Project Threats to OU Cores: Round 2: Ferrothorn + Hippowdon

Status
Not open for further replies.

Alumn

Mais c'était sûr en fait, c'était sûr
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
approved by Ruft
op from Dragon Claw


:ss/conkeldurr:Threats to OU Cores:ss/dragapult:

Pokemon rely on offensive and defensive synergy to function. Cores of Pokemon are units within teams that are built specifically to take advantage of these synergies between Pokemon. Many teams are built around such cores. The premise of this thread is to analyse the best threats to OU cores, with the aim to support teambuilding by providing a list of cores that may threaten your team and suggest viable Pokémon that can be added in response. If anyone has suggestions for cores you can PM me.


Procedure:
1. Each round I will post a core of 2 Pokemon, these will be proven cores in the meta that are difficult to handle. Rounds will last about 5 days.

2. Posters will have the chance to post threats to the core. This is one Pokemon that can counter/check at least one member of the core, while not being itself countered by either member. Example: Conkeldurr is a threat to the core of defensive Ferrothorn + Black Sludge Toxapex, because it can outspeed and OHKO both Pokémon with its moves.
3. At the end of the round, I will archive all viable threats listed in the below post and post a new core, highlighting the most effective and creative threats, as well as explaining why others don't make the cut.

Rules:
1. Please follow up your reservations in a timely fashion. I will allow 48 hours after a reservation to make the post. After 2 days are up, if you have not made your post, then someone else may reserve that Pokemon.
2. Please only post Pokemon that are viable in OU and don't post sets specifically for this core, additionally your threat should not be complete deadweight against teams that do not feature the specific core.

2.1. This does not mean that you can't submit Pokemon that are not on the viability rankings, I will make exceptions to certain unranked Pokemon I deem viable enough to archive.
3. Each poster may post up to 2 threats. Each set counts as a different threat.
4. When posting, please explain yourself. Calcs are not necessary, but please list more reasons than something simple like type synergy. Be descriptive so that other posters and I can fully understand your reasoning behind your nomination. Please paste the full set of your threat, moves, EVs, ability, Showdown importable is preferred.
5. Different sets can be posted for the same Pokemon so long as they serve a different purpose from the other set.
6. Be respectful to others. Constructive criticism is allowed, as long as it is done in a proper and non-hostile manner.

Clarifications Regarding Threats:
A threat to the core must check or counter at least one member and cannot be countered by the other. A threat does not necessarily need to be able to switch into both members of the core, but it should be difficult/annoying to switch into for the members of the core. Of course, the biggest threats can counter both members of the core.

> Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.

> Addtionally, Pokemon A also checks Pokemon B if, Pokemon A is able to deal with a particular set of Pokemon B, and Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, while Pokemon B is using that particular set, then Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax. Example: Clefable can switch into Scarf/Specs Dragapult without much fear, but is unable to deal with Dragon Dance variants of Dragapult.

> Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.
 

Alumn

Mais c'était sûr en fait, c'était sûr
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Threats Archive
Below are the threats we have analysed so far, clicking on the core will reveal icons for the Pokémon that were identified as threats. There's also a link to where the core was posted, so you can scroll down below that post and find the specific threatening set, in the case it is not immediately obvious.


 
Last edited:

Alumn

Mais c'était sûr en fait, c'était sûr
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
:ss/Primarina: Round 1 Core: Primarina + Salazzle :ss/Salazzle::heavy duty boots:
Welcome to OU Core Threats! We will start with the first common core in the meta - Calm Mind Substitute Primarina + Nasty Plot Salazzle. This core threatens with status (burns and poison), setup moment and good STAB's. Those two Pokémon are working pretty well together, Salazzle putting a Toxic on everything and Primarina checking other Pokémon sets and can setup sweep if possible. Salazzle can Nasty Plot on Pokémon who don't touch it and launch a powerful Sludge Wave / Flamethrower on pretty much everything with an excellent 366 Speed, making it really fast compared to other Pokémon. This core become more and more popular on ladder beating Webs, balanced and Offense teams. Let's go with this core!
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 44 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Moonblast

Salazzle (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
As always, all postings are appreciated! But please, only post OU viable Pokémon and do not post sets specifically catered to this core, your threat should not be complete deadweight against teams that do not feature Primarina + Salazzle.
 

