the rise of cancel culture

[RODAN]

we've all seen it. its increasingly more common as time passes. some celeb, or even some random person gets something dug up about them from years and years ago and is suddenly a target of a hate mob. often times losing their job prospects or any chance at living a normal life.

people are definitely jumping the gun when it comes to accusations nowadays and not waiting for the full story. like this woman who worked at chipotle and was accused falsely of being racist

or how about johnny depp. who was accused of being a spousal abuser to his wife amber heard and was made out to be this horrible human. and now evidence to the contrary detailing that she abused him is coming out.

theres a lot of nuance to this because sometimes the person deserves to be cancelled (like joe biden or r kelly)

thoughts? do you think cancel culture is healthy? what can we do to properly contain the online lynch mob?

 

[Kink]

Roseanne was set up.

Srsly though, some people need to just stop talking or being given platforms. Cancelling makes sense to me. It would make even more sense, though, if celebs weren't as glorified as they were so that their bullshit isn't spread as easily - thereby making cancelling less of an issue altogether.

 

[Ashaebi]

Many modern day celebrities don't understand the saying 'actions speak louder than words'. They are the same celebs who virtue signal online about how we need to fight climate change and protect the environment yet fly private jets, operate private yachts, own multiple energy consuming mansions, houses, drive gas guzzling cars and live very lavish lifestyles (I'm looking at you Leonardo dicaprio) ; there's literally zero reason to take modern day celebrities seriously.

Also your principle doesn't necessarily only apply to politics, current affairs and the entertainment industry; if you think it is OK to pick the tiniest mistakes of someone else's past to shame them/take revenge or for whatever motive it is extremely easy for someone else to do the same to you and thus expose your own hypocrisy.

Hence the obvious answer is no both in the personal scale and the social scale.

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

You dont want to engage in cancel culture because when your strand of thinking inevitably becomes unpopular because there is a natural swing to the other direction, the people you cancelled will remember that and then try to cancel you. Also nobody should be afraid to say unpopular things. If someone as insane as a Nazi has a platform safely then that guarantees that a normal person like you can voice what you say because if even an insane person has their platform then it would be completely outlandish to take away yours if someone like his is safe. So you never have to worry.

 

[MikeDawg]

People "cancel" celebrities (especially female ones) over the pettiest shit. Like, there's a difference between Chris Brown beating the shit out if Rihanna and Jennifer Lawrence sitting on a rock, but you could hardly tell considering the social media reactions to both events were 10/10 outrage. Or just look at any male-dominated discussion about Amy Schumer or Brie Larson. You'd think they were the literal spawns of Satan.

Honestly, those are the real SJWs, because they're constantly furious about things that they don't actually give a fuck about. They just think they should be angry.

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

No, Im pretty sure the real SJW are the SJW lol. They do most of the stupid bullshit silencing stuff no matter what the Anti SJW people pull off from time to time. Like, its pretty lopsided my dude.

 

[MikeDawg]

No, Im pretty sure the real SJW are the SJW lol. They do most of the stupid bullshit silencing stuff no matter what the Anti SJW people pull off from time to time. Like, its pretty lopsided my dude.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

but you could hardly tell considering the social media reactions to both events were 10/10 outrage

And this the main issue I have with it, yeah sure, call out shitty things, but acting like any offense to this makes you a complete monster is not really tenable. This stuff also bleeds into regular reactions that aren't celebrities in your life, if you make an slight against them, you are on their shit list as a monster for the rest of eternity. Nuance and forgiveness don't exist.

The only upside to this is that no one can live to these standards, and cancel culture will die out from eating itself like an ouroboros.

 

[orch]

cancel culture is not limited to "stupid celebrities".

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/11/us/ronald-sullivan-harvard.html

But when Mr. Sullivan joined the defense team of Mr. Weinstein, the Hollywood producer, in January, many students expressed dismay, saying that his decision to represent a person accused of abusing women disqualified Mr. Sullivan from serving in a role of support and mentorship to students.

 

[Myzozoa]

No, Im pretty sure the real SJW are the SJW lol. They do most of the stupid bullshit silencing stuff no matter what the Anti SJW people pull off from time to time. Like, its pretty lopsided my dude.

careful or they'll tommy robinson you up m8

 

[TheValkyries]

Woah look at all these bad faith arguments. Love to see it. This will be good and productive conversation for sure.

