The LC Hub: What Would You Like to See?

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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Hi everyone, I am pleased to announce that work on the LC Hub has already begun! For those of you who aren't familiar with what a hub is, it's essentially a center for all the news, resources, and activities that goes on-site for each metagame! RU and NU have already essentially launched theirs (here and here, respectively), but LC is a bit behind as we wanted to wait until we finished the last suspect test. Now that that's complete, we are ready to get our hub on-site! However, first, we want your input! What do you want to see in the hub? Is there anything that isn't included in the NU / RU hubs that would be cool to include in the LC ones? Anything you see in the NU / RU hubs that you want to make sure we include? Let your voice be heard in this thread, and stay tuned for more information on how you can get involved!


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Maybe a battle of the week or something to show something new or underused in LC. I like both ideas!
Underrated Pokemon of the Month, maybe?

We could pick a random Pokemon, have a bunch of people play around with it to see if there's something it has that can make it threatening and dangerous, and if we find anything, put the set up for public testing. It has to be monthly since testing a Pokemon isn't just a 2 hour expedition.


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I like RayJay's Banned Pokemon wrap up here, we could use that in a history of LC bans.

I second Gengan's idea (shockingly at that)
i'd really like to see a botw.

also, i think a cool idea to invigorate more lc interest overall would be to do sort of a leaderboard / record list to go along with the many cool events that can be run through the lc forum. players want to be recognized for achievements, i mean isn't that why most people ladder and strive to win tournaments? a comprehensive list of records kept such as "highest lc ladder score" or "most lc mini-tournament wins" would give players something to shoot for and add a more competitive atmosphere throughout the community. things such as major tournament wins (official lc tournaments or something like "lost cave") and dominant teams at the time of their conception can also be incorporated into this archive. although some may never break blarajan's record of most dumbass remarks in a row on irc, i feel this will show where lc has come and where it's heading as well as give dedicated players something to work towards.
Aerrow told me to work on the history of banned Pokemon part, since I've been around the entire time.
alrighty i did collect some stuff though so you can use it to help you get started

NOTE: Aerrow asked me and I started writing this. The first two sections have the stuff Elevator_Music got done heavily incorporated into them. Just giving some credit where it's due.

UPDATE: Well, this is now done, I'm going to get some people to look over it and GP checks.

November 16, 2010

A vote determined that initial Little Cup would have Scyther, Sneasel, Tangela, Yanma, and Berry Juice banned. Eviolite was on the ballot but did not get banned.

BW had been out for two months, and Little Cup was ready to get rolling. A group of 8 people (another 8 qualified but were disqualified due to insufficient reasoning) PM'd Vader and Dubulous with votes and reasoning regarding an initial banlist. These were the bans that every person could say, without doubt, were needed to have a playable metagame. The first two were unanimous. No one was letting Scyther in LC, as its stats had people drawing comparisons to Arceus, the ability Technician to make Quick Attack and U-turn insanely powerful, and an armada of moves that allowed it to instantly tear every Pokemon to shreds. Sneasel was the fastest Pokemon in the tier, had above-average defenses, had Swords Dance to boost its high Attack stat, and had STAB priority in Ice Shard to make Choice Scarf users a futile resistance. The other three bans were not quite so unanimous but were still deemed necessary by a majority of the voters. Tangela was banned for its ability to effortlessly tear apart the tier with a Sunny Day set ans had Sleep Powder to neuter the few counters that existed. Yanma followed the trend with ridiculous raw power and access to Speed Boost boosting that same stat that made it impossible to revenge kill. A set with Compoundeyes as its ability and Hypnosis could rip apart all Pokemon that could check or counter its signature Speed Boost set. Berry Juice would fully restore the HP of every Pokemon in LC, making heavy offense far too powerful. No one even gave Dragon Rush and Sonicboom a second look, a move OHKOing most of LC is like having no OHKO clause and OHKO moves being perfectly accurate. Really, this banlist is self-explanatory and got the creme de la creme of broken Pokemon out of Little Cup so as to not begin the tier in total chaos. Oh, and briefly on Eviolite—some people thought it might make some Pokemon too difficult to KO, but there were more pressing matters at hand, so it fell by the wayside, awaiting further trial.

Notable Threads: Little Cup Initial Banlist Discussion by Heysup and Initial Little Cup Banlist - Voting Thread! by Dubulous

January 18, 2011

After Round 1 of suspect testing, the ability Moody was banned. Eviolite, Meditite, and Scraggy were suspected but ultimately did not get banned.

