The Power of Poison!

I love the Poison type(fav), and i actually think a lot of them are cool, and for some reason a decent ammount of them have very good movepools.

The problem is that most Poison pokemon are outclassed at what they do by other OU pokemon. Sure, some of them can work, but why run Toxicroak when there's Lucario? Why run Muk when there's Blissey or Snorlax? Why run Weezing when Gliscor or Cresselia are right there. They lose there jobs to other pokemon sadly. Maybe if the actual type got a boost they'd get a little more spotlight.

However, the Poison type is deadly in UU. Lot's of pokemon run attacks just to deal with them. (HP Psychic Venusaur anyone?) <_<
 
I'm really impressed by the amount of responses this thread has had!
Thanks guys!

To summarise what has been said in this thread:

Poison is a horrible offensive type, having only one SE, several resists, and one immunity. Defensively, the type does much better, although the weakness to Ground holds it back. The resists to Bug and Fighting are extremely helpful, and several Poison types have either Levitate and are part Flying. The Poison type is deadly in UU and is a good type to have secondary. Perhaps the Poison type could be improved by adding more SEs such as to Water.

Should I add some of this to the original post?
 
1059860 said:
and during the first generation, Gengar was the only Pokemon (apart from Gastly and Haunter) that can hit a STAB-Super Effective move against Alakazam or Mewtwo, but both were able to outrun it and kill with Super Effective Psychic due to the poison type.
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With what, lick? Actually if I recall correctly, Alakazam was oddly immune to lick . . . Shadow Ball was invented in GS, and then it was physical . . .

Gengar's poison type isn't a complete waste. When you have defenses as pathetic as gengar, 4x resist v. 2x resist (to bug) makes a big difference. It also lols at grass knot . . . xD
 
Weezing makes an outstanding Physical wall. The only downside is that it is countered by Heatran with ease. Who would keep a Weezing in on a Heatran (That more than likely has a Flash Fire Boost) anyway?
 
One other thing that merits mention is that the non-toxic poison effect granted by some poison attacks is by far the worst status effect in the game. It provides the same (meager) life-loss as Burn, but without the status-crippling. It only serves to provide Guts/Quick Feet pokemon with a massive boost in their stats while protecting them from more important status afflictions.
 
Kagster123 said:
I love the Poison type(fav), and i actually think a lot of them are cool, and for some reason a decent ammount of them have very good movepools.

The problem is that most Poison pokemon are outclassed at what they do by other OU pokemon. Sure, some of them can work, but why run Toxicroak when there's Lucario? Why run Muk when there's Blissey or Snorlax? Why run Weezing when Gliscor or Cresselia are right there. They lose there jobs to other pokemon sadly. Maybe if the actual type got a boost they'd get a little more spotlight.

However, the Poison type is deadly in UU. Lot's of pokemon run attacks just to deal with them. (HP Psychic Venusaur anyone?) <_<
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They all have different uses and work well in different teams.

Last I checked, blissey and snorlax didn't resist fighting, gliscor and cress couldn't learn WoW and pain split, and luke didn't resist some of the stuff that toxicroak does.

It's a given that most UU Pokemon are less versatile on cetain teams, but it doesn't take away the fact that at least weezing and muk can fit a decent role on your OU team if there isn't already an abundance of ground/psychic weak Pokemon.

Being immune to toxic and absorbing toxic spikes is VERY good, especially when toxic is the only way to stop/kill some walls in certain circumstances.
 
ChouToshio said:
With what, lick? Actually if I recall correctly, Alakazam was oddly immune to lick . . . Shadow Ball was invented in GS, and then it was physical . . .

Gengar's poison type isn't a complete waste. When you have defenses as pathetic as gengar, 4x resist v. 2x resist (to bug) makes a big difference. It also lols at grass knot . . . xD
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"oddly"? Not oddly. Psychic was immune to Ghost in RBY. That was changed in GSC because Psychic was becoming broken- it only had one weakness, Bug, and back then, the only Bug moves were String Shot, Leech Life, Pin Missile, and Twineedle. And out of them, String Shot doesn't damage, Leech Life and Pin Missile are pathetic, and Twineedle was only learned by Beedrill, who is weak to Psychic. So in GSC, they introduced Dark, made Psychic WEAK to Ghost, and made Megahorn.
 
