Togekiss [QC 2/2, UQC 1/1, GP 0/1]

Status
Not open for further replies.

berry

what kind
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
[SET]
name: Triage
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Draining Kiss
move 3: Flamethrower / Roost
move 4: Psyshock / Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Triage
nature: Modest
evs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Paragraph 1:
Togekiss' main niche in AAA is a late-game sweeper that is able to outspeed everything except for other triage users with its superior +3 priority boosted recovery moves. Draining Kiss acts as Togekiss' main STAB, and despite its low base power, its damage output can be increased greatly by boosting Special Attack with Nasty Plot or equipping a Life Orb for a universal 1.3x damage boost. Because of its artificially high speed tier, Togekiss is able to effectively outspeed the entire metagame, meaning mons that can effectively revenge it are few and far between, those being limited to fairy-type resists and Dazzling or Psychic Surge mons. This gives Togekiss a uniquely good matchup versus pivot-heavy Bulky Offense teams that do not carry an offensive Fire or Steel type. +3 Draining Kiss is able to threaten common +1 priority users such as Ice Shard Weavile and Aqua Jet Barraskewda, as well as +2 priority Extreme Speed users such as Refrigerate Regieleki. Togekiss is also able to set up on and brute force its way through switchins that are passive in nature such as Corviknight and Toxic-less Blissey. If these switchins lack strong attacking moves or status moves such as Toxic, Togekiss is able to boost its Special Attack freely and outdamage their own healing, winning out in the long run. In the late game, Togekiss especially shines as a setup sweeper and win condition when the opponent's team is absent of Fairy resists. Beacause Roost is also a healing move, it gains +3 priority as well, allowing Togekiss to sponge some attacks with its above-average bulk. Due to Togekiss' narrow niche and need for heavy chip on resists to execute a successful sweep, it should be considered as a specialist, only being brought in when a kill can be guaranteed, or to pressure exceptionally weak opponents out. For coverage moves, Togekiss mainly chooses between Flamethrower and / or Psyshock. Flamethrower allows this mon to overcome its glaring steel type weakness, threatening out common non-Flash Fire steel types like Doublade and Corviknight. Psyshock allows Togekiss to put a dent into special walls like Blissey or poison types like Toxapex or Nihilego. A Modest nature with 252 Special Attack EVs aims to maximize Togekiss' damage output, while 48 Speed EVs allow Togekiss to outspeed minimum speed Tapu Fini. The rest of the 208 EVs are placed in HP to maximize bulk and minimize Stealth Rock damage.

Paragraph 2:
Because of its fast Fairy-type attacks, Togekiss acts as an excellent teammate to those who struggle to outpace Dragon, Fighting, and Dark-Types like Garchomp, Zapdos-Galar, and Weavile. Bulky pivots like Regenerator Swampert or Magic Bounce Blissey are both able to weaken these fast threats, while pivoting out to let Togekiss clean up with Draining Kiss. Togekiss also pairs nicely with offensive powerhouses like Psychic Surge Alakazam, Tinted Lens Latios, and Magic Guard Blacephalon, which can put easily-exploitable dents into an opponent's team composition, giving this mon a greater opportunity to overwhelm the opponent in the endgame. Because Fire-types are going to be some of Togekiss' first switch-ins, Fire resists to tank attacks from mons like Volcarona and Heatran are essential teammates. Regenerator Garchomp, Swampert, and Nihilego are able to switch in and heal off damage from their attacks, while punishing and setting up Stealth rocks to allow for further chip. On a similar note, setup sweepers that share the same offensive checks also make great teammates for Togekiss. Sheer Force Genesect and Triage Tapu Bulu can help clear the way for Togekiss by threatening to sweep unless a Fire type is brought in to revenge them, in which case they can chip it low enough that Togekiss can clean up in the lategame (or vice versa). Mons that are able to set up hazards and pivot out slowly are also essential teammates for Togekiss, weakening Togekiss' offensive switch-ins and allowing for more wiggle room to set up Nasty Plots and execute a sweep. Finally, physically offensive Ground types like Landorus-Therian, Excadrill, and Mamoswine are able to threaten Togekiss' common steel-type counters such as Assault Vest Jirachi, as well as harming Specially-defensive walls like Blissey and Snorlax, enabling Togekiss' late-game cleanup.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Aura Sphere can replace Psyshock or Flamethrower to have more effective counterplay towards Heatran and Flash Fire steel types like Ferrothorn.

3-Attacks Togekiss can drop the Roost slot and defensive utility to run both Psyshock and Flamethrower, allowing for a sweep versus a wider variety of teams in the late game. Because it needs to rely on Draining Kiss for recovery instead of roost, this set doesn't have as much longevity as the standard 2-attacks set.

Heavy Duty Boots can be run on Togekiss if it's put on a team without adequate hazard control, which helps keep it topped off throughout the game, at the cost of significantly lower damage output.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive Fairy resists** : Fire or Steel type Pokemon like Volcarona, Blacephalon, Heatran or Genesect are able to resist all of Togekiss' main attacking option - Draining Kiss, while outspeeding it and threatening a KO.

**Anti-setup mons**: Walls such as prankster Toxapex and Unaware Chansey (or Blissey) act as full stops to the standard Togekiss sets.

**Specially defensive pivots**: Regenerator pivots such as Assault Vest Swampert can switch into Togekiss and pivot into adequate revenge killers. Bulky Rock-types like Nihilego (for non Psyshock sets) and Rhydon can threaten to beat Togekiss 1v1 and force it out, while using the opportunity to set hazards.

**Anti-priority mons**: Fast Pokemon with Dazzling or Queenly Majesty such as Terrakion, Hydreigon or Weavile are immune to Togekiss' Triage boosted Draining Kiss and can thus KO it with SE Rock, Steel or Ice type moves. Psychic Surge mons like Alakazam are also immune to Draining Kiss and threaten a KO with terrain boosted Expanding Force.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[berry, 226455]]
- Quality checked by: [[The Number Man, 475804], [Thinkerino, 375662/]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
 
Last edited:
add remove comments
[SET]
name: Triage
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Draining Kiss
move 3: Fire Blast Flamethrower/Roost
move 4: Psyshock/Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Triage
nature: Modest
evs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe

Personally, I think Flamethrower is preferred in 99% of cases as Fire Blast doesn't meaningfully change any rolls from what I remember. While Blast does have a chance to OHKO SpD corviknight, it's not guaranteed and Corviknight without FF loses to +2 Kiss regardless, so I don't think the extra power is needed. Most other steels face the same fate. Additionally, I think Roost sets still opt for Flamethrower over Psyshock more often in general - mainly because the common Blissey sets that people run (Bounce and Regen) don't actually beat Togekiss 1v1 unless they run Toxic, which is something that you scout for and bruteforce through once you know it isn't Toxic).

[SET COMMENTS]
Paragraph 1:
Togekiss' main niche in AAA is a late-game sweeper that is able to outspeed everything except for other triage users with its superior +3 priority boosted recovery moves. Draining Kiss acts as Togekiss' main STAB, and despite its low base power, its damage output can be increased greatly by boosting Special Attack with Nasty Plot or equipping a Life Orb for a universal 1.3x damage boost. Because of its artificially high speed tier, Togekiss is able to effectively outspeed the entire metagame, as well as threaten common +1 priority users such as Ice Shard Weavile and Aqua Jet Barraskewda, as well as +2 priority Extreme Speed users such as Refrigerate Regieleki. It mainly shines in the late game, acting as a setup sweeper and win condition when the opponent's team is absent of Fairy resists. Finally, because Roost is also a healing move, it gains +3 priority as well, allowing Togekiss to sponge some attacks with its above-average bulk. Due to Togekiss' narrow niche and need for heavy chip on resists to execute a successful sweep, it should be considered as a specialist, only being brought in when a kill can be guaranteed, or to pressure exceptionally weak opponents out. For coverage moves, Togekiss mainly chooses between Fire Blast Flamethrower and/or Psyshock. Fire Blast Flamethrower allows this mon to overcome its glaring steel type weakness, threatening out common non-Flash Fire steel types like Doublade and Corviknight. Psyshock allows Togekiss to put a dent into special walls like Blissey or poison types like Toxapex or Nihilego. A Modest nature with 252 Special Attack EVs aims to maximize Togekiss' damage output, while 48 Speed EVs allow Togekiss to outspeed minimum speed Tapu Fini. The rest of the 208 EVs are placed in HP to maximize bulk and minimize Stealth Rock damage.

I'm not yet sure where exactly to put this, but 2 things should also be emphasized about Togekiss:
1) The ability to bruteforce through would-be checks that can't meaningfully damage it (usually mons that are passive in nature and lack Toxic or another way to put it on a timer) with its excellent bulk and ability to Roost off damage while boosting to high enough SPA to outdamage their healing. Examples being Corviknight, Toxic-less Blissey, Defensive Heatran without Toxic/Steel Coverage.
2) This is more a Triage thing than a Togekiss specific thing, but it should be mentioned that Triage lets Togekiss bypass the most common method of AAA counterplay which is switching into something to soak up the initial hit and then using that mon to slow-pivot out into a faster revenge killer. In the case of Triage mons, this only works if the revenge killer has Psysurge, Dazzling or is healthy and resists the Triage boosted move. This makes Kiss especially deadly to pivot based bulky offenses that forget to pack an offensive Fire or Steel type.


Paragraph 2:
Because of its fast Fairy-type attacks, Togekiss acts as an excellent teammate to those who struggle to outpace fast Dragon, Fighting, and Dark-Types like Noivern, Zapdos-Galar, and Weavile. Bulky pivots like Regenerator Swampert or Magic Bounce Blissey are both able to weaken these fast threats, while pivoting out to let Togekiss clean up with Draining Kiss. Togekiss also pairs nicely with offensive powerhouses like Psychic Surge Alakazam, Tinted Lens Victini, and Magic Guard Blacephalon, which can put easily-exploitable dents into an opponent's team composition, giving this mon a greater opportunity to overwhelm the opponent in the endgame. Because Fire-types are going to be some of Togekiss' first switch-ins, Fire resists to tank attacks from mons like Victini and Heatran are essential teammates. Poison Heal Garchomp and Regenerator Swampert are able to switch in and heal off damage from their attacks, while punishing and setting up Stealth rocks to allow for further chip. On a similar note, setup sweepers that share the same offensive checks also make great teammates for Togekiss. Sheer Force Genesect and Triage Tapu Bulu can help clear the way for Togekiss by threatening to sweep unless a Fire type is brought in to revenge them, in which case they can chip it low enough that Togekiss can clean up in the lategame (or vice versa). Mons that are able to set up hazards and pivot out slowly are also essential teammates for Togekiss, weakening Togekiss' offensive switch-ins and allowing for more wiggle room to set up Nasty Plots and execute a sweep. Finally, physically offensive Ground types like Landorus-Therian, Excadrill, and Mamoswine are able to threaten Togekiss' common steel-type counters such as Assault Vest Jirachi, as well as harming Specially-defensive walls like Blissey and Snorlax, enabling Togekiss' late-game cleanup.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Aura Sphere can replace Psyshock or Fire Blast Flamethrower to have more effective counterplay towards Heatran and Flash Fire steel types like Ferrothorn.

3-Attacks Togekiss can drop the Roost slot and defensive utility to run both Psyshock and Fire Blast, allowing for a sweep versus a wider variety of teams in the late game.

Flamethrower or Mystical Fire can be used as a more consistent and accurate fire type move, but they loses out on much of the power that Fire Blast offers, as well as potentially missing out on a one-hit KO on Eviolite Doublade.

Heavy Duty Boots can be run on Togekiss if it's put on a team without adequate hazard control, which helps keep it topped off throughout the game, at the cost of significantly lower damage output.


Checks and Counters - This section should be expanded to better reflect the different types of Togekiss counterplay that are available to AAA players.
===================

**Fire Types**: Fire type Pokemon like Victini or Heatran are able to resist all of Togekiss' standard attacking types, letting the opponent reliably set up hazards or hit Togekiss back harder.

**Special Walls**: Special Walls such as Blissey, Heatran, and Snorlax stand completely in Togekiss' way throughout the early game, almost completely restricting this Pokemon to being a late game sweeper.


**Offensive Fairy resists** : Fire or Steel type Pokemon like Victini, Blacephalon, Heatran or Genesect are able to resist all of Togekiss' main attacking option - Draining Kiss, while outspeeding it and threatening a KO.

**Anti-setup mons**: Walls such as prankster Toxapex and Unaware Chansey (or Blissey) and Poison Heal Snorlax act as full stops to the standard Togekiss sets.

**Specially defensive pivots**: Regenerator pivots such as Assault Vest Swampert and Assault Vest Silvally Electric can switch into Togekiss and pivot into adequate revenge killers. Silvally Electric can also attempt to 1v1 with the use of Poison Fang which puts Togekiss on a timer. Bulky Rock-types like Nihilego (for non Psyshock versions) and Rhydon can threaten to beat Togekiss 1v1 and force it out, while using the opportunity to set hazards.


**Anti-priority mons**: Fast Pokemon with Dazzling or Queenly Majesty such as Terrakion, Hydreigon or Weavile are immune to Togekiss' Triage boosted Draining Kiss and can thus KO it with SE Rock, Steel or Ice type moves. Psychic Surge mons like Alakazam are also immune to Draining Kiss and threaten a KO with terrain boosted Expanding Force.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[berry, 226455]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
The overall analysis is very good, but I do think some things need to be fixed/mentioned before it's approved.
1) The moves
2) The way the combination of Triage + recovery actually impacts Togekiss counterplay while in-game
3) The checks and counters section should be expanded to note the three types of counterplay: offensive checks, full stop counters and mons that check it by pivoting into an offensive check

I added suggestions on how to fix these things, but if you have any questions feel free to DM me. QC 1/2 Reject for now, but approved once it's implemented.
 
Last edited:

berry

what kind
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
add remove comments


The overall analysis is very good, but I do think some things need to be fixed/mentioned before it's approved.
1) The moves
2) The way the combination of Triage + recovery actually impacts Togekiss counterplay while in-game
3) The checks and counters section should be expanded to note the three types of counterplay: offensive checks, full stop counters and mons that check it by pivoting into an offensive check

I added suggestions on how to fix these things, but if you have any questions feel free to DM me. QC 1/2 Reject for now, but approved once it's implemented.
Implemented the changes in green, I added in a couple of sentences about triage / pivot interactions and forcing through passive switchins in the first paragraph, but let me know if they seem a bit too awkward.

Because of its artificially high speed tier, Togekiss is able to effectively outspeed the entire metagame, meaning mons that can effectively revenge it are few and far between, including only fairy-type resists and Dazzling or Psychic Surge mons. This gives Togekiss a uniquely good matchup versus pivot-heavy Bulky Offense teams that do not carry an offensive Fire or Steel type.
Togekiss is also able to set up on and brute force its way through switchins that are passive in nature such as Corviknight and Toxic-less Blissey. If these switchins lack strong attacking moves or status moves such as Toxic, Togekiss is able to boost its Special Attack freely and outdamage their own healing, winning out in the long run.
 

Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
UM/OM Leader
Add, Remove, Conjecture
[SET]
name: Triage
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Draining Kiss
move 3: Flamethrower / Roost
move 4: Psyshock / Roost
item: Life Orb
ability: Triage
nature: Modest
evs: 208 HP / 252 SpA / 48 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Paragraph 1:
Togekiss' main niche in AAA is a late-game sweeper that is able to outspeed everything except for other triage users with its superior +3 priority boosted recovery moves. Draining Kiss acts as Togekiss' main STAB, and despite its low base power, its damage output can be increased greatly by boosting Special Attack with Nasty Plot or equipping a Life Orb for a universal 1.3x damage boost. Because of its artificially high speed tier, Togekiss is able to effectively outspeed the entire metagame, meaning mons that can effectively revenge it are few and far between, those being limited to fairy-type resists and Dazzling or Psychic Surge mons. This gives Togekiss a uniquely good matchup versus pivot-heavy Bulky Offense teams that do not carry an offensive Fire or Steel type. +3 Draining Kiss is able to threaten common +1 priority users such as Ice Shard Weavile and Aqua Jet Barraskewda, as well as +2 priority Extreme Speed users such as Refrigerate Regieleki. Togekiss is also able to set up on and brute force its way through switchins that are passive in nature such as Corviknight and Toxic-less Blissey. If these switchins lack strong attacking moves or status moves such as Toxic, Togekiss is able to boost its Special Attack freely and outdamage their own healing, winning out in the long run. In the late game, Togekiss especially shines as a setup sweeper and win condition when the opponent's team is absent of Fairy resists. Beacause Roost is also a healing move, it gains +3 priority as well, allowing Togekiss to sponge some attacks with its above-average bulk. Due to Togekiss' narrow niche and need for heavy chip on resists to execute a successful sweep, it should be considered as a specialist, only being brought in when a kill can be guaranteed, or to pressure exceptionally weak opponents out. For coverage moves, Togekiss mainly chooses between Flamethrower and / or Psyshock. Flamethrower allows this mon to overcome its glaring steel type weakness, threatening out common non-Flash Fire steel types like Doublade and Corviknight. Psyshock allows Togekiss to put a dent into special walls like Blissey or poison types like Toxapex or Nihilego. A Modest nature with 252 Special Attack EVs aims to maximize Togekiss' damage output, while 48 Speed EVs allow Togekiss to outspeed minimum speed Tapu Fini. The rest of the 208 EVs are placed in HP to maximize bulk and minimize Stealth Rock damage.

