Serious The Politics Thread

aren't you contradicting yourself? If I say "this crime shouldn't be focused on when other crimes are there", it's a statement that can be reverted. Again, it's a slippery slope that you're on

Thats giving him the benefit of the doubt that him and other remaining Trump supporters don't deserve. They were loud in their demand for Hillary and Joe Bidens son to be put in jail, now that judiciary is turning against Trump they conveniently come up with the "its authoritarian to indict and send political opponents to prison" card, plain hypocrisy and nothing else.
 

BIG ASHLEY

low like a basement
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is he actually going to prison or is that just an extrapolation made in misc. funny jokes i've seen? haven't seen a clear explanation.
 
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Why prosecute any crimes? What is the point of laws if we should not enforce them?
The purpose of law in a neoliberal society is de facto to protect corporate interests, nothing more. There's a reason anti-trust laws are almost never enforced. There's a reason if you steal $250 in merchandise, you can be hit with a felony, but if your employer steals $2.5M from his employees via wage theft, it's at worst a fine and usually not even that. It's not even corruption, really, it's the system working exactly how it was designed to work; it was never designed to work for you, unless you happen to be the owner of a profitable business or someone with political clout.

Trump finally being held to account for flagrantly violating the law for his own personal benefit shouldn't be an earth-shaking precedent-setting unheard-of event, in fact it should be happening a lot more. It's a step in the right direction, for sure, but if the rule of law is to actually work in any equitable way, every CEO, career shareholder, and venture capitalist should fear it as much as the working class everyman does. People need to be going to prison for wage theft.

Que the based Anatole France quote;

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets, and stealing loaves of bread."
 

Celever

the bear becomes the ringleader
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is he actually going to prison or is that just an extrapolation made in misc. funny jokes i've seen? haven't seen a clear explanation.
He can appeal the case which will take him past the point of the next election, if he wins that election and becomes the president then he will pardon himself of the crimes and will not go to prison.

If he loses the election he “will” but he’ll probably be in a very low security relaxed prison because of the above — he’s a rich white man and especially a public figure / celebrity. He’s not gonna be working for the American prison industrial complex any time soon.
 
He can appeal the case which will take him past the point of the next election, if he wins that election and becomes the president then he will pardon himself of the crimes and will not go to prison.
No, he cannot pardon himself for state crimes. He will also assuredly lose this appeal. This show of him resisting is just a bunch of bluster for his brand. These crimes will stick.

The fact that this is even a discussion is such an indictment on America right now.

is he actually going to prison or is that just an extrapolation made in misc. funny jokes i've seen? haven't seen a clear explanation.
It’s possible. I was skeptical but some legal analysts say prison is appropriate for the amount of crimes and lack of remorse he has shown throughout the process. They just may throw the book at him.
 

Chou Toshio

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna154945

Oh damn…

Well played Mr. President— and FLAWLESS timing, on the heal of Trump eating dirt.

As I said, if Biden can just SHOW that it LOOKS, eeeeeven REMOTELY like he could be the one to lead us out of this hell hole, the whole board can be flipped over.


Mainstream Media and centrists are READY for it too.

Don’t you dare fumble this one Biden— this is the play that seals the deal.
 
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EU elections are coming and a lot of people are (reasonably) scared of far right parties gaining power

Honestly they are unable to keep themselves together, their pimp is busy with other things, so their funds are drying out, and they've proven time and time again that they're unable to remain in power. They come in, manage a couple of years, steal some funds, fuck up national interests and legislate ineffectively (being unable to represent their own interests oftentimes), and they leave for one reason or another

I think they're so dependent on their status as underdogs, opposition parties that they are simply unable to be successful once they win elections. Their ideology also isn't quite clear, being far right can have many different forms and when I look at the biggest far right figures in my country (Hofer and Kickl), they're very different in approach. And they fucking hate each other, even if they win parliament elections later this year, inner conflicts tearing them apart are likely

