Torrential Downpour - The Resurgence of Rain

No, it has 109 BS Speed so it isn't faster than Raichu or Tapu Koko.
Araquanid can tank 2 Freeze Dry and Ferrothorn still OHKO him.
Well, it counters the Swfit Swimmers in 1v1 at least, indeed.
But if Ninetails switches in, it has to tank something. That's what I meant, talking about being faster was irrelevant of course.

By the way, if the two leads are Pelipper and Ninetails, what is the weather ?
 
Tbf it does get Aqua Jet. And relax, I wasn't claiming it to be Rain's lord and saviour.
Beartic has its uses since it's a swimmer that can handle grasses and dragons, last time I did the calcs (too lazy to pull them up) it also one-shots common keldeo and Heatran builds with play rough and superpower respectively. Beartic's issue is opportunity cost. Even with the attack buff, swift swimmers with water STAB overpower him with rain active and don't have to worry about scarfers. I think he has a niche in handling what other swift swimmers struggle with, but again you really gotta work to fit him in.
 
Man is Hail vs. Rain actually going to be a thing in the new meta? Is this real life?
Still building on Volcarona Hail, yes, that's going to be a thing, since: 8 turns Aurora Veil + Magic Bounce (which is an easier switch in, since: Aurora Veil) for keeping Defog out of the way is enough for hyper offense to be truly threatening, you can also go Tapu Fini, because 8 turns Aurora Veil + Status Immunity if you win the terrain war (which you can focus on, since Hail is only necessary for Aurora Veil) is going to be insane; also semi-offensive Fini does a nice job of countering all the water neutrals in rain.
 
Still building on Volcarona Hail, yes, that's going to be a thing, since: 8 turns Aurora Veil + Magic Bounce for keeping Defog out of the way is enough for hyper offense to be truly threatening, you can also go Tapu Fini, because 8 turns Aurora Veil + Status Immunity if you win the terrain war is going to be insane; also semi-offensive Fini does a nice job of countering all the water neutrals in rain.
I loves me some Volcarona so that's good. I was thinking Fini, Lele, and Bulu could all be reasonable choices on a Ninetales team but if you're using the firey moth Fini probably is best. If you go with some Slush Rush mons then you might want Lele to keep bullet punches at bay. Bulu could do well on a more balanced not hyper offensive team.

By the way, if the two leads are Pelipper and Ninetails, what is the weather ?
Rain. The slower one wins the weather war in that case.
 
Beartic has its uses since it's a swimmer that can handle grasses and dragons, last time I did the calcs (too lazy to pull them up) it also one-shots common keldeo and Heatran builds with play rough and superpower respectively. Beartic's issue is opportunity cost. Even with the attack buff, swift swimmers with water STAB overpower him with rain active and don't have to worry about scarfers. I think he has a niche in handling what other swift swimmers struggle with, but again you really gotta work to fit him in.
Yup. That's all I was saying, potentially has a place.

No, it has 109 BS Speed so it isn't faster than Raichu or Tapu Koko.
Araquanid can tank 2 Freeze Dry and Ferrothorn still OHKO him.
Well, it counters the Swfit Swimmers in 1v1 at least, indeed.
But if Ninetails switches in, it has to tank something. That's what I meant, talking about being faster was irrelevant of course.

By the way, if the two leads are Pelipper and Ninetails, what is the weather ?
The slowest 'mon's ability will activate last so most likely Pelipper.

However, back in Gen V, Ninetales sometimes used to run Sunny Day because it was the fastest weather setter. Usually used when predicting an opposing weather setter would switch in. So they'd set up Rain/Sand then you'd immediately set up Sun again.

I could see a similar situation happening again with Ninetales-A and Hail. Especially because, if they don't lead with their weather setter, they can switch in as you try and set up Aurora Veil and remove Hail so Aurora Veil will fail. Using Hail on the predicted switch will prevent that happening unless they run double Drizzle.
 

