Torrent Zapdos (BW OU)

Torrent Zapdos!
A BW OU Team by Snapback​
Hey everybody (generic greeting)! So I decided to make a new team after my Porygon-Z team was a bit... limited. I myself am a very fluctuating battler as I for some reason can never stay good or bad. It did well but no better. So with weather war being all the rage I decided to jump on the bandwagon. I abuse my weather, but it mostly there so I can just get rid of other's weather. This team has its flaws, but I am having a hard time pinpointing them. Zapdos is the star of the team which is how I decided on the title and the fact that a torrent is a downpour of water. But enough of vocabulary, let's get on to the team.

First off my team never really changed. I just added till I found some good synergy and pokes that would work. This is the first team that I haven’t switched Pokemon completely, but I am still completely willing to change everything.

I started with Politoed because I like rain the best out of all the weather. Defensive Toed is always my choice as I don’t think choicetoed is worth a spot on the team, but everyone has their opinions.

Next I knew that Terrakion and one of the biggest checks to it is CB Scizor and being a favorite of mine since I was a child, I decided to go with him. Plus he can play with fire in the rain :p (just a little bit but still).

So with 2 physically oriented pokes and my lack of a rapid spinner I decided to use a fully special defensive Hitmontop. Rapid Spinning plus Intimidate to help with his aver defense helps.

Now with a spinner I thought to myself that I need some hazards of my own. Using it's typing and ability to hax to the winner circle I choose Jirachi

My lack of a special attacker led me to Togekiss. Who can absorb EQs for Jirachi.

With Rotom-W being such a pain, Gastrodon is the perfect counter, walling it almost completely.

Attempting to patch some big holes, I have switched Togekiss and Hitmontop with Zapdos and Tentacruel.





Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Protect
- Scald
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam

Being the only heavy rain starter besides Kyogre, Politoed was the obvious choice. I prefer a defensive Politoed so that’s the set I chose. The EVs and Nature are for maximum defense. Protect can help me scout out which Pokemon are carrying which sets and what they’re planning to do. Toxic goes in conjunction with Protect helping my stall out an opponent. Scald is my source of STAB in the rain, but it works for any set-up physical sweepers. I find it handy sometimes. Ice Beam is mainly for the Dragons. 2HKOs DW Dragon Dance Dragonite with ability still intact. I am not so sure how it does with bulkier Dnites though.


Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Terrakion and Ttar check. Pretty standard Scizor as is very powerful. Adamant and max attack to maximize the damage I give. U-Turn is a great STAB and gives me some damage while getting to switch. Bullet Punch is what scares the big boy Terra away. Superpower is for Ferrothorn who would wall me and Blissey. Pursuit for pesky Psychics that I know will switch out trying to stay alive.


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect
- Scald

Replacing Hitmontop, Tentacruel is a much more reliable supporter. In the rain with Rain Dish and Black Sludge, he gets so much HP back and ridiculously annoying to any Fighting types that don't carry EQ. Toxic Spikes helps my other walls so they don't have to spend their turn using Toxic. Protect helps stalling and get some free HP back. Scald is a solid STAB and can get burns in crucial times (ES Lucario trying to sweep me).


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Wish
- Stealth Rock

Hax all day. SG saves me a lot. Iron Head as a good STAB and can flinch the opponent. Body Slam to paralyze the opponent and get some damage on them, but I am leaning towards Thunder Wave for sure paralysis. Wish is always helpful and keeps Rachi and the others going. Stealth Rock is my only source of hazards as I feel Spikes just takes too long, but it’s very nice to get that extra damage on foes. Jirachi is my other special wall, and most specifically Dragons.


Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Heatwave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

Replacing the amazing Togekiss which was the ex-star of the team comes Zapdos. It has amazing bulk already so an offensive set can be very very threatening. Thunder takes full advantage of the Heavy Rain, and HP Ice is mainly to hit Gliscor who is damn annoying. Heatwave on a rain team is a bit odd, but Zapdos walls Ferro and Scizor so I can switch and still hit them hard. Plus if Abomasnow wants to come in on one without knowing, I have won the weather war. Roost is to give Zapdos a longer life span.


