Metagame Trademarked

Doesn't the 1 trademark clause prevent that?
Mat Block and King's Shield can be put on separate Pokemon. It's like Parting Shot + King's Shield back in the beginning of the month.

As easy as setting hazards up can be in this meta, Mat Block and King's Shield form an infinite loop without hazards up, don't they? And as easy getting hazards up is, getting them off is also quite easy.
While apparently Mat Block gets no priority increase (unlike King's Shield), and it similarly protects only from attacks, I'm already having nasty flashbacks of Parting Shot + King's Shield if Mat Block is unbanned as a trademark (complete with needing a Smeargle for one end and basically losing your Pokemon slot for the other). Much the same team can be constructed to take advantage of the infinite stall that would result (e.g. Defog trademark guy, Heal Bell/Aromatherapy trademark guy, Toxic trademark guy, maybe Magnezone).
 

Heatran @ Leftovers (?)
Ability: stealthrock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD (idk)
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power

Breaks stall and put rocks when entering in battle. I think it can be good
 
Ok regarding kings shield and mat block. My honest views on kings shield is that with smeargle being its only user. A mon that barely has any offensive or defensive presence and leans more towardw support it doesnt really cause any issues outside of some intricate or niche setups. Kings shield doesnt help smeargle deal with offensive threats well and in any case the obvious play for any smeargle using kings shield unless it has a sash still ready is to immediately switch out. Smeargle cant really stay alive for more than 2 turns vs most things without spore and a sash or the mon in question being really passive. This is why i saw no reason to ban it especially as I carried banlist over from last gen.

In terms of mat block I feel greninja may be muchhh more of a threat with it as a move and honestly I cant say whether or not that may be to bannable levels or not. Greninja on top of having mat block has access to u turn which would allow gren to pretty much scout out the opponent for the entire team and help with safe switchins. It also (as opposed to smeargle) will have less cases where it is forced out and can therefore opp to hard switch, attack or u turn out. Greninja in this case could then also easier come into things it beats 1v1 or be able to avoid would be checks or counters to it with much more ease. Now I know in terms of raw power gren is much more lacking than other stuff in trademarked off its average attacking stats. Honestly this is just my views on a first glance regarding this. But in any case if the community leans more so towards unbanning mat block, kings shield will definitely need to be banned in doing so to avoid stall loops.
 
In terms of mat block I feel greninja may be muchhh more of a threat with it as a move and honestly I cant say whether or not that may be to bannable levels or not. Greninja on top of having mat block has access to u turn which would allow gren to pretty much scout out the opponent for the entire team and help with safe switchins. It also (as opposed to smeargle) will have less cases where it is forced out and can therefore opp to hard switch, attack or u turn out. Greninja in this case could then also easier come into things it beats 1v1 or be able to avoid would be checks or counters to it with much more ease. Now I know in terms of raw power gren is much more lacking than other stuff in trademarked off its average attacking stats. Honestly this is just my views on a first glance regarding this. But in any case if the community leans more so towards unbanning mat block, kings shield will definitely need to be banned in doing so to avoid stall loops.


Just FYI, if Mat Block gets unbanned, it combined with King’s Shield completely walls any team without hazards, since you can constantly switch in with no harm done. I get how common hazards are in this meta, but Defog is also super common as a result. EDIT oh wait that’s stated in the post whoops my bad

Also, as I said earlier, Throh also gets Mat Block, in case anyone cares.

EDIT 2 Because of Mat Block’s wider distribution, it should remain banned rather than King’s Shield becoming banned.
 
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174277

Hoopa Unbound Is being Suspected

After all the talk I have decided to suspect hoopa unbound in the om trademarked. Hoopa unbound is without question one of the most potent wall breakers in the meta, and with sub sets can even become a bane for offense and balance as very little can survive its coverage off its ubers level offensive stats. Very little exist that can reliably switch into most of its sets, and very unlikely something that can swap into all of them, which stay between sub, laser focus and nasty plot (with the first being the most potent). And though held back by its speed in standard, in trademarked it is given ample opportunity to be more of a threat than usual.
How to vote:
  • Make an alt with HUS (Hoopa Unbound Suspect) in the name (not spread out, but together)
  • Have at least 30 games on the alt
  • Have a gxe of 78 minimum
  • Vote BAN, DO NOT BAN, or ABSTAIN
  • I would appreciate at least a small and reasonable explanation of why you voted as such.
Hoopa-Unbound will be banned for the duration of the suspect. The suspect will end in two weeks on May 21st at 9pm est .Tagging The Immortal to implement this
 
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Some odd things I’ve noticed: mawile can’t run swords dance and Volcarona can’t run quiver dance, but it can run calm mind? Is it just me?
 
