Resource SV UU DLC 2 Viability Rankings- Update at Post #180

[ThatOneApple]

I find it hard to believe Reuniclus is struggling in a tier like UU given its past history. I'm pretty sure it has coverage to hit everything neutrally unless Game Freak removed moves from it. And I'm theorymonning that a bulky Tera Reuniclus into a good defensive type greatly benefits it

Look, i can fully understand where youre coming from, as a magic guard mon in a hazard stack meta with little removal does sound very nice. Unfortunately in practice it just ends up getting offensively overwhelmed by almost anything due to is meh bulk and bad type. Tera doesnt really help it enough to make dedicating tera to it worth. 90% of the reason reun was used was because it sat on garg.

 

[NobodyActually]

Do you need a latios check? Do you need a garchomp check? Do you need something that can disrupt psychic terrain and be immune to hazards?
Well do not fear.. because we have bronzong!
Nomming from UR --> C

I think bronzong is a very slept on pick in the metagame right now and has a lot of potential to be a solid wall. There are two main sets I would like to talk about, the first being a defensive invested bronong. This bronzong checks the arguably two best pokemon in the tier, latios and garchomp. It resists all of Latios's stabs and does enough damage with gyro ball to offset leftovers + recover healing on cm latios sets. It checks chomp with ice spinner, ohkoing offensive chomp at -1 and chunking tankchomp heavily. This ice coverage differentiates itself from the other steel psychics with its ability to check the omnipresent garchomp, hydrapple, and grounds, and being able to heavily disrupt psychic terrain by switching into indeedee and removing the terrain with spinner, allowing your other pokemon to have an easier time dealing with the threats that are commonly present in terrain teams. Another advantage it would have over the other 3 steel psychic types is its ability, levitate. This allows bronzong to essentially be immune to hazards with leftovers, only taking 6%, which is invaluable in this metagame where removal is scarce. Bronzong is also far from a passive wall. Moves like gyro ball, body press, and earthquake do solid damage to the mons it wants to answer (crown, lati, leaves, oger?) as well as allowing it to take a hit from offensive monsters and ohko them back (moth, greninja). Defensive bronzong also has a multitude of utility options such as stealth rocks, screens, future sight, and trick room.

The other set I would like to talk about is a choice band bronzong. At first this might seem like a shitpost to you but this bronzong can catch a lot of mons offguard and OHKO them like tankchomp, hydrapple, iron crown with spikes, lati, lokix, torn with rocks, oger, moth, and quaquaval just to name a few. As mentioned before it also has ice spinner to completely decimate psy terrain teams and trick to distrupt setup mons. Even with only max hp bronzong is still ridiculously tanky and can stomach a lot of super effective hits like dark pulse from gren somewhat easily. If you want a choice banded psychic steel you might just want to use metagross but bronzong isnt that much weaker when you are facing the targets you want to hit (fast offensive setup mons) and ice coverage to kill chomp and levitate to allow you multiple switchin oppportunities more than makes up for it.

calc

252+ Atk Choice Band Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 375-442 (124.5 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 399-471 (132.5 - 156.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So why now?
The meta recently has been very favorable to bronzong lately with 3 of its biggest checks/counterplay leaving the tier. Iron treads resisted both of bronzongs stabs and could knock it fairly easily. The omnipresent spin also allowed for hazards to not be on the field that often, which meant that one of the main reasons to use bronzong over metagross was gone (resistance to hazards). Ceruledge also gave it a lot of trouble with both its stabs being able to heavily dent it. Lastly, alomomola hard walled bronzong and exploited it to wish up its teammates. All three of those mons being gone means bronzong is in a much better place now, especially with the drops also being very favorable towards it.

Anyways, I hope more people can try out bronzong and I think it differentiates itself and has a useful niche with the unique attributes it brings to the table. Im also excited to watch UUPL games, even though i wasnt drafted, and see how the metagame develops :). Thanks for reading and go try out bronzong!

 

[Szark]

I am feeling radical today
B -> B-

Cloak Sinischa was one of the best Gargancl answers thanks to Ghost typing, Grass stab, Recovery and Calm Mind potentially becoming a win condition of its own. Without Garg around it lost that very distinct niche. It retains the niche of being a spin blocker and bulky win condition.

I do however believe it's just outclassed in this niche. and both fill similar niches.

Let's start with . Similarily to Sinis it's a physically bulky spinblocker. However Pecharunt is just bulkier on both sides, at least until Sinis starts setting Calm Minds. It makes it easier for Pecha to come in to do its primary job, Recover as well is just most of the time better recovery move as it's less exploitable. Pecha can simillarily act as a wincon with Nasty Plot though it fits that role less well because it can't boost its special defense and become unbreakable. Now the biggest thing for me. Sinistcha is absolutely horrible into Mandibuzz, it has no way of threatning it so it can't spinblock it, it needs to commit Tera to not get hit by Toxic, in theory it can use Tera Poison or Steel to set up Calm Minds but that's exploitable in its own right. Pecharunt is immune to Toxic by default, can threaten to Toxic Mandibuzz itself and can at least hit it neutrally.

is another bulky grass type with boosting capabilities. It is, once again, bulkier than Sinistcha. While it doesn't have a recovery move it does make that up in form of Regenerator which often means it has much easier time staying alive for longer. Hydrapple bolsters Nasty Plot with pretty amazing movepool. It is a far more threatning pokemon once it hits the field and often times has easier time doing so.

Finally matches pretty poorly into nearly all if not all of A to S tiers. It hates Latios which makes tera Poison awkward, Chomp sets up on it and destroys tera steel and poison, Tornadus and Zapdos both threaten Cane, Gren has Dark Pulse, Kix has Knock and Turn, Mandibuzz was covered, Goltres sets up on it, Pecha can poison it and Azu is the closest to good match up.

 

[JoeMama]

C+ -> B-/B
Despite being quite a niche and flawed mon, it is now the only ground type rapid spinner in the tier. And if against the traditional tank-chomp set it can threaten it out with Ice-spinner. Not to mention rapid spin + knock is great utility in one slot but donphans awkward stat spread (notably mediocre - low special bulk) leaves something to be desired. And either taking up the ground slot or running 2 grounds limits teambuilding to a certain extent. But due to its distinct niche I can see it rising slightly, even though B rank might be overzealous currently. The utility of annoying tank chomp, tinkaton and pex is one slot though is certainly something of note IMO.

 

[Bruxish supremacy]

I am feeling radical today
B -> B-

Cloak Sinischa was one of the best Gargancl answers thanks to Ghost typing, Grass stab, Recovery and Calm Mind potentially becoming a win condition of its own. Without Garg around it lost that very distinct niche. It retains the niche of being a spin blocker and bulky win condition.

I do however believe it's just outclassed in this niche. and both fill similar niches.

Let's start with . Similarily to Sinis it's a physically bulky spinblocker. However Pecharunt is just bulkier on both sides, at least until Sinis starts setting Calm Minds. It makes it easier for Pecha to come in to do its primary job, Recover as well is just most of the time better recovery move as it's less exploitable. Pecha can simillarily act as a wincon with Nasty Plot though it fits that role less well because it can't boost its special defense and become unbreakable. Now the biggest thing for me. Sinistcha is absolutely horrible into Mandibuzz, it has no way of threatning it so it can't spinblock it, it needs to commit Tera to not get hit by Toxic, in theory it can use Tera Poison or Steel to set up Calm Minds but that's exploitable in its own right. Pecharunt is immune to Toxic by default, can threaten to Toxic Mandibuzz itself and can at least hit it neutrally.

is another bulky grass type with boosting capabilities. It is, once again, bulkier than Sinistcha. While it doesn't have a recovery move it does make that up in form of Regenerator which often means it has much easier time staying alive for longer. Hydrapple bolsters Nasty Plot with pretty amazing movepool. It is a far more threatning pokemon once it hits the field and often times has easier time doing so.

