ORAS OU The new Wonder Trio

[Eoin482]

The New Wonder Trio​

Hello and welcome to my RMT! My name is Eoin and though I mainly specialize in the draft format of mons, I decided to try my hand at building something viable but novel to close out Gen 6 with. I started with the revolutionary concept of building around a bulky Mega Scizor, since it remains one of the easiest things in the tier to develop as a win condition. The end result is pretty cool in my opinion, and perhaps worth looking at by more experienced builders in the tier than myself.

Teambuilding Process

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The first pokemon I had in the team was Mega Scizor, and barring a debate between two moves during final testing, this set never changed much. It was clear from the outset that the team would not be overly defensive, and also that this was going to be the designated win con in many cases, so the standard bulky SD set was most appropriate.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Revolutionary as I said. The set lives a HP Fire from Mega Diancie after rocks and sets up on physical attackers up to and including the equivalent of Scarfed Landorus. I debated between Superpower and U-turn after building the rest of the team due to a difficulty vs Life Orb Excadrill and Bisharp but ultimately the ability to escape from and trap opposing Magnezone was just a lot easier than predicting with Superpower.

The idea was from here to make a list of the most common answers to Scizor and pick things that punished them. At the top of the list of threats was of course Magnezone. I considered Dugtrio but after looking at other merits, such as the ability to completely remove Whirlwind Skarmory as a Scizor check, I decided to go with a Magnezone of my own. Since the idea was to beat opposing Magnezone I tweaked the standard sets a little.

Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Flash Cannon

After a U-turn, HP Ground kills all standard variants of Magnezone. Having the IVs for HP Ground also ensure it always outspeeds Specs HP Fire Zone. Assault Vest allows it to avoid being 2hkod by Scarfed HP Fire after Rocks. Specially defensive Heatran cannot Ohko with Lava Plume and is 2hkod by HP Ground after rocks, Earth Power has a low chance to Ohko. Pairing this with Scizor gives you an incredible matchup against common variants of stall who rely on Skarmory either to set or remove hazards, or more importantly to check physical setup. The Assault Vest also helps vs Tornadus T who proved to be problematic sometimes.

The next pokemon which menaces Scizor and needed a counter was Rotom-W. While there were no shortage of options to take a hit from it, or shrug off status, none of those had the ability to consistently stop it from Volt Switching. Looking through the list of Electric immunities, I saw that Gastrodon would fit this role incredibly well, also covering the existing weakness to pokemon like Mega Manectric, Tankchomp, Heatran, and even to opposing Scizor in some cases. While Gastrodon is outclassed in all its usual roles nowadays, its stats are still very respectable and the ability to completely shut down Rotom was enough of a selling point.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Recover

A fully physically defensive spread, if kept healthy, allows you to check Sand cores reasonably well. Ice Beam was chosen over Ground Stab to improve the matchup against more offensive Garchomp variants, and generally hits its switch ins better. Toxic allows it to beat Rotom, even if it wants to stay in and pain Split. Since Rotom is typically many teams' go-to switch in for Scald it can be difficult to play around Gastrodon safely once Toxic damage forces it out. Beats every Talonflame bar the tech Natural Gift set. Lacking Ground Stab makes matchups vs Charizard X more difficult, and this has been one of the lingering problems of the team, but if the rest of the team prevents it from setting up, then Toxic allows this to 1v1 it. Also "counters" Rain rest CM Manaphy which beats the other two if allowed a boost.

Next on the list of things to be dealt with were Charizard Y, Keldeo, and the group of Grass types who either carried HP Fire or a sleep inducing move. Since at this point I wanted to introduce either some hazards or hazard control, the obvious choice was Latias. Having two Steel types and a means of trapping Heatran and at worst forcing it to take huge damage, as well as the best Weavile counter in the game, meant Latias could provide an offensive threat simply by carrying dual Stab coverage, which allowed me to run recovery and hazard control. However, in theory, pokemon like Amoonguss, Mega Venusaur, Tangrowth and Breloom put me in 50-50 scenarios in terms of predicting Sleep moves. With that in mind I chose the following set:

Latias @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Defog

This set was mainly chosen for its defensive merits, providing a continuous switch in for the aforementioned threats. Safety Goggles, while being chosen purely for the ability to avoid Sleep, have the curious property with this spread of allowing you to occasionally avoid being 2hkod by Scarfed T-tars Pursuit due to the lack of sand damage if you stay in. The offensive coverage is standard, and does ok due to the team's answers to opposing Fairies/Steel types. The finished team ended up being quite resistant to Stealth Rocks but Defog ensures you don't get overwhelmed by Spikes stacking. Roost lets you come in on Keldeo forever. Psychic was chosen over Psyshock because after rocks a Psychic into Draco Meteor kills Tail Glow Manaphy, while Psyshock does not. The ability to hit CM users isn't really relevant on this team, and in general it just hits a little harder.

At this point in the process Stealth Rocks were required, as well as something for the common Dark/Fighting coverage combination, ie. a Fairy. Fortunately I found a little known gem from Gen 1 which served my purpose.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

It absolutely agonizes me not to have that one move but Stealth Rocks were needed to deal with Zard X and to help with Talonflame. Considered dropping Calm Mind for T-wave as is standard but the matchup this gives you vs stall is too valuable. Without T-wave it does lack the hilarious property of going 1v1 with Mega Venusaur but overall CM Clef is just terrifying and forces the opposition to preserve certain things they might otherwise use to switch into its teammates. Obviously provides the team with some defensive synergy creating the F/D/S core but Clef is generally not great at switching into anything properly strong.

With one available slot left I wanted to add a Fire type, but the best ones didn't fit well due to secondary typing. I also lacked a speed tier above the common 110 threshold, so it became a choice between Weavile, Torn, and Serperior. However, the need for a reliable check to Tail Glow Manaphy was the decisive factor. Serperior also benefited from the Magnezone's ability to trap and put heavy damage on sp def Heatran. It paired well with Scizor who shut down fast checks such as Weavile. In general, of the three pokemon considered for their speed, it seemed the most threatening.

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The standard set was tweaked to have max offenses, as I am unconvinced of the efficiency of running HP EVs and Leech Seed. Leaf Storm is the team's fastest method of dealing with the likes of Rotom-W, Manaphy and Quagsire. As with Scizor and Clefable, it enjoys Heatran being removed early in the game, especially since Leaf Storm only has 8 PP, so firing off ineffective hits is a bad idea. SubSeeds lets it 1v1 Chansey which is the main draw of the set, but also has general utility vs most predicted counters. HP Fire was chosen over anything else for Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Skarm etc.