I've been playing this metagame for a bit now and came up with this set for Weavile which has worked pretty good so far.

Weavile @ Darkinium Z | Icium Z | Fightinium Z
Ability: Laser Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab | Low Kick

Laser Focus ensures that Weavile's moves are going to crit next turn and I'm unsure if anyone else here has posted something like this. The only drawback is switch-ins that resist the move that's selected and the occasional sash. I've been having fun with this set so far and thought I'd share it here.

Cheers!
 
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If you lead with a spikes TM and outspeed the opponent they take spike damage at the start of the battle, is this a bug?
Its how it works coding wise based on what urkerab told me when i asked him regarding it, the same effect applies to other jazards first turn if the user is faster than the mon coming in on he first turn. He said the only other thing he could code is for in the case of a slower mon settig up hazards off a trademark that it would also do dmg then.
 
After Hoopa-U, will transform Mew be suspected too?

With Max HP and Speed + choice scarf, it's like a mega ditto.

The only efective counters are stall (pp is very low on transformed mew) and substitute users. And In case of substitue, It can use U-Turn (for Hoopa-U) or Hyper Voice (for weakened foes). In last case, even healing wish to it's sub user or tank partners ir Just explodes to breaks The sub and Bring a counter safely.

Sry for bad english :S
 
After Hoopa-U, will transform Mew be suspected too?

With Max HP and Speed + choice scarf, it's like a mega ditto.

The only efective counters are stall (pp is very low on transformed mew) and substitute users. And In case of substitue, It can use U-Turn (for Hoopa-U) or Hyper Voice (for weakened foes). In last case, even healing wish to it's sub user or tank partners ir Just explodes to breaks The sub and Bring a counter safely.

Sry for bad english :S
I doubt Transform Mew will be suspected. Leftovers Mew gets thrashed by Choice Scarf/Tailwind on another mon/separate speed booster trademark user/faster mons. Scarf Mew is locked into one move. Neither like priority all that much. There are even more creative ways to "Imposter"-proof such as status, Defense/Special Defense-boosting trademark users, Reflect/Light Screen trademark users, and Heart Swap/Haze(/Psych Up/Topsy-turvy/Power Split) trademark users.
 
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Can someone tell me if this a bug at turn 16 ? I'd must have outspeed him with my Alakazam, but it looks like you can't use trick room and move just after that... Is there any link with the priority...?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7trademarked-906132168
that’s because you mega evolve at the start of the turn and speed order is determined after mega evolution, you reverse trick room after the speed order is determined which is why you don’t outspeed him. this happens with swift swim aswell i.e. if you switch in a pokemon with drizzle your swift swim pokemon won’t get the speed (unless it’s mega swampert but that’s its own thing)
 
There is a bug with Geomancy.

If you have a Smeargle with Geomancy as ability, it will be locked into Geomancy and be unable to use its regular moves.

Example

Smeargle
Ability: Geomancy
EVs: 1 HP
- Tackle
 
There is a bug with Geomancy.

If you have a Smeargle with Geomancy as ability, it will be locked into Geomancy and be unable to use its regular moves.

Example

Smeargle
Ability: Geomancy
EVs: 1 HP
- Tackle
If that is before geomancy activates thats how it should work. If after, then that is a bug. Geomancy is a charge move, no mon should be able to act out of one till it fully charges.
 
Because looking at all of the banned moves in one list all at once can make it a bit hard to understand, I relisted them in order by type:

Mechanic based:
Assist, Copycat, Nature Power, Skill Swap
Protect moves:
Baneful Bunker, Detect, Mat Block, Protect, Spiky Shield
Switching related:
Ingrain, Mean Look, Parting Shot, Roar, Whirlwind
Other strong moves:
Destiny Bond, Spider Web
Sleep inducing moves


If the thread owner could add this or a reworded version of this to the OP, that would be appreciated.
 