Little Cup had kicked into gear, and about that time people had discovered the horror of Moody in all tiers. The ability that ruined battles with its reliance on pure luck, making teams with the otherwise mediocre Bidoof and Remoraid impossible to effectively combat. Moody centralized the metagame to an unhealthy extent and made it almost unplayable. The other suspects that were brought up consisted of Eviolite, Meditite, and Scraggy. Scraggy could boost up to KO a ton of Pokemon, but people found ways around it. Eviolite stood the test and was found to make a healthy, more diverse metagame. Meditite had so much power, but it wasn't so over the top that it was broken. The voting system remained the same, any willing persons able to submit their votes to Vader and Dubulous and sufficient reasoning granting them a say in the vote.

Notable Threads: np: LC - Little Dancer (VOTE HERE) by Dubulous and LC Round 1 Suspect Voting by Dubulous

March 25, 2011

After Round 2 of suspect testing, Murkrow was banned. Meditite was on the ballot but did not get banned.

This next suspect period, the menace that was Murkrow made its presence felt hard, as it had a plethora of sets—such as a near uncounterable FeatherDance set that had Prankster giving its moves priority, a mixed set that lacked safe switch-ins due to Murkrow's high offenses, a Substitute set that was impossible to revenge kill, and a Calm Mind set that could pull off an easy sweep—that made it very unpredictable. The fact was, it didn't just have one broken set, it had more than four! STAB priority in Sucker Punch and the possible Roost made it difficult to revenge kill even if it wasn't sporting Substitute. Meditite had its trademark ridiculous power, but Murkrow was so dominant, so overcentralizing that it wasn't the foremost thing in people's minds. The voting process this round was different, with Vader and Dubulous handpicking 10 users that demonstrated proficiency in battling and knowledge of Little Cup. These users did a simple vote stating their position on the suspect's tiering.

Notable Threads: np: LC - Blackbird, Now with Voting! by Vader, LC Nomination Thread 2 by Dubulous, and Little Cup Round 2 Voting by Vader

May 18, 2011

After Round 3 of suspect testing, Vulpix was banned. Meditite and Misdreavus did not receive enough support for an outright ban and so were automatic suspects for the next round.

Sun teams were taking the metagame by storm. Vulpix had obtained the ability Drought, and with no Drizzle around to neuter it, unlike OU, there was very little stopping the common Pokemon on sun teams from bringing the metagame down on its knees. These Pokemon consisted of two main groups—Chlorophyll sweepers and Fire-types. Chlorophyll sweepers were for the most part impossible to outspeed and could boost their offenses by +2 each with Growth. Many also had Sleep Powder to cripple their opposition, Giga Drain to recover their health, and a Hidden Power to patch up missing coverage. Some even had Weather Ball. Fire-type Pokemon have their STAB boosted in sun, allowing them to power through even Pokemon that resist Fire-type attacks. Between these two groups of Pokemon, sun was for all intents and purpose unstoppable. There were two other big kahunas this round, Meditite and Misdreavus. Meditite had been suspected numerous times before and for good reason, having a ridiculous amount of power and solid defenses with Eviolite. Misdreavus had diversity somewhat comparable to Murkrow, with few counters and even checks available. Both barely failed to reach the necessary supermajority mark, however, so their time for being banned had yet to come. The voting system for this round changed again, this time being the top 10 on the ladder and any users who got within 10 points of it.

Notable Threads: np: LC - Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting - now with alt verification by Vader and Little Cup Round 3 Voting by Vader

July 15, 2011

After Round 4 of suspect testing, Carvanha, Gligar, Meditite, and Misdreavus were banned. Scraggy was on the ballot but did not get banned.

While the previous suspect rounds had been quite conservative in terms of bans, everyone seemed to decide this round that a purge of broken Pokemon was needed. In an unprecedented event, four Pokemon proved themselves broken and got banned all at once. Carvanha had Speed Boost making it more and more difficult to outspeed with each passing turn and insane power. It could even run a mixed set and wreck its standard set's counters. Gligar defined tank, having excellent defenses that made it a hard stop or at least check to a ton of physical threats and could sweep needing minimal support with Acrobatics + Flying Gem. Meditite's ban was a long time coming, being voted on every previous round and attaining a simple majority in the last one. Meditite was so powerful that it outright murdered most of the metagame with STAB Hi Jump Kick, and KOing it was not easy either when it had Eviolite boosting its defenses. Misdreavus also came in off a simple majority. It had a ton of sets, each having very few counters, and there was not one Pokemon that could beat more than one of its main sets (which consisted of Nasty Plot, SubWisp, Calm Mind, Choice Scarf, and defensive). Blazing Speed, priority Sucker Punch, high offenses, and access to Roost pushed it way over the edge. Scraggy got yet another vote to not be banned, this time being much more solidified with metagame shifts making it much less potent. The voting requirements were a rating of 1250 or higher on the ladder.

