The Power of Big Birds, Kacaw Style!

Which is the Best BIRD?

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Yeah Mamoswine is a threat to birds, which is why a bulky Latios can be a better choice over Archeops. Pretty sure Giratina-O's Outrage will almost OHKO Mamoswine in return especially with Life Orb recoil but you are right, the pig is hard to deal with.

Also, yeah Honchkrow's defenses are equal, it is just me always using Lonely nature without thinking about it first, must be my eyesight problem. Thanks for pointing that out.


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Skarmory (M) @ Custap Berry
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
- Taunt

Shaymin-Sky @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Air Slash
- Seed Flare
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature
- Brave Bird
- Heat Wave
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Atk / 44 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Roost
- Sunny Day

Latias (Latios) (M) @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP / 176 SAtk / 204 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 176 Atk / 244 Def / 48 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Outrage
- Dragon Tail

so yeah, i dont really have much to rate here. good decision on latios though; the added bulk can help you greatly vs electric arceus which would otherwise smash your team. as gimmicky as the team looks it /actually/ works in a metagame full of thunders and stealth rock, so really nice fucking job man. i dont have much to rate but seriously watch out for swords dance rayquaza. your only save from it is skarmory which can only phaze; it won't be able to do it twice. there are obvious flaws like rockceus and such, but since this is bird team i dont want to play with it. gligar is cute, but honchkrow is better! :)

a proof of how solid this team is is the amount of variants it has. you probably tested and we probably spoke of a few changes on irc too, so my job here is p much done. well done my wo/man!
Thanks furai, and yeah updated the RMT with Latios over Archeops.
Archeops was sadly removed and added to the hall of fame, as an ex member. He was once the head of the BIRDS offense unit.

Electric Arceus sucks and yeah Giratina-O wasn't a good counter to it at all. Needs Latios which I just added. Swords Dance Rayquaza can setup on no one, I already mentioned it but if he somehow manages to setup then it will be sad unless I use Jolly Giratina-O to sort of beat Adamant Rayquaza. Rock Arceus loses to Latios so I am ok with it.

Archeops rapes Rayquaza just saying, unless it is some sort of Scarf variant. Head Smash will KO it easily. Yeah I am done with this team, needs more birds for research week.

Thanks :)

I don't like furs, I want FEATHERS go away furry
I forgot to put in another suggestion in my last answer, so here it is. Ever thought of Arceus-Flying. Sure, it caged all birds, but I'll tell his story later.

Arceus-Flying @ Sky Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Recover

So it's the standard FlyingCeus set, with Earth Power > Refresh to hit Rock and Steel-types harder. I've tried it out with your team, and it worked really well. Now here's the story.

Story said:
It was a sunny day outside. Ho-Oh was flying in the skies, and Lugia was sleeping on an island. FlyingCeus could see all this from the top of the Sky Pillar, a place he'd share with his fellow roommate Rayquaza. That day, everything was going well until Aerodactyl came in. The same Aerodactyl who asked for Archeops to be weakened and get Defeatist. This time, he wanted ALL KACAWS gone. Rayquaza tried to hit him with a powerful Outrage, but Aerodactyl was faster and banded, and OHKO'd with Stone Edge. FlyingCeus came with a Judgment upon the pterodactyl, but it wasn't very effective and FlyingCeus got defeated by Stone Edge as well. After this defeat, he was forced to to secretly give his throne to Aerodactyl, king of KACAWS, and had to imprison all Birds, who finally managed to escape. Aerodactyl also got defeated by the legion of birds, more specifically by Archeops, who killed him with a crit Head Smash.
So yeah, Aerodactyl is evil and Arceus-Flying was forced to hurt the birds. At least try him, when I tested him it went pretty well.
OK, I will add that interesting story thanks! The thing about Flying Arceus is it doesn't look like a bird LOL.

Yeah I have thought about it, maybe I should make an exception and try it out. The bad news is Flying Arceus increases that Electric and Ice weak. So, which member did you replaced with Arceus when you tried it? Can I know about it?
Well while he may not look like a bird, his name has the word ''Flying'' in it. That's more than enough to convince me. Plus, he learns Fly! KACAW!