Finally matches pretty poorly into nearly all if not all of A to S tiers. It hates Latios which makes tera Poison awkward, Chomp sets up on it and destroys tera steel and poison, Tornadus and Zapdos both threaten Cane, Gren has Dark Pulse, Kix has Knock and Turn, Mandibuzz was covered, Goltres sets up on it, Pecha can poison it and Azu is the closest to good match up.

Hydrapple does learn recover btw

 

[udongirl]

tornadus therian… A/Aplus
This mon does not like the fact that hazard has become more difficult to remove and feels more reliant on less accuracy moves. power creep makes its raw bulk more unreliable. It is still great because of its speed and, second only to greninja, and ability, but clearly not as strong as the other S.

 

[Twilight]

I already did some noms on Discord (Pex, Rachi, etc.) but going to add a few more

Rises

Iron Crown A- -> A
Crown feels great to me and is very flexible. Imo the double dance sets are garbage, they are quite easy to manage with the reliance on Stored Power and multiple turns to boost. Booster Energy CM is easily the most threatening set and turns it into a great win condition alongside Tera + great coverage. I would also like to highlight Specs and Assault Vest. Specs is a great wallbreaker and pivot that takes advantage of its immediate power at the cost of being more prediction-reliant, but Volt Switch is relatively free with Chomp being a fake switchin so you can get initiative vs Slowking, Metagross, etc. AV takes advantage of its bulk and typing better letting you potentially trade with Pokemon like Greninja and Moth, while just making it better into Latios, Kommo-o, etc.

Ogerpon B+ -> A-
I know it dropped in the last slate but Ogerpon is so good and I value it a bit more than Rockpon solely due to the value of getting +1 Spe upon Tera. Phys Def Zapdos is the only Pokemon I think is a massive hurdle for Ogerpon to deal with but assuming you get the Knock Off without being punished or another partner doing it you can do fine in that matchup with SR up. Fast Encore is also just exceptionally good into the offensive metagame and punishes defensive teams alike.

Magnezone C+ -> B/B-
Magnezone just feels really effective to me. You can use Magnet Pull to trap Crown, Tinkaton, and Scizor. Specs Thunderbolt is strong enough to either remove them or keep them low. Analytic is also viable because Zone does a good job of forcing switches. Most Zapdos are not running Heat Wave anymore so it forces it out, Toxapex is fodder, and with our Ground being Chomp Flash Cannon is a good midground.

Drops

Pecharunt A -> Lower (B+ imo)
Fraudulent Pokemon that I still believe was ranked way too high. I have used it on HO and imo Gengar is just better there. As someone who predominantly enjoys using bulky offense, there is not one time where I have thought 'this is a Pecha angle'. Pecharunt wants to play a slow game where it progressively tries to put its offensive and defensive checks on a timer, which limits the playstyles it fits on to mostly balance and stall. It requires the necessary building support to allow for this. I don't think it offers enough positives to fit on anything else.

From my experience using and playing against it, you can overwhelm the Pokemon with most aggressive team while fat just sends in Pex and spams Haze or beats it with CM Shadow Ball Blissey. Unless explicitly running Toxic it feels like unless it hits the Poison off Sludge/Malignant it cannot guarantee enough free turns to cycle with Recover against anything offensive. The tier is filled with strong special breakers like Latios, Gren, Goltres, Kommo-o, etc. The latter stonewalls Bomb variants. Other stuff like Garchomp and Tinkaton are also annoying hurdles to overcome. You can resolve some of these with Tera but like with anything you also open it up to other stuff as a result. I acknowledge it is incredibly good as a win condition for fat playstyles, but with how one-dimensional it is and lack of splashability I have not seen it put in the work to justify an A ranking.

Keldeo A- -> B+
Keldeo is still good but the prevalence of Latios, Slowking, Toxapex, and Azumarill is just too obnoxious for too many of its sets. Choiced sets become too reliant on Flip Turn + enough support to deal with them. CM is easily the best set with Taunt to shut down Pex and Slowking but it is rather reliant on Tera Steel to be as effective. I think a drop is reasonable.

Hisuian Goodra B -> B-
I think Hoodra is a weird Pokemon. It has a decent defensive profile but being a Steel that does not resist Draco is so sad in Latios tier. The loss of Alo is also a big hit for it. It is kinda hard to justify using it a lot of the time.

UR

Fezandipiti
It is a Fairy that loses to Garchomp and Latios.

 

[Monky25]

Hey UU, we’re back with yet another VR update (2 in 1 month, pretty crazy!). Ever since the last update, a lot of nominations have been made both in the thread and internally to where we felt that the already long list that would surely increase with shifts could benefit from being shortened down before tier shifts happen. As such, we ended up voting and have this as the VR representing the tier right before tier shifts happen. Reasoning will be below for the changes this time. Also, hariyana grande has chosen to step down from the VR team. We thank you for all the time you have put in and we welcome you back anytime! Now, onto the update