The most successful far right party was probably PiS and they aren't sponsored by Russia and are rather religious extremists than just far right opportunists like almost every other far right party in Europe

And recently, they kinda split all the time. FPÖ used to be the only far right Austrian party, now every regional and some national elections have competing parties that are essentially just like the FPÖ but are seperate for some reason. I don't know why they cannibalize each other so much, but they do so more than centrist or left-wing parties

I am just waiting for AfD to win German parliament elections and going in coalition with this new islamist party. I will eat my own words if this won't happen once the conditions for it are met. They are waaaaaay too similar and have way to overlapping voterbases for that to not happen
 
South Africa just had its general election and ANC didn't get enough percentage of the votes to rule alone for the first time since the end of Apartheid and Nelson Mandelas presidency. Now they may have to form a coalition with right-liberal white majority "Democratic Alliance", other potential options for coalition are the left populist EFF (Economic Freedom Fighters) who separated from ANC some years ago and corruption indicted Jacob Zumas new party MK. The latter would probably be the worst option of all for South Africa tho while a coalition with the white liberal party may not only turn away older ANC voters but also change policy towards Israel-Palestine (more Israel friendly).
 
South Africa just had its general election and ANC didn't get enough percentage of the votes to rule alone for the first time since the end of Apartheid and Nelson Mandelas presidency. Now they may have to form a coalition with right-liberal white majority "Democratic Alliance", other potential options for coalition are the left populist EFF (Economic Freedom Fighters) who separated from ANC some years ago and corruption indicted Jacob Zumas new party MK. The latter would probably be the worst option of all for South Africa tho while a coalition with the white liberal party may not only turn away older ANC voters but also change policy towards Israel-Palestine (more Israel friendly).
the ANC robbed South Africa of billions upon billions, and they've been corrupt even when Mandela was still alive. SA doesn't have a reliable infrastructure and crime has been rising consistently. The response from the ANC to constant blackouts was declaring the term blackout as racist and rebranding it as load shedding. That's a bad joke

A coalition with liberals wouldn't be great but it'd be a whole lot better than having an immensly corrupt party rule without repercussion that ultimately harmed every demographic group through never really bringing a meritocratic concept. It's great that Apartheid's gone, but what's the point if you still have a society divided by ANC authorities and regular people. That's kinda just another form of Apartheid, that's arguably worse, because the priviledged group has become much more concentrated and is genuinenly malicious

I have both white and black South African friends and you'd never hear two "opposed" demographic group from the same country agree on so much, simply based on how the ANC brought South Africa from a functioning country to a state similar to Zimbabwe. It doesn't even make sense when you look at how super well Namibia and Botswana are doing (not even just for global south standards, these countries are doing really well in general) despite them having much worse starting conditions.
 
I'll be voting for Trump and none of this impacts my decision for the exact reasons you mentioned.
This trail was a waste of resources for New York, all those tax payer funded resources such as extra cops for blocking off streets around Trump tower and the court house, prosucutors and the DA himself should have been deployed to real problems. Even democrats including the mayor are sick of Alvin Bragg who is responsible for rise in crime
I cannot believe Alvin Bragg made Trump pay off a porn star and lie about it in campaign finance disclosures, who will stop this man???
 
https://fightbacknews.org/articles/...forces-and-components-are-united-in-demanding

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said:
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine confirmed that our people, with all their forces and components, are united in demanding the cessation of aggression and that no deal or proposal has any value if it assumes the continuation of the genocide war or maneuvers to allow the occupation to continue its crimes. The resistance forces are entrusted with the demands of our people.

The Popular Front emphasized that US President Joe Biden is a main partner in the aggression, genocide war, and war crimes against our people, and cannot be trusted in what he offers. He cannot be considered a mediator as he is a principal party in the war against our people.