I know I’m not your typical sjw in the sense that I often worry about the excess of social interaction available to us now as humans with the internet which often results in inhumane dogpiling where everyone isn’t so focused on their own anger (righteous or not) that they forget that so many other people are also expressing anger at once.

I think Rodan you actually brought his up once in the LGBT thread about a porn actress who committed suicide after an immense backlash against some
severely homophobic comments she had made. I completely agree that these mobs of fury go to far frequently and often, and also that sometimes the hate even misfires and targets the wrong people.

That said: to then decry the entirety of public backlashes against behaviors of high profile individuals is just the complete back assward conclusion to make. Like you said Johnny depp was made out to be a horrible guy for the abuses he had done, but now maybe amber heard was abusive, but it’s not an either or, it can actually be both. They can both be bad, and it can still be worth it to say “hey we have to be cognizant of abusers and their behaviors in the future because that’s not okay.” And jonny depp is a great example because after that news came out and he was quote unquote cancelled he started appearing in a multi billion dollar movie franchise as a principal actor. What a colossal turn of fortune truly his career is over now that he’s been cancelled.

Too often people confuse backlash as meaning that the life of the one whose misdeeds are being judged will be over but it’s simply not true and that’s proven time and time again. Consider all of the shit Trump has done in his life how many times he’s been quote unquote cancelled and yet here he is. There’s a great joke I saw once that’s about the media catching Donald trump in an unnamed moral failing and this time for sure they’ll get him he can’t wriggle out of this one. Donald trump then deftly wriggles out of taking any responsibility and the media must continue their work to find his other plentiful moral failings.

So yes the anger of the masses has real tangible effects on the psychology of those targeted and more care should be taken that the reaction is proportionate to the inciting action, but no it’s not a societal cancer that is always wrongheaded and needs to be abolished so that everyone can get back to saying racist shit without fear.

 

[MikeDawg]

Honestly what bugs me the most is that everyone makes mistakes. Even if someone does do a bad thing, why does that cancel them for the rest of their lives?

Like okay Eureka O'Hara said the n-word once 8 years ago when she was singing along to a song, then she profusely apologized for it, explained how she grew up in racist bum-fuck nowhere, and her one black friend said it was okay. The entire drag race fandom holds that against her like she's a diabolical human being, but like... did all of you pop out the womb being well-versed in social justice theory? Literally every white person in the world has been confused (or still is confused) at some point as to why they can't say racial slurs in song lyrics, especially if they grew up in rural Tennessee. Plus, gays are lowkey racist as fuck most of the time, so it's even more ridiculous that they're damning her for this.

Was it wrong? Yeah. Did it happen almost a decade ago under completely understandable circumstances, and did she apologize and change her behavior? Yeah.


The same thing happens in politics too, particularly with the young people who typically participate in cancel culture. In fact, the reason I finally backed away from being a Bernie fanatic near the end of the 2016 primary is because I realised everyone was actually taking the memes 100% seriously, and they truly believed that hillary allegedly taking white house silverware made her a regressive cunt-face. Just look at the reaction to Barbara Lee endorsing Kamala Harris. Or even better:

Hide

Moral of the story, cancel culture is childish and usually hypocritical, and it makes it impossible to talk about nuance.

 

[Myzozoa]

people are definitely jumping the gun when it comes to accusations nowadays and not waiting for the full story. like this woman who worked at chipotle and was accused falsely of being racist

or how about johnny depp. who was accused of being a spousal abuser to his wife amber heard and was made out to be this horrible human. and now evidence to the contrary detailing that she abused him is coming out.

you gotta look at the outrage as it was released and not through the lens of post-hoc facts, otherwise youre gonna find a lot you don't like about older outrages

 

[GatoDelFuego]

you gotta look at the outrage as it was released and not through the lens of post-hoc facts, otherwise youre gonna find a lot you don't like about older outrages

Why should we participate in these kind of behavioral outrages at all?

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

So yes the anger of the masses has real tangible effects on the psychology of those targeted and more care should be taken that the reaction is proportionate to the inciting action, but no it’s not a societal cancer that is always wrongheaded and needs to be abolished so that everyone can get back to saying racist shit without fear.