Rises
to A: Just read Twilight’s post above, this was the last one to write and I’m tired.
to A: Despite dropping last update, Slowking has been extremely trending as of late with Slowking balance becoming a major playstyle of the metagame. The pivoting support Slowking provides is unmatched, being able to come in, take a lot of hits, and slow pivot out to bring in a threat. Just about anything doesn’t mind being paired with a Slowking. Thunder Wave variants in particular are very common due to how good paralysis is, being able to cripple Pokémon like Latios, Tornadus-T, Iron Moth, Iron Crown, Kommo-o, and many more. Slowking’s defensive profile also lets it check foes like Keldeo, Terrakion, and Mamoswine which can be troublesome for many teams to handle. The Mon is definitely in the top 10 for many players despite residing in RU, but maybe this coming shift Slowking will earn its rightful place as UU by usage.
to A: This tier a year ago had Tinkaton at very high viability, and after a long road this tier a year later still ends up with Tinkaton in high viability, even after the ban of Galarian Moltres. It’s the tiers best Steel- and Fairy-type, checking foes like Latios, Greninja, Mandibuzz, and the Ogerpons with a naturally good typing. Its utility cannot be understated, for Knock Off, Encore, and either Stealth Rock or Thunder Wave depending on who it is paired with does so much for so many teams, and it doesn’t hurt that top tiers like Slowking and Garchomp are its best partners. Tinkaton balance, similar to Slowking balance, is a top tier archetype right now, and Tinkaton has finally returned to being a top tier in the metagame that warrants an A rank. Crazy to think this Mon was almost a C tier at one point.
to A-: Like Slowking, Ogerpon fell last update, but it has quickly risen up due to a burst in usage we’ve seen over the last 3 weeks with its pivot set. It’s just a really consistent and valuable Pokemon on teams with its potent offensive output and ability to utilize Embody Aspect + Encore, coming in clutch vs a lot of Pokémon like Garchomp, Greninja, and Latios while acting as a pseudo scarfer for a lot of teams. It alone poses a massive threat to HO after the ban of Galariam Moltres and just is a great Pokemon right now that enters back into the A ranks.
to B+: Mienshao has been seeing a surge in usage that definitely reflects it to be a strong option in the metagame as a great alternative to Terrakion as a Choice Scarf user. In a tier with little hazard removal, Regenerator is a massive benefit to using Mienshao with its heightened longevity. Knock + U-turn provides useful support that Terrakion doesn’t in enabling teammates as well as being less prediction reliant, not to mention CC + Ice Spinner is great offensive coverage. Terrakion’s offensive output as a Scarfer is pretty great as well as its better bulk, so it is the better Pokemon, but Mienshao is not far behind at all and ends up a subrank below Terrakion to reflect their viabilities.
to B: Psychic Terrain has settled down a lot now but even after rising to B- the VR team felt it was best to raise it again, for Psychic Terrain is about on par with webs and Grimmsnarl screens, so Indeedee rises to B to reflect the playstyle being just as good., Note that Polteageist remained B- because it’s not a staple on terrain.
to B-: Basically the same reasoning as last time, Magnezone structures are pretty potent right now at enabling threats like Latios and Ogerpon-Cornerstone by trapping and removing steels. Magnezone has actual steels it can trap now like the trending Tinkaton, Empoleon, and can even handle Scizor and Metagross too, so a continued rise seems natural.
to C: Checks Latios and Garchomp, the two S ranks (spoilers), as well as puts a stop to Stored Power Iron Crown bs and Psychic Terrain as a whole. Can set up Stealth Rock too if needed. Def isn’t bad enough to warrant a C rank placement.
to C: Kilowattrel has seen some experimentation as a fast offensive Electric-type, noticeably getting the jump on Tornadus-T and Greninja which the others fail to do. STAB combo is pretty nice and we’ve seen some teams opt to use Weather Ball with Slowking to take out Dragon-types more easily. Had a pretty large consensus to get ranked at C and might even rise in the future depending on how the meta changes.
to C: Noivern is ranked as a fast offensive pivot who gets the jump on typically fast threats like Latios, Tornadus-T, and Greninja while using Dragon + Fire coverage to hit a lot of the frailer metagame hard. Its typing + Roost gives it serviceable enough defensive utility as well. Not much to say really, it's good enough to land a spot on the VR at C and that’s it.

Drops
to A+: The king of UU for the last 6 months has finally fallen off. Tornadus is still an incredible pivot and progress maker, having a great blend of offensive and defensive utility to provide to teams. However, it’s still just not on par with the impact Garchomp and Latios have on the tier. AV has fallen off due to our removal situation which lowers its overall bulk when it comes to taking hits. Offensive sets aren’t super potent and in general Torn just feels less required on teams than it did before, facing a fair amount of competition from Zapdos which has a better typing right now. It’s not good enough to be within the S ranks and it’s not that far from Zapdos in viability, so now Tornadus resides in A+ as a top 3 option for many but just not enough to be S.
to A-: The initial hype regarding Pecharunt has fallen off lately. It’s still a strong Pokemon but it requires a bit more support to work as well as a Tera reliance at times and the rise of Pokemon like Tinkaton and Iron Crown do it little favors. It takes a while to get going really and teams haven’t had too much trouble taking it out before it outlasts its checks, even though it still has the potential to do so. Pecharunt isn’t as consistent or splashable as the rest of A so it drops to A-.
to B+: Keldeo has been falling off lately to not hang onto the A ranks. The continued dominance of Azumarill and Latios, two big issues, as well as the growing prevalence of both Slowking balance and Toxapex balance as well as offensive checks like Ogerpon means Keldeo is a lot less consistent as a breaker, sometimes even running into teams where it’s pretty useless. Choice Scarf sets, while still existent, aren't exactly a primary choice with Terrakion and Mienshao generally being favored revenge killers these days. It’s still a good Pokemon, don’t get me wrong, but it just struggles to click moves at times which isn’t reflective of what a Pokemon in the A tiers is.
to B; Amoonguss just hasn’t managed to keep up post Spore Ban. It doesn’t check much that other Pokemon wouldn’t do and gets overwhelmed fairly easily by hazards and the powerful offensive presences this tier has. It’s fallen out of favor from a meta stable to just a decent option to use, resulting in a drop to B tier.
to B: Jirachi, while flexible in the roles it can accomplish, fails to really do any effectively. As a Steel-type rocker, Tinkaton outclasses Jirachi due to the far better defensive typing it possesses which is huge since it can actually take on foes like Greninja and the Ogerpons. The Choice Scarf set hates Garchomp and Zapdos being such dominant presences, especially when it fails to outspeed +1 Garchomp which is THE benchmark to really outspeed. You can still use it but you’re pretty much forced into using Lokix as well or Mandibuzz to make up for the weaker MU. Wish + Protect is the most unique niche it has but Wish support isn’t really that valued on balance and doesn’t enable enough Pokemon well enough to warrant staying B+.
to B-: Hyper Offense is a very diverse archetype with a myriad of sweepers to utilize, but this can be a hindrance for the individual viability of many mons themselves due to having to compete with each other to make it onto a team. Feraligatr unfortunately fails to really stand out and make its way onto HO teams. Feraligatr is not bad, but it doesn’t really stick out on Psychic Terrain, screens, webs, or hazard stack compared to other options. It’s very powerful but still slower than common revenge killers at +1. It also suffers from 4MSS, wanting Ice Punch for Hydrapple, Crunch for Slowking, and Psychic Fangs for Toxapex and is limited no matter what it runs. It’s got serviceable defensive utility but not really on the level of other options like Azumarill or Garchomp. It’s still an ok sweeper but not really a primary choice for most HO teams, thus prompting a drop for it.
to B-: Gastrodon is just really awkward right now. It stuffs Zapdos, some Iron Crown variants, and most Greninja sets really well… and that’s it. Gastrodon generally suffers from a notable passivity in tandem with low stats that just lets it get run over by offensive threats and forced into Recover often which isn’t great for a defensive wall. Garchomp is the dominant Ground-type by far and Spikes + Recover isn’t letting Gastrodon keep up. There haven’t really been any successful builds with it and while it does have potential in the future Gastrodon ends up dropping for now.
to B-: It’s just a weird option to use, not much else to it. Doesn’t provide the utility you want it to provide and its role as a bulky trade wall isn’t too valuable when Hisuian Goodra gets overwhelmed so easily and lacks an offensive presence that really makes it difficult to bother using, especially with Gmolt going meaning one less target to beat in the short term.
to B-: Hydreigon just doesn’t stand out compared to our other Dragon-types at all, notably Latios and Hydrapple. Latios is faster and stronger overall, getting the jump on a crowded Speed tier containing Garchomp, Keldeo, Terrakion, and Cobalion, and between CM and Recover is more versatile and consistent as a sweeper that can afford to use its defensive utility. Hydreigon’s saving grace was its Nasty Plot set and how good it is against balance , but that set ends up ignored as well because Hydrapple also does very well with NP but is bulkier and has greater longevity which is essentially. Apart from taking on Draco switch-ins like Slowking and Metagross more easily because of STAB Dark Pulse, there isn’t a lot more Hydreigon does that makes it worth using, and so it drops.
to B-: Yet another drop to B-, Iron Leaves suffers similarly to Feraligatr where it only really fits on HO yet isn’t a super consistent option on it and thus just isn’t a presence in the metagame. It really needs the Speed boost from Booster Energy to stand a chance in a fast metagame but just doesn’t get many setup chances with its poor typing to get the attack boost it very much needs. It’s walled by Latios no matter what the 4th is and other metagame presences like Mandibuzz, Zapdos, and Lokix give it all sorts of trouble.
to C+; Quagsire lacks usage outside of stall builds which aren’t the best nor most common in the meta. As such, it makes more sense to have it in the same rank as Blissey who also only really appears on these types of teams, which is C+.
to C+: The ban of Garganacl was a big hit to an already flawed Pokemon which doesn’t have much of a reason to be used these days. It’s too slow, not bulky enough to boost into the offensive metagame, lacks the coverage it wants, and the Recover PP nerf just hinders Reuniclus beyond belief. Magic Guard in a Spikes heavy meta will keep it afloat this generation most likely but Reuniclus is just really niche these days and B- was even too high for it.
to C: This Pokemon is not good and keeps falling off. Kilowattrel is beginning to give Thundurus heavy competition due to outspeeding Greninja as well as STAB Hurricane. Might even go to UR the next update if these trends keep up.
to UR: Goltres is banned.
to UR: Fezandipiti just has lacked any relevant usage for months now and between losing to our two main Dragon-types and there being actual Steel-types in the tier now there isn’t a point to really using Fezandipiti. No reason to keep it ranked.
to UR: Hisuian Lilligant is what is referred to as a random cheese Mon. A random cheese Mon is an option you can use on HO where it will win a game here or there, but it gets carried in most MUs by its teammates and doesn’t possess any traits unique to the meta a sweeper would want except for just wanting to use the Mon itself. Hisuian Lilligant has a high ceiling but also a very very low floor with how inconsistent it is as a sweeper. Even ignoring Hustle, it lacks many setup chances due to awful and dangerous mons like Lokix and Zapdos put it out of commission very easily. HO is a stacked archetype and there are so many mons to use, and there really isn’t a reason to use Hisuian Lilligant compared to sweepers with greater consistency as well as better defensive utility. It also isn’t a large choice on the already niche sun. As such, Hisuian Lilligant is now UR.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

