Resource SV Ubers UU Viability Rankings (Post #94 for February Shifts)

Leo Justice

Ubers UU leader
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Hihi, Im a more unknown player but I think the VR even with the shifts is kind of flawed, so i wanted to drop some opinions on it.

:Solgaleo: :Magearna: ---> Should Swap Places on the VR
I firmly firmly believe Solgaleo is better than Magearna. Particularly as a Special Wall, the ability Solgaleo provides with Knock and a pivot that does not get stop gapped by Great Tusk and Lando Formes, both of who have been on a rise as of late, is massive. Solgaleos better overall bulk and Roar and most importantly, reliable recovery is also great to have. I get that Twave and Spikes are valuable on the Magearna side but i just find Solgaleo's utility movepool and it being arguably easier to slap on a team than Magearna to push it slightly over the edge.
I personally completely disgree with this notion

I find Solgaleo to be far too passive and teammate reliant to be actually S-. It is not a Mon you can slap in most archetypes/teams and it'd work. Mostly because to be a reliable special wall it often needs teammates who can actually threaten the special walls as it cannot do anything by itself. Solgaleo feels somehow weaker than Draining kiss Magearna in terms of damage output. Sunsteel strike is just really bad to deal damage and running mono knock off means you don't do damage to mostly anything that's not named Deoxys.

It is also RNG reliant in the sense that while it takes hits really well, it often times needs to take at least 2-3 hits to do its job. It needs to swap in, take a hit, take another hit, morning sun (because if you don't morning sun you just lose the next time it comes in if you get unlucky with what comes in) and then roar the threat out or teleport to something that can deal with it. Like it loses the 1v1 to a lot of the attacker's it's supposed to wall.

Yes, Magearna has a lot less longevity, but it can do a lot more during those turns it's alive compared to Solgaleo. Solgaleo has way less utility since hazards are way better. Even if it is just one spike, one spike in a metagame where a Lot of the tier can't hold boots goes a long way.
 
Within the VR there is an error I see

“Urshifu” is listed at B+
”Urshifu-Single” (Not even the correct notation) is listed at B-
“Urshifu-Rapid-Strike” is listed at C-

why are there three urshifus? and where is the actual placements of these mons?
 
:Reshiram: from C+ to C-
I want to talk about Reshiram for a minute. I really think this mon is honestly really solid, the only thing holding it back is it being outclassed. :Chi-Yu: Chi-Yu and :Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White both do what it wants to do (button clicker jones big damage) but better. However, Reshiram can do some other things. While weaker than both of them in terms of damage output, Reshiram’s ability to do big fire type damage for multiple turns in a row is really important. Even when Kyurem-White is Terastalized Fire, Reshiram’s Blue Flare still does more despite the Base Stat Difference.

252 SpA Turboblaze Tera Fire Kyurem-White Fusion Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 178-210 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 210-247 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Though this is less damage than Chi-Yu outputs by a mile, the benefit of being spammable is very solid. Fire/Dragon is also a good typing for the tier, only being weak to Ground and Rock (the latter of which only matters for stealth rock, which both of the others are already weak to). A powerful Draco Meteor also has good utility, especially just for sheer damage output. And a Base Stat difference of 20, between Kyurem-White’s 170 and Reshiram’s 150, isn’t huge.

Reshiram also has some things it can do that Chi-Yu or Kyurem-White can’t. First off, Physical sets. While Kyurem-White can run a physical or mixed set, it’s completely unoptimal, and it would only be able to run a loaded dice set, which :Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur and arguably :Kyurem: Kyurem-Base do better. Reshiram doesn’t need to run Loaded Dice, since it’s able to run Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, and Outrage/Dragon Claw. This isn’t optimal, but could be used to some degree.

While Physical/Mixed Sets is something that could be argued isn’t worth it, something that is definitely considerable is Tailwind. Having personally run a set involving tailwind and Eject Pack Draco Meteor, it’s a really interesting way to use Reshiram. I’d say it’s a sidegrade to Sticky Web, since it’s easier to set up and can’t be removed in the same ways, but it’s also temporary and doesn’t last very long, akin to Trick Room. Pivoting into a really strong but not very fast attacker can make it much more threatening.

Lastly, and in my opinion the best way to use Reshiram, is to double down on the Button-Clicker Jones strategy and run it alongside Chi-Yu and/or Kyurem-White. It’s a little insane, but it allows you to switch up your sets between them. You could afford to run Choice Specs on one of the two better Pokémon and run Choice Scarf on Reshiram for the speed. In my opinion Reshiram should be placed at least B-, but I imagine that’s just my bias. It definitely shouldn’t be in C-, and C+ seems like a fair low point for the Pokémon. I love Reshiram, and using it is actually really fun, so I want to see more of it.
 

vesp

burning bright in a sodium haze
is a Contributor to Smogon
:arceus-fire: S- -> S
Broken as fuck lol.

:giratina: A -> A+
Giratina soft checks like half the tier, is the best defogger by far, is the best spinblocker by far, and is the best phazer by far. Despite its awful attacking stats, most Pokemon can't switch into it because of the threat of its crippling status. Its bulk is monumental, with 150/120/120 shrugging off pretty much anything short of a Palkia's Spacial Rend(if you're specially defensive you live one btw). Giratina especially benefits from Arceus-Fire being the best Pokemon ever, since it is one of the only Pokemon who can genuinely wall it. Giratina is also a fantastic user of Terastallization, allowing it to wall Pokemon it otherwise couldn't.

A bit less confident about this one, but still figured it was worth mentioning.
:magearna: S- -> A+
Magearna is very good, with a wide array of support options, but S- is overcrowded and it is the best candidate for A+ ranking. Magearna faces competition from Solgaleo, which is significantly bulkier on both sides. Though Mag has better role compression thanks to spikes, Solgaleo is no slouch either, with Teleport, Knock Off, and Roar, it has a solid support movepool. Magearna has also pulled HORRENDOUS tournament results with a 35% winrate across its time in the tour, less than half of Solgaleo's STELLAR 79% winrate.(though Solgaleo saw only 9% average usage in its time in the tour compared to Magearna's 43%) Magearna's main niche over Solgaleo is Spikes, but Mag is frankly terrible at stacking them compared to the competition. Lead Deoxys formes can consistently be relied on to get both spikes and rocks on the field for HO structures, and Skarmory's excellent typing and access to reliable recovery make it a far better stacker than Magearna on bulky structures. Mag despite this, is still very good, but with competition like Skarmory and Solgaleo, who are much better on bulky teams, and Arceus-fire running around, I think S- is a bit high.

