Tournament The Gen 7 Negative Tournament (Ended)


resident enigma
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Credit to Codraroll for original metagame concept.
Approved by The Immortal

The Negative Tournament
Let's send off gen 7 with a... whimper? In this metagame, which some may remember from the BW and XY eras, all base stats of all Pokemon are subtracted from 160, effectively flipped.

Tournament Rules
  • This is currently playable on ROM; please perform your matches there! (Note that Dewpider is banned for this tournament in addition to the existing bans.)
    • You can use /data [pokemon], negative to view an individual Pokemon's stats for this meta on ROM.
    • You can omit the "negative" argument when using this command in the context of a Negative battle. How convenient!
  • Games are best of three. Switching teams between games is permitted.
  • Replays must be posted in the thread with the win/loss declaration. Rescinded because nobody has done this LOL.
  • The deadline for rounds is typically one week.
  • Standard tournament guidelines will be observed.
  • Changes to the format banlist, if any, take effect for the next round.
This tournament is being used to gauge interest in the metagame and may pave the way for a permanent thread in the OM forum depending on community response. Read on for more information on the metagame itself. To register for this tournament, reply to the thread in some fashion that includes the word "in".
Signups are open until September 22nd, 11:59PM EDT (or earlier if a nice power of 2 is achieved and interest has dwindled).
Good luck!

With a hefty dose of Math, all your favorite Pokemon get flipped flopside. Note that if a stat were to be literally negative (well, actually any less than 5) after the Flip, it would simply be floored at 5. Therefore, Kartana will maintain the same Attack stat that Chansey used to have.
Thanks to this deceptively simple formula, you can expect a lot of zeros to become heroes and vice versa. Sunkern now boasts a BST far greater than that of the once-omnipotent Arceus-Grass. Shuckle goes from a meme of a tank to the most powerful glass cannon in the tier, especially after Shell Smash. You'll be hard-pressed to find any other fully-evolved 'mon worth using. Gothita and Diglett become some of the scariest trappers ever conceived—this metagame is Ubers-based, after all.
Speaking of which, Ubers are indeed allowed, although they'd be of little use beyond creating a scary facade—one that is easily broken once your Primal Groudon gets OHKOed by a Bellsprout. The same unfortunate truth applies to Mega Evolutions; there should not be any situation in which sacrificing both the item slot and 100 BST is an idea worth considering.
Despite all this, the metagame ends up looking quite different from something like LC or 350 Cup. The inversion means none of the roles are what you'd expect from a first glance—Cranidos is going to be the last thing you'd consider a physical threat in Negative. Experimentation is key—Lucky Punch Chansey can try to exist, for instance, although the 5 base HP will be its certain downfall.
To see a full list of all Generation 7 Pokemon before and after the Flip, please click here. It has a lot of pretty numbers and colors.

Why are stats subtracted from 160?

The original metagame subtracted from 150 in order to place Sunkern on par with the late Arceus. This noble premise has since been buffed somewhat to a 160 ceiling, allowing some Pokemon that had originally nice stats to be a little more viable while also not letting the little ones get too overpowered. Also, Shedinja still has 1 HP.

What differentiates this from Reversed?
Aside from the superficial similarity with physically oriented 'mons being swapped into special ones via the Negative effect, there is really quite the world of difference. All the OU staples of Reversed end up nigh unusable while previously nonexistent NFEs reign supreme here. Admittedly, with Inverse, Reverse, various Swap metagames, and Negative, the terminology can get a bit confusing...

  • Standard Ubers clauses, minus Mega Rayquaza Clause
  • Smeargle
    • This should be self-evident. It had a BST of 710 and very practical offensive stats; its lackluster Speed was easily alleviated by means of FakeSpeed like in old fashioned STABmons.
  • Dewpider
    • Water Bubble off base 120 attacking stats with the potential to be under rain in partial thanks to Pelipper's increased stats makes this thing obscene.
  • Huge Power, Pure Power
  • Eviolite, Light Ball, Thick Club, Deep Sea Tooth, Deep Sea Scale
Old forum threads: 1, 2, 3

Shuckle @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Bug Bite

No longer your grandma's dedicated lead, this bastard now sports the highest offenses in the game, at 150/150/155. This Speed tier is shared only with Munchlax and Pyukumuku, the latter of which has no real offensive moves; base 87 Choice Scarf users can threaten it before Shell Smash. With a boost up and opposing priority gone, though, this thing will survive any one hit thanks to Sturdy and inflict massive damage. It can also run a special set or go mixed with ease. This is one of the few fully evolved Pokemon to be meta relevant; how epic is that!