Ruft

You're boned
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Won OST Predictions
:ss/reuniclus:
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Thunder

Magic Guard Reuniclus serves as a solid check to Salazzle, as it is unaffected by Toxic and threatens it with its super-effective Psychic STAB. It serves as a check to Primarina as well, as it will generally win a Calm Mind war with ease thanks to being able to attack Primarina's weaker physical side with Psyshock (and it's not bothered by a Scald burn to boot).
Of course it serves as a solid potential wincon in general, even when not facing this core.

252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 160-189 (37.7 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 318-375 (75 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 413-486 (149 - 175.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 144-169 (33.9 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Thunder vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 192-229 (52.8 - 63%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Primarina: 157-187 (43.2 - 51.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 0 SpA Life Orb Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Primarina: 391-461 (107.7 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Last edited:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Heat Crash

The standard Curse Snorlax set is a pretty good counter to this core. Rest means that Snorlax doesn't care too much about being Toxic'd/burned, especially since only Salazzle can really threaten to set up during Rest (and even at +3, Salazzle can't 2HKO a full HP Snorlax with Sludge Wave, while Snorlax 2HKO's back with an unboosted Body Slam). Primarina can burn with Scald and be annoying with Substitute, but at +1, even a burned Snorlax has a good chance of breaking Primarina's substitute, while Primarina needs to get to +5 to 2HKO Snorlax with Moonblast consistently.

252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 94-112 (17.9 - 21.3%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 187-222 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- 91.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 234-276 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 84-100 (16 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 252-297 (48 - 56.6%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Primarina: 115-136 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 Atk burned Snorlax Body Slam vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Primarina: 86-102 (23.6 - 28%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Last edited:
Zeraora as a Check.
zeraora.gif

Zeraora @ Magnet
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Grass Knot
Zeraora outspeeds both Primarina and Salazzle easily. Primarina dies for easily for obvious reasons, while Salazzle has a very good chance to be OHKOed by Plasma Fists. Obviously Zeraora can't switch in because it is made of tissue paper, but it is a great way to offensively check this core.
 
Last edited:
Double Dance + Rest Necrozma as a Counter



Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Necrozma is something I've seen occasionally since its introduction this gen, typically on HO teams. Most of these ran a standard set of CM + Autotomize with Photon Geyser and Heat Wave. However, I recently encountered this set on the high ladder, and it functions well. It is capable of punishing most mons incapable of dealing significant damage and freely sets up. It functions very well against the core of Lazzle+Prima as well. With CM + max Sp.Def, it beats them both in a CM/NP war easily. Phs.Def can also be run on this set, but Sp.Def more easily handles this core.

 
Last edited:

:ss/Primarina: Round 1 Core: Primarina + Salazzle :ss/Salazzle::heavy duty boots:

Welcome to OU Core Threats! We will start with the first common core in the meta - Calm Mind Substitute Primarina + Nasty Plot Salazzle. This core threatens with status (burns and poison), setup moment and good STAB's. Those two Pokémon are working pretty well together, Salazzle putting a Toxic on everything and Primarina checking other Pokémon sets and can setup sweep if possible. Salazzle can Nasty Plot on Pokémon who don't touch it and launch a powerful Sludge Wave / Flamethrower on pretty much everything with an excellent 366 Speed, making it really fast compared to other Pokémon. This core become more and more popular on ladder beating Webs, balanced and Offense teams. Let's go with this core!
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 44 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Moonblast

Salazzle (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot

As always, all postings are appreciated! But please, only post OU viable Pokémon and do not post sets specifically catered to this core, your threat should not be complete deadweight against teams that do not feature Primarina + Salazzle.
The elefant in the room is pex with haze. Yes getting toxiced sucks, but salazzle eats a ton from scald. Also Pex naturally resists all stabs from the core
 
The elefant in the room is pex with haze. Yes getting toxiced sucks, but salazzle eats a ton from scald. Also Pex naturally resists all stabs from the core
I think you've missed the point. If Toxapex wants to Haze on Salazzle it has to take a Toxic and then loses 1v1 to Sub Primarina later. Toxapex isn't the elephant in the room - its the exact Pokemon that Salazzle is designed to lure and cripple for Primarina.
 
