Resource SWSH LC Viability Rankings (Updated post #86)

I've been recently messing around with more of a robbery set of team. I have no idea if its necessarily good but in practice I've done pretty well. (I tried to do poke paste but my WiFi is garbage rn)



Issa birdie (Vullaby) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Thief

Lancelot (Pawniard) @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 196 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thief
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Wave

Yeet (Meowth) @ Normal Gem
Ability: Technician
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Covet
- U-turn
-Toxic


I mostly Wanna focus on the moms that I gave thief, covet, etc and I propose this To be a setup worth looking into because of the viability in the beginning of the game. Use a fast Mon like meowth to fake out then take the other mons item and switch out accordingly. It could also help the longevity of the Mon because of the dominance of eviolite and berry juice among the meta game. also if used on the right Mon, it could get powerful items such as choice band and life orb to amp up the users power and have more kill confirms than it usually had access to from base sets. I don't really have a detailed ranking moms like this should be in but they should be at least recognized for there crippling capability
Truth be told you probably want a U-turn if you're using berry juice over eviolite on Vullaby, so ditching knock off would probably be more ideal, even though thief objectively worse than knock off in almost every way. Thiefing something useful can be kind of tough depending on what kind of teamstyle your opponent is running, like if you're opponent is using a mon like eviolite chinchou as their best vullaby switchin, even if you're almost guranteed to yoink an eviolite from it as long as you've lost your berry juice, running both knock off and U-turn is far more reliable, since it gurantees that you'll remove the eviolite 100% of the time, while also keeping U-turn and all of it's benefits.

Pawniard really needs a reliable dark type move so that it doesn't have to rely on sucker punch as it's strongest dark stab, since thief is so weak that it barely even counts, especially since pawniards typing is so weak defensively that it's hard to reliably get within berry juice range unless you purposely limit pawniard in some way (which you're already doing, given that you have to ditch eviolite, making pawniards slightly above average at best). I'm not saying that berry juice pawniard is garbage, but using it over eviolite solely for the minimal utility thief provides is kind of gimmicky. Finally, sacrificing the extra utility the fourth moveslot provides for the sake using both knock off and thief is pointless, especially since spamming knock off is more consistent.

And finally, Meowth really needs the extra power from life orb, since you're using a pretty lackluster item in the normal gem for the chance of yoinking an item from your opponent, which can range from a useful item such as a life orb (though why not run it from the start), to something kinda pointless like an eviolite or a berry juice, give meowths inability to switch into much of anything, to something useless like a choice scarf or a focus sash. Covet is also very easy to switch into by a large part of the metagame, given that meowths base 45 attack isn't threatening without a boost and the risk of losing an item isn't as detremental as it may seem (though it can be very sucky depending on the matchup).
 
Truth be told you probably want a U-turn if you're using berry juice over eviolite on Vullaby, so ditching knock off would probably be more ideal, even though thief objectively worse than knock off in almost every way. Thiefing something useful can be kind of tough depending on what kind of teamstyle your opponent is running, like if you're opponent is using a mon like eviolite chinchou as their best vullaby switchin, even if you're almost guranteed to yoink an eviolite from it as long as you've lost your berry juice, running both knock off and U-turn is far more reliable, since it gurantees that you'll remove the eviolite 100% of the time, while also keeping U-turn and all of it's benefits.

Pawniard really needs a reliable dark type move so that it doesn't have to rely on sucker punch as it's strongest dark stab, since thief is so weak that it barely even counts, especially since pawniards typing is so weak defensively that it's hard to reliably get within berry juice range unless you purposely limit pawniard in some way (which you're already doing, given that you have to ditch eviolite, making pawniards slightly above average at best). I'm not saying that berry juice pawniard is garbage, but using it over eviolite solely for the minimal utility thief provides is kind of gimmicky. Finally, sacrificing the extra utility the fourth moveslot provides for the sake using both knock off and thief is pointless, especially since spamming knock off is more consistent.

