Most people who have paid attention to the usage stats will know that Landorus-Therian is most likely rising next month. Does that mean Great Tusk will no longer be outclassed and be the main ground type of the tier?
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Metagame SV Ubers UU Metagame Discussion (Clod/Ditto dropped, Lando-T/Pao rose!)
- Thread starter KineSquared
- Start date
Okay true lol, but even for defensive purposes?
As a spinner, drill is a better ground. Tusk has a type that doesn't come in safely on the best steel in the tier, loses into Tina and a handful of other meta relevant Pokemon i am forgetting off of the top of my head, and it's overall defensive profile is not great with the numerous special attackers this tier is full of
Alright, what do we do about mewtwo
for the moment, pao, and scarf yu and palafin offensively. Arc-dark, giratina, terap, and mandibuzz defensively?
Fishy is talking about post shifts
tera dark clod if clod drops
The same we are doing now
Pray it misses focus blast on Darkceus and it doesn't tera for the judgmenet OHKO
quickban it hopefully
should've already been gone ages ago
I agree as well, Pao was barely enough
Sorry to say, no, Focus Blast is quite the move.
252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Dark Clodsire: 278-330 (59.9 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is Max special defense (which you probably don't want) and not including Tera Fighting, one of the best ones Mewtwo uses
yeah and one of the best things focus blast does is miss
For starters I wanna make things clear that idt M2 is necessarily busted or even qb worthy. Probably suspect worthy. But I really do not like it when ppl make these sort of comments that are like "[innacurate move] will just miss!". In addition to M2, I've heard it many times for Palkia-O. It's a stupid argument against the strength of a mon. You cannot ever operate in-game on the assumption that a move will miss. Hoping moves will miss is how you begin sacrificing pokemon and losing games. The fact is, is that moves such as Focus Blast should statistically hit more than it misses, even if it doesn't feel like that.
Espathra days are here folks, D -> B
It's been a while since I've posted in this thread and I wanted to talk about the metagame, both present and future. Even though the present metagame is ending in a few days lol...
The first thing I want to talk about is Mewtwo. I've talked about this a lot on discord but, I firmly believe that Mewtwo is not broken and will not be broken after Pao rises to Ubers. Mewtwo is like several other pokemon we have down here, it's an insane breaker with some issues. Mewtwo either doesn't have all the moveslots it wants or doesn't have the right item. This is compounded by pure Psychic not being a fantastic typing. It wants all of NP, Psystrike, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Recover, then potentially more niche options like Ice Beam and Knock Off on literally every set. This means Mewtwo gets to pick and choose what checks it, but also that its often times missing a move it'd really rather have. Which leads into its next issue, item choice. Mewtwo wants both Boots and LO on every set. Without boots, it's very vulnerable to hazard chip as well as it's own Life Orb recoil. Without Life Orb, you start coming up short on kills that you need to get. Therein lies the problem. Whatever item you choose really fucks over Mewtwo. Again, this is nothing building a good team can't fix, but this is a far cry from a broken mon. Mewtwo is also just... kinda slow. Although very few things can kill it from full, it often isn't at full due to the aforementioned recoil it's taking. Zacian, Pao, Deoyxs, and most scarfers have a fairly easy time revenge killing it, while most speed boosting mons will be faster than Mewtwo after 1 boost (the exception to this is Modest Terapagos). Pao leaving doesn't really change this, as imo Pao was the weakest revenge killer on this list due to Mewtwo's common Teras really owning Pao. Mewtwo will still be a strong mon, especially with the predicted drop of Clodsire being another mon it threatens, but to me it's really not different from the many other special breakers that are impossible to switch into. You just have to outplay the mon and revenge kill it when you get the opportunity, either from sacks or getting a pivot correct.
While I think all Arceus forms will get better post Landorus-Therian rise, the ones that stand out to me as potential problems are Poison and Dragon. I'll start with Arc Poison. Arc Poison is already the best Arc form in the meta, and I don't see that changing post shifts. Sure it gains another decent check in Clod, but Clod really can't do much back. Clod doesn't even like dealing with the Wisp support sets as it means EQ won't be doing enough to Poisonceus while it gets beaten down by EP. The support set definitely gets better, but I don't think it pushes Poisonceus into the realm of broken. That goes to CM. With Lando leaving, Support loses one of the bigger Wisp targets and a Poison resist, even if Lando didn't really check Poison long term. Now the only thing stopping a potential CM Poison defensively is spdef Giratina, which I've said I don't think is a great mon, but will get better with shifts. The combo of Poison/Ground coverage is insanely strong and Poisonceus has great Teras in Fairy Steel and Dark to get out of potential revenge killing options. This combined with its natural immunity to Toxic makes Poisonceus really threatening, and in my eyes, potentially broken. The probably fall of Alo definitely helps as well, since Poison's best checks won't have reliable recovery and really appreciated the wishes from Alo to check it long term.
