Open Discussion Tapu Lele [QC: 2/2]

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Overview

* Tapu Lele serves as one of the best pokemon to block priority with its Psychic Terrain set up from its ability Psychic Surge.

* Tapu Lele also has a threatening Special Attack stat of 130 further bolstered by Psychic Terrain that prevents most pokemon from easily switching in.

* With a Speed stat of 95, Tapu Lele lands in a pretty decent speed tier that allows it to outspeed Pokémon such as Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Landorus, and bulky Yveltal.

* Tapu Lele has a lackluster Defense stat that won't allow it to take too many physical hits from Pokémon such as Primal-Groudon or Incineroar.

* Tapu Lele sometimes was in competition with other priority blockers such as Tsareena, though Tapu Lele seems to be one of the better choices at the moment due to the power difference between Ultra Series and Sun and Moon Series

Set

name: Focus Sash
move 1: Psychic / Psyshock
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Taunt / Ally Switch
move 4: Protect
item: Focus Sash
ability: Psychic Surge
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

Set Comments

Set Details
========


* This set patches the lackluster Defense stat Tapu Lele and allows it to take a powerful hit once that allows it to follow up with either a hard hit of its own or a taunt to prevent the opponent's partner from setting up.

* You can maximize the Speed of Tapu Lele with a Timid nature such to speed-tie other Tapu Lele or you could maximize the amount of damage Tapu Lele does with a Modest nature.

* Psyshock and Psychic serve as a hard-hitting STAB for Tapu Lele.

* Psyshock does more to Pokémon such as Kyogre or Pokémon with an Assault Vest though it drops the overall power of Tapu Lele's main STAB due to its lower base power when compared to Psychic and prevents it from dealing as much damage to Pokémon such as Groudon and Landorus.

* Notably a Modest Tapu Lele 2HKO's Xeneas most of the time with Psyshock by bypassing the boost to its Special Defense from Geomancy.

* Psychic has the opposite upsides and downsides of Psyshock, it deals less to Pokémon with an Assault Vest or a high Special Defense stat though it has a higher base power and hits Pokémon with a low Special Defense stat hard.

* Moonblast serves as another STAB for Tapu Lele that lets it hit for super effective damage on Pokemon such as Yveltal and lets it not be completely walled by Pokémon such as Incineroar.

* Moonblast also hits harder than Psyshock or Psychic while out of Psychic Terrain and is boosted by 33% by Fairy Aura provided by the prevalent Xeneas.

* Taunt can serve as a way to shut down speed control moves such as Tailwind or Trick Room or any other kind of setup move such as Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, barring occasions in which the opponent is holding a Mental Herb or has the ability Oblivious.

* Ally Switch is another option over Taunt as it allows Tapu Lele to switch places with its partner such that its partner or itself can take a hit that would KO the other. When played well it can often force the opponent to make suboptimal plays to deal with it.

* Protect serves as a way to allow Tapu Lele's partner to deal with a threat on the field and it can prevent Lele from being OHKO'd by a Z-move from an opposing Pokémon.

* Timid Tape Lele misses out from KO's a Modest nature would otherwise get. Notable KO's a Modest nature gets that a Timid nature doesn't include Psyshock having a high chance to 2HKO Xeneas, a nearly 2/3 chance to OHKO Landorus-Therian with Psychic, Psyshock 2HKOing Primal Kyogre and a guaranteed OHKO on Mega Rayquaza with Moonblast.

Set

name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Psychic / Psyshock
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Dazzling Gleam / Psyshock / Psychic
move 4: Magic Room / Shadow Ball / Taunt
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Psychic Surge
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

Set Comments

Set Details
========


* The Choice Scarf allows Tapu Lele to surprise opponents by outspeeding and KO’ing Pokémon that would otherwise threaten to KO Tapu Lele first such as Mega-Gengar or Electrium-Z Tapu Koko.

