Toxicroak Rain Team RMT
Introduction:
Basic info about myself, why I made the team, etc:
Hey, new forum user here. Been playing Pokemon for a long time, started making competitive Pokemon since B/W 2, and teams for them since X/Y. Spent most of my time looking up teams for Pokemon I enjoyed, trying to make them work, and then beating my friends with Pokemon that they had no chance of beating. Never really got into making whole teams from scratch until around the release of Sun/Moon and every team I would make would be based around a Pokemon I thought was cool or fun to use. I try to make my teams as competitive as possible, but I have also accepted the fact that certain Pokemon are strictly worse then others. Never the less, I still wish to make them work.
The reason I decided to come up with this team is honestly rather simple. Ever since Pearl/Diamond, I've loved the design of Toxicroak. I find him very cool, and when I finally had some free time to make a new home-brewed team again, I thought I'd finally give the toad his time to shine. I looked on Smogon to see what his preferred Format is, and I'll be real with you. I got pretty sad seeing him in Ru/UU. Thus stared my quest to make Toxicroak bearable in the Ou format.
I'll go through my choices with the team, why I made them/the purpose they serve, and possible substitutes I was thinking about making, but for the moment decided against.
The Team:
Throughout my testing in the OU format, I've tried different substitute Pokemon on this team that other people have suggested to me/Some of the Honorable mentions listed below and really thought about what was best for this team. I believe I have found a good balance with Toxicroak/Rain/Other pokemon that like rain, but don't need it to function. I'll leave a pastbin at the bottom for whoever wishes to try both teams, but going forward I would prefer if you would rate/suggest changes to the second team.
First Iteration:
(For Convenience and ease of access, I'm posting the first team build in a pastbin if you want to check it out. Can't seem to get the hide feature to work with the whole team build. Guess hide has a word cap?)
https://pastebin.com/N1MLSBa9
Second Iteration:
After getting into higher levels of Showdown with the first iteration of the team, it became increasingly clear that my team would need a heavy rework. Opposing rain teams would abuse my rain for better gain, bulky steel types were very clunky to deal with, while most walls, given the time boost even once, were enough to stop it in its tracks. I looked through some threats I saw were prevalent, what wasn't, what countered some of the Pokemon I was having problems with, looked at my team to see who I could change or remove, and come up with, what I believe, a pretty solid team that allows Toxicroak to shine as a solid Revenge killer/Priority attacker.
Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Return
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
Toxicroak has not been changed since he is the main mon I wanted to base it around. Nothings changed either, Same EV spread, same moves, same items. The spread works great for Toxicroak and it is fantastic as a revenge killer. If you wish to get the full explanation, please look under the first team.
Pelipper (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Roost
- Hurricane
I have seen the error of my ways, Pelipper is a much better Rain Setter then Politoad could ever be (As much as it pains me to say that, it is true.). Pelipper brings much more to the table then Politoad ever could. It's a solid mon if you go with the Defensive variant for survivability. Scald for Stab/rain boosted damage and a chance to burn. U-turn for pivot potential. Roost for recovery. Hurricane to threaten prominent grass threats that will try and set up on you (Tangrowth). It will never O-ko assault vest Tangrowth, but its some nice damage that can catch them off guard when they expect you to switch.
Scizor-Mega (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost
Mega-Scizor is the same as before. He honestly is the best Pivot on this team. He threatens fairy types with some solid 336 base attack stat, can clear rocks/any entry hazard with ease, and heal up with roost. Very solid mon that this team needed since the beginning. For a more detailed post about moves/etc, please look under the first team.
Tapu Koko @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Ice
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn
Tapu Koko has honestly been a big part of the teams success. I believe it is mainly due to the fact that Thunder is such a strong stab move with electric terrain and the fact that I've dropped Roost for Hidden Power Ice. A common counter to Tapu Koko I saw people use against me were Lando-T and Gliscor, and when I was sweeping said teams that had either of these two with Tapo, they would just wall me and force a switch. Giving the opponent time to recover moment/set up. If I manage to get at least 20-30% chip damage on either of these two before Tapu starts sweeping, they can easily be o-koed with Hidden Power Ice. The rest of the set is the same as last time.
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic
Introduction:
Basic info about myself, why I made the team, etc:
Hey, new forum user here. Been playing Pokemon for a long time, started making competitive Pokemon since B/W 2, and teams for them since X/Y. Spent most of my time looking up teams for Pokemon I enjoyed, trying to make them work, and then beating my friends with Pokemon that they had no chance of beating. Never really got into making whole teams from scratch until around the release of Sun/Moon and every team I would make would be based around a Pokemon I thought was cool or fun to use. I try to make my teams as competitive as possible, but I have also accepted the fact that certain Pokemon are strictly worse then others. Never the less, I still wish to make them work.