TL:DR Mag isn't bad, its just a worse wall than Solgaleo and a worse Spiker than Skarmory, but can do both of their jobs while being less passive. It should be moved down as it is not as centralizing or splashable as the other S- mons, who can fit onto almost any playstyle. Whereas Mag mostly fits onto more offensive builds, because defensive builds prefer Skamory or Solgaleo.
 
Last edited:
:rillaboom: to B/B+
:sneasler: to A-

With the ban of Arceus-Fire, one of Rillaboom's biggest threats has left the tier. It can now more freely glide. Retroactively, this is huge news for Sneasler, since Rillaboom gets more opportunities to come in and set up Grassy Terrain as a result, giving Sneasler more chances to come onto the field.
 

Leo Justice

Ubers UU leader
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
With the drops, the rise (rip Hattarene), and the ban (Warcriminal Arceus-Fire) then it's time to make some nominations

Drops

:Palkia-Origin: from S- to A/A- Palkia-O had been struggling a bit since it didn't really check Arceus-Fire despite using the water type slot. You'd think that the removal of it would help it, but now it has a lot of competition. Iron Bundle specifically is a problem, as it is a water type Palkia-O cannot check, while also being slower naturally (so you even lose to sets not using choice specs), while also having momentum in flip turn. It basically took it's job as a strong special attacker thanks to it's access to a more potent hydro pump and a better stab combination. It isn't the best special attacker in the tier anymore, and overall it lost a lot of offensive value. So i think that it's value comes defensively and trying to swap into common attackers like Chi-Yu and punishing switch ins with damage or thunder wave, rather than being an all out special attacker

:Great-tusk: from A+ to A. Still our best spinner, but it arguably struggles to check much in the tier. The best physical attackers rn are Zacian and chien Pao, both of which destroy it. While tusk can live one hit from them if they're unboosted, it struggles to do much against them without having access to SE moves. It's 4MSS is extremely bad, as you want Stealth rock, Earthquake, Knock off, Rapid spin, ice spinner (to deal with Landorus), body press/CC (to deal with Chien Pao and Arceus-Dark), etc.

:Deoxys: From A to A-. Deoxys gets outclassed by Mewtwo, straight up. Being a mixed attacker only helps against stall but it makes you really vulnerable to getting swap stalled. It cannot kill Arceus-dark with a low kick or superpower, meaning part of it's strength is overall wasted. It's extreme speeds are not good enough to justify using a slot (they can't even kill a Chi-yu with max attack tera normal!) It has potential to be good but it requires innovation.

:Arceus-Poison: From A- to B+. This guy fell harder than that one time my brother fell from the stairs. Idk why but I'm never seeing him. Tbf it's extreme speed sets are vulnerable to cheap damage and usually will give up recover. It's flare blitzes don't do much to tusk, who's a huge thorn. Landorus-T also somewhat checks it. It's special sets are okay at best (Kind of outclassed by Arceus-Electric) and it's physical sets struggle to put a dent in the metagame.

:Kyurem-White: from A- to B/B-. I have always thought this guy was overrated as a scarfer, and this is worse by the fact that it gets competition from Iron Bundle. Specs is it's best set in my opinion but that's not an A- set.

:Skarmory: From B+ to B/B-. This guy sucks as a spiker. It's poor special defense means that it'll usually drop to a slight breeze and it makes it vulnerable to any swap in. It doesn't threaten enough damage to warrant being scared of it, and while the spikes can be annoying, you can rapid spin them away (since they'd need to be running Skarmory + Giratina which is a horrible team structure which would require another steel to handle ice types). It's a steel type that doesn't handle any of the ice types in the tier which can be really problematic.

:Annihilape: from B- to C+/C. This guy kinda sucks. The fact that it's supposed to be a ghost type that breaks stall yet still manages to not really do that because of Arceus-Dark kind of makes him meaningless. He gets outclassed in HO by Spectrier, and in balance by Ghold or Giratina.

:Arceus-Rock: from C- to D. This is arguably the worst or the second worst Arceus form, only behind ice (Foreshadowing) . Overall, it struggles to find success and has yet to prove anything. I'm fine if I'm proven wrong though.

Rises

:Zamazenta-Crowned: from A to A+. This guy is really good, especially now that Arceus-Fire is gone and it functions as a check to non-Sacred Sword Chien pao. Fantastic matchup into Arceus-Dark. It's fast enough and strong enough to where you always need to respect it. It does struggle into some Pokemon like toxapex or Mewtwo but i think the upside is worth it.

:Excadrill: from B- to B/B+. Fantastic spinner and a great matchup into all the steel types, including Magearna, Solgaleo and Dialga. It does have a rough matchup into Giratina But it can cheap it down or have teammates that take advantage of it.

:Palkia: from C+ to B-. Fantastic scarfer and it has trick to cripple down even switch ins like Solgaleo or Magearna.


And here is the biggest nomination i want to make. Trust me, this is 100% serious

:Arceus-Bug: from D to B-. Yes, this is real. With Arceus-Fire out of the metagame I believe this guy has a chance to shine. It's great matchup into all the ground types (and especially Landorus-I) gives it great defensive utility for ground-weak teams. It's not perfect, of course. It requires spin support since it's ultra weak to hazards, and it can only hit the ground types with coverage like ice beam (so it'd get walled by steel types) or have to accept that it's not going to kill them in one hit (with flamethrower). It can still cripple steel switch-ins with thunder wave or will-o-wisp, set up rocks, and even CM. It has a good enough matchup into Mewtwo's without fire blast and Arceus-Dark.
 
I want to talk about Reshiram for a minute. I really think this mon is honestly really solid, the only thing holding it back is it being outclassed. :Chi-Yu: Chi-Yu and :Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White both do what it wants to do (button clicker jones big damage) but better. However, Reshiram can do some other things. While weaker than both of them in terms of damage output, Reshiram’s ability to do big fire type damage for multiple turns in a row is really important. Even when Kyurem-White is Terastalized Fire, Reshiram’s Blue Flare still does more despite the Base Stat Difference.

