Serious Teacher loses appeal to return to teaching because of history in pornography

[jrrrrrrr]

i'm not being intellectually dishonest at all. you said people were putting words in your mouth and that you would feel the same way if a man was in porn, and i pointed out that as defiled is unquestionably not a gender-neutral term (not about to argue about gay sex with you, and honestly it's even stranger to me that you, a gay guy, would consider being fucked up the ass by another dude being 'defiled'), and that using it over just saying 'having sex on camera' betrays a complete lack of gender-neutrality on the issue.

Let me take your suggestion and replace 'defiled' with your phrase in that sentence:

You don't just wake up one day and decide to have sex on camera [to be] passed around forever on the internet.

Ok, that still sounds pretty reasonable and now it is even gender-neutral enough for your standards.

lol wow, seeing how in your eyes jobs that 'literally anyone can do' are an admission that one is incapable of anything more, it's pretty surprising that you have any respect for these people at all. them working those shitty jobs belies how little respect they have for themselves, doesn't it?

I worked at those "shitty jobs" before. It was not an inspiration of self-respect, it was an admission that I had no qualifications to do anything else. I still put it on my resume and mentioned it in interviews.

Can you people please explain why you think being a janitor brings about the same emotions as being a porn star?

i wasn't even addressing you, j7r, when i said that? as for "suffering," is this why girls who suffer from rape were asking for it, because they dressed in such a way that their attacker was completely helpless to combat their personal arousal? how about you google image "kiss my ass" and pick your favorite to portray what i think about all of that

Are you serious with this? What does this have to do with rape, at all? I was ready to give you the old thumbs up for the classic "claim sexism based on one word, dismiss entire post" move but you really caught me off guard with this. Since you obviously can't be bothered to look it up to protect your world view, let me read the first google search result to clarify what I mean:

The relationship between sexual desire and arousal in men is complex, with a wide range of factors increasing or decreasing sexual arousal.[23] Physiological responses, such as heart rate, blood pressure, and erection, are often discordant with self-reported subjective perceptions of arousal.[24] This inconsistency suggests that psychological, or cognitive aspects, also have a strong effect on sexual arousal. The cognitive aspects of sexual arousal in men are not completely known, but it does involve the appraisal and evaluation of the stimulus, categorization of the stimulus as sexual, and an affective response.[25] Research suggests that cognitive factors, such as sexual motivation, perceived gender role expectations, and sexual attitudes, contribute to sex differences observed in subjective sexual arousal. Specifically, while watching visual stimuli, men are more influenced by the sex of an actor portrayed in the stimulus, and men typically prefer a stimulus that allows objectification of the actor and projection of themselves into the scenario.[26][27] There are reported differences in brain activation to sexual stimuli, with men showing higher levels of amygdala and hypothalamic responses than women. This suggests the amygdala plays a critical role in the processing of sexually arousing visual stimuli in men.[22]

So you were right, you shouldn't pretend to understand the male's relationship to brain and body.

I think you're misunderstanding the point of that analogy. There's obviously a huge difference between being a porn actor/actress and being of non-heterosexual orientation, but the point of the analogy is that both groups are being treated differently from the norm despite their unusual state not really relating to the situation at hand.

Still, being gay has never made me lie to the american taxpayer about my work history.

 

[Glen]

Let me take your suggestion and replace 'defiled' with your phrase in that sentence:

You don't just wake up one day and decide to have sex on camera [to be] passed around forever on the internet.

Ok, that still sounds pretty reasonable and now it is even gender-neutral enough for your standards.

yeah, that's much more reasonable. maybe had you used those words initially you would have sounded a bit less bigoted!

I worked at those "shitty jobs" before. It was not an inspiration of self-respect, it was an admission that I had no qualifications to do anything else. I still put it on my resume and mentioned it in interviews.

you literally said in an earlier post that the job one works is the summation of their self respect. do i really have to go back and quote it?

furthermore the implication that having walked a mile in a janitor's shoes has given you some deep respect for them while refusing to entertain the idea that doing the same thing with a porn star might result in a similar level of understanding is kind of ridiculous

Can you people please explain why you think being a janitor brings about the same emotions as being a porn star?

it doesn't. but that's not exactly relevant. your 'trump card' or whatever was to keep asking people if they'd encourage their daughters to become pornstars, thinking that them responding with a resolute 'no' would be indicative of them agreeing with you in some way. but it's not. just because you wouldn't encourage your daughter to do something it doesn't make it inherently wrong, and that was the purpose of the janitor analogy.

