Team 'Punch Out!' OU RMT

Hello. It's been a little while since I posted a RMT here, because I've been in a rut when it came to OU, and playing NU primarily.

Team after team failed for me. I hate using the same old, same old that everyone else uses (Looks at Scizor, Gyarados, Heatran, ect), but I also do not like gimmicks.

Then, while using Machamp to counter Collosoil in CAP, a team idea sprung to me, if Machamp can cause this much havok without support, what can it do with support, geared towards ensuring it cannot be stopped?

And hence, the roots of this team were formed.

Enough of that, let's get to what you want to see.

Team Punch Out

As you can see, the team is balanced, nothing like all those Heavy Offense teams you see all over the place all of a sudden. No pokemon on this team is even in the top 10 in useage, except for Jirachi. Which means, most of them are underprepared for...

The Multi-Tasking Lead

Celebi @ Occa Berry
Modest Nature
76 HP, 180 Speed, 252 Sp.Attack

Stealth Rock
Leaf Storm
Earth Power

Occa Berry Lead Celebi... such a nice little pokemon. Celebi is not your everyday suicidal Azelf/Metagross. Celebi does not always set up rocks from the word go. Celebi does, however, either scout, with U-Turn, blow a hole in the foe's team, with Leaf Storm, or kill ANY Heatran, with Occa Berry + Earth Power. (They fail to OHKO, anything but Resist Berry is OHKO'ed, and Resist Berry Versions are outsped)

Celebi may not have Recover on it's set, but Jirachi helps to keep it healthy, to blow another Leaf Storm into the foe, and defend against water and ground types. In the mid/late game, Celebi may be dead, but it's usually done it's job, and scored a KO, gotten up rocks, or helped scout in some way.

The Battering Ram

Empoleon @ Choice Specs
252 HP, 4 Defence, 252 Sp.Attack
Modest Nature

Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Grass Knot
HP Electric

528 Sp.Attack, Perfect Coverage, Perfect Synergy with Celebi. The ability to blast 25% off even Blissey with a non-Torrent Hydro Pump. Secs Empoleon is used as a Battering Ram to break down any physical walls that may stand in Machamp's way.

Speed? Bah, Jirachi and Zapdos help to cure that issue. Instead, this beast invests in bulk.

It also serves an unexpected purpose. It lures Superpowers. Usually, this would be a bad thing, but the attack drop is a godsend for Machamp.

Our Favorite Little Flincher, and My Glue

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Impish Nature
240 HP, 160 Def, 32 Speed, 76 Sp.Def

Body Slam
Iron Head

Why is this thing not used more?! The support this little metal pixie gives is incredible. Not only is it bulky enough to come in on almost anything that isn't Super Effective, and proceed to tank it by abusing Paraflinch and Wish in tandem, but it scouts, has near-perfect synergy with Zapdos, and Flygon finishes the Triangle.

Jirachi fills so many roles, it's not even funny. It keeps my team healthy, allowing Machamp two attempts to sweep, once to kill something, the second, an actual sweep, once the responce is down. It scouts with U-Turn, it tanks so many things. It Paralyses stuff, it takes things down. It causes Ragequits. (Not really)

This little metal pixie is here to stay, set, EV's and all. There is but one thing I am considering, dropping a little in defence to allow me to outspeed Mamoswine, who is actually trouble for this team.

Revenge Killer

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP

Dragon Claw
Stone Edge

Why not Scizor? I hear you cry. Well, firstly, without Flygon, I'd be VERY weak to Fire-type attacks, with 0 resists, and 2 (1.5, with Occa Celebi) weaknesses. Flygon brings a quick end to Heatran, no puns intended. Flygon also acts as a scout, DDMance Killer, DDGyara Killer, and lure for Latias to drop it's Draco Meteor.

Flygon causes so many switches, often, between it, Zapdos, and Jirachi, I can find out most of the foe's team, while still being 6 pokemon/6, and having only revealed those three... and Celebi.

Dragon Claw > Outrage. What sort of self-respecting Scarfer wants to lock itself in?

Finally, Flygon serves as a Trick Counter, as Trick can mess up Zapdos, Jirachi, and Machamp, while Empoleon dosen't want to lose it's Specs either.