252 SpA Turboblaze Tera Fire Kyurem-White Fusion Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 178-210 (54.7 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian: 210-247 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Though this is less damage than Chi-Yu outputs by a mile, the benefit of being spammable is very solid. Fire/Dragon is also a good typing for the tier, only being weak to Ground and Rock (the latter of which only matters for stealth rock, which both of the others are already weak to). A powerful Draco Meteor also has good utility, especially just for sheer damage output. And a Base Stat difference of 20, between Kyurem-White’s 170 and Reshiram’s 150, isn’t huge.

Reshiram also has some things it can do that Chi-Yu or Kyurem-White can’t. First off, Physical sets. While Kyurem-White can run a physical or mixed set, it’s completely unoptimal, and it would only be able to run a loaded dice set, which :Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur and arguably :Kyurem: Kyurem-Base do better. Reshiram doesn’t need to run Loaded Dice, since it’s able to run Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, and Outrage/Dragon Claw. This isn’t optimal, but could be used to some degree.

While Physical/Mixed Sets is something that could be argued isn’t worth it, something that is definitely considerable is Tailwind. Having personally run a set involving tailwind and Eject Pack Draco Meteor, it’s a really interesting way to use Reshiram. I’d say it’s a sidegrade to Sticky Web, since it’s easier to set up and can’t be removed in the same ways, but it’s also temporary and doesn’t last very long, akin to Trick Room. Pivoting into a really strong but not very fast attacker can make it much more threatening.

Lastly, and in my opinion the best way to use Reshiram, is to double down on the Button-Clicker Jones strategy and run it alongside Chi-Yu and/or Kyurem-White. It’s a little insane, but it allows you to switch up your sets between them. You could afford to run Choice Specs on one of the two better Pokémon and run Choice Scarf on Reshiram for the speed. In my opinion Reshiram should be placed at least B-, but I imagine that’s just my bias. It definitely shouldn’t be in C-, and C+ seems like a fair low point for the Pokémon. I love Reshiram, and using it is actually really fun, so I want to see more of it.
Finally, someone who gets where I am coming from with using :Reshiram:

(some/most of these are not actual uubers examples, but they are here to demonstrate Reshiram's considerable power)

252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 196-232 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Eternatus: 492-578 (116.8 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Giratina: 404-476 (80.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 330-388 (82.9 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 420-494 (115.7 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Poison: 202-238 (53 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia-Origin: 404-476 (125.8 - 148.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 177-209 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 354-416 (108.9 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO

now, how about some sun-boosted blue flare fun?

252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. +6 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned in Sun: 134-162 (41.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fire in Sun: 151-178 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arceus-Poison in Sun: 303-357 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia-Origin in Sun: 75-89 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- 80% chance to 4HKO (against a freaking double resist palkia. Jeez.)
 
Last edited:

Leo Justice

Ubers UU leader
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Rises:
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao to S-
:Giratina: Giratina from A to A+
:Zamazenta-Crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned from A to A+
:Iron Bundle: Iron Bundle to A+
:Toxapex: Toxapex from B+ to A
:Corviknight: Corviknight from B- to B
:Dondozo: Dondozo from B- to B
:Excadrill: Excadrill from B- to B
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz from B- to B
:Palkia: Palkia from C+ to B-
:Dugtrio: Dugtrio from C- to C+
:Araquanid: Araquanid to C+

:Iron Moth: Iron Moth from C- to C
:Moltres: Moltres from C- to C
:Lokix: Lokix to C-
:Arceus-Bug: Arceus-Bug from D to B-


Drops:
:Palkia-Origin: Palkia-Origin from S- to A+
:Great Tusk: Great Tusk from A+to A
:Deoxys: Deoxys from A to A-
:Dialga: Dialga from A to B+
:Kingambit: Kingambit from A to A-
:Arceus-Poison: Arceus-Poison from A- to B+
:Blissey: Blissey from A- to B+
:Clefable: Clefable from A- to B
:Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White from A- to B+
:Arceus-Electric: Arceus-Electric from B+ to B
:Cyclizar: Cyclizar from B+ to B-
:Skarmory: Skarmory from B+ to B
:Dragapult: Dragapult from B to C+
:Gothitelle: Gothitelle from B to B-
:Quagsire: Quagsire from B to B-
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon from B to C+
:Torkoal: Torkoal from B to B-
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna from B to B-
:Annihilape: Annihilape from B- to C+
:Arceus-Fighting: Arceus-Fighting from B- to C+
:Dragonite: Dragonite from B- to C-
:Garchomp: Garchomp from B- to C
:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola from B- to C+
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom from B- to C+
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar from B- to C-
:Urshifu: Urshifu from B- to C+
:Alomomola: Alomomola from C+ to C-
:Lugia: Lugia from C+ to C-
:Meowscarada: Meowscarada from C+ to UR
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring from C+ to C
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss from C to C-
:Arceus-Psychic: Arceus-Psychic from C to C-
:Espathra: Espathra from C to C-
:Gouging Fire: Gouging Fire from C to C-
:Heatran: Heatran from C to C-
:Raging Bolt: Raging Bolt from C to UR
:Arceus-Rock: Arceus-Rock from C- to D
:Cinderace: Cinderace from C- to UR
:Enamorus: Enamorus from C- to UR
:Pecharunt: Pecharunt from C- to UR
:Smeargle: Smeargle from C- to D
 
Last edited:
Rises:
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao to S-
:Giratina: Giratina from A to A+
:Zamazenta-Crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned from A to A+
:Iron Bundle: Iron Bundle to A+
:Toxapex: Toxapex from B+ to A
:Corviknight: Corviknight from B- to B
:Dondozo: Dondozo from B- to B
:Excadrill: Excadrill from B- to B
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz from B- to B
:Palkia: Palkia from C+ to B-
:Dugtrio: Dugtrio from C- to C+
:Araquanid: Araquanid to C+

:Iron Moth: Iron Moth from C- to C
:Moltres: Moltres from C- to C
:Lokix: Lokix to C-

