Resource SWSH LC Viability Rankings

[qweschuning]

I think people should take a hard look at porygon. Could be S but probably an S minus because theres only set worth fearing, imo. Once it gets an agility, mons just start falling over.

Vulpix to A - vulpix clicks w.e it wants and has a couple good sets that you never want to take SE dmg from, even stab overheat/weather ball level whole teams

bunnelby, cottonee, croagunk, mantyke, skrelpand wingull should all be unranked. Maybe less so wingull if you get some ties... Especially w lo.... But generally, yes, all of these mons have no place in the tier or are outclassed by another

 

[Peppermint Productions]

Quick response to ques’s thoughts:

I disagree on your point that croagunk is useless. It’s not good, but on webs with 14 speed it is worth a c tier ranking, plus it’s the only real option for a sweeper that resists fighting that hyper offense has these days

edit: it’s not the only hyper offense option I don’t know why I typed that. Nonetheless think it’s worthy of C minus tier

 

[PyProd]

I think people should take a hard look at porygon. Could be S but probably an S minus because theres only set worth fearing. Once it getsan agility, mons just start falling over.

Vulpix to A - vulpix clicks w.e it wants and has a couple good sets that you never want to take SE dmg from, even stab overheat/weather ball leand whole teams

bunnelby, cottonee, croagunk, mantyke, skrelpand wingull should all be unranked. Maybe less so wingull if you get some ties... Especially w lo.... But generally, yes, all of these mons have no place in the tier or are outclassed by another

I think Bunnelby is fine where it is, because despite being outclassed by Porygon at first glance, if it switches in on something slower, it has virtually no switch-in. Its priority can also help deal with weakened sweepers that are not Tyrunt due to Bunnelby naturally hitting hard. Bunnelby also can have use under Webs (even if the archetype has died a bit recently, I still see Dewpider in B+, and have myself seen some webs still being played). All the others mentioned can be unranked with glee, especially Skrelp: what is that thing ever doing in a game?


On an unrelated note, I would like to advocate for Bagon in C.

Now addressing Bagon means I must answer this question: what distinguishes Bagon from the other (and much more viable) Dragon-type sweeper Tyrunt? Sitting at a 14 or 15 speed tier, just like Tyrunt, it boasts similarly useful moves : Sheer Force-boosted Fire Fang and Zen Headbutt can make tearing through Pawniard, Ferroseed, Foongus, Mienfoo, Timburr, Mareanie pretty easy, provided some Knock support. These can be compared to Tyrunt's even stronger Close Combat and Strong Jaw-boosted Psychic Fangs (and Fire Fang), only Tyrunt doesn't actually need Knock support. Bagon's last slot can be decided between the perfectly accurate but weak Dragon Claw, the especially powerful but also pretty inaccurate Dragon Rush, or Rock Slide as a compromise which can OHKO Vullaby without risking much accuracy, at the cost of having no STAB, which can be bothering unlike on Tyrunt. Moreover, having no multi-hit move to beat Abra unlike Tyrunt kind of sucks, and it can struggle to break past Scraggy.

But what really distinguishes Bagon from Tyrunt in my opinion is its solo Dragon-typing. At first glance, not being able to set up on Vullaby unlike Tyrunt makes the rock dinosaur preferred without question (and honestly Tyrunt is way better than Bagon as a Dragon-type sweeper). However, Bagon's solo Dragon typing means it can set up much more reliably against the likes of bulky Water-types or Foongus, and no Rock-typing means Bagon actually resists Grassy Glide from Grookey and isn't weak to Mach Punch, it can therefore pack quite a punch even on Timburr matchups and can therefore feast on Balance teams quite well.

I think that among Pokémon such as Amaura or Wynaut, Bagon deserves a place in C. Its typing gives it a tiny niche over Tyrunt though Tyrunt should rightfully be preferred at any time.


Oh, also please rank Togepi, that set presented on the metagame discussion thread seems worth a ranking on the Viability Rankings (maybe a C too). A Fairy-type with Thunder Wave, Fire-typed coverage and a one-turn recovery looks notable enough.

 

[Fiend]

I've been doing some not-so stealthy updates when I had the time to do so. The changes are as follows below in the hide tag.

Hide

B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
mid B -> B-
mid B -> C
B- -> C
B- -> C-
B- -> C
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C-
C -> C- (this mon sucks)
C -> C-
UR -> C-
UR -> C-

To address some things in the thread: I don't think Tyrunt is as good as the Pokemon in B+ even after we moved the best Pokemon out of it. It really does just struggle with some basic things, and a variety of trends don't help it much. It's a good Pokemon with a general inclination towards being matchup dependant if it is not on Webs or Screens, and even if it is there are good ways to simply limit a Tyrunt unless you forgot about the DD Pokemon in the builder generally. I don't think it's seeing or should be seeing the same success as Mudbray or offensive Spritzee. I do love the dino though.

Amaura is awful and should feel bad. I do not like this one. See the hide tag.

If you could provide some decent replays of Litten, then perhaps we may be convinced to rank it. However I don't see the appeal of it at all and am disinclined at this time. This goes for Bagon, which just seems like a bad DD user without a weakness to Mach. Togepi has also failed to do anything meaningful for me because everyone knows it has Fire Blast and it doesn't hit that hard to begin with. It's not awful though, so I have tacked it onto C-.

One last note is that we are not looking at unranking anything at this time, but may eventually do so when if C rank gets full of any more aggressively not-good Pokemon without meaningful niches. This is why Bagon is probably never going to be ranked, and why Skrelp may someday be unranked.

 

[kirby of the jet]

I am not a great player at all, but I do think Phantump should be at least C- due to its curse stall set.
Phantump @ Oran Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 116 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Curse
- Giga Drain

 

[Fille]

I am not a great player at all, but I do think Phantump should be at least C- due to its curse stall set.
Phantump @ Oran Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Def / 116 SpA / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Curse
- Giga Drain

I am intrigued, but can't say I've ever seen this set before. Could you elaborate on how it works and what makes it good in the current metagame?