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Littlelucario's Pre-Sun/Moon Rain Overview

The Setters

Pelipper is going to be the main Rain setter this gen due to its ability to automatically induce rain with its newfound Drizzle Ability in conjunction with the other tools that it has. Pelipper is currently the only Weather setter with a pivoting move, which is huge for rain since it can U-turn out as checks for it try to get in your rain sweepers/wallbreakers. Additionally, Pelipper is the only weather setter bar Hippowdon that gets reliable recovery, which is really good when coupled with its above average bulk. In addition to having the tools to stay healthy throughout the match and get in your pivots, Pelipper can fire off STAB Hurricanes that have perfect accuracy under rain and rain boosted STAB Scalds to wear away at the opposing team for your sweepers to dominate and is overall very solid as a rain setter.

Politoed is mainly going to be used as a secondary setter for Rain teams or a setter for Ran teams that have several Flying-types and therefore need a fix to their defensive synergy issues. While Politoed doesn't have all the tools that Pelipper has, it has solid utility options in encore and Hypnosis that can separate itself from Pelipper in situational scenarios and can be a valuable secondary setter for teams that have a difficult time solely relying on Pelipper to keep rain up.

Klefki is the last potential rain setter that I'm going to cover here since imo any other rain setters are going to be mediocre at setting rain or just plain bad otherwise lol. Klefki's excellent defensive typing lets it switch into a myriad of threats and simultaneously get many chances to set up rain. Aside from setting up rain, Klefki can also spread paralysis so that your team can be effective outside of rain and set up spikes to wear away at your opposing team as your rain sweepers force switches, which can be helpful vs team with Pokemon like Gastrodon and Ferrothorn that like to pivot into rain sweepers.

The Swift Swimmers

Kingdra has always been the best Swift Swimmer on rain and while the introduction of Mantine in conjunction with Mega Swampert's ability to get SS on its mega turn, Kingdra will still be a staple on rain this generation. It's super powerful attacks coming off of Choice Specs, its Water-type attacks being boosted by both rain and STAB, make it a super difficult Pokemon for offense to deal with, considering that it outspeeds every relevant Pokemon under the rain without even having to run a +speed nature, and it gets a new toy to work with being Z Move Splash that can let it function as a physical attacker to surprisue people that play you assuming you're a Choice Specs set and sack everything except for their special wall. Aside from Z Splash and Choice Specs, Kingdra also has the potential to run a mixed attacking set with Waterfall to muscle past Chansey, a Rain Sweeper version of CritDra, and a Dragon Dance set for general sweeping, making it super versatile as a Swift Swim user and it will probably maintain its status as the main Swift Swim user on rain teams.

Mega Swampert is another great rain sweeper due to its high attack stat and amazing bulk. Mega Swampert gains Swift Swim immediately upon mega evolution due to the mechanic changes in Sun and Moon, making it significantly more effective than before because you weren't forced to only Mega in situations vs mons that couldn't hurt you. Mega Swampert's utility aside from being a general Swift Swimmer is that it can function as an electric stop for rain, which is even more important than it was before since the main rain setter is 4x weak to electric. Swampert can spam rain-boosted STAB Waterfalls and STAB Earthquakes to to really solid damage to pretty much the entire metagame. Not only that, but it has several coverage moves to hit Pokemon that would otherwise wall it and Stealth Rock for Rain Teams desperately seeking role compression.

Due to the newly buffed Mantine, rain teams will most certainly want the option to use a Swift Swimmer that can break through it, and that's where Kabutops and Omastar come into play. Kabutops attacks from the physical end and can Rapid Spin away hazards for teammates while also being able to run SD to become a terrifying wallbreraker that can decimate virtually any team under rain after getting a boost. Omastar is a very strong special attacker that can either run a Choice Specs set similar to Kingdra to generally wallbreak with its solid special attack stat or run a Shell Smash set to become an insane threat to face and a potentially great cleaner. Obviously the two SS users mentioned before these two are better, but these are more than worth considering if you find your team Mantine weak. Ludicolo is another option as a Swift Swim user with Grass-type STAB moves to hurt bulky waters, but Specs Draco from Kingdra does more than enough to break them.

