Type Optimisation (Slate 21 Submissions - Flying/Ghost, Flying/Normal, Flying/Fairy)

Reserving Ice/Normal Ursaring and Ice/Bug Accelegor. That's it for the moment.
Sorry but Accelgor is already Bug/Dark

Also just posting to let you guys know, you can actually play Type Optimisation now on Dragon Heaven! Thanks to charizard8888 !

If there's no one on, you can test your teams against the bot BatterBotto, and so far every winner until Lunatone is updated.

We can also start discussing past winning entries to see if some of them need further buffing or are too powerful after a few tests.

Also pm me any bugs and I'll pass it along
 
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Pokemon: Vanilluxe
Type:

BST: 81 (+10) / 90 (-5) / 80 (-5) / 130 (+20) / 85 (-10) / 104 (+25) | BST: 570
Abilities: No Guard / Snow Warning / Tinted Lens
New Moves: Nasty Plot, Focus Blast, Hyper Voice
Removed Move: Sheer Cold (Because of No Guard, otherwise just quick ban this combo)
Justification/Niche: Ice / Normal is not an ideal type, consider the fact that 4x weakness to Fighting is already a death warrant. With a reasonable Speed of 104 which help for Choice Scarf, and access of Nasty Plot, as well as more useful Abilities with No Guard and Tinted Lens, Vanilluxe is more than just floating ice cream Pokémon. Optimized Hariyama, faster Fighting-types and Mach Punch will give it nightmares, but you can set up a hail with Snow Warning for no miss Blizzard, or use No Guard so that Focus Blast will not be Focus Miss especially considering the Steel-types, and you always got Freeze-Dry to break thorough the likes of non-rain Mega Swampert, Toxapex and other notable Water-types.


Pokemon: Volbeat
Type:

BST: 80 (+15) / 123 (+50) / 70 (-5) / 100 (+43) / 70 (-15) / 127 (+42) | BST: 570
Abilities: Technician / Refrigerate / Prankster
New Moves: Leech Life, Surf, Ice Beam
Justification/Niche: Ice / Bug will be a horrible defensive type, and I was successful with the Lunatone submission for Rock / Psychic, so I try to do similar treatment for Volbeat (there just isn't many Bug-types who would logically go along with Ice). It can work as Physical, Special or Mixed (provided that you got Tail Glow for the latter two). While Refrigerate may be the most used Ability for Double-Edge and Quick Attack, Technician can be used if you want to use Hidden Power coverage. U-Turn is still there for pivoting, and a base Speed of 127 is pretty fast on its own.


Pokemon: Weavile
Type:

BST: 70 / 120 / 65 / 110 (+65) / 80 (-5) / 125 | BST: 570
Abilities: Mold Breaker / Pressure / Sniper
New Moves: Stomping Tantrum, Drain Punch, Frost Breath
Justification/Niche: Weavile is not enough viable to be wholesome OU, so I will simply fix up its bad Special Attack into useable (and to make Nasty Plot more significant) as well as better Abilities. Mold Breaker helps Weavile to penetrate Unaware, Disguise and other non-contact Abilities, while Sniper can stack well with Shadow Claw, Night Slash and makes Crits more powerful and punishing (Frost Breath might be fun to use too). Nothing else to say, but the raised Special Attack will do permit more unpredictability than Weavile would ever be outside of this Pet Mod.
 

Pokemon: Stantler
Types:

BST: 63 (-10) / 115 (+20) / 52 (-10) / 95 (+10) / 80 (+15) / 100 (+15) (BST 505)
Abilities: Intimidate / Slush Rush / Sap Sipper (HA)
New Move: Icicle Crash, Ice Beam, Blizzard
Justification/Niche: (wip)
 
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Sorry but Accelgor is already Bug/Dark

Also just posting to let you guys know, you can actually play Type Optimisation now on Dragon Heaven! Thanks to charizard8888 !

If there's no one on, you can test your teams against the bot BatterBotto, and so far every winner until Lunatone is updated.

We can also start discussing past winning entries to see if some of them need further buffing or are too powerful after a few tests.

Also pm me any bugs and I'll pass it along
Wonderful, I'll get my submissions in later. Hopefully.



Here's some replays with me versus a good friend Ransei I did last night.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49386
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49387


I've come to the realization there's a lot of 105 base Speed Pokemon that are accepted, so its a bit awkward to play around when speed ties decide what happens. Nidoking and Lycanroc-Midnight are a good example, but Lilligant is also in the same boat. Only I didnt realize when playing, Ransei did, and it felt kinda weird. (Bastiodon, Arcanine, and Kangaskhan are other things that hit that speed tier.)

I was happy to see my Bronzong did well, but thats just me having bias towards it. Rampardos was also scary as hell, even unSTAB Head Smash tore through Araquanid, which I hoped could maybe take at least one :[


I'll do some testing tonight as well hopefully.
 
