SS OU Tox, Ferro and Chansey core stall

[Stall is boring]

Hello! this is my Very First Rmt and, My First team is a stall team so don't judge. let us start with the first pokemon.


IRON DISC (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock / spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Spikes can be extremely useful for pressuring grounded foes, though Stealth Rock can be run instead of Spikes if Ferrothorn's team can't afford to fit the move anywhere else. Leech Seed provides Ferrothorn with a way to restore HP and is particularly helpful for wearing down Pokemon such as Heatran. Gyro Ball allows Ferrothorn to handle fast Pokemon like Tornadus-T and Tapu Lele. Power Whip is the main STAB move. Switch in Ferrothorn on favorable circumstances, like when against weaker Pokemon such as Toxapex or Pokemon that its walls such as Tapu Koko. Use the early turns with Ferrothorn to set up entry hazards, because this pressures the opponent's entire team and in some cases forces in hazard removers.

MEGA FAT BOI (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Heal Bell

Chansey's monstrous HP and high Special Defense stats make it the bulkiest special wall in the tier, boasting the ability to reliably handle the majority of the special attackers that the OU tier has to offer. To further accentuate its defensive prowess, Chansey has access to a plethora of viable utility moves such as Stealth Rock, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Heal Bell, which makes it a must on almost all stall teams. Toxic cripples and wears down Pokemon that try to use Chansey as setup fodder or can outlast its Seismic Toss. Chansey can opt to run Heal Bell. Providing cleric support to its teammates. This option is most commonly found on stall teams without Heal Bell Clefable. Soft boiled will keep Chansey health to stall out for its toxic.

TOXIC BLANKET (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic

Toxapex is one of the best defensive Pokemon in the OU metagame thanks to a combination of excellent natural bulk, multiple methods of recovery, and a key move in Haze, making it a great fit on stall and balance teams alike. Haze prevents Toxapex from being setup fodder for several Pokemon, eliminating boosts from the likes of Volcarona, non-Taunt Gyarados. Toxic can be run to immediately cripple Pokemon such as Gastrodon, Rotom-W, Zapdos. Toxapex is fairly straightforward to use—switch it in on Pokemon that its walls, and respond by getting off potential burns with Scald or using it as an opportunity to set up a layer of Toxic Spikes. Always try to keep Toxapex at a good amount of health by using Recover or pivoting around with Regenerator, as it needs to be as healthy as possible to effectively check the Pokemon it's supposed to. When pinned up against setup sweepers, the best way to handle them is to use Haze followed by using Recover, should Toxapex get low on HP, and whittling the foe with either Scald or Toxic.

ROBOT BIRD (Corviknight) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 168 SpD / 80 Spe
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Bulk Up
- Roost
- Brave Bird

Corviknight is my go-to if I come across a pokemon that my other mons can't check or stall out very well. This build allows Corviknight to come into its own as a simultaneous attacker and defender. When attacking, it's proficient with the STAB-giving Brave Bird. By making it hold Leftovers, restoring its HP every round, and using Roost to recover its HP, Corviknight can hold its ground against physical attackers and use Bulk Up to raise its Attack and Defense, further powering it up as both an attacker and defender.

WHT IS THIS? (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast

Calm Mind bolsters Clefable's Special Attack and Special Defense, making it easier to take down pokemon like Tornadus-T and Zapdos. The maximum investment in HP and Defense allows Clefable to handle the myriad of physical attackers in the tier such as Garchomp and Hawlucha. Clefable is quite straightforward to use: it should mainly be used to check Pokemon like Landorus-T and Hawlucha. Make sure to use Soft-Boiled regularly to keep Clefable healthy enough to check most threats to the rest of the team.

PINK WATER BEAR (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze

Quagsire's ability Unaware coupled with its decent physical bulk, reliable recovery, and fantastic defensive typing allows it to check boosting threats. Scald is mainly used to burn physical attackers such as Cobalion and Scizor. Maximum HP and Defense EVs make Quagsire as physically bulky as possible. Unaware is what gives Quagsire its niche, ignoring boosts and allowing it to counter certain physical attackers. Leftovers are used for passive recovery, allowing Quagsire to avoid the 2HKO from moves such as Life Orb Scizor's Bug Bite after Stealth Rock, and it also reduces the number of times Quagsire has to use Recover. A Relaxed nature is used because Quagsire cares much more about its damage output than its paltry Speed stat.

Importable team https://pokepast.es/960999412ac98ed5

 

[vNatFly]

Hi. Welcome to Smogon. I will admit, I am not the most experienced player but I can help improve your team. Anyway, uh.. yeah.. I'll just get in to it.



Improvements




Gyro Ball ---> Protect

Unfortunately (in my opinion fortunately), Ferrothorn does not get Recover. It's only way of Recovery is Leech Seed... well, and Rest but who wants to let things like Cinderace come in and use you as set up fodder. So, Leech Seed it is. Lets say you swap in to... uh.. Tapu Koko. The best play would be to set up Stealth Rocks but if they are already up you need to start chipping that thing ASAP. No idiot is keeping Tapu Koko in against a Ferrothorn, so you get to Leech Seed something else, like Cinderace, a huge threat to this thing (no but seriously.. Cinderace ruins Ferrothorn NEVER stay in). You get about 12.5% of it's HP, which is good. Then, your opponent most likely clicks Pyro Ball, that is when Protect comes in. You Protect wasting a bit of PP but most importantly that Cinderace is now at 75% HP which is some really nice chip. I know that scenario was very specific, but I was trying to explain the general idea of Protect. Waste your opponent's PP/HP. Of course, you don't need to take it but that is always what I run and has been successful. I might be a bit bias towards Protect, Toxic/Thunder Wave might be better but in my eyes Protect <--- T-Wave/Toxic. Also, your Ferrothorn spread seems a bit.. interesting but I will leave it as is because I do not know what it does. Although, this is what I have been running.