Onto Arc Dragon, who is arguably broken now with Lando-T in the tier, will only get better after the shifts. Unless we magically see a Skeledirge drop, Dragonceus only loses checks in these shifts. Without Lando to intim pivot around the Dragonceus, it gets to set up much more freely and claim more kills. Dragon/Fire coverage is already amazing, further boosted by Tera Fire on most sets. Outrage being a relatively free lock since it means you more than likely have killed a mon before getting revenged also only gets better as we see a shift to more spdef mons. The fall of Alo definitely helps Dragonceus, as it's one less thing that can chip away at it with helmet and threaten burns with Scald. I really fail to see how reliable counterplay to this mon will develop without Lando-T. On HO, it will no longer have to run Ice Beam or Recover, opening up that last move slot to be something like Taunt, further allowing it more opportunities to set up. This is the mon I'm easily the most worried about in a Post-Lando meta.
This thing already has no great checks to the LO set, but opposing Lando-T was one of the better pivots into it. While a potential shift towards more spdef mons definitely hurts, the reliable counterplay to this mon still remains using not the greatest mons like spdef Mandibuzz and Moltres. It also loses one of its most reliable revenge killers in Pao, as stuff like Zacian don't kill from full. This is the other thing that I think gets a lot better post shifts, and will need to be watched closely.
Other things like Gouging Fire, Urshifu (Both Forms), and Roaring Moon will get better with the removal of Lando-T and Chien Pao, but I don't foresee any of them as potentially broken.
Onto the present meta. It's no secret that I really enjoyed this meta for a lot of the flexibility it provides. The rise of AloPagos made a lot more things viable in my opinion and allowed for a lot of experimentation. Below, I will list a few of the mons I really enjoyed using in this meta that were a bit underrated.
After messing around with rain a lot, I can't really say that it's a consistently viable playstyle with the lack of actual abusers (No Palafin and Tera Water Zacian are not abusers). You are fishing for no Terapagos (which is the undisputed second best mon in the tier), but I think there are some good aspects to it. Archaludon was the biggest draw for me, as it seemed like the best abuser. What I found was, most teams really do not deal with this thing well. The combo of Electro Shot + Draco means it can consistently threaten mons, and when given an Assault Vest, can reliably find entry on Magearna and threaten it out. Lando can't take repeated Dracos or Flash Cannons so it can't risk switching into Electro Shot. Body Press provides a nice way to hit Darkceus and Terapagos while getting boosted by Stamina. The biggest check is CM Arcs, but none of those want to take repeated Electro Shots while boosting up in rain. Definitely a fun mon, it's a shame it only fits on rain.
Both of these mons do similar things, just on different sides of the physical-special split. Running spdef + boosting allows them to switch in and reliably threaten out Mag. Regular Ursaluna takes advantage of a lot of the standard physical checks running wisp to boosts its damage output, while threatening Lando with Ice Punch. It pairs extremely well with Alo, allowing it to stay around longer. Bloodmoon really preys on Poisonceus' popularity to set up and hit things really hard. Unlike the regular form, access to reliable recovery means it's less dependent on Alo to stick around (although it really appreciates Alo helping to check physical attackers). Both of these mons can be kinda awkward to fit on teams since it means type stacking either grounds or normals, but I think both are much better than their current VR placements.
Dragon/Fire coverage is simply amazing right now. Both of these mons can speed boost with DD on Gouging and Flame Charge on Reshiram. Reshiram especially takes advantage of +1 speed to really break holes in a lot of the common defensive cores. Even breaking through Terapagos thanks to Turboblaze ignoring Tera Shell. Gouging pairs incredibly well with Arc Dragon as both of them can overwhelm their shared checks with relative ease. Reshiram is definitely underrated and should be experimented with more. Shockingly, both of these mons pair well with Alo providing a Lando-T check + wishpass (who could have seen that coming).
Like Fc, I believe this mon is a solid scarfer. The ability to threaten Alo with CC even through its protect is very valuable and Surging Strikes is a very spammable move even in the helmet infested meta. I personally believe it's better than Palafin as it's more immediately reliable and less tera dependent to function.