Anyways, I first tried replacing Honchkrow, than Skymin with FlyingCeus. Both of the tests went well, although I was missing the priority that came from Honchkrow when I was not using him. I think Arceus-Flying > Skymin is the best thing you could do because he gives you an even bigger Ice weakness, and Deoxys-S, who you mentioned using Skymin to counter, will only lay down Rocks (unless your opponent is a pure idiot, then he will proceed to lay down Spikes). It also lets you somewhat vulnerable to Kyogre (But you have Latios for that, I used Latias ;P) and Groudon, but he can't use his STAB moves against you and has to resort to using Stone Edge.

Also just for the laughs I wanted to use Defog to keep SR off the field but for some reason none of your Pokemon could learn it :(. It could work as an emergency button just in case that Skarm couldn't lay down Hazards / you don't need them (huh).
Honchkrow is pretty much the best bird though outside of Ho-Oh. Even the poll shows Giratina-O is the most useless bird, well nobody loves wannabes and Honchkrow had the second highest vote.

Yeah I can try it over Shaymin-S but I will miss out on OHKOing Groudon and Kyogre sadly and I can't hax people anymore :[ The reason for Shaymin-S is to actually beat weather abusers such as Kingdra, Venusaur and Kabutops but they are rare anyway. Most birds still beat Venusaur and Kabutops loses to Giratina-O. I like Sunny Day Ho-Oh so I can try it out with Arceus-Flyer.

And yeah, Defog is a possible move LOL, birds can work with no hazards but Honchkrow will be less effective because hazards usually push most pokemon such as Palkia into Sucker Punch KO range. Stealth Rock is really annoying and Defog might just be worth using. Most of them already face four moveslot syndrome though so that will be hard.

Thanks, great idea!
I suggest adding missingno to your team because it is a bird type in gen 1. Or you can use the pokestar prop, UFO to wreck havoc upon the foes team.

Jokes aside, I suggest adding lugia to your team. Replace it with either honchkrow or shaymin-s. Lugia can work well with skarmory because it can shuffle the foes team with whirlwind and dragon tail which combined with entry hazard will heaviliy crippled the foes team. It also has massive defenses to tank some of the most powerful hits in the tier.

I don't know if this counts as a bird or not, but I would suggest adding landuros-t to your team. Landorus-t can fix your glaring weakness to zekrom and provide momentum with u-turn. It gets perfect coverage with EQ and stone edge and has an amazing base 145 attack stat to wreck havoc upon the foes team. Intimidate is also very useful since it increases his defenses t high levels. It does have a weakness to ice beam and water moves, so watch out.

EDIT: Here are some birds to consider
Druddigon (has thrisle leaves for wings)
Gyarados (Your favorite!)
Landorus-T looks more like a flying tiger than a bird, and tigers belongs to those land animals. Instead of using Landorus-T, I tried Gligar and Gliscor, both can still check Zekrom but are unfortunately weak. Thankfully, Zekrom is slow, so it doesn't really get much free switch ins except against Skarmory. Of course, I can still try it out, and yeah I did tried Landorus-T before, with Expert Belt and it was ok, but he will have to fit in other bird teams not the original.

I tried Lugia, it is in one of the teams I listed in the hide tags. Thanks for mentioning though!

As for the list your mentioned:

Zekrom is harmed by Spikes so nope
Swellow and Braviary are both tried and they suck, despite that Guts Facade, Swellow doesn't do much, and isn't that strong. Would have been better with a higher Speed stat, Darkrai-tie sucks, and I had a Braviary team listed in the RMT. Check it out at the bottom of the thread.

Scizor isn't a bird, it's a bug LOL Bugs can't be birds, they are just bird food. Druddigon can't fly, and doesn't look like a bird in any way, not elegant at all, just like the fat land monsters.

Salamence is tried and it works, read the whole thing and you can see I mentioned it. Golduck is a duck but it sucks, because Cloud Nine doesn't do anything and it is so weak by Uber standards and slow.

Crobat was ok but it's just weak and base 130 Speed helps but not no good STAB or coverage moves outside of Brave Bird. Cross Poison sucks. I still tried Crobat before because I thought I can use it to beat Darkrai and friends.