Gastrodon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 6 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

A great assest to the team and is very useful against Rotom-W as it always has to hard switch rather than Volt Switch. Scald gives me the ability to burn specific mons who otherwise can do heavy damage. Earth Power is another source of STAB. Toxic can help Gastro stall out any pokes and with Recover I can effectively keep stalling. Max SDef gives me perfect stalling against pesky Rotoms, which I love and hate them so much at the same time.​

Gliscor – I don’t know why, but I can never get rid of this thing. I guess it’s the way I play because I have the tools to take it don’t, but it can just out stall any of my defensive Pokemon. Swords Dance variant is a big threat.

Celebi – So annoying. With it still alive and healthy I can’t effectively use Gastrodon or Politoed. My only way of checking is Jirachi or Scizor, but if I am fighting for weather I have to be very careful of the HP Fire and that still isn’t fun when it has Earth Power. Nasty Plot variants are extremely threatening.

Abomasnow - Not a immediate threat, but a good player can make it one. It likes my rain team as it lacks many fighting, and fire type attacks. Zapdos is a good counter for him, but otherwise I am in a nutshell.

Bulk Waters - I am just putting them altogether. Damn they're so annoying. When Zapdos is gone, I can't hit them worth squat besides status. I have trouble with Vaporeon and Milotic to be exact though.

Breloom - He is so damn deadly. He can easily put something to sleep and sub when I switch. The proceed to wreck havoc. Zapdos does manage to somewhat wall it and hurt it with HP Ice, but it usually switches and even then hits like a truck.


That's my team. Thanks for the read and any helpful suggestions are welcome.
 
hey back with another team i see! if you are in need of an offensive rapid spinner to replace Hitmontop i can reccomend Life Orb Starmie he benefits from rain alot to boost his stab Hydro Pump. i hope this helps and great team!
 
hey back with another team i see! if you are in need of an offensive rapid spinner to replace Hitmontop i can reccomend Life Orb Starmie he benefits from rain alot to boost his stab Hydro Pump. i hope this helps and great team!
Yeah, finally decided to make a new one, after my Porygon-Z team was fun, but lackluster. Starmie definitely could help out my Gliscor problem. I will try him out, thanks!
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
If you are having problems with Celebi you may want to use a bulkier version of Togekiss, which can help you too much more against stall teams, while providing an extra check to celebi (having Scizor, Jirachi and Togekiss means you have Celebi well covered)

Togekiss @ Leftovers | Serene Grace
Modest | 252 Hp / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Nasty Plot / Air Slash / Heal Bell / Roost

As a spinner for your team, I would highly recommend using Tentacruel, because it provides another check for fighting types, as well as providing Togekiss with the really helpful Toxic Spikes support, which is abused by the flinches that Togekiss and Jirachi are constantly inducing:

Tentacruel @ Leftovers | Rain Dish
Bold | 252 Hp / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Toxic Spikes / Scald / Rapid Spin / Protect

I also think you should change your Gastrodon spread to 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD with a Bold Nature, since you don't really need max special attack, and it would allow it to stop volturn teams much more easily.
 
If you are having problems with Celebi you may want to use a bulkier version of Togekiss, which can help you too much more against stall teams, while providing an extra check to celebi (having Scizor, Jirachi and Togekiss means you have Celebi well covered)

Togekiss @ Leftovers | Serene Grace
Modest | 252 Hp / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Nasty Plot / Air Slash / Heal Bell / Roost

As a spinner for your team, I would highly recommend using Tentacruel, because it provides another check for fighting types, as well as providing Togekiss with the really helpful Toxic Spikes support, which is abused by the flinches that Togekiss and Jirachi are constantly inducing:

Tentacruel @ Leftovers | Rain Dish
Bold | 252 Hp / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Toxic Spikes / Scald / Rapid Spin / Protect

I also think you should change your Gastrodon spread to 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD with a Bold Nature, since you don't really need max special attack, and it would allow it to stop volturn teams much more easily.
Alright thanks for rate! I am going to definitely tries these sets when I have the time.
 

