Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]

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PKGaming said:
Rules
~Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
~No flaming
~Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
~No talk about editing the OFFICIAL smogon tier lists.
This list is in alphabetical order.

S Rank
The titans of the game. They bear massive offensive and defensive capabilities. Pokemon in this tier are extremely diverse, capable of fulfilling multiple roles on both defensive and offensive ends. There is virtually zero opportunity cost in using these Pokemon. They barely require support, if any, from the team and have immense utility to offer.
  • (Arceus-Normal)
  • (Gengar)
  • (Kyogre)
  • (Mewtwo)
  • (Xerneas)
A Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with impressive offensive or defensive capability. These Pokemon are typically the first to be considered to fulfill certain roles and have very little opportunity cost. They require little support to function and may have significant utility.

High
  • (Arceus-Ghost)
  • (Blaziken)
  • (Dialga)
  • (Landorus-T)
  • (Palkia)
  • (Yveltal)
Mid
  • (Darkrai)
  • (Deoxys-A)
  • (Deoxys-S)
  • (Giratina-O)
  • (Groudon)
  • (Ho-Oh)
  • (Klefki)
Low
  • (Arceus-Electric)
  • (Arceus-Poison)
  • (Arceus-Water)
  • (Gliscor)
  • (Gothitelle)
  • (Lugia)
  • (Rayquaza)
  • (Scizor)
  • (Zekrom)
B Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with large offensive or defensive capability. They are designed to serve specific roles for a team and may offer valuable utility. They often need certain amounts of support and/or suffer to a degree from opportunity cost.

High
  • (Arceus-Fairy)
  • (Arceus-Grass)
  • (Arceus-Ground)
  • (Genesect)
  • (Kangaskhan)
  • (Sylveon)
  • (Thundurus)
  • (Wobbuffet)
Mid
  • (Aegislash)
  • (Arceus-Dark)
  • (Excadrill)
  • (Ferrothorn)
  • (Heatran)
  • (Lucario)
  • (Shaymin-S)
  • (Tyranitar)
  • (Whimsicott)
  • (Victini)
Low
  • (Arceus-Rock)
  • (Blissey)
  • (Clefable)
  • (Cloyster)
  • (Greninja)
  • (Hippowdon)
  • (Kyurem-W)
  • (Quagsire)
  • (Sableye)
  • (Scolipede)
C Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with viable offensive or defensive capability. They have certain niches or utility that allow them to perform in specific roles. Reliant on fairly large amounts of team support to function and minimize their inherent flaws. They may also suffer significantly from opportunity cost to the point of being mostly outclassed.

High
  • (Arceus-Fire)
  • (Arceus-Psychic)
  • (Arceus-Steel)
  • (Bronzong)
  • (Charizard)
  • (Diancie)
  • (Giratina)
  • (Gyarados)
  • (Jirachi)
  • (Mawile)
  • (Shuckle)
  • (Skarmory)
  • (Smeargle)
  • (Terrakion)
Mid
  • (Amoonguss)
  • (Arceus-Dragon)
  • (Arceus-Flying)
  • (Ditto)
  • (Forretress)
  • (Gastrodon)
  • (Reshiram)
  • (Tentacruel)
Low
  • (Arceus-Fighting)
  • (Deoxys-D)
D Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with very little offensive or defensive capability. Barely viable, they are very rarely real considerations for specific roles. Reliant on almost the full team for support while still affected by some of their flaws. They may even suffer from massive amounts of opportunity cost to the point of being outright outclassed.
  • (Arceus-Bug)
  • (Arceus-Ice)
  • (Deoxys)
Chansey Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are completely outclassed by other Pokemon or are usually liabilities on a team because of the presence of some common Pokemon in the metagame. These Pokemon may also have crippling flaws that ruin any good qualities they do possess. If you feel like discussing them, DON'T
  • (Chansey)
  • (Any Pokemon that has been rejected for an analysis)
 
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So here's the plan: there won't be an initial viability list. It's going to be you guys that fill it up by submitting mons to be placed in one of the above ranks with arguments based on the criteria in the respective descriptions. If the Ubers mods feel there has been sufficient justification for it to be placed there, the thread will be edited. (in general, we'll wait to see some dissenting opinion and then weigh the two sides) As always, the list will be subject to change and arguments can be brought up later to move a Pokemon up/down than where it was added to previously.