The Status Nuke

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
248 HP, 228 Defence, 32 Speed

Heat Wave

My own custom take on the Physically Defensive Zapdos. 'Triple status BulkyDos'. Nothing walks out from a fight with this Zapdos without status, unless it lucked out. Zapdos has incredible synergy with Jirachi, if only it resisted Fire, but that's what Flygon is for. Due to Zapdos and Jirachi walling... near everything, Stealth Rock is not much of an issue, because between Wish and Roost, as well as Status, Zapdos ends up at near full HP more often than not. Again, most people resort to using stat-drop nukes, such as Draco Meteor, to bring this thing down. Which is good for Machamp. It also lures Rock-type attacks, again, good for Machamp.

This Zapdos cripples stall. Blissey can't wall it, without Toxic of it's own, or Aromatherapy, it actually loses, in a last-poke situation. Rotom falls to this Zapdos, as Toxic kills it. Steels are roasted by a nice Heat Wave.

The Knockout Blow

Machamp @ Leftovers
No Guard
Adamant Nature
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Defence

Bulk Up

My final, and main, pokemon, is not a standard set. My final pokemon, is one of the most annoying in it's own right, due to DynamicPunch. Combine with Paralysis, and you get Parafusion. Combine with Sub, and you get something night imposible to hit. Combine with Bulk Up, and you get sheer abuse.

Due to the aformentioned Parafusion, Machamp can Bulk Up so even the strongest physical blows will not destroy his Sub. The common special attackers are all OHKO'ed by a +1 Payback or Dynamicpunch. If this thing sets up, my foes don't know what hit them. Hardly anything stops this Machamp when it's rolling, and it often comes down to having to sacrifice something like Latias to break the sub, only for Machamp to KO it, and switch out for later.

Skarmory can't beat this Machamp without severe luck. Skarmory often tries to wall Jirachi, to get Paralysed. When Machamp comes in, DynamicPunch deals about 40%, unboosted, and causes Parafusion. So the most common Phazer, I handle.

I mentioned a few times before, the stat-dropping nuke attacks are good for Machamp. The stat-dropping nukes mean that Machamp can set up on so much more. Draco Meteor, Leaf Storm and Superpower are perfect examples, although somethings like Infernape get out of there after a Close Combat as well.

Machamp may not be the MVP, because it actually dosen't do much, except kill things at the end, Jirachi or Zapdos get that award, but Machamp is fearsome, and has left many of my foes on the ground, Lights Out, wondering what on earth hit them.

Threat List: (Taken from Grind Panthera's Thread, and by extension, Jabba's)

Defensive Threats:

Blissey - Machamp set-up fodder.
Bronzong - No real issue, Zapdos beats it, and forces it to explode, or Jirachi, usually. Machamp can also set-up.

Celebi - Machamp can come in on defensive varients with little worry, and Sub. I usually ensure Paralysis first, to allow me to Sub before it tries to status me.
Cresselia - Kinda gets destroyed by most of my team, it's not given a chance to heal, and it's not given a chance to support much.

Forretress - Empoleon

Gliscor - Can be an issue. Celebi is my usual responce. Jirachi can take an EQ, then Paralyse, for Empoleon to take down, using Flygon as transition.

Gyarados - Zapdos

Hippowdon - Empoleon and Celebi

Jirachi - My own Jirachi beats most others, because it can heal itself, and wins in attrittion. Empoleon beats it too.
Rotom-A - Zapdos is my usual counter. Machamp works too, and Flygon can finish weakened ones.

Skarmory - Zapdos, Empoleon, Machamp can handle it as well. Spikes are an annoyance, but, bareable with Wish.

Snorlax - Machamp says HI

Suicune - I have to stop it quite quickly, but all Suicunes need that. Machamp can deal a heavy blow, if it's Paralysed. Zapdos can put a timer on non-Corcune versions.

Swampert - Celebi, Empoleon

Tyranitar - Empoleon, Celebi, Flygon, Machamp, Jirachi. T-Tar is no issue at all.

Vaporeon - A pain as per usual, but Toxic stops it.

Zapdos - My own Zapdos beats most others, due to packing Toxic.