Honus

magna carta
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey cool team.

Anyways I feel like CB Terrakion and SD Roost Scizor are somewhat problematic for this team. CB Terrakion is able to double switch in on Gastrodon or a somewhat beleagured Politoed and proceed to wreak havoc with Close Combat alone. Close Combat is capable of 2HKOing every member of your team [OHKOing in Gastrodon's case], which is somewhat unfortunate since Terrakion outspeeds every member of your team. You do have Scizor to kill it with priority Bullet Punch, but keep in mind that Close Combat does 85.13% - 100.58%, so you are extremely hard pressed to switch in, especially with Stealth Rock up. SD Roost Scizor is a bit less threatening, but it is able to damage Jirachi, your own Scizor and Hitmontop, which will have trouble taking it down and taking its boosted hits. Togekiss, Gastrodon and Politoed may be able to take it on thanks to their attacks, but they should be wary of its powerful STAB, which can damage them quite a bit and possibly take them down after some prior damage. While you aren't completely SD Roost Scizor weak, it does pose a threat to you and could possibly pull off a sweep late game since you lack a solid counter. Anyways I think you could fix both of these holes easily by trying a Tentacruel over your Hitmontop. Tentacruel can lay Toxic Spikes so that Terrakion burns itself out and can also take Close Combats, which is usually CB Terrakion's move of choice. Tentacruel also benefits from the rain much more than Hitmontop and is great with Rain Dish, plus it gives you a pretty solid counter to SD Roost Scizor, since it outspeeds and Scald 2HKos with burn damage, not to mention it resists both of Scizor's STAB.


Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes


Anyways, I also think you have trouble breaking rain stall somewhat, as you usually depend on Togekiss's hax to break through, but it could easily take a Toxic or Seismic Toss from Chansey which will burn it out pretty fast, Dragonite has the same possibility of beating it as it can Thunder if Air Slash doesn't flinch, dealing some heavy damage your way. Additionally, any Scarfed Politoed or SubCM Rachi with Thunder [Undisputed's set] can outspeed you and take you out, thereby ending your sweep. I do think that Togekiss is a good way to dent Rain Stall, however, and can work extremely well with SubCM Rachi, since both of them can pretty much boost and then luck their way past their counters. Simply put, there is now way in hell that Dragonite or Chansey can take on both SubCM Jirachi and Nasty Plot Togekiss, given Serene Grace's major luck factor and the fact that both of them are boosting their Special Attack. Since you're changing Jirachi to a SubCM variant however, I think you should probably use a Specially Defensive spread on Gastrodon, which, with Jirachi will still be able to counter and take on the many special threats in the metagame, so you aren't losing out on that much if you change Jirachi to a SubCM variant.


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunder
- Water Pulse / Psyshock / Psychic
- Calm Mind



Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Earth Power / Earthquake [Relaxed if you do this]
- Toxic
- Recover
 
Hey cool team.

Anyways I feel like CB Terrakion and SD Roost Scizor are somewhat problematic for this team. CB Terrakion is able to double switch in on Gastrodon or a somewhat beleagured Politoed and proceed to wreak havoc with Close Combat alone. Close Combat is capable of 2HKOing every member of your team [OHKOing in Gastrodon's case], which is somewhat unfortunate since Terrakion outspeeds every member of your team. You do have Scizor to kill it with priority Bullet Punch, but keep in mind that Close Combat does 85.13% - 100.58%, so you are extremely hard pressed to switch in, especially with Stealth Rock up. SD Roost Scizor is a bit less threatening, but it is able to damage Jirachi, your own Scizor and Hitmontop, which will have trouble taking it down and taking its boosted hits. Togekiss, Gastrodon and Politoed may be able to take it on thanks to their attacks, but they should be wary of its powerful STAB, which can damage them quite a bit and possibly take them down after some prior damage. While you aren't completely SD Roost Scizor weak, it does pose a threat to you and could possibly pull off a sweep late game since you lack a solid counter. Anyways I think you could fix both of these holes easily by trying a Tentacruel over your Hitmontop. Tentacruel can lay Toxic Spikes so that Terrakion burns itself out and can also take Close Combats, which is usually CB Terrakion's move of choice. Tentacruel also benefits from the rain much more than Hitmontop and is great with Rain Dish, plus it gives you a pretty solid counter to SD Roost Scizor, since it outspeeds and Scald 2HKos with burn damage, not to mention it resists both of Scizor's STAB.


Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes


Anyways, I also think you have trouble breaking rain stall somewhat, as you usually depend on Togekiss's hax to break through, but it could easily take a Toxic or Seismic Toss from Chansey which will burn it out pretty fast, Dragonite has the same possibility of beating it as it can Thunder if Air Slash doesn't flinch, dealing some heavy damage your way. Additionally, any Scarfed Politoed or SubCM Rachi with Thunder [Undisputed's set] can outspeed you and take you out, thereby ending your sweep. I do think that Togekiss is a good way to dent Rain Stall, however, and can work extremely well with SubCM Rachi, since both of them can pretty much boost and then luck their way past their counters. Simply put, there is now way in hell that Dragonite or Chansey can take on both SubCM Jirachi and Nasty Plot Togekiss, given Serene Grace's major luck factor and the fact that both of them are boosting their Special Attack. Since you're changing Jirachi to a SubCM variant however, I think you should probably use a Specially Defensive spread on Gastrodon, which, with Jirachi will still be able to counter and take on the many special threats in the metagame, so you aren't losing out on that much if you change Jirachi to a SubCM variant.


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunder
- Water Pulse / Psyshock / Psychic
- Calm Mind



Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Earth Power / Earthquake [Relaxed if you do this]
- Toxic
- Recover
Thanks for rate! I see what you're saying about the Terrakion, but I haven't come cross too much trouble from it. I am definitely going to try Tentcruel as you're the second person so recommend it.

I will try the other sets as well. But one problem I see is no Rocks or Spikes. Any suggestions? Also Gastrodon is a bit difficult to get pass.
 

Jimera0

You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Yeah I'm with Karpman on most of his suggestions. I do worry a bit about the added ground and electric weakness from Tentacruel, but really Hitmontop just isn't going to cut it, especially not specially defensive. I know from hard experience that Tentacruel is an absolute BITCH to take down in the rain, and Toxic Spikes should really help you get past walls (which your team doesn't seem to have a lot of ways to get past).

However this doesn't help your Gliscor problem. I know what you're talking about with him. No one expects to have trouble with him on a rain team yet in my experience he's always been a nuisance. Largely this is because they'll switch out whenever they're in danger and then come back later when you have something out they can wall. The best way to beat it in my experience is usually to simply wall it until it's the last Pokemon or to let it set up then revenge kill it (people are often more reluctant to switch out a boosted Pokemon even though it usually leads to it getting killed I've noticed). However in order to revenge it you need something that's, well, capable of revenging it. Togekiss can do so with HP Ice for slower variants, but Acrobat will just tear you a new one. As such, I suggest just maybe switching out Togekiss for offensive Zapdos, which gives you the same ground immunity and special attacking power while also being able to deal with common threats such as CB Terrakion locked into CC, Scizor, and of course, Gliscor. It also gets a massively powerful 100% accurate Thunder to play with, and I shouldn't need to point out how awesome that is. Of course you lose the star of your team, but you're likely to get a new star in the process!

Set for yah:

Zapdos @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Thunder
- HP Ice
- Heat Wave (still hits Scizor and Ferrothorn hard even in rain)
- Roost

You can tweak it as you go along of course, but seriously Zapdos is a massively under appreciated threat in the Rain.
 