to UR: Hisuian Lilligant is what is referred to as a random cheese Mon. A random cheese Mon is an option you can use on HO where it will win a game here or there, but it gets carried in most MUs by its teammates and doesn’t possess any traits unique to the meta a sweeper would want except for just wanting to use the Mon itself. Hisuian Lilligant has a high ceiling but also a very very low floor with how inconsistent it is as a sweeper. Even ignoring Hustle, it lacks many setup chances due to awful and dangerous mons like Lokix and Zapdos put it out of commission very easily. HO is a stacked archetype and there are so many mons to use, and there really isn’t a reason to use Hisuian Lilligant compared to sweepers with greater consistency as well as better defensive utility. It also isn’t a large choice on the already niche sun. As such, Hisuian Lilligant is now UR.

Curious why you think so... it has bad MUs ofc like lokix and zapdos but it also has better ones that smth like iron leaves, ogerpon, and cornerstone dont have... H-lilligant is also much more useful without tera than smth like iron leaves... it falls flat with its typing, ogerpon isnt as strong without it and gets revenged pretty easily, they both have problems vs zapdos, and lokix as well.

+2 160 Atk Iron Leaves Psyblade vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ogerpon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 162-191 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 272-322 (70.8 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

certainly does more than them and its fairly easy to chip a zapdos into range while smth like iron leaves and ogerpon would struggle much more to pick off a zapdos. Like you are pretty much never beating zapdos, iron leaves requires tera (i heard that is a bad argument of needing tera to beat smth, cuz any mon can do it).

"Even ignoring Hustle, it lacks many setup chances due to awful and dangerous mons like Lokix and Zapdos put it out of commission very easily"

ogerpon and iron leaves have that problem to... i think this is a very one sided argument ur making when of all things H-lilli does better itno them than the other 2 grass types on HO. Put tera into the equation and sure... all can setup but then saying "huh CB scizor doesnt check chomp, it can just tera" is a pretty flawed argument... idt that is how it works and ive been criticized for saying using tera early to just win a MU is a bad use of it

Def utility.. ah you guys have mentioned it but smth it has is

1. FI neutrality.. this makes it after a victory dance boost hard to pick off. And without a boost it can live a hit from boots lokix

2. resisting dark can be a nice thing to have, this means vs mandibuzz it has a much better MU

3. with a defense boost from victory dance you can even setup on chomp and threaten it easily in return with ice spinner which the other 2 cant do. Smth like setup vs a ttar, empoleon, choice locked azu for ex... can be used to setup and make it much harder to revenge kill...

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant-Hisui: 136-162 (48.3 - 57.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon: 187-222 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Iron Leaves: 180-213 (52.1 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also, C tier is filled with pokemon that fill a similar category... you can ask yourself why should "insert C tier mon" be ranked yet they can all fill the category of "A random cheese Mon is an option you can use on HO where it will win a game here or there, but it gets carried in most MUs by its teammates and doesn’t possess any traits unique to the meta a sweeper would want except for just wanting to use the Mon itself"

I can ask myself why use salamence, why use bellibolt, why use reuniclus, and we all get specific scenarios we might use them in. H-lilli fills those to... it does stuff better than the other grass types and sometimes you would say "how much i wish i had ogerpon or iron leaves" but this is every mon that isnt B tier or higher... C tier is like that. Calling them shitmons is what C and C- represent in most tiers... in most other tiers this is what they represent

I would want to use h-lilli when i would want to capitalize off mu good MU's and make myself harder to teams that rely on priority to finish it off... it also has a much better MU vs mandibuzz which if you dont have tera on iron leaves you are going to find yourself often losing it to it and while mandibuzz can be overwhelmed, h-lilli doesnt need someone to babysit it for the mandi MU.

for ex. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2069899029 - if i didnt feel tired i wouldve easily tera'ed, and won on the spot, iron leaves and doesnt run tera ghost and would lose to mandibuzz regardless and even then h-arc in the back. Ogerpon stands no chance vs a mandibuzz and has to 50/50 if it will defog or just foul play it. H-lilli has to play with its acc but if you dont believe in winning/landing ur moves are u really playing pokemon....

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2069697467 no way iron leaves wouldve lived that FI, it would have to tera and play a mindgame of "will they switch out and come back in and sucker punch me". H-lilli did that job well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-2069622194?p2 shows that i didnt need tera to pull it off... also ogerpon would struggle to kill a boots torn-t

+2 252 Atk Tera Grass Ogerpon-Teal-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 248-292 (70.8 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Ice Spinner vs. 204 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 406-478 (116 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Ofc... you can say that "other mons can do it better" but you can say that about every low tier... there are situations where u wouldnt want them in, and there are situations where they fit the team, no matter how specific that is a niche. I think it is weird to drop such a mon.

 

[Geopolitics]

Not in charge of tiering/VR decisions (thank god) but I think Liligant-H gets outclassed substantially not just by grass types in the tier, but also setup sweepers.