Set

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Haze ---> Earthquake

This just seems flat out stupid in my opinion. Unaware if you are not aware (ha ha, see what I did there?) COMPLETELY ignores those annoying set-up-sweepers and takes those hits with ease. Haze on Quagsire is just dead weight. And, running Earthquake Quagsire lets you hit Steel types like Melmetal and Aegislash (Metal types in general). Here is a sample set from Smogon if you want to use it.

Set

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

--->

I think Clefable is dead weight on this team (correct me if I am wrong). Clefable on stall teams is usually for Heal Bell support and sometimes Stealth Rock, your Chansey has Heal Bell already and your Ferrothorn is carrying Stealth Rocks. Also, your team is weak to Latios and Magearna, well.. and Grass Knot Zeraora but come on.. every team is weak to that LOL. Magearna helps with some of those weaknesses. In my opinion, Magearna is THE best Pokemon in OU right now because it is very versatile and it has great all around stats, but lacks speed which you can boost with Shift Gear. So, yeah.. I would definitely reccomend the Clefable ---> Magearna switch. Also, I find it funny how you say Clefable is a "check" to Landorus-T when it can't hit it for super effective and Landorus-T straight up 0hko's at +2 LOL... anyway, next suggestion.

Set

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 HP
Calm Nature
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss

Bulk Up ---> U-turn

This is just me, but I really do dislike having Bulk Up on Corviknight. U-turn is the 100% way to go and to be honest probably the move you will have to click the most. There are lots of common swap ins to this thing that will make Corviknight HAVE to swap out. You can U-turn out, examples when that move would be needed is incoming Cinderace, Zeraora, Rotom-H and more. Bulk Up Corviknight doesn't really make that much sense to run on a Stall team.



I probably didn't help you THAT much but I hope you will take these suggestions if not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here is the new and improved team: https://pokepast.es/e36262c125fbc44a
Also, I find some of these spreads a little bit odd.. but I will not change them because I do not know what they do. I would reccomend switching to the Sample Smogon sets.

 

[Stall is boring]

the clef has saved my butt countless times. I usually start with it as my lead and get some much-needed chip to most threats for the rest of the team and have taken 1-3 pokemon out at the start making it harder for the opponent to break my stall down.

 

[Stall is boring]

haze on Quagsire has saved my butt as well

 

[Stall is boring]

i agree with protect

 

[musiquepkmn]

Hi. Welcome to Smogon. I will admit, I am not the most experienced player but I can help improve your team. Anyway, uh.. yeah.. I'll just get in to it.



Improvements




Gyro Ball ---> Protect

Unfortunately (in my opinion fortunately), Ferrothorn does not get Recover. It's only way of Recovery is Leech Seed... well, and Rest but who wants to let things like Cinderace come in and use you as set up fodder. So, Leech Seed it is. Lets say you swap in to... uh.. Tapu Koko. The best play would be to set up Stealth Rocks but if they are already up you need to start chipping that thing ASAP. No idiot is keeping Tapu Koko in against a Ferrothorn, so you get to Leech Seed something else, like Cinderace, a huge threat to this thing (no but seriously.. Cinderace ruins Ferrothorn NEVER stay in). You get about 12.5% of it's HP, which is good. Then, your opponent most likely clicks Pyro Ball, that is when Protect comes in. You Protect wasting a bit of PP but most importantly that Cinderace is now at 75% HP which is some really nice chip. I know that scenario was very specific, but I was trying to explain the general idea of Protect. Waste your opponent's PP/HP. Of course, you don't need to take it but that is always what I run and has been successful. I might be a bit bias towards Protect, Toxic/Thunder Wave might be better but in my eyes Protect <--- T-Wave/Toxic. Also, your Ferrothorn spread seems a bit.. interesting but I will leave it as is because I do not know what it does. Although, this is what I have been running.

Set

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Haze ---> Earthquake

This just seems flat out stupid in my opinion. Unaware if you are not aware (ha ha, see what I did there?) COMPLETELY ignores those annoying set-up-sweepers and takes those hits with ease. Haze on Quagsire is just dead weight. And, running Earthquake Quagsire lets you hit Steel types like Melmetal and Aegislash (Metal types in general). Here is a sample set from Smogon if you want to use it.

Set

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

--->

I think Clefable is dead weight on this team (correct me if I am wrong). Clefable on stall teams is usually for Heal Bell support and sometimes Stealth Rock, your Chansey has Heal Bell already and your Ferrothorn is carrying Stealth Rocks. Also, your team is weak to Latios and Magearna, well.. and Grass Knot Zeraora but come on.. every team is weak to that LOL. Magearna helps with some of those weaknesses. In my opinion, Magearna is THE best Pokemon in OU right now because it is very versatile and it has great all around stats, but lacks speed which you can boost with Shift Gear. So, yeah.. I would definitely reccomend the Clefable ---> Magearna switch. Also, I find it funny how you say Clefable is a "check" to Landorus-T when it can't hit it for super effective and Landorus-T straight up 0hko's at +2 LOL... anyway, next suggestion.