Scarf Toxtricity as a check

:ss/toxtricity:
Toxtricity @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Volt Switch
- Sludge Wave

This thing outspeeds both Pokemon and deals with them neatly in most situations. Boomburst OHKOs Salazzle and has a chance to 2HKO Primarina after rocks. Overdrive has about a 50% to 2HKO +1 Primarina at full, leaving it at worst with 15% HP remaining if you switch in on calm mind. It can also switch in to any move from either of the displayed sets. Though in practice you do need to be careful of Primarina carrying Psychic.

Outside of specifically dealing with this core, Scarf Toxtricity can serve as a solid sweeper while maintaining a large portion of its wallbreaking potential. It has a solid matchup against offense, boasting similar speed to adamant scarf Vish. Against balance, it basically necessitates something to deal with Ferrothorn. Outside of that though, it is a solid pick, but relies heavily on prediction as any choiced Toxtricity set naturally does.

252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salazzle: 298-351 (107.5 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salazzle: 255-302 (92 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 265-312 (73 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- 32% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Toxtricity Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 240-284 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. +1 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 174-211 (47.9 - 58.1%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Toxtricity Sludge Wave vs. +1 248 HP / 44+ SpD Primarina: 162-192 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toxtricity: 177-208 (60.8 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toxtricity: 93-110 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 92.7% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toxtricity: 141-166 (48.4 - 57%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toxtricity: 84-99 (28.8 - 34%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toxtricity: 211-249 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Martin

I'm Batman
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
:ss/dracovish:
Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Outrage

Dracovish is one of the most threatening Pokemon to this core. If it gets in versus Salazzle or Primarina without a Sub up, it pretty much guarantees a KO if there isn't a Water Absorber in the back. It can come in on a either of Salazzle's STABs or on a double, which isn't exactly a difficult task given how well it pairs with stuff that baits Salazzle in. It is worth noting that a full health Primarina can actually take 1 hit from Vish, but if it has any chip damage on it at all it gets one-shotted.

:ss/seismitoad:
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Seismitoad doesn't appreciate Toxic from Salazzle, but it can take any attack it throws at it with ease and KOs back with EQ. EQ is what really makes this stand out versus this core though, because it prevents Primarina setting up Sub in Seis's face, which in turn means that it can't consistently block off Toxic. Of course the alternative is to try and speed creep Primarina while still running Earth Power, but it doesn't help if Prim has already subbed up + I often find that Primarina itself often tries to creep other Pokemon that are creeping Conk, so you have to be careful to get the balance right for lost bulk. Setting that aside, one of the other big advantages of running this is that it gives you an excuse to run Relaxed, which in turn means that you always EQ Corviknight assuming it's not dropping too many Speed IVs. If you don't wanna run Seismitoad (completely understandable), EQ Gastrodon can do the exact same thing here+can Amnesia alongside Primarina to boot.
 
Last edited:
:ss/dracovish:
Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Outrage

Dracovish is one of the most threatening Pokemon to this core. If it gets in versus Salazzle or Primarina without a Sub up, it pretty much guarantees a KO if there isn't a Water Absorber in the back. It can come in on a either of Salazzle's STABs or on a double, which isn't exactly a difficult task given how well it pairs with stuff that baits Salazzle in. It is worth noting that a full health Primarina can actually take 1 hit from Vish, but if it has any chip damage on it at all it gets one-shotted.
Yeah about that..
 

Alumn

Mais c'était sûr en fait, c'était sûr
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Good. I was pretty busy with posting the round 2 but it was worth waiting. Thanks for your input guys. You really destroyed this core with those threats xD
Highlights


Threats of the Round:

,
,
: Those 3 mons just annihilates this core and easily switches in, with the first two winning the CM war vs Primarina and the latter two don't fear status from Salazzle.

