Project Top 10 Titans of NDOU

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Milo

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What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

really gave water types a run for their money and significantly lessened their ability to be defensive. Kyurem was also known for being a team wrecker, it was extremely easy in the past to spend about 30 mins making a team only for it to be 6-0d by kyurem. The ice/ground coverage coupled with the ice coverages ability to damage water types makes this mons SE reach really strong. IMO Kyurem’s Ice/ground is better than bolt beam as it offers not only ice ground but a super effective reach on water.
In what main roles was Pokemon used?
Wallbreaker. The combination of freeze dry, pressure, and it’s massive HP gives walls a run for their money as things such as pex are easily handled.


What caused it to have a significant impact?
So many things. Ability, typing, stats, and movepool. The stats of this mon are amazing, the movepool of this mon is amazing, the ability of this mon is amazing, and the typing of this mon is great as it’s rare and offers stab to a move that makes a resist of its type weak to it.
How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NDOU?
It’s genuinely difficult to find a solid, one size fits all counter. I like to go ferrothorn but freeze dry is very spammable thus the rate at which it can get frozen is not super low. One can sub on a seismic toss from bliss, freeze dry into ferro, freeze dry again from an iron head and freeze the ferrothorn making it useless. Offensive pressure like that from lele and Mlop are helpful but they both require a sub to be gone. As non AV lele and Mlop take a major hit from freeze dry.
Hate to break it to you lad, but Kyurem has already been done
 


Heatran

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

It gave more of viability too alot if offensive playstyles since it could offer alot of role compression and stallbreaking power and is a big part of the reason why Gliscor is one of the premiere defoggers in the tier. It also forced alot of defensive pokemon too speedcreep it

In what main roles was Pokemon used?

It was used both as a spdef oriented defensive option and an offensive stallbreaker when equipped with a Z-Crystal and the move taunt

What caused it to have a significant impact?

A good offensive and supportive movepool, great typing, good stats and an insane signature move are what make this pokemon as unique and influential as it is

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NDOU?

Shed Shell Toxapex, Gliscor are the best ways of dealing with it altho Fini and Chomp can work as more short term counters as well
same thing as milo said tran's already been submitted
 
:ss/Clefable:

Clefable

What effect did this Pokemon have on the metagame?
Clefable gave good viability to a lot of stall/fat Unaware playstyles and can be used to force the opponent to switch Weavile out, one of the scariest mons in the tier. However it can also be used on balance with Magic Guard. A lot of slow offensive mons like Mega Mawile are forced to speedcreep to be able to deal with it. Also one of the reasons, along with Tapu Fini, why Protgren runs Gunk Shot in the tier to outspeed and easily beat Clefable. On top of that, it is the highest rank fairy type on the VR to show how good it is in the metagame.

In what main roles were this Pokemon used for?
Used as a defensive wall on stall or fat, can also be used offensively with calm mind + life orb to break other walls like Toxapex and Fini (if Thunder) and can also carry Flamethrower for steel type threats like Kartana.

What caused it to have a significant impact?
The fact Clefable has two really good abilities, can be used as a wall, a win condition, has one of the best types in the game being Fairy, decent stats and a good offensive movepool like Flamethrower and Thunder and supportive movepool including Wish, Aromatherapy, Knock off, Thunder Wave and can also carry Stealth Rocks. Another thing that is good for Clefable is the ban of Mega Metagross, which is an obvious threat, but Clefable is fine since it got banned.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NDOU?
Steels in particular are one of the best ways to deal with most Clefable sets. Pokemon like Mega Scizor can force switch Clefable out because of its priority Bullet Punch. This can be used to deal with all Clefable sets, both Magic Guard and Unaware sets are scared of Mega Scizor. However if Clefable decides to stay in, then it can just use Flamethrower to massively damage Scizor leaving it to either Roost or Bullet Punch you. Also pulling in the 10% chance for Flamethrower to burn Scizor, which has a huge effect on the rest of the match. However, it will obviously do less if its bulky Scizor.

0 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Scizor-Mega: 248-296 (72.3 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-252 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.

Another threat that can deal with Clefable is Mega Mawile. Mega Mawile is a threat because of its ability Huge Power not affecting Unaware and again, it is a steel type. Iron head easily OHKO's in this calc shown here. Once again, most Mawile's are built to outspeed Clefable and can easily wipe it.

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

One last threat I will mention is Heatran. Heatran can be a good Specially Defensive Pokemona and can have an offensive presence when equipped with a Z-Crystal. Heatran is really only a threat to Unaware since Heatran can easily just trap it with Magma Storm and Toxic it. However, seen as Magic Guard neglects Toxic, Heatran really isn't a problem for Clefable. One more thing I want to mention is that Offensive Heatran can run Steelium Z and can be a threat to both Clefables. Steelium Z can easily OHKO Clefable without even needing Modest.

252 SpA Heatran Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Clefable: 536-632 (136 - 160.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Magic Guard)
252 SpA Heatran Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 128 SpD Clefable: 498-588 (126.3 - 149.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Unaware)

That concludes my analysis on Clefable for the Top 10 National Dex OU Titans, I hope it gets in at the spot. I want to thank Sulo for helping me write this up.

I also want to thank Milo for reopening submissions for this project, I have been meaning to post Clefable for a while. Have a good day! :)
 
:ss/dracovish:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

This pokemon single-handedly warped the meta around itself, forcing every team that wanted to be competitively viable to either run one of a few select water immune pokemon, mainly :gastrodon: or :seismitoed:, or to consistently outoffense it, which was exceedingly hard to do due to :dracovish: often holding a scarf

In what main roles was Pokemon used?

Dracovish was often seen as a Choice Band mon, or particularly in rain, as a tremendous Choice Scarf user.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Simply put, Dracovish's power is unmatched. Nothing can withstand 2 rain boosted banded Fishious Rends.

252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth in Rain: 224-264 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NDOU?

You had to carry a water immunity on almost every team, and play around :dracovish: very carefully with it. The lack of good, reliable answers, was one of the deciding factors in :dracovish:'s eventual ban.
 
:ss/toxapex:


What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

It held the teambuilder hostage as if it's not preppared properly, the game would get very messy as the player can't break past/abuse it while passive damage will catch up quick and suffocate the player, leading to a messy game. As such, it caused offensive threats such as manaphy and volcarona spend a move slot specifically designed to destroy it, in this both case both use psychic.

In what main roles was Pokemon used?

Toxapex's role as a defensive pivot is unquestionable, as the combination of ridiculous bulk and regenerator makes it hard to take down as it switches into some of the most dangerous offensive threats easily such as mega lopunny, ash greninja etc. It's also notable that it's able to scout which dangerous sets that sometimes pex couldn't safely/properly check itself such as weavile(swords dance darkium), kartana(SD and band needs scald burns), clefable(calm mind LO thunder) etc.

On bulkier squads, Toxapex can afford to forego knock off and run toxic spikes as this utility move is something that's not commonly found on other mons. With so much opporutunity to come in pex might as well do something that would support its teammates more, and toxic spikes is the perfect move.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

It's a water type that's not instantly threatened by a powerful grass type move and a poison type that's doesn't invite ground types in since it threatens scald burns. It's superb bulk also makes sure pex could make full use of it's crucial resistances to water, fairy and ice while taking unboosted neutral hits easily, while super effective hits such as psychic moves will usually requires either a lot of external boosts such as psychic terrain, calm mind etc.

The combination of scald and knock off reduces a significant portion of mons having a good matchup that would want to switch in. Even for mons that have recovery outside of leftovers such as ferrothorn and zapdos, being forced to click the recovery move is abusable to get a dangerous teammate in(let's say CM magic guard clef here), especially for boots mons that are weak to rocks. Who cares if you are magic guard clef and being immune to burn, knocking off leftovers is still huge as the offensive mon(let's say mega latios here) will be able to exert offensive pressure easier as clef is more obligated to click softboiled than if it had leftovers, creating higher rewards for predictions(since clef will be at lower health).

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in OU?

It's passivity could be easily abused by slotting in zapdos, gliscor, ferrothorn, reuniclus etc. They get to make progress either by setting up hazards, removing it themselves or boost up, and in the grand scheme of things if you play them well the passive damage wouldn't set the mons affected on the back foot as much. Besides, getting powerful breakers in on the right spot could render toxapex useless on some occasions. Hazards stacking on it's own is also useful for making pex unable to pivot into something like ash greninja safely.
 

Fc

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I am nominating 2 pokemon

:ss/kartana: :ss/spectrier:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

Kartana is very good. Spectrier is even more good. If you don't have multiple checks to Kartana you're likely to just lose to certain sets (scarf, cb, z normal, def synth) and it's one of the best cleaners and forms of speed control. It shapes a lot of teambuilding as always, and is just ridiculous to switch into without a very limited pool of mons. Spectrier just killed shit and got banned because the tier was unplayable.

In what main roles was Pokemon used?

They are offensive, because they are strong.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Kart can kinda do everything, breaker, cleaner, revenge killer, defogger, so it sometimes can just pick its checks while also having a ridiculous everything (stats, movepool, ability). Spectrier had like half a check depending on the last move w sub np shadow ball, broken.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NDOU?

Zapdos, Buzzwole, Corviknight, Skarmory, Tangrowth, Latias, and Scizor are probably the best defensive kart answers but they still lose to some sets, and stuff like lando, heatran, ferro, and volcarona are soft checks. Spectirer didn't have ways to deal with it but you could do like Mandibuzz, Shadow Ball Blissey, and Tyranitar but they all lost to certain sets.

- National Dex Contributor Fc
 

adem

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:ss/cinderace:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?
Cinderace was one of Natdex's most controversial Pokemon having been suspected twice within a short time period as more and more deadly sets were explored, and for arguably being insanely broken and still staying in NatDex for a while. At the start, Cinderace, really and all the starters in general were all extremely overlooked as they lacked their hidden abilities making them at best niche breakers, at worst completely unviable. Suddenly their hidden abilities were released, with the standouts being Cinderaces Protean clone in Libero, and Rillabooms Grassy Surge + Grassy Glide combination. Cinderace quickly grew to be a top tier threat, especially with the new edition in Heavy-Duty Boots letting it pivot endlessly without punish. Cinderace's myriad of coverage options ranging from Gunk Shot to nail Tapu Fini, High Jump Kick to bop Heatran and Mega Tyranitar, Sucker Punch to prevent Dragapult from RKing it, and Zen Headbutt to remove Toxapex on the switch in, made Cinderace extremely annoying to deal with defensively, especially considering its main "STAB" already had a good offensive typing, and made it easy to wear down softer checks such as Landorus-T and Gliscor. It warped the meta extremely hard around itself, popularising physically defensive Water- and Ground-types such as Slowbro and Rocky Helmet Landorus-T, further boosting the popularity of other, now much less potent threats such as Ash-Greninja and Rillaboom. This singlehandedly popularised the infamous "BlissBro (+Corviknight/Zapdos)" Defensive core, which was arguably the most common core on teams during this time period. The dominance this Pokemon had on the metagame was so large that it made other Pokemon look banworthy themselves just due to how well it paired with it (Rillaboom), or how commonly they were used on teams as a blanket defensive core (BlissBro).

However, this was merely just the start of Cinderace's rampage across the tier... During the start of Cinderace's rise to glory, Pivot sets with Heavy-Duty Boots were what was seen as far too oppressive on teams and over-rewarding they were to use due to how they forced certain exploitable Team Compositions that was too repetitive to be seen as healthy to the metagame. Setup sets utilising Bulk Up or even Work Up were occasionally used on HO's as a breaker that could potentially lure one of Cinderace's checks and potentially break, but sometimes inconsistent and only really fitting well on HO. Soon after NDWC 1 concluded though, a new set emerged from the depths.... Bulk Up + Z Double Edge. This was definitely the straw that broke the camel's back for this blasted bunny, as it demolished every single one of Cinderace's checks with ease after a Bulk Up, not relying on a a specific coverage move or needing an item like a Life Orb to boost damage output while hurting longevity. Furthermore, the Defense boost from Bulk Up is extremely useful on a wide scale, preventing the likes of Landorus-T, Mega Swampert in Rain, and even Mega Lopunny's Fake Out + Frustration combo. This devastating set excelled on HO teams, like the one shown below, which was also turned into a sample team as well!
:landorus-therian: :victini: :magearna: :rillaboom: :cinderace: :gyarados-mega:
Heres also a replay from NDWC where this Cinderace set demolished the opposing team:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1294428140
This specific set flew under the radar for ages, with a whole suspect test for Cinderace went one without much exploration of this set. However, as this set was popularised, cries for another test ensued, and finally the bunny was banished.

In what main roles was Pokemon used?
The pivot set was by far the most popular, and really the only cause of concern for this Pokemon up until the middle of its stay in the tier, where set-up options were more explored, especially on HO. These setup sets were powerful breakers that easily removed at least one important Pokemon from the opposing team, and was extremely easy to be rewarded for using it. Pivot sets were still powerful and oppressive, and really rewarding on common Bulky Offenses that loved the free pivoting on passive checks like Toxapex and Slowbro, but wasn't what shattered the meta.

