Metagame SV RU Metagame Discussion (Moltres-Galar banned, see post #104)

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I literally made a post a couple of days ago here praising that fella XD and it is indeed a very versatile mon, only held back by its speed tier. I also wanna give some credit to its Alolan counterpart
Sorry I hadn't seen it.

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I'm here again to talk about decidueye (ostrich shape), this time in more depth. (I'm not bragging about the pokemon, I just want to say how good it is, and my previous comment wasn't very deep.

As I said before, the versatility of this ostrich is great, being able to fit in several functions and in several types of team, all depending on what the player prefers or needs most.

Some simpler but very efficient sets that I think for this Pokémon:

Set 1 (Decidueye-Hisui) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn / Knock off
- Triple Arrows
- Leaf Blade
- Roost

Set 2 (Decidueye-Hisui) @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Set 3 (Decidueye-Hisui) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Set 4 (Decidueye-Hisui) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 4 SpD / 84 Spe
Impish Nature
- Triple Arrows
- Defog
- Roost
- Knock Off

The first consists of being fast enough to pass Bisharp without investments in speed, and the rest investing in attack and HP for a good attack and being as tanky as possible, roost to help keep alive.



The second comes down to, hitting your opponent, and thanks to the vast ostrich movepool, and difficult to choose which attacks to choose, I put the most obvious ones, but it has brave bird, triple arrows, shadow sneak, shadow claw, sucker punch.



The third could be called the 2.2 set, after all the only thing that really changes is the item. I know interactions change, but that's another question.



The fourth, and last one I put up, was a set thought up by a colleague of mine, he thought what defensive Decidueye-hisui would look like and created that, to me it seems to be solid enough to be used. It has speed to pass bisharp, coating on HP and defense, roost to help stay alive, knock off to take items from other pokemon, and defog for . . . He didn't explain the defog.



Basically it all depends on what the player prefers, are there other sets? Probably yes, but I boiled down to these because they were the most consistent ones I saw and faced
 
One more silly set that's worked out pretty well so far:

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Iron Defense

Enam-T at home is real, y'all, powered by the sheer stupidity that is Tera Fairy Draining Kiss, which buys you time to get some extra CM boosts and/or to break through bulky resists. You can afford to be aggressive with boosting up because once you get to +2/+2/+2 with Tera Fairy, Draining Kiss provides enough recovery to outpace the damage from:

Gyro Ball from 252HP/252+SpD Bronzong
Seismic Toss from Blissey/Chansey
Sludge Bomb from Salazzle/Dragalge
Iron Head from Bisharp
Specs Armarogue Armor Cannon
Overheat from Heatom
Gunk Shot from Grafaiai
Meteor Mash from LO Lucario (after an ID, technically you outpace the damage with just Tera Fairy)
+1 Orthworm Iron Tail

and plenty of other things I'm not gonna take the time to calc.

If you're feeling extra spicy, you could consider running LO, which comes *this close* to making up for the recoil with the extra damage/recovery, but having that extra breathing room on setup turns can make a big difference.

Likes being paired with Heatom to pivot around and eat Steel/Grass/Ground attacks pre-tera. I also quite like the combo with Alomomola and/or Wo Chien to provide extra recovery via Leech Seed/Wish and to eat Water-type attacks.

A few replays this time:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1924163780
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1924167141-q587962ap2nacqjxuy8mw2dmy23qbikpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1924097445-24muy1xufbelu0mcjv7ut7c2lokrtqnpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1923677340-deb53n1wwylvli8vux6raukq8jo2fewpw (lost this one to flinch hax, but you can see how it would have played out otherwise)
i'm still kind of new to this tier but i've been enjoying this set a lot. built a few teams with it and got to about 1500 on ladder. there are so many things that pair well with it. these fun little ideas are what make this tier fun tho imo.
 
A couple of fun cores I've been messing with:

:Dragalge: @ :Black Sludge:
Ability: Poison Touch
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Dragon Tail
- Venoshock / Sludge Bomb
- Protect

+

:Alomomola: @ :Rocky Helmet:
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Def / 36 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Whirlpool
- Mirror Coat
- Protect

These two together create maximum frustration. Dragalge spreads poison with Tspikes (and Poison Touch Dragon Tail for boots/flying `mons). Alomomola traps things with Whirlpool to keep them from switching out and doubling up on the passive damage. Both spam Protect to let the damage wrack up. `Mola runs Rocky Helmet to further frustrate physical `mons and/or things trying to u-turn out and Mirror Coat to punish volt switches/generic special attackers (the 36 SpD EVs ensure you survive a Thunderbolt from 252 SpA Kilowattrel/Rotoms).