Quiver Dance is a stupid move. If you are able to find ways to get a QD off, very few things want to deal with Volc. I've messed around with both Tera Grass Giga Drain and Tera Dragon Tera Blast to some success, and I think this thing should be explored more with offense becoming more viable. It really takes advantage of AloPagos' popularity to get set up chances, and I think it could probably see more use even outside of offense with a bulkier set taking advantage of Flame Body and Morning Sun.
That's it... I'm sad this meta will be ending in a few days, but I'm very excited to see how the new meta develops during UMPL. Thank you for reading and I am open to discussion about any of this.
The first thing I want to talk about is Mewtwo. I've talked about this a lot on discord but, I firmly believe that Mewtwo is not broken and will not be broken after Pao rises to Ubers. Mewtwo is like several other pokemon we have down here, it's an insane breaker with some issues. Mewtwo either doesn't have all the moveslots it wants or doesn't have the right item. This is compounded by pure Psychic not being a fantastic typing. It wants all of NP, Psystrike, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Recover, then potentially more niche options like Ice Beam and Knock Off on literally every set. This means Mewtwo gets to pick and choose what checks it, but also that its often times missing a move it'd really rather have. Which leads into its next issue, item choice. Mewtwo wants both Boots and LO on every set. Without boots, it's very vulnerable to hazard chip as well as it's own Life Orb recoil. Without Life Orb, you start coming up short on kills that you need to get. Therein lies the problem. Whatever item you choose really fucks over Mewtwo. Again, this is nothing building a good team can't fix, but this is a far cry from a broken mon. Mewtwo is also just... kinda slow. Although very few things can kill it from full, it often isn't at full due to the aforementioned recoil it's taking. Zacian, Pao, Deoyxs, and most scarfers have a fairly easy time revenge killing it, while most speed boosting mons will be faster than Mewtwo after 1 boost (the exception to this is Modest Terapagos). Pao leaving doesn't really change this, as imo Pao was the weakest revenge killer on this list due to Mewtwo's common Teras really owning Pao. Mewtwo will still be a strong mon, especially with the predicted drop of Clodsire being another mon it threatens, but to me it's really not different from the many other special breakers that are impossible to switch into. You just have to outplay the mon and revenge kill it when you get the opportunity, either from sacks or getting a pivot correct.
While I think all Arceus forms will get better post Landorus-Therian rise, the ones that stand out to me as potential problems are Poison and Dragon. I'll start with Arc Poison. Arc Poison is already the best Arc form in the meta, and I don't see that changing post shifts. Sure it gains another decent check in Clod, but Clod really can't do much back. Clod doesn't even like dealing with the Wisp support sets as it means EQ won't be doing enough to Poisonceus while it gets beaten down by EP. The support set definitely gets better, but I don't think it pushes Poisonceus into the realm of broken. That goes to CM. With Lando leaving, Support loses one of the bigger Wisp targets and a Poison resist, even if Lando didn't really check Poison long term. Now the only thing stopping a potential CM Poison defensively is spdef Giratina, which I've said I don't think is a great mon, but will get better with shifts. The combo of Poison/Ground coverage is insanely strong and Poisonceus has great Teras in Fairy Steel and Dark to get out of potential revenge killing options. This combined with its natural immunity to Toxic makes Poisonceus really threatening, and in my eyes, potentially broken. The probably fall of Alo definitely helps as well, since Poison's best checks won't have reliable recovery and really appreciated the wishes from Alo to check it long term.
Onto Arc Dragon, who is arguably broken now with Lando-T in the tier, will only get better after the shifts. Unless we magically see a Skeledirge drop, Dragonceus only loses checks in these shifts. Without Lando to intim pivot around the Dragonceus, it gets to set up much more freely and claim more kills. Dragon/Fire coverage is already amazing, further boosted by Tera Fire on most sets. Outrage being a relatively free lock since it means you more than likely have killed a mon before getting revenged also only gets better as we see a shift to more spdef mons. The fall of Alo definitely helps Dragonceus, as it's one less thing that can chip away at it with helmet and threaten burns with Scald. I really fail to see how reliable counterplay to this mon will develop without Lando-T. On HO, it will no longer have to run Ice Beam or Recover, opening up that last move slot to be something like Taunt, further allowing it more opportunities to set up. This is the mon I'm easily the most worried about in a Post-Lando meta.