The Front stated that the position on any proposal or negotiation path depends on its content regarding a complete cessation of aggression against our people, the withdrawal of the occupation, the lifting of the siege, and reconstruction.

The Front called on all concerned parties, including governments and mediators, to pressure the American administration, and stressed its demand for all forces in solidarity with our people to escalate the struggle and protest against the forces of aggression, primarily the United States of America.
(emphasis mine)
 
PFLP lost its credibility with secularists across the ME as soon as it started collaborating with Hamas, and it hasn't had credibility in over two decades either in Gaza or outside it. Literally the only people who still take them seriously are western boomer communists (which is why it's in FightBack i guess lol). There isn't really much reason to listen to people that today functionally act as an Israeli proxy for undermining Palestine's secular government anyways.


EU elections are coming and a lot of people are (reasonably) scared of far right parties gaining power

Honestly they are unable to keep themselves together, their pimp is busy with other things, so their funds are drying out, and they've proven time and time again that they're unable to remain in power. They come in, manage a couple of years, steal some funds, fuck up national interests and legislate ineffectively (being unable to represent their own interests oftentimes), and they leave for one reason or another

I think they're so dependent on their status as underdogs, opposition parties that they are simply unable to be successful once they win elections. Their ideology also isn't quite clear, being far right can have many different forms and when I look at the biggest far right figures in my country (Hofer and Kickl), they're very different in approach. And they fucking hate each other, even if they win parliament elections later this year, inner conflicts tearing them apart are likely

The most successful far right party was probably PiS and they aren't sponsored by Russia and are rather religious extremists than just far right opportunists like almost every other far right party in Europe

And recently, they kinda split all the time. FPÖ used to be the only far right Austrian party, now every regional and some national elections have competing parties that are essentially just like the FPÖ but are seperate for some reason. I don't know why they cannibalize each other so much, but they do so more than centrist or left-wing parties

I am just waiting for AfD to win German parliament elections and going in coalition with this new islamist party. I will eat my own words if this won't happen once the conditions for it are met. They are waaaaaay too similar and have way to overlapping voterbases for that to not happen
The only reason the far-right is fracturing is because they are jockeying for power in different and conflicting cultural contexts. If Marine Le Pen became the President of France, she would be restoring RN's ties to the AfD. At their core, these are Nazi parties desperate to convince the public they are anything but. I would also pause at thinking the Russian government is too busy to provide support to entities in Germany and Austria. Kickl's continued leadership of the FPO suggests they still have functional control over the domestic far-right. I'm sure I don't need to explain Ibizagate to you, but for the benefit of everyone else, I'll just say that FPO ministers were implicated in a corruption sting in which positive Russian media coverage of the FPO and Kurz coalition government would be provided in return for government contracts. Kickl was responsible for trying to place a man named Goldgruber in charge of investigating the scandal, despite the man's known connections to the pro-Russian neo-Nazi organisation Generation Identity.

Although Raiffeisen Bank is supposedly "making steps" to distance itself from Russia, it's bullshit, and the fact Austrian officials are still trying to use its relationships as leverage for concessions from Ukraine is all the evidence anyone should need for that. I'm sure you might not appreciate this assessment, but Austria is basically a mafia state like Russia, Cyprus, Mexico, Turkey, and more. RBI is basically a mafia bank, and the fact it hasn't been cut off from SWIFT and had its assets seized by Kleptocapture is just yet more poor judgment from the Biden administration that'll backfire on US interests in the long term.