 

[Fishy]

The relationship between sexual desire and arousal in men is complex, with a wide range of factors increasing or decreasing sexual arousal.[23] Physiological responses, such as heart rate, blood pressure, and erection, are often discordant with self-reported subjective perceptions of arousal.[24] This inconsistency suggests that psychological, or cognitive aspects, also have a strong effect on sexual arousal. The cognitive aspects of sexual arousal in men are not completely known, but it does involve the appraisal and evaluation of the stimulus, categorization of the stimulus as sexual, and an affective response.[25] Research suggests that cognitive factors, such as sexual motivation, perceived gender role expectations, and sexual attitudes, contribute to sex differences observed in subjective sexual arousal. Specifically, while watching visual stimuli, men are more influenced by the sex of an actor portrayed in the stimulus, and men typically prefer a stimulus that allows objectification of the actor and projection of themselves into the scenario.[26][27] There are reported differences in brain activation to sexual stimuli, with men showing higher levels of amygdala and hypothalamic responses than women. This suggests the amygdala plays a critical role in the processing of sexually arousing visual stimuli in men.[22]

So you were right, you shouldn't pretend to understand the male's relationship to brain and body.

correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think i noticed any clinical terms in your google search that are synonymous with "catatonic stupor" or "frontal lobe impairment" or anything that negates my point at all. all your pasted results say is basically "when a man is aroused, chemical reactions occur in these parts of the brain, and this is why he is aroused, regardless of specific subjective or objectively perceived stimuli." which is, you know, common knowledge? like, i honestly don't understand what that information better explained to support "yeah actually, being a male with an erection is tough, you have no idea what it's like!"

my rape example was only a drastic interpretation of what you were saying, which is an idea commonly applied to victim-blaming in those scenarios, but that's an entirely different topic, and i don't want to derail this thread toward that avenue whatsoever. my point was, and still is, that you are not incapable of rational thought while you are having an erection. i don't care how stimulated your amygdala is, your frontal lobe does not toss morality out the window when your dick is hard.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

you literally said in an earlier post that the job one works is the summation of their self respect. do i really have to go back and quote it?

furthermore the implication that having walked a mile in a janitor's shoes has given you some deep respect for them while refusing to entertain the idea that doing the same thing with a porn star might result in a similar level of understanding is kind of ridiculous

I didn't have much self-respect when I was bussing tables and cleaning bathrooms at age 17 and I was still smart enough to realize that people in the future will ask me how I used to make money. She was in her 20s when she did porn and expected that lying about her work history is ok? For a PUBLIC TEACHING JOB? Paid for by us???

it doesn't. but that's not exactly relevant. your 'trump card' or whatever was to keep asking people if they'd encourage their daughters to become pornstars, thinking that them responding with a resolute 'no' would be indicative of them agreeing with you in some way. but it's not. just because you wouldn't encourage your daughter to do something it doesn't make it inherently wrong, and that was the purpose of the janitor analogy.

I'm glad we cleared up the 'defiled' comment. It was charged, but I stand by the fact that it was not based out of bigotry since that involves prejudice and my viewpoint is entirely after the events have occurred.

The reason why I asked people if they would have their kids do porn is to illustrate a double-standard in a relatable way. They would never want their kids to think that porn is a good career path, but they want someone who took porn as a career path to be a major influence on their kids for a big year in their development. That means you're telling your kids to ignore your teachers or that doing porn might be a good option

my rape example was only a drastic interpretation of what you were saying, which is an idea commonly applied to victim-blaming in those scenarios, but that's an entirely different topic, and i don't want to derail this thread toward that avenue whatsoever. my point was, and still is, that you are not incapable of rational thought while you are having an erection. i don't care how stimulated your amygdala is, your frontal lobe does not toss morality out the window when your dick is hard.

