The Beginners Guide to RBY

Jackal

I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#1
The Beginners Guide To Red/Blue/Yellow

Well now, you have been playing pokemon for a while and start to get bored with Advanced play, and want a change. You want to try RBY, but have no idea where to start. This is for you.

The RBY metagame is very concrete and standardized, as it is the oldest, and anything new you can possibly try has been done. With this being said, there are certain pokemon and tactics that are known to be more effective than others. These are things you MUST learn.

Let us begin with the beginning of every trainer’s path to greatness, the teambuilding process. Now thankfully, this process is MUCH less complicated and quicker than constructing a team in Advanced mode, for several reasons. While there ARE EV’s, they are all maxed on Netbattle and need not be set. Secondly, there are no traits, gender, nature, hidden power or items in RBY. This means all you essentially have to do is select six pokemon, give them a moveset and you are ready for battle. The only other possible things to change are level and DV’s, but these should, for the most part, remain maxed in competitive play.

Team Building

Alright, what pokemon should I use? Well, as I previously mentioned, there are certain pokemon that play a dominant role in the metagame, and should be your first options when building a team. Here are the 15 pokemon that play a leading role in the RBY metagame.

Exeggutor
~Psychic
~Explosion
~Sleep Powder
~Stun Spore/Mega Drain

Definitely a SOLID pokemon, good for a sleep, tossing around paralysis AND taking something down with it with Explosion. This pokemon is a MAJOR threat and is on most teams.

Starmie
~Blizzard
~Thunderbolt
~Recover
~Thunder Wave/Surf

A pokemon who can easily sweep a team when it has been damaged. A strong special and speed stat allow it to sweep teams with a wide array of special based moves.

Tauros
~Body Slam
~Earthquake
~Hyper Beam
~Blizzard

A nightmare for many a team, a very strong physical pokemon who is known for being the bane of many teams. Its STAB Body Slam can paralyze and this pokemon is known to critical hit a LOT.

Chansey
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt
~Thunder Wave/Counter/Sing
~Softboiled

A very defensive oriented pokemon, who shrugs of special hits and takes abuse. The only TRUE counter to Starmie.

Alakazam
~Psychic
~Recover
~Thunder Wave
~Seismis Toss/Reflect

A very fast Psychic type with a crazy special stat. Its Psychic hurts, and does a good job paralyzing the opposition.

Snorlax
~Body Slam
~Hyper Beam
~Self Destruct
~Earthquake/Surf

A very common normal type, with the strongest single attack in the game, STABed Self Destruct. Nothing can flat out counter it, and is a threat to any team.

Golem
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide
~Body Slam
~Explosion

A solid Rock type, which is important as it provides a resistance to normal. Stops electrics COLD in their tracks.

Dragonite
~Wrap
~Agility
~Thunder Wave
~Body Slam/Hyper Beam

A much hated pokemon, mainly because of his ability to paralyze you then proceed to wrap you. He can slowly devastate a team.

Lapras
~Sing
~Blizzard
~Thunderbolt
~Body Slam

A bulkier water, but not nearly as common as Starmie or Slowbro. Can put pokemon to sleep as well.

Rhydon
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide
~Body Slam
~Substitute

The other common Rock/Ground pokemon, its Earthquake is powerful, and Substitute is useful when you predict a swith. Although be warned it will NOT block status moves.

Persian
~Slash
~Hyper Beam
~Bubblebeam
~Thunderbolt/Mimic

Persian is a weaker Tauros that does have some advantages over it. It is faster, and has a huge critical hit rate when using slash.

Gengar
~Hypnosis
~Explsion
~Confuse Ray
~Psychic/Thunderbolt

A very common lead, it puts something to sleep, confuses the switch in and can explode on a threat to the team. Also is immune to normal and fighting, a very big plus.

Jynx
~Lovely Kiss
~Psychic
~Blizzard
~Mimic

Another common lead, and has a very accurate sleep move, higher than hypnosis or sing. Is decently fast and packs a strong punch. It is too easily walled by Starmie, however, mimic fixes that if thunderbolt is obtained :)

Zapdos
~Thunderbolt
~Thunder Wave
~Drill Peck
~Light Screen

A strong pokemon, but as with all electrics in this generation, it is walled by ground types, especially ground/rock which resists drill peck too. Once the ground is disposed of, this pokemon can cause major damage.