Drops:
:Palkia-Origin: Palkia-Origin from S- to A+
:Great Tusk: Great Tusk from A+to A
:Deoxys: Deoxys from A to A-
:Dialga: Dialga from A to B+
:Kingambit: Kingambit from A to A-
:Arceus-Poison: Arceus-Poison from A- to B+
:Blissey: Blissey from A- to B+
:Clefable: Clefable from A- to B
:Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White from A- to B+
:Arceus-Electric: Arceus-Electric from B+ to B
:Cyclizar: Cyclizar from B+ to B-
:Skarmory: Skarmory from B+ to B
:Dragapult: Dragapult from B to C+
:Gothitelle: Gothitelle from B to B-
:Quagsire: Quagsire from B to B-
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon from B to C+
:Torkoal: Torkoal from B to B-
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna from B to B-
:Annihilape: Annihilape from B- to C+
:Arceus-Fighting: Arceus-Fighting from B- to C+
:Dragonite: Dragonite from B- to C-
:Garchomp: Garchomp from B- to C
:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola from B- to C+
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom from B- to C+
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar from B- to C-
:Urshifu: Urshifu from B- to C+
:Alomomola: Alomomola from C+ to C-
:Lugia: Lugia from C+ to C-
:Meowscarada: Meowscarada from C+ to UR
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring from C+ to C
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss from C to C-
:Arceus-Psychic: Arceus-Psychic from C to C-
:Espathra: Espathra from C to C-
:Gouging Fire: Gouging Fire from C to C-
:Heatran: Heatran from C to C-
:Raging Bolt: Raging Bolt from C to UR
:Arceus-Rock: Arceus-Rock from C- to D
:Cinderace: Cinderace from C- to UR
:Enamorus: Enamorus from C- to UR
:Pecharunt: Pecharunt from C- to UR
:Smeargle: Smeargle from C- to D
Lugia being in the same subrank as Zamazenta-H really isn't helping those OU allegations huh? Bro is sitting in the same ranks as mostly OU mons and Reshiram (Who is only C- because mostly its super outclassed.) Lugia sucking this bad on its own merit is kind of impressive. It truly has went from the great wall to the great wall that does nothing for a few turns. Such a tragic tale of formerly meta defining uber back in the early gens.
 
Lugia being in the same subrank as Zamazenta-H really isn't helping those OU allegations huh? Bro is sitting in the same ranks as mostly OU mons and Reshiram (Who is only C- because mostly its super outclassed.) Lugia sucking this bad on its own merit is kind of impressive. It truly has went from the great wall to the great wall that does nothing for a few turns. Such a tragic tale of formerly meta defining uber back in the early gens.
You're right. Reshiram sucks because other things are better. Lugia sucks because it's shit.
 

LovelyLuna

Lost in a life full of mistakes
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hi! Love the updates and find myself agreeing with almost everything :3, have a few takes but they're moreso questions considering I only recently started the tier.

Giratina :Giratina: from A+ -> S-

Being the best hazard removal and wall in the tier is too valuable imo, It's ridiculously bulky and can successfully spread status, to the point that it is going to be your switch into pretty much half the tier, SpD Giratina can come in on Zacian (Without the Intrepid boost, as otherwise you will get crit, Pokemon is Pokemon.) and force it out through Wisp or Thunder Wave. even SpD Giratina survives Choice Band Crunch, while Physdef can survive +2 / Tera Dark Banded Chien-Pao! All this and being able to phase almost all of the scary set up sweepers. Only Pokemon that can consistently check all of Zacian, Zamazenta-C, Landorus, Palafin, More than half the good Arceus formes, Kingambit, Sneasler. I'd consider it almost mandatory on any bulky structure, especially taking into account how its synergy with (Utility) Magearna in comparison to other formes of hazard removal. 5 in S- does seem a bit much but if anything is dropping it's probably Mewtwo, which took a hit with Chien-Pao dropping to the tier, Mewtwo also just functions as a Zacian that's easier to revenge kill from my limited experience.

Solgaleo :Solgaleo: and Zamazenta-C :Zamazenta-Crowned: from A+ -> A

I think Solgaleo should drop mainly due to competition, there's more demand for Magearna on the same structures right now because of a certain broken ice cat. I do think Solgaleo is still a great wall that can keep similar threats at bay for longer, recovery goes a long way too but again, ice cat is restricting a lot of teams to Magearna.

Zamazenta-C I'm less sure about but I'm also unsure why it's so high, one of the easier set up sweepers to force out and isn't unreasonable to switch into even without Giratina or Toxapex. I like how its typing allows for it to take Arceus-Dark's and Chien-Pao's STABs but being vulnerable to Sacred Sword and hazards without reliable recovery makes it iffy. Just looks below standard in both departments and fits in a lot better with the tier below.

Iron Bundle :Iron Bundle: from A+ -> A-

I don't like Iron Bundle at all. Specs 2HKOs almost everything in the tier if you can hit your moves, but is incredibly vulnerable to hazards and pp stall, unlike Chien-Pao, Iron Bundle can't reliably pick up a kill every time it comes in. A bulky Pokemon that can recover off the damage like an Arceus forme, Solgaleo, and to an extent, Giratina, can switch in and then take it to their Water / Ice resist respectively. Offensive teams aren't really doomed either, because even if Iron Bundle can 2HKO their entire team, Iron Bundle can only switch in and force out Palkia-O and Palafin, and then if they have webs, Iron Bundle's truly finished. I'd argue its even less threatening than offensive Pokemon in the tier below. Then HDB sets try to escape those issues but realize they can not do damage.

252 SpA Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 154-183 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 154-183 (42.4 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Magearna: 114-135 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 182-216 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Iron Bundle Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 123-145 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dark: 150-177 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solgaleo: 135-160 (28.3 - 33.5%) -- 96.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Iron Bundle Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 130-154 (40 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Okay not everything has to hit hard, let's check its bulk...I'm not exaggerating when I say there's literally nothing it can switch in on safely, dies to uninvested neutral Judgement and every Scarfer in the tier. The physical bulk isn't that bad but unfortunately, every physical attacker has super effective coverage for it.

Iron Bundle is like Palkia-O except what if you were Choice locked for 10% more damage or immune to hazards in exchange of hitting like a wet noodle. Also as highlighted above, made of paper and struggles to find opportunities to come in.

Arceus-Electric :Arceus-Electric: and :Arceus-Poison: from B / B+ -> A-

Why are these two so low? Electric STAB is excellent in our tier of 3 Ground-types, especially considering none of them take Ice Beam, Electric isn't a bad defensive typing either, as a Pokemon with 120/120/120 bulk adores a neutral typing. Makes Arceus-Electric one of the hardest Pokemon to revenge kill. The bulk and its built-in paralysis immunity also mean it doesn't have a hard time switching in on the majority of the tier and setting up. You'll also notice that outside of Chien-Pao, there aren't Pokemon that threaten it once Electricceus Terastallizes to Flying. Arceus-Dark being so good definitely limits how high Arceus-Electric can go but it's still a good Pokemon that doesn't deserve the disrespect.