I hope my posts didn't give you that impression, apologies for the misinterpretation. I never suggested that being impaired with horniness is a justification for rape. Just that it is in fact a significant impairment, and would definitely affect boys when they see the images. Maybe not every boy, but enough of them to make it an issue

 

[Glen]

The reason why I asked people if they would have their kids do porn is to illustrate a double-standard in a relatable way. They would never want their kids to think that porn is a good career path, but they want someone who took porn as a career path to be a major influence on their kids for a big year in their development.

yes, we get that, and the janitor argument was to illustrate how your attempt was flawed. as i said, just because you don't want your daughter to do something, it doesn't make it intrinsically wrong. i'm pretty sure most people would discourage their daughters from getting pregnant at 18. i'm pretty even more people would discourage their daughters from shielding a random infant with their body from a flurry of bullets. neither of those acts are ignoble.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

ok, now I can at least understand why the janitor is comparable. But I still think that the permanence of pornography makes it different than any other profession, and it takes a lot more of something very different to convince yourself to do porn vs janitorial work

 

[Glen]

ok, now I can at least understand why the janitor is comparable. But I still think that the permanence of pornography makes it different than any other profession, and it takes a lot more of something very different to convince yourself to do porn vs janitorial work

yes, it's absolutely more permanent due to the societal stigma against it, but the people who disagree with you do so because they feel that said stigma is unreasonable.

on that note, i'm sure a lot of people in some southern states would discourage their white daughter from marrying a black man, while not actually having a problem with black people nor with interracial marriage; they just know that the society they live in would generally be intolerant of it. maybe this is a better analogy than the janitor thing.

 

[capefeather]

The ball is on your court if you want to prove that most younger classes would be ok with a porn star.

There are two possibilities:

1. You're implicitly claiming that any class being immature is a significant blow to a teacher's credibility. This matter has been extensively discussed here. I think everyone's conclusion on that (more or less) is that it is a hit to her perceived credibility, but that's not necessarily a hit to her actual credibility. I think the only sticking point is whether part of the job is being in front of a camera? Also I guess it would be nice if someone posted some relevant study, though admittedly those have been hard to find for me. Or perhaps I'm not trying hard enough. This thread, not exactly my top priority.

2. You're claiming that TheValkyries's specific class was specially mature. Gonna say you're the one with burden of proof if you're doing this.

It's fine for you to disagree, but please give me something more than your embarrassing straw men.

But your sentiment is right, we should be encouraging each other to ignore anything we disagree with instead of trying to find a factual justification for our beliefs.

...

nice straw man

EDIT:

Let me be clear on my intentions here the way I did in the anti-science thread. I don't go into these threads with a judgmental attitude. It saddens me that people on both sides of an issue like this one like to condemn the other side. "For shame!" As for me, I ultimately wouldn't say that the school board, or the parents, or the judge, or even the people defending them with so much zeal are "bad people", any more than an employer would consider someone they're about to fire a "bad person". Judgment and condemnation of people are inherently biased, so imo they have no place in a scientifically minded discussion, and imo every discussion should, in spirit, be scientifically minded.

In this case, the condemnation is a bit more subtle, but it's still there. I don't care if one claims that one doesn't consider Ms. Halas a "bad person". Calling her a "bad role model" is functionally the same thing, requiring the same ridiculous amount of assumptions as one would need to call her a "bad person" overall. People like to criticize their opponents by saying that they're no better. Me? I can claim one distinguishing characteristic that you cannot take away and claim for yourself... unless you, too, embrace the (imo) very liberating notion of not carrying a judgmental attitude toward people - as role models or as "decent people" or otherwise - based on what is inevitably a non-whole portion of their parts.

 

[verbatim]

The judge said she was deceitful, I am not the one you have to convince regarding that facet of the story. We have the same sources of information here. And once again, religion/race/orientation/etc is a terrible analogy. It would be more analogous to hiding an old drug addiction. Not technically illegal but it's quite a hill to climb.

I was not aware that she openly lied about her past, I withdraw my sentiment.

As a gay person it's getting really offensive to hear how being in porn is just like being gay. People are not born on their knees in front of a film crew. Apparently all of us are sympathetic to discrimination against gays, and I am happy about that, but please take the next step and try to understand the perspective of one.