HydreigonTheChild: It has bad MUs ofc like lokix and zapdos but it also has better ones that smth like iron leaves, ogerpon, and cornerstone dont have

Zapdos is an interesting example to choose to illustrate your point - I think if you're relying on +1 Hustle-boosted Ice Spinner (88%), avoiding getting para'd by Static (70%), dodging Hurricane (30%), then hitting another Hustle-boosted attack to beat Zapdos (88%), you don't reliably beat it and are better served by just switching out. Those calcs (by my admittedly bad math) give you a roughly 16% chance to beat Zapdos. Even if you manage to weaken Zapdos to 50%, you still have to hit Ice Spinner (88%) and dodge Static (70%) to be effective for the rest of the game: a 61.6% chance.

You're right that things like Iron Leaves and Ogerpon don't beat Zapdos - they're not able to overpower it, but it's not as if getting past Zapdos is a walk in the park for Lili-H either. Further, Oger-C just flattens Zapdos with Rock Cudgel. If Lili-H's argument is that it should be rated because it beats Zapdos, it not only doesn't do it reliably enough to warrant a ranking and it also gets stonewalled by a number of far more prominent threats:

​

​	[252hp/192+def]​	[248hp/244+def]​	[252hp/240+def]​
​	+1 Close Combat (34.5 - 40.7%)​	+1 Close Combat (62.6 - 73.9%)​	+1 Ice Spinner (70.8 - 83.8%)​
​	+2 Ivy Cudgel (67.4 - 79.9%)​	+2 Ivy Cudgel (122.4 - 144.6%)​	+2 Ivy Cudgel (156.2 - 184.3%)​
​	+2 Zen Headbutt (59.8 - 71%)​	+2 Play Rough (61.4 - 72.8%)​	+2 Knock Off (97.5 BP) (42.1 - 49.7%)​
​	+2 160 Atk Psyblade vs. (116.4 - 136.8%)​	+2 160 Atk Close Combat (52.7 - 62.1%)​	+2 160 Atk Psyblade (67.1 - 79.1%)​

There are two points I'm trying to illustrate here: (1) Lili-H's proffered benefit, beating Zapdos, isn't a particularly persuasive argument when it doesn't reliably do so; and (2) Lili-H does measurably worse than the competition versus the other Pokemon that threaten to stonewall prominent grass type attackers. While some of these examples are speculative (such as Ogerpon being forced to run Play Rough or Zen Headbutt), the point is that they have ways of beating these counters.

Victory Dance is a really cool move and obviously has its own benefits (such as insulation versus revenge killers like Lokix and Arcanine-H), but it also makes Lili-H worse at setting up on a switch and nuking the opponents answer when compared to Ogerpon-C, Ogerpon, and Iron Leaves Leaves (who all get Swords Dance).

Even if Lili-H was stronger, its speed tier leaves it in an awkward spot. Victory Dance's benefits are that it raises three stats at once, but only by one stage. You'd expect that as a trade off for not maximizing your offensive power, the boost from speed you'd get would allow you to outrun the rest of the metagame. That is not the case with Lili-H: because it sits at 105 base speed, it is outrun by prominent Choice Scarf users (Latios), Booster Energy merchants (Iron Moth), Weak Armor users (Armarouge, Polteagiest), and Embody Aspect Ogerpon.

In sum, I just don't think Lili-H has a niche. If you want a Grass-type physical attacker that beats Toxapex, use Iron Leaves; if you want a Grass-type physical attacker that beats Mandibuzz or Zapdos, use Ogerpon-C; if you want a Grass-type physical attacker with some utility, user Ogerpon. I think those three cover just about every niche a Grass-type physical attacker could hold, which leaves Lili-H with little (or no) place on the VR, imo.

 

[Szark]

At Zapdos argument

I do not believe it is correct to just look at calcs and say that doesn't beat Zapdos. While in the vacuum it might seem like it doesn't from the calcs I think it is really shallow way to look at it.

Ogerpon has access to Encore and bolsters a superior speed tier, this means it can switch in on Roosting Zapdos and force it out with it. That alone is going to cause mind games for the opponent. Now you have to make a call if its right to stay and Cane or switch out and risk opponent outpredicting you. It is very unique to be able to hard switch into Zapdos as a Grass type and force it out.

Furthermore while Ogerpon doesn't outright kill Zapdos with Knock it is still removing a (defensive) Zapdos HDB boots. So as long as Rocks are up, and they will be, now Zapdos is forced to take 25% every time it switches in. That is pretty big hinderance for a mon that is supposed to check you.

Speaking of that, Ogerpon kind off has a catch 22 when it comes to Zapdos. Ivy Crudgel is no contact and what you want from Zapdos to come in and punish those resisted hits, but Oger won't proc Static. Alternatively it can risk coming in on Knock and losing boots for the rest of the game which is less than ideal.

Oger might not look as impressive as Hilli or Iron Leaves from the calcs but it makes up for it in utility. Unlike these two its not item locked so it doesnt take chip damage from Hazards, which by the way makes this calc misleading.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Lilligant-Hisui: 136-162 (48.3 - 57.6%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon: 187-222 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Iron Leaves: 180-213 (52.1 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It is immune to Rough Skin, Rocky Helmet and Static. It can set up itself or teammates with Encore and it even has access to spikes. 110 speed tier is godsent and faster than the other 2 unboosted.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Not in charge of tiering/VR decisions (thank god) but I think Liligant-H gets outclassed substantially not just by grass types in the tier, but also setup sweepers.

Zapdos is an interesting example to choose to illustrate your point - I think if you're relying on +1 Hustle-boosted Ice Spinner (88%), avoiding getting para'd by Static (70%), dodging Hurricane (30%), then hitting another Hustle-boosted attack to beat Zapdos (88%), you don't reliably beat it and are better served by just switching out. Those calcs (by my admittedly bad math) give you a roughly 16% chance to beat Zapdos. Even if you manage to weaken Zapdos to 50%, you still have to hit Ice Spinner (88%) and dodge Static (70%) to be effective for the rest of the game: a 61.6% chance.

You're right that things like Iron Leaves and Ogerpon don't beat Zapdos - they're not able to overpower it, but it's not as if getting past Zapdos is a walk in the park for Lili-H either. Further, Oger-C just flattens Zapdos with Rock Cudgel. If Lili-H's argument is that it should be rated because it beats Zapdos, it not only doesn't do it reliably enough to warrant a ranking and it also gets stonewalled by a number of far more prominent threats:

	[252hp/192+def]	[248hp/244+def]	[252hp/240+def]
	+1 Close Combat (34.5 - 40.7%)	+1 Close Combat (62.6 - 73.9%)	+1 Ice Spinner (70.8 - 83.8%)
	+2 Ivy Cudgel (67.4 - 79.9%)	+2 Ivy Cudgel (122.4 - 144.6%)	+2 Ivy Cudgel (156.2 - 184.3%)
	+2 Zen Headbutt (59.8 - 71%)	+2 Play Rough (61.4 - 72.8%)	+2 Knock Off (97.5 BP) (42.1 - 49.7%)
	+2 160 Atk Psyblade vs. (116.4 - 136.8%)	+2 160 Atk Close Combat (52.7 - 62.1%)	+2 160 Atk Psyblade (67.1 - 79.1%)

Ok and what if you have leaf blade? ogerpon struggles with mandibuzz, zapdos, but can encore pex. Iron leaves can take advantage of pex but lsoes to zapdos and manidbuzz. Rock pon beats all 3.... but H-lilli can put the hurt into all 3 to.. leaf blade or tera blast is an option and depends on what ur going for.

It doesnt beat zapdos... i never said that but it does much better into it than leaves and ogerpon...Rock pon is the exception but i havent seen people run it and run regular ogepron for the speed boost.