Set

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 HP
Calm Nature
- Shift Gear
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Draining Kiss

Bulk Up ---> U-turn

This is just me, but I really do dislike having Bulk Up on Corviknight. U-turn is the 100% way to go and to be honest probably the move you will have to click the most. There are lots of common swap ins to this thing that will make Corviknight HAVE to swap out. You can U-turn out, examples when that move would be needed is incoming Cinderace, Zeraora, Rotom-H and more. Bulk Up Corviknight doesn't really make that much sense to run on a Stall team.



I probably didn't help you THAT much but I hope you will take these suggestions if not, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Here is the new and improved team: https://pokepast.es/e36262c125fbc44a
Also, I find some of these spreads a little bit odd.. but I will not change them because I do not know what they do. I would reccomend switching to the Sample Smogon sets.

Protect on Ferrothorn should be Knock Off to make its spikes more effective (Protect isn't too good compared to KNock's utility), Toxic on Quag should be changed to Earthquake and keep Haze, and Magearna should be a Choice Specs set, since the one-time use of set-up magearna doesn't really conform as well to the long style of stall. Alternatively, you could go for the rarer Calm Mind + Pain Split set with Lefties, but Specs Mag puts in a lot of work too.

And finally, if you agree to change BU on corv to U-turn, get rid of the defense EVs and put it into defense. Chansey and Ferrothorn already do great work as spdef walls, so you really want to have Bold Corv to deal with stuff like SD LO Garchomp, Kartana, and even SD variants of Rillaboom that could give this team trouble otherwise. The standard spread here is fine.

 

[Contrary Servine]

I think musiquepkmn and vNatFly have covered most of it, but I‘d also say swap Chansey out for Blissey. Blissey is just a better Chansey in this gen due to HDB protecting it from hazard chip and the prevalence of Knock Off which can cripple Chansey by removing eviolite.

 

[VTaxi]

I am not much of an experienced team rater, nor do I like or play stall, but I have some improvements for your team.

Like what the posts above say,


Gyro Ball ---> Protect
Protect is an essential move to Ferrothorn, just like Earthquake is to most Ground types. It gives Ferro an extra turn of recovery by both Leech Seed and Leftovers.
Protect is also important to scout for Fire and Fighting type moves from Pokemon like Garchomp, who may occasionally run Fire Fang.
Protect also provides more "stall" as it gives you a free turn of wasting PP and making your opponent mad.


Haze ---> Earthquake
In my opinion, it is not bad to have Haze on Quagsire, as it can remove the stats of set-up sweepers like Garchomp, so other mons can come in without any problems. The problem is that you only 4 move slots.
This is a problem of lots of mons, including Corv and Chomp. Earthquake is teh better option as it deals significant damage to Electric and Steel types such as Magnezone, Regieleki, and Magearna.



--->

I totally agree. Mage at the moment outclasses Clef for Calm Mind sweeping. Mage has the access to Shift Gear, helping it stockpile even more.



Bulk Up ---> U-turn
In my opinion it should be:
Bulk Up ---> Taunt
It's just my opinion, but I always have Taunt on my Corv sets as a Defensive check to other mons like Ferrothorn (no Leech Seed for him).

That's what I think :D
Welcome to Smogon!

 

[Mirbro]

Hey Pokémaniac! As a stall lover, I would like to share my thoughts on your team and just help a bit. I think some of the main issus have been previously commented by other users but I will repeat them if necessary to emphasize. I will divide this post in different parts to make it easier to understand.


Pros

Your team features a stall team with some good Pokémon such as Chansey, Quagsire, Corviknight and Toxapex. However, you have other Pokémon not as common as the ones I just mentioned: Ferrothorn and Magic Guard Clefable as your main wincon. In general terms and in theory, this team would seem to work but there are some points which will make your team to improve.


Checklist

In order to build a stall team in any tier, I normally do a checklist of things to take into account and not forget them. This list normally compiles several things like hazard settling down and control, how to deal with setting up Pokémon, main wall- and stallbreakers and so on. Ostensibly, you will always find a flaw in your team but it is OK as you will be aware of that and play accordingly.

SS OU Checklist

• Hazards:
• Hazard control:
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks:
• Magearna check:
• Cinderace check:
• Heatran check:
• Tapu Lele check:
• Kartana check:
• Dracozolt check:
• Crawdaunt check:
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon:
• Future Sight Pokémon:
• Wincons:
• Blissey/Chansey:

As you will see,, there are plenty of things you need to take into account. Now I will post the checklist with your team and see the main flaws.

SS OU Checklist featuring your team

• Hazards: Ferrothorn
• Hazard control: Corviknight
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: NA (a bit Toxapex)
• Magearna check: Chansey and Ferrothorn for Choice Specs but no one for CM set
• Cinderace check: NA (Toxapex can be really worn down by Zen Headbutt Cinderace if hazards are settled down)
• Heatran check: NA (Chansey and Toxapex can help a bit but they will go down before
• Tapu Lele check: Corviknight and Ferrothorn
• Kartana check: NA
• Dracozolt check: NA (you can go Quagsire but it is a 2HKO if it clicks Draco Meteor; Ferrothorn is 2HKO by Fire Blast)
• Crawdaunt check: Toxapex (but 2HKO if hazards are settled down)
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon: Quagsire (with Haze)
• Future Sight Pokémon check: NA (Corviknight without Sub is not an answer)
• Shed Shell for Magnetone trapping: No and there are two steel type Pokémon
• Wincons: Magic Guard CM Clefable
• Blissey/Chansey: Chansey

Cons

According to the checklist, Magic Guard Clefable is really good but, imo, for a stall team like that, Magearna can do its job at best. As it has been already commented CM with Pain Split and Leftovers is the set I would go. Moreover, U-turners/Volt-Switchers are really annoying for your team as you do not have any way to pressure them (like Rocky Helmet) and they will gain momentum during the entire game. Some EVs spreads are a bit weird for me and I think they can be optimized a bit by empirical testing. Future Sight based teams will have an easy-go to pressure your switch in Pokémon. Good wallbreakers such as Crawdaunt and Dracozolt, that are pretty common during laddering, can destroy your team doing a 2HKO to your main checks. Heatran can set up rocks and weaken either Toxapex or Chansey. Finally, Kartana is amazingly scary.