This thing already has no great checks to the LO set, but opposing Lando-T was one of the better pivots into it. While a potential shift towards more spdef mons definitely hurts, the reliable counterplay to this mon still remains using not the greatest mons like spdef Mandibuzz and Moltres. It also loses one of its most reliable revenge killers in Pao, as stuff like Zacian don't kill from full. This is the other thing that I think gets a lot better post shifts, and will need to be watched closely.
Other things like Gouging Fire, Urshifu (Both Forms), and Roaring Moon will get better with the removal of Lando-T and Chien Pao, but I don't foresee any of them as potentially broken.
Onto the present meta. It's no secret that I really enjoyed this meta for a lot of the flexibility it provides. The rise of AloPagos made a lot more things viable in my opinion and allowed for a lot of experimentation. Below, I will list a few of the mons I really enjoyed using in this meta that were a bit underrated.
After messing around with rain a lot, I can't really say that it's a consistently viable playstyle with the lack of actual abusers (No Palafin and Tera Water Zacian are not abusers). You are fishing for no Terapagos (which is the undisputed second best mon in the tier), but I think there are some good aspects to it. Archaludon was the biggest draw for me, as it seemed like the best abuser. What I found was, most teams really do not deal with this thing well. The combo of Electro Shot + Draco means it can consistently threaten mons, and when given an Assault Vest, can reliably find entry on Magearna and threaten it out. Lando can't take repeated Dracos or Flash Cannons so it can't risk switching into Electro Shot. Body Press provides a nice way to hit Darkceus and Terapagos while getting boosted by Stamina. The biggest check is CM Arcs, but none of those want to take repeated Electro Shots while boosting up in rain. Definitely a fun mon, it's a shame it only fits on rain.
Both of these mons do similar things, just on different sides of the physical-special split. Running spdef + boosting allows them to switch in and reliably threaten out Mag. Regular Ursaluna takes advantage of a lot of the standard physical checks running wisp to boosts its damage output, while threatening Lando with Ice Punch. It pairs extremely well with Alo, allowing it to stay around longer. Bloodmoon really preys on Poisonceus' popularity to set up and hit things really hard. Unlike the regular form, access to reliable recovery means it's less dependent on Alo to stick around (although it really appreciates Alo helping to check physical attackers). Both of these mons can be kinda awkward to fit on teams since it means type stacking either grounds or normals, but I think both are much better than their current VR placements.
Dragon/Fire coverage is simply amazing right now. Both of these mons can speed boost with DD on Gouging and Flame Charge on Reshiram. Reshiram especially takes advantage of +1 speed to really break holes in a lot of the common defensive cores. Even breaking through Terapagos thanks to Turboblaze ignoring Tera Shell. Gouging pairs incredibly well with Arc Dragon as both of them can overwhelm their shared checks with relative ease. Reshiram is definitely underrated and should be experimented with more. Shockingly, both of these mons pair well with Alo providing a Lando-T check + wishpass (who could have seen that coming).
Like Fc, I believe this mon is a solid scarfer. The ability to threaten Alo with CC even through its protect is very valuable and Surging Strikes is a very spammable move even in the helmet infested meta. I personally believe it's better than Palafin as it's more immediately reliable and less tera dependent to function.
Quiver Dance is a stupid move. If you are able to find ways to get a QD off, very few things want to deal with Volc. I've messed around with both Tera Grass Giga Drain and Tera Dragon Tera Blast to some success, and I think this thing should be explored more with offense becoming more viable. It really takes advantage of AloPagos' popularity to get set up chances, and I think it could probably see more use even outside of offense with a bulkier set taking advantage of Flame Body and Morning Sun.
That's it... I'm sad this meta will be ending in a few days, but I'm very excited to see how the new meta develops during UMPL. Thank you for reading and I am open to discussion about any of this.
Volcarona probably has a lot of non explored options, it has sub, wisp, can probably stop phazing with it's own, and with it's coverage of choice, it has really cool things available, like Hurricane and Psychic. even Tera blast can probably vary with more types such as Fairy Water, maybe even something like Dark could see use on the proper teamIt's been a while since I've posted in this thread and I wanted to talk about the metagame, both present and future. Even though the present metagame is ending in a few days lol...