 

[kirby of the jet]

I am intrigued, but can't say I've ever seen this set before. Could you elaborate on how it works and what makes it good in the current metagame?

You usually switch it in a Pokemon like foongus when it goes for spore, then setup substitute and curse and if a Pokémon like say pawniard switched in while you have substitute up you can go for curse the next turn protect and then switch to a Pokémon that takes it‘s knock off. This makes it take like 50-60% and it can’t switch into Phantump again. Its primary threat being vullaby with berry juice, but if you do the same thing you can do to pawniard it at least removes its berry juice.
Sorry if stuff I said didn’t make sense I am bad at explaining things, if you want you could try the set out on an alt or something.

 

[PyProd]

I would like to nominate Bronzor to C-.

In a tier where a check to Porygon, Abra and Ponyta-Galar is most important, Bronzor has the niche of providing a sturdy check to these that doesn't get bypassed by these and is immune to trapping from the likes of Trapinch and Diglett. It also packs Stealth Rocks to further justify it on a team since you can give Onix another move such as Dragon Dance, Body Press, Endure, Protect or something. However, since it can't reliably hit any of the Pokémon that want to switch into it (best it can do is 3HKO Pawniard with Earthquake, it is left unable to do anything to Vullaby if it doesn't pack Toxic and in general it has relatively poor offenses). As such it is often a very passive presence, which doesn't warrant a higher rank than C- on the VR to me.

Still, I believe its upside in a Porygon, Abra and Ponyta-Galar metagame as a hard wall to them warrants a bit of its usage, as evidenced by Sciroccoo using it in Majors. I believe it is on par with things like Shellos, Wynaut, Mantyke and Drilbur atm.

Omanyte also should be ranked somewhere in C or B- in my opinion.

Despite Grookey and Timburr's presence, I have found Omanyte to still be a great player in a lot of the games I brought or saw it in. Grookey has been on the decline recently, and playing well against the ever-present Vullaby can reward you with the luxury of a Shell Smash which obliterates most common balances after a bit of chip on non-Grookey matchups. Being able to pack Weak Armor even on Shell Smash sets (which I like to call multifunction Omanyte) means that on Grookey matchups, it can also adopt a hit and run strategy, especially since it hits quite hard and your Water + Ice + Ground coverage hits pretty much everything, therefore Grookey doesn't really invalidate it. It can also have a niche as a hazard stacking Pokémon if that fits your teamstyle and/or playstyle, with its notable access to Knock Off, Spikes or even Toxic Spikes (although.. don't use that).

I prefer using Omanyte alongside another Flying-check (Pawniard most of the times) since Omanyte can't really check a Speed-boosted Vullaby reliably but can also alleviate pressure on Pawniard by checking Vullaby itself. That last point is huge considering any bit of chip on Pawniard is notable in a metagame filled with Porygon and Abra. It can also scout for Heat Wave Vullaby pretty safely, which is another option that's on the rise due to having to weaken Pawniard for Porygon and/or Abra. Omanyte can also avoid trapping, for all that's worth.

I believe it is on par with notably Archen and Farfetch'd, but I could see it being less viable than Charmander and Slowpoke which are also in B-, so C might be more appropriate, but I think it is a crime to not have this ranked.

 

[kirby of the jet]

I am intrigued, but can't say I've ever seen this set before. Could you elaborate on how it works and what makes it good in the current metagame?

I think it could be better to just show you, stall starts at turn 29: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8lc-1362783931-y5c6hm13v77lsv2qveh75xvqh85cln2pw

As you can probably tell I really like Phantump in both LC and it just being adorable, but I feel like it doesn’t get enough recognition as a good Pokémon to use in LC. It’s quite a good Pokémon for slowly chipping away at your opponent, with curse for damage and Oran Berry + Harvest
for healing. It’s main flaw is being weak to two very important Pokémon in the meta being Pawniard and Vullaby, the only thing that helps that is if they switch in while a substitute is up they get hit by curse meaning it’s free 50% chip damage to them due to protect (this strategy is also weak to Berry Juice Vullaby.) I think Phantump would work well with a Regenerator core (I hope I am using these terms correctly) as when it’s substitute is broken it can switch into regenerator Pokémon. Sorry if I was bad at explaining things I am kinda new to this.





Phantump @ Oran Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 5
EVs: 116 Atk / 196 SpD / 196 Spe
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Substitute
- Protect
- Curse

 

[yellowfin]

I think it could be better to just show you, stall starts at turn 29: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8lc-1362783931-y5c6hm13v77lsv2qveh75xvqh85cln2pw

As you can probably tell I really like Phantump in both LC and it just being adorable, but I feel like it doesn’t get enough recognition as a good Pokémon to use in LC. It’s quite a good Pokémon for slowly chipping away at your opponent, with curse for damage and Oran Berry + Harvest
for healing. It’s main flaw is being weak to two very important Pokémon in the meta being Pawniard and Vullaby, the only thing that helps that is if they switch in while a substitute is up they get hit by curse meaning it’s free 50% chip damage to them due to protect (this strategy is also weak to Berry Juice Vullaby.) I think Phantump would work well with a Regenerator core (I hope I am using these terms correctly) as when it’s substitute is broken it can switch into regenerator Pokémon. Sorry if I was bad at explaining things I am kinda new to this.

sorry to say this but i dont think phantump is that good. theres 1293808 knock off users per team, of which 3 outspeed phantump (vullaby, mienfoo, pawniard). you can't harvest oran berries back if they are removed by knock off (i believe; someone correct me if i'm wrong) meaning that the most spammed move in the tier can just ruin phantump. additionally, with the prevalence of pivoting moves in the tier, you will rarely get to tack on lots of damage with curse. finally, with the fact that most teams have regenerator pokemon, you can't really get damage to stick, especially if its either a horn leech coming off of an average attack stat or a curse.

