Gen 3 the smallest kiss in the world (rmt)

[Oxypad]

Been on Netbattle for a while. My fav team right here.
EVs are pretty optimal I'd say. WARNING! Big time rain-dance ludicolo weak!

Hariyama (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 HP / 216 Def / 2 Spd / 216 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Focus Punch
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Whirlwind

Scares tar leads. Blows subs away easily.
Takes hits (cb slaking)--> even better w/ reflect and ls support.
Stalls w/ rest. Knock off and fp mess with a lot.

Tyranitar (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 236 HP / 104 Atk / 170 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Taunt

Not to be brought out until zap/hari have stalled enough (the sand hampers them).
400 hp dd-tar. The only way to go imo since duggy revenge kills
most other forms.

Flygon (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 38 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Rock Slide

CB flygon cuz it lives in sand and levitates. Have to go adamant w/ CB.
OHKOs many ou pokes like jirachi, meta, celebi ,tar. Have to be careful not to status this thing.

Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 16 Def / 226 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Reflect

Using it for its defensive typing and all around kick-ass qualities.
Gengar and starmie especially would cause more trouble than they already do.
Laughs at vil-tar. (Hp bug is so much better on cb flygon anyways.)

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 16 SAtk / 226 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Light Screen
- Rest
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic

This set and the hari set make me proud. Helps for the lack of water resist.
Sleep talk is for skilless pansies. Having ls up while resting is key.
Having pressure for a trait dictates rest, really.
Not like zap is beating steelix/venusaur anytime soon, and most snorlax are not packing immunity.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 42 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Roar
- Spikes
- Substitute

Skarm is good. Period.

Overall it's fun and a little different cuz of hari. Really good win% though.
Since I've been using this team for months and months, I can state the weaknesses:
-DD-Salamence is scary. Zap and skarm together need to wall it depending on <fire move> or <rock slide>.
I have no ice beam lol lol lol.

-Water pokes. Have to blow up on rain dancers and suicune, and swamp if it rests.

-Claydol + skarm combo w/ rest physically walling me. Team is heavily physical attacking.
T-bolt is my only (good) special attack (knock off and fb on flygon don't count).

-Steelix + spinning starmie is another good combo I've seen kick some strong ass.

-Of course, hypnosis gengar is a popular lead. With no beller,
I'd want skarm to be the one asleep in usual circumstances.

Does that cover it all? RATE.

 

[Karrot]

Since I have played this team, it should be easy to give advice... (If you don't remember, Resting Raikou/Cloyster, and also Growl Blissey although I'm not sure if I used Growl or not in that battle.)

About EVs:
You are trying too much to keep even numbers, and I can tell you outright that odd numbers are always superior except when EVing speed or keeping a maxed stat. These are some suggestions:

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 32 Atk / 64 Def / 172 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

This gives you 401 HP (it will take 6 seismic tosses to KO), 343 Atk (a great attack stat for optimal damage, and you're not sacrificing much from losing 20 points of attack), 272 Def (this with the HP stat allows you to survive Dugtrio 100% of the time if you are at full health), and 201 speed.

Those are the EVs I would use for Tyranitar for all the above reasons.

Flygon (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

With DVs set to 30 Atk, 30 Def, and 30 Spdef (if you haven't already) you can keep max speed. The only real reason to run Adamant is for the chance at a 2HKO, but with spikes, knock off, and sand stream, an Adamant nature is less important than outrunning the 100 speed group. The HP you had also accomplished nothing, so it was removed.

Metagross - Add another 4 EVs into defense; this, again, allows you to survive Dugtrio at full health. If you want, try dumping the spdef into speed to hit 222 to outrun the main water types and get an early Explosion (and almost outrun Adamant Tyranitar).

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

Calm is definitely a necessity as you are relying on it very heavily to provide support against special attacks. If also makes a lot of attacks a 4-5HKO instead of a 3-4HKO, such as a max spatk timid Raikou.

Other stuff: Skarmory can try out resttalking (Rest/Sleep Talk/Spikes/Whirlwind) if you're into it, but this leaves you slightly vulnerable to Heracross. If you do use it, use max HP/Spdef and Careful, as this allows you to live through a Snorlax/Flygon's unboosted Fire Blast most (max 42% damage) of the time. It's still a good stall tactic coupled with Zapdos' Pressure, though. It also has a chance to live through Magneton's Thunderbolt.

That's all I could suggest as there's not much wrong with this team besides EVs, but a well played special sweeper can eventually do you in.

 

[Oxypad]

O yea I always make teams with no true special wall. Snorlax, regice, and blissey all have their faults (they all take sand and spikes damage which turns me off). Meta/yama/zap combine and i rely on phazing and screen support.

