I disagree for Stoutland going to B+ because it is dependent from sandstorm to be a good revenge killer; its Normal STAB is mediocre and easily walled; it does not have any resistances, making it rather vulnerable to priority despite being bulky; there are some Pokémon very capable of walling him if they switch on the right move (they generally only fear one move that Stoutland may be carrying), with some of them even being capable of switching on every move that Stoutland carries (I will bold those): Jirachi, Scizor, Forretress, Ferrothorn (fears Superpower), Skarmory (fears Wild Charge), physically defensive Hippowdon, and even some lesser Pokémon like Sableye and Metagross. Finally, there are arguably better options like Terrakion and Landorus.Ill make some nominations that i feel are deserving:
Stoutland B->B+: An excellente revenge killer for sand teams with great bulk and
coverage. Its speed under sandstorm allows it to revenge kill even scarfers (except terrakion/keldeo/latios).
Breloom A->A+: Spore, 130 atk, technician stab bullet seed and mach punch, swords dance. Not much need to be said. Breloom can effectively remove from play one pokemon on your opponent team, cripple another then switch out and revenge kill shit midgame with mach punch. Late game when its counters are removed (and there arent many) it can just setup swords dance and destroy everything. A top tier threat that should never be understimated. If your team lacks a safe switch in for this thing youre going to have a hard time.
Gyarados A-->A: Great bulk, key resistances to bug, fighting, steel, water and an immunity to ground, moxie, dragon dance, water stab. All of these features combined make gyarados one of the best setup sweepers in the game. It can setup on the likes of sp def jirachi, scizor, forretress, tentacruel, gastrodon, lucario, LANDORUS, some KELDEO among others and wreck havoc after just one dragon dance. Moxie only makes it better to ensure the opponent cant afford to sack anything to bring a revenge killer safely.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 302-356 (88.04 - 103.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth RockI'd disagree with the motion to put bisharp in C. Bisharp is REALLY weak to priority(Mach Punch) and becomes set up fodder for mons like SubCM Latias who can set up a substitute on Sucker Punch and proceed to CM while Bisharp fails repeatedly. The issue with Bisharp is that Sucker Punch is easily predicted and taken advantage of while any other Dark-type STAB like Night Slash is of no use because Bisharp is too slow.
Worse, most OU Dragons can take care of Bisharp with coverage easily: Salamence OHKOes with Fire Blast, as does Garchomp with Earthquake. Kyurem gets around it with Earth Power while Latias and Latios OHKO with HP Fire.
The tipping point is that the 3 most dangerous mons in OU - Keldeo, Landorus and Scizor all hands down beat Bisharp.
So no, Bisharp should stay D-Rank. Tyranitar does a much better job as a defensive Dark-type and as an offensive one as well.
Player X returned Latios and sent out Breloom/any fighting typeLatios is outright ohkoed by sucker punch while sub calm latias is koed by either night slash or iron head depending of your choice for the fourth slot.
What is the appropriate action to take in response to a user who continues to post despite claiming that they're going to leave? You've had your opinion countered by a dozens of players who are far better than you are, and have a accurate idea of the game balance state at the moment. I won't be tolerating your arrogance or colossal Vaporeon fanboyism any longer. In other words, I want you to get the hell out of my thread and if I catch you posting here again I'll infract you.Jamark said:Note: !! At this point all the comments are kicking a dead horse and repeating things said about thirdy times already. Vaporeon doesn't deserve B rank based on my experience and the players I spectated. But if you feel that it should stay C rank for whatever reason. So be it. I don't really care anymore. This ou ranking is already so flawed. The only relevant rank I agree with is A+ and S anyway. I'm not coming back to this meaningless thread that even OU top players don't even visit. I'm done.