I apologize for bringing your sexuality into this. My example was not comparing the morality of the two, but using both as an example of things that are considered negative in the public eye, much like race once was (and I suppose still is in certain areas).

 

[Fishy]

she only lied by omission; it's not like she ticked "no" on her resume for the field HAS BEEN A PORN STAR.

 

[alexwolf]

Here is my, maybe simplistic, feedback on the matter...

Kids learn discipline. I am not talking about anything extreme, but is it unreasonable to ask from the adminstration of the school to punish the kids that insult the teacher (by either calling her with her porn nick or whatever)? After a while they will stop being dicks, and after the dust settles down and they get tired jerking off with their teacher, then the problem will be almost solved. Of 'course the close-minded parents will be still there and will want to protect their ''innocent angels'' from the ''devil woman'' but at least trying to solve this mess (by punishing the students that mock the teacher) would be better than just firing her.

And finally wtf ala? Haven't you heard off really hard time or times that there are very few paths to take? Stop being so absolute. It is possible that this woman maybe had no other viable choices than to do porn at this time. And no, doing porn is not connected to just having a big need for moeny. It is the main motive sure, but there are other factors as well. You must have the connections, the mood to do this, the sexual experience, etc. A lot of factors drove her into that corner, and saying that she should think of her future in such (possibly)hard times is just unfair. You are asking too much from a person that can't give you that much.(metaforically speaking) It's like asking from a person that doesn't have to eat it's opinion about politics. The answer is he couldn't care less. And the same could have been for her. She may had been into such a difficult position, that expecting from her to think about her future would be too much too ask. To have a future you must have first a guaranteed present and if you don't things get ugly.

(Sry if some of those don't make sense, trying as hard as i can with the english i know)

EDIT: Oh and something last. I just find funny jrrrrr's obsession with tax payers. We get it you are a tax payer but pls cut that crap(the tax payer crap)...

 

[Eggbert]

You're implicitly claiming that any class being immature is a significant blow to a teacher's credibility. This matter has been extensively discussed here. I think everyone's conclusion on that (more or less) is that it is a hit to her perceived credibility, but that's not necessarily a hit to her actual credibility. I think the only sticking point is whether part of the job is being in front of a camera? Also I guess it would be nice if someone posted some relevant study, though admittedly those have been hard to find for me. Or perhaps I'm not trying hard enough. This thread, not exactly my top priority.

It's clear that parents don't want porn involved people with teaching their children. Remember when that one porn star got the flak for reading to children? Remember when that other one, tiffany six, got in trouble for teaching children? How is this not affecting her ability to teach without problems? Perceived or not, she is still hindered. The whole "she could still be a good teacher despite being a porn star" argument is flawed, because the uproar over her being a porn star affects her ability to teach. It's not socially acceptable for porn related people to teach children, and it shouldn't be.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

EDIT: Oh and something last. I just find funny jrrrrr's obsession with tax payers. We get it you are a tax payer but pls cut that crap(the tax payer crap)...

I like your post btw, but I wanted to address this since it's about me. The tax payers stance is huge in whatever country you live in. It's YOU who is paying for all of this, YOU are the taxpayer, not just me. You are paying for the public judges of the public courts to decide if the actions of the public school administrator were proper when dealing with a public school teacher, and for the appeals. Even if you don't have a job, that extra % on everything you buy is sponsoring this circus. That's money that could be put in your pocket, or towards educating children.

she only lied by omission; it's not like she ticked "no" on her resume for the field HAS BEEN A PORN STAR.

Lying by omission is still lying, especially with something that everyone knows will cause a circus with kids like this. And do we have the judge's ruling? I want to see what the actual quote was.

I apologize for bringing your sexuality into this. My example was not comparing the morality of the two, but using both as an example of things that are considered negative in the public eye, much like race once was (and I suppose still is in certain areas).