And finally, Meowth really needs the extra power from life orb, since you're using a pretty lackluster item in the normal gem for the chance of yoinking an item from your opponent, which can range from a useful item such as a life orb (though why not run it from the start), to something kinda pointless like an eviolite or a berry juice, give meowths inability to switch into much of anything, to something useless like a choice scarf or a focus sash. Covet is also very easy to switch into by a large part of the metagame, given that meowths base 45 attack isn't threatening without a boost and the risk of losing an item isn't as detremental as it may seem (though it can be very sucky depending on the matchup).
I see what you're saying though with the eviolite has helped several times from surviving if I wouldve died easily if I had life orb. Also when the normal gem activates on fake out plus technician boost has either literally just making their life disappear like shrodingers cat (analogy intended) or dispatch its first turn, giving meowth more options since the all around one shot sets don't work anymore with the dex expansions. Plus covet will usually finish the job or leave it on low health (with the exception to rock steel and ghost obviously) and I put toxic on the set to specifically deteriorate walls or ghost types and rock types like archen,Aron,etc. So from my experiences, its a very good starting Mon especially to annoy marinie by taking its eviolite. And its not like the opponent has the capability to out speed meowth (even out speeding fellow fake out user meinfoo ) and its rare for somebody to use a priority move like mach punch,etc on turn 2 when it lost its first turn from fake out so its rare to get punished before it can cripple the opp because in this Fay and age, the item is a big part of the meta game.
 
I see what you're saying though with the eviolite has helped several times from surviving if I wouldve died easily if I had life orb. Also when the normal gem activates on fake out plus technician boost has either literally just making their life disappear like shrodingers cat (analogy intended) or dispatch its first turn, giving meowth more options since the all around one shot sets don't work anymore with the dex expansions. Plus covet will usually finish the job or leave it on low health (with the exception to rock steel and ghost obviously) and I put toxic on the set to specifically deteriorate walls or ghost types and rock types like archen,Aron,etc. So from my experiences, its a very good starting Mon especially to annoy marinie by taking its eviolite. And its not like the opponent has the capability to out speed meowth (even out speeding fellow fake out user meinfoo ) and its rare for somebody to use a priority move like mach punch,etc on turn 2 when it lost its first turn from fake out so its rare to get punished before it can cripple the opp because in this Fay and age, the item is a big part of the meta game.
The problem with using covet on meowth is that it sacrifices way too much just to remove an item, and while yes, items are important, are they important enough to basically purposely limit yourself to what basically becomes a 5v6 for the chance of yoinking for an example an eviolite from your opponent?

Meowth loses far too much power from ditching life orb, and based on the calcs I've run the eviolite only helps against very weak attacks, such as a scald from mareanie (2hko to 2hko after rocks) and other moves you shouldn't switch meowth into in the first place, nor stay in against. The set relies far too much on stealing something useful, so if your opponent has a berry juice mon that also has a decent defence stat, like rocks onix, who incidentally sets up rocks for free if you lead with meowth since ditching a water move makes meowth useless against most of the stealth rock leads in the tier.

Fake out into covet is also very easy to play around, for an example sponging a fake out with a wall and then sacking the item of a minimally useful mon to then make meowth completely useless for the rest of the game, since unless it steals a life orb it's damage output is garbage, it's survivability is always garbage and it's utility is garbage after it yoinks at item. If your opponent has a ghost type meowth also becomes completely useless, since even though toxics damage output racks up, for the first two turns it barely deals any damage and doesn't help meowth steal an item unless you manage to quickly kill the ghost afterwards. I could see this set being useful in gen 7 with pursuit support, but it's gen 8 now.

So basically you're sacking meowths damage output and 1-2 move slots to have a shot at kind of permanantely crippling a mon while also making meowth easy setup fodder for anything, while also making it walled by anything that usually holds an eviolite.
 

DC

LC Main, No Brain
is a Contributor to Smogon
In to make Fiend do more work.
Now that LCWC has ended (Congrats East), it is an optimal time to nom some stuff to update the VR.
Rises:
:Porygon: (A to A+)
Porygon is a Pokemon that rose in popularity this LCWC as the meta shifted towards more traditional offense and bulky offense. It forces players to use a Steel-type on most teams or else they just get beat down by Download-boosted attacks. The new innovation of Choice Scarf Porygon solves one of its weaknesses, which is its mediocre speed prior to an Agility boost, while giving a way to weaken opposing foes with Trick. The standard Agility set is good as ever, since you can cheese thru your checks with a well-timed Ice Beam freeze if you are lucky.

:Foongus: (A- to A)
This was bound to happen with Grookey surging in popularity. Not much to say. Regenerator good, Spore good, Fighting-resist good.