anyways i agree w/ the omanyte nom because its coverage combination is strong. obviously priority shits on it but like pyprod brought up, grookey is on a downturn and plenty other good mons rn struggle w/ priority regardless (scarf pory for example).
also would like to nom bunnelby to c. i have been spamming bunny recently and although it struggles to get in, it does p well against teams with slower normal resists + enjoys being able to share checks w/ vullaby, which means that bunny checks are almost always knocked and chipped over the course of a game. bunny being a strong priority user is also great to help kill the myriad fast threats in the tier (especially abra). also it helps chip the steels that check scarf pory and we all know how good that mon is. it kinda gets shit on by ghost types but theres only one relevant one (frillish) rn so i don't think the weakness is insurmountable. why did we move bunny down

thats all thanks for reading :)

 

[kirby of the jet]

sorry to say this but i dont think phantump is that good. theres 1293808 knock off users per team, of which 3 outspeed phantump (vullaby, mienfoo, pawniard). you can't harvest oran berries back if they are removed by knock off (i believe; someone correct me if i'm wrong) meaning that the most spammed move in the tier can just ruin phantump. additionally, with the prevalence of pivoting moves in the tier, you will rarely get to tack on lots of damage with curse. finally, with the fact that most teams have regenerator pokemon, you can't really get damage to stick, especially if its either a horn leech coming off of an average attack stat or a curse.

anyways i agree w/ the omanyte nom because its coverage combination is strong. obviously priority shits on it but like pyprod brought up, grookey is on a downturn and plenty other good mons rn struggle w/ priority regardless (scarf pory for example).
also would like to nom bunnelby to c. i have been spamming bunny recently and although it struggles to get in, it does p well against teams with slower normal resists + enjoys being able to share checks w/ vullaby, which means that bunny checks are almost always knocked and chipped over the course of a game. bunny being a strong priority user is also great to help kill the myriad fast threats in the tier (especially abra). also it helps chip the steels that check scarf pory and we all know how good that mon is. it kinda gets shit on by ghost types but theres only one relevant one (frillish) rn so i don't think the weakness is insurmountable. why did we move bunny down

thats all thanks for reading :)

Yeah that’s actually pretty true. I have struggled a lot against knock off users while using the set.

 

[Pikachu_fan4820]

Why is dwebble so low? Berry juice+shell smash has been pretty good for me (ESPECIALLY on leads), and between sturdy AND berry juice, its pretty easy to get 1-2 shell smashes, or even 3-4 on hazard setters. doesn't seem like a C to me, seems at least like a B.

 

[PyProd]

Dwebble is kind of in a weird place in the meta atm.

On hyper offense, even though it is a great hazard stacking Pokémon, people often prefer leads able to spread paralysis such as Pawniard or Ferroseed, or leads that can let another Pokémon set up with Memento such as Diglett. The reason for hazard stacking Pokémon to be less good atm in HO is that LC is a tier where Staryu is pretty prevalent as a Spinner, and Vullaby as a Defogger, and packing Pawniard and a Ghost such as Frillish or the way less viable Pumpkaboo means you give up slots for Pokémon that really set up. Moreover, on the case of Pawniard and Vullaby interactions, you aren't free from a Heat Wave being clicked. In more active leads such as the aforementioned Pawniard, Ferroseed and Diglett, Vullaby can't Defog without risking the team being swept, but the difference is that you actually pressure it with your setup Pokémon instead of more passive ones. The other reason is that HO setup Pokémon are strong enough to pack KOs on their own, and only really need the help of Stealth Rock to take on bulkier Pokémon. Setting up many Spikes in a game seems hard, and I would even recommend you use Weak Armor on Dwebble if you want it to set Hazards as it guarantees to set at least the SR and a Spike.

Smashers have been pretty weird lately, because they seem pretty matchup-fishy (if there's no Grookey or Timburr in the opposing team you can set up alright, if there is, meh.). Moreover, Dwebble as a Shell Smasher is pretty weak even at +2, making its competition in the stronger Omanyte and Shellder preferred if you really want a Shell Smasher in your team. The only good point Dwebble has over these is that it is not weak to Grassy Glide, but its typing will prevent it from setting up safely most of the time. This in conjunction with priority makes Shell Smash Dwebble pretty hard to make work in my opinion.

 

[Pikachu_fan4820]

Dwebble is kind of in a weird place in the meta atm.

On hyper offense, even though it is a great hazard stacking Pokémon, people often prefer leads able to spread paralysis such as Pawniard or Ferroseed, or leads that can let another Pokémon set up with Memento such as Diglett. The reason for hazard stacking Pokémon to be less good atm in HO is that LC is a tier where Staryu is pretty prevalent as a Spinner, and Vullaby as a Defogger, and packing Pawniard and a Ghost such as Frillish or the way less viable Pumpkaboo means you give up slots for Pokémon that really set up. Moreover, on the case of Pawniard and Vullaby interactions, you aren't free from a Heat Wave being clicked. In more active leads such as the aforementioned Pawniard, Ferroseed and Diglett, Vullaby can't Defog without risking the team being swept, but the difference is that you actually pressure it with your setup Pokémon instead of more passive ones. The other reason is that HO setup Pokémon are strong enough to pack KOs on their own, and only really need the help of Stealth Rock to take on bulkier Pokémon. Setting up many Spikes in a game seems hard, and I would even recommend you use Weak Armor on Dwebble if you want it to set Hazards as it guarantees to set at least the SR and a Spike.