Improvements

I will try to suggest some changes to improve your team without changing a lot. Be aware that some flaws will be present but, it is up to you which of them you want to risk. Click sprites to import your new team :].

​

SS OU Checklist improved team

• Hazards: Ferrothorn + Chansey
• Hazard control: Corviknight + Salamence
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: Rocky Helmet Toxapex
• Magearna check: Chansey for Choice Specs set and CM Clefable for CM Magearna set.
• Cinderace check: Toxapex with Black Sludge, Rocky Helmet, Baneful Bunker can resist a bit more.
• Heatran check: Chansey + Salamence (EQ)
• Tapu Lele check: Corviknight and Chansey
• Kartana check: Salamence and a bit Ferrothorn
• Dracozolt check: NA (you can go Quagsire but it is a 2HKO if it clicks Draco Meteor; Ferrothorn is 2HKO by Fire Blast)
• Crawdaunt check: Toxapex helps with Baneful Banker and Ferrothorn too
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon: Clefable
• Future Sight Pokémon check: NA (although Corvi and Ferro help according to the main wallbreaker in front)
• Shed Shell for Magnetone trapping: No and there are two steel type Pokémon
• Wincons: Unaware Clefable
• Blissey/Chansey: Chansey (good hazard control, no necessary Blissey and it is better for Heatran)

So, I think a couple of things are fixed but Dracozolt, Future Sight-based teams and Magnetone-trapping remain as big issues. I have optimized HP EVs to lower Stealth Rock damage when encessary. Explanation of changes:

• SpDef --> PhysicalDef

With Corviknight as a spdef steel wall you have what you need against Tapu Lele and Psyshock users. However, it can use Gyro Ball to knock-out them if necessary. I run Spikes over Stealth Rock as Chansey can settle down them with some ease and you can have both hazards in the same team. KOff is useful to wear down opponent's Pokémon and to deal some damage.

• Heal Bell --> Stealth Rock

I think Chansey has a good time to set up rocks and, with naturel cure, it is not the best user for Heal Bell. Other Pokémon mate can do this Cleric job.

• Haze/Toxic --> Baneful Banker/KOff/Toxic

Toxapex is a really good Pokémon to check Cinderace and Crawdaunt. With Baneful Bunker you can put a poison on them and scout what they want to do. Be careful with Zen Headbutt Cinderace sets though. Rocky Helmet helps a ton against U-Turners in general and KOff is really helpful against Heatran to get rid of its Leftovers if necessary. You can also run here Toxic though.

• Bulk Up --> U-turn

This is a good Pokémon to gain some momentum and it can deal with no CM Tapu Lele sets. Otherwise you need to be really careful or you could run Iron Head over U-Turn.

• Magic Guard --> Unaware

I know that maybe you will not like this change. But really, it is an amazing one as it is a good cleric and a good Magearna check as you can CM in front of it.

• Unaware --> PhysicalDef

Okay, This is a gimmick but in SS UU works. Salamance is your main way to stop Kartana and to defog against physical setters. With Intimidate you will be able to resist a +1 KOff from Kartana and revenge faint it with Flamethrower. EQ is for Heatran as it can deal with it pretty nicely. A really underrated Pokémon tbh.

And that's it, I hope you like my suggestions and you have fun with the team. See ya Pokémaniac !

 

[Stall is boring]

Protect on Ferrothorn should be Knock Off to make its spikes more effective (Protect isn't too good compared to KNock's utility), Toxic on Quag should be changed to Earthquake and keep Haze, and Magearna should be a Choice Specs set, since the one-time use of set-up magearna doesn't really conform as well to the long style of stall. Alternatively, you could go for the rarer Calm Mind + Pain Split set with Lefties, but Specs Mag puts in a lot of work too.

And finally, if you agree to change BU on corv to U-turn, get rid of the defense EVs and put it into defense. Chansey and Ferrothorn already do great work as sp def walls, so you really want to have Bold Corv to deal with stuff like SD LO Garchomp, Kartana, and even SD variants of Rillaboom that could give this team trouble otherwise. The standard spread here is fine.

the sp def EVs is to be able to tank a super-effective hit

 

[vNatFly]

Protect on Ferrothorn should be Knock Off to make its spikes more effective (Protect isn't too good compared to KNock's utility), Toxic on Quag should be changed to Earthquake and keep Haze, and Magearna should be a Choice Specs set, since the one-time use of set-up magearna doesn't really conform as well to the long style of stall. Alternatively, you could go for the rarer Calm Mind + Pain Split set with Lefties, but Specs Mag puts in a lot of work too.

And finally, if you agree to change BU on corv to U-turn, get rid of the defense EVs and put it into defense. Chansey and Ferrothorn already do great work as spdef walls, so you really want to have Bold Corv to deal with stuff like SD LO Garchomp, Kartana, and even SD variants of Rillaboom that could give this team trouble otherwise. The standard spread here is fine.

Yes, I said that I am a bit bias and I like using Protect to screw over people because to be honest, few people are using it. It is unexpected and it makes people rage LMAO. I guess it's just personal preference..? And why would you keep Haze on Quagsire when he has Unaware already? I don't understand that..? And yeah, you are right he should've changed most of the spreads to be honest but I left them alone.