The Team as a Whole

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Magnezone @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Flash Cannon

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Latias @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Defog

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]​

The main draw of the team for me is the trio of Mega Scizor, Magnezone and Gastrodon, who cover some of the staples of balance exceptionally well. By taking the main risk factor out of building a team around Scizor, that of being beaten at team preview by Magnezone, the strategy of simply building with counters to Scizor checks becomes much more viable. Heatran, Landorus, Garchomp, Rotom-W, Weavile, and the Latis to name a few are all dealt with by this trio.

While the walls are definitely breakable, the team also matches up reasonably well against varying degrees of offense, mainly as a result of Scizor. However, it is clearly the most offensive team archetypes that threaten this squad. Bird spam style teams, and anything with Charizard X has a decent matchup at least. On a positive note the presence of Mega Scizor usually prevents Baton Pass teams from working properly.

Against stall the team has proven at its most successful. The combination of Zone and Scizor alone usually wins the game but the added bonus of having a rock setter that forces out Mega Sableye, a genuine answer to Amoonguss, and multiple ways of punishing setup fodder, makes this a team worth trying for anyone sick of the colour pink.


Weaknesses ;-;
Watch out for:

Be afraid of:

Ono It's:

Click Dat X It's:

Thanks for taking the time to check out this team! As with any team it's far from perfect, but I have hit that point where making changes to accommodate a weakness leaves me weak to something else, so any outside suggestions/comments are very welcome :)

 

[Tinberz]

Hi. Nice team you have got!

It's nice of you to provide a rather comprehensive list of threats, and therefore I shall work on this.

Here are some suggestions:

Run 248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD, Impish Nature
This set makes sure that you always avoid the 2HKO from MLop's HJK without Rocks, which could be useful as your team is pretty MLop weak.

Scarf > AV
I would honestly prefer a Scarf set for more reliability in trapping. You'll be getting the same amount of damage on Heatran anyway, or even more, as you get outsped. However, Scarf gives you more reliable trapping in general.

Rotom-W > Gastrodon

Rotom-W beats the majority of your threatlist while at the same time not making your team weaker to anything big. For example, it checks Sand Offense, BirdSpam, Torn-T, Bisharp and MMetagross, all of which are big threats to your team. The speed investment in the set I suggested below allows you to outspeed Adamant Bisharp (the good set) and hit it with a Wisp before it gets a hit on you.

Latios > Latias

This is pretty much optional but I think your team prefers the offensive presence of Latios. You don't really need Defog too so I just replaced it with Surf.

TWave > CM; 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD, Bold Nature
TWave gives you an emergency check to some of the set-up sweepers that threaten your team such as Zard X and Dragonite. Max Defense allows you to do this even better.

56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe, Timid Nature
Quoting Smogdex, "the HP EVs prevent Rotom-W's Hydro Pump from breaking Serperior's Substitutes". This allows you to set up Subs on it 100%.

Here are the sets:

Sets

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 44 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Flash Cannon

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 132 Def / 128 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Surf

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power Fire
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

That's it for my rate. Hope I helped, thanks for reading and have a nice day! n_n

 

[Eoin482]

Thanks for the reply! Some of the changes you suggested have a lot of merit behind them are definitely worth considering.

The extra bulk on Scizor is definitely a change I can get behind, the Lopunny calc is a clear example of an area where the team would benefit, and the extra defense also makes it easier to cycle through Roost SD vs the likes of Scarfed Excadrill and Landorus.

The Magnezone set was chosen because of the unique properties it gives me vs opposing Magnezone, but I forgot to mention a key calc that prevented me from running a Scarf:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 236-278 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
In addition the ability to lure Zard X into setting up (for example after getting a kill with a Stab) is an important means of counter-play to that threat. Finally the Assault Vest allows it to take Rocks, Burn damage, and a Hex from Gengar, Scizor being the counter to non Wisp variants.

Rotom-W is of course a fine option but didn't give me a means of preventing opposing Rotom from gaining momentum.

Swapping the two Latis gives the team something it obviously lacks in real immediate power and was something I considered early in the building process. However given how the team plays, which is quite a slow style of developing the win conditions, I feel constantly dropping into the same wallbreaker doesn't do as much for me as it could. Additionally Latios is a notoriously poor counter to Keldeo, Volcanion and Charizard Y. Were I to make the Gastrodon/Rotom-W switch the option of going without hazard control would arguably be manageable, but otherwise I do need Defog to avoid losing to Spikes.

Twave Clef with phys def is all round probably the best switch to be made. Despite making games vs stall a little longer the bonus of having speed control and a means of punishing common switch ins is fantastic.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
This calc is definitely a strong argument for making that switch, especially since Clefable's sp def is often used to improve its matchup vs things that are hard countered by Gastrodon anyway.

The logic behind the Smogdex quote is clearly a bit misguided; if they are reduced to going for Hydro Pump vs Serperior the game is already over. Since Serp has a naturally low base Sp att every EV makes a difference, especially when the rolls to kill Heatran (after taking the HP ground), and Ferrothorn at +2 are so close. Also if I was optimizing bulk for that Rotom calc I would also run 44 Sp def to achieve the same quality but get more out of Leech Seed and have 12 EVs leftover.


Many thanks for the analysis! I'm going to try the team first with all the changes you made, and possibly afterwards synthesize the two into hopefully the optimal squad. Testing with a fresh account the original team held a healthy Gxe of between 81-83, and is curently just off the 1700s at 35-6. I'll attempt to get the second team to the same Elo on a new account and then try bringing them both up into the higher ladder to see how they fare.

 

[Millionsunz]

Hey Eoin482 cool team. I can clearly tell that MegaSciz and Mag are part of the "new" wonder trio, but whose the third? (I can't read sometimes lol) I also like your use of Gastrodon, a very underrated Pokemon in the tier. Looking over your team, it gets rocked by Charizard Y, having no switch ins outside of Latias, who can be very easily worn down. Zard Y is able to free spam both Fire Blast/Flamethrower and Solar Beam to demolish a majority of your team. Scizor, Magnezone, Serp, and Gastrodon are OHKOed by Fire Blast and SolarBeam respectively, and Clefable is 2HKOed by Fire Blast. Your best answer to Zard Y is Latias, which is easily worn down after pivoting in to strong attacks. Zard Y also has a positive typing matchup against your team, being able to easily take on MegaSciz and Serp, and it resists Clefable's Moonblast. Pokemon like Mega Medicham and Talonflame are able to put in a considerable amount of work against your team. Mega Medicham is able to either OHKO or 2HKO every member on your team, and escapes the OHKO from Latias' Draco Meteor, allowing it to beat the one shaky check you have to it. Fake Out damage also slowly wears down your team, as you have no solid check to the absolute monster that is the monk. Talonflame, like Zard Y, puts in a large amount of work against your team with it's Fire-type attacks, hitting MegaSciz, Magnezone, and Serp with Flare Blitz. Brave Bird also puts in a decent amount of work against your team, and CB variants have a 50% chance to 2HKO Gastrodon after SR and Leftovers recovery. Clefable is also 2HKOed, and so is Latias. SpDef Talonflame is also able to 1v1 all members of the team except for your AV Magnezone, burning MegaSciz with Will-O and being able to get off priority Roosts to 1v1 Clef, Lati, and Serp, not to mention that Acrobatics also breaks Serp's sub and can easily 2HKO it. Keeping all this in mind, lets jump in to the rate.

