are people wanting to rank it on the VR?
Is this a meme or something or does it actually have a small niche in the meta? Someone explain!
It’s one of the only special Swift Swimmers rn, which is a role it’s normally outclassed at, but it currently doesn’t have competition for its Swift Swim Hydro Pumps.
globally seismitoad, ludicolo and kingdra ded
That’s not quite true either as Golduck also got nasty plot and grass knot this gen. It gives Golduck this insane niche compared to something like Kingdra
Regarding
I'm not entirely sure if I would nom it to be ranked, but I just wanted to discuss its viability. I've been toying around with a SubDD set on ladder:
Haxorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
This set draws inspiration from SubDD Baxcalibur. Just like Baxcalibur, it finds opportunities to set up on passive stuff like Toxapex, Non-boosting variants of Garganacl, Skeledirge, Rotom-Wash, Clodsire, Amoonguss without Foul Play, Slowking, or Torkoal (and others if it Teras to Steel). Tera Steel lets it flip the switch on stuff like Hatterene, Dragonite's Extreme Speed, Baxcalibur's Ice Shard, or Iron Valiant's Moonblast (it doesn't need to Tera Fairy imo because it's not weak to Fighting like Baxcalibur is).
You lose the Ice/Ground move combination that Baxcalibur has, which leaves it more vulnerable to Great Tusk/Ting-Lu/Corviknight.
But you do gain Mold Breaker + pure Dragon typing, which gives it a better match up against Skeledirge and Fire types in general (including some Volcarona variants), and more passive Garganacl sets without needing to Tera. Can perform a bit better against stall teams too with Mold Breaker ignoring Unaware (Haxorus and Baxcalibur tend to struggle with the same threats on stall anyway).
I found pairing it with Magnezone helps it immensely.
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Tera Blast
- Volt Switch
Magnezone traps Corviknight, baits Great Tusk/Ting-Lu, threatens Dondozo and Garganacl, which are typical obstacles for Haxorus.
Generally speaking, Baxcalibur is usually the better option thanks to its better move combination and its better defenses. Baxcalibur is also much more self-sufficient whereas Haxorus requires more support to work. But I found that Haxorus can play decently if you want to role compress something similar + something can threaten fatter teams. Haxorus has other options like Swords Dance (prolly competes with Garchomp here, but Mold Breaker can set it apart. SD > DD would mean worse matchup against offense, better matchup against fatter teams) and other moves at its disposal (Taunt, Close Combat, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, whatever), so there might be unexplored potential with what it can do.
I'm not really the best at articulating and I'm not the best player; so I just wanted to provide some food for thought. Someone more skilled than I am can probably showcase what it can do better than I can.
I'm not entirely sure if I would nom it to be ranked, but I just wanted to discuss its viability. I've been toying around with a SubDD set on ladder:
Haxorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Substitute
This set draws inspiration from SubDD Baxcalibur. Just like Baxcalibur, it finds opportunities to set up on passive stuff like Toxapex, Non-boosting variants of Garganacl, Skeledirge, Rotom-Wash, Clodsire, Amoonguss without Foul Play, Slowking, or Torkoal (and others if it Teras to Steel). Tera Steel lets it flip the switch on stuff like Hatterene, Dragonite's Extreme Speed, Baxcalibur's Ice Shard, or Iron Valiant's Moonblast (it doesn't need to Tera Fairy imo because it's not weak to Fighting like Baxcalibur is).
You lose the Ice/Ground move combination that Baxcalibur has, which leaves it more vulnerable to Great Tusk/Ting-Lu/Corviknight.
But you do gain Mold Breaker + pure Dragon typing, which gives it a better match up against Skeledirge and Fire types in general (including some Volcarona variants), and more passive Garganacl sets without needing to Tera. Can perform a bit better against stall teams too with Mold Breaker ignoring Unaware (Haxorus and Baxcalibur tend to struggle with the same threats on stall anyway).
I found pairing it with Magnezone helps it immensely.
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Tera Blast
- Volt Switch
Magnezone traps Corviknight, baits Great Tusk/Ting-Lu, threatens Dondozo and Garganacl, which are typical obstacles for Haxorus.
Generally speaking, Baxcalibur is usually the better option thanks to its better move combination and its better defenses. Baxcalibur is also much more self-sufficient whereas Haxorus requires more support to work. But I found that Haxorus can play decently if you want to role compress something similar + something can threaten fatter teams. Haxorus has other options like Swords Dance (prolly competes with Garchomp here, but Mold Breaker can set it apart. SD > DD would mean worse matchup against offense, better matchup against fatter teams) and other moves at its disposal (Taunt, Close Combat, Poison Jab, Rock Slide, whatever), so there might be unexplored potential with what it can do.
I'm not really the best at articulating and I'm not the best player; so I just wanted to provide some food for thought. Someone more skilled than I am can probably showcase what it can do better than I can.
Replay 1 - Around turn 16, Tera Steel Haxorus sets up on Hatterene, then finishes the game after Great Tusk has been worn down.
Replay 2 - Around turn 10, Haxorus sets up on Rotom-Wash and weakens a good chunk of the opposing team so that Magnezone can finish the job.
Replay 3 - Battle against a fatter team. Cripple key threats so that Haxorus can have a field day.
Replay 4 - Around turn 13, Tera Steel Haxorus gets a surprise kill on Iron Valiant, then cleans. (Baxcalibur may not be able to accomplish this as well, since it doesn't really have the luxury of going Tera Steel, given its weakness to Fighting)
Replay 5 - Haxorus sets up on Toxapex/Skeledirge and wins the game after Great Tusk is removed
Replay 2 - Around turn 10, Haxorus sets up on Rotom-Wash and weakens a good chunk of the opposing team so that Magnezone can finish the job.
Replay 3 - Battle against a fatter team. Cripple key threats so that Haxorus can have a field day.
Replay 4 - Around turn 13, Tera Steel Haxorus gets a surprise kill on Iron Valiant, then cleans. (Baxcalibur may not be able to accomplish this as well, since it doesn't really have the luxury of going Tera Steel, given its weakness to Fighting)
Replay 5 - Haxorus sets up on Toxapex/Skeledirge and wins the game after Great Tusk is removed
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It has Nasty Plot now for one.
Probably not the set for which it has been ranked, but Restalk Wo-Chien with Knock Off and Body Press has high durability and checks lost of threats, like Floatzel (very few things switch into Tera Water Floatzel, Pdef Wo Chien is one of them) or Kingambit, while knocking items. Has good amount of Tera options to check different things. Used this Mon a lot, it works.
There's been a couple Wo-Chien stalls popping up in tours lately and they seem functional enough. It provides the rare Knock, Leech Seed+Protect to wear stuff down, and its defensive typing is somewhat usable thanks to resistances to Ghost and Water.
Decent chip that can break Life Aura and comes in M code. Not the best, but Beast Lock-On or Chip Charging makes it more than usable outside of that. Better than the other garbage in D.
Static can be really funny and it's way easier to hit than Tornado when fully powered, but using it requires filling yourself with bugs and mandates BugFix. While BugFix is practically a staple, there are too many times where you're holding onto it waiting for a good Static play but it never showing up. You can make an argument to stay in B purely due to Dust Chute in Falzar, but that's still not worth higher than C imo.
Super underrated tbh. M code, easy to hit thanks to Slash Cross, and inflicts HP Bug even after your opponent BugFixes themselves. Should be used more.
Reflector, on the other hand, is super overrated. Trying to guess when your opponent is going to do anything is way too inconsistent, it only hits in your row, and it's not a dimming chip. Just max out on AntiDmg and Invis.
Another overrated chip. Against Gregar players you'll want to hit Slash Cross, and Slash might be camping the front row where this won't hit. Falzar players have two sources of Air Shoes to not care about the cracked panels. And ElementMan * exists for removing Sanctuary. Main thing JustcOne has going for it is J code, which is one of the best codes in the game so it's easy to slap into a folder.
I don't care if it's Z code, taking half damage without being forced to camp one panel is dumb. This has saved games.
Still think this is too gimmicky to pull off consistently. Yes, panel locking the opponent for so long can end the game, but setting it up and keeping it is a crapshoot.
Just because people haven't been using BDT recently doesn't mean it's stopped being one of the scariest Gigas to face. I know I mentioned Dust Chute not being perfect earlier, but it potentially giving a turn 2 BDT shapes how the rest of a match is played. The chip is far too influential to ignore.
Happy April Fools btw.
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Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
I know this is april fools but now I'm curious. Are these even pokemon in the first place? With how dumb the paradox mons names are, I don't even know which is a pokemon and which isn't
Wo-Chien is actually quite bulky when not hit by super effective moves. Leech seed makes good progress for it given its bulk, and its counters dont like knock off
sorry for necropost but this is where my thread defaulted to and this line in particular aged pretty funnily in context of "usage > VR"Kingambit I don't think is S ranked, it's not 2 of the top Pokémon
A- -> A/A+Incredible, incredible physical wall with a good offensive presence, only let down by it's natural typing not being amazing - but not only is it still a genuinely good typing, but tera fairy lets it circumvent that issue.
A- -> B+A decently fast, decently strong ghost type, that can bait in mons and deal good damage to them thanks to its ability, sounds great right? Well zoroark is incredibly frail, and along with this zoroark's disguises are even more frail, asseveral of the mons it would otherwise be good at disguising as either have a different rocks weakness to it, or an ability that zoroark can't replicate,two things which will immediately give it away.
wait shit I need a joke
UR -> S+
for C tier, this thing fell off so hard in this gen Ok, I'll bite, what's the ev spread on the most common, bulky variant of Wo Chein? Maybe for knock/seed/protect/ruination/stun spore/whatever?
Edit:Had a low level match with Wo-Chein in. I'm convinced!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1834958790-7d9viwtepzcc54yr6ck1dgy0hnupaabpw
Settled with 252/100/156 defensive spread, Bold, though I don't know if that's optimal.
Edit:Had a low level match with Wo-Chein in. I'm convinced!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1834958790-7d9viwtepzcc54yr6ck1dgy0hnupaabpw
Settled with 252/100/156 defensive spread, Bold, though I don't know if that's optimal.
I'm wondering, is any of these Pokemon in a certain tier just because of certain moves?
Like is Kingambit in S+ tier because it gets sucker punch which bypass its horrible speed leading to a threat in the OU Metagame?
Like is Kingambit in S+ tier because it gets sucker punch which bypass its horrible speed leading to a threat in the OU Metagame?
Sandy Shocks is probably D tier because it may have 101 speed but it still gets outspeed by threats like Garchomp(barely),Iron Threads,Greninja,and Meowscarda. Also it gets walled pretty bad by Toedscruel(not OU but still a good example) which in turn can can take out it because of its meh-ish bulk.
It may be kinda fast and hit hard but it is not fast enough to sweep,and it is not bulky enough to stay in the match. Hope this answers your question.
They're Battle Chips from Mega Man Battle Network 6. The series copied Pokémon and had two versions for each game.
Also all the info I posted was legit and I wasn't BSing anything lol.
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B- -> B+
C+ -> B-/B
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B-/B -> B+
B -> B+/A-
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A- -> A
A+ -> S-
A -> A-/B+You replied to a comment that was literally from december (Chi-Yu meta, for reference)... Shocks is currently B Rank and a very legitimate option as a special attackers and the downsides you mentioned hold it back a bit but don't make it unviable at all. Toedscruel is also a mon you kind of only see on suicide lead sets so it's not very relevant that it would wall Shocks, better examples of things that give it trouble are Ting-Lu and bulky Grasses (and even then, the best one, Amoonguss, isn't even a Ground resist).
Not trying to be harsh but I think you should lurk a bit more, your comment doesn't exactly reek of experience with the OU metagame or the way the forums work (I'm also pretty sure double commenting isn't allowed? or at the very least heavily frowned upon)
I don't want to completely derail the thread, but since this has come up again, is it really necessary that we address new players this way? I really thought everyone had moved past this. What is this user supposed to gain from lurking more? There are plenty of resources (SQSA, sample teams, Strategy Dex) they could access or discussion threads (metagame thread, good cores, bazaar, etc.) they could participate in with their current level of knowledge. Maybe if you start referring people to those instead of laughing at their posts and telling them to lurk more then people will actually want to stick around long enough to become better at the game. Also not to be harsh but it appears you've been a member of the site hardly past a year. Doesn't much give you claim to veteran status here.
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