 

[vNatFly]

I think musiquepkmn and vNatFly have covered most of it, but I‘d also say swap Chansey out for Blissey. Blissey is just a better Chansey in this gen due to HDB protecting it from hazard chip and the prevalence of Knock Off which can cripple Chansey by removing eviolite.

Yeah, Hazards are something that can screw over Chansey. Blissey is bulkier on the Physical side aswell, I agree Blissey is a better Chansey to be honest.

 

[vNatFly]

I am not much of an experienced team rater, nor do I like or play stall, but I have some improvements for your team.

Like what the posts above say,


Gyro Ball ---> Protect
Protect is an essential move to Ferrothorn, just like Earthquake is to most Ground types. It gives Ferro an extra turn of recovery by both Leech Seed and Leftovers.
Protect is also important to scout for Fire and Fighting type moves from Pokemon like Garchomp, who may occasionally run Fire Fang.
Protect also provides more "stall" as it gives you a free turn of wasting PP and making your opponent mad.


Haze ---> Earthquake
In my opinion, it is not bad to have Haze on Quagsire, as it can remove the stats of set-up sweepers like Garchomp, so other mons can come in without any problems. The problem is that you only 4 move slots.
This is a problem of lots of mons, including Corv and Chomp. Earthquake is teh better option as it deals significant damage to Electric and Steel types such as Magnezone, Regieleki, and Magearna.



--->

I totally agree. Mage at the moment outclasses Clef for Calm Mind sweeping. Mage has the access to Shift Gear, helping it stockpile even more.



Bulk Up ---> U-turn
In my opinion it should be:
Bulk Up ---> Taunt
It's just my opinion, but I always have Taunt on my Corv sets as a Defensive check to other mons like Ferrothorn (no Leech Seed for him).

That's what I think :D
Welcome to Smogon!

Uhm.. I find it a bit annoying that you copied EXACTLY what I had already said KNOWING that that people have already told him this. My guy, there is no need for that, he already saw this stuff and you could confuse the person who wrote this RMT. Just a heads up, sorry if I was a bit harsh.

 

[musiquepkmn]

• Hazards: Ferrothorn
• Hazard control: Corviknight
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: NA (a bit Toxapex)
• Magearna check: Chansey and Ferrothorn for Choice Specs but no one for CM set
• Cinderace check: NA (Toxapex can be really worn down by Zen Headbutt Cinderace if hazards are settled down)
• Heatran check: NA (Chansey and Toxapex can help a bit but they will go down before
• Tapu Lele check: Corviknight and Ferrothorn
• Kartana check: NA
• Dracozolt check: NA (you can go Quagsire but it is a 2HKO if it clicks Draco Meteor; Ferrothorn is 2HKO by Fire Blast)
• Crawdaunt check: Toxapex (but 2HKO if hazards are settled down)
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon: Quagsire (with Haze)
• Future Sight Pokémon check: NA (Corviknight without Sub is not an answer)
• Shed Shell for Magnetone trapping: No and there are two steel type Pokémon
• Wincons: Magic Guard CM Clefable
• Blissey/Chansey: Chansey

I feel like this is very much not required. Not every team needs an absolutely solid answer to every single imaginable threat out there, even a stall team. Here's what I personally think about every point on your "checklist". Oh, and did I mention how your checklist changed in between the first iteration and the second?

• Hazards:
• Hazard control:
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: mm yes, my favorite Volt Switch blocker, Toxapex. Oh yea, you forgot we had a Quagsire. Looks like your new team doesn't have a ground type either.
• Magearna check: "No checks to CM Magearna" when a potential Haze Pex and EQ Haze Quagsire exists.
• Cinderace check: Do you really think that Toxapex does NOTHING against Cinderace? For crying out loud it's one of the best Cinderace answers that exists. Very few Cinderace run Zen Headbutt, and even then it's not even a 2HKO without hazards, which we can defog away. Oh yeah, we have a WHOLE QUAGSIRE in the back.
• Heatran check: You keep forgetting we have a Quagsire
• Tapu Lele check: Ferro and Corv serve as fine lele checks, as you mention
• Kartana check: If OP does the recommended and removes the speed investment on Corv and puts it into defense, we'll have a perfectly serviceable Kartana check. Especially if OP decides to go with Body Press over U-turn.
• Dracozolt check: If this were the case, then every stall team would run Specially Defensive Hippowdon or Swampert. Heads up. They aren't. Dracozolt isn't even OU, and even then this team has means of playing around it, such as setting spikes to chip it down further and using Quagsire to force it into a position where it has to Draco Meteor.
• Crawdaunt check: Sure, Crawdaunt exists, but I'm pretty sure it gets even less use than Dracozolt. If this again was the case, then every stall team would run a no-item Tangrowth. I don't see every stall team running a no-item Tangrowth. In reality, how stall teams deal with Crawdaunt is that they never let it set up then wear it down with protect and life orb. However, your suggestion of Baneful Bunker could put in work here.
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon: Not always required but we have a quaggy.
• Future Sight Pokémon check: How are we gonna check generic Future sight and their abusers. Protect Mandi? Also not seeing how your newer team fixes this problem since I don't see a Mandi or a Bro
• Shed Shell for Magnetone trapping: Shed Shell Corv could help, which you don't implement on your newer team anyways.
• Wincons: Magic Guard CM Clefable
• Blissey/Chansey: I laughed out loud when I saw this. It's as if Slowking-galar doesn't exist. However, I can see how one could think one of these are mandatory on a stall team.