Some quick notes:
-Arceus formes will be split. Meaning Arceus-Normal will be placed separately from Arceus-Fairy (like with analyses)
-Mega Mons will be included as part of the normal forme. For example, all three Mewtwo formes will only be on the list once as part of Mewtwo. (again, like with the analyses)
-There won't be subdivisions for S, D or F rank. There just isn't a point as at that level you are too good/shitty for it to be worth separating.
-Avoid submitting things for F rank. This isn't really an important division and may eventually be removed now that Charizard is actually viable.
-Polop's post is an excellent example of convincing arguments and what I want to see from you guys. You don't have to write a tl;dr (not that it's a bad thing) but you do need to be basing your arguments on the criteria for the ranks, which are the only objective thing we have in this
 
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Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Well imo from that description I think Ho-oh is A+ rank.. it's versatile with great bulk, a capability to run defensive or offensive sets. Its main weakness is needing defog/rapid spin support, but unlike last gen it's much easier than before. Given the right set it can always hurt its counters before gaining HP as it switches out gaining HP with regenerator. We all know how it works.. there's a reason so many people are countering the sh*t out of it right now - and even still it is great.

Hope this was good ^_^
 
Kangaskhan for A+/S

An incredibly powerful and fast sweeper that requires no set up to 2hko almost everything. It possess two of most powerful priority in Ubers: Fake Out and Sucker Punch. With combination of these moves and Return, you can easily kill most pokemon without a scratch. This thing is incredible, probably bordering S tier. It also has no real counter, while fast support arc can threaten with WoW, but they are easily predicted and hit hard by EQ or Return. Giratinas are 2hko'd by Crunch easily. There's no other such potent sweeper that requires ZERO set up that is equivalent to Kangaskhan.

Blaziken for A+

It only requires minimal support: 1 free turn and SR, then it wins. Enough said.
 
I know this is probably the easiest thing to say for this thread. But Groudon and kyogre for S tier, there multitude of roles and support abilities are nigh unmatched. Just the fact of being the most dominant weather starters in the tier clinch A tier. But there stats and movepools push there potential sky high.
 
I disagree with Groudon being S, and even A. It's simply laughably weak in this metagame. It only provides SR utility which is better fulfilled by Hippo and Dialga. Hippo outclasses it except for sun support (only paired with Ho-Oh) and offensive. And even then, offensive sets are easily stopped by supportarc, Yveltal, Kyogre, and other stuff running everywhere. Even then so, offensive sets are probably better fit on Landorus-T anyways. :|

Donner does have that spd set going for him though.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
Doesn't hippo help counter kanga? It can eat unboosted hits very easily and phaze with whirlwind/heal with slack off. I know it's not a hard counter but it is one way of dealing it. Still could be A+/S tho.

Agreeing with blaze A+

Xerneas A. It is easy to hard counter and teams are prepared for its geomancy set, but is a capable late-game sweeper. Also a reasonably good cleric, probably the best in the tier. Also otherwise versatile, with various other useful offensive sets. Not the best poke in the tier but can destroy unprepared teams with fair ease.
 
Mega Gengar offers invaluable utility thanks to shadow tag, and if played correctly it can consistently eliminate key threats. This kind of utility makes it A rank at the very least, probably even A+ rank. I have had great success with it and I cannot stress enough how awesome it is to have such a good trapper on your team.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
I think groudon's lack of recovery makes it certainly not even A this gen, its main advantage being providing sun support. That being said I quite like the double dance set but I can't say I've played it enough to really say whether that should make it even A-.

Mawile somewhere from C+ to D rank.. not sure where people want to stand on that one.

I think shedinja needs to be mentioned in E rank to make it clear it's not worthwhile using this gen. (too much status, too much ho-oh)
 
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Haruno

me irl.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I'd hesitate to even put ogre in S rank, while it may have gotten better as a standalone sweeper, the team support it provided for the last 3 gens are nonexistent. 5/8 turns is simply far too short to abuse rain besides itself. So rather id rate ogre based entirely on what it can do alone.