So i'll comment to Karrot:
#1 - I have enough self-respect to not want to use sleep talk and add more hax and less skill to the game (1 random move out of 3 is chosen. It may or may not result in what you aka "the trainer" wants.) Rest is a good move on its own and I happen to be alright without needing a beller to awaken those that use rest. Plus it makes my team different! Yippie...

The extra hp on tar to make 401 is trivial. I know the whole 6 seismic toss point is true, but will I be up against something that i can't kill that uses seismic toss? Not really. Plus it's assuming seismic toss is the only damage i'd be taking. Tar can be used to take flying, normal, heck even rock attacks and still dd up. I just want max leftovers recovery, which is consistent, and a pretty good shot at surviving adamant duggy. (Most ppl make duggy jolly anyways i bet. It's variable what the consensus is. I'd prolly make it adamant if i used it.)

I guess I goofed. Metagross needs 20 def EVs, not 16 to ensure survival. Never seemed to be an issue (such a slim chance).

I notoriously use slow pokemon, so flygon (my fastest) going jolly would help beat those stupid +speed houndooms w/ wow, but lean me towards not using cb. But god i love cb on flygon it fits it so perfectly. CB multiplies the attack 1.5 times so every point in attack is like amplified by 1.5, and for that i'd go adamant.

I could try a Flygon@leftovers w/ +speed. Swamp will still take decent damage from eq i suppose, but the satisfaction of nailing it for 45-60% w/ cb is lost. CBflygon is my best ddtar counter too.No one should EV tar to take cb flygon eq...

On that note, that spread to take cb duggy eq w/ the defense is a bold strategy. However, then dugtrio has a very good chance of surviving an unboosted 343 attack eq if they meet on switch-ins (it'll do 86-100% to dug). My tar spread satisfied me fully cuz i ended w/ 200 spd (this is the min to outspeed everything after 2 dd, right?), 400 hp (25 hp recovery by leftovers), and a respectable 363 attack just netting the jump from 361 to 363. The chance of killing dugtrio is enhanced w/ an unboosted 363 attack eq. as opposed to 343 att (it'll do 91-100% to dug). With 400 hp and no def, adamant dugtrio will have almost an equal chance of ohkoing tar (it'll do 90-100% to tar).

I see your point w/ making zapdos calm. I thought light screen would be enough and figured pump the 125 base sp. attack 10% more. My team is not all out tss, but the zapdoses on those teams prolly do run calm/252 for a padded water attack.

OK? Cool. Thanks for responding.

 

[Umby]

O yea I always make teams with no true special wall. Snorlax, regice, and blissey all have their faults (they all take sand and spikes damage which turns me off). Meta/yama/zap combine and i rely on phazing and screen support.

Lots of things takes spikes and sand damage.

So i'll comment to Karrot:
#1 - I have enough self-respect to not want to use sleep talk and add more hax and less skill to the game (1 random move out of 3 is chosen. It may or may not result in what you aka "the trainer" wants.) Rest is a good move on its own and I happen to be alright without needing a beller to awaken those that use rest. Plus it makes my team different! Yippie...

Sleep Talk is not necessarily trying to rely on a luck factor. It's making sure that opponents think twice before thinking that a sleeping Pokemon is a free switch in. It's nothing like a random crit or para from Thunderbolt and etc.

The extra hp on tar to make 401 is trivial. I know the whole 6 seismic toss point is true, but will I be up against something that i can't kill that uses seismic toss? Not really. Plus it's assuming seismic toss is the only damage i'd be taking. Tar can be used to take flying, normal, heck even rock attacks and still dd up. I just want max leftovers recovery, which is consistent, and a pretty good shot at surviving adamant duggy. (Most ppl make duggy jolly anyways i bet. It's variable what the consensus is. I'd prolly make it adamant if i used it.)

It's not as trivial as you may think, as often you have to factor in 25% health loss from Spikes damage, so if you desperately need to switch in on that Blissey, there's a pretty decent chance you'll be in a scenario where you need to take an extra ST. It's situational, yes, but it's also legitimate.

I guess I goofed. Metagross needs 20 def EVs, not 16 to ensure survival. Never seemed to be an issue (such a slim chance).

I notoriously use slow pokemon, so flygon (my fastest) going jolly would help beat those stupid +speed houndooms w/ wow, but lean me towards not using cb. But god i love cb on flygon it fits it so perfectly. CB multiplies the attack 1.5 times so every point in attack is like amplified by 1.5, and for that i'd go adamant.