Scyther is obviously a bug sorry. Gyarados lives in the sea, being favorite doesn't really make him an exception. Siding with Kyogre is just unacceptable, if Gyarados is a bird then he must be some prehistoric bird without wings and feathers.

Sigilyph sucks, too weak and fragile, not to mention bad typing, Magic Guard doesn't help a lot. Dragonite is tried and doesn't look like a bird, Dragons =/= birds. Salamence is different because Bagon behaves like a baby bird, Dragonite starts out like a snake so nope. Xatu is tried and is in one of the teams listed.

Thanks, wow that is some nice list but Porygon2 is a bird and it isn't on your list! Too bad it isn't fast and takes damage from Spikes.
Whoops! Didn't relize that most of my list was filled with non-birds. And I completely forgot about the orygomi Ducks. Choice scarf porygon-z can destroy teams, but requires prediction. I'm pretty sure flygon is a moth, but it has levitate and roost so it is kind of a bird I guess? The same goes for hydreigon, except it is a hydra. IMO lugia is a bird and it is great phazer. Or you could try mandibuzz. Mandibuzz is mediocre, but it can tank some powerful hits like CS kyogre's water spout.
Also falkner is way cooler.
I haven't try Porygon-Z, but I can later. I tried Flygon and while it is resistant to hazards, Flygon is really weak. Hydreigon is tested too and it sucks. Hydreigon is surprisingly weak in Ubers and isn't fast enough. I tried Lugia and it is already in one of the teams just not the main one. Mandibuzz sucks, I tried to make it work multi times and still fail. If I need a Ghost Arceus check or something bulky, Togekiss would have been better. When I tried it, Togekiss > Mandibuzz because Togekiss can paralyze things and hax them with Air Slash + Nasty Plot. Togekiss has higher Special Defense too. Thanks, I appreciate your comment but falker isn't a girl and I am a girl.
NONONO don't use Flyingceus Zubat is more a bird than Arceus will ever be since it has wings and its not a bird hence neither is flyingceus. and same for therians and incarnates yes landorus-t im talking abt u

the only flying types left that are not so shit/outclassed/used before that they are not worth mentioning

Articuno (not sure if you’ve tried this), charizard (unfortunately couldn’t remove him with my rounds of elimination, especially as he attacks on the special side), Lugia (not sure if you’ve tried this either), Mandibuzz (idk bulk, maybe Ghostceus counter since Togekiss is owned by SubCM but generally shit), Mantine (SDef is high lol not outclassed except by Ho-oh and Lugia), Moltres (better than Zard but not strictly so), Sigilyph (not sure why but), Swoobat (lol simple its simple), togekiss (same as mandibuzz I guess?)
I tried all of the ones you mention except for Charizard and Sigilyph but I won't test Charizard because Charizard blows. Mantine isn't a bird so I haven't try it out yet but I am not sure if kite=bird.

Also, yes I tried Charizard before but obviously not on a bird team. Might think about Sigilyph but what I see is it sucks, with bad stats and just Magic Guard as a good thing. It has just enough Speed to troll Kyurem-W though and Stored Power looks interesting so I might try it.

Swoobat, Moltres and Togekiss are all tested. If I have to rank them: Togekiss > Swoobat > Moltres. Swoobat is pretty fast, faster than Latios and simple helps a lot when Calm Minding but shit stats is just too much. Moltres is slow, crippled by Stealth Rock and there is no reason to use it over Ho-Oh. Tornadus-T is so much better as a Hurricane user. Togekiss is alright, I just find it hard to fit her in. Serene Grace + Air Slash is pretty cool, especially when Togekiss has more special bulk than Mandibuzz.