Edit: I like how all megas and arceus as a whole is impossible to be in S rank lol same with ho oh and xern
 
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I don't think its a good idea to include High/Mid/Low Rankings, especially considering that the metagame has barely formed. I think it would be better to keep the standard rankings and Form the High/Mid/Low ranking once nearly all viable pokemon in Ubers are on this list.
 
I don't think its a good idea to include High/Mid/Low Rankings, especially considering that the metagame has barely formed. I think it would be better to keep the standard rankings and Form the High/Mid/Low ranking once nearly all viable pokemon in Ubers are on this list.
That's a good point, the metagame is kinda fresh to be nuancing things already. I may remove them if they do end up making things too difficult but for now they can still serve the purpose of compromise so I'll leave them and see what happens.
 
Nominating Arceus-Normal for S-Rank.

This generation, Arceus-Normal has gotten better with the decreased usage of it's previous checks and counters. These include, but is not limited to, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Kabutop, and Omastar. Furthermore, the nefting of the Steel type to no longer resist Ghost type moves helps Arceus to break through what once was impossible for it to get pass with a viable moveset, such as Skarmory.

Although, new checks exist for Arceus in the form of support variant of Arceus forms such as Arceus-Rock, such forms has less then a 50% chance to check the mighty Extreme Killer Arceus, given that the said Extreme Killer carries a Lum Berry and is running max speed. Hence, Arceus Normal is able to get past every one of its checks and counters with a viable moveset.

While Arceus-Normal may face competition this generation from Mega-Kangaskhan, Arceus has much better bulk, access to recover, and is able to hold different items.

While it can be argued that Arceus' lack of synergy with the rest of the team holds it back due to being a Normal type, this is actually a blessing in disguise as being a Normal type gives Arceus a lone weakness to the Fighting type, providing it with more opportunity to set up a Swords Dance.

Arceus also provide priority throughout the match to pick off weaken foes which is extremely handy.

All in all, Arceus-Normal is at its peak of performance this generation and is with little doubt, a true S-rank Pokemon.
 
Nominating Xernas for A rank. Being one of the only hyped threats in x&y to come close to living up to the hype, Power Herb xerneas is an offensive nuke, with the ability to sweep immense portions of the metagame with only one turn of setup. Smart usage of xerneas can destroy its counters with minimal support, as Focus Blast or Psyshock can clean up counters with super effective coverage (ususally).

Xerneas is not a one trick pony deer either as it can effectively run a scarf set to check Yveltal, MewtwoX, and most offensive dragons in the tier, as well as function as an impressive revenge killer.

252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even dialga stands a good chance to be 2HKO'd without leftovers.

That's not even mentioning it's potential to run mixed with rock slide to lure ho-oh, arguably the biggest threat this gen.

Feedback: Arceus deserves to be S for sure, Groudon definitely goes no higher than A, maybe even B, but it's high defence as well as sun support is still nice. Kangaskhan is nearly as threatening as Arceus, as 100 speed and sucker punch is pretty deadly in ubers, dunno if I'd put it in S or A though, probably A. It will remain to see whether it has much use outside of weakening walls for an Arceus sweep.
 
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Haruno

me irl.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Nominating Arceus-Normal for S-Rank.

This generation, Arceus-Normal has gotten better with the decreased usage of it's previous checks and counters. These include, but is not limited to, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Kabutop, and Omastar. Furthermore, the nefting of the Steel type to no longer resist Ghost type moves helps Arceus to break through what once was impossible for it to get pass with a viable moveset, such as Skarmory.

Although, new checks exist for Arceus in the form of support variant of Arceus forms such as Arceus-Rock, such forms has less then a 50% chance to check the mighty Extreme Killer Arceus, given that the said Extreme Killer carries a Lum Berry and is running max speed. Hence, Arceus Normal is able to get past every one of its checks and counters with a viable moveset.

While Arceus-Normal may face competition this generation from Mega-Kangaskhan, Arceus has much better bulk, access to recover, and is able to hold different items.