Smashers have been pretty weird lately, because they seem pretty matchup-fishy (if there's no Grookey or Timburr in the opposing team you can set up alright, if there is, meh.). Moreover, Dwebble as a Shell Smasher is pretty weak even at +2, making its competition in the stronger Omanyte and Shellder preferred if you really want a Shell Smasher in your team. The only good point Dwebble has over these is that it is not weak to Grassy Glide, but its typing will prevent it from setting up safely most of the time. This in conjunction with priority makes Shell Smash Dwebble pretty hard to make work in my opinion.

its called sturdy berry juice

 

[DC]

its called sturdy berry juice

Even with SturdyJuice, Shell Smash Dwebble is a huge matchup fish. Its typing isn't great, and its damage output, even after Shell Smash, is meh. I dont know how you got the "it is good in the lead matchup" and "can get 1-2 smashes easily". It loses to Lead Mienfoo, which is the most common lead by far, and other niche leads like Timburr and Onix. You are lucky if u managed to get one Shell Smash off and even then, you aren't gonna be KOing some Pokemon, unlike other Smashers like Shellder.

 

[MK007]

Why is dwebble so low? Berry juice+shell smash has been pretty good for me (ESPECIALLY on leads), and between sturdy AND berry juice, its pretty easy to get 1-2 shell smashes, or even 3-4 on hazard setters. doesn't seem like a C to me, seems at least like a B.

As someone who uses dwebble more than almost anyone else in the thread, (and likely harbors biases in favor of dwebble) it belongs in C. The meta right now isn't kind too it. As a lead it's a gimmick at best fishing for a kill + a knock as countersmash or multiple layers of hazards with spikes + rocks.
As a late game cleaner/wincon it struggles due to the metagame being physical defense-oriented with 15 defense sets more common than ever and fighting types seeing high usage. Additionally, it requires strong hazard removal because it needs rocks off the field to setup and sweep unlike an alternative like shellder.

It was a great sweeper last gen due to the meta revolving more around mons special attackers as abra but has fallen off due to how SWSH has developed with a lack of hidden power hurting special attackers.

Edit: Also Grassy Glide Grookey is everywhere now which hurts all sturdyjuice smashers.

 

[Peppermint Productions]

I’d second an omantye nomination. I like the idea of pairing it with pawniard, since pawniard is infamous for having too many different things to do and not having enough Health to do them all, omantye sounds like it could lighten the load, plus if it switches into a U-turn, it doesn’t get stomped on by a trapinch. Of course the fact that we are even considering running two vull checks on a team should really be concerning (ban vull) but it’s definitely worth that C-tier spot.

in addition, I feel like I might be pushing against the inevitable tide here, but I definitely think tyrunt deserves a spot in B+. I think it would be the worst mon there, but it’s the worst there by a smaller margin than it is the best mon in B, it isn’t in the same league as sandshrewlola, natu, or magby, much as I have a soft spot for all three. I think B+ is roughly the point where you need SOME kind of answer for it on a team, and I feel tryrunt fits that description in a way the the other B-tier residents just don’t.

one last thing: I’d probably put trapinch in A+, Though that might seem a touch radical. I think that the best partner to the best mon in the tier (ban pory), that beaks it’s checks easily, and is able to trap extremely consistently, not to mention how free the grookey matchup is if protect isn’t run. At full health it traps non tect abra (although protect is increasingly common) if it has quick attack or feint, plus it can break sash on protect abra for free with feint. It’s bulky enough to take an attack of two for the team when absolutely necessary. It has huge advantages, on top of being a very solid mon without glaring weaknesses. If people think it’s good in A, that’s fair, but personally it seems just as tempting as diglett as a trapper

 

[PyProd]

Yo, I am here with some more noms.

Abra to A+: I don't know who said it but I recall having read someone saying that the A+ rank was representative of what was going on in the metagame. The meta, lately, has seen a surge in usage of Abra. Focus Sash is as good a blanket check as it ever was, with notably Thunder Wave as an option to cripple switchins such as bulky Psychic-types (Ponyta-Galar), Frillish, Pawniard, Vullaby or opposing Abra. However, I believe the most dangerous set atm is LO Abra, whose offensive prowess is fairly well complimented by another big Special Attacker in Porygon or which can break things fairly easily on its own. We all know how strong LO-boosted Psychic is, Dazzling Gleam comes short of 2HKOing Pawniard, and coverage options such as Fire Punch or Energy Ball either invalidate Ferroseed or Trapinch as a check depending on what you want to target, leaving only bulky Psychic-types as really reliable switchins. Even then, the rarer Shadow Ball can take care of these in a pinch and Ponyta-Galar is scared of Thunder Wave. Fire Punch also hits Ferroseed fairly hard even on Sash variants that invest 36 EVs in Attack and don't use a -Atk nature!

Grookey to A: Grookey on the other hand has fallen off quite a bit already, due to the metagame shifting away from an HO-heavy one to benefit immediate breakers more (such as the aforementioned Abra or Porygon). Grookey is notably hurt by the proeminence of Vullaby (more used than ever with 90% usage in LCPL) and Koffing and Foongus still being fairly used. Moreover, Grookey is forced into a weird place where it wants to have defensive prowess to soft-check Pokémon such as Staryu or Onix with an Eviolite or a Berry Juice but lacks a lot of power without Life Orb Wood Hammer. It is really hard to fit all the options Grookey wants to have to hit the various Pokémon in the tier, which means Grookey will always be walled by something. It should therefore drop according to me.

Mudbray to B or B-: Let's be real, when was the last time you've seen Mudbray? It really suffers from its concurrence as Ground-type Pokémon in Onix, an actual Vullaby check that also provides Speed Control or breaking prowess in Dragon Dance, as well as Explosion. The two other big Ground-types are trappers, which you know. Trappers. This makes it hard to justify running Mudbray now, all the more as it suffers from not exactly checking what it is supposed to check while having to face the two new big Special Attackers in Abra and Porygon. I see it more on par with Pokémon in B-, but B might be justified.