* Psychic, Psyshock, and Moonblast are here again as strong STAB moves that allow Tapu Lele to be threatening to opposing Pokémon.

* Dazzling Gleam serves as a spread move that hits both opponents at the cost of power though oftentimes Psychic or Psyshock could be run over this move if either wasn’t being used before.

* Magic Room has one of its few competitive uses here as a multi-use tool that serves as a way for Tapu Lele to prevent Xerneas from using Geomancy in one turn, a way to prevent berry consumption and also as a way to free up Tapu Lele to use more than one move, though at the cost of lowering its speed for the turns it is up.

* Shadow Ball is another alternative move that allows Tapu Lele to threaten Lunala after Shadow Shield has been broken and also allows Tapu Lele to at least decently damage other Psychic-types such as Necrozma, opposing Tapu Lele and Mega Metagross.

* Taunt is another option on Tapu Lele for similar reasons to the Focus Sash set, but it allows Tapu Lele to hit targets it would have been too slow to target such as Yveltal, Crobat or Xerneas who would get off a Tailwind or a Geomancy before Taunt could land.

Damage Calcs
========

Offensive


* 252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 244 HP / 108+ SpD Amoonguss in Psychic Terrain: 222-264 (100.9 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO

* 252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 156 Def Amoonguss in Psychic Terrain: 228-270 (103.6 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

* 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 236 HP / 236+ SpD Incineroar: 70-84 (35 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

* 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 140 HP / 108 Def Xerneas in Psychic Terrain: 106-126 (48.4 - 57.5%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO

* 252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon-Primal in Psychic Terrain: 103-123 (49.7 - 59.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

* 252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian in Psychic Terrain: 141-166 (85.4 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

* 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian in Psychic Terrain: 153-181 (92.7 - 109.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

* 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Kyogre-Primal in Psychic Terrain: 114-135 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

* 252+ SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 180-212 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

* 252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence-Mega: 180-212 (105.8 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive

* 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele in Rain: 115-136 (78.7 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

* 252 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 123-145 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

* 20 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 118-141 (81.3 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

* 252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 88-105 (60.6 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

* 196 SpA Aerilate Salamence-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 55-66 (37.9 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Usage Tips

* Tapu Lele should be brought in to counter a suspected Fake Out such as an Incineroar lead and even seeing Tapu Lele in team preview will make people hesitate to lead with Fake Out.

* Choice Scarf Tapu Lele often can defend against many Pokémon who KO Tapu Lele only on the basis of outspeeding it such as Mega Gengar or Mega Rayquaza.

* Pokémon with a lower Special Defense such as Primal Groudon or Landorus can often be threatened by Tapu Lele's presence.

* There are several Tailwind setters that are not grounded that outspeed Tapu Lele such Yveltal and Tornadus and priority such as Fake Out from Pokémon such as Incineroar or Hitmontop can still affect them. People using Tapu Lele should keep this in mind when bringing a Tapu Lele + Fake Out user lead as this lead often can land a taunt on these Tailwind setters that normally outspeed Tapu Lele.

* Tapu Lele can be used to reset Terrains such that its partners will take less damage from an opposing STAB move from one of the Tapus, one of its partners can land a status move despite an opposing Terrain or to boost the damage output of its teammate's Psychic STAB attack on the same turn.

Team Options

* Tapu Lele can be used as a good way to defend your team against priority such as Fake Out or Prankster and should be utilized on teams that don't want to have to deal with such threats such as teams that want to run Pokémon with grounded speed control or setup such as Tailwind Kartana, Trick Room Dusk Mane Necrozma or Geomancy Xerneas. Though, blocking a Fake Out turn one is enjoyed by most if not all teams.

* Psychic Terrain doesn't have to be used solely to block priority, it can also be used to overwrite other Terrains set by Pokémon such as Tapu Fini or Tapu Koko. Misty and Electric Terrain block sleep-inducing moves such as Spore or Lovely Kiss and being able to remove this Terrain to put a Pokémon to sleep can be critical and as a result, Smeargle and Amoongus often appreciate the help they can get from Tapu Lele.