While it can be argued that Arceus' lack of synergy with the rest of the team holds it back due to being a Normal type, this is actually a blessing in disguise as being a Normal type gives Arceus a lone weakness to the Fighting type, providing it with more opportunity to set up a Swords Dance.

Arceus also provide priority throughout the match to pick off weaken foes which is extremely handy.

All in all, Arceus-Normal is at its peak of performance this generation and is with little doubt, a true S-rank Pokemon.
Too high an opportunity and thus making it lose it's chance at S rank
 

blitzlefan

shake it off!
Too high an opportunity and thus making it lose it's chance at S rank
Couldn't this be said for all Arceus forms then?

However, I think A+ is good though, with all the WoW support Arceus right now (Jolly Lum Berry Arceus-Normal is really weak imo.)
 
Here is my personal ranking so far: (sry if I missed something really obvious)
S-Rank
Arceus Normal - Better then ever, fits on most types of teams. Is very versatile and can beat a lot of its checks depending on the movesets. With a lot of set up sweepers like Xerneas and Mega-Blaziken the strongest priority in the game is very useful.

A+
Kyogre - It lost its eternal rain and therefore its S-Rank. However its scarf set become a lot better with defog and not as much ferrothorn and Lati@s. Its other sets are still as viable as in gen5

Gengar - Kills stall and can remove any check for threats like kyogre and E-killer. Absolutely A+ but it needs a turn before trapping and isnt really that strong and that keeps it from S-Rank.

Yveltal - Its defensive sets check a lot of the meta and its offensive breaks both stall with taunt and has untility vs all playstyles with sucker punch. Would have been S if it wasnt for the very much used Xerneas and Arceus Fariry.

Kangaskhan - Amazing utility and wallbreaking powers

Ho-Oh - Defining the metagame with its offensive sets and have a very viable defensive set. Not S because even with defog SR is a problem.

A
Mewtwo - Runs a lot of different sets and hits both hard and fast right of the bat. Almost A+ but it lacks the utility of Gengar and Kangaskhan.

Groudon - Its offensive sets can sweep offensive teams with RP or break defensive with double dance. Its support set checks a lot of physical threats and sets SR reliably.

Blaziken - Give it SR and a free turn and it sweeps you team. Thank god for priority and how frail it is.

Xerneas - Often the opponents team only has a single solid check to geo Xern and therefor its a very potent treat and it can run other set like Rest-Talk, Scarf, EB and LO. However it cant do much to get past its checks.

Zekrom - A incredible revenge killer with scarf and very hard to check if mixed. Immunities to its stabs hurts it.

Arceus Fariry/Water/Electric - The first two provides solid team support and the later is a really dangerous sweeper.

A-
Arceus Rock - Checks Ho-Oh and will-o-wisps stuff, thats about it.

Palkia - One of the few checks to Kyogre, isnt nearly as threatening as in gen5 with the new fairy type and the base power drops.

Dialga - Sets SR and can pressure defogers, Specs is also ok.

Scizor - Can use both CB and its megastone to check stuff like Xerneas, access to moves like toxic, roost, Bullet Punch and SD makes it so it can take many roles.

Deoxys-S and -A - Defog was a huge setback but they are still necessary on Hyper offensive teams.