First off, your Mega Scizor. While it is only a small change, changing out U-Turn for Bug Bite will be very beneficial to your team. There is no point to setting up SDs only to U-Turn out and loose all the boosts you set up. Bug Bite also gets a nice increase in Base Power, going from Base 60 to Base 90 thanks to Technician. Bug Bite allows Mega Scizor to actually be a set-up sweeper. While it does allow you to be trapped by Magnezone and other trappers, the offensive prowess that Bug Bite provides greatly outweighs the situation where you let MegaSciz get trapped.

Next, onto Magnezone. I don't know if there's something the air, but this is the second time I've encountered an AV Magnezone. Either I'm behind metagame trends (which I hope isn't the case), or AV Mag isn't exactly a thing. Instead of AV, running a Choice Scarf set allows you to check Zard-Y and Mega Medicham to a small extent, as you are able to outspeed and hit them hard with STAB Thunderbolt. Choice Scarf Mag also makes your relatively slow team a tiny bit faster, outpacing base 111s. Running HP Fire over HP Ground is also something that I would suggest, as HP Fire is able to hit Ferrothorn and opposing Scizor harder than HP Ground. However, with the loss of HP Ground, Mag loses it's viability against Heatran, which can be a big threat to Mega Scizor.

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Third, we have Gastrodon. Gastrodon is certainly a neat Pokemon to use in OU, although it can be hard to pull off. In your OP, you mention that Gastrodon is a good check to Sand teams. I have to disagree with this statement, as Gastrodon has a pretty good chance to be 2HKOed by a LO EQ from Excadrill. Gastrodon also does not beat "every" Talonflame. In fact, it can have trouble breaking through the niche SpDef set, and it has a 50% chance of being 2HKOed by CB Brave Bird after a SR switch in. Overall, changing Gastrodon to Landorus-T improves the defensive capabilities of the team, being able to check a plethora of threats like Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, Charizard X, Dragonite, Scarf Jirachi, opposing Mega Scizor, Talonflame, and Tyranitar, just to name a few. LandoT is arguably the best check to Sand teams, being able to handle LO Excadrill and Tyranitar very well, OHKOing Drill and 2HKOing Tyrantiar with EQ. LandoT also has access to Stealth Rock, freeing up a moveslot for Clefable, and can also run U-Turn to form a nice VoltTurn core with Magnezone. EdgeQuake coverage is very nice, hitting MegaMedi and Charizard Y on the switch. Intimidate also comes in handy, and LandoT is also one of the best answers to Talonflame, one of the Pokemon I outlined in the beginning. However, be wary that Mega Medicham and Charizard Y can easily KO Landorus T, and Keldo becomes a larger problem for your team, relying on Serp and Mag to outspeed and handle it.

Lets move on to your Latias. I only have one qualm with it, and that is the use of Safety Goggles instead of Leftovers or a Life Orb. There isn't really a point in running Safety Goggles when Serperior is able to absorb the Grass-type sleep inducing moves like Spore and Sleep Powder, not to mention the the latter isn't very common, and both users are very easy to work around. Running Leftovers increases Latias' longevity, and allows it to pivot into Mega Charizard Y more consistently, while a Life Orb can be used to increase overall damage output, at the cost of Latias' longevity. Psyshock is also a move that I prefer to Psychic, purely because it does more to CM Clefable should it get out of control and you need to sac Latias. Latias also has the option to run Healing Wish over Roost, allowing it to heal up a weakened or statused Mega Scizor or Serperior. Healing Wish can come in handy more often than you'd expect.

Moving onto Clefable, I only have a minor change to it. Should you heed my suggestion to change Gastrodon to Landorus-T, which I highly recommend (if you take only one change out of this take that change), and choose to run SR on LandoT (something that you should also do), Clefable is left with a free moveslot. I would recommend filing this moveslot with either Thunder Wave or Flamethrower. Thunder Wave is the more utility move, allowing Clefable to outspeed the Pokemon it is currently facing, and can come in handy with the nice 25% chance to immobilize the opponent. Flamethrower can be run to hit opposing Steel-types that wish to stop the CM Clef sweep, but it doesn't have as much utility as Thunder Wave.

Finally, onto your final mon, Serperior. SubSeed Serp is a cool concept that I've heard of, but I've never used and never seen anyone use it. Serperior is a very specialized Pokemon, abusing Contrary and Leaf Storm to boost it's Special Attack to insane levels. Serp is easily the easiest Pokemon to stack stat boosts with. However, running a SubSeed set loses out on it's amazing offensive capabilities. With this in mind, I would recommend replacing Substitute with Dragon Pulse and Leech Seed with Glare. Dragon Pulse allows Serperior to hit Pokemon like Latios, Latias, and Garchomp for SuperEffective damage, as it is able to outspeed these Pokemon thanks to it's nice Speed tier. Glare is a utility move that can come in handy paralyzing an opponent. Glare has saved me numerous times, sacking off Serp to allow a large threat to be paralyzed. Increasing Serperior's offensive prowess gives your team a better matchup against offensive teams, and makes it less passive than the SubSeed set.

Alright I think that's all. I believe I hit everything I wanted to, but if I find out I missed something, I'll notify you and probably ninja edit this post lol. Although I covered a lot of threats to your team with changing Gastrodon to LandoT, Mega Medicham is still a very large issue against your team. LandoT certainly helps, but it does not fare well against variants with Ice Punch, which is all variants. LandoT neuters the Talonflame threat, and changing Latias to hold a passive recovery item like Leftovers greatly increases your team's odds against Zard Y, which is still a large threat to your team. I also tried to keep the focus on SD Mega Scizor, hence the Bug Bite change, using Serperior to support Scizor with it's ability to remove Rotom and other bulky waters. Overall I think I touched base on everything , but please feel free to ask me in this thread or PM me if you have any questions about my suggestions or if you want me to provide calculations to support my changes.