I actually completely agree with this. I feel that Bisharp is really not getting the use it deserves. Bisharp seems exactly where the C Rank description came from. The person that was saying he doesnt deserve it because he is beaten by S Rank pokemon and can not take a Mach Punch. Exactly, that is why he belongs in C. No shit it will lose to S Rank mons, that is why they are S Rank. Also, Mach Punch weak would count as a crippling flaw. Let us say you partner it with Gengar or something. Bisharp does great in a situation like this. You have Bisharp and your opponent sends out Breloom, you switch to Gengar and then they switch to Latios. Then Latios will try to kill you and Bisharp can come in and get the free Swords Dance. Also, not being Stealth Rock weak and being Steel type is always a good thing.I was looking through this list, and I saw Bisharp in D! I've been using him on my recent team, and I can say he deserves better than D-rank. I'd say he's at least C-rank. Bisharp has several niches that it can execute well if you play well with it. It's biggest drawback is that it is heavily reliant on prediction, but a good player can use Bisharp to its fullest extent. Bisharp's pros:
-Steel typing with excellent defenses. Can take several Outrages before defeating the opposing dragon with....
-STAB Sucker Punch. After a Swords Dance, Sucker Punch KO's everything in the tier that attacks it and doesn't resist it. Again, pretty prediction-reliant, but very powerful.
-Two immunities. These are key to setting up a Bisharp sweep. Alakazam threathening your Keldeo? Switch in Bisharp. One should play aggressive with Bisharp. It can beat most Focus Blast users with correct prediction and Sucker Punch if you switch in at the right time.
-Defiant. A smaller pro, but definitely wins games. People tend to forget about defiant, and carelessly send in Landorus-T or Gyarados, only for you to get an attack boost.
To end my plea, I don't say Bisharp deserves A-rank. I merely say it should be in C, not in D. Some games, it does nothing for your team, but sometimes, it wins you the game.
252+ SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 221-260 (59.89 - 70.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (subroost, and watch out for earth power while you roost)But these Pokemon should really be staples. Zapdos is a stall staple due to its ability to reliably beat Landorus. Amoonguss is again a really great pokemon due to its ability to counter Keldeo and its access to Spore AND Regenerator (amazing). I don't think Pokemon should be lowered because they are rarely seen, as this is a viability thread. Zapdos and Amoonguss are very viable Pokemon. That being said, I think C Rank could do with a cleanup. Lots of these pokemon aren't really viable at all, they just have a very slim niche.
What are you doing bro252+ SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 221-260 (59.89 - 70.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (subroost, and watch out for earth power while you roost)
252+ SpA Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 221-260 (68.63 - 80.74%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (offensive lo)
Zapdos doesn't beat landorus reliably.
Zapdos might as well go down to B-, it never really worked for me, I've tried the offensive LO set and it's just too slow and prone to being revenge killed.
Please....please do this. I will get on my knees and beg. I'm really hating to see this wonderful thread slowly becoming tarnished by people who are only bumping Pokemon because they just like the Pokemon. If that was the case, I would nominate Sceptile to S-rank.What is the appropriate action to take in response to a user who continues to post despite claiming that they're going to leave? You've had your opinion countered by a dozens of players who are far better than you are, and have a accurate idea of the game balance state at the moment. I won't be tolerating your arrogance or colossal Vaporeon fanboyism any longer. In other words, I want you to get the hell out of my thread and if I catch you posting here again I'll infract you.
I'm seriously considering adding blacklist system to this thread.
I shall be willing to provide you oral pleasure if you do that.I'm seriously considering adding blacklist system to this thread.
Just one question: why would you run Jolly Bisharp? He's slow as hell anyway, and the extra speed isn't too important since most of your work is coming from priority. Unless you were just giving an example, I wouldn't see why you wouldn't just use Adamant.Bisharp is good enough for C Rank. I know this may seem strange, but it is actually a very good Pokemon. Something definitely interesting. I have found it very useful on Rain teams and how it absolutely destroys those bulky Landorus-T if it gets a Swords Dance prior. With Defiant on its side Intimidate can only help it. A +3 Jolly Life Orb Iron Head does 95.39 - 112.46% to standard 200 HP 244 Def Landorus-T on average, of course that's assuming that he Swords Danced prior. But even then, a +1 Life Orb Iron Head on the switch does 57.18 - 67.75%, a clean 2HKO. This leaves Bisharp at a very favorable position, and I find it is definitely a very strong threat.
I really do like Bisharp, it is something that is definitely unique in the metagame and does have some redeeming qualities. Although it may not be very bulky and be completely walled to death for the most part by Keldeo, it can still function well in the metagame. Bisharp does have a pretty cool niche, and I believe it does belong in the C Rank.