Slowbro
~Amnesia
~Surf
~Rest
~Thunder Wave

Some say he is overrated, but he is still strong and hard to take down. It usually takes a critical hit to take it down once it Amnesia’s up. It is commonly referred to as “Tobybro”, after its creator.

Those 15 pokemon are the most commonly used and are what you must look to have counters for defensively. A team does NOT have to be comprised of six of these fifteen, but they commonly are, and will continue to be whether you like it or not J

**Take note that the movesets I have listed are merely the most common, there are many other variations; check the Smogondex for more details.

Now, I cannot tell you which six pokemon to pick, but here are things all good teams include.

· Two pokemon with a sleep inducing move
· A paralysis move on at least 3-4 pokemon
· A good balance of types and attacks
· A few fast pokemon capable of sweeping
· A fast lead, Sleepers are best

Some other important things to have are:

· A ground pokemon to take electrics
· A normal resist
· A pokemon to take Special based hits
· Lots of pokemon resistant to Psychic

Competitive Battling

Once you have fully made a team and have constructed it intelligently, it is time to battle! Here are some important techniques to apply to battle.

You Snooze, You Lose

A very important part of RBY is putting a pokemon to sleep. This should be priority #1 in most cases. This is because sleeping a pokemon essentially disables them for the remainder of the match, as you do not attack the turn you wake up, and by staying in they will often get killed.

A Paralyzed team is a Beaten team

The next step is disabling the opponents team through paralysis to set up your sweeper. It is essential to keep your main sweeper from getting paralyzed, especially someone like Tauros or Starmie, as without speed their sweeping potential goes downhill. Paralyzing your opponents sweeper is a very good sign. Chansey is possibly the only pokemon you do NOT want paralyzed, as it wants to be paralyzed. This is because then it cannot be put to sleep or worse frozen. Chansey is often sent in on a predicted Thunder Wave, and is great at absorbing paralysis once paralyzed.

**An important thing to keep in mind is that sleep should come before paralysis, as once you paralyze one pokemon, it is an easy switch in to sleep moves, and it will be extremely difficult to put a different pokemon to sleep as they can always predict you. It is important to narrow down the opponents resources.

Plan Your Attack

Always take note of your opponents team, whether it be mentally, or if your like me and forget, write it down. Once you know all your opponents resources you can plan your path to victory. It is always a good idea to not reveal your whole team, as you can toss out a surprise Tauros when your opponent least expects is and have it sweep. If you see that your opponent has a damaged starmie, paralyzed alakazam and a damaged golem, work on getting the starmie paralyzed so your tauros that you have been reserving can have a n easy sweep. It is this kind of planning that will win games.

Be Unpredictable

This is so essential if you want to be successful. People complain RBY is all luck, but there are lots of mind games to be played. If you have Starmie out on a Rhydon, Surf or Blizzard are the obvious choices, but if you think your opponent will bring in their Starmie to take the hit, use Thunderbolt, it just might pay off. This also applies to pokemon switches. If you think they will switch to Starmie, bring in your Chansey. This gives you the upper hand as they now must switch out or take damage/be paralyzed. These are important skills that are more gut feelings than anything. It is important to try and think like your opponent, and can often lead to some advantageous situations.

Accept Luck

RBY is known to be heavily influenced by luck, as critical hit rates are higher and a pokemon that is frozen does not thaw for the rest of the match. It is important to realize that luck is a two edged sword and can strike at any time. If your Chansey gets frozen, move on. Keep focus and always stick to your plan, even if the luck makes you revise it. Don’t give up, because when all looks lost, your opponent might miss that Hyper Beam, allowing you to get the comeback win.

Those are the five key elements to success in RBY battling. Master them and you WILL be successful.

General Info

Here are some general things to know about RBY that will make you better.

Standard RBY Battling Rules

~No Mewtwo or Mew
~No Tradebacks from GSC
~Sleep Clause and OHKO Clause enabled
~Evasion and OHKO moves are frowned upon
~No two pokemon of the same species
~Freeze Clause and PP ups is optional

Critical Hits:

Full Credit to Justin8649 for the information:

The Critical Hit Ratio is figured out by dividing the pokemon's base speed divided by 2 divided by 256.
[Base Speed / 2 / 256]

For example, Venusaurs base speed is 80, so (80/2)/256 = .15625 Therefore Venusaur has a 15.625% chance to get a CH for whichever move it uses.