Will add general abusers section later...​
 
I've been attempting to put together a pre-bank rain/electric terrain team. Work in progress, critique/suggestions welcome:

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- U-turn
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Roost

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Dragon Dance

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def/ 252 SpD / 4 HP
Bold/Calm/Impish/Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss
- Soft Boiled

Tapu Koko @ ???
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Naive Nature
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Nature's Madness
- Brave Bird

Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Thunder
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- ???

Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpD / 252 HP / 4 SpA
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- ???
 
Been following this thread closely, Pelipper and Tapu Koko will mean exciting times for Rain!

The biggest thing I want to say is that one of the most significant buffs to Mega-Swampert is Protect -> Superpower/Low Kick to hit Ferrothorn and the like hard, but I'm worried about the potential loss of Swampertite until it's either found in-game or there is an event for it. Manectite also seems to be missing. Until then, one of the better Rain Megas might be Mega-Scizor who benefits from its only Fire weakness weakened in Rain and has access to U-Turn if you want to build around Rain VoltTurn with Pelipper + Tapu Koko. Also, there seems to be a lack of great Swift Swimmers pre-Pokebank.

I believe that a Pelipper/Ferrothorn/Tapu Koko core will be what defines most Rain teams, adding Swift Swimmers (Mega-Swampert, Kingdra, Ludicolo) and answers to anti-Rain Pokemon (Gastrodon, Mantine, Alolan-Ninetales) to complete teams.
 
Just gonna drop some sample teams; depending on which mons the QR bonuses can spawn, some of these might be pre-bank:
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Megahorn
- Zen Headbutt

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

Swampert (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch

Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
Probably the most offensive thing I'm going to make ever. The gist of this team is to use Thunder / HP Ice Koko + CB Bulu to smack down defensive cores and set things up for a Swampert sweep. Toxicroak is there as a means of punishing Keldeo (Waters in general) and slower Tapus (Modest Lele / all Bulu) while allowing this team to retain all of its offensive presence; Black Sludge > LO so it can tank Secret Swords better.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul Hear
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Megahorn
- Zen Headbutt

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 224 HP / 200 SpA / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Recover

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn
Similar premise as the first team, but the two wallbreakers have better synergy, so it's a little easier to tag team with them. Latios and Scizor defend this team from imposing Waters and Dragons, respectively, while Seismitoad helps with most Electrics (and functions as a reasonably consistent wincon). In a short, sweet sentence, this team sacrifices a good amount of power for much better defensive potential.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Roost
- Defog
- Heat Wave

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 224 HP / 200 SpA / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 def
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Horn Leech
- Sleep Talk
Team: Weak to Cham. Basically ditches wallbreakers for walls, but retains enough speed and power to keep counterplay options open.

--------

So, these are just three of many teams, but the mon I'm most attracted to for these teams seems to be Tapu Bulu. Maybe I'm just trippin, but it's really comforting to have a means of making Keldeo, Lando-T, TTar, Lati@s, and most Electrics think twice about haphazardly spamming their STAB. Some mons like Zor and Nattorei can switch in endlessly under rain, but Bulu can actually mow down conventional checks without overextending. In any case, while rain won't be living up to its BW2 brokenness, it's going to be dynamic enough to be fun to mess with in this gen--I can't wait n_n
 
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Just gonna drop some sample teams; depending on which mons the QR bonuses can spawn, some of these might be pre-bank:
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Megahorn
- Zen Headbutt

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

Swampert (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch

Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
Probably the most offensive thing I'm going to make ever. The gist of this team is to use Thunder / HP Ice Koko + CB Bulu to smack down defensive cores and set things up for a Swampert sweep. Toxicroak is there as a means of punishing Keldeo (Waters in general) and slower Tapus (Modest Lele / all Bulu) while allowing this team to retain all of its offensive presence; Black Sludge > LO so it can tank Secret Swords better.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Magearna @ Choice Specs
Ability: Soul Hear
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Megahorn
- Zen Headbutt

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 224 HP / 200 SpA / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

Latios @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Recover

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn
Similar premise as the first team, but the two wallbreakers have better synergy, so it's a little easier to tag team with them. Latios and Scizor defend this team from imposing Waters and Dragons, respectively, while Seismitoad helps with most Electrics (and functions as a reasonably consistent wincon). In a short, sweet sentence, this team sacrifices a good amount of power for much better defensive potential.