The first thing I want to talk about is Mewtwo. I've talked about this a lot on discord but, I firmly believe that Mewtwo is not broken and will not be broken after Pao rises to Ubers. Mewtwo is like several other pokemon we have down here, it's an insane breaker with some issues. Mewtwo either doesn't have all the moveslots it wants or doesn't have the right item. This is compounded by pure Psychic not being a fantastic typing. It wants all of NP, Psystrike, Focus Blast, Fire Blast, Recover, then potentially more niche options like Ice Beam and Knock Off on literally every set. This means Mewtwo gets to pick and choose what checks it, but also that its often times missing a move it'd really rather have. Which leads into its next issue, item choice. Mewtwo wants both Boots and LO on every set. Without boots, it's very vulnerable to hazard chip as well as it's own Life Orb recoil. Without Life Orb, you start coming up short on kills that you need to get. Therein lies the problem. Whatever item you choose really fucks over Mewtwo. Again, this is nothing building a good team can't fix, but this is a far cry from a broken mon. Mewtwo is also just... kinda slow. Although very few things can kill it from full, it often isn't at full due to the aforementioned recoil it's taking. Zacian, Pao, Deoyxs, and most scarfers have a fairly easy time revenge killing it, while most speed boosting mons will be faster than Mewtwo after 1 boost (the exception to this is Modest Terapagos). Pao leaving doesn't really change this, as imo Pao was the weakest revenge killer on this list due to Mewtwo's common Teras really owning Pao. Mewtwo will still be a strong mon, especially with the predicted drop of Clodsire being another mon it threatens, but to me it's really not different from the many other special breakers that are impossible to switch into. You just have to outplay the mon and revenge kill it when you get the opportunity, either from sacks or getting a pivot correct.
While I think all Arceus forms will get better post Landorus-Therian rise, the ones that stand out to me as potential problems are Poison and Dragon. I'll start with Arc Poison. Arc Poison is already the best Arc form in the meta, and I don't see that changing post shifts. Sure it gains another decent check in Clod, but Clod really can't do much back. Clod doesn't even like dealing with the Wisp support sets as it means EQ won't be doing enough to Poisonceus while it gets beaten down by EP. The support set definitely gets better, but I don't think it pushes Poisonceus into the realm of broken. That goes to CM. With Lando leaving, Support loses one of the bigger Wisp targets and a Poison resist, even if Lando didn't really check Poison long term. Now the only thing stopping a potential CM Poison defensively is spdef Giratina, which I've said I don't think is a great mon, but will get better with shifts. The combo of Poison/Ground coverage is insanely strong and Poisonceus has great Teras in Fairy Steel and Dark to get out of potential revenge killing options. This combined with its natural immunity to Toxic makes Poisonceus really threatening, and in my eyes, potentially broken. The probably fall of Alo definitely helps as well, since Poison's best checks won't have reliable recovery and really appreciated the wishes from Alo to check it long term.
Onto Arc Dragon, who is arguably broken now with Lando-T in the tier, will only get better after the shifts. Unless we magically see a Skeledirge drop, Dragonceus only loses checks in these shifts. Without Lando to intim pivot around the Dragonceus, it gets to set up much more freely and claim more kills. Dragon/Fire coverage is already amazing, further boosted by Tera Fire on most sets. Outrage being a relatively free lock since it means you more than likely have killed a mon before getting revenged also only gets better as we see a shift to more spdef mons. The fall of Alo definitely helps Dragonceus, as it's one less thing that can chip away at it with helmet and threaten burns with Scald. I really fail to see how reliable counterplay to this mon will develop without Lando-T. On HO, it will no longer have to run Ice Beam or Recover, opening up that last move slot to be something like Taunt, further allowing it more opportunities to set up. This is the mon I'm easily the most worried about in a Post-Lando meta.
This thing already has no great checks to the LO set, but opposing Lando-T was one of the better pivots into it. While a potential shift towards more spdef mons definitely hurts, the reliable counterplay to this mon still remains using not the greatest mons like spdef Mandibuzz and Moltres. It also loses one of its most reliable revenge killers in Pao, as stuff like Zacian don't kill from full. This is the other thing that I think gets a lot better post shifts, and will need to be watched closely.
Other things like Gouging Fire, Urshifu (Both Forms), and Roaring Moon will get better with the removal of Lando-T and Chien Pao, but I don't foresee any of them as potentially broken.
Onto the present meta. It's no secret that I really enjoyed this meta for a lot of the flexibility it provides. The rise of AloPagos made a lot more things viable in my opinion and allowed for a lot of experimentation. Below, I will list a few of the mons I really enjoyed using in this meta that were a bit underrated.