:Abra: (B+ to A)
The slower metagame favors Abra's return, taking advantage of popular picks like Koffing and Foongus. Focus Sash is basically the current set right now and it provides most team with an almost guarantee fail-safe option that can revenge kill foes like Grookey and boosted Scraggy. Thunder Wave or Reflect as an option over Counter is also quite useful, since you get a fast paralysis or a guaranteed screen for setup sweepers.

:Trapinch: (B+ to A-)
Trapinch has gotten better in the metagame as a decent option to trap and KO non-Protect Grookey and other weakened foes. PoryPinch is a legit archetype in 2021, with Trapinch weakening checks like Pawniard and Ferroseed for Download Porygon to click buttons.

:Tyrunt: (B- to B+)
Tyrunt has been a surprise in terms of what it can do. The fact that it can set up on Vullaby and has superb coverage, along with a way to break Focus Sash, makes it a great pick on both Webs and Screens HO.

Some URs:
:Carvanha: to B-: Underrated pick; Held back by Grookey's popularity, but if u can trap it with Trapinch, you get an excellent offensive threat.
:Natu: to B: It carries the screens HO archetype by itself; Magic Bounce denies Taunt and opposing hazards which allows it to consistently get up screens
:Sandshrew-Alola: to B-: Hail is niche, but has seen usage. Triple Axel is incredibly strong and you have access to other options like SD, EQ, Knock, and even Aurora Veil to support its teammates.
:Farfetch to B-: Its a niche pick on more offensive teams that want a reliable Fighting-type that dishes out consistent damage. CC + Brave Bird covers most stuff and you have the movepool to experiment with other options like SD, Knock Off, Quick Attack, Sub, etc.

Drops:
:Dewpider: (A to A-)
Webs have gotten worse since the last time the VR was updated.

:Wingull: (A- to B+)
Grookey being everywhere hurts Wingull's viability. You rarely want this mon over a better Water-type like Staryu or Mareanie.

Some other noms Im not sure of:
:Timburr: to A?: It has gotten a resurgence as of late. A- seems good for it rn, but it might be A material.
:Mareanie: to A?: It seems like the worse one in A+. Its a Poison-type that loses to Grookey while facing strict competition from Staryu as a Water-type.
:Vulpix: to B+?: Fire-types bad? IDK.
Nuking Omanyte and Tirtouga + everything in B- into UR territory

Good to be semi-back. Thanks for reading!
 
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daunt vs

The World Is Lucki's
is a Tiering Contributor
two short noms:
:mareanie: to A/A-: poison type that doesn't check grookey which makes it a lot less splashable. Because of the type of builds it fits it it needs trapinch or the team is going to be grookey weak most of the time which in this meta is terrible. A is enough of a drop but I could also see it dropping to A-
:ponyta-galar: to B+ and :Abra: to A- : Abra is now the best psychic type and the vr should reflect that, pony-g is inconsistent and it has a hard time fitting all moves it wants between cm/psy/dgleam/mfire/tect/msun while abra cant break like pony-g does vs ferro teams(pawn teams also but pawn gets chipped easily+counter) the utility vs cheese mons is rlly big in this meta and dig has drop in usage so its less scared of getting trapped also the raw power of even sash abra psy is a lot stronger than regular pony-g (w/o LO) which allows it to scare 12 spdef foo's and do more dmg to neutral targets like porygon forcing recover.
 
to A/A-: poison type that doesn't check grookey which makes it a lot less splashable. Because of the type of builds it fits it it needs trapinch or the team is going to be grookey weak most of the time which in this meta is terrible. A is enough of a drop but I could also see it dropping to A-
Truth be told the trappers alone make me not want to use Mareanie but it's qualities are kind of necessary at times. Still though, I'm all for an A- drop, even if it does sound kind of harsh.

Nuking Omanyte and Tirtouga + everything in B- into UR territory
100% behind this aswell, 90% of the B- gang are extremely hard to fit on teams not built around them. They seem like perfectly decent risk vs reward mons but the risks are almost never worth it aside from very niche situations. The only things I'd change are Ziggy for Corp cuz while both are terrible setup sweepers, atleast Corp can do 4 attack + eviolite and be usable, meanwhile Ziggy is both one dimensional and bad at its job.