Yeah I'm with Karpman on most of his suggestions. I do worry a bit about the added ground and electric weakness from Tentacruel, but really Hitmontop just isn't going to cut it, especially not specially defensive. I know from hard experience that Tentacruel is an absolute BITCH to take down in the rain, and Toxic Spikes should really help you get past walls (which your team doesn't seem to have a lot of ways to get past).

However this doesn't help your Gliscor problem. I know what you're talking about with him. No one expects to have trouble with him on a rain team yet in my experience he's always been a nuisance. Largely this is because they'll switch out whenever they're in danger and then come back later when you have something out they can wall. The best way to beat it in my experience is usually to simply wall it until it's the last Pokemon or to let it set up then revenge kill it (people are often more reluctant to switch out a boosted Pokemon even though it usually leads to it getting killed I've noticed). However in order to revenge it you need something that's, well, capable of revenging it. Togekiss can do so with HP Ice for slower variants, but Acrobat will just tear you a new one. As such, I suggest just maybe switching out Togekiss for offensive Zapdos, which gives you the same ground immunity and special attacking power while also being able to deal with common threats such as CB Terrakion locked into CC, Scizor, and of course, Gliscor. It also gets a massively powerful 100% accurate Thunder to play with, and I shouldn't need to point out how awesome that is. Of course you lose the star of your team, but you're likely to get a new star in the process!

Set for yah:

Zapdos @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Thunder
- HP Ice
- Heat Wave (still hits Scizor and Ferrothorn hard even in rain)
- Roost

You can tweak it as you go along of course, but seriously Zapdos is a massively under appreciated threat in the Rain.
I agree on Zapdos. I am sure I can make more out of him then I am with Togekiss.

I have seen problems with Abomasnow (so many bugs I need to fix with this team that I never saw).
 
New Team Members:

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Protect
- Scald

Replacing Hitmontop, Tentacruel is a much more reliable supporter. In the rain with Rain Dish and Black Sludge, he gets so much HP back and ridiculously annoying to any Fighting types that don't carry EQ. Toxic Spikes helps my other walls so they don't have to spend their turn using Toxic. Protect helps stalling and get some free HP back. Scald is a solid STAB and can get burns in crucial times (ES Lucario trying to sweep me).


Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Heatwave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

Replacing the amazing Togekiss which was the ex-star of the team comes Zapdos. It has amazing bulk already so an offensive set can be very very threatening. Thunder takes full advantage of the Heavy Rain, and HP Ice is mainly to hit Gliscor who is damn annoying. Heatwave on a rain team is a bit odd, but Zapdos walls Ferro and Scizor so I can switch and still hit them hard. Plus if Abomasnow wants to come in on one without knowing, I have won the weather war. Roost is to give Zapdos a longer life span.
 

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Heatwave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

Yah I'm not too sure as to why you actually have heat wave on your zapdos. Incase you don't know or just made a typo or just whatever, fires power is weakened by 50% in rain. Thats like hitting not very effective damage on what should be neutral. Also if you really need scizor down, Thunder will do more damage because of the stab and more power. That probably should be changed for Toxic or Roar to stop people from setting up on you. As for Ferrothorn, you can just roar him out and deal with him with another pokemon while taking advantage of toxic spikes and strealth rocks. Nice team though.
 

dice

your favorite player's favorite player
is a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnus
Heat Wave hits Scizor harder in rain and most Scizor are in sand do its a good unexpected lure.
 

Jimera0

You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Heatwave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Roost

Yah I'm not too sure as to why you actually have heat wave on your zapdos. Incase you don't know or just made a typo or just whatever, fires power is weakened by 50% in rain. Thats like hitting not very effective damage on what should be neutral. Also if you really need scizor down, Thunder will do more damage because of the stab and more power. That probably should be changed for Toxic or Roar to stop people from setting up on you. As for Ferrothorn, you can just roar him out and deal with him with another pokemon while taking advantage of toxic spikes and strealth rocks. Nice team though.
I knew that when I suggested the set, and it has its advantages. Remember a lot of the fire weak Pokemon in OU are 4x weak, so you're still hitting them super-effectively in the rain. Nuetral Thunder is NOT more powerful than super-effective Heat Wave, even in rain. Stab Thunder: 180BP SE Heat Wave: 200BP. More importantly though, you can't always guarantee Rain will be up and being able to hit things outside of rain is pretty damn important too. It also gets Pseudo STAB in Sun, a weather that usually cripples rain abusers giving Zapdos an effective 150BP Fire move to use in place of it's usual effective 180BP electric move, preventing it from becoming useless should the weather change. Finally, as mentioned Abomasnow would be utterly raped by it.