Enjoy n_n

Team with My Changes

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare

 

[Eoin482]

Hey Eoin482 cool team. I can clearly tell that MegaSciz and Mag are part of the "new" wonder trio, but whose the third? (I can't read sometimes lol) I also like your use of Gastrodon, a very underrated Pokemon in the tier. Looking over your team, it gets rocked by Charizard Y, having no switch ins outside of Latias, who can be very easily worn down. Zard Y is able to free spam both Fire Blast/Flamethrower and Solar Beam to demolish a majority of your team. Scizor, Magnezone, Serp, and Gastrodon are OHKOed by Fire Blast and SolarBeam respectively, and Clefable is 2HKOed by Fire Blast. Your best answer to Zard Y is Latias, which is easily worn down after pivoting in to strong attacks. Zard Y also has a positive typing matchup against your team, being able to easily take on MegaSciz and Serp, and it resists Clefable's Moonblast. Pokemon like Mega Medicham and Talonflame are able to put in a considerable amount of work against your team. Mega Medicham is able to either OHKO or 2HKO every member on your team, and escapes the OHKO from Latias' Draco Meteor, allowing it to beat the one shaky check you have to it. Fake Out damage also slowly wears down your team, as you have no solid check to the absolute monster that is the monk. Talonflame, like Zard Y, puts in a large amount of work against your team with it's Fire-type attacks, hitting MegaSciz, Magnezone, and Serp with Flare Blitz. Brave Bird also puts in a decent amount of work against your team, and CB variants have a 50% chance to 2HKO Gastrodon after SR and Leftovers recovery. Clefable is also 2HKOed, and so is Latias. SpDef Talonflame is also able to 1v1 all members of the team except for your AV Magnezone, burning MegaSciz with Will-O and being able to get off priority Roosts to 1v1 Clef, Lati, and Serp, not to mention that Acrobatics also breaks Serp's sub and can easily 2HKO it. Keeping all this in mind, lets jump in to the rate.

First off, your Mega Scizor. While it is only a small change, changing out U-Turn for Bug Bite will be very beneficial to your team. There is no point to setting up SDs only to U-Turn out and loose all the boosts you set up. Bug Bite also gets a nice increase in Base Power, going from Base 60 to Base 90 thanks to Technician. Bug Bite allows Mega Scizor to actually be a set-up sweeper. While it does allow you to be trapped by Magnezone and other trappers, the offensive prowess that Bug Bite provides greatly outweighs the situation where you let MegaSciz get trapped.

Next, onto Magnezone. I don't know if there's something the air, but this is the second time I've encountered an AV Magnezone. Either I'm behind metagame trends (which I hope isn't the case), or AV Mag isn't exactly a thing. Instead of AV, running a Choice Scarf set allows you to check Zard-Y and Mega Medicham to a small extent, as you are able to outspeed and hit them hard with STAB Thunderbolt. Choice Scarf Mag also makes your relatively slow team a tiny bit faster, outpacing base 111s. Running HP Fire over HP Ground is also something that I would suggest, as HP Fire is able to hit Ferrothorn and opposing Scizor harder than HP Ground. However, with the loss of HP Ground, Mag loses it's viability against Heatran, which can be a big threat to Mega Scizor.

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Third, we have Gastrodon. Gastrodon is certainly a neat Pokemon to use in OU, although it can be hard to pull off. In your OP, you mention that Gastrodon is a good check to Sand teams. I have to disagree with this statement, as Gastrodon has a pretty good chance to be 2HKOed by a LO EQ from Excadrill. Gastrodon also does not beat "every" Talonflame. In fact, it can have trouble breaking through the niche SpDef set, and it has a 50% chance of being 2HKOed by CB Brave Bird after a SR switch in. Overall, changing Gastrodon to Landorus-T improves the defensive capabilities of the team, being able to check a plethora of threats like Mega Heracross, Mega Pinsir, Charizard X, Dragonite, Scarf Jirachi, opposing Mega Scizor, Talonflame, and Tyranitar, just to name a few. LandoT is arguably the best check to Sand teams, being able to handle LO Excadrill and Tyranitar very well, OHKOing Drill and 2HKOing Tyrantiar with EQ. LandoT also has access to Stealth Rock, freeing up a moveslot for Clefable, and can also run U-Turn to form a nice VoltTurn core with Magnezone. EdgeQuake coverage is very nice, hitting MegaMedi and Charizard Y on the switch. Intimidate also comes in handy, and LandoT is also one of the best answers to Talonflame, one of the Pokemon I outlined in the beginning. However, be wary that Mega Medicham and Charizard Y can easily KO Landorus T, and Keldo becomes a larger problem for your team, relying on Serp and Mag to outspeed and handle it.

Lets move on to your Latias. I only have one qualm with it, and that is the use of Safety Goggles instead of Leftovers or a Life Orb. There isn't really a point in running Safety Goggles when Serperior is able to absorb the Grass-type sleep inducing moves like Spore and Sleep Powder, not to mention the the latter isn't very common, and both users are very easy to work around. Running Leftovers increases Latias' longevity, and allows it to pivot into Mega Charizard Y more consistently, while a Life Orb can be used to increase overall damage output, at the cost of Latias' longevity. Psyshock is also a move that I prefer to Psychic, purely because it does more to CM Clefable should it get out of control and you need to sac Latias. Latias also has the option to run Healing Wish over Roost, allowing it to heal up a weakened or statused Mega Scizor or Serperior. Healing Wish can come in handy more often than you'd expect.

Moving onto Clefable, I only have a minor change to it. Should you heed my suggestion to change Gastrodon to Landorus-T, which I highly recommend (if you take only one change out of this take that change), and choose to run SR on LandoT (something that you should also do), Clefable is left with a free moveslot. I would recommend filing this moveslot with either Thunder Wave or Flamethrower. Thunder Wave is the more utility move, allowing Clefable to outspeed the Pokemon it is currently facing, and can come in handy with the nice 25% chance to immobilize the opponent. Flamethrower can be run to hit opposing Steel-types that wish to stop the CM Clef sweep, but it doesn't have as much utility as Thunder Wave.

Finally, onto your final mon, Serperior. SubSeed Serp is a cool concept that I've heard of, but I've never used and never seen anyone use it. Serperior is a very specialized Pokemon, abusing Contrary and Leaf Storm to boost it's Special Attack to insane levels. Serp is easily the easiest Pokemon to stack stat boosts with. However, running a SubSeed set loses out on it's amazing offensive capabilities. With this in mind, I would recommend replacing Substitute with Dragon Pulse and Leech Seed with Glare. Dragon Pulse allows Serperior to hit Pokemon like Latios, Latias, and Garchomp for SuperEffective damage, as it is able to outspeed these Pokemon thanks to it's nice Speed tier. Glare is a utility move that can come in handy paralyzing an opponent. Glare has saved me numerous times, sacking off Serp to allow a large threat to be paralyzed. Increasing Serperior's offensive prowess gives your team a better matchup against offensive teams, and makes it less passive than the SubSeed set.

Alright I think that's all. I believe I hit everything I wanted to, but if I find out I missed something, I'll notify you and probably ninja edit this post lol. Although I covered a lot of threats to your team with changing Gastrodon to LandoT, Mega Medicham is still a very large issue against your team. LandoT certainly helps, but it does not fare well against variants with Ice Punch, which is all variants. LandoT neuters the Talonflame threat, and changing Latias to hold a passive recovery item like Leftovers greatly increases your team's odds against Zard Y, which is still a large threat to your team. I also tried to keep the focus on SD Mega Scizor, hence the Bug Bite change, using Serperior to support Scizor with it's ability to remove Rotom and other bulky waters. Overall I think I touched base on everything , but please feel free to ask me in this thread or PM me if you have any questions about my suggestions or if you want me to provide calculations to support my changes.