Also something I found funny "wingull sucks use better water types like mareanie" and then "oh btw mareanie sucks now". Ik I'm misquoting it heavily, but I just found that kinda funny lol.
 
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San Tomas

had a Calm Mind
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
If we’re shuffling the whole rankings based on weakness to Grookey, why not go all the way?

:grookey: to S
it has a meta-defining presence right now. It’s like if you gave ORAS Fletchling coverage and good stats. It is singlehandedly dropping entire pokemon from viability. It hits hard and cleans and sets up if it wants. More adaptation might change this later, but right now it’s hard to argue that Grookey shouldn’t be on your team, which to me sounds a lot like S.
 
just here to agree w/ a lot of noms.

DC's rises (pory, foongus, abra, pinch, runt, carv, natu, ashrew, fetch'd)
wingull B+
mare A-
grookey S

ok now for independent thought.

going to say that vulpix should stay a-. vulpix is very strong against many of grookey's checks/counters (steels, bulky poisons, etc) and, as a result, benefits greatly from grookey's increased usage. additionally, vulpix is still the best scarf user in current meta, and can serve as a secondary check to threatening sweepers just off of its high speed with a scarf, killing or putting them in range of other priority.

also going to nom spritzee down to b and mudbray down to b+.

sprit:
poison types and steel types are very very good rn because of grook, meaning that every team should have an out to the mon. setup spam is also very strong, and having to take two turns to recover health is really bad for momentum against these teams. sprit kinda fails to be fat and check stuff in this meta, which is really bad for it. OTR is p much the only good set right now and even then it still loses to priority.

mudbray: literally have 0 idea what this mon does in this meta except be a "flying resist" that takes like 40 from vull every time. alternative setters either resist flying or at the very least check grookey. additionally, teams appreciate a sr setter that is neutral to fighting much less now, because teams already pack strong fighting resists for grookey. finally, it doesn't have a very good matchup against staryu, which is like the only hazard removal we have besides vullaby. mudbray still does cool stuff because stab eq off of 18 atk is super strong, but it struggles in current meta.

thats it thank u for reading !! excited to watch the meta develop and see if grookey is actually as good as we think it is rn. also lmk if i am misunderstanding roles of mons in this post, still new to swsh lc and more generally higher level thinking about mons :]
 
If we’re shuffling the whole rankings based on weakness to Grookey, why not go all the way?

:grookey: to S
it has a meta-defining presence right now. It’s like if you gave ORAS Fletchling coverage and good stats. It is singlehandedly dropping entire pokemon from viability. It hits hard and cleans and sets up if it wants. More adaptation might change this later, but right now it’s hard to argue that Grookey shouldn’t be on your team, which to me sounds a lot like S.
I'm kinda on the fence on this nom, on one hand this thing is a menace, stab grassy terrain boosted life orb grassy glide pretty much obliterates any non resist and knock off lets it heavily cripple it's counters, but on the other hand, the fact that it has hard counters and isn't as 3 dimensional as the other S mons makes me want to keep it in A+. Then again, saying that it shouldn't be S tier cuz it's not as good as the top 2 mons in the tier doesn't really say much, so this thing in S wouldn't be the weirdest S nom I've seen.

mudbray: literally have 0 idea what this mon does in this meta except be a "flying resist" that takes like 40 from vull every time. alternative setters either resist flying or at the very least check grookey. additionally, teams appreciate a sr setter that is neutral to fighting much less now, because teams already pack strong fighting resists for grookey. finally, it doesn't have a very good matchup against staryu, which is like the only hazard removal we have besides vullaby. mudbray still does cool stuff because stab eq off of 18 atk is super strong, but it struggles in current meta.
It sits on most of the rocks leads which is cool ig, and sits on mienfoo which is cool, though losing to dewpider unless you get lucky kinda sucks Otherwise it's kind of meh, not too many useful resistances and the extra offense isn't that useful when it's easy U-turn fodder and has the staying power of a chocolate bar. I'm all for this drop.
 

Fiend

now with 33% more color
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Moderator
We have finally updated the VR to reflect the current metagame. We have also gone so far as to add a new C rank for all to find their favorite "neat" Pokemon in. Much has changed with this ranking, and you will find all the changes within the S through B ranks below. Also included are various Pokemon which failed to be worth ranking by our current evaluations.