What caused it to have a significant impact?
The combination of amazing offensive stats, decent bulk for an offensive Pokemon, an extensive movepool to couple with a phenomenal ability coalesce to the monster that Cinderace was regarded as. It having a wide range of options was what initially brought it to light, it had coverage moves for every single one of its checks that were easily slotted on, and later on Norm Z was founded which tore through all its normal checks with ease.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in NDOU?

The popularisation of Bulky Waters such as Slowbro and Physically Defensive Toxapex were the main forms of counterplay, both generally sporting a Rocky Helmet to punish Ace's U-turns. Physically Defensive Lando T was also a common soft check on more offensive teams, although it is easily worn down after switching in once or twice to Pyro Ball. On Stall, Alomomola was the best counterplay to it in the tier, Regenning off U-Turn damage easily and chipping Cinderace with its Rocky Helmet. However, all of these quickly faltered once Cinderace clicked Bulk Up and fired off a boosted Breakneck Blitz.
 
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Kaede

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None of these are nominations i just wanted to get the ball rolling on some of our older threats that have since been banned and might be forgotten. Feel free to write about any of these.

- Mega Blastoise: absolute behemoth with shell smash and its specific coverage, letting it mow down most of the metagame back then and ended up getting tested
- Galarian Darmanitan, ash-greninja, Tornadus-T, Urshifu-S: all apart of the infamous big 5 ban wave of natdex. Tornadus-T managed to make its way back to a retest but unfortunately due to dlc giving it nasty plot + some of its other utility qualities it retained it ended up staying banned. Ash Greninja also got banned among the chaos and retested later on, being able to re enter the tier but imo this was honestly the least threatening of the big 5 and was just riding off the momentum the other 4 gave it back then. Other 2 were more or less monsters in the metagame, and with all 5 being at your disposal, it made prepping and even playing around them very hard.
- Dragapult: Very threatening pokemon with z-ghostium dd sweeper sets consuming the metagame. Ofc it also had other options like status sets or specs, and this kind of mix up could make it even more threatening to play around in practice. Ended up getting retested later on but still remained banned.

These were already nommed but i want to re iterate since they were some of the more interesting parts of history in natdex to me

-Spectrier: upon release people thought nothing of it since it had a huge problem bypassing dark types due to its subpar coverage and pursuit, and so eventually dropped to UU even. I dont remember the exact order of events but i want to say that overnight people realised the dark mu was not too bad and so began the development of sub sets to alleviate it somewhat. Dark types like Hydreigon and Zarude were forced to take a more defensive stance which while that also let them fill other roles was ultimately subpar to run them in that fashion. Blissey also had to adapt by running sball or pyswave so it was not complete setup fodder for spect but even then you could see how that is really a bad pick on blissey and even sets it back a lot. Without the right prep spectrier couldve devoured your teams in seconds.

- Cinderace: oh boy what a fun one. Originally got suspect tested since libero made it ultimately a pain with its coverage and speed tier, with various sets coming out of the wordwork from pivot to bu to even work up or mixed sets nichely. First suspect around it failed to get banned but then an emergence of a normalium set with dedge made it rise to the top, letting it take advantage of its biggest enemy, water types in slowbro, toxapex with relative ease.

For those not too familiar with earlier natdex i would recommend checking out the history of tiering in our metagame and checking out all of our bans' posts to see the reasoning, even if its not to nominate someone in this tier. We have an extensive histry and a bit of a chaotic start but how we developed to today natdex is a really wild ride. As someone who was there for the entire ride i can say i had a lot of fun back then and even now remembering the different aspects of our past metagames.
 
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Milo

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Voting will now commence! Vote for the #1 Titan spot from these options! Voting will last for 3 days!

:weavile: :landorus-therian: :kyurem: :magearna: :heatran: :tapu-fini: :mew: :lopunny-mega: :latias-mega: :metagross-mega: :greninja-ash: :zapdos: :serperior: :genesect: :clefable: :dracovish: :toxapex: :kartana: :spectrier: :Cinderace:
 
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Kaede

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Hey jumping in here to say there was a bit of an error with the vote. Voting is supposed to be for #1 not #10 spot. Responses above will be voided and we'll just start over. Deadline will be 3 days from now for the #1 spot.
 
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