Missingno. Master said:
"oddly"? Not oddly. Psychic was immune to Ghost in RBY. That was changed in GSC because Psychic was becoming broken- it only had one weakness, Bug, and back then, the only Bug moves were String Shot, Leech Life, Pin Missile, and Twineedle. And out of them, String Shot doesn't damage, Leech Life and Pin Missile are pathetic, and Twineedle was only learned by Beedrill, who is weak to Psychic. So in GSC, they introduced Dark, made Psychic WEAK to Ghost, and made Megahorn.
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even though it was part of the type chart, it probably was a mistake. In the anime, ghosts have an advantage over psychics (remember Ash's Haunter vs Sabrina?)
 
Soulchild said:
They all have different uses and work well in different teams.

Last I checked, blissey and snorlax didn't resist fighting, gliscor and cress couldn't learn WoW and pain split, and luke didn't resist some of the stuff that toxicroak does.

It's a given that most UU Pokemon are less versatile on cetain teams, but it doesn't take away the fact that at least weezing and muk can fit a decent role on your OU team if there isn't already an abundance of ground/psychic weak Pokemon.

Being immune to toxic and absorbing toxic spikes is VERY good, especially when toxic is the only way to stop/kill some walls in certain circumstances.
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Most special attacks aren't fighting type though, with the only really common special fighting move thrown around being gengar's focus blast, and even then it can be defeated even by the 4x weak tyranitar (another potential special sponge) if gengar lacks LO or if ttar is +sp.DEF.

Also, in regards to Weezing (but actual in regards to dusknoir and spiritomb as well), overall Rotom just does the job better. Dual STAB, electric's welcome resistances, thunderwave and trick on top of WoW just make it much more versatile. Pain Split is an extremely overrated move, and even if rotom has it I don't think I'd make room for it.
 
Poison is a worthless offensive type, it is the WORST offensive type, bar none. It only hits for SE on Grass types, which have several much more easily exploitable weaknesses anyways.
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Funny because I thought normal was the worst offensive type. It only hits.... NOTHING for super effective, and Ghosts laugh at it...

Oh yeah... Poison isn't that bad as an attacking type as far as neutrality goes. People look at Ice and say OMG! It hits so many types super effective! Dragon! Ground! Flying! Grass! Then they forget that Fire, Steel, Water, and Ice shut it down. Meh... Poison + Fire actually isn't that bad as far as type coverage goes.
 
Poison/Fire is double weak to Ground, which is something that's pretty hard to get around. Offensively though, it's great.
 
That's what I meant, offensively lol. Poison + IIRC hits most things neutral, except Swampert, Rhyperior, Tentacruel, Quilfish, Heatran... nothing a little hidden power can't fix :-D.
 
Lets think of good movesets for Poison types, that way people will promote them, and use them more, making them more Popular.


Did everyone forget about Venemoth? The one Poison type with an ability that removes a 2x Resistance versus Rock, Ground, Bug, and other Poison types?


Venemoth: @ Choice Specs
252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
Modest
Ability: Tinted Lens (take that Ground, Rock, Bug and Poison resisters!)

Bug Buzz
Sludge Bomb!
Psychic
Hidden Power [Fighting]

Psychic is used! Especially in UU, where more Psychic types thrive: Solrock, Grumpig, Hypno, Lunatone, Jynx, Mr. Mime, Claydol, etc.


Toxicroak:@ Life Orb
252 Attack / 252 Speed
Jolly
Dry Skin

Gunk Shot
Cross Chop
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch


Gunk Shot works to hit Skymin on the switch when they think you are gonna use Cross Chop, and makes Toxicroak a great Ludicolo counter, hitting it for Super Effective damage with Gunk Shot!, while Immune to Surf, and resistant to Grass Knot (thanks to it being a Poison type).

Toxicroak, unlike most other Poison types, are not afraid of Rock types, infact, it can hit them with Cross Chop and smack them in the face with both hands! Take that Tyranitar!


here is a Picture to show my Points!:

080421_collection5.jpg


Carnivine can't resist Toxicroak's Gunk Shot, and heals in the Water!
 
I'd rather run Poison Jab over Gunk Shot on Toxicroak, just to have a "reliable" attack. One high-power, low-accuracy move is meh, two is just asking for trouble.
 
Say that to Focus Blast Gengar instead of Hidden Power [Fighting] Gengar.

Gengar needs Focus Blast to kill Tyranitar, so it can be necessary, as for Toxicroak, imagine a 180 Base Power move off of Life Orb + Swords Dance + a 30% chance to Poison!

So worth it!
 