Paragraph 2:
Because of its fast Fairy-type attacks, Togekiss acts as an excellent teammate to those who struggle to outpace fast Dragon, Fighting, and Dark-Types like Noivern, Zapdos-Galar, and Weavile. Bulky pivots like Regenerator Swampert or Magic Bounce Blissey are both able to weaken these fast threats, while pivoting out to let Togekiss clean up with Draining Kiss. Togekiss also pairs nicely with offensive powerhouses like Psychic Surge Alakazam, Tinted Lens Victini, and Magic Guard Blacephalon, which can put easily-exploitable dents into an opponent's team composition, giving this mon a greater opportunity to overwhelm the opponent in the endgame. Because Fire-types are going to be some of Togekiss' first switch-ins, Fire resists to tank attacks from mons like Victini and Heatran are essential teammates. Poison Heal Garchomp and Regenerator Swampert are able to switch in and heal off damage from their attacks, while punishing and setting up Stealth rocks to allow for further chip. On a similar note, setup sweepers that share the same offensive checks also make great teammates for Togekiss. Sheer Force Genesect and Triage Tapu Bulu can help clear the way for Togekiss by threatening to sweep unless a Fire type is brought in to revenge them, in which case they can chip it low enough that Togekiss can clean up in the lategame (or vice versa). Mons that are able to set up hazards and pivot out slowly are also essential teammates for Togekiss, weakening Togekiss' offensive switch-ins and allowing for more wiggle room to set up Nasty Plots and execute a sweep. Finally, physically offensive Ground types like Landorus-Therian, Excadrill, and Mamoswine are able to threaten Togekiss' common steel-type counters such as Assault Vest Jirachi, as well as harming Specially-defensive walls like Blissey and Snorlax, enabling Togekiss' late-game cleanup.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Aura Sphere can replace Psyshock or Flamethrower to have more effective counterplay towards Heatran and Flash Fire steel types like Ferrothorn.

3-Attacks Togekiss can drop the Roost slot and defensive utility to run both Psyshock and Flamethrower, allowing for a sweep versus a wider variety of teams in the late game. This could be misinterpreted as saying that 3 attacks is just as reliable as roost. I think it should also be mentioned that 3 attacks relies on Draining Kiss for recovery and thus doesn't have as much longevity

Heavy Duty Boots can be run on Togekiss if it's put on a team without adequate hazard control, which helps keep it topped off throughout the game, at the cost of significantly lower damage output.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Offensive Fairy resists** : Fire or Steel type Pokemon like Victini, Blacephalon, Heatran or Genesect are able to resist all of Togekiss' main attacking option - Draining Kiss, while outspeeding it and threatening a KO.

**Anti-setup mons**: Walls such as prankster Toxapex and Unaware Chansey (or Blissey) and Poison Heal Snorlax act as full stops to the standard Togekiss sets.

**Specially defensive pivots**: Regenerator pivots such as Assault Vest Swampert and Assault Vest Silvally Electric can switch into Togekiss and pivot into adequate revenge killers. Silvally Electric can also attempt to 1v1 with the use of Poison Fang which puts Togekiss on a timer. Bulky Rock-types like Nihilego (for non Psyshock versions) and Rhydon can threaten to beat Togekiss 1v1 and force it out, while using the opportunity to set hazards.

**Anti-priority mons**: Fast Pokemon with Dazzling or Queenly Majesty such as Terrakion, Hydreigon or Weavile are immune to Togekiss' Triage boosted Draining Kiss and can thus KO it with SE Rock, Steel or Ice type moves. Psychic Surge mons like Alakazam are also immune to Draining Kiss and threaten a KO with terrain boosted Expanding Force.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[berry, 226455]]
- Quality checked by: [[The Number Man, 475804], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
Just a little nitpick, otherwise QC 2/2!
 

berry

what kind
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
this is ready for UQC

changed noivern to garchomp when talking about dragon types that toge can beat once set up
removed mentions of poison heal snorlax in checks and counters,
changed pheal garchomp to regen garchomp in teammates
 

Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
UM/OM Leader
This looks good to go! Maybe change Silvally-Electric in checks/counters to Silvally-Rock as elecvally doesn't really see use anymore post Noivern
UQC 1/1

Edit: Honestly, you can just take mention of Silvally out completely and leave it at Swampert. Rockvally isn't that common, either.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top