* Tapu Lele pairs well with Psychic-type Pokémon such as Necrozma or Metagross as Psychic Terrain multiplies the damage of their Psychic STAB moves by 1.5x and can allow them to dish out heavier hits than they would normally. Additionally, it protects them from Sucker Punch from Pokémon such as Yveltal or Mawile which often can KO or at least heavily damage these Pokémon.

* Tapu Lele also serves as a great way to activate Psychic Seed and can be seen paired with Pokémon such as Yveltal that would hold the item such to help guarantee that it can take the hits to guarantee that Tailwind goes up.

* Taunt on Tapu Lele is very helpful in shutting down Trick Room and is further bolstered by Pokémon such as Yveltal or Kartana who can Knock Off the Mental Herb that many dedicated Trick Room teams run on their main Trick Room setter before Tapu Lele lands the Taunt.

* Primal Kyogre greatly appreciates the protection from Fake Out such that it can launch its powerful STAB moves without interruption, especially Water Spout which won't have its damage output hindered by priority chipping away at its health.

* Tapu Lele can take on a bulkier set using Psychic Seed or Assault Vest such to allow it to soak up more hits more reliably and to be able to provide Psychic Terrain throughout the match.

* On the other hand, Tapu Lele can go for a more offensive set using Psychium-Z such to allow it to nab KO's on pokemon who would not expect an OHKO and punch holes in the enemy team.

Checks and Counters

* Tapu Lele struggles to take on physical threats that can threaten to easily KO such as Mega Rayquaza or Primal Groudon.

* Tapu Lele can be overwhelmed by heavy hitting special attackers as well such as Xerneas after a Geomancy or Primal Kyogre.

* Outside of the uncommon set running Focus Blast, Tapu Lele has few options that truly threaten Steel Types such as Kartana or Ferrothorn.

* Tapu Lele is completely hard walled by Dusk Mane Necrozma as it resists both of Tapu Lele's STABs, can use Psychic Terrain against Tapu Lele as it boosts its own Psychic STAB and can set up Trick Room with no chances for Fake Out or Prankster Taunt to affect it.

* Ghost-Types such as Mega Gengar or Lunala outspeed non-Choice Scarf variants of Tapu Lele and often can OHKO.

* Incineroar, despite having its Fake Out blocked is still very threatening to Tapu Lele as it is immune to its Psychic STAB and can take more than its fair share of Moonblasts. On the offensive end, it can KO easily with its physical attacks, get out a faster threat that more easily KO's Tapu Lele with a slow U-Turn or it could lower the Special Attack of Tapu Lele and its partner with Snarl.

Credits

* Written by: Luckyboy123
* Quality Checked by: Jio, Netherious, TPO3
 
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Netherious

formerly Shivershaft
is a Pre-Contributor
I know you aren't done, but when you get a chance if you can also add a brief checks and counters section. our new SOP will include checks and counters.

Thanks!
 

Netherious

formerly Shivershaft
is a Pre-Contributor
Three things:

1.) great work!

2.) Have you considered an AV or Seed set? Not sure if usage is demanding of it, however i think it is worth mentioning somewhere that a bulky set can exist in a meta such as this.

3.) Ally switch. It's the best worst strategy people hate to acknowledge. I think it should be an option on the Focus Sash set. When played smart, it can win entire matches. I'ts something to consider and I'd like to hear others' thoughts on it as well.
 