Some moves have high Critical Hit ratios.
They are:
Karate Chop, Slash, Razor Leaf, and Crabhammer
For these moves the formula is Base Speed times 4 divided by 256.
[Base Speed * 4 / 256]

So if Venusaur used Razor Leaf we would use: 80(4)/256 which would be 1.25 which is 125%. Therefore it would always Critical Hit. But apparently there is some sort of cap, to prevent the numbers from going over 100% because that wouldn’t make sense. So the cap is 255, because they used 0-255 instead of 1-256 and then divided everything by 256. So the highest CH rate you can get is 255/256 so you can still not CH .4% of the time with Persian and Venusaur!

RBY Tiers List

Credit to Hipmonlee for this list:

Tier 1: Banned
Mewtwo
Mew

Tier 2: Mainstays For All Teams
Tauros
Snorlax
Chansey
Exeggutor
Starmie
Alakazam

Tier 3: Other Standards
Golem
Slowbro
Jynx
Lapras
Zapdos
Rhydon
Gengar
Persian

Tier 4: Borderline Standard
Venusaur
Sandslash
Clefable
Dodrio
Jolteon
Hypno
Articuno
Dragonite
Victreebel
Kangaskhan
Raichu
Cloyster

Tier 4a: Pokemon that suck in standard but are too good for uu..
Gyarados
Mr. Mime
Moltres

Tier 5: UU Pokemon. But practical in standard battles.
Charizard
Raticate
Nidoking
Ninetales
Wigglytuff
Venomoth
Dugtrio
Golduck
Tentacruel
Tangela
Pinsir
Kingler
Electrode
Nidoqueen
Machamp
Weezing
Muk
Kabutops
Arcanine

Tier 6: Pokemon mostly unuseable in standard, but good in UU.
Blastoise
Parasect
Primeape
Poliwrath
Rapidash
Magneton
Scyther
Omastar
Hitmonlee
Lickitung
Flareon
Electabuzz
Magmar
Butterfree
Arbok
Vileplume
Dewgong
Marowak
Porygon
Aerodactyl
Vaporeon

Tier 7: Pokemon that just suck.
Pidgeot
Hitmonchan
Fearow
Onix
Ditto
Seaking
Seadra
Farfetch’d
Golbat
Beedrill

The Agility Glitch

This is one of the more useful glitches in RBY. Once a pokemon is paralyzed, it speed is reduced. However, if Agility is used afterwards it nulls the speed loss, and you will have double your original speed. You still have the chance to be fully paralyzed, however.

Important Changes

Some things work differently in RBY. Here are the most important:

Special Stat: The Special Attack and Defense of a pokemon are combined into one stat, called “Special”. This makes moves like Amnesia really good as they raise both Special Attack and Special Defense.

Sleep: Pokemon do not attack the turn they wake up. Thankfully this was changed in the later versions, it is very annoying.

99.6%: This is the accuracy of all 100% moves. This can really bite you in the bum sometimes.

OHKO moves: Only work if you are faster. Not dependant on base stats.

Freeze: Pokemon do not thaw. Only a fire move will thaw a frozen pokemon.

Substitute: This move does not block status moves. Also a pokemon does not die if it used explosion on a sub. See Vineons guide for more info.

Hyper Beam: If a pokemon is KO’d with this move, there is NO recharge time.

Counter: Only counters NORMAL and FIGHTING moves.

Light Screen and Reflect: Only work on the pokemon that used it.

Blizzard: 90% accuracy makes it a formidable move.

**For a complete and detailed list, see Vineon’s RBY changes guide.

Secondary Strategy: Wrap/Fire Spin

Other than a standard team, these teams are the other type of commonly used team in tournaments. They focus on trapping moves, as they work different in RBY. Moves such as Wrap, Clamp and Fire Spin trap the opponent for 2-5 turns, making them unable to attack. They can still switch, but you will just end up switching into another Wrap, Clamp or Fire Spin. You have to hope it misses. The strategy behind these teams is to paralyze everything and to abuse these moves, as if you miss you will be faster and can just trap them again next turn. If you are facing a team like this, you need to be very careful and avoid paralysis at all costs. These teams can work very well in the right hands.

Here are some common pokemon that use this technique, other than the aforementioned Dragonite:

Cloyster
~Clamp
~Blizzard
~Explosion
~Surf

Clamp is the strongest of the trappers, but only Cloyster learns it. Clamp until weak and use either Blizzard or Surf as a finisher.