Lugia- Walls a lot of stuff

Might get on A
Darkrai
Lando-T
Jirachi
More Arceus
Heatran
Aegislash
Giratina
 
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polop

Would you look at the time?
is a Contributor Alumnus
S Rank
The titans of the game. They bear massive offensive and defensive capabilities. Pokemon in this tier are extremely diverse, capable of fulfilling multiple roles on both defensive and offensive ends. There is virtually zero opportunity cost in using these Pokemon. They require no support from the team and have immense utility to offer.
  • Ho-Oh- Incredibly strong and versatile, at the same time checking or countering half of the metagame. Pokemon gain niches simply because they can check Ho-Oh. For example, Arceus-Rock is an otherwise inferior Arceus form outside of countering Ho-Oh. (Even though it takes ~80 percent from Banded Earthquake) You could be using a threat like Arceus-Normal, a devastating Calm Mind user like Arceus-Electric, a solid Yveltal counter like Arceus-Fairy, or even Arceus-Grass, who comfortably takes on all relevant weather starters (fuck you Abomasnow). Ho-Oh can run many different effective sets- Physically Defensive, which is incredibly annoying to break through and can even live random Stone Edges from Support Arceus forms. It can also run a Life Orb set, with Sub+3 attacks or SubRoost. Another set is what I will just call Speed Booster (uses either Flame Charge or Tailwind to clean late-game). Hell, you can run Choice Banded Ho-Oh, which hits like a truck due to the high base power of it's STAB moves. Ho-Oh has influenced the metagame to the point where many Pokemon are running random Rock moves as coverage, ie. Specs Power Gem Dialga, Arceus-Grass running Stone Edge, etc. Ho-Oh also checks/counters half of the metagame provided Rocks are not up (fairly easy to accomplish, given the Defog buff). It can check most variants of Xerneas, Blaziken, Taunt+BU MMX, Yveltal, most Arceus formes, Darkrai (if sleep talk), Aegislash,
Ok so while I do agree Ho-oh is awesome and what not, I really don't know if it should get S rank. IMO its a very strong S rank mon, but the stealth rock weakness (yes it was lessened with defog but you still have to run defog whenever you run ho-oh (Defog is by no means mandatory support for a team)) is something you just have to get rid of to make it, well, viable. Without this support it simply can't offer great utility or use to a team but given this its truly a terror ;_;. It gets 2HKOed by too many things and can't abuse regenerator due to the fact it loses 50% of its HP just switching in. You can't check Xerneas or Arceus Norm or Blaziken because your OHKOed after it.

Admittedly, Defog isn't that much support to provide at all (its not huge / big and other team members do enjoy it) but it still is support crucial to running ho-oh. Ho-oh requires support to function as a tank that takes hits wonderfuly and lashes out status.

Now with this being said if we take a look at the A rank description:
Reserved for Pokemon with impressive offensive or defensive capability. These Pokemon are typically the first to be considered to fulfill certain roles and have very little opportunity cost. They require little support to function and may have significant utility.
Ho-oh seems to be a much better fit.

I'm going to go ahead and nominate Mewtwo for S/A (preferably S) rank. Since we're cramming all Mega's into one mon its extremely diverse. Mega Mewtwo X has the bulk to setup Bulk Ups infront of stuff like Groudon (it can make sure it doesn't do anything like phaze or status it with Taunt. Mega Mewtwo Y's speed is high enough to clean teams up weakened lategame, both can take STAB moves if needed. You really can't tell what set Mewtwo is running when it first switches in.

It has pretty much no opportunity cost for being a stall breaker as the only other thing you'd consider for the job is Yveltal who is way slower.

Mewtwo doesn't need much support to function either, its supposed to stall break for an enemy team, and all you need to do for it to work is to get it in on the enemy wall you want to torment.

If it gets kicked from S for subpar defensive capabilities (face it its no wall) I do believe A rank (once high / low / medium comes out High A or low S idk) is another nice fit.

Xerneas A. It is easy to hard counter and teams are prepared for its geomancy set, but is a capable late-game sweeper. Also a reasonably good cleric, probably the best in the tier. Also otherwise versatile, with various other useful offensive sets. Not the best poke in the tier but can destroy unprepared teams with fair ease.
I think Xerneas better fits S, its probably the most versatile pokemon this generation, and that's in part due to the fact its got a wonderful typing and base stats that let it take on basically whatever role it wants (no seriously it can become a wall that checks special OR offensive dragons (cleric) or a fast speedy sweeper (geomancy) or a lure / thing that spams its ludicrously powerful moonblast and runs moves to defeat counters or a Calm Mind sweeper that can setup more then once and there's even more variations from there).

Its got some dedicated hard counters in Aegislash, but most of those lack reliable recovery and in fact can be beaten by another set. There lack of recovery makes it possible for Xerneas to do stuff like hit them with a strong move and retreat.

If your talking about random mons made viable look no further then Xerneas whose helped made Aegislash / Amoonguss look legitimate since they can beat certain variations of Xerneas. ChestoRest Xerneas actually bypasses opposing Aegislash / Ho-oh / Chansey / Blissey / Bronzong / other steel types used to tank xern except metagross.