No need for apologies, I hope everyone comes into this thread with good intentions. I can see why people bring prejudice into the mix, because they do tingle the same parts of my brain. But there is a clear difference. Nobody wants their kid to be in porn, but I'm sure most people in this thread wouldn't be *that* upset if their kid said they were gay on their 18th birthday. The ideas behind my reaction to those two statements (porn vs gay) are so far apart that it's really difficult to comprehend how anyone could make that comparison. One is the result of a thought process and an action and then going out and selling it and being convinced that it's a good idea, the other (being gay) just happens. I don't know enough about psychology to articulate that difference, but it definitely exists. That's why I tried asking if anyone wanted to volunteer their family to do porn. Once you can see that two different attitudes exist in all of us, then someone can help me explain whats happening -_-

Imagine you chillin in your living room and your kid comes in on his or her 18th birthday. What would you prefer them to say? "Dad/Mom, Guess where I just was! :

A) "My boyfriend/girlfriend's house!"
B) "Starring in my first porno!"

I hope that illustrates why I think the two are completely different. You can even make it an interracial homosexual lover and I bet everyone in this thread will still pick A. Why is that? If being in a porn when you need money is so admirable and comparable, why hasn't anyone picked B yet? Not even one!!

yes, it's absolutely more permanent due to the societal stigma against it, but the people who disagree with you do so because they feel that said stigma is unreasonable.

I also meant that it is literally permanent. Anyone in this thread or her class can watch these videos right now and they will be able to for the forseeable future, pending closure of the internet. As Deck Knight mentioned, it could be a legal liability and it has definitely caused enough of a shitstorm to be called a distraction.

nice straw man

It's not a straw man if you say you're going to ignore me because you disagree, and then I say that's what you're announcing....

In this case, the condemnation is a bit more subtle, but it's still there. I don't care if one claims that one doesn't consider Ms. Halas a "bad person". Calling her a "bad role model" is functionally the same thing, requiring the same ridiculous amount of assumptions as one would need to call her a "bad person" overall. People like to criticize their opponents by saying that they're no better. Me? I can claim one distinguishing characteristic that you cannot take away and claim for yourself... unless you, too, embrace the (imo) very liberating notion of not carrying a judgmental attitude toward people - as role models or as "decent people" or otherwise - based on what is inevitably a non-whole portion of their parts.

1) Bernie Madoff was a bad person and a bad role model. Ms Halas is just a bad role model. Nobody wants their kids to do porn, which means you are telling kids to do the opposite of what Ms Halas did. That sounds like a bad role model to me.

2) She shouldn't be judged, but I should be judged, because I'm so judgmental?
3) Are you really still trying to say that judging someone for their actions is a bad thing?

 

[Mastadi]

1) Bernie Madoff was a bad person and a bad role model. Ms Halas is just a bad role model. Nobody wants their kids to do porn, which means you are telling kids to do the opposite of what Ms Halas did. That sounds like a bad role model to me.

The same could be applied to a lot of jobs and professions. I wouldn't necessarily want my kid to be a garbage man, for example, but that doesn't mean that anyone who is or ever was a bin man is a bad role model. There's more to a person that their career choices, and even working the 'bad' jobs don't necessarily equate with the person being a bad role model from a purely work centric point of view, as there are many factors beyond our control which affect our career.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Ok, I really don't think I can explain my position on that any more. You seriously think that being in porn is the same as being a janitor/trashman. There's nothing else I can say here that I haven't already said, let's just stop with that spiral. Although now that I think about it, if there was a video of my janitor's naked******* getting ************ by a trans******** in my local public school I think there might be a similar reaction from a lot of people.

 

[alexwolf]

When your job is to teach the children of the parents that you are causing unrest for, it is an easily justifiable cause for termination.

Do you really want a porn star teaching your kids? "Ignore the fact that she was paid to have her defiled naked body passed around on film for you to see at any time, this honorable woman is here to teach you about morals and the civil war!" Get outta here. Is that the person you want to look up to? Is that who you want your kids looking up to? This is one of the few cases where a school administrator got it right, it was completely right for them to fire her. It is simply impossible for her to be taken seriously in an academic context once that information is released. That is one of the known risks of doing porn.

The only person who should be getting sympathy in this situation is her father. What a shame for him. I have no idea what I would do if I saw my daughter in a porn, let alone if the whole world knew about it forever thanks to google.



Suck dick for money, you can become successful doing it just like your middle school teacher! What a great lesson for kids to learn. What a real success story. I assume you'll be there to encourage your daughter to do porn when she turns 18?