Moltres
~Fire Spin
~Agility
~Fire Blast
~Hyper Beam

This can work even if the opponents team is NOT all paralyzed, so watch out. After an Agility it outspeeds everything. And can Fire Spin appropriately. Once again KO with the appropriate finisher

Victreebel
~Sleep Powder
~Swords Dance
~Wrap
~Hyper Beam

This can get painful. Sleep Powder will force them to switch as you Swords Dance. This makes Wrap really pack a punch.

As you can see these teams are not to be underestimated and can really cause problems.


This concludes my guide. All the knowledge of how to become a great RBY battler is right here. Hopefully this will bring many new battlers to this great genre. A BIG thanks to Vineon, Justin, Hipmonlee for their previous information I was able to compile as well as to the RBY greats for making this such a competitive genre of pokemon J I hope you all will enjoy RBY as much as I do!

-Jackal

(If I forgot anything PLEASE post and let me know)
 

Jackal

I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#4
ty guys :) And it will be uploaded to the rby section of the site in do time...the rby forum is more for rmt and stuff i think.
 
#6
One thing i'd like to remind article authors is that they don't have to be redundant - the dex pages will have more sets and explanation than you can include in your article. Just link to them.

Same goes for RBY changes, we can link to that page.
 

Roy

streetpkmn
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#8
Jackal said:
The Beginners Guide To Red/Blue/Yellow

Well now, you have been playing pokemon for a while and start to get bored with Advanced play, and want a change. You want to try RBY, but have no idea where to start. This is for you.

The RBY metagame is very concrete and standardized, as it is the oldest, and anything new you can possibly try has been done. With this being said, there are certain pokemon and tactics that are known to be more effective than others. These are things you MUST learn.

Let us begin with the beginning of every trainer’s path to greatness, the teambuilding process. Now thankfully, this process is MUCH less complicated and quicker than constructing a team in Advanced mode, for several reasons. While there ARE EV’s, they are all maxed on Netbattle and need not be set. Secondly, there are no traits, gender, nature, hidden power or items in RBY. This means all you essentially have to do is select six pokemon, give them a moveset and you are ready for battle. The only other possible things to change are level and DV’s, but these should, for the most part, remain maxed in competitive play.

Team Building

Alright, what pokemon should I use? Well, as I previously mentioned, there are certain pokemon that play a dominant role in the metagame, and should be your first options when building a team. Here are the 15 pokemon that play a leading role in the RBY metagame.

Exeggutor
~Psychic
~Explosion
~Sleep Powder
~Stun Spore/Mega Drain

Definitely a SOLID pokemon, good for a sleep, tossing around paralysis AND taking something down with it with Explosion. This pokemon is a MAJOR threat and is on most teams.

I would stick Double-Edge as an option over Stun Spore

Starmie
~Blizzard
~Thunderbolt
~Recover
~Thunder Wave/Surf

A pokemon who can easily sweep a team when it has been damaged. A strong special and speed stat allow it to sweep teams with a wide array of special based moves.

298 isn't really that stong of a special stat

Tauros
~Body Slam
~Earthquake
~Hyper Beam
~Blizzard

A nightmare for many a team, a very strong physical pokemon who is known for being the bane of many teams. Its STAB Body Slam can paralyze and this pokemon is known to critical hit a LOT.

Mimic as an option over Blizzard

Chansey
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt
~Thunder Wave/Counter/Sing
~Softboiled

A very defensive oriented pokemon, who shrugs of special hits and takes abuse. The only TRUE counter to Starmie.

Reflect?

Alakazam
~Psychic
~Recover
~Thunder Wave
~Seismis Toss/Reflect

A very fast Psychic type with a crazy special stat. Its Psychic hurts, and does a good job paralyzing the opposition.

Snorlax
~Body Slam
~Hyper Beam
~Self Destruct
~Earthquake/Surf

A very common normal type, with the strongest single attack in the game, STABed Self Destruct. Nothing can flat out counter it, and is a threat to any team.

You might want to list Amnesia Lax:
Amnesia
Pick 3: Selfdestruct or Rest/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Hyper Beam or Body Slam


Golem
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide
~Body Slam
~Explosion

A solid Rock type, which is important as it provides a resistance to normal. Stops electrics COLD in their tracks.

Dragonite
~Wrap
~Agility
~Thunder Wave
~Body Slam/Hyper Beam

A much hated pokemon, mainly because of his ability to paralyze you then proceed to wrap you. He can slowly devastate a team.