There are two points I'm trying to illustrate here: (1) Lili-H's proffered benefit, beating Zapdos, isn't a particularly persuasive argument when it doesn't reliably do so; and (2) Lili-H does measurably worse than the competition versus the other Pokemon that threaten to stonewall prominent grass type attackers. While some of these examples are speculative (such as Ogerpon being forced to run Play Rough or Zen Headbutt), the point is that they have ways of beating these counters.

Sure... and h-lilli does better than them... ogerpon has to do the same gymnastics just to get past it... dodge hurricane, avoid static, and it does worse even then... if using play rough u deal with acc that so many people argue is a big problem.

Ok lets assume pex... (i run tera ghost solely for like pecharunt but since its dropping idt its as big of a deal).

+1 252 Atk Hustle Lilligant-Hisui Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

yeah it does worse than all of them but pex also is a mon that ir prob does worse in... every time you think of switching to a diff mon you lose MU's and win MU's.. if you go from iron leaves to ogerpon you lose to okidogi but you also gain new good MU's. This is smth that every mon has... the nicher the mon the more specific it is

Victory Dance is a really cool move and obviously has its own benefits (such as insulation versus revenge killers like Lokix and Arcanine-H), but it also makes Lili-H worse at setting up on a switch and nuking the opponents answer when compared to Ogerpon-C, Ogerpon, and Iron Leaves Leaves (who all get Swords Dance).

Even if Lili-H was stronger, its speed tier leaves it in an awkward spot. Victory Dance's benefits are that it raises three stats at once, but only by one stage. You'd expect that as a trade off for not maximizing your offensive power, the boost from speed you'd get would allow you to outrun the rest of the metagame. That is not the case with Lili-H: because it sits at 105 base speed, it is outrun by prominent Choice Scarf users (Latios), Booster Energy merchants (Iron Moth), Weak Armor users (Armarouge, Polteagiest), and Embody Aspect Ogerpon.

In sum, I just don't think Lili-H has a niche. If you want a Grass-type physical attacker that beats Toxapex, use Iron Leaves; if you want a Grass-type physical attacker that beats Mandibuzz or Zapdos, use Ogerpon-C; if you want a Grass-type physical attacker with some utility, user Ogerpon. I think those three cover just about every niche a Grass-type physical attacker could hold, which leaves Lili-H with little (or no) place on the VR, imo.

if i want a grass type that beats mandibuzz, can speed boost past the scarfers that would come after mandibuzz, and be stupid strong... ill take h-lilli...there are advantages and disadvantages to everything.

Sure getting +2 is unreasonably hard and I agree but at +1 most teams either have a scarf latios which fair.. its prob the bets thing but also smth like ogerpon also gets revenged by the same things and doesnt do much to moth, and ogerpon-c has no way to speed boost, iron leaves often loses to common priority which victory dance helps against.. and cc, leaf blade, spinner often deals with the tier ... i think its fine at C or C+ and it does its role well... being a stupid strong breaker that has its pros and cons...

Justifying nicher mons often comes with a "why would i use this" the lower it is the more specific it is, but i believe h-lilli has that. it has a place on the VR and out of most people here... ive used it the most and have success with it.

Ogerpon has access to Encore and bolsters a superior speed tier, this means it can switch in on Roosting Zapdos and force it out with it. That alone is going to cause mind games for the opponent. Now you have to make a call if its right to stay and Cane or switch out and risk opponent outpredicting you. It is very unique to be able to hard switch into Zapdos as a Grass type and force it out.

Furthermore while Ogerpon doesn't outright kill Zapdos with Knock it is still removing a (defensive) Zapdos HDB boots. So as long as Rocks are up, and they will be, now Zapdos is forced to take 25% every time it switches in. That is pretty big hinderance for a mon that is supposed to check you.

Ogerpon on HO usually doesnt want to come in and out.. and most teams like that cant afford to pivot in and out for zapdos to eventually get worn down... Yes encore is a good option but what if you guess wrong. you are gambling on 50/50 odds considering that zapdos can come right in even at 75% and if you encore into smth else that checks you, you are pretty much back at square one or worse if you got para'ed while clickingknock off

Speaking of that, Ogerpon kind off has a catch 22 when it comes to Zapdos. Ivy Crudgel is no contact and what you want from Zapdos to come in and punish those resisted hits, but Oger won't proc Static. Alternatively it can risk coming in on Knock and losing boots for the rest of the game which is less than ideal.

Oger might not look as impressive as Hilli or Iron Leaves from the calcs but it makes up for it in utility. Unlike these two its not item locked so it doesnt take chip damage from Hazards, which by the way makes this calc misleading.

It is immune to Rough Skin, Rocky Helmet and Static. It can set up itself or teammates with Encore and it even has access to spikes. 110 speed tier is godsent and faster than the other 2 unboosted.

Pros and cons to everything... ogerpon brings utility in a HO game where most other members try to brute force it.. ivy cudgel wont proc static but knock will... and trying to fish it esp against other mons and zapdos comes in cna lead it to being ruined.

I think h-lilli also does well enough vs zap... offensive zap doesnt want to come in to +1 h-lilli while defensive zap is much easier to chip into range like u said.

Ogerpon can encore it and put itself itno a good position but h-lilli can straight up kill off zap and def zap takes 70-83... wdyt about that.. do you think that is hard to achieve?

Also btw idt ogerpon runs spikes on HO... maybe on balance or BO where it has the turns to do so...

 

[ThatOneApple]

Yay VR Shifts!
Thoughts abt some of them

Rises


Putting these together bc my thoughts on them kinda go together
These three alongside lokix potentially make for a great core for balance teams to build off of. Speed control with regen in the form of scarf mien, a fairy/steel with encore and rocks, and a slowpivot with regen and twave is just so nice for building.


This kinda ties back into the last point but this guy goes well with the previously mentioned core by running weather ball to put pressure on some grounds while acting as special speed control. Its definitely flawed but it can put in work so i think its earned a spot on the VR.


Drops

Makes sense, without spore it lost the majority of its pressure and thus it doesnt really force uncomfortable situations for the opponent anymore. Also now that garg is gone he really doesnt do much that other defensive regen mons dont.


Kinda unrelated but i find it funny that this was dropped and then it immediately did pretty well in a UUPL game.


Id have probably dropped it lower as I barely see any reason to bother with this mon now that garg isnt present, but maybe im just missing something. Perhaps some sort of regen set could be worth looking into?

Overall I agree with these shifts, but im kinda wondering as to why pex didnt drop, as that mon kinda feels overrated with how passive it is.

 

[Monky25]

Hey VR enthusiasts, we’ve got yet another update to the UU VR! With all three of the new drops staying in UU for the foreseeable future, we’ve decided to update the VR to account for the metagame developments that are affected by these new drops as well as general changes over time, especially with UUPL well underway. Due to the size of these changes, I won’t explain every single change, but like usual there will be a 48 hour question period where you can ask questions about any of the changes to the new VR. Same rules as always, don’t repeat questions and please refrain from nominations until after this period is up.

New Drops
to A
to A+
to A-

Rises
to A
to A
to A-
to A-
to B+
to B
to B
to C+
to C+
to C (from UR)
to C (from UR)
to C (from UR)

Drops
to S-
to A-
to A-
to B+
to B+
to B+
to B+
to B
to B
to B
to B-
to B-
to B-
to B-
to B-
to B-
to B-
to B-
to C+
to C+
to C+
to C+
to C+
to C+
to C
to C
to C
to C
to C
to C
to C
, , , , , , , , , , , , and all to UR

 

[ThatOneApple]

to C+

I understand why all the other rises happened but what exactly prompted this one? Haven’t really seen much of it so I’m kinda unsure what the reason it rose is.