I also stand my ground particularly on my nom about Omanyte being ranked. I think it would belong in C, where other hard-to-justify Pokémon that still can have some assets such as Amaura, Cottonee, Croagunk or Wingull are ranked.

I also think that Natu's niche as another bulky Psychic-type to switch into Abra without being affected by TWave, while being immune to Spore from Foongus and sending back Spikes from Ferroseed could be to consider atm for discussion. It has nice options such as its own Thunder Wave or Heat Wave to threaten Pawniard, as well as U-turn or Teleport. Is it enough to move it up in B+, though? Certainly not. Maybe Ponyta-Galar could rise in A, though, as the niche of a bulky Psychic-type has never made itself more needed than now, according to me.

 

[Peppermint Productions]

I feel like mudbray is good where it is. It’s noticably stronger than anything in B, with the possible exception of tyrunt (tyrunt to B+), and it still hits fucking hard and takes those same hits too, is has rocks support, and can acts as bulky glue on pawniard teams that don’t already have onix.

also, let’s move down natu to B-. This mon was good when HO screens was good, now the one mon that made those teams excellent is banned. Even under screens it takes waaaaaay too much damage, and it doesn’t fit on teams without eschewing many different mon. We’ve tried to salvage HO with mon like ponygalar and trick room spritzee, but we all know it’s not even CLOSE to being the same. HO is dead, and that should be reflected. Scraggy and tyrunt are as solid as ever, but the teams built around them aren’t nearly as good.

 

[Pikachu_fan4820]

What exactly does wynaut do that warrants a rank? IDK because I've never seen anyone use it but it doesnt seem that good.

 

[Expulso]

yo with my LCPL being finished I figured i'd give my thoughts on what a VR of this tier would look like to me

S:

S ranks

Mienfoo is (un)shockingly one of the best mons in the tier once again, after one LCPL week where it got <20% usage it surged to #1 the following week. Both Scarf and standard pivot sets are really really good right now. Scarf gives teams security against Scraggy and is a potent wincon by virtue of outspeeding almost every other Scarfer (except most notably Diglett). Pairing the pivot set with some breaker(s) that pressure Koffing / Foongus is a super easy way to make progress, and it also pairs exceptionally well with Grookey to weaken the Poison-types for it late game. Also I swear CB HJK is epic in this meta i wanna try it

Grookey's also an excellent mon. Although the rise of Fire types, most notably Ponyta, have helped to help keep it in check, it's a massive threat in any endgame due to its extremely powerful priority, boosting moves, ability to burst past its checks with SD Mega Kick or Acro, and the fact that its only real reliable answers are a) Poison types worn down by the omnipresent fighting-types in the tier or b) Fire-types trapped by Diglett. That priority also makes it great against webs, which is super valuable rn. I feel like much of the criticism about Grookey comes down to it not being used properly to weaken its checks; it isn't a mon that can be slapped on any team and lets you blindly win, but when a good player makes the conscious effort to set up an endgame for Grookey it is extremely hard to stop.

Scraggy's great too and really doesn't need any introduction. DD is warping the meta massively right now, causing Mienfoo to be Scarf much more than it ever has in the past. It has so many options; standard BJ DD can run Sub, Protect, Dual Chop (for sturdy mons / sashbra) or even (probably?) Zen Headbutt, and that doesn't even get into sets like King Leo V's Eviolite Shed Skin Drain Punch Scraggy. Very threatening mon that can win games on the spot if given even the smallest amount of room.

Finally, I believe Diglett is an S rank Pokemon in this tier. Trapping is insanely powerful in a metagame this offensive; without Vullaby soft-checking every mon in the tier, many threats can instantly become extremely dangerous once Diglett eliminates their answer with Final Gambit, which it can do to almost everything in the tier. For instance, think of Scarf Mienfoo U-turning on Foongus, Final Gambiting it, and then clicking HJK through their entire team. On top of that, it can hit hard af with LO and provide utility with Balloon to stop the popular Scarf Mudbray from sweeping. (Someone try Air Balloon sub Hone Claws i swear it's probably fire lol...)

A+:

A+ ranks (shorter now i swear...) (NVM it isnt)

Koffing is the best Poison-type in the tier right now; it can't be trapped, isn't weak to Acrobatics from Grookey, and has a very impressive offensive presence -- many teams struggle to switch into Koffing. It can also give teams a Ground immune if needed. It really needs to be paired with good hazard control, though; it hates being worn down by SR due to its lack of recovery. (Try Sleep Talk Neut Gas if your team needs to switch into Foong's spore!)

Staryu's great too, Ferroseed is falling out of favor a bit due to Scraggy taking advantage of it and Staryu really appreciates that. Removal is huge, 19 speed is huge, checking Ponyta is also huge (and perhaps underappreciated due to how fast that mon has risen).

Abra is excellent as well, I believe it deserves A+ despite its fragility due to the ability to either break pretty much every team with LO or hold off threatening sweepers with Sash. Sash is a super useful soft check to basically all of the tier in a very offensive metagame, and LO is super hard to switch into due to its massive # of reliable coverage moves in this meta. Susceptability to Diglett trapping is unfortunate, but this can be taken advantage of with 2-lose-to-trapper teamstyles + a countertrapper (for instance, Abra+Pony+Balloon Dig)

Timburr might be the least worthy A+ mon here, the rise of Koffing means it is often forced out by the threat of Wisp rather than being able to punish the poison that switched in with its faster elemental punch. However, it provides really reliable Rocks removal, which is immensely appreciated by the Fire types in the tier (and other things like SturdyJuice Magnemite and Koffing). In a meta as offensive as this Timburr's removal helps slow down the opponent's chipping of your team, letting you do better against threats like Grookey late-game. Mach Punch is also a threatening way to clean and provides big utility vs Scraggy and other setup mons.