Offensive Threats:

Azelf - Celebi U-Turns out to Flygon, who U-turns to Jirachi, to take the Explosion.

Breloom - DIE. A massive pain. My best best is to hit it hard, hit it fast, and hopefully Paralyse it on the way in. Make it never get the chance to move.

Gengar - Jirachi handles most of these, Zapdos dosen't mind much either.

Gyarados - Zapdos

Heatran - Flygon, Celebi, Machamp

Infernape - Zapdos handles any Infernape without HP Ice, and even then, still handles them well.

Jolteon - Annoying, because it switches from anything it dosen't like. Best bet is to take out the rest of the team, that way, Zapdos/Flygon can take it out. Once had a LOL Stallfest between a Sub Jolteon, and my Machamp... never again... do I want... to go through 2 sweepers STALLING each other X_X.

Latias - Dosen't like anything, because it's either hit hard, or takes status. Machamp loves it's Meteors, if Jirachi takes the impact.

Kingdra - Not seen one, as I have yet to face a Rain Team, but Emploleon is a good wall to it, and can beat it with Ice Beam/HP Electric

Lucario - Zapdos, Jirachi can handle it to some degree, as can Flygon. Don't give it a chance to come in, considering these three are usually the ones out.

Machamp - Hi Cousin XD. Jokes aside, Machamp is a pain, like Breloom, but, it dosen't really get the chance to come in safe, and what sane Machamp would come in on Zapdos, Flygon, or Jirachi?

Magnezone - Annoying, because it kills Jirachi. Other than that, and Emploeon, it's no issue
Mamoswine - DIE! I once made a major misplay against it, underestimateing Celebi's bulk, and it cost half my team. Celebi is actually my best counter. Zapdos wins if rocks are not down.

Metagross - No threat at all. Zapdos walls it all day and night.

Salamence - Again, no real issue, due to Flygon.

Scizor - Not real issue, due to Zapdos being the #1 Scizor counter.

Starmie - Annoying, but dosen't come in safely. Zapdos beats/cripples it, as does Jirachi.

Tyranitar - See Defensive T-Tar.

Zapdos - See Defensive Zapdos.

Nice team man, looks very well planned, and pretty annoying to face with offensive teams since you seem to cut momentum pretty well, also props on using not-so-seen pokes!

That said, your team is insanely weak against stall. Stall can sit on his ass all day and wall all of your team, Zapdos wont beat Blissey without Substitute and at least SR + Spikes. Empoleon cant beat Blissey as well, Machamp cant beat a Gyarados, specially thanks to intimidate, Jirachi and Flygon are both good vs Offensive teams but in this case suck totally vs stall, and your celebi lead doesnt do anything as well. We can do some tweaks on the team too to make it work better as a whole, aliviate this Stall weakness, and keep your purpose, while adding new ones, which means in case one fails, you dont get stuck with your paralizers and a scarf pokemon, but you have another thing to do that gives you better chances of winning the battle.

First change, change your Celebi lead. Celebi looks good on paper, and it is, but its not really worth the spot in this team. You get SR and a way to beat some leads, but thats it. Doesnt help you against stall, doesnt get you any momentum, and SR is learned by many pokes, which means you dont really need to use a SR lead. On its place I suggest a Roserade lead with the set 252 Speed/252 SpAtk/4 Def, Timid nature and Leaf Storm, Toxic Spikes, Sleep Powder, HP Ice/Ground/Fire.
Reasoning of this is that Roserade is a tremendously good lead that will aid you a lot vs Stall. If there is something stall hates, is 2 layers of toxic spikes up, and what it hates even more, is not being able to spin them out. Not only that, but its also a good offensive lead because it can OHKO Azelf, sleep many other leads, and hit pokes that switch in with the filler move, in this case a hidden power. I recommend HP Ice, since you will sleep Heatran anyways, and this lets you OHKO taunt Gliscor leads, and Mences that try to set-up on you as well. HP Fire is for Metagross and Scizor leads, and Ground is for Metagross and Heatran. Oh I forgot, Toxic Spikes not only aids you vs stall, but offensive grounded pokes like Tyranitar, Infernape, Machamp, etc. hate them, AND your Empoleon loves to have those to beat bulky waters.