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-turn

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Roost
- Defog
- Heat Wave

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 224 HP / 200 SpA / 84 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 def
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Horn Leech
- Sleep Talk
Team: Weak to Cham. Basically ditches wallbreakers for walls, but retains enough speed and power to keep counterplay options open.

--------

So, these are just three of many teams, but the mon I'm most attracted to for these teams seems to be Tapu Bulu. Maybe I'm just trippin, but it's really comforting to have a means of making Keldeo, Lando-T, TTar, Lati@s, and most Electrics think twice about haphazardly spamming their STAB. Some mons like Zor and Nattorei can switch in endlessly under rain, but Bulu can actually mow down conventional checks without overextending. In any case, while rain won't be living up to its BW2 brokenness, it's going to be dynamic enough to be fun to mess with in this gen--I can't wait n_n
What about a core of Something like Magearna, and Kingdra
 
we gen 5 now bois

They won't dominate near as much, but all the old Gen 5 techs remain valid, just less powerful. As somebody who fell out with the Gen6 meta as it wore on, seeing something familiar is really whats luring me back in

even if i ran Sun in gen 5, because fuck whats popular, sun was more fun
Sun is even more usable now that talon has been nerfed to shit. Just imagine all the crazy shit you'll see come january when ORAS mons are thrown into the fray.
 
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Chesnaught yet, it was my favourite Ferro check when I ran Rain in 6th gen

Just gonna drop some sample teams; depending on which mons the QR bonuses can spawn, some of these might be pre-bank:
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Roost
- U-turn

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Superpower
- Megahorn
- Zen Headbutt

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

Swampert (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch

Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Defog
Sorry for nitpicking, but shouldn't the team be called "Double Tapu" and not "Double Koko"?
 
Blunder just leaked that the OU council is putting genesect back into the OU pool via twitter, which in my opinion is a huge asset for rain. Thoughts?
 
Blunder just leaked that the OU council is putting genesect back into the OU pool via twitter, which in my opinion is a huge asset for rain. Thoughts?
Well, it is not surprising, right? I mean, unless its name is Kyurem (or maybe Hoopa-Unbound) or it is a Mega Evolution, everything below 660 BST always got a chance in OU when the generation begins.
 
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Blunder just leaked that the OU council is putting genesect back into the OU pool via twitter, which in my opinion is a huge asset for rain. Thoughts?
It got Supect Tested last gen, instead of being quick banned

iirc, everything suspect tested comes back to OU at the beggining
Everything quickbanned last gen stays in the initial banlist
 
It's been pointed out in other threads how much Ninetales-A hurts rain, thanks to Freeze-Dry. Pelipper, Mega Swampert, Ludicolo, Kingdra and Seismitoad all take x4 damage from it. So non-Water-type Ice resists will have to be considered.

This helps out Beartic, somewhat, since it's a Swift Swimmer that's not fucked by Freeze-Dry. Plus it had its attack stat boosted this gen. Could end up being well worth a team slot.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't swift swim changed to slush rush this gen?
 
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't swift swim changed to slush rush this gen?
No, Beartic just gained Slush Rush as it's second main ability. Swift Swim is still its hidden ability.

It got Supect Tested last gen, instead of being quick banned

iirc, everything suspect tested comes back to OU at the beggining
Everything quickbanned last gen stays in the initial banlist
Was Blaziken quick-banned or suspect tested, do you know?
 

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