In general, to me it feels like you are not experienced when it comes to stall, especially in OU. You impose "restrictions" on this team that are completely unrealistic, such as Crawdaunt, Dracozolt, and a "better" check to Cinderace than Quagsire + Toxapex, and forget to even mention Kyurem (which luckily we have a Chansey for). For FOUR SEPARATE POINTS you ENTIRELY DISREGARD Quagsire, and your new team has several flaws, such as lack of a volt-switch blocker. Plus, both of these teams are much too passive, and being able to go on the offensive helps to combat the offenses of lower tier threats to stall teams like Diggersby, Alolan Marowak, and anything else that we can't fit answers to with 6 pokemon. Finally, just because Emvee used Salamence on a stall team doesn't mean it's meta, although here I can see justification for using it.

You even go as far as to reiterate points that previous posters had said, which means you didn't skim over their posts before posting yours.

All in all, I really don't think that a "checklist" should exist, even for stall teams, since many stall teams have different ways of dealing with different threats. In general, some of your proposed edits to the team I missed and now agree with, such as Unaware Clef and SR on Chansey, but others I personally do not feel are very good. For example, in this meta Corviknight is much better at being physical wall than Ferrothorn, due to a ground immunity, fighting neutrality, and better tools to combat physical threats. There's a reason the suggested set for Ferro is Spdef, while the suggested set for Corviknight is Physdef. However, some spdef still should be run on Corv to aid against Tapu Lele, so I can see how one could want to run careful.

 

[musiquepkmn]

Yes, I said that I am a bit bias and I like using Protect to screw over people because to be honest, few people are using it. It is unexpected and it makes people rage LMAO. I guess it's just personal preference..? And why would you keep Haze on Quagsire when he has Unaware already? I don't understand that..? And yeah, you are right he should've changed most of the spreads to be honest but I left them alone.

Haze on Quagsire right now is run for Magearna. Although you already have Unaware and Earthquake, Magearna is often able to break through Quagsire due to Stored Power. Haze eliminates the stat boosts and thus eliminates Stored Power. Many people also like to run Haze on Quagsire in general because it means if the opponent is disrespecting quag and is boosting to +6 in your face, you can haze the boosts away and switch out to something like Ferrothorn to continue to make progress in the match, instead of being stuck because Quag has to stay in.

To elaborate, a common game plan versus a Magearna that you don't know the set of would be to switch in Toxapex first. Specs Volt Switch should only do 60-70%. Against CM or Shift Gear sets, you also only take 60-70% from a Stored Power and can Haze the boosts away. If it's Specs Volt Switch, then you can regen out with Toxapex when they bring in, say, a Rillaboom, and next time they come in you can either make the safe Chansey play or go to Quagsire if you predict Volt Switch. Against CM/setup sets, after the initial Haze with pex, you immediately go to Quagsire. Quagsire is able to easily Haze away stat boosts, which means Stored Power is weak, and Earthquake is a guaranteed 2HKO. In order to 2HKO you, they would have to be Life Orb Focus Blast, but if they are LO Focus Blast they only have a 49% chance to hit twice, so hopefully they miss. If they don't miss, then that means with LO recoil and one Earthquake, the Magearna should be at around 20-30%, which means Chansey can easily live one hit and KO back with Seismic Toss.

Hide

After thinking it over I realized I was not very nice in my above post responding to Mirbro. Looking back, I regret being as aggressive as I was. I don't mean to insult anyone's intellect, nor do I mean to insult anyone's experience, so I am sorry for making it seem like I did. Being that venomous is something I don't normally do, which means that it's even worse when I do it as much as I did above. Again, sorry if anyone was hurt.

 

[Mirbro]

I am gonna respond with a small post to your reply. First of all, I do not understand why you came raging like this when I did not recall you in any of my points. If you want to constructly discuss, change your manners. When I play stall, I normally play looking for all the possible answers I can do against all the meta. Am I not experienced in stall ? Well, I would say yes as I have played mainly stall for the last 2 years on Smogon and I have had plenty of successful teams (check my RMTs below mi signature). But anyway, I suppose you just ragequit, I am sorry for you.

• Hazards:
• Hazard control:
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: It is true that we do not have a Volt-Switch blocker, and I would not use Quagsire as a Volt-Switch blocker as it is heavenly pressured by any special attacker like Magearna and Tapu Koko. At least, you punish U-turners with Rocky Helmet.
• Magearna check: Physical Toxapex Haze does not stop Magearna at the end of the day. It is true that Quagsire exists but it should not run Haze and you will not switch Quag in front of Magearna.
• Cinderace check: I know it is one of the best answers to Cinderace. However, as I said before, with hazards and Zen Headbutt it is a 2HKO, check calcs. With rocky helmet and Baneful bunker it is a better answer. Again, it is true you have Quagsire but still receives big damage of HJK and if hazards then you could risk your Unaware Pokémon. Quagsire is a 2HKO to Cinderace too.
• Heatran check: Quagsire can tank Magma Storm, yes. But it does not stop Heatran setting rocs and it is an easy Toxic click. Quagsire is never a good Heatran responding in a stall team.
• Tapu Lele check:
• Kartana check: Kartana at +2 does a ton to Corviknight and it only recives like 40% HP of damage due to Body Press

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 92 Def Corviknight: 287-339 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