Now thanks but Zard might better than Moltres because Charizard outruns Rayquaza, Kyurem-W and Genesect. Solar Power neutralizes the power advantage, and both of them die fast anyway.
Well, judjing by the birds that have been discussed, the only birds left are Pideot, Dodrio, Murkrow and Unfezant. Almost all of them are unviable, so your team seems somewhat complete. However, you have a weakness to terrakion, tyranitar and Arceus-Rock. Although your shaymin-S can deal with them, after SR it will be heavily weakened. This can be remedied with a fighting flying type, but the closest thing to that is staraptor. Grass knot on Latios can help deal with these rock types. Since tyranitar will probably switch in on latios, grass knot will 2HKO the standard variants. It also helps you beat pokemon like kyogre, groudon, hippowdon and Arceus ground. I suggest using it over calm mind because the stat drops from draco meteor will counter the stat raises from calm mind.
Also I had no idea you were a girl. He he, sorry. But falkner defines birds with his elegance.
Pidgeot sucks because Staraptor is better for offense and Togekiss outclasses it in defense. Murkrow sucks, I will just laugh at prankster Feather Dance, it blows. Unfezant has awful stats. Yeah the team is done now.

Terrakion, Tyranitar and Arceus-Rock are all annoying. They are the reason why I consider using Gligar and maybe Gliscor. Calm Mind Arceus-Rock will still beat both but loses to Latios. I personally liked Gligar and he is in one of the teams listed. Could try Grass Knot but Latios will no longer beat Calm Mind Arceus.

It's OK, no one thinks I am a girl anyway. Yeah falkner is great, but Skyla is hot.
There is one more flying type nobody mentioned, but it is more of a hazard to birds. This flying type really relies on rain, is outclassed by zapdos, relies on its ability and often kills birds. This flying type is rotom-s. Obviously its a fan, but it has the advantage of being a flying type THAT CAN LEVITATE, a feet no other pokemon can claim. However, it is also the most reliant on luck to get a job done. Use it at your own risk and he might just suprise you.

Also, gliscor is way more viable than gligar because of his 12.5% recovery per turn and amazing sub toxic set. Gligar often gets 2HKO'd by most attacks because of his lack of recovery. IMO you should use gliscor.
:O Don't listen to anyone, FlyingCeus is a worthy KACAW! Anyways, I have two other suggestions: The first one is Drifblim.

Drifblim @ Leftovers
Trait: Aftermath
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Calm Mind
- Minimize
- Substitute

Yeah, pretty basic Evasion Passing set, but you could go Sitrus Berry / Focus Sash with Unburden for that nice speed boost so you can go for another Minimize. So yeah :)

My second suggestion is slightly gimmicky, but as all of my suggestions, I tested it. :)

Swoobat @ Focus Sash
Trait: Simple
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Double Team
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Stored Power

Yeah, this one was hilarious, I once sweeped a whole team with it. Too strong. There isn't much to say about these sets because you probably know them and you're a pretty smart person.

On another note, have you tested FlyingCeus? If so, was it good? (also use Gliscor, it's p good in Ubers)
lol trickroom is not following the original theme anymore, gliscor is a bat, so why not crobat
flyingceus still doesn't have wings, just like weezing.
and skyla is hotter than falkner
lol trickroom is not following the original theme anymore, gliscor is a bat, so why not crobat
flyingceus still doesn't have wings, just like weezing.
and skyla is hotter than falkner
But skyla is way overconfident and doesn't do her duties properly. Also, she is definetly not elegant. Wionna is a more elegant flying type master because she accepts challenges and has A GIANT SKARMORY! Bats were actually in a myth involing a competition between the mammals and birds, and the birds rejected him. Also, crobat produce eggs, a common feature among birds.


Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Klingklang lays eggs too (as well as everything else that can breed), so Crobat and also Swoobat aren't in the loop with the birds :P
I can't see how Rotom-S will work, sure you have levitate and is a Flying-type, can't be cooler than that, but if Zapdos fails, Rotom-S will too.

Gligar has Roost, so that is a reliable recovery. Also things like Scarf Zekrom 2HKOes Gliscor without Protect, while Gligar can survive 2 even after Stealth Rock damage.

Haven't tried Drifblim and it is a balloon. I am not sure about Flying Arceus, shrang already took him as a horse not bird. Tried Swoobat, its bad and is a BAT. Simple can't make him work. I only swept once with Sigilpyh.

Crobat is tested and it isn't amazing. You can revenge kill things like Darkrai and Shaymin-S with it but not strong enough outside of Brave Bird. Klingklang nope, its a machine.

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