Now here comes another little change. Empoleon isnt that good of a Specs pokemon, since, even when it gets perfect coverage, it loses too easily to waters, and you become insanely bad set-up fodder which means DD mence, DD Gyara and such will set-up on you, and possibly finish you if Flygon loses a Speed tie. Not only that but if you switch in Flygon on a Waterfall from LO Gyara your scarfer is pretty much done with. Now if you have Toxic Spikes, whats a better way to abuse them than using one of the scariest late game sweepers, Sub Petaya Empoleon.
Although Empoleon isnt really that good alone vs stall, its another good pokemon to have vs Offensive teams, in the same route as Specs Empoleon, but Sub Petaya gets the power, the boost of Torrent, the speed, and the bulk it needs to do a good sweep, and with Toxic Spikes you elevate this X 10 since now Bulky Waters will be weakened. With Sub Petaya Empoleon, your team also gets another purpose other than paralize and sweep with Machamp, which can fail often. You have a new purpose of letting Empoleon sweep after his counters are down, and this will prove very important late-game for you. The set if you are interested is:

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Modest
EVs: 12 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Agility
- Substitute

I assume you know how this is played, bring it in one of the types Empoleon resists, which are a lot, and set-up in late-game. Grass Knot isnt really needed since you cover water types well, and ice beam is more useful for like Mences and Celebis. Surf OHKOs Jirachis, Swamperts, Machamps, and a whole lot bunch of pokes as well.

Now, having Toxic Spikes requires you to keep them up as much as you can in the game, which means having something to block Spinning attempts. Zapdos is a good pokemon, but I can see a Rotom-A doing its job quite well, but better. Not only that, but with Toxic Spikes up, not only Rotom becomes an excellent counter for the things you want to counter with Zapdos, but becomes basically the perfect stall breaker with the sub charge set. Not only Blissey will struggle to wall you, but you set-up on her face and then proceed to KO everything in a stall team with ease. You also get a rapid spinner, a good Lucario counter, and a stall breaker.

Rotom-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 128 HP / 168 SpA / 212 Spe
- Charge Beam
- Shadow Ball
- HP Fighting
- Substitute

Substitute lets you set-up on things like Celebi, Bronzong and even Blissey thanks to the Toxic Spikes. HP Fighting hits Blissey hard when you get to +6, which is not hard vs stall, Charge Beam is your way to set-up, hits Skarmory pretty hard, and same goes for Gyarados. Shadow Ball is your main STAB attack to beat things like other Rotoms and Bronzongs. You also outspeed Adamant Lucario, which means you can come in and threaten instantly with HP Fighting. This set also has great synergy with your team, since if there are paralysis, you now have 3 Substitute abusers, meaning it will be hard to beat such bulky pokemons while being slower and having 25% chance to not hit them.

Skipping themes, you said you hate Outrage on Flygon, but man its pretty much a must. You miss many KOs without Outrage, and the main thing of a Scarfer is to revenge kill as best as possible, something you arent getting with Dragon Claw. You dont even OHKO a Latias with Dragon Claw, you dont OHKO Salamence either, same applies for Kingdra. Outrage is a must on Scarf Flygon. Everything else seems fine though so feel free to keep your other 3 moves.

Since you lost Stealth Rock by removing Celebi as your lead and won Toxic Spikes, theres a place I can see Stealth Rock working nicely. Slow Jirachi doesnt really use U-turn as much as you may think, so instead of U-Turn, having Stealth Rock can prove really benefical since you now have 2 type of layers to abuse. Your spread seems kind of weird but if that works to you then feel free to use it.

Last but not least, your Machamp looks good, but maybe using Stone Edge over Bulk Up can help you, since you now hit Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos, and company very hard, which is something all Machamp like to do.


Lead Roserade over lead Celebi for Toxic Spikes support and inssurance against Stall.
Sub Petaya Empoleon over Specs Empoleon.
Sub Boosting Rotom-A over Zapdos.
Outrage over Dragon Claw in Flygon.
Stealth Rock over U-Turn on Support Jirachi.
Stone Edge over Bulk Up in Machamp.