 

[Corporate Donkey]

to C (from UR

It’s returned

 

[StarFalcon555]

Why is Skeledirge only at A-? I thought it would be a lot better considering its previous stint in the tier.

Why were Espeon and Wo-Chien ranked?

 

[Goombatower69]

Why is Skeledirge only at A-? I thought it would be a lot better considering its previous stint in the tier.

It just doesn't feel right anymore ya know, it's not as bulky as it used to be, it's not as snowballing as it used to be, the 2 best physical attackers force it to be a tera hog and Exca just flat out ignores its ability that makes it as good as it was. Additionally, the main thing it used to check is banned and hopefully will NEVER return. But I do think it is a bit underexplored

 

[Szark]

Sinis gets a spinner to block finally and instantly falls.

What happened to Mandi that it fell from A? I didnt think much has changed for it.

 

[MC Squared]

Sinis gets a spinner to block finally and instantly falls.

What happened to Mandi that it fell from A? I didnt think much has changed for it.

My assumption is its passivity and Garchomp gives it a bad day

 

[Monky25]

I understand why all the other rises happened but what exactly prompted this one? Haven’t really seen much of it so I’m kinda unsure what the reason it rose is.

Iron Jugulis is just a little bit more potent right now on HO builds with the exact same STAB combo as the now banned Galarian Moltres, outspeeding and nailing lots of the tier such as Latios, Iron Crown, and Ogerpon. Coverage options like Earth Power for Tyranitar and Tinkaton as well as Taunt for walls like Mandibuzz can make it tough to answer in the moment. Of course, it’s still limited by not so great bulk or power, having to rely on flinches a good bit to really break through bulky Pokémon like Tornadus-T and Zapdos, as well as lacking setup moves and suffering from the nature of Booster Energy being a one time use, but it’s just a little bit more potent to end up in C+ over C.

Why is Skeledirge only at A-? I thought it would be a lot better considering its previous stint in the tier.

Why were Espeon and Wo-Chien ranked?

Skeledirge is a lot more tera reliant than it was in prior metagames and the tier just has a lot more punishers for each tera type than before. It’s why Tera Fairy isn’t even the main Tera type used these days, wanting Water or Steel depending on what you need it to check on your team. Still, with Tera it’s a fantastic wall, using Tera Water to handle dangerous foes like Garchomp, Azumarill, Iron Crown, and Greninja, while Tera Steel is nice to check Latios and the Ogerpons. It can be tailored to beat what the team needs, but a general tera reliance plus the stronger meta means Skeledirge ends up in A- as its starting rank

Espeon has a small niche on psyspam teams as a CM sweeper or screens setter that notably packs Magic Bounce, deterring hazards from the ever-dominant Garchomp and a good amount of Tinkaton who are Pickpocket. Even with terrain’s drop on the VR, this niche was still considered valuable enough to warrant a rank at C. Meanwhile, Wo-Chien is ranked at C due to its potent walling capabilities, being able to check many foes like Garchomp, Excadrill, and Latios all at once while being less reliant on Heavy-Duty Boots compared to something like Mandibuzz. It's still underexplored and kinda passive with RestTalk but Wo-Chien has a good niche for now that could potentially be utilized more as more metagame developments happen.

Sinis gets a spinner to block finally and instantly falls.

What happened to Mandi that it fell from A? I didnt think much has changed for it.

Mandibuzz dropped due to many VR team members feeling that Mandibuzz was less splashable due to not only a lesser need for removal with the drop of Excadrill but also due to how abusable it can be at times. We’ve seen trending options such as Azumarill getting even more usage, Iron Moth, Ogerpon-Cornerstone, Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Kommo-o who all don’t really care much about Mandibuzz. It’s also kinda a fake check to a lot of things, being prone to getting overloaded easily. To simply check Garchomp alone already leaves Mandibuzz basically dead and struggling to find a chance to Roost. These reasons together all prompted a drop to A-.

 

[Szark]

A -> somewhere lower

Anyone watching UUPL knows this mon gets absolutely no results. It feels like it should be good but there are just so many things holding it back. As an attacker it often feels just slightly too weak and too frial, it's main attacking options lower it's stats and it really wants to use offensive items. Eject Pack often feels like it lacks power while Life Orb like it lacks longevity. Its not that uncommon for Deo-S to not even grab a single kill, and it majorly struggles with dealing damage to Steel-Psychics and Tinkaton.

I am not quiet sure how good is suicide lead Deo-S but I struggle seeing it on par with more consistent A tier mons.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

A -> somewhere lower

Anyone watching UUPL knows this mon gets absolutely no results. It feels like it should be good but there are just so many things holding it back. As an attacker it often feels just slightly too weak and too frial, it's main attacking options lower it's stats and it really wants to use offensive items. Eject Pack often feels like it lacks power while Life Orb like it lacks longevity. Its not that uncommon for Deo-S to not even grab a single kill, and it majorly struggles with dealing damage to Steel-Psychics and Tinkaton.

I am not quiet sure how good is suicide lead Deo-S but I struggle seeing it on par with more consistent A tier mons.

I still think the speed advantage and sash/utility sets definitely force some not so healthy dynamics, especially sash+NP sets that remedy its lack of power. Drop it to A- though for now, I think it will end up being a problem after Garchomp goes since as a hazard stacker it can fill the void if and when chomp will leave. I think this pokemon has a good chance of being broken or unhealthy with time.

 

[ThatOneApple]

I still think the speed advantage and sash/utility sets definitely force some not so healthy dynamics, especially sash+NP sets that remedy its lack of power. Drop it to A- though for now, I think it will end up being a problem after Garchomp goes since as a hazard stacker it can fill the void if and when chomp will leave. I think this pokemon has a good chance of being broken or unhealthy with time.

Deo would not fill the void of chomp as a hazard setter in the slightest. Sure it has both hazard but thats where the similarities end, as it lacks the bulk and offensive prowess chomp has that lets it get hazards up. Deoxys also really needs all 4 attacks in order to fit the coverage it wants meaning it cant really fit a hazard too well unless its a dedicated lead, and plot sets really havent shown to be that scary. It also really wants a boosting item, as base 95 offenses is kinda bad when you're mostly using non-stab moves. Overall the high speed is cool but needing a boosting item like expert belt or life orb alongside the fact that it kinda wants 4 attacks to be as threatening as possible hold it back, and it really isnt broken at all.

The hazard lead set isnt bad, but its restricted to HO due to the fact that it likely isnt getting hazards up more than once. And as for the sash plot sets, well its an offensive deo without 4 attacks or a boosting item, which feels like its asking to get sat on by something. Eject pack sets do seem interesting potentially, but i havent really seen enough out of them to be convinced about them due to the weakness of not having a boosting item.

Deo really hasnt had many good performances in UUPL either as Szark stated so i agree that this drop is probably justified, even if only to A-.