Roar is an option too though should Heat Wave prove less useful than wanted in practice, but usually on an offensive team like this hitting shit is more useful, especially since using HP Ice means things are less likely to set up on it since most things that would do so on sets lacking it will get destroyed by it (most of them being Dragon types).

Oh, and just for fun, additional benefits of Zapdos over Togekiss:
-20 more base speed
-Fighting type resistance
-Scizor counter
-Wallbreaking power from that beastly Thunder
-Only a slight decrease in bulk you were hardly using anyway.

and you get the picture. Glad you liked my suggestion :)
 
Heat Wave hits Scizor harder in rain and most Scizor are in sand do its a good unexpected lure.
I knew that when I suggested the set, and it has its advantages. Remember a lot of the fire weak Pokemon in OU are 4x weak, so you're still hitting them super-effectively in the rain. Nuetral Thunder is NOT more powerful than super-effective Heat Wave, even in rain. Stab Thunder: 180BP SE Heat Wave: 200BP. More importantly though, you can't always guarantee Rain will be up and being able to hit things outside of rain is pretty damn important too. It also gets Pseudo STAB in Sun, a weather that usually cripples rain abusers giving Zapdos an effective 150BP Fire move to use in place of it's usual effective 180BP electric move, preventing it from becoming useless should the weather change. Finally, as mentioned Abomasnow would be utterly raped by it.

Roar is an option too though should Heat Wave prove less useful than wanted in practice, but usually on an offensive team like this hitting shit is more useful, especially since using HP Ice means things are less likely to set up on it since most things that would do so on sets lacking it will get destroyed by it (most of them being Dragon types).

Oh, and just for fun, additional benefits of Zapdos over Togekiss:
-20 more base speed
-Fighting type resistance
-Scizor counter
-Wallbreaking power from that beastly Thunder
-Only a slight decrease in bulk you were hardly using anyway.

and you get the picture. Glad you liked my suggestion :)
Yeah Heatwave is the way to go in the rain or not. I won't be redundant and tell Diet why though.

Yeah Zapdos is just a beast so thanks :.
 
Hey with your current team, I have noticed that VoltTurn teams can quite screw you if Gastrodon goes down. On your Scizor, I recommend changing the EV spread to 240 HP/252 Atk/16 Spd. Not much of a change, just one point of HP turned to speed so you can outspeed Scizor of the same variant and hit it hard with Superpower so the VoltTurn chain is broken. Also, some people suggested to me to use a TTar variant that has 44 speed EVs to outspeed Choice Band Scizor and Fire Blast it before it can U-turn. This spread also outspeeds that variant of TTar.

You can change Zapdos' EV spread as well since you are simply at a base 100 speed and you won't be outspeeding much since the current metagame focuses on either speed or bulk. An alternate EV spread of 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd along with a Modest Nature allows you to outspeed at least all base 80s with max speed EVs and a neutral nature such as 252 Spd Adamant Dragonite. Sacrificing speed for bulk and power won't let you down that much, trust me. Also since you're using Heat Wave in a rain team, it'll appreciate a little boost in power



Scizor: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef -> 240 HP /252 Atk /16 Spd to outspeed other Scizor of the same variant and the random TTar.

Zapdos: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd+Timid Nature -> 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd+Modest Nature to outspeed base 80s and to add bulk and power.
 