Well thats pretty much it, these are suggestions so feel free to test them and tweak as much as you want, and good luck with your team!
That seems to be completely regearing the strategy of the team. You also seem to not understand what he's doing with various pokemon; he's using Machamp as his setup sweeper, and thus his team is geared around supporting it.

Anyway, OP, I think your team looks pretty good, but I don't really understand the Celebi lead. I think something like Gliscor is potentially better, running Taunt (one of the best lead moves ever), SR, Earthquake and U-Turn. You get most of the same benefits as Celebi, but with the added bonus of Taunt.

Outrage is not necessarily a bad choice on Flygon, but I've always found the mixed set is an even better Scarfer; run Draco Meteor instead (and Fire Blast over Stone Edge).

Finally, Specs Empoleon seems a little strange, and I would have thought there are better bulky Specsers available, although off the top of my head, I can't think of any. Maybe Rotom-A.
Oh alright, so lets leave the team as it is right now, which has 1 thing to do in the battle (and a bad one because a machamp sweep is the most unreliable thing ever) and lets leave him Stall weak as well. Surely, all of this is completely right, because we are not altering the main team's purpose right? Let him lose half of his battles!

I did not completely alter his main purpose which was a Machamp sweep, but I added another purposes, since seriously how does Celebi lead and Specs Empoleon help Machamp sweep? With Toxic Spikes he has now other things to do besides letting machamp "sweep", and now is also not stall weak.
I have College soon, but I will be testing Rey's Ideas, especially the Roserade lead and SR Jirachi. U-Turn is helpful, because of Body Slam Paralysing everything, but, with a T-Spikes lead, I can see where you are coming from. A Sleeping Pokemon is also set-up bait for Machamp.

I would have to agree, Empoleon was my weakest link in the team, despite being able to tank a few hits, it often just ran into a Special Wall, or something that predicted the attack, and could take it (Latias and Hydro Pump comes to mind). SubPeteya with 3 Attacks seems good, with Body Slam abuse, and would end up with the same power in the end, with a Torrent Boost behind it. Wish could also repair a broken attempt at sweeping, like Machamp.

With Toxic Spikes, ToxicDos is not so much of a need, despite many pokemon being immune, most of them, I'd rather Paralyse or Burn. That's the downside of Toxic Spikes, some things, I'd rather have burnt/Paralysed, and a fair chunk of OU is immune to them.

Speaking of, the Rotom set loses the self-recovery that Zapdos loves, and the ability to cause Paralysis to Ghosts (Albeit, Shadow Ball makes the point moot) I will test it, but Zapdos I find is a cornerstone in my team, even if Rotom covers the same weaknesses.

For this reason, and the amount of switches my team causes, I might test out Spikes Roserade, as a couple of layers, as well as the high pressure playstyle of my bulky pokemon such as Jirachi and Zapdos/Rotom-H, would force a lot of switches, and wear down things such as Blissey with ease. The large number of switches also means that T-Spikes damage dosen't get much of a chance to stack, 1 layer would actually end up being better in most situations, because 12% damage beats 6%, and Toxic is only superior after 3 turns.

Machamp's set will not change, neither will Flygon's. Machamp has no issue against Skarmory, provided Jirachi has paralysed it, because Dynamicpunch deals about 40%, and 80% on a Roosting Skarm, while Skarm will end up with a very low chance of attacking, giving it the option to Roost, or WhirlWind, and be in low HP for the next switch-in. Flygon can't afford to be locked in, because otherwise, Fire Types like Infernape will obliterate this team. Outrage is a major no, especially when I find myself having no issues with Gyarados and Mance, because SR is usually up, or I delt prior damage. Most DDMance are Adamant too.

Testing will begin once I'm back from Collage. Thanks Rey.

EDIT: Upon further consideration, I would think about testing our Rock Slide over Bulk Up. Against Paralysed foes, and behind a sub, the 30% Flinch rate is far superior to the increase in power, especially when combined with Confusion from Dynamicpunch.

EDIT2: Found out Spikes+Sleep Powder is an Illegal Moveset, meaning I can't really test that out. I will be testing TSpikes Roserade.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)