If we take a look at the what the post defines as S rank:
The titans of the game. They bear massive offensive and defensive capabilities. Pokemon in this tier are extremely diverse, capable of fulfilling multiple roles on both defensive and offensive ends. There is virtually zero opportunity cost in using these Pokemon. They require no support from the team and have immense utility to offer.
Xerneas already meets two of those.

Opportunity cost has been an issue for Xerneas sort of (I mean why use Xerneas as a cleric when stuff like Sylveon / Clefable / Chansey exists or use Geomancy Xerneas when I could use something like Extremekiller?), but its typing and bases come into play again. Xerneas has the second highest BST in terms of fairies (losing only to Arceus-Fairy), and being a fairy-type gives it the edge when considering anything else to use, due to the fact its a great defensive AND offensive typing that literally nothing but Arceus can very viably use in Ubers. This pretty much results in an extremely high usage (hype is in play sorta but its typing really heavily reduces its opportunity cost since no other fairy has such raw stats and ability to be able to do what xerneas can do aside arc fairy, and using arceus fairy = tremendous opporunity cost).

Some Xerneas sets require immense support (Geomancy for example), but others like LO + 4 attacks require next to none and simply just help wall break for a team. There's a similar deal with Cleric Xerneas and Choice Scarf Xerneas, the former provides aromatherapy for a team and it CAN beat Gengar while the latter is perhaps one of the best revenge killers in the game, being able to stop dragons, mewtwo's, Yveltals, and even clean lategame.

Arceus normal is weird, I can see how it can get S rank and how it could get A rank. Honestly I'm fine with either but anything lower is unacceptable.

Sorry if this post is massive and large and looks like a wall of text :(.
 
Here is my personal ranking so far: (sry if I missed something really obvious)
S-Rank
Arceus Normal - Better then ever, fits on most types of teams. Is very versatile and can beat a lot of its checks depending on the movesets. With a lot of set up sweepers like Xerneas and Mega-Blaziken the strongest priority in the game is very useful.

A+
Kyogre - It lost its eternal rain and therefore its S-Rank. However its scarf set become a lot better with defog and not as much ferrothorn and Lati@s. Its other sets are still as viable as in gen5

Gengar - Kills stall and can remove any check for threats like kyogre and E-killer. Absolutely A+ but it needs a turn before trapping and isnt really that strong and that keeps it from S-Rank.

Yveltal - Its defensive sets check a lot of the meta and its offensive breaks both stall with taunt and has untility vs all playstyles with sucker punch. Would have been S if it wasnt for the very much used Xerneas and Arceus Fariry.

Kangaskhan - Amazing utility and wallbreaking powers

Ho-Oh - Defining the metagame with its offensive sets and have a very viable defensive set. Not S because even with defog SR is a problem.

A
Mewtwo - Runs a lot of different sets and hits both hard and fast right of the bat. Almost A+ but it lacks the utility of Gengar and Kangaskhan.

Groudon - Its offensive sets can sweep offensive teams with RP or break defensive with double dance. Its support set checks a lot of physical threats and sets SR reliably.

Blaziken - Give it SR and a free turn and it sweeps you team. Thank god for priority and how frail it is.

Xerneas - Often the opponents team only has a single solid check to geo Xern and therefor its a very potent treat and it can run other set like Rest-Talk, Scarf, EB and LO. However it cant do much to get past its checks.

Zekrom - A incredible revenge killer with scarf and very hard to check if mixed. Immunities to its stabs hurts it.

Arceus Fariry/Water/Electric - The first two provides solid team support and the later is a really dangerous sweeper.

A-
Arceus Rock - Checks Ho-Oh and will-o-wisps stuff, thats about it.

Palkia - One of the few checks to Kyogre, isnt nearly as threatening as in gen5 with the new fairy type and the base power drops.

Dialga - Sets SR and can pressure defogers, Specs is also ok.

Scizor - Can use both CB and its megastone to check stuff like Xerneas, access to moves like toxic, roost, Bullet Punch and SD makes it so it can take many roles.