The reason I decided to come up with this team is honestly rather simple. Ever since Pearl/Diamond, I've loved the design of Toxicroak. I find him very cool, and when I finally had some free time to make a new home-brewed team again, I thought I'd finally give the toad his time to shine. I looked on Smogon to see what his preferred Format is, and I'll be real with you. I got pretty sad seeing him in Ru/UU. Thus stared my quest to make Toxicroak bearable in the Ou format.
I'll go through my choices with the team, why I made them/the purpose they serve, and possible substitutes I was thinking about making, but for the moment decided against.
The Team:
Throughout my testing in the OU format, I've tried different substitute Pokemon on this team that other people have suggested to me/Some of the Honorable mentions listed below and really thought about what was best for this team. I believe I have found a good balance with Toxicroak/Rain/Other pokemon that like rain, but don't need it to function. I'll leave a pastbin at the bottom for whoever wishes to try both teams, but going forward I would prefer if you would rate/suggest changes to the second team.
First Iteration:
(For Convenience and ease of access, I'm posting the first team build in a pastbin if you want to check it out. Can't seem to get the hide feature to work with the whole team build. Guess hide has a word cap?)
https://pastebin.com/N1MLSBa9
Second Iteration:
After getting into higher levels of Showdown with the first iteration of the team, it became increasingly clear that my team would need a heavy rework. Opposing rain teams would abuse my rain for better gain, bulky steel types were very clunky to deal with, while most walls, given the time boost even once, were enough to stop it in its tracks. I looked through some threats I saw were prevalent, what wasn't, what countered some of the Pokemon I was having problems with, looked at my team to see who I could change or remove, and come up with, what I believe, a pretty solid team that allows Toxicroak to shine as a solid Revenge killer/Priority attacker.
Toxicroak (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Return
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
Toxicroak has not been changed since he is the main mon I wanted to base it around. Nothings changed either, Same EV spread, same moves, same items. The spread works great for Toxicroak and it is fantastic as a revenge killer. If you wish to get the full explanation, please look under the first team.
Pelipper (M) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- U-turn
- Roost
- Hurricane
I have seen the error of my ways, Pelipper is a much better Rain Setter then Politoad could ever be (As much as it pains me to say that, it is true.). Pelipper brings much more to the table then Politoad ever could. It's a solid mon if you go with the Defensive variant for survivability. Scald for Stab/rain boosted damage and a chance to burn. U-turn for pivot potential. Roost for recovery. Hurricane to threaten prominent grass threats that will try and set up on you (Tangrowth). It will never O-ko assault vest Tangrowth, but its some nice damage that can catch them off guard when they expect you to switch.
Scizor-Mega (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost
Mega-Scizor is the same as before. He honestly is the best Pivot on this team. He threatens fairy types with some solid 336 base attack stat, can clear rocks/any entry hazard with ease, and heal up with roost. Very solid mon that this team needed since the beginning. For a more detailed post about moves/etc, please look under the first team.
Tapu Koko @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hidden Power Ice
- Dazzling Gleam
- U-turn
Tapu Koko has honestly been a big part of the teams success. I believe it is mainly due to the fact that Thunder is such a strong stab move with electric terrain and the fact that I've dropped Roost for Hidden Power Ice. A common counter to Tapu Koko I saw people use against me were Lando-T and Gliscor, and when I was sweeping said teams that had either of these two with Tapo, they would just wall me and force a switch. Giving the opponent time to recover moment/set up. If I manage to get at least 20-30% chip damage on either of these two before Tapu starts sweeping, they can easily be o-koed with Hidden Power Ice. The rest of the set is the same as last time.
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic
This is where changes really start to come up. Goodra was doing alright at best, never really carrying the team except in odd stall match ups. I decided there was no point in having a mon that gets countered by fairy types (something very common) and forced to switch when it needs to set up to be good. I looked for other dragon types that might fit into this Fairy/Steel/Dragon core and remembered a very annoying Garchomp build that was very common in the X/Y days. Tank Chomp. Tank Chomp allows me to actually have set up hazards on a team that needs them for some of the weaker sweepers to carry, along with having a strong mon to pivot into if I know I'm about to take a strong Physical hit. I tend to not even care about getting burned on this Garchomp set either. So long as i get rocks up, I will gladly send this thing out against a Rotom-W. Stealth Rock are here for some hazards. Earthquake for coverage against some other common leads. Dragon tail against mons trying to set up/ to deal stealth rock chip damage. Toxic on Bulky walls that some tend to lead with.