Very much hated yes

Lapras
~Sing
~Blizzard
~Thunderbolt
~Body Slam

A bulkier water, but not nearly as common as Starmie or Slowbro. Can put pokemon to sleep as well.

You could list Rest but whatever

Rhydon
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide
~Body Slam
~Substitute

The other common Rock/Ground pokemon, its Earthquake is powerful, and Substitute is useful when you predict a swith. <i>Although be warned it will NOT block status moves.</i>

Ty, common misconception newbies

Persian
~Slash
~Hyper Beam
~Bubblebeam
~Thunderbolt/Mimic

Persian is a weaker Tauros that does have some advantages over it. It is faster, and has a huge critical hit rate when using slash.

Body Slam should always be an option on any normal poke

Gengar
~Hypnosis
~Explsion
~Confuse Ray
~Psychic/Thunderbolt

A very common lead, it puts something to sleep, confuses the switch in and can explode on a threat to the team. Also is immune to normal and fighting, a very big plus.

Mega Drain as an option over Psychic/Thunderbolt, though Thunderbolt should be listed first, provided it IS the standard

Jynx
~Lovely Kiss
~Psychic
~Blizzard
~Mimic

Another common lead, and has a very accurate sleep move, higher than hypnosis or sing. Is decently fast and packs a strong punch. It is too easily walled by Starmie, however, mimic fixes that if thunderbolt is obtained :)

It's walled by almost everything :( Body Slam is the standard in the last slot, though I prefer Mimic myself

Zapdos
~Thunderbolt
~Thunder Wave
~Drill Peck
~Light Screen

A strong pokemon, but as with all electrics in this generation, it is walled by ground types, especially ground/rock which resists drill peck too. Once the ground is disposed of, this pokemon can cause major damage.

Agility or even Rest as an option over Light Screen. Might want to mention how Zapdos is a nice counter to those pesky Wrap oriented teams.

Slowbro
~Amnesia
~Surf
~Rest
~Thunder Wave

Some say he is overrated, but he is still strong and hard to take down. It usually takes a critical hit to take it down once it Amnesia’s up. It is commonly referred to as “Tobybro”, after its creator.

Those 15 pokemon are the most commonly used and are what you must look to have counters for defensively. A team does NOT have to be comprised of six of these fifteen, but they commonly are, and will continue to be whether you like it or not J


· Two pokemon with a sleep inducing move
· A paralysis move on at least 3-4 pokemon
· A good balance of types and attacks
· A few fast pokemon capable of sweeping
· A fast lead, Sleepers are best

<b>Actually Eggy is an awesome lead with his 208 speed. So no, leads never need to be fast</b>

Some other important things to have are:

· A ground pokemon to take electrics
Though not necessary
· A normal resist
Which falls under the ground pokemon criteria
· A pokemon to take Special based hits
· Lots of pokemon resistant to Psychic

A Paralyzed team is a Beaten team

The next step is disabling the opponents team through paralysis to set up your sweeper. It is essential to keep your main sweeper from getting paralyzed, especially someone like Tauros or Starmie, as without speed their sweeping potential goes downhill. Paralyzing your opponents sweeper is a very good sign. Chansey is possibly the only pokemon you do NOT want paralyzed, as it wants to be paralyzed. This is because then it cannot be put to sleep or worse frozen. Chansey is often sent in on a predicted Thunder Wave, and is great at absorbing paralysis once paralyzed.

Good point, though paralyzed Reflect Zam is a threat

RBY Tiers List

Credit to Hipmonlee for this list:

Tier 1: Banned
Mewtwo
Mew

Tier 2: Mainstays For All Teams
Tauros
Snorlax
Chansey
Exeggutor
Starmie
Alakazam

Tier 3: Other Standards
Golem
Slowbro
Jynx
Lapras
Zapdos
Rhydon
Gengar
Persian

Tier 4: Borderline Standard
Venusaur
Sandslash
Clefable
Dodrio
Jolteon
Hypno
Articuno
Dragonite
Victreebel
Kangaskhan
Raichu
Cloyster

Tier 4a: Pokemon that suck in standard but are too good for uu..
Gyarados
Mr. Mime
Moltres

I don't get how these pokemon suck in standard but their UU friends are practical in standard.