Deoxys-S and -A - Defog was a huge setback but they are still necessary on Hyper offensive teams.

Lugia- Walls a lot of stuff

Might get on A
Darkrai
Lando-T
Jirachi
More Arceus
Heatran
Aegislash
Giratina
This is really spot on, I agree with most of this. However, I do feel Kyogre is debatable and is bordering A+ and S rank. It's scarf set is more powerful than ever with the easy removal of hazards and as you said, Ferrothorn not being common anymore and Lati@s losing it's Soul Dew.
 
I'm just going to put Rayquazza for A out here. His swords dance and dragon dance set are both extremely destructive and it has access to V-Create to beat Steel types. While he doesn't always fit on teams- and Blaziken and Arceus are probably better at Swords Dance sweeping- he has great coverage and the ability to tear through walls.
 
Jirachi for C+

Jirachi was negatively impacted by a couple of changes this generation. First of all, the lack of permanent rain means that Jirachi can no longer check the likes of Kyurem-W and Mewtwo as well as it could in Generation V, as both of them can fry Jirachi with Fire attacks more easily now. Secondly, the Ghost and Dark weaknesses Jirachi gained this generation prevent it from dealing with Darkrai after it has slept something and makes Jirachi vulnerable to the deadly Yveltal. Also notable is the nerf The previous weaknesses Jirachi had (lack of reliable recovery outside of Wish+Protect, Groudon bait, etc) have not disappeared either, though Defog support helps prevent Jirachi from getting worn down by Spikes. Fortunately, not all is lost for the Wish master. Its typing allows Jirachi to check Power Herb Xerneas, as Jirachi can easily eat a +2 Hidden Power Fire or Focus Blast and paralyze Xerneas with Thunder Wave. Jirachi can proceed to wear Xerneas down with Iron Head. Jirachi can also set up Stealth Rock fairly reliably and pass Wishes to its teammates. Though the existence of Fairies reduces the need of Jirachi's Dragon resistance, it never hurts to have a back-up to Outrage or Draco Meteor spam. Overall, Jirachi is still viable on teams that need a Xerneas check and a Stealth Rock user all in one.

By the way, I hope the actual viability rankings do not resemble the rankings offered so far in this thread. Inflation is everywhere (Extremekiller isn't S material, Rayquaza isn't A material, etc).
 

Edgar

Ban Celesteela
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Nominating Mewtwo for S rank

So hard to play around in this generation, in my opinion, Mewtwo is a really good utility mon and it's hard to prepare for every set. Mewtwo's different Mega Evolutions have completely different checks and counter. Where as Mega Mewtwo X is countered by Arceus-Fairy/Aegislash or a bulky ground type, Mewtwo Y destroys them if you make the assumption that your opponent is using a Mega Mewtwo X, which is why you need to have a check for both. Mega Mewtwo Y on the other hand, it's harder to play around, Fire Blast makes Aegislash completely useless against it, it also destroys common physical walls like Groudon, Hippowdon, Lugia, Giratina etc.. having access to Taunt is also a big deal as it prevents those pokemon mentioned above from regaining health. To top it off, Mega Mewtwo X has a very intimidating base 190 Atack stat, which is one of the highest in the game while Mega Mewtwo Y has a whopping base 194 Sp.Atk (highest in the game). Those are just the Mega Evolutions, you still need to prepare for regular Mewtwo, it also has a perfect movepool, access to Recover, Taunt, Psystrike, Will-o-Wisp, all kindz of meat. I hope I convinced you that this godly pokemon deserves a place on the S rank.


edit:

ps: didnt see polop's post
 
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Nominating Mewtwo for S rank