Ponyta is absurdly good. Eviolite walls p much all the tier lol, Flame Charge BJ hits SO so hard and is a massive offensive threat. Once it gets 1 Flame Charge and Waters are in position to drop to Wild Charge (or trapped by aforementioned Diglett) it can absolutely tear teams apart, almost always getting multiple kills if there is not a Scarf Diglett. It can be one of the best checks to Pawn / fighters with Flame Body or shut down Sun with Flash Fire, and with either ability it chooses it is p much the best Grookey check around right now.

A:

A ranks

Foongus is still good and does the same Foongus stuff it always does, Spore is a huge threat that can incapacitate a mon on many teams. Less of a reliable check to things though because A: Koffing wears it down and B: Grookey runs Acro fairly often. It also hates Fire types becoming more common and giving teams another way to pressure Foong; Natu is another annoyance since it's an added Spore-blocker. It does appreciate some Timburrs going with Defog > Ice Punch though.

Ferro hates fires' rise too (note that by fires i basically mean Ponyta but i used larvesta one time and like it). Scraggy's another annoyance for it, as is both Natu and Timburr keeping its hazards off. However, it is one of the best checks to things like Staryu and Abra (which often drop fire move) in the tier while also helping with Grookey some, so hard to say it fell too much.

Ponyta-Galar is still pretty threatening! I think CM has a lot of potential since Gleam is less important right now. However, it doesn't love that the special scarfers are less common now and can also typically be trapped after getting a kill (though sometimes Diglett must do so with Gambit, making it more of a 2-for-1). An underrated drawback is that you can't use Ponyta with it, lol; Ponyta is an amazing mon right now and that gives Pony-G an honestly big opportunity cost. it also lacks Abra's possible utility with Sash and Natu's Magic Bounce utility. Hard mon to build with but can definitely succeed if you put in the effort to build a Pony-g team.

Pawniard does pawn things, checking psychics sucker yea yea. It kinda loses to everything that's rising right now lmao -- fires, grounds, Scraggy -- but can still be threatening in the right circumstances (LCPL Week 6 Mikaav vs tazz is a good example of this).

People seemed to think Mudbray would be S or so right after Vullaby left, and we all panicked about the lack of ground immunes. Since then, though, the meta has adapted with Levitate Koffing, Natu, and the rise of Grookey. It is a good mon for sure, but not as unstoppable offensively as it was thought to be. It also comes with the drawback of overlapping typing w Diglett making it hard to run a trapper on Mudbray teams, and trapping is insane. Additionally, many of the attackers it would want to switch into can punish it for that with Wisp (Koffing/Ponyta) or at least force it to lose its item (Mienfoo, Pawn). Scarf, SR, and RestTalk are definitely all good but it isn't at the meta-breaking level that many thought it would be at the start of this metagame.

Frillish is a very useful specially defensive wall post-Vulla, being one of -- if not the -- most reliable answers to special attackers like Staryu, Abra, Koffing and Ponyta-Galar. It doesn't love that some of these Pokemon can afford to run moves for Frillish, such as Shadow Ball Abra and Thunderbolt Staryu/Koffing; however, it's bulky enough to shrug off weaker ones like Koffing Tbolt. More problematic for it is that there's a number of threatening things that can get in on the free turn from it clicking recover, Scraggy and Grookey most notably. I was going to put this in A- but I think it has just enough matchups vs teams that can't pressure it (for instance, those with ferro/foong as grass and no dark) to be worth A. Not being trappable is also huge vs sun and strategies that involve trapping the opp's water (for instance anything that tried to enable flame charge pony).

A-:

A- ranks

Mareanie is definitely the least popular poison right now -- Grookey is really good and it's hard to justify a poison that doesn't check it, especially since slapping a Fire-type alongside Mareanie to help with Grookey just makes your team insanely Ground-weak. However it's still pretty good, I think there's a lot of potential with it + special breaker since its Knock forces special walls like Frillish / Ferroseed to lose their Eviolite.

Natu is cool. the grizzz Cosmic Power CM seems super good but I tend to use CM Heat Wave Air Slash Roost, it applies pressure well and beats down the traditional special walls in Frillish and Ferroseed. It also keeps hazards off, particularly alongside Diglett; you live 1 sucker, outspeed, and chip it down enough with Heat Wave for it to be easily trapped by Diglett. Keeping hazards off can be great to give defensive walls more longevity (such as Koffing), as I talked about in the Timburr section, and it also enables safety nets like SturdyJuice Magnemite that are very strong answers to the setup sweepers due to Sturdy.

Trapinch fell off very hard, went from getting more use than Diglett for the first half of LCPL to being outused 14 to 1 in the most recent week. However trapping Grookey, which usually can drop Protect since Trapinch basically doesn't exist, is very useful for many teams.

Dewpider = webs, webs good

Vulpix + charmander = sun, sun good

B+:

B+ ranks

Magnemite is a really cool mon, I told Mikaav it looked super bad when he was suggesting it in LCPL and then i realized that SturdyJuice + removal handles all the brokens really well. I don't like Scarf -- though it may be usable, I think there's a grass + trapper on most teams which makes it quite prediction reliant, and it's also slower than most scarfers (speed tying with +1 Scraggy is particularly frustrating). However if u have good removal SturdyJuice Magnemite is a great mon. Get it in versus Koffing, then threaten to do a ton with Tbolt or Steel Beam while also being able to Volt on the grasses, Foong and Ferro, that tend to be exploitable by a lot of good mons in the tier -- and u also live trapping attempts with SturdyJuice. I'll add that Tbolt+Volt is important to force out Frillish, which can actually Recover on you if u only have volt since it does ~55-65%.