Enjoy n_n

Team with My Changes

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 16 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Roost

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare

Thanks for the reply! I've tested this team considerably more since the original post and first reply, so I have a sense of where the development of the squad is going. Your comment about Charizard Y is true for one very obvious reason. While Latias in a purely 1v1 scenario is the best Zard Y switch that balance can traditionally field, the combination of Zard Y and t-tar has become very common. This means I cannot safely Roost off damage from an incoming Fire Blast, and makes lati a one or two time switch at best, unless I can deal with Tyranitar beforehand.

Mega Medicham 2hkos the team for sure but this is basically a truism of any team not containing Mega Sableye or a random Cress or something at this point. I have 2 offensive checks to Medi as well as Clef, while Gastrodon lives one hit and forces it to risk a burn and even Mega Scizor can sometimes beat it if it has a little chip. Magnezone loses to it flat out but until they have identified that it isn't scarfed it probably won't stay in on that.

Talonflame hasn't really been an issue for the team at all. Sp def variants are commonly found on stall, which loses at team preview, while CB is checked by the combination of Gastrodon and Magnezone. The really scary variants of Talon like Bulk Up don't carry coverage for Zone either. As for sp def 1v1ing the team Gastrodon isn't 5hkod by Acrobatics so even it tries to SD it should get forced out by pressure from Toxic and Scald.

On to the changes:

Mega Scizor was always at the centre of this team but having a pokemon that could be crippled at team preview by Magnezone was always the issue for me. Since Diancie is one of the best Megas in the tier at the moment, preparation for "Diancie/Zone" teams was crucial. To this end I absolutely must have U-turn on Scizor to avoid being trapped, while still allowing me to use Scizor early game as a switch into the many important pokemon I need it to check. An important property of this team is that it is designed to get rid of checks to boosted Bullet Punch specifically, so if it is played properly the idea is that Scizor doesn't need its bug Stab to be a win con. Furthermore Bug Bite seems to be most commonly used to allow the SD set to kill Rotom-W, but since I have a dedicated Rotom counter it is less important.

AV Magnezone with HP Ground has properties vs opposing Zone which I discussed in the previous post. It's not "a thing" in the sense that it would be pointless over a scarf on any other team, but paired with Scizor it allows me to always switch into and trap opposing Magnezone. The AV has also proved useful in various minor ways like vs Gengar who is a nuisance. Edit: I am making this change anyway because Zard Y + Ttar is a huge pain :b

Gastrodon is the third member of the so called "Wonder Trio", since the three together absolutely menace a list of the most common pokemon on balance. Garchomp, Lando, Clef, Slowbro, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, the Latis, Rotom-W, and Weavile are dealt with extremely well by this combo. However the selling point of Gastrodon specifically on this team is that it is the one consistent Rotom-W counter in the game which prevents Volt Switch. Other counters (like the Serp and Latias on this team) do nothing to stop Rotom forcing Scizor out and Volt Switching into either a T-tar on the Lati or worst case scenario something like Zard on Serp. Landorus-t is of course a superior answer to sand teams, but makes the team horribly weak to electric types like CM Raikou or Mega Mane, while losing the ability to shut down Rotom. It would free up Clef to run something over rocks but I wouldn't even make that change because having a rocker that forces out Sableye helps me 6-0 Sheddy stall. Gastrodon really does beat sp def Talonflame, avoiding the 5hko from sp def sets and doing a clean 40-48% with 0 sp att Scald, which paired with Toxic always lets you 1v1 it, while Lando typically gets burned on the switch in.

Regarding the Lati set, I'm not sure I understand the use of Serp as a sleep absorber. Breloom absolutely murks me if I switch in on an attack, while the other relevant sleepers are Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur. I think the trend of ignoring sleepers as an issue and simply picking fodder mid game is flawed, especially if your designated win con has trouble with these very pokemon, as Scizor does. Latias is mainly in the team as a Keld absorber and hazard control anyway so the lack of immediate power is worth the trade off. I would argue that the description of Mega Venusaur as "very easy to work around" is not true of this team; offensive variants slaughter the other 5 members of the team, so having something that 100% counters its most obvious trick to catch the Latis is very useful. As regards Amoonguss since more of them are carrying Stun Spore now you need another means of dealing with it than sleep fodder, otherwise your Lati will never be a safe switch in.

Obviously regarding Clef I would love to run the yellow colour, and this is the change I am definitely making from the first rater's post, along with a phys def spread to handle Lop much better. Since Landorus doesn't function on this team due to the weakness it gives me to Electric types I do need to keep Rocks on Clef. However I am fine with this as Clef is a fabulous hazard setter against stall since it forces out Sableye and the defogger is rinsed at team preview by Zone. That said T-wave has been chosen over CM, as the team has more trouble dealing with checks to Clef so it is not the best win con to develop usually.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-457458105

This replay should show why dropping CM will make me deeply sad ;-;. 6-0ing Sheddy stall at team preview is a really fun quality, but alas it makes more sense to prep for actually viable teams.

Sub Seed Serp is standard, letting you 1v1 Heatran (unless they Roar) and Chansey. Glare is cool to beat Torn-t, the one true Serp counter who doesn't care about various HP types but I've always found non stab Dragon coverage a bit of a meme. Sub seeds also lets you beat like Specs Kyu B, Zapdos, the Latis, and importantly Unaware Clef who is annoying for this squad if it has fire coverage.


In terms of overall issues I think the lack of a properly quick scarfer has been annoying, and the difficulty in playing around sand offense has nearly cost the team on a couple of occasions. The switch from a standard Clef spread to phys def with T-wave has been a godsend in matchups against Zard X, the source of 3 out of 6 of the original team's losses. I think the Zard Y ttar matchup has forced my hand in terms of running scarfed Zone, which I guess is ok because I still trap Magnezone on the U-turn. It also helps with bird spam since it beats mega pinsir and talon and puts a huge dent in +3 Manaphy.

Building this team has given me a newfound respect for Ghosts, since no matter what changes I made to deal with Gengar I was weak to some set it could run, especially wisp 3 attacks. There was also a pretty funny game early in testing, possibly as low as the 1300s where I was just 6-0d by lead Scarfed Chandelure killing my Gastrodon with Energy Ball. Neither rater has yet even attempted provided a solution for Gengar which I think is proof of how threatening it is.

In general the team has been really successful though and while variants of offense have provided tough games the team has maintained a 100% record of 6-0 vs stall and a very healthy win rate against anything vaguely defined as balance.