Tera Grass on Alomomola to cover Water's two natural weaknesses. Tera Poison on Dragalge is a big shrug, but it lets you keep Black Sludge over Lefties (punishing anything that tries to Trick it) and makes you it can always absorb TSpikes on your own side of the field. Sludge Bomb over Venoshock is perfectly viable, but you'll be clicking it rarely enough that the extra oomph can be a real difference maker.

Try it! You'll get cursed at by kids!

On the offensive side, I've had a lot of fun the past couple days with this Speedy Water Spam tandem:

:Barraskewda: @ :Life Orb:
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Close Combat
- Poison Jab / Crunch
- Aqua Jet

+

:Inteleon: @ :Choice Scarf:
Ability: Sniper
Tera Type: Grass / Electric / Fairy?
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- U-turn
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast

Skewda isn't particularly interesting. It's fast, it hits hard, it has some interesting coverage options. LO > Band mostly for the option to click Aqua Jet late game if your opponent tries to revenge you with priority or a scarf `mon.

Modest Scarf Inteleon is a bit more out of the box. It may seem silly, but it's been putting in work for me. Standard Inteleon suffers a lot by being slower than Kilowattrel, Noivern, and Weavile -- not to mention other scarf/boosting `mons. Modest Inteleon hits the same speed as +Nature base 105s -- a very solid tier for a Scarfer -- while getting a non-trivial boost to its damage. As a strong special attacker, Inteleon doesn't suffer *too* much by running Tera Blast as pure coverage with the option to click the Funny Button to turn the tides on an unfavorable MU. Electric and Grass both add an option against other Water Types, while Fairy is just a fantastic typing (though RU has a shocking number of fairy-type options to go around).
 

EviGaro

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I actually really do like Scarf Inteleon as well, but personally I think Modest doesn't really do it justice. At that rate you probably would be best with just specs if you are more looking to break.

The key appeal of Scarf Inteleon for me is how uniquely fast it is. Scarf Salazzle does that too, but well Scarf Salazzle takes too much from rocks and has issues revenging stuff sometimes. With Timid you are for sure faster than: +speed +2 Cloyster, jolly +2 Drednaw, Scarf Pawmot, Scarf Grafaiai, +2 Armarouge (that one feels very important to me). You also tie with +2 adamant Revavroom, which is something. If you are lacking in power a bit, which I can get, tera water is actually pretty good in my experience, giving it a stronger tool to do its job as a revenge mon cleanier. Personally I don't really see tera as that big, scarf doesn't quite break to begin with. But it does have a chance late game with tera water torrent! Also I would advocate for Surf because missing with your scarfer in 2023 is scary....

But yeah, very fun mon, I agree, one of the more consistent at its role from the options I did not expect starting this month.
 
The key appeal of Scarf Inteleon for me is how uniquely fast it is. Scarf Salazzle does that too, but well Scarf Salazzle takes too much from rocks and has issues revenging stuff sometimes. With Timid you are for sure faster than: +speed +2 Cloyster, jolly +2 Drednaw, Scarf Pawmot, Scarf Grafaiai, +2 Armarouge (that one feels very important to me). You also tie with +2 adamant Revavroom, which is something. If you are lacking in power a bit, which I can get, tera water is actually pretty good in my experience, giving it a stronger tool to do its job as a revenge mon cleanier. Personally I don't really see tera as that big, scarf doesn't quite break to begin with. But it does have a chance late game with tera water torrent! Also I would advocate for Surf because missing with your scarfer in 2023 is scary....
Yeah, you could go with the actually viable set. The one that doesn't leave you crossing your fingers that an opposing Armarogue/Cloyster is running a neutral speed nature. The one that actually has superior damage output over time and the reliability to perform its role instead of trying to wear two hats at once. But then you wouldn't be meme-ing!

As for running Specs if you want to break, I would say that Specs Inteleon is practically unviable because of the ubiquity of faster `mons (like the ones we each mentioned) that can abuse its frailty. Modest Scarf Hydro Pump is only about 10% weaker than Timid Specs Surf (it is, in fact, exactly as strong as Timid Tera Water Surf). That's the only reason I would advocate for Modest Scarf (with Pump) despite it being absolutely less optimal. Its niche is that it can start cleaning a little earlier than Timid, but that 80% accuracy is, indeed, a nightmare -- which is why the (meme) core with LO Skewda almost-sorta-kinda works by having a backup cleaner to finish the job after shared checks have been weakened (I haven't built super intentionally around it, but early testing peaked around 1350, so...not great).
 
