Battle Spot Thundurus (Singles)

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[OVERVIEW]

Unlike Thundurus-T, Thundurus can situationally utilize Prankster to anti-lead against Whimsicott and stall out defensive foes with a combination of Substitute, Toxic, and Protect. Furthermore, Thundurus boasts a base 111 Speed stat that allows it to outspeed Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana, meaning it is not obligated to use Agility to outspeed said threats, unlike Thundurus-T. However, Thundurus still suffers from its frailty and easily folds to weak super effective attacks and even strong neutral attacks. In addition, its Special Attack stat, while good and able to be boosted further with Nasty Plot, falls short of OHKOing the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Primarina without relying on prior damage or setup. If outspeeding Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana is not particularly a concern, Thundurus-T is a better alternative as an attacker.


[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Thundurus can afford to run Toxic stall set thanks to Prankster letting it put even faster foes on timer and set Substitute with priority. Substitute protects Thundurus from an attack at a cost of a quarter of its health and also blocks harmful status moves. Toxic puts passive foes like Porygon2 and Cresselia on a timer, punishing them as they switch in predicting offensive sets. Protect allows Thundurus to evade an attack for a turn and gain an extra turn of recovery from Leftovers while its foe takes another turn of damage from Toxic poison. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Celesteela and Tapu Fini that do not mind Toxic and prevents Thundurus from being completely passive.

Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Bold nature allows Thundurus to avoid the OHKO from +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence all the time and Ice Punch from Mega Metagross with considerable chance after Stealth Rock damage, survive +1 Ice Fang from Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower from Mega Charizard Y at full health, and make a Substitute that blocks Celesteela's Heavy Slam once. 124 Speed EVs let Thundurus outspeed unboosted Gyarados, preventing Dragon Dance variants from outspeeding and 2HKOing it. 132 EVs can be invested into Special Defense to prevent Celesteela's Flamethrower from breaking Substitute and lower the chance of getting 3HKOed by defensive Tapu Fini. Leftovers provide passive recovery and allows Thundurus to stall out its foe as long as possible. Prankster allows Thundurus to execute its status moves with +1 priority.

Usage Tips
========

It is a promising idea to send Thundurus into Pokemon it naturally threatens with Thunderbolt, such as Celesteela and Toxapex. Use Toxic on a switch-in that can take on Thundurus with ease and wear down the likes of Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, and Cresselia. Thundurus can also be used against offensive threats such as Mega Salamence that it can survive a hit from; it also excels at Toxic stalling against these threats as thanks to Prankster allowing it to set Substitute almost always before it is attacked. Repeatedly use Substitute and Protect to wear down foes with Toxic, or use Thunderbolt for extra damage if the foe is too passive to break Substitute or threaten Thundurus in a significant way.

Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and able to take advantage of Thundurus. Tyranitar causes problems in the same vein due to its immunity to Prankster moves and massive special bulk in sand, and it can even Pursuit trap Thundurus. Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls, and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini, brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn, provides Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn, while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.


[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
item: Electrium Z / Fightinium Z
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Thundurus's Special Attack by two stages and allows it to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire metagame. STAB Thunderbolt hits Water-types and Flying-types super effectively while dishing out good damage against neutral targets. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone, Rotom-H, and Hippowdon, which are not too bothered by Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice. With Fightinium Z and after a Nasty Plot, all of the aforementioned foes are either OHKOed or significantly weakened. Said Z-Move also puts a heavy dent in Mega Charizard X. Hidden Power Ice hits threats like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Taunt improves Thundurus's matchup against foes that would need multiple Nasty Plot boosts to be surmounted, but bear in mind that forgoing Hidden Power Ice for Taunt makes opposing Landorus-T and Tapu Bulu very problematic to deal with.

Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment with a Timid nature lets Thundurus take advantage of its excellent Speed tier by outspeeding Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Garchomp. Electrium Z turns Thunderbolt into Gigavolt Havoc, which OHKOes Mega Metagross when unboosted and Porygon2 and Cresselia at +2. Alternatively, Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into All-Out Pummeling, letting Thundurus hit Steel-types that would otherwise need the inaccurate Focus Blast to be defeated and putting a significant dent in most neutral targets after a Nasty Plot boost.

Usage Tips
========

Thundurus is very frail and therefore should not be switched into any attack. U-turn and Volt Switch from teammates or double switching when a foe is sure to switch out is the most ideal time for Thundurus to enter the field. Thundurus can take advantage of its typing to set up Nasty Plot against Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Scizor or while forcing out Water- and Flying-types. The majority of the time, opponents will send in a Pokemon such as Heatran, Magnezone, or Mamoswine that can handle both Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, as those two moves are the most expected attacks from Thundurus. All-Out Pummeling must be preserved to KO such foes so Thundurus won't fall short to KO them or have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to dispose of them. Against offensive teams, Thundurus generally lacks an opportunity to set up and therefore can be used as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker. If Thundurus opts to run Taunt, it can be used to anti-lead against passive walls like Hippowdon and Skarmory.

Team Options
========

Hippowdon can provide Stealth Rock support and put a foe to sleep with Yawn to let Thundurus set up safely. In return, Thundurus takes on Tapu Fini and Celesteela, which prove to be annoyances for Hippowdon to deal with due to the former usually carrying Taunt and the latter running Leech Seed. Setup sweepers like Mimikyu, Blaziken, and Mega Gyarados can fit alongside Thundurus because they benefit from its ability to put a dent on bulky foes and potentially create a setup opportunity by shutting down passive foes with Taunt. When using Thundurus, it is important to ensure the team is prepared for Mega Charizard X and Volcarona, since the former can set up on Thundurus lacking All-Out Pummeling and the latter can do the same against unboosted Thundurus without much fear. Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Choice Scarf Garchomp can handle one or both of them.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

Taunt is an option on the SubToxic set to prevent recovery from walls, but forgoing Thunderbolt leaves Thundurus completely helpless against Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Mega Gengar, and essentially any Pokemon immune to Toxic. Life Orb trades Thundurus's longevity in exchange for the ability to achieve OHKOs on Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard Y, and Primarina and improve its unboosted attacks. Sludge Wave allows Thundurus to OHKO Tapu Koko on the switch and dispose of Assault Vest Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rock or with a Life Orb boost, but this forces Thundurus to forgo Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice and either hinder its ability to break through defensive walls or significantly worsen its matchup against Ground-types. Grass Knot nails Hippowdon and Mamoswine, but the former is easily dealt by simply using Taunt, while the latter falls to Focus Blast. Psychic OHKOes Naganadel on the switch and 2HKOes Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross, but it is generally an inferior coverage move. Thundurus can use Thunder Wave alongside Prankster as a last resort to shut down a setup sweeper, but this is difficult to pull off due to the prevalence of Tapu Lele and the fact that Thunder Wave is very hard to fit in the moveset.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Attackers**: Due to Thundurus's frailty, faster threats like Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Mega Gengar, and Greninja can easily KO it with their attacks. Although none of them can safely switch into Thundurus, they can KO or force it out without much trouble. Choice Scarf users with sufficient raw power such as Tapu Lele can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine force Thundurus to think twice before using STAB Thunderbolt simply with their presence. Mispredicting against the former two is detrimental due to both of them being common Choice Scarf users, but they are harshly punished if carelessly switched into Hidden Power Ice. Mamoswine, in particular, doesn't mind any attack from Thundurus barring Focus Blast and the rare Grass Knot. In return, Mamoswine easily punishes SubToxic sets with Icicle Spear while at worst putting a dent on Nasty Plot variants using Ice Shard, putting Thundurus in KO range of priority moves.