After messing around with rain a lot, I can't really say that it's a consistently viable playstyle with the lack of actual abusers (No Palafin and Tera Water Zacian are not abusers). You are fishing for no Terapagos (which is the undisputed second best mon in the tier), but I think there are some good aspects to it. Archaludon was the biggest draw for me, as it seemed like the best abuser. What I found was, most teams really do not deal with this thing well. The combo of Electro Shot + Draco means it can consistently threaten mons, and when given an Assault Vest, can reliably find entry on Magearna and threaten it out. Lando can't take repeated Dracos or Flash Cannons so it can't risk switching into Electro Shot. Body Press provides a nice way to hit Darkceus and Terapagos while getting boosted by Stamina. The biggest check is CM Arcs, but none of those want to take repeated Electro Shots while boosting up in rain. Definitely a fun mon, it's a shame it only fits on rain.
Both of these mons do similar things, just on different sides of the physical-special split. Running spdef + boosting allows them to switch in and reliably threaten out Mag. Regular Ursaluna takes advantage of a lot of the standard physical checks running wisp to boosts its damage output, while threatening Lando with Ice Punch. It pairs extremely well with Alo, allowing it to stay around longer. Bloodmoon really preys on Poisonceus' popularity to set up and hit things really hard. Unlike the regular form, access to reliable recovery means it's less dependent on Alo to stick around (although it really appreciates Alo helping to check physical attackers). Both of these mons can be kinda awkward to fit on teams since it means type stacking either grounds or normals, but I think both are much better than their current VR placements.
Dragon/Fire coverage is simply amazing right now. Both of these mons can speed boost with DD on Gouging and Flame Charge on Reshiram. Reshiram especially takes advantage of +1 speed to really break holes in a lot of the common defensive cores. Even breaking through Terapagos thanks to Turboblaze ignoring Tera Shell. Gouging pairs incredibly well with Arc Dragon as both of them can overwhelm their shared checks with relative ease. Reshiram is definitely underrated and should be experimented with more. Shockingly, both of these mons pair well with Alo providing a Lando-T check + wishpass (who could have seen that coming).
Like Fc, I believe this mon is a solid scarfer. The ability to threaten Alo with CC even through its protect is very valuable and Surging Strikes is a very spammable move even in the helmet infested meta. I personally believe it's better than Palafin as it's more immediately reliable and less tera dependent to function.
Quiver Dance is a stupid move. If you are able to find ways to get a QD off, very few things want to deal with Volc. I've messed around with both Tera Grass Giga Drain and Tera Dragon Tera Blast to some success, and I think this thing should be explored more with offense becoming more viable. It really takes advantage of AloPagos' popularity to get set up chances, and I think it could probably see more use even outside of offense with a bulkier set taking advantage of Flame Body and Morning Sun.
That's it... I'm sad this meta will be ending in a few days, but I'm very excited to see how the new meta develops during UMPL. Thank you for reading and I am open to discussion about any of this.
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Substitute
- Tera Blast
around uubd was experimenting with this set for one of the weeks on a double sash ho, s/o askov for this idea. team wasn't too bad but volc was WILDLY inconsistent, i think a bulkier variant able to bully zacian might be better, but i think the mon absolutely isn't too bad.
As of late, i've really been thinking about Arc as a whole in the meta again, bc this thing is so versatile, so strong and so bulky in comparison to the rest of the metagame, and its mandatory on every team. Dragonceus is crazy hard to stop, requiring "walking on eggshells" around it with help of a Lando-T just to not lose on the spot I feel. Poisonceus feels less overtly powerful, because Lando-t, Corviknight & Giratina are all pretty hard stops, and while Lando-T loses long-term, its usually trading/severely weakening it, which is not the same with Dragonceus. Definitely thinking both of them will go when Lando/Pao leaves.
Rain felt... decidedly average when i was messing around w/ it, Palafin is a rain abuser as no Alomomola is standing in its way, there is also the benefit of having a powered up Landorus-I with Sandsear Storm + Weather Ball to hit Flying types like Lando-T and Moltres. Archaludon didn't feel the greatest, but its enjoyable to use nonetheless. Other silly sets that were thrown around was wisp 3a thunder Electriceus, which is a very funny mon under rain, and the naturally rain-aligned Palkia-O, who is a force under rain. Lack of speed-boosters seems to really hurt Rain more than anything, bc i don't know how well Barraskewda would handle Tina/Alo.