I can't believe what I just read.

jrrrr as much as i want to see from where you are coming from, posts such as this one make me feel really ashamed. I know it isn't right for some people to dismiss your opinion just because they disagree with you, and of 'course you will defend yourself because you are not saying anything wrong by your books, but the simple fact that you see a small career in the porn industry as such as a reason to stigmatize a person for the rest of its life, this honestly makes you fucking cruel and inhuman.

You keep saying ''is this the person your kids should look up to'' or this certain jewel:

Suck dick for money, you can become successful doing it just like your middle school teacher! What a great lesson for kids to learn. What a real success story. I assume you'll be there to encourage your daughter to do porn when she turns 18?

.. like the only things that this woman did is suck dicks for money. This is in the past and doesn't define who she is now. If i am a parent and this teacher is ok in the present for all i know why should i care if she did porn in the past? Because my little boy angel will make his dick flatter than an LCD? This is just a phase that will pass... And as i said before with the right actions it would pass really quick, if the school had the teacher's back, and the parents were less idiotic and sympathized with her, then measures could have been taken to enable the teacher to have her authority over the class again. If one of the kids insults her, punish it, as you would with any other insulting of teacher. After the boys get tired of masturbating with their teacher (won't be so long, 2-3 weeks tops) and they start getting annoyed with all those punishments they will stop behaving like little shits and adapt to the situation.

So the way i see it, no matter what we say to you, this teacher will always be a woman that sucked cocks for money, and thus is unable to fulfill her duties. If this view isn't prejudiced and really damn conservative then i don't know what it is.

 

[elcheeso]

Long story short, J7R, eggbert, Deck Knight and whoever else believe that the stigma associated with doing porno is appropriate/justified, most of the other people disagree with that. Really all there is to it. Incidentally J7R, like I said, having a historical perspective on how gay people have been seen over the years would really help you understand why many people would make the comparison between the two, even if most of the people here aren't old enough to have first hand experience with it. You're basically on the wrong side of history. Sucks, huh?

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Long story short, J7R, eggbert, Deck Knight and whoever else believe that the stigma associated with doing porno is appropriate/justified, most of the other people disagree with that. Really all there is to it. Incidentally J7R, like I said, having a historical perspective on how gay people have been seen over the years would really help you understand why many people would make the comparison between the two, even if most of the people here aren't old enough to have first hand experience with it. You're basically on the wrong side of history. Sucks, huh?

The wrong side of history? Go back to Reddit lol. You're saying that the right side of history encourages poor people to do porn when desperate for money, because that is a good clear path to success later in life? Ok, I'll be on the other side of that. Fair enough. You can go ahead and encourage your families to do that because you're so progressive!

And quit with the horrible and offensive gay analogy. Nobody is born on their knees asking for penis in exchange for money front of a camera.

And as i said before with the right actions it would pass really quick, if the school had the teacher's back, and the parents were less idiotic and sympathized with her, then measures could have been taken to enable the teacher to have her authority over the class again.

So the way i see it, no matter what we say to you, this teacher will always be a woman that sucked cocks for money, and thus is unable to fulfill her duties. If this view isn't prejudiced and really damn conservative then i don't know what it is.

"Prejudiced"....meaning judged before knowing the extent of her actions...we have a list of actions she made. It is literally the exact opposite of prejudice.

And you hit the nail on the head. "With the right actions it would pass really quick". But it's been like a year of publicity, and dragged through courts and multiple appeals, after the deceitful resume. Mistakes were made on both ends but it's no longer possible to go back after that.

 

[elcheeso]

I'd say suck it up, nancy. You're not the only gay guy responding, and quite frankly you're too young and utterly ignorant about how openly gay people were treated 20+ years ago to really have any clue about the history I'm talking about. I'm sure you're really progressive when it benefits you, but you know what? You're born with your orientation, sure, so that can't be compared to acting in porn... but once you start dating/fucking men? That is an action that can be judged. Lo and behold, that's what people did, and it's still what people do! Of course, that sort of judgement is bad because it's something you choose to engage in, right? Don't worry though, I'd judge heterosexuals equally for fucking the same sex! It's not prejudice! When people do legal things that harm no one and people shit on them for it because it's "morally wrong" or something you wouldn't engage in or find icky gross, it's alright to say that they had judgement coming though, naturally.