I think Larvesta is a pretty cool mon, basically Ponyta with U-turn which lets it really effectively trap Water-types; Staryu drops to U-turn + Scarf Diglett EQ if Rocks are up, and you can use LO Dig to make that even easier. Obviously it needs a strong hazard removal core such as Natu+Defog Timb/trapper but it has a lot of potential to me, Flame Body is one of the best abilities to have in this physical-attacker and U-turn spam heavy tier. One other downside is that you're weak to Acro Grookey in a way Ponyta, which is faster, is not.

Not much to say about the rest but they all seem like pretty usable mons. Porygon totally fell off lol I forgot it exists when first making this list, 14spe scarfer is just so bad n_n but surely there's some way to use it well. Archen and Pumpkaboo both seem scary on webs but I haven't used them once yet

B:

 

[dracovish is cool]

Why is scorbunny unranked? Sure, mienfoo is practically just it but better, but gunk shot is really nice for fairies such as galarian ponyta and spritzee. Also, with sucker punch it can stop digletts with light chip from easily revenging it, and it has the added benefit of destroying foongus. All in all, I think scorbunny deserves C- or C. I don't have any replays, but if they are really necessary then I'll get some

 

[sweettingz]

Why is scorbunny unranked? Sure, mienfoo is practically just it but better, but gunk shot is really nice for fairies such as galarian ponyta and spritzee. Also, with sucker punch it can stop digletts with light chip from easily revenging it, and it has the added benefit of destroying foongus. All in all, I think scorbunny deserves C- or C. I don't have any replays, but if they are really necessary then I'll get some

I'd say Scorbunny should be AT LEAST B, with continuing discussions for him to go up further. I've played probably 150-200 ladder games in the past days with Choice Scarf Scorbunny in 1500+ ELO, and have found that Scorbunny poses a massive threat. Like a massive one. Libero makes even the casual pivot U-Turn into 50% off of your Staryu. Is he about to Blaze Kick or HJK and 2-Shot my switch in? Does it have sucker? Gunk Shot is great coverage, etc. etc.

In the later stages of a game, Scorbunny serves as a win condition who is the fastest mon in the match and can easily clean up a weakened team. After some Knock Offs and Stealth Rock chip goes around, HJK/Blaze Kick/Gunk Shot is most likely able to at least put a huge hole in the opponents team.

Early/mid game, Scorbunny can serve as a counter to a lot of mons. For example, when people bring in Scraggy, they instantly tend to D-Dance (most don't HJK/Knock, but some do, and it doesn't one shot Scorbunny). Switching to Scorbunny on the DD is free, and either the opponent doesn't expect the Scarf HJK or you get a strong U-Turn that nets you some momentum/predict a switch and get a kill.

Obviously, LO Abra gets revenge killed, and sash Bra gets his sash popped by U-Turn and his move walled by the appropriate switch-in.
Grassy Seed SD Grookey gets revenge killed by Blaze Kick after rocks (Scorbunny lives a +2 GG at Max HP and kills +1 Def Grookey after some chip).
LOrb Grookey is threatened to be revenge killed to, so has to switch out every time. Remember, every time a Pokemon switches out with a Scorbunny in its face, you have to handle:
STAB HJK
STAB Gunk Shot
STAB Blaze Kick

and if the Scorbunny player doesn't really feel like dropping one of these, he can opt for the safe STAB U-Turn and gain some solid momentum, saving the bunny for another turn.

Evio Frillish and Mareanie are the most reliable switch ins to a Scorbunny, but they don't pose much of a threat when they switch in. Whether Scorbunny U-Turns or not, Frillish and Mareanie are easily walled (Mareanie also easily trapped if the opponent isn't careful).

Koffing is also a really good switch in, but once he gets knocked off, he:

1. Can't Will-O a Scorb, so has to be careful for the switch-in on a WoW
2. Takes a good chunk from Blaze Kick and HJK

So the Koffing player has to be very careful he can handle Scorbunny once his Koffing suddenly dies, 'cause an evio-less Koffing doesn't last long vs. Scorbunny.


Scarf Scorbunny can't be trapped by Diglett unless Scorb is low-HP, or if the Diglett is sashed and the Scorb can't U-Turn. Every move except Gunk Shot either switches Bunny out or one shots digletts.
Evio Staryu is 2HKO'd by HJK, but a scarf Staryu or *one that rapid spins* (much more common and much more of an issue) anticipating your Scorbunny's ability to clean up pose as problems for a Scorbunny looking to sweep.

The threat and tempo Scorbunny provides is kind of unmatched in the tier, probably only by Foo. Paired with a pivot Foo, Scorbunny can just absolutely wreak havoc. Taunt Foo can prevent rocks on turn 1, spread knocks around all game (most importantly, get the evio off an opposing mienfoo turn 1! thats massive cause it allows scorbunny HJK to one shot at 80%), does insane damage with HJK and spreads chip with U-Turn.

I know that this post is about Scorbunny but Mienfoo compliments him so well and can't go unmentioned. Diglett is an honorable mention. These two mons punch holes into your opponents team that make it super easy for BJ/Scarf Scorbunny to clean up late game, and really highlight his strengths.
So yeah, Scorbunny is really strong and it would be plain wrong to have him lower than B (imo). The threat of all the STAB Moves and the momentum given by U-Turn is great. The uncertainty between BJ and Scarf is valuable, as both items are very viable on Scorbunny. BJ Scorbunny doesn't have the problem of being locked into moves, so if a scarfer isn't needed, Scorbunny could serve as a threat with a wide spread of coverage (but at a contentious speed tier of 17).

Sadly don't have any replays but you guys can try out Scarf/BJ Scorbunny yourselves and see what he can do.

edit: realized a paragraph wasnt finished, finished it, added a little bit of extra details

 

[DC]

Since there hasn't been much discussion on VR stuff, I'm gonna throw in my personal VR for S to B+. There may be some recency bias to it, but I think its relatively accurate, considering how centralized the current meta is.