Arceus-Poison is a monster when its Gunk Shots hit, Fantastic defensive typing that lets set up on Zacian, and in true Arceus fashion, it can Tera Normal Extreme Speed your team down. Usually paired with Webs which make its job much easier, as +2 Gunk Shot OHKOs every non resist, and if you're not named Giratina, said resists are dropping to Flare Blitz / Earthquake. Unsure why this dropped when shifts only benefit it, as its checks (Tina, the bulky Grounds.) do not like Chien-Pao and Iron Fumble. Not much else to say.

That's all I have to say <3, I think Pokemon like Roaring Moon, Arceus-Fighting, and Spectrier deserve more but I don't have strong feelings thanks to a lack of experience with / against them.
 
:Arceus-Bug: from D to B-. Yes, this is real. With Arceus-Fire out of the metagame I believe this guy has a chance to shine. It's great matchup into all the ground types (and especially Landorus-I) gives it great defensive utility for ground-weak teams. It's not perfect, of course. It requires spin support since it's ultra weak to hazards, and it can only hit the ground types with coverage like ice beam (so it'd get walled by steel types) or have to accept that it's not going to kill them in one hit (with flamethrower). It can still cripple steel switch-ins with thunder wave or will-o-wisp, set up rocks, and even CM. It has a good enough matchup into Mewtwo's without fire blast and Arceus-Dark.
Rises:
:Chien-Pao: Chien-Pao to S-
:Giratina: Giratina from A to A+
:Zamazenta-Crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned from A to A+
:Iron Bundle: Iron Bundle to A+
:Toxapex: Toxapex from B+ to A
:Corviknight: Corviknight from B- to B
:Dondozo: Dondozo from B- to B
:Excadrill: Excadrill from B- to B
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz from B- to B
:Palkia: Palkia from C+ to B-
:Dugtrio: Dugtrio from C- to C+
:Araquanid: Araquanid to C+

:Iron Moth: Iron Moth from C- to C
:Moltres: Moltres from C- to C
:Lokix: Lokix to C-
Screenshot 2024-03-16 234723.png

Hey I was looking over this thread and noticed a small discrepancy here. Arceus-Bug was nommed to B-, and seemingly rose to that rank, but was left out of the vr shift post. What's the deal with this? This is a pretty major shift to be not mentioned at all.
 

Hey I was looking over this thread and noticed a small discrepancy here. Arceus-Bug was nommed to B-, and seemingly rose to that rank, but was left out of the vr shift post. What's the deal with this? This is a pretty major shift to be not mentioned at all.
totally not me missing it (ill tell the forum mods to update it)
 
Okay. Time for me to do my lovely vr noms.


:regieleki: B->B+/A-
This mon does not get enough credit if I'm being real. Its insane speed tier allows it to comfortably outspeed scarfers while maintaining power. Volt Switch is an immense amount of pressure, and the three groudn types are all scared of tb ice. Rapid Spin is huge utility, and these combine to make a nice role-compression mon with strong offense and role-compression in one slot. In addition to all of these, it is an incredible Giratina Lure, as it almost always forces it into a volt switch to avoid amssive damage. Pair it with your own giratina, Landorus-T, or Palafin, and you have an excellent core with a strong balance of offense and defense with speed, power, and priority.


:hoopa-unbound: UR -> C
tagging BigFatMantis for this one.
oh boy. This mon is surprisingly solid on twave spam or trick room teams. Choice band outputs a scary amount of damage off of its impressive attack stat, and dark stab is just so nice to have in this tier. Drain punch catches targets like dialga, magearna, chien-pao, and kingambit, while zenbutt and hyperspace fury are your standard stabs of choice. These three give you solid neutral coverage while hitting incredibly hard. Its not done yet, though, as it can cripple many a wall with a trick, allowing it to gain flexibility while forcing the choice item onto a wall, effectively removing it from the game, especially good at stifling setup magearna or paralysed zacian. On top of that, it's shockingly specially tanky and a safe mewtwo switchin more often than not.


:giratina: A+ -> S
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 460-544 (91.2 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 366-432 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not much more needs to be said. best spinblocker, best defensive mon, has double status, phasing, random tech moves like aura sphere, which always ohkos pao? This thing is basically perfect for this tier, defensively. Sure, its offensive capabilities are limited, but calm mind sets have seen success. It even gets defog to remove hazards; a lack of reliable recovery is inconsequential when you have so much bulk that REST without sleep talk is usable and viable.


:arceus-electric: and :arceus-poison: both to a-/ a
ekiller sets are on the rise, and they're disgusting. Being able to brute force through corv with enough boosts, Eleceus doesn't care about Dozo, and Poisonceus doesn't care about fairies. They both have their different merits, but ekillers and dd sets with espeed are what make them so strong for me, and I feel like these guys might prove to be a problem in the future, so I'd like to keep an eye on them. Regardless, these two are excellent and should easily be a- if not A outright, especially with their only reliable checks being skarm on poisonceus and tusk on poisonceus, with pokemon like Giratina handling both sets. Dragapult can also do gods work vs. both of these with outspeeding and statusing.
 

Fc

Waiting for something to happen?
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a defending SCL Champion
Ubers Leader
Ladder tour is over so now I'll drop some noms for the meta as I see it rn.

:magearna: Magearna -> S/S+
Magearna is ahead of everything else imo, best mon currently with the most versatility. I pretty much never left it off a team because even if it's just clicking spikes and volt it's checking strong attackers like pao and dragons while being most of the current hazard metagame alone. Offensive sets can just autowin games too since it's really hard to position around the setup moves it has, with your own magearna clicking encore being one of the better responses. If moved to S+ I'd probably put darkceus in S, it's the clear #2 for me rn.

:arceus-dark: Arceus-Dark -> S-/S
I think it's the second best mon rn, it only really uses support rocks or cm but that's kinda all it has to do. Safest stab judgment in the meta rn while also being one of the few answers to dawn wings, and also resisting dark in a meta where pretty much only magearna and other treasures of ruin do so. The most splashable arc by quite a bit, I just defaulted to it unless I was going out of my way to use smth like poison or grass.

:solgaleo: Solgaleo -> B/B+
I really don't see what this thing does, it loses to the strong dark types, competes with mag and zama for a steel but doesn't have the same potential in both long and short games, and isn't strong enough to threaten the things it wants to wall while also not having good enough set up to 1v1 a lot of things. Honestly might even be lower, I don't rate this thing at all.