Nobody was saying racist shit with impunity before call-out culture. You probably think not liking Islam is racist, which is why your standards for racism are completely unreliable and should not be listened to. Even if it did, it wouldnt be a bad thing because what people say on the internet doesnt matter and never has and never will, and nobody has ever been able to prove it has. I mean people were dropping the N bomb left and right before callout culture on internet forums and surprise surprise there was no alt right present and we were getting more peaceful and tolerant as a society.

You are also the guy, who in the league of legends smogon thread, said that Aurelion Sol making a negative comment about Miss Fortune's blouse was "aggressively not ok" and should be removed from the game because apparently its sexist to do that and also really really matters even if it is lmao. Also, you wrongly focus on the hurt feelings of whoever the recipient of the harassment is rather than the negative environment it creates for sharing thoughts, which is the real problem here.

No SJW has ever been able to prove their problems are real, or that whatever they are warning about is coming to fruition.

 

[#MAGiCVLGiRL_TRVP_B3VTZ]

Nobody was saying racist shit with impunity before call-out culture. You probably think not liking Islam is racist, which is why your standards for racism are completely unreliable and should not be listened to. Even if it did, it wouldnt be a bad thing because what people say on the internet doesnt matter and never has and never will, and nobody has ever been able to prove it has. I mean people were dropping the N bomb left and right before callout culture on internet forums and surprise surprise there was no alt right present and we were getting more peaceful and tolerant as a society.

You are also the guy, who in the league of legends smogon thread, said that Aurelion Sol making a negative comment about Miss Fortune's blouse was "aggressively not ok" and should be removed from the game because apparently its sexist to do that and also really really matters even if it is lmao. Also, you wrongly focus on the hurt feelings of whoever the recipient of the harassment is rather than the negative environment it creates for sharing thoughts, which is the real problem here.

No SJW has ever been able to prove their problems are real, or that whatever they are warning about is coming to fruition.

cool but you didnt post the n word when i told you to. you love sjws and you want to kiss them

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

Im perfectly capable any kind of n word when necessary but it would be completely gaudy to drop them carte blanche

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

you love sjws and you want to kiss them

Who wouldn't? Most meme SJWs are pretty cute. :3

 

[#MAGiCVLGiRL_TRVP_B3VTZ]

Who wouldn't? Most meme SJWs are pretty cute. :3

 

[Myzozoa]

Also, you wrongly focus on the hurt feelings of whoever the recipient of the harassment is rather than the negative environment it creates for sharing thoughts, which is the real problem here.

 

[Exeggutor]

Seeing someone talk about "SJWs" as public enemy #1 in 2019 is like I entered a portal to 2014 reddit and kind of hilarious.

I don't think people being held accountable for their actions is inherently a bad thing, but there is only so much improvement a person can do. People are not infallible and have all made mistakes, and people need to be allowed to make them. But that's also a touchy thing for me to say with regards to things like racism and the Holy N Word where I don't care very much.

I mean people were dropping the N bomb left and right before callout culture on internet forums and surprise surprise there was no alt right present and we were getting more peaceful and tolerant as a society

... What kind of company have you been keeping, man?

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

What kind of company have you been keeping?

 

[vonFiedler]

Nobody was saying racist shit with impunity before call-out culture.

There was no call-out culture before people were saying racist shit with impunity.

 

[orch]

Nobody is saying that sjw is the public enemy #1, just that they mostly perpetuate the cancel culture currently. Yes, all groups participate in the canceling culture. However, it is the sjws who are cancelling Harvard's the first black Dean of law school because he dared to do his job of defending someone.

As Princeness Bubblegum said, sjws will eventually eat themselves with their extreme deplatforming tactics.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Seeing someone talk about "SJWs" as public enemy #1 in 2019 is like I entered a portal to 2014 reddit and kind of hilarious.

I think this kind of stuff has been an issue on the left / social justice / progressive circles for a long time, the whole anti-sjw movement didn't come from no where. I think for the past 5-6 years we have been able to dismiss these criticism as they come from reactionaries and those reactionaries turned into outright Nazis lol. The term "Social Justice Warrior" actually has its origins on the left for noting hyperbolic social justice activists, but then of course that term was co-opted.

I cannot help that feel that a part of this is out of the design of this era in capitalism where everything is spectacle and identities has become atomized or washed away. There is an in group and an out group, and if you don't do XYZ, you are on the out-group, and will be criticized mercilessly, as oppose to people uniting together to actually make the world a better place.