Hey with your current team, I have noticed that VoltTurn teams can quite screw you if Gastrodon goes down. On your Scizor, I recommend changing the EV spread to 240 HP/252 Atk/16 Spd. Not much of a change, just one point of HP turned to speed so you can outspeed Scizor of the same variant and hit it hard with Superpower so the VoltTurn chain is broken. Also, some people suggested to me to use a TTar variant that has 44 speed EVs to outspeed Choice Band Scizor and Fire Blast it before it can U-turn. This spread also outspeeds that variant of TTar.

You can change Zapdos' EV spread as well since you are simply at a base 100 speed and you won't be outspeeding much since the current metagame focuses on either speed or bulk. An alternate EV spread of 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd along with a Modest Nature allows you to outspeed at least all base 80s with max speed EVs and a neutral nature such as 252 Spd Adamant Dragonite. Sacrificing speed for bulk and power won't let you down that much, trust me. Also since you're using Heat Wave in a rain team, it'll appreciate a little boost in power



Scizor: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef -> 240 HP /252 Atk /16 Spd to outspeed other Scizor of the same variant and the random TTar.

Zapdos: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd+Timid Nature -> 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd+Modest Nature to outspeed base 80s and to add bulk and power.
Thanks for the rate! I changed my EVs to those sets as I do need more bulk on Zapdos and the Scizor is a shocker to Ttar that think the will OHKO, when I actually do and instantly win the weather war.
 

Jimera0

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Just a quick note, that while giving Zapdos more bulk should help you against some things that it WILL let you down should you have the misfortune of facing a Jolly Mamoswine like I use. It WILL OHKO your Zapdos with Icicle Crash before you can Heat Wave it. Indeed, Jolly Mamo will sweep your team unhindered with a little prior damage to Politoed, Gastrodon and with Scizor out of the picture. Just hope you don't run into me on the ladder with that set up, because I WILL wreck you :P.

Of course as long as you keep your other checks healthy you should be OK... but just keep in mind that +Spe base 80s can give you some real trouble after your team gets weakened a bit. Gyarados (ok it's base 81 same difference) in particular is really threatening if it runs EQ, since it resists all of Scizor's moves and can hit all your team neutrally... and Zapdos won't stand up to a +1 Rain boosted Waterfall. Just something to keep in mind.
 

dice

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How is he weak to volt turn when zapdos is one of the best checks to it
 
Change Zapdos' EVs back to 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe because I haven't run into any trouble with VoltTurn teams with running that set.
 
Updated my threats list with Breloom. With a BU under his belt he can be very intimidating and I need some help knowing how I should counter that.
 
Replacing Iron Head with Zen Headbut could be solution with the least changes but you'd get lower flinch chance and would be totally walled by ghost types.

But in all honesty Zapdos should be able to take care of him resisting both his stabs and has both HP ice and heatwave depending on weather. Bulk up doesn't help him against those and he can't run sub,bulk up and spore. He probably doesn't have sub. You have a high chance of OHKO with HP Ice.
 
Crazy idea: why don't you try Metal Sound over Heatwave on Zapdos? You will not abuse anymore the sun ok, but you will be a big problem for special defensive wall instead ^^
Let me know if you try it...
 
Replacing Iron Head with Zen Headbut could be solution with the least changes but you'd get lower flinch chance and would be totally walled by ghost types.

But in all honesty Zapdos should be able to take care of him resisting both his stabs and has both HP ice and heatwave depending on weather. Bulk up doesn't help him against those and he can't run sub,bulk up and spore. He probably doesn't have sub. You have a high chance of OHKO with HP Ice.
He does usually, but I almost always come across the SubPunch set that just destroys my team besides Zapdos and Scizor who can't continuously take hits.
Crazy idea: why don't you try Metal Sound over Heatwave on Zapdos? You will not abuse anymore the sun ok, but you will be a big problem for special defensive wall instead ^^
Let me know if you try it...
I'll try it, but Scizors and Ferrothorns are much more important to take out then getting my special defensive wall and then Ferro can wall me.
 
Don't forget that if you are under rain, Thunder its quite the same as HeatWave on scizor, and for Ferro, well under rain its a big problem also with heav wave!
 

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