Tier 5: UU Pokemon. But practical in standard battles.
Charizard
Raticate
Nidoking
Ninetales
Wigglytuff
Venomoth
Dugtrio
Golduck
Tentacruel
Tangela
Pinsir
Kingler
Electrode
Nidoqueen
Machamp
Weezing
Muk
Kabutops
Arcanine

Tier 6: Pokemon mostly unuseable in standard, but good in UU.
Blastoise
Parasect
Primeape
Poliwrath
Rapidash
Magneton
Scyther
Omastar
Hitmonlee
Lickitung
Flareon
Electabuzz
Magmar
Butterfree
Arbok
Vileplume
Dewgong
Marowak
Porygon
Aerodactyl
Vaporeon

Tier 7: Pokemon that just suck.
Pidgeot
Hitmonchan
Fearow
Onix
Ditto
Seaking
Seadra
Farfetch’d
Golbat
Beedrill


Important Changes

Some things work differently in RBY. Here are the most important:

Special Stat: The Special Attack and Defense of a pokemon are combined into one stat, called “Special”. This makes moves like Amnesia really good as they raise both Special Attack and Special Defense.

Sleep: Pokemon do not attack the turn they wake up. Thankfully this was changed in the later versions, it is very annoying.

I agree

99.6%: This is the accuracy of all 100% moves. This can really bite you in the bum sometimes.

OHKO moves: Only work if you are faster. Not dependant on base stats.

Freeze: Pokemon do not thaw. Only a fire move will thaw a frozen pokemon.

Substitute: This move does not block status moves. Also a pokemon does not die if it used explosion on a sub. See Vineons guide for more info.

Hyper Beam: If a pokemon is KO’d with this move, there is NO recharge time.

Counter: Only counters NORMAL and FIGHTING moves.

Light Screen and Reflect: Only work on the pokemon that used it.

Blizzard: 90% accuracy makes it a formidable move.

Might want to list the Explosion/Selfdestruct on a sub glitch

**For a complete and detailed list, see Vineon’s RBY changes guide.

This concludes my guide. All the knowledge of how to become a great RBY battler is right here. Hopefully this will bring many new battlers to this great genre. A BIG thanks to Vineon, Justin, Hipmonlee for their previous information I was able to compile as well as to the RBY greats for making this such a competitive genre of pokemon J I hope you all will enjoy RBY as much as I do!

Awesome job on a solid guide :)

(If I forgot anything PLEASE post and let me know)
 
#9
Excellent guide. This should definetly increase the amount of RBY battlers greatly. All we need now is a part of the Dex for RBY.
 

Jackal

I'm not retarded I'm Canadian it's different
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#10
chaos I realized that thats why I did not go into very much detail at all with the sets. A sentence or two would suffice. Roy I know there are other options for all those sets but those are the most common in my experiece. The explosion on sub thing was covered under substitute.

Noobster wanted me to cover dodrio and I was like no the dex has that I just listed basic stuff.

Also leads dont ALWAYS have to be fast but its not a bad idea.
 
#13
Excellent work.

First, I highly disagree with the section in the second paragraph: "and anything new you can possibly try has been done". Not only has no RBY battle simulator that follows exact game mechanics been in existence over the nearly 10 years the games have been around, people are still working out some of the mechanics of RBY. Only in the past, say, year are people learning to more fully appreciate / standardize partial trapping moves, or discerning ways to fully exploit the glitches of moves such as Counter. If the metagame were fully established, we would not see such trends as certain Pokemon such as Zapdos / Jynx / Rhydon/Golem rise and fall into use or disuse. Experimental battling styles such as PMET or for instance the one I had intended to develop for the Smogon Tour have been far from fully realized. Telling RBY newbies that new strategies don't exist is actually a bad idea because many mini-strategies are discovered and poineered by battlers who aren't sure is and isn't standard and so learn to play something unusual effectively. Additionally, the "standard metagame" that's accepted among RBY'ers now (no ubers/evasion/OHKO's, sleep/freeze clause) wasn't always accepted, and many of these metagames were stunted before they could grow more fully. Sorry if this seems long and rambly, I just wanted to stress that RBY is far from a done deal. =)

For the Dragonite set, I'm not sure I'd pick both Agility /and/ T-wave... but, yeah, whatever is fine. I think I usually see just one of those and with something like Blizzard in other slot.

On Lapras, Confuse Ray is definitely more standard than Sing.

For Rhydon, stress powerful. 2HKO's many standards. =) Remember that Rhydon's HP gives it better over special and physical defense than Golem, and better attack by 40 points (or 30? hmm), so Golem just has 10 points of speed (just enough to outspeed Rhydon and tie itself...!) and Explosion going for it, and misses out on the awesome paraslam / sub routine that Rhydon sets up... okay you are not going to include all that but Rhydon rocks!