:great-tusk: Great Tusk-> B
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian -> A
Tusk just has it hard, it doesn't really wall anything and is just a spin bot that is usually worse than terapagos at it. Scarf is probably the best set but that's only if you really need spin or knock and even then it has 4mss, both landos scarfed are better. Defensive Lando-T is very good, it soft checks zac and chips a lot with helmet while being a reliable rocker and good in the hazard war with taunt. Scarf is fine too, competes with incarnate form but still strong with more powerful u-turns. Just a better mon at almost everything compared to tusk.

:palafin-hero: Palafin -> B+/A-
Hard to get going sometimes and really wants to just spam jet punch, but mons like pex and grassceus along with teras and rocky helmet just hurt it a lot. Hazards are also really annoying to deal with since you have to switch at least once which gives up a lot of momentum. Not terrible but not that good.

:blissey: Blissey -> B- or smth idk
This mon is bad, only usable on stall and I haven't seen enough stall winning to think it's worth, should be with the other stall exclusives like dozo (also put that in B- or lower, same w stuff like clef corv skarm etc.).

:archaludon: Archaludon, :pelipper: Pelipper -> C
Rain is not that good, needs a lot of turns and gives up momentum pretty easily. Bad into a lot of mons and hazards but still usable, just not that high.

:dialga: Dialga -> C+
This mon is also bad, idk what it's doing up there. There are a lot of better steels.

:ursaluna-bloodmoon: Ursaluna Bloodmoon -> B
Good CM mon, really bulky and pairs well with hazards and other breakers / pivots like urshifu to get it in. It can just run max hp some speed rest in spatk cm stabs moonlight and wall a ton of stuff with tera, good mon.

:urshifu: Urshifu -> A-
This mon is super good, idk why it's so low. SD can just rip through teams, wicked blow is stronger than a pao crunch and it doesn't have to hold boots bc it's not rocks weak so it can go for glasses on sd sets. Scarf is also super good, it's 1 point faster than deo n so only really eleki outruns it unboosted and it's one of the most threatening pivots to switch into so u-turns are kinda free. Good revenge killer to pao and can run coverage for zacian and others, very strong pick rn.

:torkoal: Torkoal, :ursaluna: Ursaluna, :moltres: Moltres, :ogerpon-wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring, :maushold: Maushold, :primarina: Primarina, :lokix: Lokix -> UR (Torkoal can maybe stay C- or smth)
None of these mons are good, First 2 are probably the most usable but the rest just aren't. Trick Room is really bad for how much it's used, cheese strategy that doesn't really work rn or at least no consistent ones have been made, and that's all I see the first 2 on. Maybe sun is usable idk, can stick around in case. Ursaluna can maybe be C- too if people keep using trick room I just don't think it's good and bloodmoon is just better. Rest of these just don't do anything worthwhile.

:baxcalibur: Baxcalibur, :gothitelle: Gothitelle, :walking-wake: Walking Wake, :roaring-moon: Roaring Moon, :quagsire: Quagsire, :araquanid: Araquanid, :dragapult: Dragapult, :ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola -> Lower
All kinda mid so I just listed a few I think suck, they should be lower and don't really work rn. A lot of the B/B- mons are super fraud, didn't wanna list out specifically where I'd put all these but they should all be dropped imo.

There are some other random things that are less impactful like I think palk-o should drop a bit, the A- mons don't feel A- good but idk if anything does maybe grassceus and poisonceus can take the place of most of them and they go down, and I'm not sold on stuff like gholdengo deo-s exca or bugceus either, but the lower ranks fall off hard imo. Maybe stuff like alo and eleki could go up too idk.

Also terapagos can go in like A or smth good mon. Dawn wings is an even better mon can go in A+ probably or just like above mewtwo, either move that down or S- dawn wings but both sounds good since dawn wings is top 5 and mewtwo is probably just below the other guys.
 
Last edited:

Leo Justice

Ubers UU leader
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Ladder tour is over so now I'll drop some noms for the meta as I see it rn.

:magearna: Magearna -> S/S+
Magearna is ahead of everything else imo, best mon currently with the most versatility. I pretty much never left it off a team because even if it's just clicking spikes and volt it's checking strong attackers like pao and dragons while being most of the current hazard metagame alone. Offensive sets can just autowin games too since it's really hard to position around the setup moves it has, with your own magearna clicking encore being one of the better responses. If moved to S+ I'd probably put darkceus in S, it's the clear #2 for me rn.

:arceus-dark: Arceus-Dark -> S-/S
I think it's the second best mon rn, it only really uses support rocks or cm but that's kinda all it has to do. Safest stab judgment in the meta rn while also being one of the few answers to dawn wings, and also resisting dark in a meta where pretty much only magearna and other treasures of ruin do so. The most splashable arc by quite a bit, I just defaulted to it unless I was going out of my way to use smth like poison or grass.

:solgaleo: Solgaleo -> B/B+
I really don't see what this thing does, it loses to the strong dark types, competes with mag and zama for a steel but doesn't have the same potential in both long and short games, and isn't strong enough to threaten the things it wants to wall while also not having good enough set up to 1v1 a lot of things. Honestly might even be lower, I don't rate this thing at all.

:great-tusk: Great Tusk-> B
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian -> A
Tusk just has it hard, it doesn't really wall anything and is just a spin bot that is usually worse than terapagos at it. Scarf is probably the best set but that's only if you really need spin or knock and even then it has 4mss, both landos scarfed are better. Defensive Lando-T is very good, it soft checks zac and chips a lot with helmet while being a reliable rocker and good in the hazard war with taunt. Scarf is fine too, competes with incarnate form but still strong with more powerful u-turns. Just a better mon at almost everything compared to tusk.

:palafin-hero: Palafin -> B+/A-
Hard to get going sometimes and really wants to just spam jet punch, but mons like pex and grassceus along with teras and rocky helmet just hurt it a lot. Hazards are also really annoying to deal with since you have to switch at least once which gives up a lot of momentum. Not terrible but not that good.

:blissey: Blissey -> B- or smth idk
This mon is bad, only usable on stall and I haven't seen enough stall winning to think it's worth, should be with the other stall exclusives like dozo (also put that in B- or lower, same w stuff like clef corv skarm etc.).