Pip the Puffin said:
THE BAD - Offense

  • Generally, most Poison pokemon have horrible stats. Nuff said.
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This pretty much sums it up. There are only a few OU viable Poison-types based off of sheer stat total alone, and then add in the fact that the only ones that are decent enough tend to be outclassed by other pokemon of their secondary type. i.e. Tentacruel is one of the best Poison-types but it is far from the best Water-type, Venusaur is a good Poison but not very effective because Grass moves suck in OU, etc.

And Poison is the worst attacking type and has been for a long time, not even Normal in D/P can come close really. The attacking options either have low base power or poor accuracy, but they all have bad type coverage in the Steel+Ground centered OU metagame. Even pokemon that get STAB on Poison-type moves usually have better options in their movepools. (Hi Gengar)

Poison, the status, on the other hand is very effective. The Poison-type alone is worth keeping around just for Toxic and Toxic Spikes.
 
As an attacking type, Poison is the worst type in Standard and in UU.

In Ubers, Poison isn't as bad (seriously), as Psychic is the worst attacking type there. You might think I'm going crazy as many many Pokemon in ubers are Psychic-typed, but... that is exactly the point! If many Pokemon in ubers are Psychic-typed, it means that too many Pokemon resist it.
 
RaikouLover said:
Funny because I thought normal was the worst offensive type. It only hits.... NOTHING for super effective, and Ghosts laugh at it...

Oh yeah... Poison isn't that bad as an attacking type as far as neutrality goes. People look at Ice and say OMG! It hits so many types super effective! Dragon! Ground! Flying! Grass! Then they forget that Fire, Steel, Water, and Ice shut it down. Meh... Poison + Fire actually isn't that bad as far as type coverage goes.
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If you'd read the second page you'd see me backing that argument up against the same notion that normal type is somehow inferior. Needless to say, it is not. Quick recap

Poison resistant:
Steel (immune)
Ground
Rock
Poison
Ghost

Hits Grass SE

Normal resistant:
Ghost (immune)
Rock
Steel

Hits nothing SE

I'm not saying Normal type is good, I'm saying Poison is the worst. It really hits nothing that Normal does not and is resisted by two more types for the benefit of hitting Grass types SE which frankly is no great feat.
 
In turn normal is basically an inferior dragon type. I also agree that hitting the 5 weakness type grass is no great feat, especially with how few grass pokemon can even make it into OU let alone the top of OU. Heck, to make it to the top of OU a grass pokemon needs 120sp.ATK/127speed/seedflare/STAB airslash and serene grace and even then is not the top sweeper.

In other words, even without STAB, a pokemon should be looking for Dragon Move > Normal move > Poison, all things being equal (which of course they're not, as Return has its obvious advantages over most non-stab dragon moves).

In terms of just type coverage though, Dragon is a better non-stab move than poison, and everyone says non-stab dragon sucks. xD
 
Poison may be a poor attacking type but that is still no excuse not to use it for STAB, and in most cases isn't as bad as people make it seem. For example, Nasty Plot Crobat will benefit a hell of a lot more from Sludge Bomb than Air Slash, especially with Heat Wave available. Nasty Plot Toxicroak is better off using Sludge Bomb than Focus Blast or Hidden Power Fighting, and Qwilfish benefits from Poison Jab since it hits the Grass pokemon that resist its water moves. If a pokemon get's STAB on it, there really is no reason not to use it, especially since most poison pokemon are dual types. If Gengar's movepool didn't include Thunderbolt, Sludge Bomb would probably be a viable option with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast because it IS Gengar's strongest attack. Roserade and Venusaur can use sludge bomb quite well also for smacking other Grass types, especially for Leech Seeding in Venusaur's case, and Choice sets for Ros. Don't get me wrong, I would never put a poison move on a non-poison pokemon, but poison pokemon do benefit from using it as a STAB option in certain situations.
 
hhjj said:
Say that to Focus Blast Gengar instead of Hidden Power [Fighting] Gengar.

Gengar needs Focus Blast to kill Tyranitar, so it can be necessary, as for Toxicroak, imagine a 180 Base Power move off of Life Orb + Swords Dance + a 30% chance to Poison!

So worth it!
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Gengar has Shadow Ball + Thunderbolt which are 100% accuracy moves.

A Toxicroak with Gunk Shot + Cross Chop + Sucker Punch would have 0 reliable moves. Sometimes you just need to finish a poke at 30% health and you need a move that won't miss (or fail).
 
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