Again, doing porn in the current ass backwards climate that you encourage is not ideal, but I'll be fucking damned if I contribute to shitting all over the people who choose to get into it on their own terms in words or action, especially if they end up quitting the industry. You are not preventing sex work, you're just making it harder for someone to quit to go back to a "real job".

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I know nothing about how gays are treated but everyone else here does. Selling porn is conducive to a teaching career with children. Being a porn star is just like being black or gay. Lying on a resume to become a public teacher is good because she was lying about something that everyone universally recognizes as a sensitive topic with teenage kids. Kids should see porn as a blueprint for success. And if anyone disagrees, they hate all women.

You're right, maybe I'm not progressive enough to keep up with you. I really can't bring myself to accept those above statements, I don't think that makes me a bad person. No amount of insults you throw at me will change that. Although it is funny to hear about how ignorant I am of how gay people are treated.

 

[TheValkyries]

I know nothing about how gays are treated but everyone else here does.

No, the argument is more you don't understand how porn actresses/actors are being treated heavily unfairly, so people are forced to use an analogy consisting of the treatment of gays to show the lack of reason/logic.

Selling porn is conducive to a teaching career with children.

No one has made this argument. A) She was a porn actress not a porn distributor, so she never sold porn. B) The real argument is that being a Porn Actress is irrelevant to your teaching ability, nor is it relevant credentials.

Being a porn star is just like being black or gay.

Again, no one made this argument, the comparison is that there is a cultural stigma against those people that are 100% not based on reason. The comparison was drawn to outline the stigma to you, who was perpetuating it, yet claiming not to. These were what we call counterexamples, to illustrate the flawed logic and lack of reasoning behind your arguments.

Lying on a resume to become a public teacher is good because she was lying about something that everyone universally recognizes as a sensitive topic with teenage kids.

She never lied on her resume. She listed the pertinent credentials for her qualification to do the job. Which is the purpose of the resume.

Kids should see porn as a blueprint for success.

No one made this argument either. Like there's not even a misunderstanding here that I can clarify, literally no one has said anything like this. You're the one who is tossing that idea around.

And if anyone disagrees, they hate all women.

No, they say you hate all women for acting as if the things they do with their body ruin them as a person. But that's not really a misogynist idea, but more of someone who simply hates open sexuality. No less unreasonable, but still not quite the same.

You're right, maybe I'm not progressive enough to keep up with you. I really can't bring myself to accept those above statements, I don't think that makes me a bad person. No amount of insults you throw at me will change that.

No you're not a bad person for not accepting the above statements, because not only are all of those above statements completely illogical and bereft of reason, they also happen to be things no one here has asked you to accept. So really, it's a win win, you get to hold to your morals about those things, and we don't really have to care about your position since your stances aren't relevant at all.

Although it is funny to hear about how ignorant I am of how gay people are treated.

I guess you need it for the third time in this post. No one has said this. They've said you are ignorant of how there is a stigma against people of the porn industry. Once again, the analogy of gay people was brought up as a counterexample to show the lack of logic in numerous arguments throughout this thread.




AND JUST AS ONE LITTLE PARTING QUESTION TO THE WHOLE THREAD:

Why is it assumed that to be in the porn industry, she had to be down on her luck, and needed cash? While Jrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr failed miserably in trying to display the hypocrisy of those in this thread, he was not wrong in that there is hypocrisy. Many act as if porn as a profession, while deplorable at its core, is acceptable if the actor/actress needed the money and it was an act of desperation, and not a personal choice. A stance that at it's core does not differ significantly from those who say the industry is deplorable, and that those who partake in it cannot be allowed near children.


Also an observation: I am uncertain but if I remember correctly, Deck Knight is, on the whole, referring to Ms. Halas as Tiffany Six, rather than her real name. This doesn't imply anything but it does open itself up to a slew of misogynistic jokes at the least. "She's not a person, she's done porn" etc. etc. No substance to this though, just fun shit.