Hi! I've noticed some stuff that you might want to have in mind:

  • Taunt is really good in the Scarf set as an alternative to Magic Room, as it stops TR setters and Sash Crobat which can cause problems to Xerneas
  • Why are some calcs with Timid Lele and other calcs are with Modest? You should explain why is better to use Modest or Timid for each set, mentioning which calcs you're missing by running Timid and what you KO by running Modest, as well as speed tiers to keep in mind
  • Some of the calcs make little to zero sense:
    • Modest Moonblast vs AV Yveltal = 25% KO is terrible and speaks bad for lele
    • Modest Psychic vs Amoonguss and after that Timid Psyshock doesn't show the difference between the two sets.
    • Terrain boosted Psychic vs Pdon doesn't say much as it will always 2hko (or you could show a calc vs spdef invested pdon)
    • Defensive calcs aren't important as you are running 0 defense investment, and using calcs such as Timid Kyogre, Incineroar, Foul Play from Yveltal or +2 4 SpA Dazzling Gleam seems like you are making up those calcs to show that Lele is better than it actually is.
 
Sorry for the delay on the last half of edits, I'll have them done hopefully well before the end of this week
 
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Psychic Terrain doesn’t affect Mega Rayquaza, and it can just Extreme Speed and KO you, so Scarf Lele doesn’t really outspeed and deal with Rayquaza?
 
Psychic Terrain doesn’t affect Mega Rayquaza, and it can just Extreme Speed and KO you, so Scarf Lele doesn’t really outspeed and deal with Rayquaza?
Psychic terrain affects grounded pokemon when they are attacked. In this example, Tapu Lele could still use the terrain to its advantage as it is grounded and therefore able to use the terrain, but if a priority move targeted a non-grounded Pokémon like Rayquaza it would get hit since it would not have access to the terrain. The only case in which Extreme Speed would be able to target a Pokémon is if it targeted another non-grounded Pokémon.
 
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Psychic terrain affects grounded pokemon when they are attacked. In this example, Tapu Lele could still use the terrain to its advantage as it is grounded and therefore able to use the terrain, but if a priority move targeted a non-grounded Pokémon like Rayquaza it would get hit since it would not have access to the terrain. The only case in which Extreme Speed would be able to target a Pokémon is if it targeted another non-grounded Pokémon.
Haha I totally did know that, I think my brain was working it out backwards.

Mega Ray is so ridiculous and I’m struggling to come up with good ideas to reliably beat it
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
Nice work overall! A few small edits:

I'd mention Primal Kyogre in the "Team Options" section. Even without its Choice Scarf set, protecting it from priority attacks so Water Spout can do maximum damage is still really helpful. In the point where you mention Psychic-types, I'd also highlight that Tapu lele protects them from Sucker Punch, because that's one of the biggest threats to pokemon like Ultra Necrozma and Lunala.

Also in the "Team Options" section, I'd probably remove Whimsicott. I get where you're coming from w/ the grounded tailwind users, but Whimsicott ends up being hindered by not being able to abuse its ability with attacks like Encore/Fake Tears, etc. You could expand this section to being grounded Speed Control in general, since TR setters like Stakataka/Dusk Mane will enjoy protection from Prankster taunt. Grounded setup pokemon in general (especially Xerneas!) enjoy the protection from Taunt.

In Usage Tips, I'd mention that on a team with Spore/Lovely Kiss/whatever, Tapu lele can be used to reset terrains from Tapu Koko/Fini that would otherwise prevent your sleep-inducing moves from working. On that same thought, I'd also add Smeargle and Amoonguss "Team Options" section.

Incineroar should be mentioned in Checks/Counters. Like yeah, Fake Out gets blocked, but it's immuen to psychic/psyshock, and moonblast only 2hkos it at absolute best. It's got strong physical options to threaten lele, Snarl to reduce its damage output, and a slow u-turn to allow a faster physical threat like Mega Salamence to swap in for free.

I'd add Dusk-Mane Necrozma to the steel-type section of "checks and counters" because it not only absorbs Lele's attacks with relative ease, but it can also abuse Tapu Lele's psychic terrain with its own STAB, and potentially set up a TR while being protected from Fake Out/Prankster Taunt.
 

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