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest, although it despises getting stalled by Toxic. Ferrothorn and Venusaur don't even mind Toxic and easily take Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out Pummeling.

**Chansey**: Due to its ridiculous special bulk, Chansey barely takes any damage from unboosted attacks, only falling to +4 All-Out Pummeling. Chansey also doesn't mind Toxic due to Nature Cure removing status conditions upon switching out. However, Chansey will have a harder time against Thundurus with Nasty Plot and Taunt.
 
Last edited:
Going to take a while to get this out of WIP, testing EV spread in ladder.

2/21 Edit: Ready for QC.
 
Last edited:

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Managed to check this too, a bit more flexibility given how uncommon this thing but there's also not much to say about it in general since the SubToxic set is the important part. Looks good so far, consider this 1/2 after implementing these changes.


[OVERVIEW]

Unlike its Therian forme, Thundurus can situationally utilize Prankster to anti-lead Whimsicott and stall out defensive foes with a combination of Substitute, Toxic, and Protect. Thundurus bolsters 111 Speed stat that outspeeds Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana, meaning it is not obligated to use Agility to outspeed said threats like Thundurus-T would be. However, Thundurus still suffers from its fraility and easily folds to weak supereffective attacks or even strong neutral attacks. In addition, its Special Attack stat, while it is good and can be boosted further with Nasty Plot, falls short to OHKO the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Primarina without relying on prior damage, Life Orb, or setup. Life Orb isn't really common If ouspeeding outspeeding Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana is not particularly a concern, Thundurus-I is a better alternative as an attacker.


[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 184 HP / 132 Def / 68 SpD / 124 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Thundurus can afford to run Toxic stall set thanks to Prankster letting it put even faster foes on timer and set Substitute with priority. Substitute not only protects Thundurus from an attack at a cost of the quarter of its health but it also blocks harmful status moves. Toxic puts passive foes like Porygon2 and Cresselia into a timer, punishing them as they switch in predicting offensive sets. Protect allows Thundurus to evade an attack for a turn and gain extra turn of recovery from Leftovers while its foe takes another turn of damage from Toxic. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Celesteela and Tapu Fini that do not mind about Toxic and prevents Thundurus from being completely passive.


Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Bold nature allows Thundurus to avoid OHKO from +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence and Ice Punch from Mega Metagross after Stealth Rock damage true for Salamence but not Metagross, that's a roll in favor of Metagross after Stealth Rock, survive +1 Ice Fang from Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower from Mega Charizard Y at full health, and make a Substitute that blocks Celesteela's Heavy Slam once. 124 Speed lets Thundurus outspeed unboosted Gyarados, preventing Mega variants from outspeeding and 2HKOing it. Nitpicky but "Dragon Dance variants" would be more appropriate here since 132 EVs can be invested into Special Defense to prevent Celesteela's Flamethrower from breaking Substitute and lower the chance to get 3HKOed by defensive Tapu Fini. Leftovers provide passive recovery and allows Thundurus to stall out its foe as long as possible. Prankster allows Thundurus to execute its status moves with +1 priority.


Usage Tips
========

It is a promising idea to send Thundurus to Pokemon it naturally threatens with Thunderbolt, such as Celesteela and Toxapex. Use Toxic on a switch-in that can take on Thundurus with ease and wear down the likes of Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, and Cresselia. Thundurus can also be used against offensive threats such as Mega Salamence that it can survive a hit from. Thundurus excels at Toxic stalling against these threats as well thanks to Prankster allowing it to set Substitute almost always before it is attacked. Repeat Substitute and Protect to wear down foes with Toxic, or use Thunderbolt for extra damage, if the foe is too passive to break Substitute or threaten Thundurus in a significant way.



Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can take advantage of Thundurus. Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini and brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn while providing Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.


[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thuderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
item: Electrium Z / Fightinium Z / Life Orb Either remove Life Orb or move it to Other Options
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Thundurus' Special Attack by two stages and allows it to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire metagame. Thunderbolt is a STAB move that hits Water-types and Flying-types supereffectively while dishing out good damage against neutral targets. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone, Rotom-H, and Hippowdon that are not too bothered by Thundurus' Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice. With Fightinium Z and after a Nasty Plot, all of the aforementioned foes are either OHKOed are significantly weakened. Said Z-move also puts a heavy dent on Mega Charizard X. Hidden Power Ice rounds up Thundurus' coverage by hitting threats like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Taunt improves Thundurus' matchup against foes that would need multiple Nasty Plot boosts to be surmounted, but bear in mind that forgoing Hidden Power Ice for Taunt makes opposing Landorus-T and Tapu Bulu very problematic to deal with.


Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment with Timid nature lets Thundurus take advantage of its excellent Speed tier by outspeeding Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Garchomp. Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into All-Out-Pummeling and lets Thundurus hit Steel-types which would otherwise need inaccurate Focus Blast to be defeated and puts a significant dent to most neutral targets after a Nasty Plot boost. Life Orb trades Thundurus' longevity in exchange of its ability to achieve OHKO's on Mega Gyarados, Mega Chaizard Y, and Primarina and improve its unboosted attack. Reminder to add mention of Electrium Z and remove Life Orb from here, it's nowhere near common enough to be on the main set.


Usage Tips
========

Thundurus is very frail and therefore should not be switched into any form of an attack. U-turn and Volt Switch from teammates or double switching on when an opponent is sure to switch out is the most ideal time for Thundurus to enter the field. Thundurus can take advantage of its typing to set up Nasty Plot against Steelt-types such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Scizor or do so while forcing out Water- and Flying types. Majority of the time, opponents will send in a Pokemon that can handle both Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, as the two moves are the most expected attacks from Thundurus. All-Out-Pummeling must be preserved to KO foes with said traits such as Heatran, Magnezone, and Mamoswine so that Thundurus won't fall short to KO them or have to rely on inaccurate Focus Blast to dispose of them. Against offensive teams, Thundurus genearlly finds hard time to find setup opportunities without dedicated team support so it can simply be used early to punch holes in the opposing team with variety of coverage move it has. This sentence reads awkwardly in a few spots, might want to check that If Thundurus opted to run Taunt, it can be used to anti-lead passive walls like Hippowdon and Skarmory.