S
Mienfoo

Reasoning

Sorta a no-brainer for the best Pokemon in the tier. It has everything you would want in a LC Pokemon: a powerful STAB move(when it hits), Knock Off, the ability to pivot with U-turn, reliable recovery in Regenerator, and priority in Fake Out.

A+
Staryu
Grookey
Koffing
Pawniard
Ferroseed
Mudbray

Reasoning

A+ encompasses a lot of the picks that are vital to the "essential LC defensive core" of Foo / Star / Koff / Steel. Staryu is basically the best A+ Pokemon; its Analytic-boosted attacks basically demolishes anything that isn't Ferroseed and has minimal switch-ins. Grookey is less good as it was in the previous meta, but it is more diverse now, with options like Wood Hammer returning to usage to punish the prevalent Koffing. Speaking of Koffing, it is the best Poison-type in the current meta. Its offensive presence and ability to deny Regenerator makes it super good. Pawniard and Ferroseed are the obligatory Steel picks on teams, which are essential in a tier where Psychic-types and Porygon are very good. Mudbray is the weakest A+ Pokemon, but the lack of strong Ground-resistant Pokemon makes it very dangerous.

A
Ponyta
Galarian Ponyta
Porygon
Abra
Diglett

Reasoning

Ponyta is a strong candidate for A+ given how good it is offensively and defensively. Berry Juice sets hit like a truck and has pretty much no switch-ins with proper prediction, while defensive sets with Eviolite and Flame Body are making a resurgence to punish Mienfoo and Grookey for being too trigger happy. The reason I didn't put it in A+ is that using Ponyta comes with a big opportunity cost of not being able to use Galarian Ponyta. The next three Pokemon are hard-hitting special attackers that force Steel usage. G-pony and Porygon have gotten better, while Abra has seen better days. The last A Pokemon is Diglett. Trapping is honestly in its perceived worst state in LC due to the abundance of Pokemon that are much harder to trap, like Koffing, Staryu, and Ferroseed.

A-
Mareanie
Timburr
Foongus
Natu

Reasoning

Mareanie should honestly be at the bottom of A rank. The return of FerroMare cores and trapping being weaker make it much better to use than in the previous meta. Timburr and Foongus are losers of this meta. The opportunity cost of using Timburr is not using Mienfoo (outside of Fight spam teams), which is a trade-off that many players are not going to take, while Foongus takes up both the slot of a Poison-type and a Grass-type, which makes it redundant with Koffing and Ferroseed. Natu is a niche Pokemon with quite a few good traits; it has a Ground immunity, it is one of the only Pokemon that can reliably switch into Koffing and Knock-less Grookey with reliably recovery, and Magic Bounce makes it less necessary to fit traditional hazard control.

B+
Frillish
Magnemite
Trapinch
Vulpix

Reasoning

Frillish is less good in the meta due to higher usage of other Water-types and less so due to its own weaknesses. It is still very situationally strong, especially against sun, and checking Galarian Ponyta and Shadow Ball-less Abra is still a good trait. Magnemite is in an awkward spot in meta; I think Choice Scarf is like the only good set rn, since it is more diffcult to stop (especially with less Diglett usage). Trapinch has seen better days, but I predict its usage to grow in the coming weeks to punish Protect-less Grookey and Pawniard/Ferroseed. Vulpix is quite underrated in my opinion; while it does tend to struggle against Flash Fire Pony and Staryu, many teams tend to be weak to offensive Fire-types, especially with less Frillish and Mareanie usage.

 

[Grapo]

I fully agree with your ranking, aside of Mareanie which (as u said) actually could rise to A rank in my opinion. Mare provides a lot of role compression, being a water and poison type at the same time, allowing to use 2 mons based core (the ferro mare core) instead of a more classical poison/steel/water core. Since the LC building doesn't allows much creativity, have a free slot to fill wathever really allows to build workable and fun teams. Moreover, the others A- mons are just alternative picks to usually better, higher ranked mons while mareanie brings a true value in the way to build in LC. Finally, notice that Mare doesn't check grookey or ponyta as Koffing and staryu could do, so this is why A should be the right tier for the baby Toxapex.
Others thoughts about some lower ranked mons :
From B- to B+
See Munch lower than cotonee or drillburr seems very weird... It walls some of the top meta threats such as the rising Ponyta-Galar and more importantly is an excellent koffing check wich can switch into anything but sometime pain split and absorb statues thanks to facade. In balanced teams, Munchlax is a very menacing staple. It always has a problematic weakness to fighting types and only works in fatest teams, making it unable to rise much in my opinion.
From B- to B+
Larvesta possesses a few great traits which may justifie its potent rise in the VRs. Firstly, Its speed tier allows it to outspeed all choice scarf users aside of Mienfoo, turning it in a threatening scarfer thanks to its combinaison of powerful and useful STABs in Flare Blitz and U-Turn. Moreover, it has the ability to spread burn just coming into key resisted hits such as grookey's grassy glide and mienfoo's HJK. However it doesn't deserve the A rank, needing too much support because of its double stealth rocks weakness and has only one reliable set in the scarfer.

From B to B-
I honestly dont know how much Drillbur should drop, but the presence of Mudbray which is an overall better scarfer hardly hits Drillbur in its viability. Its niche as a spinner doesn't justifie to use it over the horse, while a better spinner exists in Starmie.

From B to B-
I end my post with Cotonee, a mon that really doesn't enjoy the Scrag ban, since it loses the ability to check Scraggy AND to support Scraggy with Memento. in fact, momento cottonee based team aren't really a thing anymore.

That was my first post in the LC Viability Rankings ! My english isn't so good as I wish, then I hope you enjoyed to read my post anw !