Notable Threads: np: LC - Smells Like Teen Spirits by Vader and LC Round 4 Suspect Voting by Dubulous

November 8, 2011

The new Little Cup council decided that Gligar, Misdreavus, and Murkrow would be unbanned.

Other Smogon tiers were moving to a council system, and Little Cup was no different. A council of Aerrow, Crux, Elevator_Music, little gk, macle, Ray Jay, and Vader was established. This was after a massive four Pokemon had been banned in the last round. This council undid three of those decisions, leaving only Carvanha banned. These Pokemon had been borderline when they were voted on, so they were given a second chance. The basis was, these Pokemon had a few counters, a decent amount of checks, and might not be as overkill as previously thought if people would just adapt to them. As such, a new metagame was formed, and as expected, people began to adapt to these threats without the decision to ban them being in their own hands.

Notable Thread: np: LC - Hello Goodbye by Vader

April 2, 2012

After reevalulating the three unbanned Pokemon, the council decided to ban Gligar and keep Murkrow and Misdreavus. Meditite and Berry Juice were proposed to be unbanned but ultimately were not.

Note that iss replaced Crux on the council this round. Anyway, this round ended up being a conundrum of everything that needed to get done tiering-wise in LC. Gligar proved itself broken once again, with its trademark AcroBat set tearing the metagame to shreds, brutally effective Toxic + Taunt stalling set, and defensive set that was the worst nightmare of many a physical attacker pushing it over the edge in an actually not-so-decisive 4-3 vote. Baton Pass also contributed to the ban, as Gligar could easily pass its Swords Dance boosts to a teammate. Meditite had not been directly unbanned and so was given a discussion; this discussion determined led to the decision to keep it banned, as its insane power, stellar bulk with Eviolite, and ability to hit every Pokemon in the tier for at least neutral damage are not conducive to a balanced Pokemon. Berry Juice had mixed opinions at first, with the prevailing thought being that it would have a big effect but not so much so that it was actually broken. After playing some games with Berry Juice and arguments from Heysup and Vader, the entire council decided that it was best for Berry Juice to stay banned.

Notable Threads/Posts: np: LC - Freebird by Aerrow, Council Voting Results by Aerrow, Meditite (Currently Banned) by Ray Jay, Murkrow by iss, and Berry Juice by macle

May 24, 2012

Drilbur, Murkrow, and Scraggy were discussed as suspects, but none of them were banned.

Just to make sure the metagame was as balanced as could be, Drilbur, Murkrow, and Scraggy were evaluated to see if they were broken. No one really thought so, however, and the consensus ended up being that the metagame was balanced. All suspecting was discontinued so as not to ruin this state of balance, and because Little Cup is not ever-changing, unlike other tiers, there was no reason to continue. The council remained in existence just in case something came up. This marked the end of Little Cup suspect testing for the forseeable future.

Notable Posts: Introduction of Suspects by Aerrow and The Metagame Is Balanced by Aerrow

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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Important note about the November 8 period: Meditite and Berry Juice were proposed for unbanned after April 2 but both remained banned.
I like a BOTW idea
I'd like to do a tournament coverage of the lc open.
it'd be cool to have mini lc tournies like ru does so we can get activity.
i also like gengan's idea
Backin up Sir's idea of mini LC tournies. NU does it a lot and they're always fun-looking.

Getting back to the Underrated Threats idea, there was a topic in NU that I really loved called The Underdog Challenge. I feel this could work with LC since there's arguably the same amount of Pokemon in both tiers. Basically, you had to make a team of Pokemon, but at least 2 had to be under the 2% usage status (for LC we could extend to this ~5% since LC pokemon under 2% usually have nothing to offer). They even have a hall of fame that highlights people who have had good success with their Pokemon.

The question is, what exactly would we name this?