Marill @ Normalium Z
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Despite Huge Power being banned, this thing is absolutely no slouch, boasting a base 140 Attack. Sap Sipper is a completely acceptable fallback ability, leaving it fully immune to and boosted by what would otherwise be a weakness. The rest of it is quite standard; Knock Off is preferable over a secondary Water STAB move in order to wallop Grass/Poison types like Foongus and Bellsprout. Its bulk is quite decent, too, though one may wish to spec into Speed if it is being used more as a wallbreaker rather than a cleaner; 120 Speed is quite fast.

Zubat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Inner Focus / Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Roost
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball / Heat Wave

Sharing its BST with the infamously challenging-to-raise Noibat, those heinous stats turn incredible and give Zubat one of the best bulky offensive roles. Great coverage, reliable recovery, immunity to poison, and a nice boosting move allow it to wreak havoc.

Wooper @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb / Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic

This axolotl is packing a "punch". Step aside, Kyurem-B; does this look like the face of mercy? Despite the standard stallish set, it can opt for a fully offensive role and invest in Speed thanks to its glorious base 145 Speed among a 750 BST. Whether it's made for fat or quickness, it'll be hard to take down with its immense natural bulk.

Swinub @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

World champion hog is here to fill the role of its progenitor. Its Special Attack is much higher than Mamoswine's base 80, so it opts for a mostly special set, featuring Ice Shard to pick off weakened foes. This means it can run Freeze-Dry without much hassle, destroying any cheeky Water-types that dare to switch in.

Foongus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire

This familiar face of Little Cup finds a nice niche here with its stylish new 666 BST. Its bulk is actually a bit low compared to others like Zubat, and the lack of Eviolite leaves it similarly vulnerable, but its claims to fame are Regenerator and a very fast Spore.

Spinarak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sticky Web
- Sucker Punch
- Toxic Spikes
- Leech Life

Great Speed, Sticky Web, Toxic Spikes, and a Sucker Punch to boot. Never mind the absolutely epic Swarm-boosted Leech Life that will really save this guy in a pinch. What's not to love? Well, its Attack is actually a bit low in the end, and the lack of U-turn is a disappointment. Still, this spider can take its fair share of hits. Alternatively, Cutiefly gets both Sticky Web and U-turn as well as a much lower Speed; the slow pivoting may be valuable on its own.

Gothita @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Charm
- Rest
- Psyshock

Everyone's favorite part of Ubers is ready for battle, this time with stats that put it up to par with the best! Watch your PP magically drain away as your attacks do naught but a dent to this little creature. While its new Attack is greater than its Special Attack, Calm Mind boosts onto Psyshock can help mercy kill the foe before the PP struggle begins. If you're a more honorable individual, you may opt to use Diglett instead.

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform

Okay, so Ditto is also fully evolved, meaning Shuckle can't claim the title of sole relevant evolved 'mon. Regardless, its base 48 HP is very appreciably improved to 112.
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resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor
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won vs ezaphs in 2, the first one I avoided a toxic which made ralts sweep when it should have just killed 3 mons.. meanwhile in the second game I flinched twice his zubat which made his mu way too bad, I hope you got better luck irl than in mons, I know the feeling of not having any flow too well :blobpensive:


decidedly updog
is a member of the Site Staffis a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
now I'm out I have no reason to keep resources to myself, so here's a spreadsheet I made- it has all the Negative stats with the 5 min cap, as well as values determining how good every mon is defensively by running example damage calcs. Hope it's useful!

Also, use Sandygast, Bronzor and Taillow- they're all really good! Sandygast is probably the best Ghost (other than Sableye) even though it uses EdgeQuake instead of Ghost STAB, Bronzor is strong and has some great resistances (especially to Swinub), and Taillow is actually extremely bulky, can Defog, has U-Turn and most importantly has 130 Sp.Atk Scrappy Boomburst.
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