I could try a Flygon@leftovers w/ +speed. Swamp will still take decent damage from eq i suppose, but the satisfaction of nailing it for 45-60% w/ cb is lost. CBflygon is my best ddtar counter too.No one should EV tar to take cb flygon eq...

On that note, that spread to take cb duggy eq w/ the defense is a bold strategy. However, then dugtrio has a very good chance of surviving an unboosted 343 attack eq if they meet on switch-ins (it'll do 86-100% to dug). My tar spread satisfied me fully cuz i ended w/ 200 spd (this is the min to outspeed everything after 2 dd, right?), 400 hp (25 hp recovery by leftovers), and a respectable 363 attack just netting the jump from 361 to 363. The chance of killing dugtrio is enhanced w/ an unboosted 363 attack eq. as opposed to 343 att (it'll do 91-100% to dug). With 400 hp and no def, adamant dugtrio will have almost an equal chance of ohkoing tar (it'll do 90-100% to tar).

You seem to be overly worried about Duggie, who isn't really a threat to your team with Reflect and Spikes in play.

I see your point w/ making zapdos calm. I thought light screen would be enough and figured pump the 125 base sp. attack 10% more. My team is not all out tss, but the zapdoses on those teams prolly do run calm/252 for a padded water attack.

OK? Cool. Thanks for responding.

I don't have much to say that hasn't been touched on, as there aren't really any glaring weaknesses that you can't get by (like Zapdos), and plus I like how the Hariyama set functions for this team. I just have a slight issue with its spread, but that's just a personal reason you shouldn't worry about. If you're paranoid enough though, you'll watch out for mixed sets. Boah isn't a problem, because of Zapdos, but there are other, more novelty sets that you might not want to go ._. over when it cripples two of your teammates.

 

[Karrot]

About 401 HP; taking 6 Seismic Tosses is just an extra luxury. I failed to mention, though, the more important fact: you'll survive an extra layer of spikes with 401 HP, even if it's only by 1. This is especially important since your team lacks Rapid Spin to fend off spikes damage which can overcome the ground-bound half of your team. (And this is another reason odd numbers are superior, I guess.)

Also, you're very right about the Dugtrio and Tyranitar scenario, however, this is only assuming that one of these scenarios happen:
- Dugtrio and Tyranitar are switched in the same turn.
- Tyranitar Taunts Dugtrio as it switches in.
- Tyranitar's Rock Slide misses Dugtrio as it switches in.
(and also the irrelevant scenario in which Tyranitar is damaged a bit before it comes in)

Every other time, whether you decide that Tyranitar should Dragon Dance, Earthquake, or Rock Slide (hit) will secure you a chance to beat Dugtrio unless it CHes.

For your paragraph about Flygon, all I have to say is that Jolly Flygon still functions the same as an Adamant Flygon, except it will not ever 2HKO water types on the switch-in, which Spikes/Knock Off/Sandstream/maybe Toxic covers almost too well. That's the main reason I advised Jolly Flygon; there is rarely a time you will suffer the consequences of not using Adamant, and let's face it, your team really needs that speed for things like the Houndoom you mentioned.

Everything else I did not reply to: I agree completely.

Edit: Gah, Synchronize got in before I did.

You have to admit, though, Hariyama does an excellent job in covering novelty mixed sets because of Thick Fat. Zapdos/Metagross cover the rest of them.

 

[Oxypad]

Three comments

1-I always take spikes and sand into account when building a team. Everyone should. It's tough to spin (ghosts and subs abound) so I don;t believe in having a spinner usually. So i make half my team get around spikes (if they all did it would be terribly boltbeam weak). Though i have recently noticed this steelix/starmie combo that i forget who used on me. Anyways, it kept the spikes at bay and the two complemented one another real nice.

2-Special walls besides blissey, regice, and snorlax: can anyone propose anything different to be used in standard? They're all faulty or too obvious in my eyes. Suicune and raikou count after cming enough. I have used jirachi similarly (it resists sand and wishes). I guess celebi and umbreon count too, but i have a thing against grass types and umbreon may be either marvelous or totally useless in a battle. Metagross w/ special defense, anyone? I'm trying here with light screen Zapdos and thick fat Hari...If only lunatone had better stats and not so many special weaknesses...I would use it (levitates, calm minds, resists sand).
​

3-I figured I'd stir something up with my hatred for sleep talk. Take the example of an overused sleep talker- zapdos w/ hp grass. It is an intimidation factor or as Synchronize called it a "think twice" factor for, say, swampert to face it while it's asleep. Swampert's trainer would consciously choose to rock slide/ice beam/whatever the zapdos while the zapdos' trainer says "ok zapdos, sleep talk!" and they may get lucky and choose hp grass (desirable), or they might choose rest or t-bolt (undesirable). If that's the way people want to play then so be it. During the battle, i'll make a note that this "trainer" (that's what we are, lol) chose to rely on that sort of strategy.