EDIT: One more thing I should add is that PiS absolutely is pro-Russian and had known intelligence assets like Piskorski operating in the outskirts of the party. Actually, just a couple years ago his ex-wife and PiS councillor Ewa Bartosiewicz was the one who put him in the Agata Duda detail. The issue for PiS right now is that Russia is not popular in Poland and that the calculus for providing Moscow cover has shifted dramatically with the war, something we're also seeing with the British Tories under the Johnson premiership, the FDI in Italy under Meloni, the Likud, the Canadian Tories (coughLeslynLewiscough), elements of the Republican Party, and many, many more. This isn't just in the West either, China, Egypt, South Africa and Turkey have been very annoyed by the macroeconomic effects of the war, although the former and lattermost have seen their defence sectors able to adapt to meet the needs of the combatants (moreso Turkey though). Historians are going to view the secondary invasion of Ukraine as a foreign policy disaster of immense proportions, one that saw many of the Kremlin's allies in Europe and elsewhere forced to abandon it in favour of a "moderate" position mediating between the four major powers.
 
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https://www.reuters.com/world/india...oth-modi-rahul-gandhi-eye-victory-2024-06-01/

Yeah India democracy is a lost cause, the muslim and immigrant despising BJP + rest of NDA did even better than expected and have ~2/3 of lower parliament seats, so they can do big changes to the constitution now. But certain hindu nationalist apologists (who also love Israel what a coincidence) in another forum will call me "hinduphobe again" because of course.
 
is he actually going to prison or is that just an extrapolation made in misc. funny jokes i've seen? haven't seen a clear explanation.
Trump's lawyers are going to appeal immediately, and even if he's found guilty a second time (which he probably will) being a convicted felon doesn't actually bar him from running. He's not going to prison for at least 2 or 3 years, and the results won't affect the election because diehard trump supporters will rally behind him anyways and most people who would be swung to Biden would have wound up switching sides once all the bullshit he's pulled the past 8 years piles up and collapses.
 
most people who would be swung to Biden would have wound up switching sides once all the bullshit he's pulled the past 8 years piles up and collapses.
This isn't really how it works. The people who win elections aren't Republicans or Democrats... their votes are already pretty much set, maybe even for life. The election winners are independents. Not strictly people who identify as independent, literal people who haven't yet had their political opinion swayed enough to say who they support.

Trump being found guilty and becoming an actual undeniable felon is 100% going to push some people away from the Republican party. No one is born with political views, these are things that we pick up as we grow, and a huge amount of who we become is influenced by our surroundings. Trump facing fucking jail time absolutely will be the deciding factor for a lot of people. Maybe it will only move the needle a few percentage points, or a fraction of a percent. But this could be enough to win Biden some swing states.

Remember 11 days before the 2016 election the FBI found more of "Hillary's emails" and despite later confirming that nothing bad was found, the public backlash very well might have been the straw that broke the camel's back that cost her the election.

Trump is a felon who may very well go to jail. This will effect election results 100%. Enough to lose him the election? Hopefully lol.
 
This isn't really how it works. The people who win elections aren't Republicans or Democrats... their votes are already pretty much set, maybe even for life. The election winners are independents. Not strictly people who identify as independent, literal people who haven't yet had their political opinion swayed enough to say who they support.

Trump being found guilty and becoming an actual undeniable felon is 100% going to push some people away from the Republican party. No one is born with political views, these are things that we pick up as we grow, and a huge amount of who we become is influenced by our surroundings. Trump facing fucking jail time absolutely will be the deciding factor for a lot of people. Maybe it will only move the needle a few percentage points, or a fraction of a percent. But this could be enough to win Biden some swing states.
This 100%. Also, modern political analysts have found the “swing voters” are not people who oscillating between voting for Democrats and Republicans. “Independent” voters almost always vote for the same party. They are people deciding whether to vote or not, not which of the two major candidates they will vote for.
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/india...oth-modi-rahul-gandhi-eye-victory-2024-06-01/

Yeah India democracy is a lost cause, the muslim and immigrant despising BJP + rest of NDA did even better than expected and have ~2/3 of lower parliament seats, so they can do big changes to the constitution now. But certain hindu nationalist apologists (who also love Israel what a coincidence) in another forum will call me "hinduphobe again" because of course.
BHARAT NUMBER ONE, WE'RE COMING FOR THE RADICAL ANTI-NATIONAL NAXALITE SANTA CLAUS ONCE WE ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL OF TAKING THE POO TO THE LOO

for real, fuck man i hate hindutva, what a way to ruin a beautiful religion AND the world's largest democracy.