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind
With Pelipper taking the role as my main weather setter over Politoad, I had to come up with some reason to even have Politoad on the team... and I couldn't. All he ever did was come in to set up rain and then immediately switch out again to preserve his HP. He was too much of a dead mon I just couldn't justify having. I looked into some other popular rain teams to see what I was missing, and found a very strong wall breaker in Choice Specs Keldeo. His Ev distribution is pretty common among Keldeo builds, nothing really new here besides consistency. Hydro Pump for a powerful stab water move in the rain. Secret Sword to break down Special walls that get in the way of this monster sweeping in the rain. Scald for nice stab rain boosted damage against mons that can usually take a hydro, threaten them with a burn. Icy Wind to threaten mons like Gliscor, Lando, etc.Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind
Honorable Mentions:
These are Pokemon I was thinking might fit into the team better then some of the current members, but have decided against doing so for now:
Literally any pokemon with Sticky web- Sticky Webs would be a MASSIVE boon for this team. It would help Toxicroak and Pelipper actually compete when it comes to outs speeding threats that they could counter if given the speed to do so. Looking at the Pokemon that can learn it however, you don't see many options. I could replace something for a Smeargle that knows it, but what would I replace for something that will probably end up as a suicide lead in almost all cases? I could maybe see replacing Goodra for someone like Araquanid, but then I lose the Fairy/Steel/Dragon core that built in to support the team. Also Araquanid just doesn't seem that good without recovery.
Thundurus-Therian- Really wanted to use Thundurus over Tapu Koko mainly due to Volt Absorb. Anyone trying to use the rain against me by using thunder/other electric moves would then be punished by a switch into Thundurus. The main reason I did not pick him was due to Tapu Kokos typing and speed. Due to Tapu Koko being a Fairy type, he is naturally immune to dragon. Something my team wouldn't have without him. With Speed, he can out speed threats like Mega-Latios and O-ko with Fairium Z, Outspeed and O-ko non scarfed Lando with Hidden Power Ice, etc.
Bulky Water Types- I tried for the life of me to find room for a bulky water type like Tentacruel (Rain Dish with Black Sludge heal WITH Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin, and Knock Off?! Sounds like its all from a dream come true.). I could never make the justification to do so though. I feel like the only way I could is if I remove Pelipper and replace him with one. I really hated the idea of doing so, especially since that would open me up to being swept by Mega Venusaur (Pelipper nearly O-KO's with Hurricane with a 31% chance to do so outright.).
EDIT:
As I woke up today, I realized in my half asleep mind, I never put in stuff like the threats this team faces or what kind of checks other teams can have for this team. I'll list a few here just so you can get an idea of what kind of problems I've been facing.
Bulky Steel Types: Examples of this would be Metagross or Ferrothorn. I do have checks for them, the problem mainly is I just don't have a universal answer to them. Usually it comes up to what kind of typing it is. If its Ferrothorn, I really have to save Keldeo to threaten it out from setting up on me. If Its Metagross, I need predict a meter mash or something, switch into Garchomp, eat it so they take Rough Skin/Rocky Helmet Chip, and hope to return kill with my own Earthquake. This is the Main reason why I wanted Magnazone on the team as a substitute for Tapu Koko. Throw Magnazone to trap steel types, chip away at them with Thunders or other strong base power stab moves, and if rain leaves, maybe have a backup Hidden Power Fire?
Mega-Sableye: The only real answer I have for this monster is Tapu Kokos Fairium Z move: Twinkle Tackle. Against the OU Utility Mega Sableye build ( 248 hp and 252 Special Defense) I have a 44% to O-KO him. Without the z move, that drops down to 42% chance to 2HKO. Needless to say, If tapu dies before I use my Z-move on Sableye, the rest of my team is either walled or burned into none existence.
Other Rain Teams: Other teams that need rain due really well against me due to more prominent rain abusers. (Mega Swampert to name one. Outspeeds everyone I have in rain while not being checked effectively.) I've been thinking a strong Grass type like Serperior or Tangrowth could be used to wall them.
.
(Also forgot to make a pastebin to allow easy transfer over to showdown to try out the team. I'll post a link to one at the bottom of the post.)
In Closing:
If you've made it this far into the RMT, I thank you for giving it a chance. I know Toxicroak isn't really a popular Pokemon, most people forget about him even though I feel he has decent potential to pull out some close games. Any and all criticism is welcome, and suggestions or changes you think would help the team further its goal of helping Toxicroak "Be good". I'll also be trying out different builds as well that people suggest, or trying out different Mons that I have mentioned in the Honorable Mentions section. I'll also be posting replays of some highlight games below if you wish to see how the team plays out. Again, Thank you for reading through my RMT.
Pastbin Link for original team- https://pastebin.com/U0E642tA
Pastbin link for current team- https://pastebin.com/0Q4vC9qa
Replays:
I warn you, you probably will see noob like mistakes. I'm getting back into the swing of things of competitive battling after being out of it for the better half of a year. I'll be adding more replays one I get more matches that can show more of what Toxicroak/the team has to offer.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-830265663
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-830295674
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-830297908
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-830302689
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