On Persian... okay, the whole community can be in denial about Screech for all I care. =\

For Gengar, just posting to say it's cool you got the arrangement for those moves right and everything. =)

Mimic is essentially the overwhelming standard on Zapdos, or should be, and /was/, the last time I checked.

If you're going to name Tobybro you might as well name that going with Surf on that Snorlax set gives you Fishlax.

Funny you included Dragonite on the list of most common Pokemon, it is true that a lot of people have been working with this recently (including me)... If you're going to modify the guide in terms of where the general direction of the metagame is right now with the integration of partial trapping moves, I'd also include Victreebel, and disclude Persian since I never see it around and it is something you want to be aware of... or just disclude Dragonite and you'll have the top 14 Pokemon below ubers according to Hip's tiers, which you may have referenced I'm guessing.

For "a paralysis move", I'd specify that this includes Body Slam (it does), but that you should always have at least 2 actual paralyzing moves IMO for stability's sake... well just my opinion actually.

"A ground Pokemon to take care of electrics". If you play efficient staple standard you can get away with Exeggutor, just ask Roy. However, yes, Pokemon like Zapdos and Lapras tend to tear up staple standard teams by their very nature as offensive, unpredictable mixed attackers... less and less people use those these days anyway, however.

Mention that there's no Sleep Talk or even Snore in RS along with that note about snoozing, maybe.

Love your 5 tips, I knew you'd be awesome at this. For me #1 also includes freeze, but, yeah, I am cruel generally. =)

For changes list, maybe note that sub doesn't block "most" status moves. Just to be completely accurate. ;-)

In the partial trapping moves section, mention that the Dragonite set previously listed is another hassle, maybe. Also mention Arbok, I'd recommend, since it has a move with a 75% chance of paralyzing anything at all, and the very accurate Wrap. Maybe make a section for UU and move Moltres to it, and add Tentacruel and Tangela I'd recommend personally. Anyway, good idea to let people know what to be aware of with these techniques, it's about time Wrap was recognized as a legitimate and competitive strategy.

Anyway, great work.

NP: Interpol - Evil

Edit: Just read the other comments, wanted to reaffirm that Roy is 100% right about Reflect Alakazam.

Edit: Another comment:

"~Sleep Clause and OHKO Clause enabled
~Evasion and OHKO moves are frowned upon"

Not sure how you want to fix this, I assume you'll be editing the first line probably.
Also, freeze is optional, but possibly shouldn't be, it's only that in this non-evasion metagame there's few opportunities for Ice Beam sniping by Pokemon other than Chansey, and it /usually/ runs out of PP by the time it's frozen 1 Pokemon... but yeah, technically the damage expectancy is 1.6 frozen Pokemon, so! You never know =) "I aim to freeze."
 

Jackal

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#14
Wow thanks pidgeot, I will definately make some edits to the guide with both roys and your comments. You pointed out some pretty important things that I will add in :)

Thanks for the support guys I am glad I could help.
 

Mekkah

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#15
Excellent. I would maybe have stressed the extreme force that is Tauros...nothing can describe how fucking powerful it is. There is NOTHING that can switch in on Tauros often without some risk. This goes for Exeggutor too to an extent, though you can just sacrifice your Jynx to an Explosion and the rest of it's moves won't do much.

Also, Agility and Mimic are much better than Light Screen on Zapdos, I'd say.

This is a great job, a lot better than the old guide I had. I wish we had such a thing for GSC.
 

Mekkah

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#17
At least you can prevent a Snorlax sweep by booming on it, Tauros is usually too fast. Snorlax is a force to be reckoned with but it can't, for example, beat both Gengar and Rhydon/Golem (unless it's Amnesialax, and then still boom). It's very powerful in it's own way, with Counter and Selfdestruct and whatnot, but Tauros' CH rate, speed, about-everything-coverage and stuff, I hold it in higher regard.
 
#19
Aye... or with just a few mispredictions. That time I faced you in the 8-man tournament, I kept overpredicting and taking more and more damage... Oh and I remember a casual battle when I switch in Counter Chansey on your Hyper Beam and you CH'ed for the 1HKO... yeah. Often people will let something that could easily come back late-game and self-KO or cause trouble be finished off, to avoid that mess of hax. Funny, I don't see Tauros around as much these days, though...