,
,
: Those 3 mons can pressure that core with powerful STABs, nonetheless they can't switch in safely. Seismitoad with Earthquake is a pretty good technique to get rid of that core.

Additional Notes:

: Dracovish destroys that core but he's banned now. Good bye dear friend :psycry:
:leftovers: :ss/ferrothorn: Round 2 Core: Ferrothorn + Hippowdon :ss/Hippowdon: :rocky helmet:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Body Press
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed

Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
Ferrothorn + Hippowdown is a strong defensive core, checking pretty much everything and putting their hazards on a switch out. Ferrothorn can recover through Leech Seed and Hippowdon can Slack Off. Hippowdon checks most physical attackers + he can Whirlwind Pokémon who tries to setup on him, where Ferrothorn is for covering the Grass / Water weaknesses of Hippowdon.

As always, try to post only OU viable Pokémon and don't post sets specifically for this core. Additionally, your threat should not be complete deadweight against teams that do not feature the core of Ferrothorn + Hippowdon. Have fun with threatening this one, and happy counterteaming!
 
Last edited:
SubCM Keldeo​


Keldeo-Resolute @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind
- Substitute​

Substitute Calm Mind Keldeo is a pretty big threat to this core. It sets up a sub freely on Hippowdon, forcing it out with the threat of an OHKO. From there, it can Calm Mind on Ferrothorn's Body Press, securing a minimum of 70% with a Secret Sword the next turn. Alternatively, Keldeo could attack on the switch, either dealing significant damage with Secret Sword or threatening a burn with Scald. (It's worth noting that once burned, Ferrothorn's body press cannot break Keldeo's sub). By threatening both Ferrothorn and Hippowdon with burns and significant damage, Calm Mind Keldeo serves as an effective check to this core.
 
Last edited:

Jordy

is a Top Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Discord Leader
:ss/primarina:
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 44 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Moonblast

Considering the Ferrothorn provided lacks Power Whip or Iron Head, it isn't actually an effective check to Substitute Primarina, and instead serves as Substitute bait. Primarina can set up a Substitute against Ferrothorn and slowly rack up Calm Mind boosts, or attempt to cripple Ferrothorn with a burn. Hippowdon doesn't want to deal with Primarina for obvious reasons.
 
Last edited:

Finchinator

Treat People With Kindness
is a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
BW Circuit Champion
:Hydreigon:

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon

It can live any hit from either and Hippowdon can only Whirlwind it out. At +0, it is doing around 90 to Hippowdon with Draco Meteor and at +0 it is destroying Ferrothorn with Flamethrower. At +2, it just cleans both up with even more ease. In general, teams with this core tend to rely on Clefable to soft check NP Hydreigon or Excadrill/Dragapult to RK it, so Hydreigon with a little support and aggression can easily collect multiple kills.
 

Hatterene @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Psychic
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire
- Calm Mind

4 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 93-109 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 12.3% chance to 4HKO (22 - 25.7% recovered)
+1 4 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 138-163 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO (32.7 - 38.9% recovered)
+2 4 SpA Hatterene Draining Kiss vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 184-217 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO (43.3 - 51.2% recovered)
4 SpA Hatterene Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 166-196 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 4 SpA Hatterene Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 247-292 (59.2- 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

8 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 90-106 (28.3 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

+1 4 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 372-440 (105.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hatterene: 50-59 (15.7 - 18.5%) -- possible 6HKO

Hatterene works as an incredible check against this core, not only being able to find ways to set up CM, but also prevents these guy from setting up hazards against it as well. Hat can also bounce off the leech seed and not be phazed out by hippo.

Main reason I have made this out as a check is that Alumn cunningly putting 8 atk evs on hippo means that Eq goes from a 4HKO to a potential to 3HKO, assuming all are max rolls. This essentially means that Hat cannot safely switch in on an eq and use cm, as it can be killed in the worst case scenario. Even opting to go for draining kiss instead of cm will still eventually end in hat going down, assuming that kiss deals minimum damage and heals minimum health. I find the best time to switch in is on the 4th turn of sand, where hat can eventually pressure hippo with kiss and cm once it can take 2 eqs.