Team Options
========

Thundurus, especially if it carries Z-crystal, desires an opportunity to set up Nasty Plot to dish out as much damage as possible to foes. Dedicated leads like Hippowdon can provide a Stealth Rock support and put a foe to sleep with Yawn to let Thundurus set up safely. Thundurus in return takes on Tapu Fini and Celesteela which would prove to be annoyances for Hippowdon to deal with due to the former usually carrying Taunt and the latter's Leech Seed. Setup sweepers like Mimikyu, Blaziken, and Mega Gyarados can fit alongside Thundurus because it benefits from Thundurus' ability to put a dent on bulky foes or potentially creating a setup opportunity for Mimikyu by shutting down passive foes with Taunt. When using Thundurus, it is important to ensure the team is prepared against Mega Charizard X and Volcarona since the former can set up on Thundurus lacking All-Out-Pummeling and the latter can do the same against unboosted Thundurus without much fear. Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Choice Scarf Garchomp can handle one or both of them.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

Taunt is an option in SubToxic set to prevent recovery from walls, but forgoing Thunderbolt leaves Thundurus completely helpless against Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Mega Gengar, or essentially any Pokemon immune to Toxic. Sludge Wave allows Thundurus to OHKO Tapu Koko on the switch and dispose of Assault Vest Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rock or with Life Orb boost, but this forces Thundurus to forgo Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice and either hinder its ability to break through defensive walls or significantly worsen its matchup against Ground-types. Grass Knot nails Hippowdon and Mamoswine, but the former is easily dealt by simply using Taunt while the latter falls to Focus Blast. Psychic OHKOs Naganadel on switch and 2HKOs Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross but it is generally an inferior coverage move. Thundurus can use Thunder Wave and this can be used as a last resort to shut down a setup sweeper with Prankster, but this is difficult to be a successful strategy due to the prevalence of Tapu Lele and the fact that it is very hard to justify in the moveset.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Attackers**: Due to Thundurus' fraility, faster threats like Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Mega Gengar, and Greninja can easily KO it with their attacks. Although none of them can safely switch into Thundurus, they can KO or force out Thundurus without much trouble. Choice Scarf users with sufficient raw power such as Tapu Lele can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine forces Thundurus to think twice before using STAB Thunderbolt simply with their presence. Mispredicting against the former two is detrimental due to both of them being a common Choice Scarf user, but they are harshly punished if carelessly switched into Hidden Power Ice. Mamoswine in particular doesn't mind about any attack from Thundurus barring Focus Blast and easily punishes SubToxic sets with Icicle Spear, while at worst putting a dent on Nasty Plot variants using Ice Shard, putting Thundurus in a range of priority moves.

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest. Ferrothorn and Venusaur doesn't even mind about Toxic and easily takes Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out-Pummeling.

**Chansey**: Due to its ridiculous special bulk, Chansey barely takes any damage from unboosted attacks and can be only taken down with +4 All-Out-Pummeling. Chansey also doesn't mind Toxic due to Nature Cure removing status conditions upon switching out. However, Chansey will have harder time against Thundurus with Nasty Plot and Taunt.
 
Managed to check this too, a bit more flexibility given how uncommon this thing but there's also not much to say about it in general since the SubToxic set is the important part. Looks good so far, consider this 1/2 after implementing these changes.
Implemented, added some benchmarks for Gigavolt Havoc.
 
Just on the note of the sub-tox ev spread. Shifting evs from (Sp)Def into HP usually makes for a more efficient spread. HP is the priority when EVing for bulk with few exceptions. Those being very high HP bast stat with low base defence(s), e.g Hariyama, Wailord, Chansey's Def.
So I'd propose changing the spread to 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 180 HP / 132+ Def Thundurus: 112-132 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 180 HP / 132+ Def Thundurus: 124-148 (70 - 83.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 180 HP / 132+ Def Thundurus: 130-154 (73.4 - 87%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 180 HP / 68 SpD Thundurus in Sun: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%)
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 100+ Def Thundurus: 116-137 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 100+ Def Thundurus: 130-154 (70.2 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 100+ Def Thundurus: 136-160 (73.5 - 86.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Thundurus in Sun: 153-181 (82.7 - 97.8%)

The rolls to KO after SR all happen to be the same in these exact cases, but you can see how the damage is a lightly lower % across the board.
 
Just on the note of the sub-tox ev spread. Shifting evs from (Sp)Def into HP usually makes for a more efficient spread. HP is the priority when EVing for bulk with few exceptions. Those being very high HP bast stat with low base defence(s), e.g Hariyama, Wailord, Chansey's Def.
So I'd propose changing the spread to 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 180 HP / 132+ Def Thundurus: 112-132 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 180 HP / 132+ Def Thundurus: 124-148 (70 - 83.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 180 HP / 132+ Def Thundurus: 130-154 (73.4 - 87%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 180 HP / 68 SpD Thundurus in Sun: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%)
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 100+ Def Thundurus: 116-137 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 100+ Def Thundurus: 130-154 (70.2 - 83.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 244 HP / 100+ Def Thundurus: 136-160 (73.5 - 86.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 36 SpD Thundurus in Sun: 153-181 (82.7 - 97.8%)

The rolls to KO after SR all happen to be the same in these exact cases, but you can see how the damage is a lightly lower % across the board.
Implemented, please free to point out anything else to add / change / remove.
 
Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can take advantage of Thundurus. Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini and brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn while providing Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.
Include, in the same vein as Heatran and Ferrothorn, that Tyranitar is also a problem for this set. Dark type is immune to Prankster [Toxic] this gen and Thunderbolt does very little to Tyranitar in sand.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thunderbolt

[...]

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest. Ferrothorn and Venusaur doesn't even mind about Toxic and easily takes Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out-Pummeling. I think specify Offensive Thundurus in relation to the Bulu comment since Bulu really hates switching in on the Toxic Thund.
comments in bold. Very little to add, which is good.
 
comments in bold. Very little to add, which is good.
Implemented:

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can take advantage of Thundurus. Tyranitar causes the problem in the same vein due to its immunity to Prankster moves and its massive special bulk in Sandstorm, and can even Pursuit trap Thundurus in addition.
**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest, although it despises getting stalled by Toxic.
Also fixed that typo thingy.
 

Aaronboyer

Something Worth Fighting For
is a Contributor to Smogon
Amateur GP Check, Implement what you want ADD REMOVE (COMMENTS)
Unlike its Therian forme, Thundurus can situationally utilize Prankster to anti-lead Whimsicott and stall out defensive foes with a combination of Substitute, Toxic, and Protect. Thundurus bolsters 111 Speed stat that outspeeds Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana, meaning it is not obligated to use Agility to outspeed said threats like Thundurus-T would be. However, Thundurus still suffers from its fraility frailty and easily folds to weak supereffective super effective attacks or even strong neutral attacks. In addition, its Special Attack stat, while it is good and can be boosted further with Nasty Plot, falls short to OHKO the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Primarina without relying on prior damage or setup. If outspeeding Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana is not particularly a concern, Thundurus-T is a better alternative as an attacker.


[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Thundurus can afford to run Toxic stall set thanks to Prankster letting it put even faster foes on a timer and set Substitute with priority. Substitute not only protects Thundurus from an attack at a cost of the quarter of its health but it also blocks harmful status moves. Toxic puts passive foes like Porygon2 and Cresselia into a timer, punishing them as they switch in predicting offensive sets. Protect allows Thundurus to evade an attack for a turn and gain an extra turn of recovery from Leftovers while its foe takes another turn of damage from Toxic. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Celesteela and Tapu Fini that do not mind about Toxic and prevents Thundurus from being completely passive.


Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Bold nature allows Thundurus to always avoid OHKO from +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence all the time and Ice Punch from Mega Metagross with considerable chance after Stealth Rock damage, survive +1 Ice Fang from Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower from Mega Charizard Y at full health, and make a Substitute that blocks Celesteela's Heavy Slam once. 124 Speed lets Thundurus outspeed unboosted Gyarados, preventing Dragon Dance variants from outspeeding and 2HKOing it. 132 EVs can be invested into Special Defense to prevent Celesteela's Flamethrower from breaking Substitute and lower the chance to get 3HKOed by defensive Tapu Fini. Leftovers provide passive recovery and allows Thundurus to stall out its foe as long as possible. Prankster allows Thundurus to execute its status moves with +1 priority.


Usage Tips
========

It is a promising idea to send Thundurus to Pokemon it naturally threatens with Thunderbolt, such as Celesteela and Toxapex. Use Toxic on a switch-in that can take on Thundurus with ease and wear down the likes of Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, and Cresselia. Thundurus can also be used against offensive threats such as Mega Salamence that it can survive a hit from. Thundurus excels at Toxic stalling against these threats as well thanks to Prankster allowing it to set Substitute almost always before it is attacked. Repeat Substitute and Protect to wear down foes with Toxic, or use Thunderbolt for extra damage, if the foe is too passive to break Substitute or threaten Thundurus in a significant way.



Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can take advantage of Thundurus. Tyranitar causes the problem in the same vein due to its immunity to Prankster moves and its massive special bulk in Sandstorm, and can even Pursuit trap Thundurus in addition. Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini and brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn while providing Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.


[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
item: Electrium Z / Fightinium Z
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Thundurus' Special Attack by two stages and allows it to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire metagame. Thunderbolt is a STAB move that hits Water-types and Flying-types supereffectively super effectively while dishing out good damage against neutral targets. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone, Rotom-H, and Hippowdon that are not too bothered by Thundurus' Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice. With Fightinium Z and after a Nasty Plot, all of the aforementioned foes are either OHKOed or are significantly weakened. Said Z-move also puts a heavy dent on Mega Charizard X. Hidden Power Ice rounds up Thundurus' coverage by hitting threats like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Taunt improves Thundurus' matchup against foes that would need multiple Nasty Plot boosts to be surmounted, but bear in mind that forgoing Hidden Power Ice for Taunt makes opposing Landorus-T and Tapu Bulu very problematic to deal with.


Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment with Timid nature lets Thundurus take advantage of its excellent Speed tier by outspeeding Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Garchomp. Electrium Z turns Thunderbolt into Gigavolt Havoc that features OHKO on Mega Metagross when unboosted and on Porygon2 and Cresselia at +2. Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into All-Out-Pummeling and lets Thundurus hit Steel-types which would otherwise need inaccurate Focus Blast to be defeated and puts a significant dent to in most neutral targets after a Nasty Plot boost.


Usage Tips
========

Thundurus is very frail and therefore should not be switched into any form of an attack. U-turn and Volt Switch from teammates or double switching on when an opponent is sure to switch out is the most ideal time for Thundurus to enter the field. Thundurus can take advantage of its typing to set up Nasty Plot against Steelt Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Scizor or do so while forcing out Water- and Flying types. Majority of the time, opponents will send in a Pokemon that can handle both Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, as the two moves are the most expected attacks from Thundurus. All-Out-Pummeling must be preserved to KO foes with said traits such as Heatran, Magnezone, and Mamoswine so that Thundurus won't fall short to KO them or have to rely on inaccurate Focus Blast to dispose of them. Against offensive teams, Thundurus generally lacks an opportunity to set up and therefore can be used as an early- or mid-game breaker. If Thundurus opted to run Taunt, it can be used to anti-lead passive walls like Hippowdon and Skarmory.



Team Options
========

Thundurus, especially if it carries Z-crystal, desires an opportunity to set up Nasty Plot to dish out as much damage as possible to foes. Dedicated leads like Hippowdon can provide a Stealth Rock support and put a foe to sleep with Yawn to let Thundurus set up safely. Thundurus in return takes on Tapu Fini and Celesteela which would prove to be annoyances for Hippowdon to deal with due to the former usually carrying Taunt and the latter's Leech Seed. Setup sweepers like Mimikyu, Blaziken, and Mega Gyarados can fit alongside Thundurus because it benefits from Thundurus' ability to put a dent on bulky foes or potentially creating a setup opportunity for Mimikyu by shutting down passive foes with Taunt. When using Thundurus, it is important to ensure the team is prepared against Mega Charizard X and Volcarona since the former can set up on Thundurus lacking All-Out-Pummeling and the latter can do the same against unboosted Thundurus without much fear. Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Choice Scarf Garchomp can handle one or both of them.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

Taunt is an option in SubToxic set to prevent recovery from walls, but forgoing Thunderbolt leaves Thundurus completely helpless against Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Mega Gengar, or essentially any Pokemon immune to Toxic. Life Orb trades Thundurus' longevity in exchange of for its ability to achieve OHKO's on Mega Gyarados, Mega Chaizard Charizard Y, and Primarina and improve its unboosted attack. Sludge Wave allows Thundurus to OHKO Tapu Koko on the switch and dispose of Assault Vest Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rock or with Life Orb boost, but this forces Thundurus to forgo Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice and either hinder its ability to break through defensive walls or significantly worsen its matchup against Ground-types. Grass Knot nails Hippowdon and Mamoswine, but the former is easily dealt by simply using Taunt while the latter falls to Focus Blast. Psychic OHKOs Naganadel on the switch and 2HKOs Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross but it is generally an inferior coverage move. Thundurus can use Thunder Wave and this can be used as a last resort to shut down a setup sweeper with Prankster, but this is difficult to be a successful strategy due to the prevalence of Tapu Lele and the fact that it is very hard to justify to fit in the moveset.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Attackers**: Due to Thundurus' fraility frailty, faster threats like Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Mega Gengar, and Greninja can easily KO it with their attacks. Although none of them can safely switch into Thundurus, they can KO or force out Thundurus without much trouble. Choice Scarf users with sufficient raw power such as Tapu Lele can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine forces Thundurus to think twice before using STAB Thunderbolt simply with their presence. Mispredicting against the former two is detrimental due to both of them being common Choice Scarf users, but they are harshly punished if carelessly switched into Hidden Power Ice. Mamoswine(AC), in particular(AC), doesn't mind about any attack from Thundurus barring Focus Blast and the rare Grass Knot. In return, Mamoswine easily punishes SubToxic sets with Icicle Spear, while at worst putting a dent on Nasty Plot variants using Ice Shard, putting Thundurus in a range of priority moves.

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest, although it despises getting stalled by Toxic. Ferrothorn and Venusaur doesn't don't even mind about Toxic and easily takes Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out-Pummeling.

**Chansey**: Due to its ridiculous special bulk, Chansey barely takes any damage from unboosted attacks and can be only taken down with +4 All-Out-Pummeling. Chansey also doesn't mind Toxic due to Nature Cure removing status conditions upon switching out. However, Chansey will have a harder time against Thundurus with Nasty Plot and Taunt.
 
Last edited:

Fireflame

Silksong when
is a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Aaronboyer: ADD REMOVE (COMMENTS)
Fireflame: Remove Add Comments Ignore amcheck (AC)= add comma (RC)= remove comma (AH)= add hyphen (RH)= remove hyphen
[OVERVIEW]

Unlike its Therian forme Thundurus-T, Thundurus can situationally utilize Prankster to anti-lead against Whimsicott and stall out defensive foes with a combination of Substitute, Toxic, and Protect. Thundurus bolsters a base 111 Speed stat that outspeeds allows it to outspeed (Thundurus outspeeds them, not the Speed stat) Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana, meaning it is not obligated to use Agility to outspeed said threats,(AC) unlike like Thundurus-T would be. However, Thundurus still suffers from its fraility frailty and easily folds to weak supereffective super effective attacks or and even strong neutral attacks. In addition, its Special Attack stat, while it is good and can able to be boosted further with Nasty Plot, falls short to OHKO of OHKOing the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Primarina without relying on prior damage or setup. If outspeeding Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana is not particularly a concern, Thundurus-T is a better alternative as an attacker.

[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Thundurus can afford to run a Toxic stall set thanks to Prankster letting it put even faster foes on a timer and set Substitute with priority. Substitute not only protects Thundurus from an attack at a cost of the a quarter of its health but it also and (not a fan of "not only this but that" sentences in analyses) blocks harmful status moves. Toxic puts passive foes like Porygon2 and Cresselia into on a timer, punishing them as they switch in predicting offensive sets. Protect allows Thundurus to evade an attack for a turn and gain an extra turn of recovery from Leftovers while its foe takes another turn of damage from Toxic poison. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Celesteela and Tapu Fini that do not mind about Toxic and prevents Thundurus from being completely passive.


Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Bold nature allows Thundurus to always avoid the OHKO from +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence all the time ("always all the time" is redundant) and Ice Punch from Mega Metagross with considerable chance after Stealth Rock damage, survive +1 Ice Fang from Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower from Mega Charizard Y at full health, and make a Substitute that blocks Celesteela's Heavy Slam once. 124 Speed lets EVs let Thundurus outspeed unboosted Gyarados, preventing Dragon Dance variants from outspeeding and 2HKOing it. 132 EVs can be invested into Special Defense to prevent Celesteela's Flamethrower from breaking Substitute and lower the chance to get of getting 3HKOed by defensive Tapu Fini. Leftovers provide passive recovery and allows Thundurus to stall out its foe as long as possible. Prankster allows Thundurus to execute its status moves with +1 priority.


Usage Tips
========

It is a promising idea to send Thundurus into Pokemon it naturally threatens with Thunderbolt, such as Celesteela and Toxapex. Use Toxic on a switch-in that can take on Thundurus with ease and wear down the likes of Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, and Cresselia. Thundurus can also be used against offensive threats such as Mega Salamence that it can survive a hit from. Thundurus also excels at Toxic stalling against these threats as well thanks to Prankster allowing it to set Substitute almost always before it is attacked. Repeat using Substitute and Protect to wear down foes with Toxic, or use Thunderbolt for extra damage,(RC) if the foe is too passive to break Substitute or threaten Thundurus in a significant way.


Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can take advantage of Thundurus. Tyranitar causes the problems in the same vein due to its immunity to Prankster moves and its massive special bulk in Sandstorm sand, and it can even Pursuit trap Thundurus in addition ("and it can even" kinda implies this tone that "in addition" gives). Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls,(AC) and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini,(AC) (combine these into a parallel list) and brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn,(AC) while providing provides Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn,(AC) (remember the "while" rule I told you about in Zyg-C) while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.


[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
item: Electrium Z / Fightinium Z
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Thundurus's Special Attack by two stages and allows it to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire metagame. STAB Thunderbolt is a STAB move that hits Water-types and Flying-types supereffectively super effectively while dishing out good damage against neutral targets. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone, Rotom-H, and Hippowdon,(AC) which that are not too bothered by Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice. With Fightinium Z and after a Nasty Plot, all of the aforementioned foes are either OHKOed or are significantly weakened with All-Out Pummeling. Said Z-Move also puts a heavy dent on Mega Charizard X. Hidden Power Ice rounds up Thundurus' coverage by hitting hits threats like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Taunt improves Thundurus's matchup against foes that would need multiple Nasty Plot boosts to be surmounted, but bear in mind that forgoing Hidden Power Ice for Taunt makes opposing Landorus-T and Tapu Bulu very problematic to deal with.


Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment with Timid nature lets Thundurus take advantage of its excellent Speed tier by outspeeding Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Garchomp. Electrium Z turns Thunderbolt into Gigavolt Havoc,(AC) which OHKOes that features OHKO on Mega Metagross when unboosted and on Porygon2 and Cresselia at +2. Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into All-Out-(RH)Pummeling and lets Thundurus hit Steel-types which that would otherwise need the inaccurate Focus Blast to be defeated and puts a significant dent to in most neutral targets after a Nasty Plot boost.


Usage Tips
========

Thundurus is very frail and therefore should not be switched into any form of an attack. U-turn and Volt Switch from teammates or double switching on when an opponent a foe is sure to switch out is the most ideal time for Thundurus to enter the field. Thundurus can take advantage of its typing to set up Nasty Plot against Steelt Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Scizor or do so while forcing out Water- and Flying-(AH)types. The majority of the time, opponents will send in a Pokemon that can handle both Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, as the those two moves are the most expected attacks from Thundurus. All-Out-(RH)Pummeling must be preserved to KO foes with said traits such as Heatran, Magnezone, and Mamoswine so that Thundurus won't fall short to KO them or have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to dispose of them. Against offensive teams, Thundurus generally lacks an opportunity to set up and therefore can be used as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker. If Thundurus opted to run Taunt, it can be used to anti-lead against passive walls like Hippowdon and Skarmory.



Team Options
========

Thundurus, especially if it carries Z-crystal, desires an opportunity to set up Nasty Plot to dish out as much damage as possible to foes. (this would go in usage tips, but it was already talked about there, so I'm deleting it) Dedicated leads like (not all dedicated leads use Yawn) Hippowdon can provide a Stealth Rock support and put a foe to sleep with Yawn to let Thundurus set up safely. In return,(AC) Thundurus in return takes on Tapu Fini and Celesteela,(AC) which would prove to be annoyances for Hippowdon to deal with due to the former usually carrying Taunt and the latter's Leech Seed. Setup sweepers like Mimikyu, Blaziken, and Mega Gyarados can fit alongside Thundurus because it benefits they benefit (subject-verb agreement here) from Thundurus' its ability to put a dent on bulky foes or and potentially creating create a setup opportunity for Mimikyu by shutting down passive foes with Taunt. When using Thundurus, it is important to ensure the team is prepared against for Mega Charizard X and Volcarona,(AC) since the former can set up on Thundurus lacking All-Out-(RH)Pummeling and the latter can do the same against unboosted Thundurus without much fear. Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Choice Scarf Garchomp can handle one or both of them.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

Taunt is an option in on the SubToxic set to prevent recovery from walls, but forgoing Thunderbolt leaves Thundurus completely helpless against Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Mega Gengar, or and essentially any Pokemon immune to Toxic. Life Orb trades Thundurus's longevity in exchange of for its the ability to achieve OHKO's OHKOs on Mega Gyarados, Mega Chaizard Charizard Y, and Primarina and improve its unboosted attacks. Sludge Wave allows Thundurus to OHKO Tapu Koko on the switch and dispose of Assault Vest Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rock or with a Life Orb boost, but this forces Thundurus to forgo Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice and either hinder its ability to break through defensive walls or significantly worsen its matchup against Ground-types. Grass Knot nails Hippowdon and Mamoswine, but the former is easily dealt by simply using Taunt,(AC) while the latter falls to Focus Blast. Psychic OHKOes Naganadel on the switch and 2HKOes (OHKOs = noun; OHKOes = verb) Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross,(AC) but it is generally an inferior coverage move. Thundurus can use Thunder Wave and this can be used alongside Prankster as a last resort to shut down a setup sweeper with Prankster, but this is difficult to be a successful strategy pull off due to the prevalence of Tapu Lele and the fact that it Thunder Wave is very hard to justify to fit in the moveset.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Attackers**: Due to Thundurus's fraility frailty, faster threats like Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Mega Gengar, and Greninja can easily KO it with their attacks. Although none of them can safely switch into Thundurus, they can KO or force out Thundurus without much trouble. Choice Scarf users with sufficient raw power such as Tapu Lele can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine forces force Thundurus to think twice before using STAB Thunderbolt simply with their presence. Mispredicting against the former two is detrimental due to both of them being common Choice Scarf users, but they are harshly punished if carelessly switched into Hidden Power Ice. Mamoswine(AC), in particular(AC), (these commas are fine but unnecessary, so up to you DMDW) doesn't mind about any attack from Thundurus barring Focus Blast and the rare Grass Knot. In return, Mamoswine easily punishes SubToxic sets with Icicle Spear,(RC) while at worst putting a dent on Nasty Plot variants using Ice Shard, putting Thundurus in a KO range of priority moves.

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest, although it despises getting stalled by Toxic. Ferrothorn and Venusaur doesn't don't even mind about Toxic and easily takes take Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out-(RH)Pummeling.

**Chansey**: Due to its ridiculous special bulk, Chansey barely takes any damage from unboosted attacks and can only be only taken down with +4 All-Out-Pummeling. Chansey also doesn't mind Toxic due to Nature Cure removing status conditions upon switching out. However, Chansey will have a harder time against Thundurus with Nasty Plot and Taunt.

DawnManeDuskWings I have combined the changes as if they were one check below. You would have an easier time implementing this one:
[OVERVIEW]

Unlike its Therian forme Thundurus-T, Thundurus can situationally utilize Prankster to anti-lead against Whimsicott and stall out defensive foes with a combination of Substitute, Toxic, and Protect. Thundurus bolsters a base 111 Speed stat that outspeeds allows it to outspeed (Thundurus outspeeds them, not the Speed stat) Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana, meaning it is not obligated to use Agility to outspeed said threats,(AC) unlike like Thundurus-T would be. However, Thundurus still suffers from its fraility frailty and easily folds to weak supereffective super effective attacks or and even strong neutral attacks. In addition, its Special Attack stat, while it is good and can able to be boosted further with Nasty Plot, falls short to OHKO of OHKOing the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Primarina without relying on prior damage or setup. If outspeeding Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana is not particularly a concern, Thundurus-T is a better alternative as an attacker.

[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Thundurus can afford to run a Toxic stall set thanks to Prankster letting it put even faster foes on a timer and set Substitute with priority. Substitute not only protects Thundurus from an attack at a cost of the a quarter of its health but it also and (not a fan of "not only this but that" sentences in analyses) blocks harmful status moves. Toxic puts passive foes like Porygon2 and Cresselia into on a timer, punishing them as they switch in predicting offensive sets. Protect allows Thundurus to evade an attack for a turn and gain an extra turn of recovery from Leftovers while its foe takes another turn of damage from Toxic poison. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Celesteela and Tapu Fini that do not mind about Toxic and prevents Thundurus from being completely passive.


Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Bold nature allows Thundurus to always avoid the OHKO from +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence all the time ("always all the time" is redundant) and Ice Punch from Mega Metagross with considerable chance after Stealth Rock damage, survive +1 Ice Fang from Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower from Mega Charizard Y at full health, and make a Substitute that blocks Celesteela's Heavy Slam once. 124 Speed lets EVs let Thundurus outspeed unboosted Gyarados, preventing Dragon Dance variants from outspeeding and 2HKOing it. 132 EVs can be invested into Special Defense to prevent Celesteela's Flamethrower from breaking Substitute and lower the chance to get of getting 3HKOed by defensive Tapu Fini. Leftovers provide passive recovery and allows Thundurus to stall out its foe as long as possible. Prankster allows Thundurus to execute its status moves with +1 priority.


Usage Tips
========

It is a promising idea to send Thundurus into Pokemon it naturally threatens with Thunderbolt, such as Celesteela and Toxapex. Use Toxic on a switch-in that can take on Thundurus with ease and wear down the likes of Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, and Cresselia. Thundurus can also be used against offensive threats such as Mega Salamence that it can survive a hit from. Thundurus also excels at Toxic stalling against these threats as well thanks to Prankster allowing it to set Substitute almost always before it is attacked. Repeat using Substitute and Protect to wear down foes with Toxic, or use Thunderbolt for extra damage,(RC) if the foe is too passive to break Substitute or threaten Thundurus in a significant way.


Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can take advantage of Thundurus. Tyranitar causes the problems in the same vein due to its immunity to Prankster moves and its massive special bulk in Sandstorm sand, and it can even Pursuit trap Thundurus in addition ("and it can even" kinda implies this tone that "in addition" gives). Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls,(AC) and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini,(AC) (combine these into a parallel list) and brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn,(AC) while providing provides Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn,(AC) (remember the "while" rule I told you about in Zyg-C) while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.


[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
item: Electrium Z / Fightinium Z
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Thundurus's Special Attack by two stages and allows it to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire metagame. STAB Thunderbolt is a STAB move that hits Water-types and Flying-types supereffectively super effectively while dishing out good damage against neutral targets. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone, Rotom-H, and Hippowdon,(AC) which that are not too bothered by Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice. With Fightinium Z and after a Nasty Plot, all of the aforementioned foes are either OHKOed or are significantly weakened with All-Out Pummeling. Said Z-Move also puts a heavy dent on Mega Charizard X. Hidden Power Ice rounds up Thundurus' coverage by hitting hits threats like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Taunt improves Thundurus's matchup against foes that would need multiple Nasty Plot boosts to be surmounted, but bear in mind that forgoing Hidden Power Ice for Taunt makes opposing Landorus-T and Tapu Bulu very problematic to deal with.


Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment with Timid nature lets Thundurus take advantage of its excellent Speed tier by outspeeding Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Garchomp. Electrium Z turns Thunderbolt into Gigavolt Havoc,(AC) which OHKOes that features OHKO on Mega Metagross when unboosted and on Porygon2 and Cresselia at +2. Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into All-Out-(RH)Pummeling and lets Thundurus hit Steel-types which that would otherwise need the inaccurate Focus Blast to be defeated and puts a significant dent to in most neutral targets after a Nasty Plot boost.


Usage Tips
========

Thundurus is very frail and therefore should not be switched into any form of an attack. U-turn and Volt Switch from teammates or double switching on when an opponent a foe is sure to switch out is the most ideal time for Thundurus to enter the field. Thundurus can take advantage of its typing to set up Nasty Plot against Steelt Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Scizor or do so while forcing out Water- and Flying-(AH)types. The majority of the time, opponents will send in a Pokemon that can handle both Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, as the those two moves are the most expected attacks from Thundurus. All-Out-(RH)Pummeling must be preserved to KO foes with said traits such as Heatran, Magnezone, and Mamoswine so that Thundurus won't fall short to KO them or have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to dispose of them. Against offensive teams, Thundurus generally lacks an opportunity to set up and therefore can be used as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker. If Thundurus opted to run Taunt, it can be used to anti-lead against passive walls like Hippowdon and Skarmory.



Team Options
========

Thundurus, especially if it carries Z-crystal, desires an opportunity to set up Nasty Plot to dish out as much damage as possible to foes. (this would go in usage tips, but it was already talked about there, so I'm deleting it) Dedicated leads like (not all dedicated leads use Yawn) Hippowdon can provide a Stealth Rock support and put a foe to sleep with Yawn to let Thundurus set up safely. In return,(AC) Thundurus in return takes on Tapu Fini and Celesteela,(AC) which would prove to be annoyances for Hippowdon to deal with due to the former usually carrying Taunt and the latter's Leech Seed. Setup sweepers like Mimikyu, Blaziken, and Mega Gyarados can fit alongside Thundurus because it benefits they benefit (subject-verb agreement here) from Thundurus' its ability to put a dent on bulky foes or and potentially creating create a setup opportunity for Mimikyu by shutting down passive foes with Taunt. When using Thundurus, it is important to ensure the team is prepared against for Mega Charizard X and Volcarona,(AC) since the former can set up on Thundurus lacking All-Out-(RH)Pummeling and the latter can do the same against unboosted Thundurus without much fear. Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Choice Scarf Garchomp can handle one or both of them.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============

Taunt is an option in on the SubToxic set to prevent recovery from walls, but forgoing Thunderbolt leaves Thundurus completely helpless against Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Mega Gengar, or and essentially any Pokemon immune to Toxic. Life Orb trades Thundurus's longevity in exchange of its for the ability to achieve OHKO's OHKOs on Mega Gyarados, Mega Chaizard Charizard Y, and Primarina and improve its unboosted attacks. Sludge Wave allows Thundurus to OHKO Tapu Koko on the switch and dispose of Assault Vest Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rock or with a Life Orb boost, but this forces Thundurus to forgo Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice and either hinder its ability to break through defensive walls or significantly worsen its matchup against Ground-types. Grass Knot nails Hippowdon and Mamoswine, but the former is easily dealt by simply using Taunt,(AC) while the latter falls to Focus Blast. Psychic OHKOes Naganadel on the switch and 2HKOes (OHKOs = noun; OHKOes = verb) Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross,(AC) but it is generally an inferior coverage move. Thundurus can use Thunder Wave and this can be used alongside Prankster as a last resort to shut down a setup sweeper with Prankster, but this is difficult to be a successful strategy pull off due to the prevalence of Tapu Lele and the fact that it Thunder Wave is very hard to justify to fit in the moveset.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Attackers**: Due to Thundurus's frailty fraility, faster threats like Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Mega Gengar, and Greninja can easily KO it with their attacks. Although none of them can safely switch into Thundurus, they can KO or force out Thundurus without much trouble. Choice Scarf users with sufficient raw power such as Tapu Lele can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine forces force Thundurus to think twice before using STAB Thunderbolt simply with their presence. Mispredicting against the former two is detrimental due to both of them being common Choice Scarf users, but they are harshly punished if carelessly switched into Hidden Power Ice. Mamoswine,(AC) in particular,(AC) (these commas from amcheck are fine but unnecessary, so up to you DMDW) doesn't mind about any attack from Thundurus barring Focus Blast and the rare Grass Knot. In return, Mamoswine easily punishes SubToxic sets with Icicle Spear,(RC) while at worst putting a dent on Nasty Plot variants using Ice Shard, putting Thundurus in a KO range of priority moves.

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest, although it despises getting stalled by Toxic. Ferrothorn and Venusaur doesn't don't even mind about Toxic and easily takes take Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out-(RH)Pummeling.

**Chansey**: Due to its ridiculous special bulk, Chansey barely takes any damage from unboosted attacks and can only be only taken down with +4 All-Out-Pummeling. Chansey also doesn't mind Toxic due to Nature Cure removing status conditions upon switching out. However, Chansey will have a harder time against Thundurus with Nasty Plot and Taunt.
GP 1/2
 
I really need to work on fixing tautology.

Thanks for the time as always. Implemented and this is ready for second one.
 

Lumari

thinking of a place
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnus
TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 2/2
[OVERVIEW]

Unlike Thundurus-T, Thundurus can situationally utilize Prankster to anti-lead against Whimsicott and stall out defensive foes with a combination of Substitute, Toxic, and Protect. Furthermore, Thundurus bolsters boasts a base 111 Speed stat that allows it to(space)outspeed Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana, meaning it is not obligated to use Agility to outspeed said threats, unike unlike Thundurus-T. However, Thundurus still suffers from its frailty and easily folds to weak super effective attacks and even strong neutral attacks. In addition, its Special Attack stat, while good and able to be boosted further with Nasty Plot, falls short of OHKOing the likes of Mega Charizard Y and Primarina without relying on prior damage or setup. If outspeeding Mega Metagross, Garchomp, and Kartana is not particularly a concern, Thundurus-T is a better alternative as an attacker.

[SET]
name: SubToxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
ability: Prankster
nature: Bold
evs: 244 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 36 SpD / 124 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Thundurus can afford to run Toxic stall set thanks to Prankster letting it put even faster foes on timer and set Substitute with priority. Substitute protects Thundurus from an attack at a cost of a quarter of its health but it and also blocks harmful status moves. Toxic puts passive foes like Porygon2 and Cresselia on a timer, punishing them as they switch in predicting offensive sets. Protect allows Thundurus to evade an attack for a turn and gain an extra turn of recovery from Leftovers while its foe takes another turn of damage from Toxic poison. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Celesteela and Tapu Fini that do not mind Toxic and prevents Thundurus from being completely passive.

Set Details
========

The given EV spread with a Bold nature allows Thundurus to avoid the OHKO from +1 Double-Edge from Mega Salamence all the time and Ice Punch from Mega Metagross with considerable chance after Stealth Rock damage, survive +1 Ice Fang from Mega Gyarados and Flamethrower from Mega Charizard Y at full health, and make a Substitute that blocks Celesteela's Heavy Slam once. 124 Speed EVs let Thundurus outspeed unboosted Gyarados, preventing Dragon Dance variants from outspeeding and 2HKOing it. 132 EVs can be invested into Special Defense to prevent Celesteela's Flamethrower from breaking Substitute and lower the chance of getting 3HKOed by defensive Tapu Fini. Leftovers provide passive recovery and allows Thundurus to stall out its foe as long as possible. Prankster allows Thundurus to execute its status moves with +1 priority.

Usage Tips
========

It is a promising idea to send Thundurus into Pokemon it naturally threatens with Thunderbolt, such as Celesteela and Toxapex. Use Toxic on a switch-in that can take on Thundurus with ease and wear down the likes of Tapu Bulu, Landorus-T, and Cresselia. Thundurus can also be used against offensive threats such as Mega Salamence that it can survive a hit from; (SC) Thundurus also it excels at Toxic stalling against these threats as thanks to Prankster allowing it to set Substitute almost always before it is attacked. Repeat using Repeatedly use Substitute and Protect to wear down foes with Toxic, or use Thunderbolt for extra damage if the foe is too passive to break Substitute or threaten Thundurus in a significant way.