Another thing I somehow didn't see. For that Victreebel set: You definitely want Stun Spore over Sleep Powder, and toggle Swords Dance with Razor Leaf I'd say.
 

Altmer

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#20
also I think that Venusaur if played right can sometimes be very scary especially if you have mentioned Dragonite which is also BL IMO
 
#21
Not in itself I wouldn't say, if all your heavy hitters are paralyzed and pretty much everything is low-health then probably, but that's the same for any real sweeper, otherwise Venusaur will never sweep more than 1 Pokemon, 2 if it gets lucky I'd say, before Alakazam's Psychic, Starmie's Blizzard, someone's Hyper Beam, maybe Counter, etc. holds it back. Though it has the speed and (physical) defenses to attempt this better than Victreebel, aye. =)
 

Altmer

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#22
yeah, besides that it is a quicker sleeper than Exeggutor which is why I prefer using Saur and not Eggy
 

Jackal

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#23
Alright now that I have a computer again expect updates tomorrow to the guide!

I am sure you all cannot wait ;)
 
#24
I have yet to see a reasonable argument to ban OHKOs in RBY. They are, quite simply, terrible moves. In RBY you have to be faster for OHKOs to work. Of course, conveniently, most things that get OHKOs are very slow. The only exceptions really are Tauros and Dugtrio. In RBY, using a non-standard Tauros and doing something should be rewarded, not forbidden. Dugtrio is also quite UU and much like in the other games can't take a hit at all so he's not a big threat. Either way, Tauros is clearly better without a OHKO, and Dugtrio is arguably the same way. EQ is far more likely to do anything than Fissure. Also, Sheer Cold doesn't exist so immunities can always protect you from OHKOs. No sleep talk means no fish sets. Also, note that the only two Pokemon fast enough to have a chance to have their OHKOs ever succeed have terrible defenses. Seriously, OHKOs suck very badly in RBY. RBY is even more luck based so whining about them being luck abuse has even less than the zero validity it had in the other generations(now, you can make other arguments for banning them in other generations, but arguing you don't like luck is always a worthless argument). It seems to me that in the GSC days where OHKOs were clearly broken that people decided to ban them in all generations which is stupid. Basically, banning OHKOs in RBY is like banning Wobbuffet in GSC. I would probably never use OHKOs because they are such terrible moves, but it's still extremely annoying to see something randomly banned. If the ban has actual reason feel free to let me know, but I can't see how there is any reason to it at all.

Also, I found Chansey to be the best Pokemon in RBY simply because it can wall unlike, well, everything else in RBY. The fact that it likes being paralyzed unlike, well, everything else in RBY makes it a much bigger team player than Tauros in my eyes. Tauros gets paralyzed and cries because it just lost a lot of its advantage. Chansey gets paralyzed and says "sweet, freeze and sleep immunity". This also makes Chansey very useful in all stages of the game whereas Tauros really only realizes his full glory late game where he can sweep. There's also the fact that other Pokemon like Persian can fulfill Tauros's role to a lesser extent, but nobody can come close to doing what Chansey does. This is not to call Tauros bad as he's certainly very, very dominant, but I just see Chansey as a tiny bit more useful. I know that if I were to sleep/kill/freeze an enemy Chansey, I'd be a lot happier than if I did the same to an enemy Tauros.
 
#25
Oh, one other thing, also, I just realized. You say "Credit to Hipmonlee for this list:". You should probably change that to, "Hipmonlee's list of RBY tiers, with input from the overall community" or something along that lines. Not that the list isn't good, it is and Hipmonlee's very reasonable, but at the moment Hip's elected not to re-post the tiers, which prevents anyone from saying e.g. "Hey, I think Dugtrio is borderline" or "Gengar is staple" and promoting change, and anything that isn't subject to peer criticism shouldn't be assume to be a resource of constant truth, IMO... okay that was difficult to describe but basically unless Hip will argue with me over things meaningfully*, those aren't everyone's tiers! :o That or you be the tier judge and let me complain to you, but I don't think you'd want to do that, probably. =|

Amazing Ampharos said:
[arguments in favor of OHKOs]
It'd be wonderful if someone with moderation powers could split this into its own topic in the RBY forum, since I'd love to respond to it but I don't really see that it fits in this specific topic.

* meaningfully, as in, if he couldn't come up with a decent response he'd edit the topic, but there's no topic now is there
 

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