Obviously, the best case is to always switch in on ferro, seeing as the best thing it can do to hat is knock off, and essentially hat can calm mind up and knock ferro with mystical fire. It can then stall out sand turns with hippo with kiss and then heal enough to a point where it can calm mind up.
 
Last edited:

Ruft

You're boned
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Won OST Predictions
:ss/rotom-heat:
Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Discharge
- Toxic

Rotom-H KOs Ferrothorn with Overheat and cripples Hippowdon with Toxic (or blows it back with Nasty Plot-boosted Overheat as well). However, it should be wary of switching directly into Ferrothorn, as being hit by Knock Off gives it a glaring weakness to Stealth Rock. Worst case scenario against this core is that its Heavy-Duty Boots get knocked off on the switch to Ferrothorn and that Hippowdon continuously uses Whirlwind on the switch as well, racking up Stealth Rock damage. Therefore, bringing it in safely, with Teleport Clefable for instance, is the way to go.
 
Last edited:
:SS/Clefable:

Clefable @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Calm Mind / Thunderbolt
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower

The breaker is back. Strong Moonblast STAB that will always 2HKO defensive Hippo, so when Hippo switches in on this (which it loves) Clef is able to scare it out again or straight up kill it. Magic Guard allows it to not get chipped by rocks or sand, which is always nice due to it not having Leftovers recovery. Ferrothorn gets dominated by Flamethrower, guaranteeing an OHKO, or getting a Calm Mind or Moonblast on the predicted switch once your opponent knows you carry Flamethrower. Good recovery, overall a badass mon that gets overshadowed by its better sets. Could run TBolt for dominating Pex as well.

Hippo:
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 234-277 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 351-413 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 351-413 (83.5 - 98.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Ferrothorn:
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 400-473 (113.6 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bonus Pex:
252+ SpA Life Orb Clefable Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 166-198 (54.6 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
:SS/Corviknight:
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Taunt

Bulk Up Corviknight can easily take advantage of this core really easily come in on Hippowdown as it tries to set up hazard or recover, switching to Ferrothorn can happened, but ideally you don't wanna get leech seeded before you can taunt ferrothorn, Taunt shutdowns both of these mons moves to set up hazard , leech seed , or whirlwind Corviknight out and then you can both of them as set up fodder and Hippowdown can't do anything at all , and Ferrothorn can only Knock Off and Body Press becomes weaker as Corviknight keeps on setting up Bulk Up increasing it's defense and PP stalling them at the same.
 
Last edited:
chandelure.gif

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Energy Ball
Chandelure absolutely decimates this core if given a free switch as Hippowdon is 2HKOed by all of its offensive moves, and Ferrothorn can't switch in for obvious reasons. Spamming Shadow Ball against teams with this core is usually a good idea because Toxapex is commonly paired with this core, and it can't avoid a potential 2HKO if Stealth Rocks is up, even if its running max special defense. God forbid Toxapex's special defense gets lowered.
The only problem with Chandelure as a check is that it struggles to switch in because of the hazards set by this core and potential Leech Seeds and Earthquakes.
 
Last edited:

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Facade / Earthquake

The Earthquake is prepared for the Toxapex as their potential teammate.

The pure fighting power from Conkeldurr is insane if there is no resist or immunity. By sacrificing the longevity, it gets the power to OHKO Ferrothorn guaranteed and 2HKO Hippowdown guaranteed(in a very high probability if leftovers). However, there are still some notices behind this set.

1. Because the chip damage from sand, helmet, burn and iron barb stack together would be huge, Conkeldurr should stay healthy at least in a good state. So a wish-teleport Clefable is ideal teammate to create space for the Conkeldurr to break this defensive core.

2. You shouldn't directly switch into Ferrothorn to take the Knock Off and lose the status-attack boost. The best scenario to beat this core is Clefable teleport the Conkeldurr against Ferrothorn, get burned and Close Combat to destroy them.

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 219-258 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 408-480 (115.9 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 237-280 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Potential teammates, beware of Brave bird)

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 141-167 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
(If the Black Sludge were knocked)
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 204-240 (67.1 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top