So hard to play around in this generation, in my opinion, Mewtwo is a really good utility mon and it's hard to prepare for every set. Mewtwo's different Mega Evolutions have completely different checks and counter. Where as Mega Mewtwo X is countered by Arceus-Fairy/Aegislash or a bulky ground type, Mewtwo Y destroys them if you make the assumption that your opponent is using a Mega Mewtwo X, which is why you need to have a check for both. Mega Mewtwo Y on the other hand, it's harder to play around, Fire Blast makes Aegislash completely useless against it, it also destroys common physical walls like Groudon, Hippowdon, Lugia, Giratina etc.. having access to Taunt is also a big deal as it prevents those pokemon mentioned above from regaining health. To top it off, Mega Mewtwo X has a very intimidating base 190 Atack stat, which is one of the highest in the game while Mega Mewtwo Y has a whopping base 194 Sp.Atk (highest in the game). Those are just the Mega Evolutions, you still need to prepare for regular Mewtwo, it also has a perfect movepool, access to Recover, Taunt, Psystrike, Will-o-Wisp, all kindz of meat. I hope I convinced you that this godly pokemon deserves a place on the S rank.


edit:

ps: didnt see polop's post
I disagree. Mewtwo's checks/counters are different depending on the Mega-Evolution but there are overlaps. Yveltal, for instance, checks both forms nicely with access to Sucker Punch and Oblivion Wing. Aegislash can also check both forms to a degree as it avoids the OHKO from Mega-Mewtwo-Y's Fire Blast and can retaliate back with a combination of Gyro Ball and Shadow Sneak given that Aegislash does not switch in on Fire Blast. Moreover, Arceus-Fairy does not get "destroy" by Mega-Mewtwo-Y and the checks/counters to MMY is no difference from those of regular Mewtwo, except in cases where MMY's higher special defense come into play.

All in all, MMY is a terrifying threat and should be prepared for, however, despite it's high special attack stats, it is unable to secure many OHKO's and in turn gets punish harshly, especially given it's abysmal physical defense. MMX on the other hand, suffers a severe case of 4MSS and thus cannot get past certain obstacles once it sets up.

In summation, Mewtwo's two Mega-Evolution gives it a level of unpredictability not available to the other Uber Pokemon, but it's versatility pales in comparison to fellow Ubers such as Yveltal and its damage output is nowhere near the level of Kyogre, who is also commonly use to punch major holes in the opponent's defense. For these reasons, I believe A+ is a rank best suited for Mewtwo.
 

Edgar

Ban Celesteela
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
I disagree. Mewtwo's checks/counters are different depending on the Mega-Evolution but there are overlaps. Yveltal, for instance, checks both forms nicely with access to Sucker Punch and Oblivion Wing. Aegislash can also check both forms to a degree as it avoids the OHKO from Mega-Mewtwo-Y's Fire Blast and can retaliate back with a combination of Gyro Ball and Shadow Sneak given that Aegislash does not switch in on Fire Blast. Moreover, Arceus-Fairy does not get "destroy" by Mega-Mewtwo-Y and the checks/counters to MMY is no difference from those of regular Mewtwo, except in cases where MMY's higher special defense come into play.

All in all, MMY is a terrifying threat and should be prepared for, however, despite it's high special attack stats, it is unable to secure many OHKO's and in turn gets punish harshly, especially given it's abysmal physical defense. MMX on the other hand, suffers a severe case of 4MSS and thus cannot get past certain obstacles once it sets up.

In summation, Mewtwo's two Mega-Evolution gives it a level of unpredictability not available to the other Uber Pokemon, but it's versatility pales in comparison to fellow Ubers such as Yveltal and its damage output is nowhere near the level of Kyogre, who is also commonly use to punch major holes in the opponent's defense. For these reasons, I believe A+ is a rank best suited for Mewtwo.
And what happens before you send in that Yveltal lol, remember it's a check, not a counter, so it can't come in, also Yveltal also has to play around a 50/50 with Sucker Pumch, it requires prediction, which is not reliable for some people.

252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Yveltal: 304-358 (77.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO The mixed set can't even survive a Low Kick with Stealth Rock up lol. It needs prior Defogging from something like Arceus-Fairy which is a solid Mega Mewtwo X counter so Idk if you would really both those for that purpose.

>Shadow Sneak Aegislash

252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Arceus-Fairy: 160-190 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Mewtwo stops Arceus from regaining health or it can recover itself, Calm Mind is also a possibility, making it a 2HKO ez.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y: 272-324 (77 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO LOL.
252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 176-208 (54.3 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Idk what are u even talking about friend.
 
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