Heatran @ Leftovers (?)
Ability: stealthrock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD (idk)
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power

Breaks stall and put rocks when entering in battle. I think it can be good
i actually use this already it kills all chanseys
 

Ktütverde

of course
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
1) What bothers me is how the ability stealthrock works: if you look at this replay of lectrys
Found this bug in the ROM version of Trademarked:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7trademarked-558816
When Garchomp flinched after Tapu Koko hit it with Mirror Move trademarked Rock Slide on Turn 25, it flinched on Turn 26 when I don't think it was supposed to.
you can see victini being damaged by @ stealth rock even though it was sent on turn1, which makes no sense because the priority of trademarks is of +0 amirite? even if it isn't +0, a switch has simply an infinite priority which can only be outprioritized by pursuit.

"Pursuit is a special exception to the general rule of priority, due to its effect. Switching fundamentally happens before any moves can be performed, but when Pursuit is targeting a Pokémon that switches out, it will hit the Pokémon before it can switch, meaning that it will go before any other move, no matter its priority. " from: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Priority

So how can @ stealthrock happen before the switch in of victini on the field on turn1? Even if @ trademarks had a prio of say +5 (highest prio possible after infinite priorities like switches and pursuit), they should happen after a switch obviously. Thus the Archeops's @ stealthrock is bugged because Victini's switch-in in this replay as a lower priority than @ stealth rock from archeops. That seems obvious if we just read what happens

"Go! Victini!

Abyssal Bot sent out Archeops!
[The opposing Archeops's Stealth Rock]

The opposing Archeops used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around your team!
Pointed stones dug into Victini!"

But that could just be the replay that isn't adapted to show that stealth rock has a priority similar to pursuit when used as a trademark.

2) So now talking about priority.. I maybe missed some posts that mentioned it, but after checking kinda quickly the different posts in this thread, I haven't seen it being discussed (please gimme the links to posts mentioning it if im wrong).

I had a test game on the OU ladder and quickly found a "landorus vs pelipper turn1", with my landorus being faster than pelipper. First thing, the order in which pokémons are sent on turn1 doesn't depend on their respective speed. Example:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-906253272 : pelipper is slower but is seen being sent first (im faster cuz i attack first on turn1)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-906257317: pelipper is slower too but sent last (asked a friend to bring a peli without speed)

then the abilities that activate upon touching the field will be activating with the same "priority" (intimidate goes first if landorus is faster, else drizzle goes first. Same with grassy terrain, lets say they all have a "priobility" of +0).

examples:
drizzle activates before intimidate since peli is scarfed here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-906260609
inti goes before grassyterrain cuz tapubulu slower: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-906279048
here grassy goes first (scarf bulu): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-906279559
etc

I'm then assuming it works the same way for trademarks, so we can as well consider that all trademarks are the trademark "assist" (ik its banned) that can only select moves from a reservoir which only contains 1 move: the move you want as a trademark. Since assist has a priority of +0, then my schematization is just obvious (if trademarks can have priority then just tell me, I haven't seen anything talking about prio yet).

So thanks to the list by TrainerX493 , we can see magic coat isn't banned although it is a protect move. Actually, all trademarks that are non-assistable status moves should be banned. The list of non-assistable moves can be found here (u have to click a "show" button):
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Assist_(move)#Uncallable_moves
Roar and Protect are there, as well as moves like trick, transform, me first and Mirror Move, which aren't in the banlist. I dont feel like going test if these moves actually dont work as trademarks, I guess some will provoke bugs since Lectrys already showed mirror move is bugged, which makes sense since it's a non-assistable move for this reason: priority error.

PS: If someone could explain me why trick isn't assistable please, idgi.
 
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174392


Hoopa-U has insane damage output and it basically breaks stall just by attacking, on top of that it’s got insane coverage that can 2HKO even the most common counters (gunk shot for fini and fire punch for magearna for example), it can also run a special set with nasty plot or a mixed one with life orb. imo hyperspace fury adds a broken factor to an already good pokemon: this move can bypass subs and protection moves making it incredible against wish pokemon. I love running through stall but this thing is too good, i’ll go for BAN
 

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