• Dracozolt check: As I said, I love trying to get answers for as many Pokémon as I can. Dracozolt is a good wallbreaker that I have seen pretty commonly in the ladder and in OU tournaments due to twin+sand teams. Beyond that, Draco Meteor is a 2HKO to Quagsire.
• Crawdaunt check: Baneful helps on Cinderace and Crawdaunt. I also use Tangrowth for that and other Pokémon like Volt-Switchers.
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon: As I said you have Quaggy. In any stall team you normally need Pyuku, Shedinja, Quagsire or Clefable. If you do not have any way to control sweepers, then you have a problem with your stall team.
• Future Sight Pokémon check: As I said, there are still some flaws, if you check the checklist of my team, there are still some things that you cannot check. It is a general checklist and you can use it to see where you can lose. In my team I use Protect Slowking or Protect Hydreigon. Yes, they are useful. Remember a team with both slow twins + Tyranitar + Dracozolt. It is totally spammed in tournaments.
• Shed Shell for Magnetone trapping: I do not because I prefer Corvikinight with lefties as Magnezone is a thing this team could lose against too. But anyway, you could run Shed Shell if you want to.
• Wincons: Magic Guard CM Clefable
• Blissey/Chansey: I think you laugh too much, ofc one of these are mandatory in practically 90% of stall teams. Like Pyuku+Audino in ZU and like Chansey in UU and so on. They are so good as special walls, and they help stopping Volcarona, Galar-Moltres with no Taunt, Hydreigon... And as you said, due ot the fact that Chansey/Blissey are in all stall teams, Kyurem does not need to be a problem. You only need to PP stall it slowly switching in and out with Corvi + Chansey.

I love playing stall and I play it passively with a small wincon. That's one way to play stall otherwise is semi-stall which I respect but I do not like as much. I do not understand why did you comment that but OK, feel free to say what you need to outrage yourself. And I used Salamence not due to Emvee, but because in SS UU it is normally used (check Moltracer team btw, really nice and I got reqs with it). Anyway, to cut a long story short, I think you need to recheck your analysis and your way to discuss things. Knowledge and wisdom are only obtained in polite discussions. If you change the way you do that, then, we will be able to exchange ideas. Until then, cya!

Edit: I see you mentioned that you were a bit aggressive and I take your forgiveness. Do not worry, this can happen. And I am sorry if I have been a bit hard with my answer but I felt attacked for nothing when I have been trying to be constructive and pedagogue.

 

[musiquepkmn]

I am gonna respond with a small post to your reply. First of all, I do not understand why you came raging like this when I did not recall you in any of my points. If you want to constructly discuss, change your manners. When I play stall, I normally play looking for all the possible answers I can do against all the meta. Am I not experienced in stall ? Well, I would say yes as I have played mainly stall for the last 2 years on Smogon and I have had plenty of successful teams (check my RMTs below mi signature). But anyway, I suppose you just ragequit, I am sorry for you.

• Hazards:
• Hazard control:
• Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: It is true that we do not have a Volt-Switch blocker, and I would not use Quagsire as a Volt-Switch blocker as it is heavenly pressured by any special attacker like Magearna and Tapu Koko. At least, you punish U-turners with Rocky Helmet.
• Magearna check: Physical Toxapex Haze does not stop Magearna at the end of the day. It is true that Quagsire exists but it should not run Haze and you will not switch Quag in front of Magearna.

• Magearna check: Physical Toxapex Haze does not stop Magearna at the end of the day. It is true that Quagsire exists but it should not run Haze and you will not switch Quag in front of Magearna.

• Cinderace check: I know it is one of the best answers to Cinderace. However, as I said before, with hazards and Zen Headbutt it is a 2HKO, check calcs. With rocky helmet and Baneful bunker it is a better answer. Again, it is true you have Quagsire but still receives big damage of HJK and if hazards then you could risk your Unaware Pokémon. Quagsire is a 2HKO to Cinderace too.
• Heatran check: Quagsire can tank Magma Storm, yes. But it does not stop Heatran setting rocs and it is an easy Toxic click. Quagsire is never a good Heatran responding in a stall team.
• Tapu Lele check:
• Kartana check: Kartana at +2 does a ton to Corviknight and it only recives like 40% HP of damage due to Body Press

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 92 Def Corviknight: 287-339 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

• Dracozolt check: As I said, I love trying to get answers for as many Pokémon as I can. Dracozolt is a good wallbreaker that I have seen pretty commonly in the ladder and in OU tournaments due to twin+sand teams. Beyond that, Draco Meteor is a 2HKO to Quagsire.
• Crawdaunt check: Baneful helps on Cinderace and Crawdaunt. I also use Tangrowth for that and other Pokémon like Volt-Switchers.
• Haze/Phaze/Unaware Pokémon: As I said you have Quaggy. In any stall team you normally need Pyuku, Shedinja, Quagsire or Clefable. If you do not have any way to control sweepers, then you have a problem with your stall team.
• Future Sight Pokémon check: As I said, there are still some flaws, if you check the checklist of my team, there are still some things that you cannot check. It is a general checklist and you can use it to see where you can lose. In my team I use Protect Slowking or Protect Hydreigon. Yes, they are useful. Remember a team with both slow twins + Tyranitar + Dracozolt. It is totally spammed in tournaments.
• Shed Shell for Magnetone trapping: I do not because I prefer Corvikinight with lefties as Magnezone is a thing this team could lose against too. But anyway, you could run Shed Shell if you want to.
• Wincons: Magic Guard CM Clefable
• Blissey/Chansey: I think you laugh too much, ofc one of these are mandatory in practically 90% of stall teams. Like Pyuku+Audino in ZU and like Chansey in UU and so on. They are so good as special walls, and they help stopping Volcarona, Galar-Moltres with no Taunt, Hydreigon... And as you said, due ot the fact that Chansey/Blissey are in all stall teams, Kyurem does not need to be a problem. You only need to PP stall it slowly switching in and out with Corvi + Chansey.