Jokes aside, m2 has felt weirdly hard to fit, despite its incredibly versatility and movepool, because Psychic is just THAT BAD, and I honestly prefer to run Deoxys alot of the time, because of the Two Psychic-types, one has Psycho Boost & 150 speed. Not to say they compete with each other directly, but usually its geared to one or the other, and Deoxys is just more destructive & a better revenger in general. I think Mewtwo is almost impossible to answer defensively though, and pivoting around it to get somethign faster in isn't always a viable strategy, especiall if your speed control is something like Deoxys or Scarf Lando's, because this thing (contrary to what fc says) is stupendously tanky for something so threatening, and the only faster mons that can cleanly OHKO it, are Chien-Pao, who risks Tera, and Single-Strike, who is quite specific. Everything else has to chip it down, in which it has recover. Darkceus is outsped and ko'd by focus blast at +2, or jsut Tera Fighting Focus Blast kills it. Mandibuzz is quite safe, even into ice beam, but it just gives it free nplot setup. I think there's a likelihood that this mon just counters the way i build as opposed to being overtly broken, but i find it hard to differentiate because of how many sets this thing can run.
252 SpA Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 308-366 (87.2 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 208-246 (58.9 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 180-214 (50.9 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 276-325 (78.1 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 283-335 (80.1 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 540-636 (152.9 - 180.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 286-337 (81 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 208-246 (58.9 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 180-214 (50.9 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 276-325 (78.1 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 283-335 (80.1 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 540-636 (152.9 - 180.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 286-337 (81 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's happened. Millions must run psyshock
Now that the shifts have come, might as well give my thoughts.
- Probably the bigger of the 2 rises. It being gone means that 
doesn't have to be obligated to go PhysDef, and 
and 
among others can finally be competitive again. might have gone from balanced to broken, especially with Pao gone.
- 
hated running into it, so Lando-T being gone is good news for it. Aside that, a lot of teams will have to use other options for a ground type.
- it's Ditto, nothing new with it.
- This mon is looking to be a nice presence in the tier. Counters and 
with water absorb, can set up TSpikes, and would even be able to stop setup sweepers with Haze+Unaware. I think it will prove to be a surprisingly versatile mon.
- Its biggest reason for being a mainstay on teams () is gone, and is the best counter to it that you can ask for. It's still a good mon, but it'sn't the omnipresent force in the tier it used to be.
- It definitely appreciates being gone, since 2 of its standard sets are physical, and it doesn't have to worry about Lando-T's intimidate. Probably doesn't change all that much, but it's still a little happier.
- It wouldn't be unfair to say that this mon is very happy that Pao is gone. Might honestly be banworthy now.
- Clodsire stops it from freely flip turning, but it doesn't really change as a mon.
- It probably appreciates that mag isn't obligated to go PhysDef, and I can totally see it running Psychic Fangs to handle Clodsire.
- Pao being gone means it can more freely switch in on teams.
- Another mon that's happy Pao is gone for the same reason Giratina is.
- One less Chien-Pao shaped obstacle for the ostrich to worry about.
- With Pao gone, it can finally get back to being a premiere wallbreaker in the tier.
- Pao being gone means that it is viable again. It also has decent synergy with clodsire iirc.
- Without Pao, there's one less thing that outspeeds it.
- I could totally see a resurgence with Rillaboom. Pao and Lando-T being gone means that there are less things it has to worry about switching in on it.
- Probably the bigger of the 2 rises. It being gone means that doesn't have to be obligated to go PhysDef, and and among others can finally be competitive again. might have gone from balanced to broken, especially with Pao gone. - hated running into it, so Lando-T being gone is good news for it. Aside that, a lot of teams will have to use other options for a ground type. - it's Ditto, nothing new with it. - This mon is looking to be a nice presence in the tier. Counters and with water absorb, can set up TSpikes, and would even be able to stop setup sweepers with Haze+Unaware. I think it will prove to be a surprisingly versatile mon. - Its biggest reason for being a mainstay on teams () is gone, and is the best counter to it that you can ask for. It's still a good mon, but it'sn't the omnipresent force in the tier it used to be. - It definitely appreciates being gone, since 2 of its standard sets are physical, and it doesn't have to worry about Lando-T's intimidate. Probably doesn't change all that much, but it's still a little happier. - It wouldn't be unfair to say that this mon is very happy that Pao is gone. Might honestly be banworthy now. - Clodsire stops it from freely flip turning, but it doesn't really change as a mon. - It probably appreciates that mag isn't obligated to go PhysDef, and I can totally see it running Psychic Fangs to handle Clodsire. - Pao being gone means it can more freely switch in on teams. - Another mon that's happy Pao is gone for the same reason Giratina is. - One less Chien-Pao shaped obstacle for the ostrich to worry about. - With Pao gone, it can finally get back to being a premiere wallbreaker in the tier. - Pao being gone means that it is viable again. It also has decent synergy with clodsire iirc. - Without Pao, there's one less thing that outspeeds it. - I could totally see a resurgence with Rillaboom. Pao and Lando-T being gone means that there are less things it has to worry about switching in on it.You forgot ArcDragon, which becomes much much MUCH more harder to answer without Landorus-TherianNow that the shifts have come, might as well give my thoughts.