 

[Millionsunz]

^
Let dissect this a bit shall we lol

This means I cannot safely Roost off damage from an incoming Fire Blast, and makes lati a one or two time switch at best, unless I can deal with Tyranitar beforehand.

Cough leftovers cough

CB is checked by the combination of Gastrodon and Magnezone.

If I may direct your attention to these lovely calcs right here:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 216-255 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 195-231 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The first calc is with an Adamant CB Talonflame, the most common CB nature you'll probably see thanks to the Azelf Birdspam team. Gastrodon cannot switch into Talonflame. It is 2HKOed. Even Jolly Nature has a 50% chance to 2HKO after a SR switch in. Gastrodon does not check Talonflame as well as you may think. It is even outsped, and only does a max of 86%, which Talonflame can easily Roost off when it forces a switch.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 380-450 (135.2 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 254-300 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The same thing goes with Magnezone. Magnezone may check Talonflame offensively, but it gets slammed by Flare Blitz, even if you encounter a rare Sharp Beak variant. CB Talonflame can easily switch out into a Ground type to block your Thunderbolt or Volt Switch or whatever you want to use, and it absolutely demolishes Magnezone. When I said that Talonflame was able to put lots of work against your team, I meant that your team had no good switches into it. I know you have Pokemon that can beat it offensively, you just don't have very Pokemon that have a positive matchup defensively.

Moving on to Gastrodon, you stated a few Pokemon that Gastrodon beats.

Garchomp

Landorus T

Lando

Landorus T

Clef

Landorus T handles it better than Gastrodon, dishing out more damage.

Heatran

Landorus T

Ferrothorn

Landorus T and Power Whip is a thing

Jirachi

Landorus T

the Latis

Neither LandoT or Gastrodon take these on very well but you have Scizor

The only things that Gastro beats that Lando T doesn't is Weavile, Slowbro, and Rotom-Wash, all Pokemon that you can deal with outside of Gastrodon. LandoT however, checks Talonflame, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Breloom, Charizard X, Dragonite, Mega Heracross, Mega Lopunny, MegaMedi & MegaGross to a certain extent, Mega Pinsir, opposing regular and Mega Scizors, Zapdos, and a whole lot more. Your reasoning is just plain wrong, saying that Landorus makes the team weaker to Electric types (huh?). With 8 SpDef EVs, Landorus is able to take at least one HP Ice from either Mega Manetric or CM Raikou, and retaliate back with EQ, and chances are, you won't be seeing a mono-electric team on the ladder. Raikou cannot touch Mega Scizor or Magnezone either. You're focusing in too much on one certain situation, but not every team in OU runs Rotom-Wash and Tyranitar. Even if your Lati gets trapped and Pursuited, you can go into your handy dandy Landorus T to beat Tyranitar, or better yet, Serp to cover Tyrantiar and Rotom. Furthermore, CM Clef 1v1s and beats Rotom-Wash. Just look at the calcs. Clef also beats the Tyranitar on the Volt Switch as well. Don't focus in on one aspect of battling, especially when team building. It closes your vision off to other threats.

Regarding the Lati set, I'm not sure I understand the use of Serp as a sleep absorber. Breloom absolutely murks me if I switch in on an attack, while the other relevant sleepers are Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur. I think the trend of ignoring sleepers as an issue and simply picking fodder mid game is flawed, especially if your designated win con has trouble with these very pokemon, as Scizor does. Latias is mainly in the team as a Keld absorber and hazard control anyway so the lack of immediate power is worth the trade off. I would argue that the description of Mega Venusaur as "very easy to work around" is not true of this team; offensive variants slaughter the other 5 members of the team, so having something that 100% counters its most obvious trick to catch the Latis is very useful. As regards Amoonguss since more of them are carrying Stun Spore now you need another means of dealing with it than sleep fodder, otherwise your Lati will never be a safe switch in.

Sorry if I said that Serp is a sleep absorber. I meant to say that it can switch in on Spore and Sleep Powder, as it is not affected by those attacks. Breloom murks Serperior even with the SubSeed set, and it murks Gastrodon (but not LandoT), and +2 Technician Mach Punch 2HKOes Scizor. Picking a sleep fodder isn't really a flawed strategy, but I can see why you would think that. With a sleep fodder, Sleep Clause activates so none of your other Pokemon are put to sleep. This can come in handy against Breloom, Amoonguss, and Venusaur, and even Tangrowth. However, running Safety Goggles on Latias is such a situational item, I'd be surprised if it comes in handy every 10 matches. Once again, your focusing too much on one aspect of battling. Offensive Venusaur cannot touch Latias, and usually doesn't carry a sleep move, and is 2HKOed by Psyshock. Amoonguss is 2HKOed as well, and Breloom is OHKOed. Latias enjoys the passive recovery that Leftovers provides a lot more than the very situational niche Safety Goggles can provide.

Obviously regarding Clef I would love to run the yellow colour, and this is the change I am definitely making from the first rater's post, along with a phys def spread to handle Lop much better. Since Landorus doesn't function on this team due to the weakness it gives me to Electric types (huh) I do need to keep Rocks on Clef. However I am fine with this as Clef is a fabulous hazard setter against stall since it forces out Sableye and the defogger is rinsed at team preview by Zone. That said T-wave has been chosen over CM, as the team has more trouble dealing with checks to Clef so it is not the best win con to develop usually.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Never ever ever ever ever ever run 252 Def Clef! Never. Its a bad set, and loses to most Special Attackers like Thundurus. Even your reasoning "to handle Lop much better" is flawed.
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, just running a Bold Nature instead of a Calm one beats Mega Lopunny. Please don't run a fully PhysDef set. Here are some Pokemon that fully PhysDef Clef loses to: Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Mega Diancie, Kyurem Black, TG Manaphy, Rotom-Wash, Starmie, and Volcanion, to name a few. I would also run CM Clef because it is a great back-up win condition, and Magnezone is good at removing the Steel-types that can beat it. Most checks to Clef are beat by Magnezone.

Sub Seed Serp is standard, letting you 1v1 Heatran (unless they Roar) and Chansey. Glare is cool to beat Torn-t, the one true Serp counter who doesn't care about various HP types but I've always found non stab Dragon coverage a bit of a meme. Sub seeds also lets you beat like Specs Kyu B, Zapdos, the Latis, and importantly Unaware Clef who is annoying for this squad if it has fire coverage.