:archaludon: Archaludon, :pelipper: Pelipper -> C
Rain is not that good, needs a lot of turns and gives up momentum pretty easily. Bad into a lot of mons and hazards but still usable, just not that high.

:dialga: Dialga -> C+
This mon is also bad, idk what it's doing up there. There are a lot of better steels.

:ursaluna-bloodmoon: Ursaluna Bloodmoon -> B
Good CM mon, really bulky and pairs well with hazards and other breakers / pivots like urshifu to get it in. It can just run max hp some speed rest in spatk cm stabs moonlight and wall a ton of stuff with tera, good mon.

:urshifu: Urshifu -> A-
This mon is super good, idk why it's so low. SD can just rip through teams, wicked blow is stronger than a pao crunch and it doesn't have to hold boots bc it's not rocks weak so it can go for glasses on sd sets. Scarf is also super good, it's 1 point faster than deo n so only really eleki outruns it unboosted and it's one of the most threatening pivots to switch into so u-turns are kinda free. Good revenge killer to pao and can run coverage for zacian and others, very strong pick rn.

:torkoal: Torkoal, :ursaluna: Ursaluna, :moltres: Moltres, :ogerpon-wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring, :maushold: Maushold, :primarina: Primarina, :lokix: Lokix -> UR (Torkoal can maybe stay C- or smth)
None of these mons are good, First 2 are probably the most usable but the rest just aren't. Trick Room is really bad for how much it's used, cheese strategy that doesn't really work rn or at least no consistent ones have been made, and that's all I see the first 2 on. Maybe sun is usable idk, can stick around in case. Ursaluna can maybe be C- too if people keep using trick room I just don't think it's good and bloodmoon is just better. Rest of these just don't do anything worthwhile.

:baxcalibur: Baxcalibur, :gothitelle: Gothitelle, :walking-wake: Walking Wake, :roaring-moon: Roaring Moon, :quagsire: Quagsire, :araquanid: Araquanid, :dragapult: Dragapult, :ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola -> Lower
All kinda mid so I just listed a few I think suck, they should be lower and don't really work rn. A lot of the B/B- mons are super fraud, didn't wanna list out specifically where I'd put all these but they should all be dropped imo.

There are some other random things that are less impactful like I think palk-o should drop a bit, the A- mons don't feel A- good but idk if anything does maybe grassceus and poisonceus can take the place of most of them and they go down, and I'm not sold on stuff like gholdengo deo-s exca or bugceus either, but the lower ranks fall off hard imo. Maybe stuff like alo and eleki could go up too idk.

Also terapagos can go in like A or smth good mon. Dawn wings is an even better mon can go in A+ probably or just like above mewtwo, either move that down or S- dawn wings but both sounds good since dawn wings is top 5 and mewtwo is probably just below the other guys.
I don't think I've ever seen a Bloodmoon Ursaluna do anything outside of grassy terrain teams. It's far too frail in the special side to where it loses to other CM mons, and it's really slow so it gets encore'd easily (although this can be solved by making it outspeed Magearna). It's hard to swap into, but super easy to revenge. I don't think it's that good. It often needs tera and even then it's not the hardest thing to kill even with it. Tera fairy is the more consistent tera but you wouldn't believe that there is another tera fairy Pokemon with an arguably better ability and far better bulk in the special side who directly competes with it - it's Dawn wings

Urshifu was that low because when the VR was made it was a metagame where Zacian had 50% usage, and Zacian is the biggest Urshifu Single Strike Bully. I don't think it's A- because it has some of the worst 4MMS of the entire tier. It wants to run 6 moves and it can't afford to run them all. It was SD and Trailblaze for boosting, sucker punch for priority, poison jab for coverage, and CC and Wicked blow for STAB. Losing one of these makes your match ups really polarizing. No poison jab? Fairy types bully you. No CC? magearna walls you entirely. No sucker punch? It gets outsped super easily due to its low speed. i think the scarf sets have potential but my problem with those is that it competes directtly with Chi-yu as a scarfed dark type, which is not an easy battle to win. At least it has a pivoting move and isn't weak to rocks.

Dawn wings is definitely the second best Pokemon in the tier if not the third (behind Arceus dark). I think it's incredibly good (although so many people are using the support set and not just the CM sweeper set for some reason) which just shreds through teams. It's incredibly challenging to fight against and will usually take at least 2 kills with it.

i think you're underestimating sun as a whole, especially since you have the best abuser in Chi-yu. It's way better than Rain and it's the best weather overall. Not that it's the most consistent thing but it can definitely be tricky to face when you have sun boosted overheats

I think trick room can be a tricky match up for certain team styles, more of a match up fish than a cheesy strategy. Offense in general is kind of not that great against it because you can almost always force 3 kills every time they set trick room. And it's not that hard to set trick room twice with tera. I think half room is definitely better than full trick room, mainly because a core of Magearna dawn wings Ursaluna is always good and always splashable.

Solgaleo and Dialga can definitely just go down a ton because they have fallen out of favor entirely. There is little reason to use the mon sadly, since Pao means you'll be forced to run Magearna anyways, and doubling in steel types is generally not great. It is really sad to have them drop this much.

Most of the others i agree with
 
I don't think I've ever seen a Bloodmoon Ursaluna do anything outside of grassy terrain teams. It's far too frail in the special side to where it loses to other CM mons, and it's really slow so it gets encore'd easily (although this can be solved by making it outspeed Magearna). It's hard to swap into, but super easy to revenge. I don't think it's that good. It often needs tera and even then it's not the hardest thing to kill even with it. Tera fairy is the more consistent tera but you wouldn't believe that there is another tera fairy Pokemon with an arguably better ability and far better bulk in the special side who directly competes with it - it's Dawn wings

Urshifu was that low because when the VR was made it was a metagame where Zacian had 50% usage, and Zacian is the biggest Urshifu Single Strike Bully. I don't think it's A- because it has some of the worst 4MMS of the entire tier. It wants to run 6 moves and it can't afford to run them all. It was SD and Trailblaze for boosting, sucker punch for priority, poison jab for coverage, and CC and Wicked blow for STAB. Losing one of these makes your match ups really polarizing. No poison jab? Fairy types bully you. No CC? magearna walls you entirely. No sucker punch? It gets outsped super easily due to its low speed. i think the scarf sets have potential but my problem with those is that it competes directtly with Chi-yu as a scarfed dark type, which is not an easy battle to win. At least it has a pivoting move and isn't weak to rocks.

