imo tirtouga is so much better than shellder. Sturdy is a very amazing thing to have on a Shell Smasher, and if Shellder isn't careful it's getting killed before it sets up, where with Tirtouga it doesn't have to worry about getting killed (esepcially since revenge killing is next to impossible thanks to Aqua Jet).
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The Shell Smashers In Little Cup
- Thread starter Superpowerdude
- Start date
This is honestly completely wrong. Tirtouga sets up on SubRoost Krow, resisting Brave Bird and making Sucker Punch do zilch by Shell Smashing and Aqua Jetting. You can't hit Tirtouga when it fails! Tirtouga also consistently OHKOes bulky Mienfoo, which is something I believe Shellder fails to do.Delver said:
Another crucial point when comparing Tirtouga to Shellder is that Shellder (sans Ice Shard and a weakened Drilbur, at which point you miss out on coverage moves) loses to Drilbur, while Tirtouga doesn't. In a metagame where Double Rush is becoming more and more of a threat, Tirtouga is increasingly valuable for destroying Double Rush. It easily finds opportunities to set up thanks to Sturdy and its typing (especially against Murkrow) and can use Aqua Jet to bypass Drilbur's ridiculous 32 Speed that even Jolly +2 Shellder can't touch. It's for this reason that Tirtouga, to me, is the most effective -- it can nearly destroy Double Rush on its own.
The ability to beat Abra, really, is the only significant thing that Shellder has over Tirtouga (who uses Scarf Axew? Tirtouga wrecks the other scarfers with Aqua Jet).
I chose dwebble because it can set up with ease early game and sweep quickly. Also, if you have a problem with a scarfed/agility poke that you cant beat. just bring dwebble in and live the hit and ko with eq or rock blast. Rock blast gets a special mention, able to OHKO abra and other sturdy sweepers that like to set up. I use this set:
Dwebble (M) @ Oran Berry
Trait: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor
Moves are self explanatory, evs are to max out attack and speed. Oran berry heals back health so that dwebble is not fake out/priority bait and can continue sweeping. An amazing poke that has given me unparalleled success.
EDIT: just got a replay to show dwebbles dominance. It is also quite unexpected (not anymore, i guess everyone knows about it now, but it used to be and ive been using this for a good year now)
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc9141283
Dwebble (M) @ Oran Berry
Trait: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor
Moves are self explanatory, evs are to max out attack and speed. Oran berry heals back health so that dwebble is not fake out/priority bait and can continue sweeping. An amazing poke that has given me unparalleled success.
EDIT: just got a replay to show dwebbles dominance. It is also quite unexpected (not anymore, i guess everyone knows about it now, but it used to be and ive been using this for a good year now)
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc9141283
I've only been at this for a little while, but Shellder is the one I have most issues with right after Clamperl.
The Icicle Spear means my conventional Sash/Sturdy revengers don't do anything, and it resists Aqua Jet making it slightly harder to revenge too.
Clamperl hurts most because of that DeepSeaTooth. I normally pack pokes that could happily take a Shell Smash hit and revenge (namely Ferroseed). I'm not sure on the exact stats though.
The other three are so-so. I normally revenge them fairly easily with Abra/Ferroseed. The Dwebbles I see carry Oran Berry, but it never seems to be enough to bring them back to their Study.
Haven't seen Omanyte or Tirtuouga enough to draw a conclusion. The ones I have seen don't take well to Bullet Seed in my experience.
Like I said though, I'm not the most experience player ever.
The Icicle Spear means my conventional Sash/Sturdy revengers don't do anything, and it resists Aqua Jet making it slightly harder to revenge too.
Clamperl hurts most because of that DeepSeaTooth. I normally pack pokes that could happily take a Shell Smash hit and revenge (namely Ferroseed). I'm not sure on the exact stats though.
The other three are so-so. I normally revenge them fairly easily with Abra/Ferroseed. The Dwebbles I see carry Oran Berry, but it never seems to be enough to bring them back to their Study.
Haven't seen Omanyte or Tirtuouga enough to draw a conclusion. The ones I have seen don't take well to Bullet Seed in my experience.
Like I said though, I'm not the most experience player ever.
I have both liked omanyte and tirtouga most as shell smashers, mainly due to their ability to deal with murkrows that doesn't have HP Grass. Also because they resist fake out, the most common priority move.
Not only do they deal with murkrow, because of their potential the opponent has to be very careful about staying in with their murkrow at all.
So if they for example teams up with Misdreavus which naturally lures in Murkrow it creates a very dangerous offensive core.
Not only do they deal with murkrow, because of their potential the opponent has to be very careful about staying in with their murkrow at all.
So if they for example teams up with Misdreavus which naturally lures in Murkrow it creates a very dangerous offensive core.
yep, nasty plot misdreavus together with tirtouga/omanyte makes a great offensive core. Not only because of the reasons you mentioned, but also because Nasty Plot Misdreavus lures in and severely weakens or even kills Croagunk and Lileep, arguably the two biggest counters to shell smashers
check the smog article too on this btw: http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue20/lc_cores
check the smog article too on this btw: http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue20/lc_cores