I'm not sure where you do your calcs but I'm pretty sure you are wrong. SubSeed Serp does not beat Heatran 1v1, as SpDef Heatran has a 9% chance to be 4HKOed by Leaf Storm at +6, and Lava Plume breaks your Sub. Chansey I can see though, but you have pokemon like Scizor and LandoT who can beat Chansey as well. Non-STAB Dragon coverage is not a meme lol, it comes in handy against Lati's and can put in major work at +2, +4, or +6. Specs Kyurem B is not beaten by Serp. In no universe is it ever. Zapdos can easily Heat Wave (which is a common move on Zapdos) to break your Sub and force you down to 24% or whatever. Dragon Pulse beats the Latis, not SubSeed. (252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 289-341 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO ; +4 252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 356-420 (119 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO [After 2 Leaf Storms Serp OHKOes Latios]). Unaware Clef never runs Fire coverage, usually running Moonblast, Heal Bell, Softboiled/Wish, and Protect/Thunder Wave, allowing your Mega Scizor to beat it.

Neither rater has yet even attempted provided a solution for Gengar which I think is proof of how threatening it is.

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 142-168 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 140-166 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 144-171 (55.5 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Your Mega Scizor is 3HKOed by LO Gengar and Bullet Punch is a 2HKO. Gengar may threaten most of your team, but not Mega Scizor. You can even Roost stall it out as all of it's attacks do under 50%. It is not as big of a threat as you make it out to be, although I agree it can be hard to handle should Scizor get too weak. Neither rater has provides a solution for Gengar because it is not a huge problem.

Hopefully I argued my changes well enough so you can see why they heavily improve the team lol. Please feel free to reply if you have any other concerns that I can work out.

 

[Eoin482]

^
Let dissect this a bit shall we lol

Cough leftovers cough

If I may direct your attention to these lovely calcs right here:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 216-255 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 195-231 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The first calc is with an Adamant CB Talonflame, the most common CB nature you'll probably see thanks to the Azelf Birdspam team. Gastrodon cannot switch into Talonflame. It is 2HKOed. Even Jolly Nature has a 50% chance to 2HKO after a SR switch in. Gastrodon does not check Talonflame as well as you may think. It is even outsped, and only does a max of 86%, which Talonflame can easily Roost off when it forces a switch.

252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 380-450 (135.2 - 160.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 254-300 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The same thing goes with Magnezone. Magnezone may check Talonflame offensively, but it gets slammed by Flare Blitz, even if you encounter a rare Sharp Beak variant. CB Talonflame can easily switch out into a Ground type to block your Thunderbolt or Volt Switch or whatever you want to use, and it absolutely demolishes Magnezone. When I said that Talonflame was able to put lots of work against your team, I meant that your team had no good switches into it. I know you have Pokemon that can beat it offensively, you just don't have very Pokemon that have a positive matchup defensively.

Moving on to Gastrodon, you stated a few Pokemon that Gastrodon beats.

Landorus T

Landorus T

Landorus T handles it better than Gastrodon, dishing out more damage.

Landorus T

Landorus T and Power Whip is a thing

Landorus T

Neither LandoT or Gastrodon take these on very well but you have Scizor

The only things that Gastro beats that Lando T doesn't is Weavile, Slowbro, and Rotom-Wash, all Pokemon that you can deal with outside of Gastrodon. LandoT however, checks Talonflame, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Breloom, Charizard X, Dragonite, Mega Heracross, Mega Lopunny, MegaMedi & MegaGross to a certain extent, Mega Pinsir, opposing regular and Mega Scizors, Zapdos, and a whole lot more. Your reasoning is just plain wrong, saying that Landorus makes the team weaker to Electric types (huh?). With 8 SpDef EVs, Landorus is able to take at least one HP Ice from either Mega Manetric or CM Raikou, and retaliate back with EQ, and chances are, you won't be seeing a mono-electric team on the ladder. Raikou cannot touch Mega Scizor or Magnezone either. You're focusing in too much on one certain situation, but not every team in OU runs Rotom-Wash and Tyranitar. Even if your Lati gets trapped and Pursuited, you can go into your handy dandy Landorus T to beat Tyranitar, or better yet, Serp to cover Tyrantiar and Rotom. Furthermore, CM Clef 1v1s and beats Rotom-Wash. Just look at the calcs. Clef also beats the Tyranitar on the Volt Switch as well. Don't focus in on one aspect of battling, especially when team building. It closes your vision off to other threats.

Sorry if I said that Serp is a sleep absorber. I meant to say that it can switch in on Spore and Sleep Powder, as it is not affected by those attacks. Breloom murks Serperior even with the SubSeed set, and it murks Gastrodon (but not LandoT), and +2 Technician Mach Punch 2HKOes Scizor. Picking a sleep fodder isn't really a flawed strategy, but I can see why you would think that. With a sleep fodder, Sleep Clause activates so none of your other Pokemon are put to sleep. This can come in handy against Breloom, Amoonguss, and Venusaur, and even Tangrowth. However, running Safety Goggles on Latias is such a situational item, I'd be surprised if it comes in handy every 10 matches. Once again, your focusing too much on one aspect of battling. Offensive Venusaur cannot touch Latias, and usually doesn't carry a sleep move, and is 2HKOed by Psyshock. Amoonguss is 2HKOed as well, and Breloom is OHKOed. Latias enjoys the passive recovery that Leftovers provides a lot more than the very situational niche Safety Goggles can provide.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Never ever ever ever ever ever run 252 Def Clef! Never. Its a bad set, and loses to most Special Attackers like Thundurus. Even your reasoning "to handle Lop much better" is flawed.
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Clefable: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
As you can see, just running a Bold Nature instead of a Calm one beats Mega Lopunny. Please don't run a fully PhysDef set. Here are some Pokemon that fully PhysDef Clef loses to: Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Mega Diancie, Kyurem Black, TG Manaphy, Rotom-Wash, Starmie, and Volcanion, to name a few. I would also run CM Clef because it is a great back-up win condition, and Magnezone is good at removing the Steel-types that can beat it. Most checks to Clef are beat by Magnezone.

I'm not sure where you do your calcs but I'm pretty sure you are wrong. SubSeed Serp does not beat Heatran 1v1, as SpDef Heatran has a 9% chance to be 4HKOed by Leaf Storm at +6, and Lava Plume breaks your Sub. Chansey I can see though, but you have pokemon like Scizor and LandoT who can beat Chansey as well. Non-STAB Dragon coverage is not a meme lol, it comes in handy against Lati's and can put in major work at +2, +4, or +6. Specs Kyurem B is not beaten by Serp. In no universe is it ever. Zapdos can easily Heat Wave (which is a common move on Zapdos) to break your Sub and force you down to 24% or whatever. Dragon Pulse beats the Latis, not SubSeed. (252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 289-341 (94.7 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO ; +4 252 SpA Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 356-420 (119 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO [After 2 Leaf Storms Serp OHKOes Latios]). Unaware Clef never runs Fire coverage, usually running Moonblast, Heal Bell, Softboiled/Wish, and Protect/Thunder Wave, allowing your Mega Scizor to beat it.



252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 142-168 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 140-166 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 144-171 (55.5 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Your Mega Scizor is 3HKOed by LO Gengar and Bullet Punch is a 2HKO. Gengar may threaten most of your team, but not Mega Scizor. You can even Roost stall it out as all of it's attacks do under 50%. It is not as big of a threat as you make it out to be, although I agree it can be hard to handle should Scizor get too weak. Neither rater has provides a solution for Gengar because it is not a huge problem.