I love playing stall and I play it passively with a small wincon. That's one way to play stall otherwise is semi-stall which I respect but I do not like as much. I do not understand why did you comment that but OK, feel free to say what you need to outrage yourself. And I used Salamence not due to Emvee, but because in SS UU it is normally used (check Moltracer team btw, really nice and I got reqs with it). Anyway, to cut a long story short, I think you need to recheck your analysis and your way to discuss things. Knowledge and wisdom are only obtained in polite discussions. If you change the way you do that, then, we will be able to exchange ideas. Until then, cya!

Edit: I see you mentioned that you were a bit aggressive and I take your forgiveness. Do not worry, this can happen. And I am sorry if I have been a bit hard with my answer but I felt attacked for nothing when I have been trying to be constructive and pedagogue.

I realize how I was too aggressive before, and sorry. That being said, I still have some things to say.

Volt-Switchers/U-turners checks: It is true that we do not have a Volt-Switch blocker, and I would not use Quagsire as a Volt-Switch blocker as it is heavenly pressured by any special attacker like Magearna and Tapu Koko. At least, you punish U-turners with Rocky Helmet.

Volt Switch blockers don't need to be perfect counters to mons with Volt Switch. For example, people often use Scarf landorus-T as their volt-switch blocker, even though it is quite frail. Volt Switch blockers are really only used on a prediction. However, just the existence of a Volt-switch blocker plants a seed of doubt in the opponent's mind, which often leads to them clicking Volt-switch less. Simply having a ground type is powerful.

Magearna check: Physical Toxapex Haze does not stop Magearna at the end of the day. It is true that Quagsire exists but it should not run Haze and you will not switch Quag in front of Magearna.

I mentioned in an above post how the team could come together to try an neutralize setup and specs Magearnas. Of course, there's always a chance it's some very niche set that 6-0s, but that's just Magearna.

Cinderace check: I know it is one of the best answers to Cinderace. However, as I said before, with hazards and Zen Headbutt it is a 2HKO, check calcs. With rocky helmet and Baneful bunker it is a better answer. Again, it is true you have Quagsire but still receives big damage of HJK and if hazards then you could risk your Unaware Pokémon. Quagsire is a 2HKO to Cinderace too.

This is true, I did overstate a bit how effective Toxapex was. Baneful Bunker and Helmet are changes I missed and support either way. However, Zen headbutt still is very rare, and in order to break through our team Cinderace would have to first come in safely with hazards up, then predict pex coming in and click Zen headbutt, which has to hit. Then, they have to go for the 50-50, being Pyro Ball on the Baneful Bunker or High Jump Kick on the Quagsire. Of course, if they get it wrong then they get punished big-time, and if they get it right it is still possible to recover off the damage.

• hazards then you could risk your Unaware Pokémon. Quagsire is a 2HKO to Cinderace too.
• Heatran check: Quagsire can tank Magma Storm, yes. But it does not stop Heatran setting rocs and it is an easy Toxic click. Quagsire is never a good Heatran responding in a stall team.

0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 360-424 (93.2 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Yes, this is also useful for Magearna.
0 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 168-200 (55.8 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• Kartana check: Kartana at +2 does a ton to Corviknight and it only recives like 40% HP of damage due to Body Press

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 92 Def Corviknight: 287-339 (71.7 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

A more realistic calc with a physdef corv would look like this: +2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 244-289 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Still a 2HKO but much more manageable.

Funnily enough, if OP follows your recommendation and chooses Unaware CM Clef, then that is actually our best Kartana answer, since most don't carry smart strike, and even if they do then at full hp Clef has a 93.7% chance to live a +2 LO Smart Strike (due to unaware) and OHKO back with Flamethrower.

Future Sight Pokémon check: As I said, there are still some flaws, if you check the checklist of my team, there are still some things that you cannot check. It is a general checklist and you can use it to see where you can lose. In my team I use Protect Slowking or Protect Hydreigon. Yes, they are useful. Remember a team with both slow twins + Tyranitar + Dracozolt. It is totally spammed in tournaments.

This I missed twice (in my first rate and my response to yours). This team would definitely be much more functional if it had a dark type or a slowtwin.

 

[glava222]

I think others made most of the good points I wanted to make here, but there are two small nitpicks I would like to add:
1. bizzarely neither variation of this team runs both spikes and SR despite having both good spikers and rockers, some run just one or the other, and mirbro's runs 2 SR no spikes. for stall teams SR+spikes if you can keep it up is beyond amazing.
2. just to chip in as someone who does have quite a decent amount of playing stall and who talked to musique about it, zolt is in fact extremely scary for stall teams, even with all the precautions made in game; but that doesn't necessarily mean you should bend over backwards to counter it. The important thing is to note how often it appears, and if there is a slew of zolts running at you you should absolutely try to fit a zolt check. And there absolutely are some bubbles of the ladder where zolt is weirdly common and makes your life miserable. But at the end of the day, unless you are grinding for suspect reqs, ladder is a game of numbers, and if you don't see a lot of zolts, don't zolt proof your team. So in short, it depends, and as a stall player, a great thing to do is make something akin to an 7-8 member team, with a hazard setter,hazard control and like 6 different walls that cover the whole meta(this is mostly possible with 6 different walls), and then plug and play the walls according to what you see the most at your ladder range.

 

[adem]

Really cool team, will test this out as i love stall!

 

[JackPilotF2]

Nice stall