 

[Mastadi]

Why is it assumed that to be in the porn industry, she had to be down on her luck, and needed cash? While Jrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr failed miserably in trying to display the hypocrisy of those in this thread, he was not wrong in that there is hypocrisy. Many act as if porn as a profession, while deplorable at its core, is acceptable if the actor/actress needed the money and it was an act of desperation, and not a personal choice. A stance that at it's core does not differ significantly from those who say the industry is deplorable, and that those who partake in it cannot be allowed near children.

I'd disagree with you here. I think the main reason people see acting in pornography as a last resort is because of society views of it. There's obviously a lot of stigma surrounding it, and even if one might like the idea of it, they might be unwilling to do it just because of what their friends or family might think of them afterwards, leading to the job being thought of as something people only do when they see no other viable options. However, being aware of society's opinion and its consequences does not necessarily mean agreeing with it.

 

[capefeather]

It's clear that parents don't want porn involved people with teaching their children. Remember when that one porn star got the flak for reading to children? Remember when that other one, tiffany six, got in trouble for teaching children? How is this not affecting her ability to teach without problems? Perceived or not, she is still hindered. The whole "she could still be a good teacher despite being a porn star" argument is flawed, because the uproar over her being a porn star affects her ability to teach. It's not socially acceptable for porn related people to teach children, and it shouldn't be.

Well, if this is just about the stigma, surely you understand where Oglemi's coming from? The stigma can and will be eroded away. Clearly not today, but eventually. Also see popemobile's link. Being "porn related" is only one facet of a given person's life, it probably didn't even hurt anybody, and she could have been anything from a saint to a serial killer regardless of that one facet.

Why is it assumed that to be in the porn industry, she had to be down on her luck, and needed cash? While Jrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr failed miserably in trying to display the hypocrisy of those in this thread, he was not wrong in that there is hypocrisy.

Again, I get this sentiment, but considering where the thread had gone, it's understandable that some of us would feel that the need to compromise on a point and go on the assumption that porn is not a desirable business, just so we don't have to keep going back and forth about the pros and cons of porn, the difference between porn and the porn industry, etc. I'm not sure how relevant that would have been to the discussion.

I know it isn't right for some people to dismiss your opinion just because they disagree with you,

To be clear, I'm not refusing to respond to jrrrrrrr because of his opinion. Most of his opinion has more or less been said by other people, in a manner that's overall more respectful of the issue. I disagree with the general thread of that opinion, but I respect it. No, I'm refusing to respond to jrrrrrrr because of his attitude, one he's pretty well-known for. I'd do the same even if I did agree with him (or at least didn't disagree), which I basically do on the subject of suspect test results. He has a history of this. In this thread alone, he has blatantly made shit up about Ms. Halas, defined her based on that one single thing we're talking about, and repeatedly and blatantly misinterpreted and misread what people who disagree with him have said. He keeps making claims that his opposition allegedly made... when a cursory reading of the thread would show that none of that has been said. All he's interested in is straw men, and I'm not going to waste time arguing with that. I do not even have to make an additional point about him being a "bad person" to look at this pragmatically and see that any further discussion with him is not going to go anywhere. Neither would I have to pull that card when discussing people like Bernie Madoff, Adolf Hitler, Westboro Baptist Church, etc.

Unfortunately I'm not entirely ignoring jrrrrrrr so I'm facepalming at how poor his reading comprehension is, but hopefully that will pass, too.

 

[Eggbert]

Well, if this is just about the stigma, surely you understand where Oglemi's coming from? The stigma can and will be eroded away. Clearly not today, but eventually. Also see popemobile's link. Being "porn related" is only one facet of a given person's life, it probably didn't even hurt anybody, and she could have been anything from a saint to a serial killer regardless of that one facet.

Except that this stigma exists for a good reason. There's a documentary about the whole porn industry called 60 days in porn or something, it's stupid, but basically most of the actresses go into porn not only because of money (there are other ways to get needed money, like working in a convenience store, porn isn't the inevitable fall of the poor) but because of fame and attention, and they almost always burn out at around 40 and meet and meat the sleaziest people. It ruins their lives in the long run, it's disgraceful, and it should be viewed as such because that's what it is.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Wait, why the fuck are people even saying porn is deplorable as a profession? I don't know what I'd do without porn. There is nothing you guys can say that can convince me that porn is not an important value-creating industry of the economy.