I'll be honest I forgot about it, probably because
still blanks its STAB.
Now that the shifts have come, might as well give my thoughts.
Mag is going to stay physdef. Mag still gets 2hkoed by Palkia-O Hpump after a spike, and it ends up taking more from Deoxys superpower so the interaction ends up being the same in terms of net damage. Without Landorus-Therian around, Magearna is the next best physdef pivot imo.
Solg is gonna be like, probably not great. It is better at tanking hits than Magearna, and doesn't get blocked by ground types, but it's seriously too passive. It has no encore, it has no twave, and it relies on weak attacks and roar to deal with offensive threats. Furthermore, it also doesn't have Spikes. Spikes are crazy powerful in that they're one of the biggest deterrents to keep Arceus from switching in too often. They significantly diminish Arceus' defensive and offensive potential by overall limiting the number opportunities it can come in.
I also don't exactly see Palkia-O getting that much better. It's not like it's facing less competition, and in fact one of its greatest targets in Landorus-Therian rose. It also gained a new niche check in Clodsire too.
This thing is def a little better as Pao is no longer around to come in on psystrike and threaten it out. Honestly speaking though, this mon has never felt too busted to me. Frito's already talked at length about it and I mostly feel the same so I won't yap too much. It's def strong and usually doesn't fail to make progress whenever it comes in, but never really runs away with games the same way stuff like Dragonceus does.
Agreed.
This thing will probably be pretty niche and I don't see it being terrifically present throughout the meta. Yea the most common Magearna set can't touch it, but also it's just the freest Mag spike ever. Driller works because not only does it blank Mag, it also gets rid of the Spikes that Magearna puts down. As for Clodsire's theoretical ability to blank setup sweepers... I don't really see it. For one, Clodsire isn't walling physical sweepers, of which are currently looking very strong without Lando there to check them. And when it comes to special setup sweepers, we have CM Arceus, Mewtwo, and Emu. In the case of Arceus, Clod either gets taunted, or can't do shit back to Arceus because CM Poisonceus is the best non-taunt CM Arc. CM Taunt Grasseus already uses Tera Poison more often than not anyways so that's one more thing that Clod can't check. Oh speaking of which, more CM pokemon can run Tera Poison now because Scarf Lando-T isn't a thing that exists anymore. And in the case of M2 and Emu, yea you need to spend tera to beat them which imo is kind of a waste of tera. Clod just seems to have a lack of good entry points, and doesn't exactly click the most threatening buttons once it actually comes in, so I honestly don't really see it being that incredible in the current meta.
I'm not gonna go over all of them cause there's too many, but i'll go over the ones I take most issue with.
Clod is not that guy imo, and it's still going to be a mainstay for reasons I've outlined above. The fact is is that Magearna is very easy to slot into teams, and generally allows teams to be much more prepared to take on the meta than teams without Magearna.
This mon might be a little unfair now. Every setup set already didn't like Landorus-Therian, especially scarf lando t. I definitely think this mon gets a lot better given its already large number of entry points, combined with a pretty big check being gone. Frito also yapped about it and I agree.
Psyfangs zacian has been quite standard for months now, and I also don't really see how spdef mag helps zacian. It can also just run tera blast ground too which is a little better now that our best defensive ground-immune is gone.
Palkia-O was never really in direct competition with Pao and I've already yapped about it
This thing was basically dogshit even before Pao. It also still has terap to deal with
also this is just crazy lmfaoo Magearna is hardly a Dragonceus check.I'll be honest I forgot about it, probably because
Yeah that’s why coverage existsI'll be honest I forgot about it, probably because
+1 252+ Atk Tera Fire Arceus-Dragon Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 398-470 (109.3 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO