OU Tornadus-T

dragonuser

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Overview
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With access to an amazing offensive ability in Regenerator, Tornadus-T returns to OU as a fantastic offensive pivot. Regenerator offsets both Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage, reducing the overall damaging effect of entry hazards, and works fantastically with U-turn. With its blazing Speed stat and good movepool, Tornadus-T is able to outspeed most of the unboosted metagame and hit hard with its good Special Attack stat. The main downside to using Tornadus-T is its over-reliance on rain if it wants to use its most powerful STAB, Hurricane. Also, while Flying may be a fantastic offensive typing, it is fairly lackluster defensively, limiting the amount of Pokemon Tornadus-T can switch into. While Tornadus-T can do a lot of damage once its on the field, it requires proper team support and planning to get in, limiting its overall use in the metagame.

Pivot
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name: Pivot
move 1: Hurricane / Air Slash
move 2: Superpower / Focus Blast
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: U-turn
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive

Moves
========

Hurricane serves as the main move of this set, being Tornadus-T's most powerful attack, and also has a confusion chance to potentially help break through walls. However, if Tornadus-T isn't being used in conjunction with Politoed or manual Rain Dance, Air Slash can be used for a reliable Flying-type STAB. Superpower completes Tornadus-T's coverage, beating common Flying-type resists such as Heatran or Tyranitar, while also hitting common specially defensive walls such as Blissey hard. Knock Off allows Tornadus-T to neuter special walls such as Blissey or Chansey by removing their Leftovers or Eviolite, respectively, allowing them to be worn down easier through the course of the match. Tornadus-T also serves as one of the best Knock Off users, threatening nearly every Mega Evolution that would commonly switch into the move. Focus Blast can be used to give Tornadus-T a more powerful attack; while it does worse against common special walls, it generally gets more damage against the rest of the metagame. U-turn allows Tornadus-T to make full use of Regenerator and deal valuable chip damage. Rain Dance can be used over Knock Off if Tornadus-T is not paired with Politoed and still wishes to use Hurricane. However, it is important to note that Tornadus-T has a much harder time cleaning up without Knock Off as it hits otherwise hard counters such as Aegislash while also being able to remove passive healing from special walls.

If Tornadus-T is used outside of rain, Heat Wave can be used in order to reliably take down Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn. Taunt can also be used, preventing entry hazard leads as well as special walls from healing themselves.

Set Details
========

The EVs are focused on maximizing Tornadus-T's Special Attack and Speed stats, allowing it to hit as hard as possible while maintaining its crucial Speed tier. A Life Orb is used to increase Tornadus-T's damage output, with Regenerator healing the Life Orb damage. An Assault Vest can be used instead of Life Orb in order to bolster Tornadus-T's Special Defense. This, when paired with U-turn and Regenerator, makes Tornadus-T less of a powerful wallbreaker and more of a bulky pivot.

Usage Tips
========

When using Tornadus-T, you always need to be cognizant of how many turns of Drizzle are left. If Tornadus-T is weakened, U-turn + Regenerator is not only a great way to gain momentum, but also a great way to slowly heal Tornadus-T back to full health. Early in the match, it is often best to start by using Knock Off, as this allows Tornadus-T to neuter its checks' passive healing, meaning after a few more confrontations where Tornadus-T U-turns on them, they should be within KO range. This strategy will only work if Tornadus-T is paired with partners which can threaten common checks to it, preventing said checks from healing the U-turn chip damage.

Team Options
========

If Hurricane is used, Politoed is an almost mandatory partner, giving the attack 100% accuracy. Tornadus-T pairs well with other momentum move users, allowing it many chances to switch in; (Mega) Scizor, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W are thus excellent partners. Even with Regenerator, Tornadus-T appreciates Defog or Rapid Spin support, making Latios a very good partner, with it also resisting Tornadus-T's Electric-type weakness. Due to the amount of switches Tornadus-T causes, it pairs very well with common Stealth Rock users such as Garchomp and Mega Aggron, both of which resist its Rock-type weakness.

Other Options
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A Bulk Up + Acrobatics set can be used, with its main allure being that it is not rain dependent; however, without Flying Gem it is quite difficult to use. The lack of Life Orb power also greatly reduces Tornadus-T's wallbreaking capabilities. Alternatively, a Choice Specs set can be used, but this is generally inferior due to the inability to switch attacks and lack of Knock Off. Grass Knot can instead be used to hit specially defensive Hippowdon, while Hidden Power Ice can be used to target Dragon-types such as Garchomp and Dragonite.

Checks & Counters
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**Specially Defensive Walls**: Perhaps the best answer to Tornadus-T is Mega Ampharos, which resists Tornadus-T's STAB while also being immune to Knock Off. Specially defensive walls such as Skarmory and Zapdos also make for good checks to Tornadus-T, being able to reliably take every attack. Heatran also makes for a decent check, being able to take an attack and threaten back with Toxic or a STAB Fire-type attack. Specially defensive pivots such as Rotom-W and Rotom-H make for good checks as well, resisting Tornadus-T's STAB attack and threatening back with STAB Electric-type attacks.

**Steel-types**: Resisting Tornadus-T's STAB moves, Steel-types such as Aegislash and Assault Vest Escavalier are good checks if it lacks Knock Off. Specially defensive Mega Scizor also works quite well, only fearing a possible Heat Wave.

**Offensive Checks**: Due to its heavy reliance on its Speed stat, Tornadus-T does not invest in its bulk very much, making faster threats such as Aerodactyl, Greninja, and Choice Scarf users reliable checks. Tornadus-T can also be checked by priority users such as Ice Shard Mamoswine and Bullet Punch Scizor.
 
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CoolStoryBrobat

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I could be wrong and don't quote me on this but I heard somewhere this guy gets Aeroblast, which is basically a special Flying move that lets it play pretty effectively outside rain, and would offer a huge reworking of its main set.

Also I tried using an Acrobatics set with Fling + King's Rock since Flying Gem is unavailable. I doubt it's worth an analysis but maybe worth an OO mention when QC takes a look at it? Idk
 

dragonuser

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I heard that too, but decided to not implement it until it is fully confirmed


edit: was taking a look at the research thread and it is looking quite unlikely that Tornadus gets Aeroblast. Will keep an eye out for it though
 
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Mario With Lasers

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Tornadus doesn't learn Aeroblast, that was a hoax/mistake someone made up a couple weeks ago, after Sacred Fire Entei had been spotted.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Im unimpressed with the assault vest set because it is so weak. The damage output is just pathetic with air slash. But I guess it functions as a pivot.
 

dragonuser

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Yea thats why I have it in AC

its not really worth a main slash imo


ah true, fixed
 
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It doesn't fit for Assault Vest to be mentioned in the set comments, move it to OO. It's going to have to use a different EV spread and it won't be able to use Rain Dance, meaning it's going to be used much differently.
 
dont think this kid needs hurricane. i've been using air slash / turn / power / knock off and it has been working very well. it's a very nice talonflame partner due to weakening rotom, luring heatran and tyranitar, and you don't feel u are overly reliant on rapid spin b/c of regenerator.
 

dragonuser

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Slashed Air Slash after Hurricane, so that Tornadus-T has a non rain reliant option

thanks
 
Is there any reason Hasty is chosen over Naive? Naive would let it take priority like Azumarills Aqua Jet or Scizors Bullet Punch a little better, while there really aren't many viable special attackers that are strong and fast enough to become a threat to this thing (no Jolteon doesn't count)
 
Overview

I would probably mention something about its Flying typing. Flying is a decent attacking type offensively, but it doesn't have much going for it defensively, as it packs common weaknesses to Rock, Electric, and Ice. I'd say it's a mixed bag of sorts.

Moves

Hurricane's confusion chance can be really helpful in bypassing certain checks/counters, you can make note of that.

I don't really get what you mean by this:

"Superpower should really only be used if Knock Off isn't used, in favor of manual rain"

Can you expand on this?

"If Tornadus-T is used without Politoed, or it just wants to ensure rain stays up longer, then Rain Dance can be used over Knock Off. However, it is important to note that Tornadus-T has a much harder time sweeping without Knock Off"

Why does it have a much harder time to sweep? I get that it takes out special walls' Leftovers, but that doesn't mean it can overcome them easily. What does Knock Off provide coverage against and stuff?

Set Details

Move the Heat Wave mention to the "Moves" section.

Checks and Counters

Perhaps mention Bullet Punch Scizor and Ice Shard Mamoswine?

QC APPROVED 2/3
 

Jukain

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Overview
Regenerator not only offsets both Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage, making it essentially immune to entry hazards, but works fantastically in conjunction with pivot moves such as U-turn.
This is worded confusingly; U-turn is the only 'pivot move' Tornadus-T gets. Reword to something alone the lines of:

"Regenerator offsets both Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage, reducing the overall damaging effect of entry hazards, and works fantastically with U-turn."

Set

I'm not sold on how you present Knock Off vs. Superpower. Look at vs. Chansey:

- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 299-354 (42.4 - 50.2%)
- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 121-143 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chansey: 199-235 (28.2 - 33.3%) -- 97.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 121-143 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
- -1 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 200-237 (28.4 - 33.6%)

Knock Off does garbage damage to Chansey. Yeah it removes its Eviolite, but you still do crap damage to it. vs. Blissey:

- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 408-481 (57.1 - 67.3%)
- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 165-195 (23.1 - 27.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- -1 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 273-322 (38.2 - 45%)

So Superpower lets you win here; Knock Off, not so much. vs. Aegislash:

- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 130-153 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 88-104 (27.4 - 32.3%)

Not bad...especially since you take Shadow Ball really nicely...but Aegislash can just KS and then:

- -2 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 65-78 (20.2 - 24.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- -2 4 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Knock Off vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 44-55 (13.7 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 73-86 (22.7 - 26.7%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

So, against Aegislash, if it rightly plays and goes for KS (a move it would use to scout considering Knock Off is the first slash), then Tornadus-T isn't doing jack with Knock Off -- even Hurricane is outdamaging it. Considering SR (25%), two average rolls of Shadow Ball (31%), and 2 turns of LO, Tornadus-T is losing. The only way to beat Aegislash is with Heat Wave, which 2HKOes.

For the Jirachi matchup, it depends on the set. SDef Jirachi takes Knock Off and then Wish + Protects back up, at safe HP to paralyze it afterwards, thus crippling it. Jirachi can't switch into Knock Off, but can RK with either Trick to cripple its sweeping ability or Ice Punch -- a guaranteed 2HKO with SR + 2 turns of LO. Phys Def Jirachi can take the Knock Off ok and then para Tornadus-T, thus entirely crippling it. It entirely depends on the Jirachi as to whether you win or lose. Superpower, no Superpower, you still lose. The only way to beat Jirachi is Heat Wave, which does massive damage to Scarfrachi and 2HKOes Phys Def Jirachi.

I understand how awesome the utility in removing Leftovers(/Eviolite) on these Pokemon is, but 1v1, I can't see Tornadus-T actually winning in the majority of scenarios solely by proxy of Knock Off. It doesn't do enough damage to win against the Pokemon you mention. You sell Knock Off as a great way to damage special walls, but its power just isn't there. You correctly state how to use it in the usage tips, but sell it the wrong way in the moves section. Just say how it gets rid of the items of these foes, making them easier to wear down, in the Moves section, not 'reliably damage special walls'.

EDIT: I realize that Knock Off isn't for 1v1 scenarios, but that's the way it was presented in the moves section.

Checks and Counters

You can mention bulky Megazor. Also, Kyurem-B, at full HP, can take a Focus Blast or Superpower in a pinch (Superpower it can even take after SR) and eliminate Tornadus-T with Ice Beam. Mega Mawile can serve as a check, as an (I guess) Mega Manectric. Bronzong is good against it, as are, generally, Rotom-H and Rotom-W. SDef Skarmory, Zapdos, (shudders) Mega Ampharos, AV Escavalier (though it fears its item being Knocked Off), and CroCune, with varying degrees of effectiveness and viability, work as well. There are a lot of things to mention; the current C&C is rather skimpy.
 
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alexwolf

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Why is Focus Blast even on the main set when Superpower is 100% better? OHKOes Tyranitar, 2HKOes Blissey, and has perfect accuracy, while Focus Blast is lol. Move it to Set Details.
 

dragonuser

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Talked with jukain on irc and fixed wording on Knock Off as there was a bit of confusion on what it implied

My main reasoning for Focus Blast is that it is just a really strong attack and often one of Tornadus-Ts best ways to do big damage if it opts for Air Slash over Hurricane. There are common situations where Focus Blast is the obvious better choice, for example against Physically Defensive Rotom-W (arguably Tornadus-T's most common check/counter in the metagame) where Focus Blast does something like 47-55% while Superpower maxes at like 30%. Even vs Specially Defensive they both do roughly the same, making Focus Blast the arguably better move vs Rotom-W. In Sand Tornadus-T still OHKOs 252/0 Tyranitar w/ Focus Blast and 1 U-turn + Focus Blast easily Kos max SpDef. The only real downsides to Focus Blast is its accuracy and lower damage vs Chansey / Blissey (and lets be honest its not like Chansey / Blissey are on 99% of teams, even stall forgoes their spot in most cases for like Clefable or w/e), in almost every other scenario Focus Blast is nearly as good or better than Superpower.

I'm fine with making it a secondary slash I guess, but I really think something that has to rely on Air Slash as a primary attack out of rain appreciates the power that Focus Blast brings and it probably deserves at least a secondary slash because of that.

edit: 252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chansey: 291-343 (41.3 - 48.7%)
^Focus Blast damage after Eviolite has been knocked off
 

alexwolf

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Torn-T should be used in rain so the lack of power is not an issue. Anyway, you can keep Focus Blast slashed second.
 
Possibly a stupid question, but is it really worth it to have full investment in Special Attack when three of the main slashes are physical?
 

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