 

[Monky25]

Hello UU, we’ve got a short update for you. Our initial plan was to vote on all Pokemon S to B+ in an effort to rework our list of Pokemon considered part of the metagame with now three weeks of UUPL going by. However, this was dependent on the result of the Garchomp test, and the vote was canceled due to its ban. Still, after internal discussion, we’ve evaluated that there are a few changes that likely would be made with or without Garchomp in the tier and ended up discussing making the following changes that ended up happening. While we should be cautious for metagame developments post Garchomp and not make hasty nominations, after careful discussion we found these changes to be reflective even post Garchomp too.

to S: Excadrill has taken over the metagame, there’s no doubt about that. The combination of its typing, offensive prowess, and utility lend to it being a diverse and flexible Pokemon that can function as an offensive threat or utility spinner on many teams. Sword Dance sets are extremely scary to handle with its massive attack stat, good coverage, and ability to snowball thanks to Rapid Spin. On sand builds, it doesn’t have to worry about its slow initial speed and can focus on taking out the metagame with its crazy fast speed under sand. Utility Excadrill doubles as both a Stealth Rocks setter and remover that helps against foes like Tinkaton and the very deadly Tera Electric + Thunderbolt Latios. In a generation devoid of removal options this is an extremely valuable trait to possess. While it would’ve been S- due to Garchomp still having the title of S if it stayed, Excadrill now is S due to there being no other S ranks.
to A: The clanger has been explored a lot more lately with its potent set versatility, outright winning some games due to growing options. Physical sets like Clangorous Soul + 3 attacks and Dragon Dance + Taunt have been popular due to not only being deadly offensively but also taking out common answers to Garchomp such as Mandibuzz and Lokix. It also has some great defensive utility vs foes like Excadrill, Tyranitar, Hisuian Arcanine, and Ogerpon-Cornerstone, being reflected in defensive Stealth Rock sets. It’s grown to be one of the scariest threats in the tier and rises to reflect that.
to A: Tinkaton rises back up largely due to the very high usage it’s received in UUPL which highlights its strengths in the metagame. It’s tied for 5th overall with Zapdos and Lokix which are both undisputed top 10 Pokémon for almost every player. Its function as a real Steel-type against foes such as Latios, Deoxys, Lokix, and Ogerpon-Cornerstone is a large benefit to building and combined with an amazing secondary type and utility options like Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Encore, and Thunder Wave makes it understandable why it got as much usage as it did. While Tinkaton would’ve risen anyway most likely, the ban of Garchomp also helps as now it can’t swap into Tinkaton, force it to take damage from Rough Skin, and threaten a KO, not to mention Tinkaton can go back to running Leftovers rather than Air Balloon.
to A: Tyranitar is the best it’s been since pre home, being an absurdly powerful offensive threat that really has no switch ins. Sand has been a dominant playstyle with the Excadrill + Tyranitar core taking on a lot of the metagame at large, but Choice Band has been making a resurgence as well due to how potent its STAB combo is. With good natural stats and plentiful pivots, Tyranitar is able to come in against common foes like Slowking, Zapdos, Skeledirge, and Mandibuzz and just start picking off Pokémon one by one. It’s truly a titanic threat whose viability is best captured in A rank.
to B+: Empoleon has gotten zero uses across the 35 games of UUPL that have happened post shifts, which ends up being 70 total teams, which absolutely means that something with this little usage should not be in the A ranks. In general, Empoleon has been a bit flawed due to there being better Steel-type options as well as a lack of Pokémon to really check. The most common Latios set is Tera Electric + Thunderbolt which Empoleon loses to, and other developments like Iron Moth running Discharge and Kommo-o running fighting coverage aren't great for Empoleon’s viability. The Mon doesn’t offer much and shouldn’t be ranked as highly now.
to B+: The first time ever in UU history, Scizor has fallen out of the A ranks. This change would’ve definitely happened if Garchomp stayed, but even with a Garchomp ban, Scizor is really awkward to justify. Lokix outclasses it as a revenge killing pivot pretty badly, not only having a higher speed and stronger priority, but also just the nature of targets in the metagame being problematic for Scizor. Tinted Lens First Impression drops many foes like Excadrill, Greninja, Deoxys-Speed, Latios post Tera, and Iron Crown that Bullet Punch cannot do, resulting in just not many reasons to use Scizor especially when it’s a fake Steel at that. The dominance of Zapdos is also very troublesome for Scizor.
to B: Once up for debate on being broken, Pecharunt now falls into B tier. It’s gotten extremely little usage across tournaments as of late and it’s kinda reasonable to see why; it gets run over by HO which is extremely common in the metagame and takes a while to get going which leaves it broken to being taken out first. The dominance of Excadrill especially is painful due to it being immune to its Poison spreading capabilities. While Garchomp leaving theoretically helped it as it can try other tera types than Tera Fairy since it no longer has to fear being phased out by Dragon Tail, it loses by far its best partner and now Pecharunt will have even more difficulties getting past Pokemon like Tinkaton and Tyranitar without hazard support. In tandem with Excadrill now being considered the best Pokemon of the tier, it’s clear Pecharunt isn’t good enough to keep up with the meta and falls into B tier to reflect that it’s no longer part of it.
to B: Terrakion also had outright zero uses across UUPL so far and generally doesn’t have much reason to be used lately. People don’t like Choice Scarfers in general, preferring to use priority users + naturally fast Pokemon, but Terrakion especially has been outdone by Mienshao as a Choice Scarf Fighting-type due to KnockTurn support and Regenerator, which are just so much more valuable than Rock STAB for Zapdos and Tornadus. Other sets like Swords Dance and Choice Band are outdone by Pokemon like Ogerpon-Cornerstone and Tyranitar as well. Terrakion doesn’t have much of a place in the metagame anymore and falls out of the rank featuring parts of the metagame into B tier.
to B: While this update typically focused on adjusting Pokemon in the S to B+ ranks, we felt we had to vote on Cobalion due to it being severely underranked compared to its usage. Cobalion has stood out with its Iron Defense + Body Press sweeping set, using its great defense to boost up and offensively threaten a lot of Pokemon such as Mamoswine, Lokix, Azumarill, and Tinkaton as well as being able to check foes like Excadrill and Tyranitar with a good Tera. Volt Switch keeps it from being passive as well, and it can even compress Stealth Rock if needed. It’s still got its flaws, but with how much usage it’s gotten Cobalion has definitely proven itself to be more than a mediocre B- Pokemon and enters solid B tier to reflect it being more of a decent but underexplored Pokemon in the UU metagame.
to C+: We also ranked Mimikyu who has been getting good usage in UUPL as a sweeper and spinblocker on hazard stack HO teams, liking the chip provided by Deoxys-Speed as the setter as well as other teammates to take out foes like Tinkaton and Excadrill while also being pretty useful defensively with Disguise and taking out dangerous foes like Lokix, Kommo-o, and Latios. Certainly prevalent and viable enough to be ranked at C+.
to UR: We also voted to UR Bronzong, who’s niche was largely present of being a Spikes immune counter to Garchomp. Psychic Terrain has fallen off a lot, and Bronzong has failed to check Tera Electric Latios on numerous occasions, which is the main set you should be accounting for, so there’s really just no reason to use it and thus it falls to UR.
to D: With Garchomp gone there’s no reason to use this anymore. Galarian Weezing is a passive momentum sink that doesn’t excel at checking anything anymore than other Pokemon do, getting worn down into range of being KOed or getting vortexed by U-turn users into being forced out by the many, many Pokemon that threaten it. Just let this fall to RU really there’s no real reason to use Galarian Weezing now.