Project Top 10 Titans of the Gen 8 AG Metagame

Fc

Waiting for something to happen?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Ubers Leader
The Top 10 Titans of the Gen 8 AG Metagame

Generation 8 has been, by far, the most tumultuous generation for AG. The start of the generation featured an extremely limited pool of Pokemon, as well as the introduction of Dynamax. After a little less than a month, it was decided that the format would switch to National Dex; while this did give us more options, it also represented the first time AG diverged from cartridge gameplay (and the decision ended up being quite controversial). Eventually, with the release of DLC 2 and Calyrex-Shadow, regular SS AG became the mainstay yet again, but entirely warped from any of its previous iterations.

largely stole this OP from ausma , thank you


With this thread, we will try to tackle the question of naming the ten most influential Pokemon throughout Gen 8.

From September 21st to October 9th, you will nominate Pokemon that will be voted on for the top 5 most influential Pokemon throughout Gen 8. After that, you will all evaluate all the nominations and individually rank the Pokemon from 1-10 by vote. Of course, all the nominations will count as long as they're reasonable and fit the criteria. Please keep in mind that we're not ranking Pokemon based on how good they are, but we're ranking Pokemon based on how influential they've been. When nominating Pokemon, consider their influence not just in the current Crown Tundra format, but in the Isle of Armor, Home, and Pre-Home metagames as well (if they were there, of course)! You are allowed to discuss SS Anything Goes as well as National Dex Anything Goes. However, it is also fine to discuss the potency of a nomination in DLC 1 SS AG if you choose instead of national dex AG, the main format at the time.

Please use the format below to frame your posts or we won't count them!

Enter your nominee's sprite here.
:ss/pokemon:

What effect did <insert pokemon name> have on the metagame?

Explain how the Pokemon affected the metagame as whole, and how the metagame adapted around it. A brief description of which Pokemon it countered and which Pokemon it did well against would be good here as well. Be sure to consider its impact in previous metagames (DLC 1 / pre home SS) as well, if applicable.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

Explain why this Pokemon was used on a team more often than most other Pokemon, and what was it particularly used for? What made it so good at this role?

What caused it to have a significant impact?

What exactly made this Pokemon have such a large impact on the metagame? Was it its stats, ability, useful resistances, amazing synergy, or the ability to sweep most of the metagame very easily? Did a certain Pokemon cause it to become that much better when it was partnered with it?

How do/did you deal with <insert pokemon name> in AG?

What are the best checks/counters to <insert pokemon name>? How does the metagame adapt to this Pokemon?


You're allowed to reserve nominations, but make sure to finish them in 24 hours, or they will be back up for grabs! Also, you can only reserve one nomination at a time. This is to make sure that your reservation gets done before you finish another. If you pick a Pokemon that has more than one forme, be sure to clarify which it is. Happy posting!




Do this. Thanks SparksBlade
 
Last edited:

Fc

Waiting for something to happen?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Ubers Leader
:ss/Necrozma-dusk-mane:

What effect did Necrozma-DM have on the metagame?

For people who didn't play AG during DLC 1 SS, Necrozma-DM might have been the best Pokemon ever created. With access to Dynamax and a limited dex there was essentially nothing beating it in most games at the time, with the only real limiter being that it had to switch into Zacian-C on more teams than it would like so it wasn't offensive as often. Otherwise, it was one of if not the most influential force for like a year+. You needed to have either Corviknight, Ferrothorn, or Rotom-W to take it on and even then certain sets it could run like Photon, Heat Wave, or defensive DD could beat these in the right scenarios. Now, and in NDAG, NDM is still one of the best mons around. Its defensive sets in NDAG have been used more to check Zacian-C and very soft check things like Ekiller and MRay, while in SS both defensive and dd sets see near 100% usage and it's consistently been the glue of every metagame.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

NDM has a lot of sets but generally there are 3 main ones: Defensive, Defensive DD, and Offensive DD. Defensive holds together the tier by checking Zacian-C and some Eternatus while having a lot of great utility moves like Twave, Toxic, and rocks. Defensive DD is really popular in current SS AG, sweeping through most teams with relative ease due to its bulk if the few checks it has are worn down. Offensive DD is more relegated to HO but it's still incredible, and almost a necessity on HO teams.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Literally everything, NDM is basically the perfect Pokemon. Great utility, broken ability, incredible stats, and boosting moves w good coverage for its offensive sets.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in AG?

Right now, Ferrothorn, Zygarde, Kyogre, Groudon, and Ho-Oh are the best checks defensively. They all have flaws in the matchup but generally can be relied on for most NDM sets. In Natdex, PDon and Arc types deal with it easier, but again they can be broken by DD or other sets, not to mention surprise Ultra Necrozmas. In early SS like I mentioned the checks were stuck to Rotom-W, Corviknight, and Ferrothorn for the most part, then trying to out-offense it with stuff like rain, sun, or sand teams.
 
Last edited:

Will

bad decisions
is an official Team Rater
:ss/calyrex-shadow:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

As soon as Calyrex-Shadow was introduced to the game, it singlehandedly marked the end of the exciting DLC1 NDAG and the old DLC1 SS AG. The sheer scale of its effects on the metagame can only be understood through the changes it has caused to the way teams are built and the way tier viability has shifted since its release.

Calyrex-Shadow's mere presence quickly shaped standard defensive cores across SS and ND AG. In SS AG, specially defensive Yveltal is now seen on most teams out of necessity of just checking Calyrex-Shadow. Ho-Oh, which always used to run heavy physically defensive spreads, saw dramatic change as everyone began to run specially defensive spreads for it to act as a Calyrex-Shadow midground. In ND AG, Yveltal, which was almost always run offensively as a Dynamax breaker, now saw far more use as a specially defensive pivot. Arceus-Dark, Ditto, and Arceus-Normal saw extreme rises in their usage rates. The fact that Calyrex-Shadow automatically forces people to dedicate a reliable switch-in just for itself is already incredible, but when you take into consideration that you also need a soft check for it on top of a reliable switch-in, you begin to realize just how restricting and impactful it is.

For those that didn't get the chance to try it out, DLC1 NDAG used to be a fun tier dominated by colorful Bulky Offense teams due to its teambuilding freedom. Although there were a million things you needed defensive counter play to, the six spots and dynamax often provided more than enough options for teams to be unique. Calyrex-Shadow entirely reshaped NDAG for the worse. It completely trivializes all of the unique breakers that flourished in DLC1 NDAG as it rode on a different level of power and speed. It was no longer possible to check all of the different breakers due to the restrictions set in place by Calyrex-Shadow, so teambuilding gravitated toward a more role-compressing style, favoring bulkier teams with blanket check Pokemon such as Calm Mind Defensive Arceus, Ho-Oh, and Ditto to the old aggressive bulky offense playstyle.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

Calyrex-Shadow is primarily used as a self-sufficient breaker and setup sweeper in SS AG and ND AG. It may also function as cleric support with Aromatherapy, natural speed control/incredible speed control with Choice Scarf, and a utility Trick user that can choice lock defensive pivots and late game breakers such as Calm Mind defensive Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Specially Defensive Yveltal, and Cosmic Power Eternatus.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Calyrex-Shadow is the most centralizing offensive force that this game has ever seen due to its insane offensive stats, access to Nasty Plot and Baton Pass, a base 120 STAB move, excellent coverage options, Dynamax capability, and crazy ability that provides excellent sweeping potential. Despite almost every team having a dedicated check in specially defensive Yveltal and other soft checks, Calyrex-Shadow is still able to make progress and win. In SS AG, it can force Dynamax 50-50s in your favor that decide the outcome of a game with its Life Orb + Nasty Plot + Substitute set. Want to be a bit safer? Try running Leech Seed + Substitute Calyrex, which basically automatically nets a kill on any team without U-Turn or Snarl Yveltal + speed control. Want to be able to break through your opponent's Yveltal while having Calyrex-Shadow role compress as speed control/cleric/a breaker? Try running Choice Scarf or Choice Specs.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in AG?

The most reliable way to deal with Calyrex-Shadow defensively in SS AG is with some sort of specially defensive Yvetal and another soft check. Some of the most popular soft checks are specially defensive Ho-Oh, Marshadow, and Ditto. The most reliable way to deal with Calyrex-Shadow defensively in ND AG is with some sort of switch-in (usually a Dark/Normal type) and another soft check. Examples of Calyrex-Shadow switch ins you can use are specially defensive Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, and Arceus-Normal. Examples of soft checks are specially defensive Ho-Oh, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Normal, Marshadow, and Ditto. Please note though, that due to Calyrex's access to Buginium-Z and Pollen Puff, Arceus-Dark is actually less reliable of a Calyrex switch in than you may think.

Dealing with Calyrex-Shadow offensively may be difficult as people can often create great windows to get Calyrex-Shadow in. However, running moves such as Knock Off/Thunder Wave on Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and Shadow Ball on Eternatus may reduce the amount of opportunities your opponent has to create progress with Calyrex-Shadow.

Please note that even after stacking multiple soft checks on top of a switch in for Calyrex-Shadow, you may find yourself in trouble due to its sheer offensive versatility. Teams without a Ditto may struggle against Nasty Plot + Baton Pass Calyrex-Shadow teams, while teams with a ditto may struggle against Trick Calyrex-Shadow teams that have a solid Calyrex-Shadow check of their own for when Ditto comes in.
 
Last edited:

Seldanna

is a Forum Moderatoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Moderator
:ss/Zacian-Crowned:

What effect did Zacian-C have on the metagame?

Zacian-C has always been a centralizing and defining threat since its introduction. At the start of the generation, it was one of three Ubers present, and so it was the natural centerpiece of the metagame. Given that it was checked by Pokemon like Quagsire, Corviknight, Scarf Dugtrio, and Excadrill at the time, sets like Agility were often seen. A few months later, Necrozma-DM was introduced, which curtailed Zacian a bit - Necrozma-DM checked most Zacian sets and had a threatening offensive presence of its own, as well as the ability to Dynamax. It should be noted that the omnipresence of Zacian-C forced Necrozma-DM into a physically defensive set; fully offensive Necrozma-DM was restricted to hyper offense. Assurance sets started to become more common a few months later, and by the time Crown Tundra released they were a mainstay.

Zacian-C became stronger overall with the release of Crown Tundra; the presence of more threats meant that there was too much pressure in the teambuilder to devote multiple checks to Zacian, allowing it to thrive. It also had good synergy with the newly released Calyrex-S, as both of these threats gained free momentum from each others' checks.

In what main roles was Zacian-C used?

Zacian-C can perform a number of different roles and is quite customizable to a team's need in general. That said, its most typical and foremost role is as a wallbreaker, and it is easily one of the strongest breakers in the tier, with very narrow counterplay both defensively and offensively. The standard set employs Behemoth Blade / Close Combat / Wild Charge, with the fourth slot being quite flexible - Assurance, Crunch, Swords Dance, Play Rough, and Rest can all be considered. Prior to the Crown Tundra and the introduction of Calyrex-S, Swords Dance Zacian-C was a good win condition for teams as well.

Unlike many other offensive threats of its caliber, Zacian-C has a lot of defensive utility as well - it's one of the best Yveltal checks, and when equipped with some bulk, it also checks boosted Dynamax Geomancy Xerneas, which even Necrozma-DM fails to do. It can even find a place on a few stall teams with a fully defensive Rest + Sleep Talk set, which checks Yveltal and is also much less passive than most walls that are considered on stall.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Zacian-C really has everything going for it! While on paper, its BST isn't too impressive for a Pokemon with a locked item, its stat spread is perfectly optimized, unlike almost every Uber introduced in prior generations. Intrepid Sword and a decently powerful STAB option in Behemoth Blade means that it can 2HKO almost every neutral target, even fully invested walls like physically defensive Tangrowth. It also has 'just enough' coverage to cover for its mediocre offensive typing - Wild Charge and Close Combat together hit almost every Steel resist, meaning that it can freely devote its last moveslot to overcome whichever check it wants. Behemoth Blade even ignores the effects of Dynamax, which is quite useful, given that two of the threats Zacian-C checks - Xerneas and Yveltal - are the most frightening offensive Dynamax users in the tier. Finally, perhaps one of the best aspects of Zacian-C was its unmatched speed - until the introduction of Calyrex-S, it was the fastest Pokemon in the metagame, and its speed stat of 148 is perfectly tuned to barely outpace base 130s, enabling it to viably use an Adamant nature.

Its typing, while mediocre offensively, brings a lot of defensive utility; in particular, it's the (second) best Knock Off absorber in the entire game, which is always a great boon in any SS metagame. It also has quite decent bulk to enable it to make use of all this.

How do/did you deal with Zacian-C in AG?

Necrozma-DM, Calyrex-Shadow, Ditto, Ho-Oh, defensive Zygarde-C, Quagsire, and Lunala are all forms of counterplay, listed in order of their splashability and potency as checks. In earlier iterations of SS AG, there were a few more checks that were commonly employed, e.g. Corviknight, Rotom-W, and Excadrill. Eternatus also used a physically defensive set, meaning that in some situations Zacian-C wouldn't want to contend with it directly.

It should be noted, though, that Zacian-C has ways to get around almost all of these checks. Assurance, Crunch, Swords Dance, and Fire Fang (on sun teams) allow it to threaten its most common check in Necrozma-DM, and Protect can be used to nullify Ditto. Calyrex-Shadow requires some chip damage to revenge kill it, and bulkier Zacian-C variants (such as a 96 HP / 84 SpD spread) survive even Life Orb Max Phantasm from full health. In past iterations of SS AG it was even possible to run into Solar Blade variants of Zacian-C that targeted Quagsire and Rotom-W, though this option is not remotely worthwhile anymore.
 
:ss/zygarde:

What effect did Zygarde have on the metagame? It can completely sweep teams depending on what set it has Sub Tox beats most stalls Sub Dragon Tail makes plenty of progress while being slight improof because of Dragon Tail's negative priority Life orb Zygarde can tech most of its counters superpower for Physdef Ferrothorn Crunch for Lunala and Iron tail or Rest are also great options so ditto can't come in and outrage your Zygarde. Lum zygarde and Trapper zyg are great for unexpected opponents and can even opt double ground moves with Dragon Dance and Rest to set up on Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Physdef zygarde with Coil/Haze,Rest,Thousand arrows, Toxic/Dragon Tail with Leftovers or Haban Berry to check Zekrom better. It's one of the best Pokemon in this metagame for a huge number of reasons

Explain how the Pokemon affected the metagame as whole, and how the metagame adapted around it. It counters most physical attackers and can just sweep teams by itself without any help from other teammates. It can be countered by some Xerneas Scarf Calyrex-Shadow and Physically defensive Kyogre Tangrowth can also be used but it has no use outside of Stall.
In what main roles was this Pokemon used?
Dragon Dance sweeper and Physically defensive Wall. Both of these are good options but you should generally opt for the offensive variant.

Explain why this Pokemon was used on a team more often than most other Pokemon, and what was it particularly used for? What made it so good at this role? It's ability Power Construct and its massive movepool that lets it effectively have no real counterplay unless the set is revealed by scouting movesets or Ditto.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

What exactly made this Pokemon have such a large impact on the metagame? Was it its stats, ability, useful resistances, amazing synergy, or the ability to sweep most of the metagame very easily? Did a certain Pokemon cause it to become that much better when it was partnered with it? It's stats synergy with breaking through mons with it's Life Orb set that lets its partners on HO have an easier time or just making a lot of progress vs balances. It's ability gives it quite a lot of hp to use up before resting or fainting to it's Lorb attacks. It doesnt resist anything except Sacred Fire and flamethrowers from Eternatus and Maybe some Thunder or Wild Charge mons that it can come on in a pinch.

How do/did you deal with Zygarde in AG? Xerneas Ferrothorn Ditto Kyogre or just dynamaxing Necrozma-Dusk-Mane if it isn't rest you should be able to 1v1 it.

What are the best checks/counters to Zygarde ? How does the metagame adapt to this Pokemon? Xerneas, Tangrowth, Ferrothorn, Kyogre, Ditto and generally anything that can take hits, scout sets, or be able to kill it first.
 
Last edited:
:ss/ho-oh:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?
Because of the introduction of Zacian-C in Gen 8, Ho-oh is being used more often, as it is one of the best counters and resists the STAB of Zacian-C. Zacian-C brings a huge threat to an opponent's team because of its high attack stat and its ability Intrepid Sword. As well as that, Ho-oh's move Sacred Fire, which is already super effective towards Zacian-C, has a 50% chance to burn the target, which can significantly reduce the effect of Zacian-C. In past generations, there had been less use of Ho-oh, because it could not counter the most used mons, such as Arceus and Mega-Rayquaza. Kyogre, another pokemon often used in past gen AG, could also easily counter Ho-oh, making it much less impactful in past generations.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?
Ho-oh is mostly used as a bulky, defensive support. Its hidden ability, Regenerator, allows it to heal by switching in and out, which is very useful for bulky pokemons. It also has access to the move Recover, again helping it tank hits. A high defense allows it to tank hits from Zacian-C, the main thing that it counters. It usually uses heavy-duty boots due to its typing, which is very weak against stealth rocks. Its large movepool, which consists of very useful status moves, such as toxic, T-wave and defog also makes it a good support.

What caused it to have a significant impact?
Mostly the release of Zacian-C. Not many things could counter it. Most people use defensive mons such as NDM, ferrothorn or Ho-oh when they want to switch into Zacian-C. This means Ho-oh is one of the best Zacian-C counters, which is why it now has such a big impact on the metagame.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in AG?
Water types such as Kyogre and Dracovish (some of the best water types in AG) could counter Ho-oh easily. Some Zacian-C also run wild-charge to deal with it. In NDAG, common pokemons such as Mega-Rayquaza and P-Groudon can also counter Ho-oh as they resist Ho-oh's most used move, Sacred Fire.
 
My nomination will primarily be focused on Arceus-Water in the DLC 1 ND AG metagame.

What effect did Arceus-Water have on the metagame?

As the metagame formed in the early stages of ND, it became clear that Xerneas, Zacian-C and Yveltal were the centralizing offensive forces in the metagame. As a result, many teams relied on very similar defensive cores consisting of the few Pokemon that could check them, as well as counterplay to these few Pokemon — Necrozma-Dusk-Mane and Ho-Oh were on nearly every non-HO team, and bulky Primal Groudon, Zygarde-C and defensive Arceus-Ground were also very commonplace. While their common movesets did change as the playerbase figured out what was optimal, the mons themselves largely remained prevalent.

As an aside, one of these changes was a shift away from mixed defense Necrozma-Dusk-Mane to fully physically defensive, which vastly improved its ability to check Zacian-C in exchange for a somewhat worse Xerneas and Eternatus matchup. This, in turn, led to a large decline in the honestly awful Rest + Sleep Talk Primal Groudon, which was what had previously been common as a primary Zacian-C check, and people started using moves that could actually make progress instead. Another change was the realisation that Refresh on support Arceus was a very good move, given most defensive Pokemon relied heavily on status to threaten things and make progress. This will be important later when I actually talk about Arceus-Water!

Anyways, the April 2020 sample teams update makes it evident just how common these Pokemon were, and how most teams would rely on essentially the same structure as their defensive backbone:

1665461237076.png
(click image for pastes)
n: 4/6 Arceus formes are Ground

Up until this point, Arceus-Water was seen as alright only; while its typing allowed it to check mixed Primal Groudon, something that had began rising in popularity, and it could properly threaten Ho-Oh and Arceus-Ground if it carried Judgment, it was still viewed as outclassed by the latter as a support Arceus forme, and it wasn't considered much beyond a standard set of Recover, Refresh, and 2 of Judgment/Ice Beam/Toxic. However, the aforementioned shift away from Rest on Primal Groudon allowed for room for more threatening Arceus-Water sets to appear. It's at this point when it truly took off as one of the best Arceus formes in the metagame.

Using Calm Mind on Refresh sets was the significant development for Arceus-Water that pushed it to the next level; with most Primal Groudon dropping Rest, it turned from a hard counter into an unreliable long-term check to Arceus-Water, as hazards would wear it down over time, and it would often struggle to make meaningful progress against teams Arceus-Water was on. In general, the metagame had become more unfriendly towards Primal Groudon too, and its usage was dropping. The playerbase had realised Mega Rayquaza was one of the best breakers in the format again, with Primal Groudon serving as an easy target for it to take advantage of, and the advent of Calm Mind Life Orb Kyogre with its ability to blow past Primal Groudon with Dynamax further disincentivized its use. As a sidenote, Calm Mind Arceus-Water was the best viable check to Life Orb Kyogre in the metagame, which is another thing that bolstered its usage.

Beyond Primal Groudon, there was very little else that could attempt to check Calm Mind Arceus-Water, and the small few mons that could faced their own issues with unfavourable metagame trends towards offense; as a result, it became a common occurrence to see Arceus-Water being used to check opposing Arceus-Water. More specifically, Whirlpool + Perish Song Arceus-Water became popular, as it was able to remove Calm Mind Arceus-Water before it amassed too many special attack boosts, still retained some of the defensive utility of support sets, and combined it with the ability to trap and remove large variety of defensive Pokemon.

In what main roles was Arceus-Water used?

Arceus-Water was mainly used as a bulky Calm Mind user, a Perish Song trapper, or a full support Arceus-forme.

What caused Arceus-Water to have a significant impact?

There was very little that could check Calm Mind Arceus-Water; its typing allowed it to set up on most of the metagame without much fear of getting KO'd, and allowed it to threaten Whirlwind Ho-Oh, the main issue that other Calm Mind + Refresh Arceus formes faced. With Dynamax, even offensive powerhouses like Zacian-C and Mega Rayquaza would fail to do much to it.

Defensively, it had the ability to check many of the metagame's offensive powerhouses such as Zygarde-C, Life Orb Kyogre, offensive Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Groudon-Primal and opposing Arceus-Water (depending on sets), as well as soft check Mega Rayquaza and Zacian-Crowned.

How do/did you deal with Arceus-Water in AG?

To deal with Calm Mind sets, teams would often use their own Arceus-Water (either Perish Song or Calm Mind). Other more niche Pokemon like Ferrothorn or Chansey would also be occasionally seen, while some teams would rely purely on offensive pressure to prevent it from getting any opportunities to set up. Perish Song sets were also threatening, but it often could only trap 1 Pokemon as it would take a Toxic or a good deal of damage in the process, and proceed to struggle to come in for the rest of the game. Aside from this, phazing from Pokemon like Ho-oh could soft check it, as well as one's own Whirlpool Arceus.
 
Last edited:
:ss/Arceus-Ground:

What effect did Arceus Ground have on the metagame?
Arceus Ground is one of the most versatile Pokemon in the Natdex AG format. It can play both an offensive or defensive role on a team. It has 3 main sets namely, Swords Dance, Calm Mind and Support sets,out of which the Swords Dance set is by far the most commonly used set due to its ability to break through several common defensive Pokemon like Primal Groudon, Necrozma Dusk Mane, Bulky Yveltal, Eternatus and Ho-Oh. It's also one of the best abuser of the Dynamax mechanics. Calm Mind Groundceus is an incredible setup sweeper, capable of easily setting up on common defensive mons like Bulky Necrozma Dusk Mane, Yveltal and some Bulky Arceus and Eternatus variants lacking Toxic. Support sets act as a check to the myriad dangerous offensive threats in the metagame most notably Primal Groudon and DD Zygarde, etc, while also providing important utility in defog support.
In what main roles was this Arceus Ground used?
Arceus Ground can play several different roles and can fit on many different playstyles. Swords Dance Arceus Ground is one of the best Wallbreakers, which can pick up KOs on common defensive Pokemon like Primal Groudon, Necrozma Dusk Mane, Bulky Yveltal, Eternatus, and Ho-Oh . Calm Mind sets can take advantage of passive defensive Pokemons to attain multiple boosts, and threathen a large variety of Pokemon like Mega Rayquaza, Primal Groudon, Zygarde, Necrozma Dusk Mane, Eternatus, defensive Arceus forms and Yveltal, etc . Both sets enjoy Hazard (Stealth Rocks, Spikes and Toxic Spikes) support which can be laid by Pokemon like Eternatus, Deoxys-S, Smeargle, etc, this lets it beat Pokemon which could generally take a hit from them like Bulky Arceus Forms, Ferrothorn, Bulky Primal Kyogre, etc. Support sets check several dangerous offensive threats like the above mentioned Primal Groudon, DD Zygarde and DD Necrozma Dusk Mane, Zacian Crowned and weakened Mega Rayquaza. It can also weaken walls like Ho-Oh, bulky Yveltal and Arceus forms with Toxic. Bulky Groundceus is also an incredible defogger.
What caused it to have a significant impact?
Introduction of the Dynamax mechanics led to the rise of Swords Dance Arceus Ground as one of the most dangerous sweepers in Natdex AG metagame. The extra power provided from Dynamax lets it KO Pokemons that could generally take a hit from it like Zygarde, Bulky Arceus forms, Mega Rayquaza, Bulky Primal Kyogre, etc. Another benefit of Dynamaxing is the special defense boost from Max Quake ,which in conjunction with Recover lets it sponge weak special attacks like Dynamax Cannon from Eternatus, Judgements from Bulky Arceus forms and even weak super effective moves like Ice Beams from Bulky Groundceus/Waterceus, etc.
How do/did you deal with Arceus Ground in AG?
Pokemon like Coil Zygarde, Bulky Arceus forms with will-o-wisp, Bulky Kyogre are some of the best defensive checks available for Swords Dance sets. Offensive checks include Ditto, Marshadow, Mega Rayquaza, Zacian Crowned, Calyrex Shadow, etc. Calm Mind sets can be dealt with through the use of specially defensive Ho-Oh, Ferrothorn, Blissey, Chansey, CM Kyogre, etc. Pokemon like Ho-Oh (Toxic can be a problem), Blissey/Chansey, Kyogre, CM Arceus forms and Ferrothorn can easily deal with support Groundceus. One of the best ways to deal with any Arceus Ground set is by toxic'ing them. Other than that, A Niche Pokemon I want to mention is Rotom-Wash, due to it's immunity to Ground Type moves, resistance to Ice Beam and access to moves like Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Pain Split, Foul Play can wall Both Offensive Arceus sets, although boosted Max Rockfall can easily break through it.

(I don't know if I wrote everything correctly and I feel like wrote the same thing multiple times)
 
Last edited:
:ss/xerneas:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

Xerneas defined Gen 8 AG from start to finish by virtue of being an elite profiteer of the Dynamax mechanic. Being one of the most anticipated Pokemon at Natdex AG's birth, it immediately solidified itself as the most dangerous wallbreaker, late-game cleaner, and wincondition packed into one. This landed Xerneas a spot in the S rankings on the very first iteration of Gen 8 AG's viability rankings alongside its canine counterpart in Zacian-C. Xerneas was so feared at its debut, that teams would often run no less than four Fairy-resists (Necrozma-DM, Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, and Zacian-C) in order to stand a chance against Dynamax Xerneas, instigating teambuilding paranoia in a sense that no other Pokemon has ever emulated bar Gen 6 Darkrai, Gen 7 Mega Rayquaza, and Natdex AG Dynamax Yveltal. Previously respected presences such as Arceus-Dark, Ultra Necrozma, and Calm Mind Arceus-Fairy vanished from the metagame at this early stage, largely due to Xerneas's presence. Even though Xerneas had to eventually share its crown with Zacian-C, Dragon Dance Mega Rayquaza, and Dynamax Yveltal, it remained a blood-curdlingly fearsome monster during the entirety of pre-Crown Tundra Natdex AG, shaping the defensive metagame around it at all times and ending on a high note with the advent of the Geomancy + Substitute set, which would eventually replace Max Flare sets as the standard.

With the release of Crown Tundra, Xerneas made its debut in SS AG, and an imposing one at that. Adopting its Geomancy + Substitute set, it picked up right where it left off again. Although Xerneas didn't manage to claim a spot at the coveted S rankings this time around, it sure did not stop annihilating just as many teams as it had before, especially with the emergence of a highly synergystic partner in Calyrex-S, which not only lured in Yveltal for Xerneas to feast on, but also amplified Xerneas's prowess tremendously with Baton Pass. Once again, Xerneas mandated the usage of Necrozma-DM on any team hoping to be viable. Xerneas was a leading cause behind the prosperity of Speed control in the metagame too, as without it, Xerneas would always overpower Necrozma-DM and continue its sweep as though it was facing a team of six Rattata's. Much like in its early days, when Xerneas did the unthinkable by monopolizing the structure of more than half of any team, it closed the curtains with one last unthinkable metagame development by ushering in a cursed era of SS AG in which it managed to fit itself into a team not once, but twice. These iconic 'Double Xern' teams terrorized the metagame in its ending stages, allowing Xerneas one last hurrah. Xerneas truly darted over SS AG's finish in style, having left a wake of destruction in its journey spanning two entire years and many, many casualties.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

Xerneas was primarily used as a wallbreaker and late-game cleaner packed into one. It would partner with behemoths such as Assurance Zacian-C, Dragon Dance Mega Rayquaza, Nasty Plot + Baton Pass Calyrex-S, Eruption Primal Groudon, and Calm Mind Kyogre, which allowed it to enable a late-game-clean for these Pokemon, or profit from the wallbreaking capabilities of said Pokemon and become the late-game cleaner itself.

Xerneas was used as a bulky wall and a Choice Scarf user sporadically as well, courtesy of its well rounded stats and excellent typing and movepool.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Read the above, but the most important factor was undoubtedly the combination of Geomancy, Fairy Aura, and Dynamax.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in AG?

Xerneas counterplay fluctuated over time, but the constant in the equation has always been Necrozma-DM and the preservation of one's own Dynamax. However, this itself was never enough. Some popular ways to further obstruct Xerneas were the Primal Groudon + Necrozma-DM + Ho-Oh (+ Zacian-C) core, Choice Scarf Ditto and Calyrex-S, Extreme Speed Mega Rayquaza and Arceus, bulky Zacian-C, and Chansey on stall.
 
Last edited:

Fc

Waiting for something to happen?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Ubers Leader
:ss/groudon:

What effect did Groudon have on the metagame?

In SS DLC 2, Groudon is incredibly hard to check. Lunala and defensive Zygarde are rare but the best options, otherwise people usually just Dynamax on it or force it out with Kyogre / Marshadow. Airstream sets make this harder if it gets going but its main issue is setting up and a lack of recovery. Defensive, on the other hand. makes bulky Kyogre really appreciated and enables defensive NDM a lot, which does cause quite a few issues for a lot of teams. It's a super strong force that can't be ignored when building otherwise it'll just steamroll you unless you completely outplay it. In NDAG, Airstream Groudon is mainly checked with defensive Arceus dynamaxing + a revenge killer or the occasional defensive Zygarde-C if it's already transformed (otherwise Groudon drops it).

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

In NDAG Groudon is pretty much only offensive, using Max Airstream with Aerial Ace to sweep pretty much everything that isn't a revenge killer + opposing dynamaxed Arceus. Competes with Primal Groudon for a role of just existing on a team but it's still got a niche, and was more used before dlc 2. In SS Groudon is one of the best, most versatile Pokemon. It has the same Max Airstream set which is an autowin vs some teams, a normal offensive set with SD Twave or SD Heat Crash, and very useful defensive glue sets since it has rocks.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Groudon forces specific counters otherwise it'll run over your team, and unlike other breakers its actual answers aren't Yveltal, Necrozma-DM, or Eternatus. So unless you wanna dedicate a slot to Lunala, Zygarde, or something similar, you're likely to get ran over by some Groudon sets after they get positioned or at the very least will be forced to use Dynamax defensively.

How do/did you deal with Groudon in AG?

Lunala, Kyogre, Zygarde, Quagsire, Giratina, and Landorus-T in SS, and Water / Groundceus additionally in NDAG are the best general defensive answers. Marshadow, Yveltal, Kyurem-W, and Calyrex-S can force it out if it hasn't boosted its speed, with Marshadow and Yveltal actually hoping it boosts its attack and can't Dynamax to take it out easier.
 
Last edited:
:ss/yveltal:

What effect did Pokemon have on the metagame?

Yveltal was one of the most dangerous dynamax sweepers in generation 8. With max airstream to boost its speed and a dark aura boosted max darkness, it could sweep through teams, and even threaten its checks, such as specially defensive eternatus, ho-oh, and in ndag support arceus forms (because for some reason arceus got stopped by the galar border patrol) by lowering their special defense. The introduction of calyrex-shadow caused specially defensive yveltal to rise, and made yveltal the most used mon in both gen 8 anything goes and national dex anything goes, and present in nearly all viable teams. Offensive yveltal also appreciated the introduction of calyrex-shadow, as nasty plot + baton pass calyrex-shadow into yveltal allowed it to tear through teams.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

Yveltal had two main roles, that being specially defensive yveltal and offensive dynamax sweeper yveltal. Specially defensive yveltal was the single best check for the everpresent calyrex-shadow. It often runs defog to remove hazards, roost for recovery, u-turn to keep momentum, and knock off to cripple mons such as ho-oh or opposing yveltal that would try to switch in, causing them to lose their items. It can also run taunt to prevent entry hazards from pokemon like ferrothorn or ndm, defogs from ho-oh or opposing yveltal, completely shutting down blissey, or preventing mons from setting up. It could also run snarl to deal with subseed sets on calyrex-shadow. It is usually paired with physically defensive ndm on balance teams, as it checks zacian and xerneas, mons that specially defensive yveltal has trouble dealing with.

Offensive yveltal is the other common yveltal sets, which sees usage on hyper offense teams. It is one of the most potent dynamax sweepers in the tier. The speed boost from max airstream, and a dark aura boosted max darkness to lower opposing mons special defense allows it to break through its usual checks, such as spdef eternatus and ho-oh. Yveltal usually runs dark pulse, oblivion wing, sucker punch, and heat wave. Heat wave allows it to kill zacian-crowned while dynamaxed, and the max airstream boost allows it to outspeed it. Sucker punch is used to revenge kill calyrex-shadow. Dark pulse is its main source of damage, and while dynamaxed, allows it to overpower some of its usual checks. Oblivion wing gives it access to the max airstream boost, as well as giving it recovery, allowing it to last longer. This yveltal set pairs well with calyrex-shadow, as nasty plot + baton pass makes yveltal nearly unwallable once dynamaxed, even breaking through mons such as xern, blissey, and support arceus forms such as arceus fairy. It could also run taunt to shut down opposing hazards, defoggers, recovery, as well as completely shutting down blissey. It occasionally runs focus blast to defeat tyranitar, which otherwise walls yveltal. While uncommon, it can also be paired with butterfree with the moves quiver dance, baton pass, substitute, and sleep powder, allowing yveltal to raise its speed without relying on max airstream.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

The introduction of dynamax in generation 8 made yveltal a dangerous sweeper. Yveltal became the staple of anything goes once calyrex-shadow was introduced, making yveltal the most used mon in anything goes, as it was one of the only checks for calyrex-shadow. Calyrex’s nastypass sets gave yveltal even more wallbreaking power, allowing the already powerful sweeper to become even more dangerous.

How do/did you deal with this Pokemon in AG?

The best checks for yveltal are specially defensive ho-oh, eternatus, and yveltal. While uncommon, tyranitar also gave most yveltal sets trouble, although it loses to yveltal that carry focus blast. Yveltal could also be revenge killed by ditto after using up its dynamax.
 
Last edited:

Dracofish

Banned deucer.
:ss/dracovish:

What effect did <insert pokemon name> have on the metagame?

Dracovish clicked fishous rend. Things died. Except for primal groudon.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

It was mainly used in trick room teams, which allowed it to abuse banded fishous rend.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

It had an impact because of the power of fishious rend.

How do/did you deal with <insert pokemon name> in AG?

Primal groudon, eternatus, bulky water types like toxapex.



tldr: fish clicks funny button
 
Last edited:
:ss/Rayquaza-mega: What effect did Mega Rayquaza have on the metagame?
Mega Rayquaza since the time it was introduced has been a menace and was the very reason of the introduction of the tier anything goes. Hence almost every viable balance/ BO team in national Dex ag and usum ag have to use atleast 2 slots just to check a single mon besides having numerous mons in ag to think about thus proving how drastically it affected the meta game. It has been used in most teams since it's bane existence was enough to raise the question That it's not why you would use mega ray in an AG team it was why wouldn't you use it?


In what main roles was this Pokemon used?
Mega ray was and still is one of the most potent and significant wallbreaker in AG due to its movepool and being the only mega which could hold an item making it more versatile and hard to predict it's item slot moves etc which made it even more brain work as mega ray itself being so strong attracted the players attention to think to deal with it both while teambuilding or battling henceforth not being able to keep sufficient coverage for partners such as primal kyogre and a variety of arc forms. Needless to mention it's signature stab move Dragon Ascent was already enough to ohko or 2hko even max max arc forms or bulky mons which can't resist the move with the help of choice band .


What caused it to have a significant impact?
As mentioned earlier in brief let's expand the topic now diverting towards its moves items and stats in details. Majority of the impact it caused was ofcourse due to its signature move dragon ascent which with a huge base power of 120 alongside mega Ray's huge 180 base attack and item support was a thing every player had to worry about while building or play around it through hard predicts. Besides it ran moves such as V-create for steel types waterfall with cb OR moves such as surf on scarfed sets for primal groudon leads and not allowing it to set up rocks. The mixed Life Orb set with max speed and draco meteor dragon ascent also allowed it to deal with stuff like zygarde and defensively invested arc forms which would get koed by d ascent after a d meteor.
It also has a decent speed stat after its mega form attaining a speed of 361 atax which could be amplified as a revenge killer or a become a surprise for players since u can't predict whether it's band or scarf forcing matches to become hype level mind games so as to ensure not losing to ray. And Finally the classic life orb dragon dance ray which has always been one of the most popular ray sets and with +1 LO d ascent and eq ray could wipe out teams. It also has priorities such as extreme speed which with choice band/ LO/ or even without anything helped save it's teammates from sweepers at low health as it hits like a truck. Also a underated set due to arc fairy existing is a choice specs set which can fairly be as destructive when built around but isnt as commonly used as the moves and sets mentioned above since d ascent already occupies one slot and it wouldn't make sense to invest two move slots on two flying type moves hence arc fairy walling it. Moves like scale shot also allowed it to break through sash Pokemon or lv 1 fear strat mons.


How do/did you deal with Mega Rayquaza in AG?
Mega rayquaza is one of the very few Pokemon having no counters aka free switchins to it due to its huge stats classic movepool and a free item slot allowing it to be more devastating. But some checks include bulky arceus forms most of them which are ev'd to outspeed Ada mega ray and burn it with wil o wisp making it easy to handle with recovery. Zygarde with glare coil rest also handles it to some extent after para and rest due to its bulk especially after power construct is activated but this set dies to the mixed LO Draco meteor set. Pokemon such as mega gengar and priorities like e speed arcs are also used to revenge kill m ray since it's easier to revenge kill ray than to check it due to the reasons mentioned above. Pokemon such tyranitar with defense investment can also trap a cb m ray into a predicted d ascent and pursuit trap and heavily damage it after def drops or mega gengar after one of its allies are down can revenge kill with moves like shadow ball/ sludge wave. Necrozma dusk Mane with rocky helmet is also used with its allies to predict and chip down ray such as ndm+ ho oh to predict v create and d ascent or cb attacks.


Finally i would like to mention a line:
Mega Rayquaza was is and will be a god amongst the gods of the AG metagame. Thanks and please consider if i missed out few points. Have a very nice day ahead ag nerds!
 
:ss/dracovish:

What effect did <insert pokemon name> have on the metagame?

Dracovish clicked fishous rend. Things died. Except for primal groudon.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

It was mainly used in trick room teams, which allowed it to abuse banded fishous rend.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

It had an impact because of the power of fishious rend.

How do/did you deal with <insert pokemon name> in AG?

Primal groudon, eternatus, bulky water types like toxapex.



tldr: fish clicks funny button
:ss/Rayquaza-mega: What effect did Mega Rayquaza have on the metagame?
Mega Rayquaza since the time it was introduced has been a menace and was the very reason of the introduction of the tier anything goes. Hence almost every viable balance/ BO team in national Dex ag and usum ag have to use atleast 2 slots just to check a single mon besides having numerous mons in ag to think about thus proving how drastically it affected the meta game. It has been used in most teams since it's bane existence was enough to raise the question That it's not why you would use mega ray in an AG team it was why wouldn't you use it?


In what main roles was this Pokemon used?
Mega ray was and still is one of the most potent and significant wallbreaker in AG due to its movepool and being the only mega which could hold an item making it more versatile and hard to predict it's item slot moves etc which made it even more brain work as mega ray itself being so strong attracted the players attention to think to deal with it both while teambuilding or battling henceforth not being able to keep sufficient coverage for partners such as primal kyogre and a variety of arc forms. Needless to mention it's signature stab move Dragon Ascent was already enough to ohko or 2hko even max max arc forms or bulky mons which can't resist the move with the help of choice band .