Dawn wings is definitely the second best Pokemon in the tier if not the third (behind Arceus dark). I think it's incredibly good (although so many people are using the support set and not just the CM sweeper set for some reason) which just shreds through teams. It's incredibly challenging to fight against and will usually take at least 2 kills with it.

i think you're underestimating sun as a whole, especially since you have the best abuser in Chi-yu. It's way better than Rain and it's the best weather overall. Not that it's the most consistent thing but it can definitely be tricky to face when you have sun boosted overheats

I think trick room can be a tricky match up for certain team styles, more of a match up fish than a cheesy strategy. Offense in general is kind of not that great against it because you can almost always force 3 kills every time they set trick room. And it's not that hard to set trick room twice with tera. I think half room is definitely better than full trick room, mainly because a core of Magearna dawn wings Ursaluna is always good and always splashable.

Solgaleo and Dialga can definitely just go down a ton because they have fallen out of favor entirely. There is little reason to use the mon sadly, since Pao means you'll be forced to run Magearna anyways, and doubling in steel types is generally not great. It is really sad to have them drop this much.

Most of the others i agree with
i feel like the reason the support set is used a lot is that it just checks a lot of boxes in teambuilding, it may be a far cry from the sweeper, but having knock off, stealth rock and something to tank a random special hit such as magearna fleur cannon is just useful on builder.
 

Leo Justice

Ubers UU leader
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Rises:
:Magearna: Magearna from S- to S+
:Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings to S

:Arceus-Dark: Arceus-Dark from A+ to S-
:Chi-yu: Chi-yu from A to A+
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian from A- to A+
:Deoxys: Deoxys from A- to A
:Arceus-Poison: Arceus-Poison from B+ to A
:Terapagos: Terapagos to A-

:Arceus-Grass: Arceus-Grass from B+ to A-
:Garganacl: Garganacl from B to A-
:Arceus-Dragon: Arceus-Dragon from B to B+
:Arceus-Electric: Arceus-Electric from B to B+
:Deoxys-Speed: Deoxys-Speed from B to B+
:Iron Treads: Iron Treads to B
:Arceus-Fighting: Arceus-Fighting from C+ to B

:Cyclizar: Cyclizar from B- to B
:Rillaboom: Rillaboom from C+ to B
:Ursaluna: Ursaluna from B- to B
:Dragapult: Dragapult from C+ to B-
:Dugtrio: Dugtrio from C+ to B-
:Urshifu: Urshifu from C+ to B-
:Roaring Moon: Roaring Moon from C+ to B-
:Ditto: Ditto to C+
:Moltres: Moltres from C to C+
:Volcarona: Volcarona from C to C+
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta-Hero from C- to C+
:Alomomola: Alomomola from C- to C
:Tyranitar: Tyranitar from C- to C
:Dialga-Origin: Dialga-Origin from Unranked/D to C-

Drops:
:Mewtwo: Mewtwo from S- to A+
:Great Tusk: Great Tusk from A to A-
:Landorus: Landorus from A to A-
:Palafin: Palafin from A to A-
:Palkia-Origin: Palkia-Origin from A+ to B+
:Slowking Galar: Slowking Galar from A- to B+
:Solgaleo: Solgaleo from A+ to B
:Ogerpon-Hearthflame: Ogerpon-Hearthflame from A- to B

:Blissey: Blissey from B+ to B
:Dialga: Dialga from B+ to B
:Gholdengo: Gholdengo from B+ to B
:Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White from B+ to B
:Sneasler: Sneasler from B+ to B
:Galvantula: Galvantula from B to B-
:Regieleki: Regieleki from B to B-
:Walking Wake: Walking Wake from B to B-
:Skarmory: Skarmory from B to B-
:Corviknight: Corviknight from B to C+
:Excadrill: Excadrill from B to C+
:Mandibuzz: Mandibuzz from B to C+

:Arceus-Bug: Arceus-Bug from B- to C+
:Torkoal: Torkoal from B- to C+
:Gothitelle: Gothitelle from B- to C
:Pelipper: Pelipper from B- to C

:Ninetales-Alola: Ninetales-Alola from C+ to C
:Quagsire: Quagsire from B- to C-
:Archaludon: Archaludon from B- to C-
:Baxcalibur: Baxcalibur from B- to C-

:Garchomp: Garchomp from C to C-
:Arceus-Psychic: Arceus-Psychic from C- to D
:Espathra: Espathra from C- to D
:Heatran: Heatran from C- to Unranked
:Iron Moth: Iron Moth from C to Unranked
:Lokix: Lokix from C- to Unranked
:Lugia: Lugia from C- to D
:Maushold: Maushold from C- to Unranked
:Ogerpon-Wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring from C to Unranked
:Primarina: Primarina from C- to Unranked
:Reshiram: Reshiram from C- to D
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss from C- to Unranked
 
Last edited:

KineSquared

Ubers UU Founder
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
I gotta advocate for my GOAT iron treads making it higher than B, maybe B+ or even A-? It can legit always switch in on magearna. It can go red card, AV, it can threaten with EQ. deny volt switches, clear hazards, and much more. It creates a great core with the metal birds, and is one of the best utility mons in the format IMO.
 
Last edited:

Finchely

Third fraud on the scene
is a Pre-Contributor
I gotta advocate for my GOAT iron treads making it higher than B, maybe B+ or even A-? It can legit always switch in on magearna. It can go red card, AV, it can threaten with EQ. deny volt switches, clear hazards, and much more. It creates a great core with the metal birds, and is one of the best utility mons in the format IMO.
To preface, mag is basically mandatory on most if not all good teams, that is something i will not be debating, it is literally S+ on the VR. I 100% agree that iron treads has some really good traits. Knock off spinner that can swap into mag and even threaten it with eq is frankly incredible. However it's just not at all easy to fit onto teams. Mag on a team means that running treads is stacking a steel type which really isn't good. Of the relevant things in the meta, it means stacking a ground and fire weakness, and it also means that you're losing out on a teamslot that could be spent covering other important bases that you need to hit. Despite the fact that Terapagos doesn't have a pivoting move, can't swap into mag, doesn't really threaten mag, and doesn't even have knock off, it's still a better spinner for it's niche of providing a ghost immunity as well as having the rarely-distributed move toxic. Iron Treads' position of viability can basically be dumbed down to "Has a unique strong niche, but is difficult to slot onto teams" which I'd say suits the rank of B rather well
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 4)

Top