So, before the shifts happen, we got a little update regarding Fling mechanics, where Big Nugget now dos 130 damage. This is the same as Iron Ball, but without the speed decrease drawback. Why do I bring this up? Because of this fella:
1693513598580.png

Weavile (M) @ Big Nugget
Ability: Pickpocket
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fling
- Ice Spinner
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard

You now have an stronger dark STAB than Knock off for 1 turn, while also having the ability of disrupting the opponent with Pickpoket later on (and maybe fling some other items? idk I need to see the effects of the commonly used ones). I went with tera dark because:

+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Weavile Night Slash vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 444-524 (92.3 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Weavile Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 384-454 (95 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

(night slash with 130 bp is in place of fling because for some reason it doesn't register accordingly on the calculator ;-;)
This set is mostly a fun tool to surprise the opponent, but I'm genuinely happy Weavile has another option for dark STAB XD


UPDATE:

1693581857180.png


Goodbye, sweet prince. You will be missed ;-; In other news, we got this a$$hole XD:
1693581913360.png
(Overquill also dropped)

Specs tinted lens with is signature move as a late game cleaner sounds really good, though I wanna try sheer force sets with agility as well :wo:
 
Last edited:
So, before the shifts happen, we got a little update regarding Fling mechanics, where Big Nugget now dos 130 damage. This is the same as Iron Ball, but without the speed decrease drawback. Why do I bring this up? Because of this fella:
View attachment 547171
Weavile (M) @ Big Nugget
Ability: Pickpocket
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fling
- Ice Spinner
- Swords Dance
- Ice Shard

You now have an stronger dark STAB than Knock off for 1 turn, while also having the ability of disrupting the opponent with Pickpoket later on (and maybe fling some other items? idk I need to see the effects of the commonly used ones). I went with tera dark because:

+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Weavile Night Slash vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 444-524 (92.3 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Dark Weavile Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 384-454 (95 - 112.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

(night slash with 130 bp is in place of fling because for some reason it doesn't register accordingly on the calculator ;-;)
This set is mostly a fun tool to surprise the opponent, but I'm genuinely happy Weavile has another option for dark STAB XD


UPDATE:

View attachment 547430

Goodbye, sweet prince. You will be missed ;-; In other news, we got this a$$hole XD:
View attachment 547431 (Overquill also dropped)

Specs tinted lens with is signature move as a late game cleaner sounds really good, though I wanna try sheer force sets with agility as well :wo:
Braviary-Hisui could be busted honestly, wouldn't be surprised if it went to RUBL

But i'm sure it will be fun balanced or not

Also UU stole chesnaught from RU for the 3rd gen, this time I hope we get it back at some point
 
torkoal had to rise just as I was planning to build a ru sun team smh

anyways, what sets do you think braviary hisui would run and what teammates would be good picks to pair along?
 
We are lucky in Ru that Torkoal rise the same time as Tytar bc if Torkoal didn't we would have a big problem. Sun was annoyed by the best mon taking away his sun
 

C0nfiden1 0yster

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is a Pre-Contributor
RUPL Champion
hi, wanted to share some thoughts and my experience with the meta.

gonna share some teams first tho:

1693785001983.png
This is the one of the first teams i built when the drops dropped and its still quite good. People assume lead azelf, which is honestly ass, especially with tyranitar in the tier meaning crunch + sand kills it t1, so i ran an offensive rocks set which can bluff as a lead and punish by leaving big holes in the opposing team. MMQ and bish are IMO HO staples, just because they stop opposing offense really well due to their defensive utilities, all while providing a sweeping and even breaking threat. I saw a variation with lucario > bisharp but I think bisharp provides more. I think Lucario in general is a bad pick as other fighting-type options and other steel-type options can provide the threat lucario brings while giving much more defensive utility. Lucario also has unfavorable mus into slowbro/glowbro and mmq. In ss, lucario was able to take advantage of BB crobat, but in sv it has to worry abt flame vern and i also think defensive tera hurts lucario sweeping stuff. at the back of the team i put a cloyster to provide a water resist into opposing rain. Special cloyster is, and has been for most of this generation, better than phys since it makes better use of tera blast, esp into things like slowbro. I use tera ghost to hit slowbro/glowbro, bronzing, and probably other things and to give cloyster a very favorable mu into slither wing. The tera dragon on the thundy is kinda of a meme but it comes clutch sometimes ig, i think when i designed the team i just wanted the extra resists as opposed to tera ground or something.
1693785822651.png
obviously torkoal has left and sun has died, but I think this team is super cool. Only gw used it in ssnl and got a whatever mu. I noticed ppl trying to put slither on sun I realized that although slither benefits from the sun, slither itself doesn't really support sun and this team was my attempt to make slither-less sun. Bonnet is a really cool and kinda slept option. its a bit pressed on moves since u kinda need cc for chien but it still has really good bulk and is hella strong. MMQ and Revavroom make this more aggressive as I also felt a lot of suns on ladder lacked in aggression, usually trying to fit shit like muds.
1693786180405.png
Yama was one of the freed rubls that I was a bit skeptical should be allowed, but after toying with BD to little success I went with the approach of Bulk Up instead. I found a lot of success with it since it takes advantage of chien and some of the passive fattys ppl insist are good. Here, paired with chien, makes two good pokemon that actually want to run knock off, which would allow spikes to really take advantage. Yama has sweeping potential with tera steel bullet punches too, making it a formidable wincon. I decided boots typh was really good as it blocked common spinners like forretress and tsareena. I went with flame/wisp/inf-parade/shadow ball for the moveset. I didn't like relying on focus and rather just wisp the dark types since they are all physical anyway, and it would pair well with inf-parade. Ill talk a bit more abt this pokemon below. I went with a wo-chien forre core since we don't have options, but these two offer a lot between them. Chien is a really good knock user, targeting birds like kilo and vern, as well as knocking boots off slither and opposing chien to make full advantage of the hazard stack. forre isn't a great spinner and is exploitable itself, but its a steel type with spin and spikes. Its the role compression this team needs and also offers support into mmq and bish. Diancie gives a very good stealth rocker and helps into the annoying noivern. I went with earth power over encore/drain kiss to bop toxtricity which would be annoying. Kilo offers speed control, ground immune, volt immune, and a kilo check. Pivots well into yama and typh.
1693787198731.png
Toxtricity is another rubl I didn't think should have been released. I think boots is its best set as having the choice between moves lets you be less prediction reliant and it makes a lot of progress without specs. Making a volturn core with slither is always going to be enticing in the builder. The two have a fair amount of defensive utility and slither offers the "speed" through first impression. forrechien makes a return bc compression. Scarf krook offers cleaning and a ground type and noivern gives key resists and supports the volturn nicely with its limited switch ins, uturn, and speed. I actually don't really like this team because it doesn't have a kilo to check kilo and I need the noiverns resists. In play it def ends up a bit flimsy, but I suppose that's natural with a more aggressive team? giannis actually brought this to slam finals, I heard he made some tweaks like toxic on toxt and edge>rocks krook, so ig theres that. I think sturdier teams with a similar concept are possible.
1693787923076.png
Brazil used ID slowbro and I really liked it since it went really well into chien, which kinda made cm really ass. Put a kilo so I don't lose to kilo and gives me smth that is naturally fast. Blissey is slept on I think. Its obv used on some stalls but I think it can work on balances like this. It being able to take special attacks reduces that burden on the steel type, in this case klefki, but on most teams will probably be forre. Hecidueye is a good option, really spammable moves in knock and trip arrows. My only issue with it is that its a fighting type that kinda struggles into bish, which is bad. its also susceptible to gunk from krook which is another negative. I made this a few days ago so it didn't get used in ruwc or any tours but in the handful of tests it felt strong so I thought id include it.

i have more teams but I think that's all ill share for now

now building in this tier is a really awful experience. I found myself going back to the same cores, simply because I felt as if using otherwise would mean using sub-optimal pokemon.

Like for example, u see that for volt immunes and only like kilo and scarf krook, everything else just isn't good into volters, and even then kilo and krook aren't great either. I see ppl use mudsdale and it kinda baffles me. This pokemon for me is passive and just ruins team momentum as the oppo usually has a great number of options to switch into it. it doesn't work on fat either since lefties is its only recovery and its weak to spikes/tspikes. Ig its a bulky ground type except that it losesto toxt and rotom and is iffy into kilo, only really working into pawmot. The only thing this pokemon is good into is krook which is a good niche since that pokemon is still dumb, but it doesn't justify its grand use.

This dilemma is present in other areas too, but that kinda sums up the current sv experience. the dex is too small for lower tiers to have multiple options, which i think we'll just have to accept for now.

There are also some super restrictive pokemon that IMO need to be banned.

:kilowattrel:
i believe this is the most oppressive pokemon in the tier. There really arent any genuinely good kilowattrel checks and can deal with it throughout the entirety of the game. Ftr, im referring to a t-bolt/cane/volt switch/ roost set, roostless is awful, tera blast is unneeded, and volt is usually fine so u-turn isn't needed. Now yes, there are some pokemon that can take multiple hits, for this example, diancie. Diancie in theory is a good kilo check since it resists cane, can force kilo out, and has the special bulk to work with thunderbolt. BUT, u realize that t-bolt into volt does 35-40%, then couple this with diancie's vulnerability to hazards which are not difficult to keep up in this tier, then also coupled with diancies lack of recovery besides lefties and that kilo check just gets run over very quickly. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 I just kinda pulled these replays from the last 2 pages of ruwc and in all of the replays kilo breaks through teams, most if not all of which have a considerable amount of "checks" to kilo. in one of the replays it 1v1's a fucking sylveon LOL. There was another where there was a bronzong and dragalge at near max hp, it takes down the zong and then tera steels to force out the drag. Those replays show how supposed "checks" like bronzong, toxtricity, diancie, dragalge, muds, glowbro, rotom, and other stuff just get easily chipped and then knocked out, leaving the opponent to the mercy of hurricane. if there is anything u take from this post, please just consider how insane kilowattrel is. :toxtricity: just gonna lump this guy in this debacle too, still stupid please ban.

:typhlosion-hisui:
in theory this thing is only checked by like blissey lol. all of the dark-types of the tier lose to wisp and they all drop to flame anyway. Diancie isn't an amazing check since after it gets wisped, it drops to inf-parade. someone also used iron head on one of their typhs LOL. Now there are other pokemon that have similar issues of not having switch-ins but typh has enough speed and defensive utility to get onto the field consistently, esp when we are forced to use like forretress as our steel, which is just asking typh to switch in. Playing against this pokemon feels impossible.

:azelf::pawmot::wo-chien::armarouge::bisharp::slither-wing::articuno-galar:
I think people should also consider looking into the above pokemon when discussing tiering too. While personally id argue chien and pawmot as healthy presences, I've heard ppl complain, hence why i put them in the list. I think azelf is just too unproven to really justify any tiering action, i can see how certain sets can be kinda bonkers. I honestly feel the same about garticuno, but that feels a bit more proven. i don't really get amarouge either, but ppl have complained. bish i think is really insane with tera. idt i can really prove it as broken but if its the right tera, it does just kinda win, adding another pokemon to the list of setup tera guessing games. Slither is honestly just an enabler of brokens like kilo. I still think it should be banned.

i wanted to talk a bit more into some meta picks, but after i vote for a vr slate, ill just explain those in a post whenever that thread happens.
 
View attachment 547431

Specs tinted lens with is signature move as a late game cleaner sounds really good, though I wanna try sheer force sets with agility as well :wo:
So, having used this mon a bit I can conclude that it's too damn slow to do anything vs offense and it's defensive typing too bad to really break fat cores ;-; Which is a shame, since I had high hopes for this fella when I saw it here. This is what I've been using:

Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility/Calm Mind
- Esper Wing
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave

I went with sheer force because you have perfect coverage on the entire tier with just 3 moves, all of them boosted by the ability (yes, even esper wing for some reason). The problem is that, even with timid, you're not outspeeding anything, but going modest means the esper wing boosts don't really do much. The boosting option is up to team composition, but honestly the tier is too hostile towards slow psychic types to really have opportunities to set up.

I haven't lost all hope with the mon though. I still feel like there's some merit to Calm mind + Esper wing, though maybe with some bulkier spreads to compensate for your lackluster typing.
 
So, having used this mon a bit I can conclude that it's too damn slow to do anything vs offense and it's defensive typing too bad to really break fat cores ;-; Which is a shame, since I had high hopes for this fella when I saw it here. This is what I've been using:

Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility/Calm Mind
- Esper Wing
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave

I went with sheer force because you have perfect coverage on the entire tier with just 3 moves, all of them boosted by the ability (yes, even esper wing for some reason). The problem is that, even with timid, you're not outspeeding anything, but going modest means the esper wing boosts don't really do much. The boosting option is up to team composition, but honestly the tier is too hostile towards slow psychic types to really have opportunities to set up.

I haven't lost all hope with the mon though. I still feel like there's some merit to Calm mind + Esper wing, though maybe with some bulkier spreads to compensate for your lackluster typing.
On a Sheer Force set, it's better to just use Psychic. You're not getting the speed boost from Esper Wing and Psychic has more BP
 
So, having used this mon a bit I can conclude that it's too damn slow to do anything vs offense and it's defensive typing too bad to really break fat cores ;-; Which is a shame, since I had high hopes for this fella when I saw it here. This is what I've been using:

Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility/Calm Mind
- Esper Wing
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave

I went with sheer force because you have perfect coverage on the entire tier with just 3 moves, all of them boosted by the ability (yes, even esper wing for some reason). The problem is that, even with timid, you're not outspeeding anything, but going modest means the esper wing boosts don't really do much. The boosting option is up to team composition, but honestly the tier is too hostile towards slow psychic types to really have opportunities to set up.

I haven't lost all hope with the mon though. I still feel like there's some merit to Calm mind + Esper wing, though maybe with some bulkier spreads to compensate for your lackluster typing.
Personally tinted lens is probably better in most cases, as a lot of pokemon have trouble stomaching repeated tinted lens hits even if you are slow to get going, and you want that esper wing boost since the speed you get is crazy valuable. Tinted lens braviary sounds really scary to play against in general, and I can't wait to see how it settles.
 
On a Sheer Force set, it's better to just use Psychic. You're not getting the speed boost from Esper Wing and Psychic has more BP
I did realize that after playing a bit today :smogonbird: yeah, Psychic is better in Sheer Force sets.

Personally tinted lens is probably better in most cases, as a lot of pokemon have trouble stomaching repeated tinted lens hits even if you are slow to get going, and you want that esper wing boost since the speed you get is crazy valuable. Tinted lens braviary sounds really scary to play against in general, and I can't wait to see how it settles.
After trying it for a bit, I'm not really impressed atm. It has the same issues as Sheer Force + you're weaker overall into most team comps. Also, you need to run timid to outspeed base 120's like Inteleon at +1. If you're running a damage boosting item instead of boots, you can't really make progress against the opponent. And again, you're already hitting most stuff for neutral anyway, so tinted lens doesn't come into play that often.
I still need to build a team that supports bulky cm + esper wing accordingly, so not all hope is lost yet:wo:
 
I am completely adrift without Helmet Alomomola around as a defensive glue `mon for me. Looking back, I see it juuust missed the cutoff to stay UU after their "new toy syndrome" month, so it's no surprise that UU took it back, but there's nothing around that even kind of replicates its role. Slowbro is the closest thing on paper -- physical bulk, Regenerator, recovery -- but it plays completely differently (positives: Future Sight! Instant recovery! Better Damage! Negatives: No Trapping/passive damage, no Wish support, lower overall bulk) and, more importantly, its typing is straight awful into the tier's physical attackers outside of rain `mons, Revavroom, and Lucario. Too many threats running around with Dark, Bug, and Ghost STAB/Coverage, making that second type a massive liability.

Helmet Palossand can do some of what `Mola did, and it's probably the best Slither Wing switch-in we're gonna get for now, but it still hates the number of Knock Off users around and needs to tera to win the rain MU that `Mola basically soloed (not that Rain is especially good in RU). PhysDef Belibolt also puts in some work, aided by the fact that Soak steals STAB from Ground type switch-ins that want to click EQ, but we've got multiple highly viable Volt Absorb `mons running around right now, so you can't safely run a set of Slack Off/Soak/Parabolic Charge/Volt Switch, and you really want all four of those. Also: no Regenerator, so running Rocky Helmet is much bigger sacrifice on both `mons with hazards everywhere.

Anybody have a lifeline for me?

As for the new drops:

Been playing a lot with Brav-H the past couple of days, and, yeah, it's not a tier-destroying menace, to put it lightly. It's hurt a lot by the number of strong Dark Types in the tier, which make Specs Tinted Lens Esper Wing a significantly less attractive option. That, in turn, reduces the number of guessing games your opponent has to make about your set, which makes it that much harder to get off an Agility or a CM. On Sheer Force sets, I've honestly had my best luck running it as a dedicated anti-fat `mon with Roost + 3 Attacks. Tinted Lens could also make it into a silly Stored Power sweeper on HO with CM + Agility + Stored Power + Gleam, but with no Light Clay (praise be), Screens HO is no where near as dangerous as it is in OU.

I'm also really liking Overqwill as an alternative to Krookodile (Intimidate + taunt + hazards sets, obviously). Krook has the advantage in terms of speed and offensive STABs, but Overqwill's typing has its own benefits and the option to pick the hazard it runs (or to run two). No opinion on offensive sets yet, but it does have some good tools there (SD and Aqua Jet stand out the most off the bat).
 
I am completely adrift without Helmet Alomomola around as a defensive glue `mon for me. Looking back, I see it juuust missed the cutoff to stay UU after their "new toy syndrome" month, so it's no surprise that UU took it back, but there's nothing around that even kind of replicates its role. Slowbro is the closest thing on paper -- physical bulk, Regenerator, recovery -- but it plays completely differently (positives: Future Sight! Instant recovery! Better Damage! Negatives: No Trapping/passive damage, no Wish support, lower overall bulk) and, more importantly, its typing is straight awful into the tier's physical attackers outside of rain `mons, Revavroom, and Lucario. Too many threats running around with Dark, Bug, and Ghost STAB/Coverage, making that second type a massive liability.

Helmet Palossand can do some of what `Mola did, and it's probably the best Slither Wing switch-in we're gonna get for now, but it still hates the number of Knock Off users around and needs to tera to win the rain MU that `Mola basically soloed (not that Rain is especially good in RU). PhysDef Belibolt also puts in some work, aided by the fact that Soak steals STAB from Ground type switch-ins that want to click EQ, but we've got multiple highly viable Volt Absorb `mons running around right now, so you can't safely run a set of Slack Off/Soak/Parabolic Charge/Volt Switch, and you really want all four of those. Also: no Regenerator, so running Rocky Helmet is much bigger sacrifice on both `mons with hazards everywhere.

Anybody have a lifeline for me?
have you considered Vaporeon? i mean it doenst have regenerator but outside of it should be able to do everything alomomola can?
 
I am completely adrift without Helmet Alomomola around as a defensive glue `mon for me. Looking back, I see it juuust missed the cutoff to stay UU after their "new toy syndrome" month, so it's no surprise that UU took it back, but there's nothing around that even kind of replicates its role. Slowbro is the closest thing on paper -- physical bulk, Regenerator, recovery -- but it plays completely differently (positives: Future Sight! Instant recovery! Better Damage! Negatives: No Trapping/passive damage, no Wish support, lower overall bulk) and, more importantly, its typing is straight awful into the tier's physical attackers outside of rain `mons, Revavroom, and Lucario. Too many threats running around with Dark, Bug, and Ghost STAB/Coverage, making that second type a massive liability.

Helmet Palossand can do some of what `Mola did, and it's probably the best Slither Wing switch-in we're gonna get for now, but it still hates the number of Knock Off users around and needs to tera to win the rain MU that `Mola basically soloed (not that Rain is especially good in RU). PhysDef Belibolt also puts in some work, aided by the fact that Soak steals STAB from Ground type switch-ins that want to click EQ, but we've got multiple highly viable Volt Absorb `mons running around right now, so you can't safely run a set of Slack Off/Soak/Parabolic Charge/Volt Switch, and you really want all four of those. Also: no Regenerator, so running Rocky Helmet is much bigger sacrifice on both `mons with hazards everywhere.

Anybody have a lifeline for me?
Honestly, no mon can really do what mola did (thankfully), so either slowbro or physdef vaporeon are your best options as a water type replacement. You could also try physdef slowbro-g, but the dark types continue being an issue.

To not make this a one liner, I wanna share an NU mon that has worked surprisingly well for me:

1694002613058.png

Sandaconda (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
- Rest
- Earthquake

I tried the snake in an effort to give Braviary-H more opportunities to outspeed and actually KO mons thanks to glare support, but it actually worked out quite well as an overall team player (as opposed to the slow fat eagle ;-;). The tier is MUCH faster compared to the last 2 months, so having paralysis alongside rocks and status absorption with shed skin (mainly random WoW) is quite nice. While Toedscruel could fill this space a bit better as a ground type with Spore, I find it a bit too exploitable due to its grass typing, specially since most of the electric types in the tier can deal with you in some way (and even bellibolt can be a nuisance by absorbing spore while not dying XD)

Set is self explanatory, though the EV spread could probably be optimized once the tier settles down in a month or two.
 
have you considered Vaporeon? i mean it doenst have regenerator but outside of it should be able to do everything alomomola can?
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 246-289 (53 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 207-244 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mola is almost 40% bulkier than Vaporeon on the Physical side, even not accounting for Regenerator. Factoring in Regenerator, Band Slither Wing took more Helmet damage than it dealt to `Mola with First Impression. Add Hazards to the mix and things get even more dire for the other player. God help them if they were running LO, which I saw way more often than is reasonable.

Here are a couple examples of what `Mola did that nothing else can (and why it's probably for the best that it's gone):

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1928808824
Tera Grass `Mola single-handedly eliminates 5 `mons on an admittedly-kinda-weird Rain team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1928777997
Again, weird team because ladder gonna ladder, but `Mola basically keeps Band Slither Wing off the field for most of the match (and when it does come back in, it's an easy decision to sac `Mola to essentially take down Slither Wing with helmet chip). Whirlpool lets it basically nullify Dachsbun's Yawn, Trapping Dachsbun for the entirety of the Sleep timer and making it burn Wish/Recover PP or else take way more rocky helmet chip than it could dream of dealing out.