Ray Jay

"Jump first, ask questions later, oui oui!"
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OK everyone, I don't want this to be so much a suggestion for projects anymore; we have people working on that, I want to know what information or resources or other things you want the hub to have!
Well, don't we really have the resources we need?
pretty much but you never know what might come up, i would like to see a bot program start up, if it would fall under the hub that is.
definitely an all time ladder board.
probably links to great smog articles like this one (definately my favorite lc article even if i don't use the cores :P)as well as other great reference material all compiled into one spot so we don't have to go dredging through countless links and often overlook some stuff. although that seems to be a key aspect of the hub.
A mini-tournament thing going on like the NUlympics (i really like that idea) or challenges like using monogen teams or only using 2 pokes in the top x amount and seeing what ladder peaks you can get too, and then putting that in a subsection of the all time ladder board.
I'm sure if I had more time I could think of more ideas
Somewhere where we can post creative/underused sets and such (i know we have that already, but still) I would post my Sweeper/Antifoo wingull and my scarfchop right away
In the meanwhiile, I have come up with two more ideas that sort of hinge together. The validity of whether or not they would be featured in the hub is questionable, but I'll still bring them up. About once a month we could ask some people/someone to come up with a featured warstory or RMT. And i know i said two but while I'm thinking about it, we could add a CCaT, but I'm almost certain that that remains outside the boundaries of this.
hmm ok Ray Jay you said you now want information and resources for the hub to have. I have been working on LC teambuilding as you already know. Perhaps that is something that can be shown in the hub? I did neaten it up the format and added animated sprites for the pokemon to pretty it up. If you feel that the "Stuff Not to Use" section doesn't have enough content i will try post some more of those, let me know what you think :)

I also support Viashinomage's preposal of the smogs "LC Cores" article to be featured in the hub. I found that particularily helpful for me using a modified version of the lure and bait core (Misdreavus + Tirtouga) and building quite a succesful team.

Also i think KingTorterraXIV's warstory deserves a spot in the hub, because it is not everyday that a wartstory is written for Little Cup and this one was quite a excellent wartstory. It features daul commentary with Hawkstar as well and both of them are using their respective Little Cup teams that peaked #1 which can be found here and here the battle was also great as both players were skilled and knew what they where doing while the battle was won with only 1 hit point left on KingTorterraXIV's last pokemon. I think having a warstory like this on the hub will make pokemon players excited to learn Little Cup!
Maybe a comment section under pokemon analysis's where people could share quick tips they have learned from using the pokemon e.g. If you have eviolite scraggy or missy vs. another scraggy or missy boost the first turn if you are timid/jolly and switch out if modest/adamant.

Alternatively, a seperate quick tips section to do the above.
^ While this would be helpful, we'd get those few people who think they found something revolutionary and it's either stupid, unhelpful, already found, or wrong. And believe me, there'd be plenty of them.
^ While this would be helpful, we'd get those few people who think they found something revolutionary and it's either stupid, unhelpful, already found, or wrong. And believe me, there'd be plenty of them.
yeah i totally would do that :P, but overall it's a very good idea and shouldn't just be pushed aside, If we have the users ask mods about it beforehand (like i did very recently to blarajan and charmander about hp bronzor (don't try it))and have them get flagged/infractured for not posting w/o permission or something, it could work. although that could get out of hand for the mods so idk


The professor?
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This is shamelessly stolen from NU, but I think we should do interviews with some of the LC veterans/council members like Vader, EM etc... Obviously we'd need an interviewer and interviewees that are willing to participate but it would be a cool feature imo.


and at once I knew I was not magnificent
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LC CCAT Version III is up! This round, we'll be building a team around a concept, and then choosing six pokemon. This will help us both grasp a better knowledge of the LC metagame and also hopefully help some newcomers understand what's going on with the baby pokemon as of now. Each step only lasts a week, so be sure to get your submissions in!

Most of all, have fun!
Hi! Most of you probably don't know this, but we've actually been working on the hub psuedo-behind-the-scenes for the past few weeks. If you visit you can see our progress. Most recently, we've put up a bunch of resources under the Resource tab, and uploaded the History of LC that pokemon0078 wrote above. We've also had some fantastic artwork drawn for us by TheMutant (Resources and History pages) and elcheeso (Interview with Blarajan (you can find it in the Resources tab)), so be sure to thank them for that!

Our hub is still very much a work in progress, and we have to put a lot more stuff in before we can consider it complete. So if you guys have any ideas for things to put into it, please talk to either myself or Charmander. You should also try contributing to projects like the usage-based threat list, which will definitely be going into the hub once its finished.

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