Team Options
========

Note that the likes of Heatran and Ferrothorn will be very problematic to deal with, as they are immune to Toxic, resilient to Thunderbolt, and can able to take advantage of Thundurus. Tyranitar causes problems in the same vein due to its immunity to Prankster moves and massive special bulk in sand, and it can even Pursuit trap Thundurus. Fighting-types like Blaziken can muscle through these walls, and Thundurus can lure and cripple Blaziken's checks with Toxic and handle Mega Salamence. In general, wallbreakers appreciate Thundurus crippling various walls like Porygon2, defensive Landorus-T, and Cresselia with Toxic and having a backup plan for Mega Salamence and Mega Gyarados, as most of them are vulnerable to said threats. Landorus-T draws in Celesteela and Tapu Fini, brings in Thundurus safely with U-turn, and provides Stealth Rock support, and pressures Heatran and Excadrill. Mega Scizor is another pivot that can let Thundurus switch in safely. Mega Scizor also switches into Ice-type attacks, is a good check to most Rock-types, and takes advantage of Ferrothorn, while Thundurus can weaken various physical walls and Water-types by Toxic stalling or using Thunderbolt.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
item: Electrium Z / Fightinium Z
ability: Prankster
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Nasty Plot boosts Thundurus' Thundurus's Special Attack by two stages and allows it to OHKO or 2HKO almost the entire metagame. STAB Thunderbolt STAB hits Water-types and Flying-types super effectively while dishing out good damage against neutral targets. Focus Blast hits Heatran, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Magnezone, Rotom-H, and Hippowdon, which are not too bothered by Thundurus's Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice. With Fightinium Z and after a Nasty Plot, all of the aforementioned foes are either OHKOed or significantly weakened. Said Z-Move also puts a heavy dent on in Mega Charizard X. Hidden Power Ice hits threats like Landorus-T and Garchomp. Taunt improves Thundurus' Thundurus's matchup against foes that would need multiple Nasty Plot boosts to be surmounted, but bear in mind that forgoing Hidden Power Ice for Taunt makes opposing Landorus-T and Tapu Bulu very problematic to deal with.

Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment with a Timid nature lets Thundurus take advantage of its excellent Speed tier by outspeeding Mega Metagross, Kartana, and Garchomp. Electrium Z turns Thunderbolt into Gigavolt Havoc, which OHKOes Mega Metagross when unboosted and Porygon2 and Cresselia at +2. Alternatively, Fightinium Z turns Focus Blast into All-Out Pummeling, (AC) and lets letting Thundurus hit Steel-types that would otherwise need the inaccurate Focus Blast to be defeated and puts putting a significant dent in most neutral targets after a Nasty Plot boost.

Usage Tips
========

Thundurus is very frail and therefore should not be switched into any attack. U-turn and Volt Switch from teammates or double switching when a foe is sure to switch out is the most ideal time for Thundurus to enter the field. Thundurus can take advantage of its typing to set up Nasty Plot against Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Scizor or while forcing out Water- and Flying-types. The majority of the time, opponents will send in a Pokemon such as Heatran, Magnezone, or Mamoswine that can handle both Thunderbolt and Hidden Power Ice, as thos those two moves are the most expected attacks from Thundurus. All-Out Pummeling must be preserved to KO such foes with said traits such as Heatran, Magnezone, and Mamoswine so Thundurus won't fall short to KO them or have to rely on the inaccurate Focus Blast to dispose of them. Against offensive teams, Thundurus generally lacks an opportunity to set up and therefore can be used as an early- or mid-game wallbreaker. If Thundurus opted opts to run Taunt, it can be used to anti-lead against passive walls like Hippowdon and Skarmory.

Team Options
========

Hippowdon can provide Stealth Rock support and put a foe to sleep with Yawn to let Thundurus set up safely. In return, Thundurus takes on Tapu Fini and Celesteela, which prove to be annoyances for Hippowdon to deal with due to the former usually carrying Taunt and the latter's running Leech Seed. Setup sweepers like Mimikyu, Blaziken, and Mega Gyarados can fit alongside Thundurus because they benefit from its ability to put a dent on bulky foes and potentially create a setup opportunity by shutting down passive foes with Taunt. When using Thundurus, it is important to ensure the team is prepared for Mega Charizard X and Volcarona, since the former can set up on Thundurus lacking All-Out Pummeling and the latter can do the same against unboosted Thundurus without much fear. Landorus-T, Tapu Fini, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Choice Scarf Garchomp can handle one or both of them.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Taunt is an option on the SubToxic set to prevent recovery from walls, but forgoing Thunderbolt leaves Thundurus completely helpless against Celesteela, Tapu Fini, Mega Gengar, and essentially any Pokemon immune to Toxic. Life Orb trades Thundurus's longevity in exchange for the ability to achieve OHKOs on Mega Gyarados, Mega Charizard Y, and Primarina and improve its unboosted attacks. Sludge Wave allows Thundurus to OHKO Tapu Koko on the switch and dispose of Assault Vest Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rock or with a Life Orb boost, but this forces Thundurus to forgo Nasty Plot or Hidden Power Ice and either hinder its ability to break through defensive walls or significantly worsen its matchup against Ground-types. Grass Knot nails Hippowdon and Mamoswine, but the former is easily dealt by simply using Taunt, while the latter falls to Focus Blast. Psychic OHKOes Naganadel on the switch and 2HKOes Mega Venusaur and Mega Heracross, but it is generally an inferior coverage move. Thundurus can use Thunder Wave alongside Prankster as a last resort to shut down a setup sweeper, but this is difficult to pull off due to the prevalence of Tapu Lele and the fact that Thunder Wave is very hard to fit in the moveset.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Faster Attackers**: Due to Thundurus's frailty, faster threats like Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Mega Gengar, and Greninja can easily KO it with their attacks. Although none of them can safely switch into Thundurus, they can KO or force it out Thundurus without much trouble. Choice Scarf users with sufficient raw power such as Tapu Lele can outspeed and OHKO Thundurus.

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Mamoswine force Thundurus to think twice before using STAB Thunderbolt simply with their presence. Mispredicting against the former two is detrimental due to both of them being common Choice Scarf users, but they are harshly punished if carelessly switched into Hidden Power Ice. Mamoswine, in particular, doesn't mind any attack from Thundurus barring Focus Blast and the rare Grass Knot. In return, Mamoswine easily punishes SubToxic sets with Icicle Spear while at worst putting a dent on Nasty Plot variants using Ice Shard, putting Thundurus in KO range of priority moves.

**Grass-types**: Tapu Bulu hopelessly shuts down any Thundurus lacking Sludge Wave and easily takes even boosted Hidden Power Ice if it is equipped with Assault Vest, although it despises getting stalled by Toxic. Ferrothorn and Venusaur don't even mind Toxic and easily take Hidden Power Ice thanks to the former's typing and the latter's ability. However, Ferrothorn is taken out by +2 Focus Blast or unboosted All-Out Pummeling.

**Chansey**: Due to its ridiculous special bulk, Chansey barely takes any damage from unboosted attacks, (AC) and can only be taken down with only falling to +4 All-Out Pummeling. (remove second hyphen)Chansey also doesn't mind Toxic due to Nature Cure removing status conditions upon switching out. However, Chansey will have a harder time against Thundurus with Nasty Plot and Taunt.
 
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