Not pictured: the dozens of times I whirlpool trapped a Foretress and Mirror Coated its Volt Switch to severely dent whatever counter they tried to bring in.

The thing about `Mola (especially the Mirror Coat variant I ran) was that it was a defensive `mon you could play aggressively to create advantages. In that way, the most similar `mon I've found is Umbreon, which I used the exact same way in Gen8, just with Foul Play pressure replacing Helmet/Whirlpool/Mirror Coat hi-jinx. In limited testing, it's still putting in work for me this Gen, even if it really misses being able to offer Heal Bell support.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Wish
- Protect
- Yawn

No Regenerator means Umbreon has a harder time passing its Wishes than `Mola, but it can still use them to stay healthy and run out the clock (beyond losing the move slot, Wish + Protect + lefties honestly has some major benefits on a defensive `mon, especially with the recovery PP nerf) . Yawn lets you phaze out threats, creates openings to pass wishes or bring in a `mon to set up, or just lets you keep pressuring things with Foul Play. Tera Poison flips all of dark's Weaknesses into Resists and keeps you safe from the odd Toxic or other poison proc. I wish it were a more viable option to run PhysDef Umbreon, but that Dark typing is just rough in this tier.

In unrelated news, here are some meme sets that are pretty terrible. I share so that you don't have to test them if you ever get the thought in your head at 1 a.m.:
Glare/Hex/Boomburst/Roost Tera Ghost Dudunsparce
Sub/BU/Taunt/Acro Sitrius Thundurus
Growth/Knock/Giga Drain/Chesto-Resto Wo-Chien
Glare/Sand Tomb/Rest/Dig Helmet Sandaconda
Shore Up/Sand Tomb/Curse/Night Shade Helmet Palossand (y'all: I was really chasing that Alomomola Whirlpool high)
Competitive Weather Ball Kilowattrel with Snow + Aurora Veil support
 
Don't know where i should ask this but how the fuck is starraptor ru? two generations ago it was uubl and it has been the pokemon to always massacre uu so how it drop past it this gen?
 
Don't know where i should ask this but how the fuck is starraptor ru? two generations ago it was uubl and it has been the pokemon to always massacre uu so how it drop past it this gen?
Simple answer: powercreep. Even right now Staraptor struggles vs common walls like both formes of Slowbro, Diancie, and other mons that can take advantage of Choiced sets (especially Scarf) being locked into the wrong move, like the Electric-types for Brave Bird. Definitely not to be underestimated but yeah.
 
What are the cores with you can build around in this tier??

Saw a player talking about Forretress + Wo Chien being a good balance core but there is more??
 
Don't know where i should ask this but how the fuck is starraptor ru? two generations ago it was uubl and it has been the pokemon to always massacre uu so how it drop past it this gen?
UU has an easier time checking it this gen + the more offensive nature of UU this gen means it has a harder time switching in. In RU, while good, it's not really an overpowered mon. Heck, banded sets are outclassed by Flamigo due to Scrappy Close Combat. There's not really a dedicated counter to it (maybe alo last month), but a lot of stuff checks its naturally while teambuilding.

Also, I think this question should've gone in the Short Q&A thread in this same forum :wo:
 

Seed Sower

is this thing on
is a Tiering Contributor
One more silly set that's worked out pretty well so far:

Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Earth Power
- Iron Defense
Just wanted to say that I think this set is super good and has served as consistent late-game wincon for me. I've been running a more defensive EV spread (optimized for... something... I forget what) to maximize longevity with ID/CM, which I've personally preferred to all-out offense. Notably, though, I think Covert Cloak is a particularly good item on this set instead of Lefties.

Diancie @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 64 SpA / 108 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Draining Kiss
- Iron Defense

While Cloak doesn't prevent the occasional unfortunate crit, it does prevent stray poisons from Gunk Shot/Sludge Bomb, flinches (especially from Iron Head), confusion from Hurricane, para from Discharge/Tbolt, non-Wisp burns, Salt Cure damage, etc. - all things that (in my experience) usually end up hampering Diancie's ability to outpace its competition.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1937381982-g6ax924x4atto2c1smlggsyq0zxn7dypw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1930702811-c5b8w5x180se5dvr2vpbkmrhckjgw91pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1938159033-oh7otsu7nr60fyiv2vdpkecofd3k9vqpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1937494874-uvmcclpia56dnh62mhs7mk31p7ii2vmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-1937400950-brr1dl76j4avk6itslf5yfvy1ulh0ympw
 
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