Hopefully I argued my changes well enough so you can see why they heavily improve the team lol. Please feel free to reply if you have any other concerns that I can work out.

Ok there are a few issues that are worth addressing in the further development of the team but a few things seem to have been lost in the translation of my first response.

Running Leftovers Lati gives me probably 1 extra switch into Char Y but it doesn't solve the problem that I immediately need to double on the hypothetical T-tar switch, an outrageously predictable play, and generally risk free for my opponent to predict since Lati can't Ohko Zard. As I referred to however, I am changing the Magnezone set to a Choice Scarfer, since I can still trap opposing Magnezone with Scizor's U-turn; it just means I have to be careful switching into specs HP Fire if rocks are up.

Banded Talonflame is in general a pretty bad pokemon outside of one team archetype that mostly sees use lower down the ladder. Against that team I can make use of the volt-turn core to get my rocker in safely after killing Azelf, and can trap Excadrill when it tries to spin. Since I have checks for Pinsir (now that zone is scarfed), Dragonite and Manaphy I can afford to go into Gastrodon on Talonflame's Brave bird and if I die to the rolls, then so be it. I can now go Magnezone and threaten it out into something else that doesn't want to take the hit, or they can sack Talonflame. Arguably there could be variants of the bird spam team that have better switch ins to Magnezone after Drill has been trapped and killed but I have yet to see them.

"Talonflame can easily switch out into a Ground type to block your Thunderbolt or Volt Switch or whatever you want to use", as I said the only team that makes good use of Banded Talon is extreme HO, the most common variant of which has its only ground type trapped when it is inevitably forced to spin.

You misinterpreted the list of pokemon that I said Gastrodon beats; it does not go near Clefable. What I was referring to were the pokemon beaten by the trio of Mega Scizor, Magnezone, and Gastrodon. Landorus-T also doesn't switch into Heatran and invites hazard stack from Ferrothorn, while Landorus T vs Landorus T is not a matchup won by anybody. In any case opposing Landorus are one of the pokemon used as setup fodder for Mega Scizor, barring Earth Plate lures.


"The only things that Gastro beats that Lando T doesn't is Weavile, Slowbro, and Rotom-Wash, all Pokemon that you can deal with outside of Gastrodon."
I'm not sure this point is getting across but the other pokemon that "deal" with Rotom-w do not block it from stealing momentum with Volt-Switch: I want that to not happen.

Swapping Lando in for Gastrodon does make the team much weaker to Electric types. Rotom for the reasons stated above becomes a nuisance. Mega Mane only needs to wear down Lati and Clef a bit and it can start killing all its switch ins.

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

If Raikou sets up a CM the situation is even worse. Gastrodon can flat out hard wall these pokemon for the entire game if that is the job I need it to do. Opposing Magnezone, Thundurus-T, Zapdos, basically anything bar the tech Galvantula or Fabio are really well dealt with by Gastro. Raikou 1v1s bulky U-turn Mega Scizor; I can U-turn twice on it and sack pokemon in between to stop it sweeping but even then I need fabulous rolls to kill it with 2, and to live 2 boosted T-bolts.

Your argument that Clef is a safe answer to Rotom on the Volt switch is subject to the same arguments as Lati and Serp. Rotom can still put the team under incredible pressure by allowing something that beats Clef and is a threat to the team, like LO Exca. I wasn't focusing on tyranitar specifically when I made this argument, I was simply using it as an example of a time that using Latias to counter Rotom could work out badly.

Regarding Sleep fodder, I can put forward the following argument for Safety Goggles. I will concede that this item only has usefulness once every certain number of matches. However, the advantage it gives you in these particular games, that of not being reduced to 5 pokemon simply because your opponent has a sleeper, is much more tangible than the benefits of a Life Orb. This is an advantage that obviously cannot be argued by damage calcs, it is something you would need to test in various game scenarios, but thus far I haven't missed the extra power from a Life Orb and the lure that safety goggles provides has been consistently useful in games against Breloom, Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur. Obviously sleep clause exists but there are simply some games when you need your whole team to win, not just 5 of them. Regarding Venusaur the hypothetical set that would rip this team apart (Sleep Powder 3 attacks), may not exist but at team preview I cannot safely rule out either HP Fire or Sleep Powder, so unless I want to stunt by switching from Scizor into Serp I cannot safely scout for both.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-461180916

This game vs an opponent in the 1900s was lost because on the last turn his Lopunny was revealed to be adamant (smh), thus 2hkoing my Scizor spread. I immediately changed Clef to a phys def spread so this abomination of a result would not be repeated. Thundurus isn't that much of a threat since I have Gastrodon, as well as a couple of offensive checks, particularly with the change to scarfed Zone. Obviously your calc shows it doesn't necessarily need max defense to beat Lopunny but we cannot always assume every defensive thing can avoid taking some chip damage, and the extra EVs make a healthy difference in the calc.

Of the list of things you put as pokemon that would beat Clef with a max defense spread, most of them do this by simply changing the nature as you suggest anyway, while some do not care what spread Clef is running:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Furthermore the only pokemon on that list which is a threat to the rest of the team is LO Torn, who 2hkos the standard spread with a Bold nature anyway.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the standard Serperior, if Heatran switches in on a Substitute you'll see what I mean. Obviously the fact that it beats Chansey is a bit moot because this team heavily punishes Chansey teams, but dragon coverage doesn't do anything that Sub Seeds doesn't since if Latios for example comes in on a Leaf Storm, you can click Sub until it is in range of +2 Leaf Storm, if it clicks Draco on the first turn you also get to simply fire off the second Leaf Storm without a Sub, but if they are smart and spam Psyshock you wait until they are either in range (kill them) or recover (click Leech Seed and now you can sub indefinitely). Even in cases where the thing in front of Serperior is a huge threat, like Zard X, the ability to cycle through Sub and Leech Seed allows you to 1v1 it without caring if it sets up to +6. Dragon Pulse would be a decent move for hitting say an unboosted Zard X that has killed something but it only does about 48%.

Wisp Gengar was the problem I was referring to. Wisp 3 attacks specifically is a real pain and I literally cannot find a solid counter to this one set that works on balance. AV Torn-T looks like the best but if it switches in on a Wisp Knock off becomes a 3hko and I need to hit Hurricanes.

Edit: Sub Seed Serp beats Specs Kyurem exactly 90% of the time if it switches in on a Sub. The 10% is when you miss Leech Seed. Because of Kyu's huge 125 HP stat you get an endless cycle of Sub Seed until they are in range of Leaf Storm or they roost and give you another boost. Switching non Scarfed Kyu B into Serp is an excellent way to get swept.