The UU Viablity Rankings topic.

PK Gaming

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Gotcha. (sorry I was a busy for a while)
Suspect tier and Umbreon have been removed.

My changes (you guys can dispute this)

1. I moved Jynx up to D tier. It's actually potent threat. Hell I can see it being C tier! Once you let that thing set up it's really hard to stop. People seem to forget that it has lovely kiss and is decently fast. Only things holding it back from stardom are fraility and HORRID typing.

2. Moved Raichu up to E tier. I didn't figure he was on par with Pikachu and Parasect. At the end of the day he's a *serviceable* Nasty plotter.


Where you you suppose I place Cradily? C tier?
 

IronBullet

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Guess so, i've seen it on almost every SS team out there andcwith good reason. Curse, and over 500 Special Defense under SS? Yes please.
 
Cradily should definitely be D-rank at best; there are plenty of better walls in UU, ex. Slowking, which definitely outclasses Cradily. Also, I think glaceon should be put into this because it is often overlooked due to a poor movepool, but it definitely should be considered in UU.

@ Ironbullet: Is this on Shoddy? As a frequent UU battler, I rarely see sandstorm teams in UU, due to the fact that Hippopotas is absolutely destroyed by anything with fake out.
 

PK Gaming

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Cradily should definitely be D-rank at best; there are plenty of better walls in UU, ex. Slowking, which definitely outclasses Cradily. Also, I think glaceon should be put into this because it is often overlooked due to a poor movepool, but it definitely should be considered in UU.

Your kidding right? That's not even close to true. Slowking outclassing Cradily? They are an entirely different pokemon with different roles. Cradily is almost impossible to stop once it gets going in the sandstorm. Try it before you knock it.


Glaceon is terrible for this metagame. Only usable on Hail teams.
 
If Cradily is on here for SS teams, shouldn't Glaceon and Stallrein be on here for Hail teams then? All three are prominent walls within weather
 

Bluewind

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Glaceon does not reach 500+ SpDef on sand, has a terrible typing, no status boosting set, has a TERRIBLE typing (adds other 10 reasons). Oh, did I talk about its typing?. Walrein is awesome on hail teams, but now that Froslass is gone they aren't very viable.
 
Ok, I give up on Glaceon and its terrible typing =P But adding onto the weather topic, because Cradily only works in sand, should it be added to a tier called "Super Sandstormers"?
 

PK Gaming

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Glaceon is also still utterly walled by bulky water types even in hail.
And I agree with Bluewind, Froslass basically MADE hail. Taking down Froslass in hail is comparable to...


Killing a needle with a haystack.
 
Any chance we could get Lopunny here, maybe D tier? It's got the most support options of any Pokemon in the tier, and a SubPunch set is surprisingly effective as it can spread Thunder Wave as well, which Chansey and Clefable can't Aromatherapy away due to fear of Focus Punch.
 
Cradily fits pretty well in C rank, as it's somewhat viable even outside of sand with its awesome ability and great defenses. (One of) the best CurseTalkers in the tier.

Also, motion to add Ursaring to, say, C tier for being a BAMF and having viable sets with both of its abilities.
 
Why are rain dance sweepers a special case? I don't think we should treat the pokemon as if they only exist in the rain, but rather consider the support they need, and how that effects their overall effectiveness and thus ranking. We aren't currently looking at how effective these pokemon are within a team context, but rather how effective they are in themselves, ignoring the support required.

This extends to the recently mentioned Cradily. While Cradily can be a great pokemon, I think putting it in the C rank is definitely excessive. It requires you to basically waste a slot on your team for it to be very effective. Not to mention that if someone sees sand going up in UU, they'll probably be expecting a Cradily.

Likewise, Kabutops and Ludicolo don't deserve a "greater-than-S" ranking. That's ridiculous. If it were the case then they would deserve to be banned. Now they're obviously still quite good, as with a reasonable amount of support they can sweep quite effectively, and I would suggest Kabutops for S rank and Ludicolo for A.
 

PK Gaming

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Any chance we could get Lopunny here, maybe D tier? It's got the most support options of any Pokemon in the tier, and a SubPunch set is surprisingly effective as it can spread Thunder Wave as well, which Chansey and Clefable can't Aromatherapy away due to fear of Focus Punch.

Can do.

Cradily fits pretty well in C rank, as it's somewhat viable even outside of sand with its awesome ability and great defenses. (One of) the best CurseTalkers in the tier.

Also, motion to add Ursaring to, say, C tier for being a BAMF and having viable sets with both of its abilities.
Yes. SD Quick Feet Ursaring can MAUL teams. Guts' Ursaring is scary too but it's kinda slow.

Why are rain dance sweepers a special case? I don't think we should treat the pokemon as if they only exist in the rain, but rather consider the support they need, and how that effects their overall effectiveness and thus ranking. We aren't currently looking at how effective these pokemon are within a team context, but rather how effective they are in themselves, ignoring the support required.

This extends to the recently mentioned Cradily. While Cradily can be a great pokemon, I think putting it in the C rank is definitely excessive. It requires you to basically waste a slot on your team for it to be very effective. Not to mention that if someone sees sand going up in UU, they'll probably be expecting a Cradily.