Remember 11 days before the 2016 election the FBI found more of "Hillary's emails" and despite later confirming that nothing bad was found, the public backlash very well might have been the straw that broke the camel's back that cost her the election.
One thing I think you're missing here is that Americans actually LOVE corrupt politicians so long as they're fascists. Look no further than when the police unions come out in support of a 34-time felon and insurrectionist. Dude literally stole money from children's cancer charities and bragged on air about creeping on minors changing. Forget about "Grab them by the pussy," he was peeping on kids and actually bragged about it. They love him for it. What they don't love are women and minorities. Hillary should have been MORE racist if she wanted to not lose those Sanders voters to Trump and Jill "bomb the Palestinian camps" Stein. :mehowth:
 
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In my geniune, honest, Australian, white, centralist opinion, I think America is pretty fucked if Trump wins. From his right-wing populist views (such that Wikipedia lists Excessive Citations) and with ideas of nationalism, protectionism, and semi-isolation, it's almost clear cut he's creating Germany 1942: Electric Boogaloo (and if Biden wins again I have no doubts Trump will pull the "See you in four years" card). I know it's "not my country" nor "my place" but America IS the superpower of the world and what they do WILL affect everyone else.
 
I don't think Trump getting convicted will move the needle that much.

Wow, the slimebag is a real criminal after all. How shocking. :mehowth:

People who are naive enough to vote based on things like morality have decided on their vote long ago. Swing voters usually have issues specific to that period (For example, poor handling of the pandemic) or underlying economic reasons like inflation and buying power.

Between the gross mishandling of the Gaza situation and the perception that the economy is still cooked, Biden is under pressure on both.

The most notorious thing about his situation is that it's not usual to hear good news about Biden's administration. That plays into Trump's win con of apathy shrinking the vote pool and allowing his rabid fanbase to take a bigger percentage than it would've been otherwise.

Which means that the Democrats bungled their strategy. AGAIN. :facepalm:
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/india...oth-modi-rahul-gandhi-eye-victory-2024-06-01/

Yeah India democracy is a lost cause, the muslim and immigrant despising BJP + rest of NDA did even better than expected and have ~2/3 of lower parliament seats, so they can do big changes to the constitution now. But certain hindu nationalist apologists (who also love Israel what a coincidence) in another forum will call me "hinduphobe again" because of course.

That being said, this has been a long time coming and just shows how weak the party of Mahatma Gandhi has become over decades. They really started to lose favor over the majority of population when Indira Gandhi ruled like a dictator for a few years and they never truly recovered since then and are on a constant decline. At this point it's hard for me to imagine a India that won't be ruled by a dynasty of Narendra Modi and his closest crooks + family for decades even if Climate Change soon makes big swaths of India literally uninhabitable for many months of the year (it's already well under way of doing so).
 
I don't think Trump getting convicted will move the needle that much.

Wow, the slimebag is a real criminal after all. How shocking. :mehowth:

People who are naive enough to vote based on things like morality have decided on their vote long ago. Swing voters usually have issues specific to that period (For example, poor handling of the pandemic) or underlying economic reasons like inflation and buying power.
Naive enough to vote based on morality?

What is morally correct is politically correct. There seems to be some “hot take” culture that has people actually thinking being a piece of shit convicted criminal is a political boon. Newsflash: it is not. People do not like criminals. If you remember Democrat Doug Jones winning in a Senate seat in super deep red Alabama over Republican Roy Moore, it turns out being a predator of underage girls is really fucking bad politics. Trump has 34 felonies, will have a report to a parole officer, and is looking increasingly likely to get jail time as a sentence. Morality and character are hugely impactful in politics.
 

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