CB sleep talking is another thing, but I still frown upon it. In defense of it, you could say, "...otherwise, sleepers like smeargle and breloom have no reason to fear when putting pokes to sleep." True. So it's not as dismissable of an option as I make it out to be. But things like heal bell, natural cure, and sleep clause help cope with overcoming sleep. If the latter wasn;t enforced, we'd probably all be using sleep talk. But you don;t have to.

If i am to be consistent with my theory, then i would say moves like roar and whirlwind are random too (when there's 3 or more pokes left, mind you), since you/your opponent may or may not want <insert pokemon here> to be dragged out. You don;t know what will happen until the turn plays itself out. The argument should be that phazing is more of a necessity than sleep talking. Which do you see as more of an essential part of a team? Obviously you know my answer. Just try to limit the randomness.

That's my point of view.

 

[touched]

I usually use Blissey for special wallage if I can't spin (which I almost always can), since it can usually take a special hit, get spiked, hit by sand, and still have plenty to heal off. Besides the three main special walls in OU, I've managed to use Hypno with some degree of success. It gets hit by sand and spikes, but it can Wish, put counters to sleep, hit with STAB psychics, and BP CMs if thats your thing. With Insomnia it makes a pretty good Gengar counter, and shuts down many special sweepers who use SubPunch. I've also used a specially defensive Claydol before. Even though it's weak to Ice/Grass/Water it can take 3-4 Crunches from Boah (assuming to special down), HP Grasses from +1 Raikous, and the like.

 

[Umby]

I prefer two-type combos instead of special walls, like Raikou/Zapdos + Celebi. Now, an idea you may not like is Sleep Talk Ludicolo with Seismic Toss + Leech Seed. Now considering Ludi is asleep and uses Sleep Talk, both Seismic Toss and Leech seed are both moves that won't particularly and completely screw over the opponent out of randomness, rather they provide assurance that Ludicolo can still serve as a special tank while sleeping without letting the opponent get away with too much. There's also a few select Psychic types like Hypno and Gardevoir that can take some hits if you EV them right.

 

[Ancien Régime]

(Most ppl make duggy jolly anyways i bet. It's variable what the consensus is. I'd prolly make it adamant if i used it.)

I haven't played ADV competitively in months, but 99% of the time I've seen Duggy it was adamant (people didn't really fear Raikou because Blissey/Lax/SToss Regice were 100% counters, faster stuff like Starmie survives anything Duggy can dish out anyway, and people were more concerned about taking out Bliss/Celebi (even though HP Bug from Adamant won't ohko the bulkier Cels, you generally want to do as much damage as possible so it dies to Spikes damage or to make sure it can't wall your water/electric/ground attacks anymore)/guaranteeing the kill on Tar/etc,)

I've certainly never used Jolly Dugtrio.

 

[Umby]

I see more people use Jolly Duggie for similar reasons why people run Jolly Aero.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Hmm...Jolly Aero is different in a way; it's purpose is not to pick off key ground-based pokemon like Blissey, revenge-kill Gross or something like that, it's to "hit hard and fast".

Duggy is used to target certain specfic pokemon, and the extra attack is needed to do so.

 

[Umby]

However, Aero will hit hard and fast even with Adamant, still outrunning things like Gengar, which is why I suggested the similarity.

 

[Oxypad]

I'd personally make all CBers +attack cuz of the whole 1.5X deal you'd be getting. However there are other finer points to the decision.

The option of going jolly or adamant with CB duggy to most people is team-dependent. If using Lax/Bliss/Regice, raikou, sceptile, and alakazam can be walled more or less and duggy can go adamant.
Adamant takes on what I believe to be the more beastly ou pokes like meta, jirachi, celebi, t-tar,...and still beats modest raikou and hurts the average starmie big-time (doesn't starmie have other roles to not merit it being +speed?).

But technically, speed is duggy's highest base stat so it should get the 10% increase right there. Why not keep it high? Because of the power sacrifice. I stress that with CB, each attack point u put on is like 1.5 points. You get a lot out of attack EVs w/ CB.

Similarly w/ aero...speed is its highest base stat so +speed does grant it the first attack on nearly everything and a chance against jolteon. But like I've been saying, the adamant version seems too good to pass down because of the extra power. You're faster than a lot anyways already, and paralysis can always screw fast pokes up.

 

[Umby]

Btw, stealing because my creative juices aren't flowing.