I believe that these changes reflect the sentiment of the above nominations, though the assigned ranks largely differ as we shifted many Pokemon down.
:Mienfoo: Mienfoo S -> A+
:Foongus: Foongus A- -> A
:Timburr: Timburr A- -> A+
:Wingull: Wingull A- -> B
:Magnemite: Magnemite A- -> B+
:Mudbray: Mudbray A- -> B+
:Ponyta-Galar: Ponyta-Galar A- -> B+
:Vulpix: Vulpix A- -> B+
:Mareanie: Mareanie A+ -> A
:Scraggy: Scraggy A+ -> A-
:Dewpider: Dewpider A+ -> B+
:Amaura: Amaura B -> B-
:Dwebble: Dwebble B -> B-
:Slowpoke: Slowpoke B -> B-
:Zigzagoon: Zigzagoon B -> C
:Tyrunt: Tyrunt B- -> B
:Corphish: Corphish B- -> C
:Croagunk: Croagunk B- -> C
:Shellder: Shellder B- -> C
:Trapinch: Trapinch B+ -> A
:Abra: Abra B+ -> A-
:Woobat: Woobat B+ -> A-
:Archen: Archen B+ -> B
:Magby: Magby ur -> B
:Sandshrew-Alola: Sandshrew-Alola ur -> B
:Carvanha: Carvanha ur -> B-
:Elekid: Elekid ur
:Omanyte: Omanyte ur
:Tirtouga: Tirtouga ur
:Axew: Axew ur
:Budew: Budew ur
:Charmander: Charmander ur
:Hippopotas: Hippopotas ur
:Pancham: Pancham ur
:Pumpkaboo: Pumpkaboo-Super ur
:Riolu: Riolu ur
:Salandit: Salandit ur
 
We have finally updated the VR to reflect the current metagame. We have also gone so far as to add a new C rank for all to find their favorite "neat" Pokemon in. Much has changed with this ranking, and you will find all the changes within the S through B ranks below. Also included are various Pokemon which failed to be worth ranking by our current evaluations.

I believe that these changes reflect the sentiment of the above nominations, though the assigned ranks largely differ as we shifted many Pokemon down.
:Mienfoo: Mienfoo S -> A+
:Foongus: Foongus A- -> A
:Timburr: Timburr A- -> A+
:Wingull: Wingull A- -> B
:Magnemite: Magnemite A- -> B+
:Mudbray: Mudbray A- -> B+
:Ponyta-Galar: Ponyta-Galar A- -> B+
:Vulpix: Vulpix A- -> B+
:Mareanie: Mareanie A+ -> A
:Scraggy: Scraggy A+ -> A-
:Dewpider: Dewpider A+ -> B+
:Amaura: Amaura B -> B-
:Dwebble: Dwebble B -> B-
:Slowpoke: Slowpoke B -> B-
:Zigzagoon: Zigzagoon B -> C
:Tyrunt: Tyrunt B- -> B
:Corphish: Corphish B- -> C
:Croagunk: Croagunk B- -> C
:Shellder: Shellder B- -> C
:Trapinch: Trapinch B+ -> A
:Abra: Abra B+ -> A-
:Woobat: Woobat B+ -> A-
:Archen: Archen B+ -> B
:Magby: Magby ur -> B
:Sandshrew-Alola: Sandshrew-Alola ur -> B
:Carvanha: Carvanha ur -> B-
:Elekid: Elekid ur
:Omanyte: Omanyte ur
:Tirtouga: Tirtouga ur
:Axew: Axew ur
:Budew: Budew ur
:Charmander: Charmander ur
:Hippopotas: Hippopotas ur
:Pancham: Pancham ur
:Pumpkaboo: Pumpkaboo-Super ur
:Riolu: Riolu ur
:Salandit: Salandit ur
Aside from
Mienfoo S -> A+
I'm a big fan of the rankings, especially the cleanup of B- and the addition of a C (finally). Truth be told, a few of the B- --> UR mons have a shot at getting into C, mainly Tirtouga and Elekid Imo, though this mainly goes for Tirtouga since Elekid kinda sucks with all the trappers flying around, but it still has some nice coverage and can be kind of hard to switch into unless you have something like Chinchou (hint hint). Not gonna go into full detail because this isn't a full on nom cuz I hate both mons, but just some food for thought.

Also happy to see my boys Chinchou and Corphish ranked together :D.
 

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