Likewise, Kabutops and Ludicolo don't deserve a "greater-than-S" ranking. That's ridiculous. If it were the case then they would deserve to be banned. Now they're obviously still quite good, as with a reasonable amount of support they can sweep quite effectively, and I would suggest Kabutops for S rank and Ludicolo for A.
I think a good compromise would be to rank said pokemon twice. Once in it's best environment and the second time during a regular match.

Cradily is still pretty good outside of Sandstorm and it feels like a C tier pokemon to me. But I'll move it down if others see it as a good idea.

I don't know much about Kabutops and Ludicolo outside of rain. Kabutops seems to be an effective lead but I have no idea what Ludicolo does.


Edit: Should Torterra / Houndoom / Toxicroak move up? They really are excellent pokemon deserving of A tier status imo.
 
Maybe Houndoom and Toxicroak, since the CroakDoom combo is really good, but Torterra has become one-dimensional. Almost all Torterra will be Rock Polishers, unless it is an experienced player testing a new set. Toxicroak and Houndoom should move up, Torterra should stay.
 
I think a good compromise would be to rank said pokemon twice. Once in it's best environment and the second time during a regular match.
...
I don't know much about Kabutops and Ludicolo outside of rain. Kabutops seems to be an effective lead but I have no idea what Ludicolo does.
To me ranking pokemon under different conditions is like ranking Lucario as A class and +2 Lucario as "Super Awesome Sweeper" Class. Or, perhaps more accurately, making a category of pokemon called "Really good with SR and 3 Layers of Spikes". The fact that the support is coming from a different pokemon in the form of Rain Dance (/Sandstorm/Hail/TR/whatever) shouldn't mean that we ignore that support in considering the pokemon.

Adding the rain category is doing two things:
1. Explaining the sets used.
I didn't think that that was the point of this, as there's no "Ambipom (lead)" or whatever else mentioned. Why do we feel the need to separate rain sweepers but not other things like leads, walls, etc.
2. Treating different roles as different pokemon.
I also don't agree with this. Having diverse roles is part of what makes a pokemon what it is. For example, Venusaur is a very versatile pokemon, and that is a large part of its S-Class ranking. But if we ranked each set separately I'm not sure that any would be S-Class.

In short, I think it's important to take into account all aspects of using a Pokemon in a battle (support required, ability to switch in, threat, unpredictability, etc). And in this case I think the support required is being ignored.
I fully understand if you don't agree with me. This is entirely your initiative and should go whatever way you want it to. These are just my thoughts.
 

PK Gaming

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To me ranking pokemon under different conditions is like ranking Lucario as A class and +2 Lucario as "Super Awesome Sweeper" Class. Or, perhaps more accurately, making a category of pokemon called "Really good with SR and 3 Layers of Spikes". The fact that the support is coming from a different pokemon in the form of Rain Dance (/Sandstorm/Hail/TR/whatever) shouldn't mean that we ignore that support in considering the pokemon.

Adding the rain category is doing two things:
1. Explaining the sets used.
I didn't think that that was the point of this, as there's no "Ambipom (lead)" or whatever else mentioned. Why do we feel the need to separate rain sweepers but not other things like leads, walls, etc.
2. Treating different roles as different pokemon.
I also don't agree with this. Having diverse roles is part of what makes a pokemon what it is. For example, Venusaur is a very versatile pokemon, and that is a large part of its S-Class ranking. But if we ranked each set separately I'm not sure that any would be S-Class.

In short, I think it's important to take into account all aspects of using a Pokemon in a battle (support required, ability to switch in, threat, unpredictability, etc). And in this case I think the support required is being ignored.
I fully understand if you don't agree with me. This is entirely your initiative and should go whatever way you want it to. These are just my thoughts.
Good point I guess. I guess a change is for the best.
 
Why is Cradily (Sandstorm) rankless? Yeah I see Cradily at C but don't you consider it in Sandstorm too? Give it A rank =P

If Cradily in Sandstorm is mentioned why not consider for A rank:

Walrein in Hail
Regirock in Sandstorm
Cacturne in Sandstorm
Exeggutor in Sun
Tangrowth in Sun
 

PK Gaming

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Sorry my edit was incomplete. I guess I can move them up. Can I mention Hail/Sun/SS next to said pokemon so people don't get confused?
 

PK Gaming

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I figured people would complain if I moved it THAT high up. I love how it's one of the few special attackers that ISN'T beaten by Registeel (if sleep clause isn't in effect)

I can see it being a C tier pokemon. There is also I pokemon I plan on suggesting to move up... (all in due time)
 
Maybe Claydol should be higher up. Even if the Rank D is shrinking, I believe it should be higher, simply as it is such a good rapid spinner. Immunity to spikes and toxic spikes (albeit rare in UU) makes it one of the best rapid spinner, not to mention a great ability. Whilst it isd largely outclassed by Donphan, it has the ability to wall both Rock and Fighting types, and can beat SubPunch Aggron, another Donphan is unable to do.
 

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