What caused it to have a significant impact?
As mentioned earlier in brief let's expand the topic now diverting towards its moves items and stats in details. Majority of the impact it caused was ofcourse due to its signature move dragon ascent which with a huge base power of 120 alongside mega Ray's huge 180 base attack and item support was a thing every player had to worry about while building or play around it through hard predicts. Besides it ran moves such as V-create for steel types waterfall with cb OR moves such as surf on scarfed sets for primal groudon leads and not allowing it to set up rocks. The mixed Life Orb set with max speed and draco meteor dragon ascent also allowed it to deal with stuff like zygarde and defensively invested arc forms which would get koed by d ascent after a d meteor.
It also has a decent speed stat after its mega form attaining a speed of 361 atax which could be amplified as a revenge killer or a become a surprise for players since u can't predict whether it's band or scarf forcing matches to become hype level mind games so as to ensure not losing to ray. And Finally the classic life orb dragon dance ray which has always been one of the most popular ray sets and with +1 LO d ascent and eq ray could wipe out teams. It also has priorities such as extreme speed which with choice band/ LO/ or even without anything helped save it's teammates from sweepers at low health as it hits like a truck. Also a underated set due to arc fairy existing is a choice specs set which can fairly be as destructive when built around but isnt as commonly used as the moves and sets mentioned above since d ascent already occupies one slot and it wouldn't make sense to invest two move slots on two flying type moves hence arc fairy walling it. Moves like scale shot also allowed it to break through sash Pokemon or lv 1 fear strat mons.


How do/did you deal with Mega Rayquaza in AG?
Mega rayquaza is one of the very few Pokemon having no counters aka free switchins to it due to its huge stats classic movepool and a free item slot allowing it to be more devastating. But some checks include bulky arceus forms most of them which are ev'd to outspeed Ada mega ray and burn it with wil o wisp making it easy to handle with recovery. Zygarde with glare coil rest also handles it to some extent after para and rest due to its bulk especially after power construct is activated but this set dies to the mixed LO Draco meteor set. Pokemon such as mega gengar and priorities like e speed arcs are also used to revenge kill m ray since it's easier to revenge kill ray than to check it due to the reasons mentioned above. Pokemon such tyranitar with defense investment can also trap a cb m ray into a predicted d ascent and pursuit trap and heavily damage it after def drops or mega gengar after one of its allies are down can revenge kill with moves like shadow ball/ sludge wave. Necrozma dusk Mane with rocky helmet is also used with its allies to predict and chip down ray such as ndm+ ho oh to predict v create and d ascent or cb attacks.


Finally i would like to mention a line:
Mega Rayquaza was is and will be a god amongst the gods of the AG metagame. Thanks and please consider if i missed out few points. Have a very nice day ahead ag nerds!
Nicely written Op :thumbs up:
 

Fc

Waiting for something to happen?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Ubers Leader
:ss/marshadow:

What effect did Marshadow have on the metagame?

Marshadow has pretty much always been good, being a staple breaker in ndag and ss ag since the beginning. It forces a lot of pokemon like fast eternatus and phys.def groudon in ss while also being one of the few ways to soft check caly-s, and in ndag it is able to steal boosts from cm arcs and neutralize a chipped ekiller, so a lot more defensive Arceus and Zygarde are used to check it there. If you don't have anything faster than Marshadow on a team you better have a really good reason, and some even better walls to take it on.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

Marshadow is pretty much exclusively either a CB wallbreaker or a Life Orb attacker / Bulk Up user. Its incredible attack and speed allows it to be one of the strongest offensive forces in the tier even with its average other stats.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Almost nothing can reliably switch into Marshadow with hazards up, but especially its revenge killing ability is important. Shadow Sneak is so strong and it has incredible speed so not many things want to take on the 1v1 vs Marshadow. This forces a lot of 50/50's and also necessitates some teams to run a super solid counter just in case a Marshadow shows up because their breakers don't want to take it on.

How do/did you deal with Marshadow in AG?

In SS AG: Zygarde, defensive Groudon, defensive Xerneas, Ho-Oh, Eternatus, and revenge killers like Zacian-C and Scarf Ogre are the best ways to keep it in check.
In NDAG: Most of the above are okay still with defensive Xern being kinda bad, but Arceus types add a new layer of protection vs Marshadow. They can live any 2 hits from Life Orb if physically bulky and are generally the best ways teams have for Marshadow. Mega Sableye also does decently vs it.
 
Last edited:
:ss/Gothitelle:

What effect did Gothitelle have on the metagame?

The three most common phrases in an AG Tournament Player's vocabulary might be "glhf", "gg" and "gentleman no goth?" in that order. Gothitelle, wielding the most terrifying ability in Pokemon, Shadow Tag, is known and feared for it's ability to slowly and excruciatingly dismantle defensive Pokemon, most notably NDM, but also Blissey, Zygarde, Eternatus, defensive Groudon, and several Arceus forms in NDAG, as well as many others. Most commonly using a set of Charm, Taunt, Cosmic Power and Rest, though also sometimes Substitute, Gothitelle would PP by PP erode anything and everything it could. Entire sets and spreads were developed specifically to deal with Gothitelle, and in matches where it is present, every switch to one's NDM is done in paralysing fear of the threat of a Gothitelle read.

In what main roles was this Pokemon used?

Gothitelle was for the most part a complete one trick pony, but its trick is excellent. It identifies targets in team preview that give its teammates trouble, and through double switches, conditioning, or just blind luck, would shackle them down for 100 turns of pain.

What caused it to have a significant impact?

Gothitelle shines brightest when paired with Zacian-C, as the Psychic-type is the best teammate the Galar legendary could ask for. Everything that could potentially stand in the way of Zacian-C was obliterated by a well-timed Gothitelle, except for perhaps Dragon Tail Eternatus, which even then lost to Substitute variants of Gothitelle, and whirlwind Lugia and Ho-Oh, which have to deal with Taunt and PP stalling. This Zacian-Goth relationship is perhaps the single most frightening and frustrating offensive core in Gen 8 Anything Goes.

How do/did you deal with Gothitelle in AG?

Truthfully, Gothitelle is not really something that you can play around. It beats what it beats and does nothing to what it can't, and if you are unlucky enough to switch in your defensive Pokemon at the wrong time, there is nothing you can do. Gothitelle is mostly limited by the fact that any mon with even decent offensive prowess can use it as set-up fodder. Gothitelle teams also suffer from the trapper taking up a teamslot, and often simply cannot defend against every offensive threat. Shed Shell of course is also a hard-counter, but is rarely used due to taking up valuable item space. Regardless, whether you are well-equipped to deal with Gothitelle or not, one thing is almost guaranteed: It's not going to be fun.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top