There is a bug that puts Bellossom's Natural Cure and Cryogonal's Aerilate as invalid, so those should be fixed.

I will post a replay involving some of my submissions, Exploudit's Flygon and G-Luke's Arcanine soon. Both are with BatterBot so its not the best proof, but it still help out to determine the bulk, power and other performance of Optimized Pokémon.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49392
(Damn, BattleBot had one own Hariyama on its team! I realized too late how truly bulky Optimized Hariyama is! Also Bellossom is now scary, especially after Quiver Dance spam.)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49393
(Arcanine, on the other hand, can prove to work too well; Spamming Fire Lash can put an end into Hariyama, and is otherwise way too bulky for its own good with both Fur Coat and Assault Vest combined. Once its potential counters are dead, it cannot be stopped.)
 
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There is a bug that puts Bellossom's Natural Cure and Cryogonal's Aerilate as invalid, so those should be fixed.

I will post a replay involving some of my submissions, Exploudit's Flygon and G-Luke's Arcanine soon. Both are with BatterBot so its not the best proof, but it still help out to determine the bulk, power and other performance of Optimized Pokémon.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49392
(Damn, BattleBot had one own Hariyama on its team! I realized too late how truly bulky Optimized Hariyama is! Also Bellossom is now scary, especially after Quiver Dance spam.)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49393
(Arcanine, on the other hand, can prove to work too well; Spamming Fire Lash can put an end into Hariyama, and is otherwise way too bulky for its own good with both Fur Coat and Assault Vest combined. Once its potential counters are dead, it cannot be stopped.)
I had a weird bug while playing against the bot :
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7typeoptimisation-49394

My Musharna had over 2500 SpD for no reason
Thanks for reporting, fixed all of them!
Had accidentally given Musharana 1100 SpD instead of 110 :x
Also all Typeopts till Araidos are in
 

Pokemon: Stantler
Types:
/

BST: 83 (+10) / 125 (+30) / 62 / 110 (+25) / 70 (+5) / 120 (+35) (BST 570)
Abilities: Lightningrod / Slush Rush / Snow Warning (HA)
New Move: Icicle Crash, Ice Shard, Ice Beam
So another did Stantler before, but mine has... a purpose. Snowy Rudolph... Snowdolph? A frail mixed attacker who begs you to bring a priority punch, but makes you regret not doing so. A calm mind is scary, but a coverage move to physically assault Blissey is nasty although Psyshock exists as well.



Pokémon: Mightyena
Type:
/

BST: 100 (+30)/ 135 (+45) / 90 (+20) / 40 (-20) / 90 (+30) / 115 (+45) (BST 570)
Abilities: Strong Jaw / Guts / Moxie
New Moves: Hone Claws, Icicle Crash, Superpower
Evil Husky with a snowy strike. All his abilities play into his strong offensive typing. Ice Fang/Crunch are nasty, but a Guts set feels a burn and murders. A Moxie set just snowballs, pun intended.




Type: Ice/Bug
Ability: Tough Claws/Magic Guard HA: Sheer Force
Stats: 85/135/115/45/50/110 BST: 540
New Moves: Icicle Crash, Lunge, Shell Smash
Niche: Kingler honestly would be a lot higher as its double dance set was decent as is. Whaddya mean this is my same Kingler set from the mono-water slate you all forgot to care about? This is the Kingler you need. Well, it might not be, but the idea is simple enough. Use your combo of STAB and water for massive damage mixed with Shell Smash and ability is based on preference. Icicle Crash hits hard but doesn't benefit from Tough Claws, while Lunge doesn't take advantage of Sheer Force. Magic Guard because coming in on a sandstorm with 3 layers of spikes with Stealth Rocks and Toxic spikes means you're pretty much instantly killed. It serves no real theme other than having a vital switch in purpose in a SR heavy meta.
 
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Masquerain
Type
:

Ability: Intimidate / Swift Swim | HA: Magic Guard
Old Stats: 70 / 60 / 62 / 100 / 82 / 80
New Stats: 70 / 60 / 75 / 125 / 95 / 145 (BST 570)
Added Moves: Hail, Aurora Veil, Freeze-Dry
Justification/Niche: A real glass cannon. With its already good movepool consisting of Bug- and Water-type moves, it can work as a fast special scarfed sweeper, it can counter Rain teams with Freeze-Dry and Giga Drain/Energy Ball or it can setup with QD and sweep. It's super fast, so you can use it with a Choice Scarf. It can outspeed and kill even Rayquaza and Mega Ray at +1.

Some sets:

Masquerain @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Guard/Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry/Ice Beam/Blizzard
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain/Scald/Air Slash/Shadow Ball
- U-turn

Masquerain @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard/Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry/Ice Beam/Blizzard
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain/Scald/Air Slash/Shadow Ball
- Quiver Dance
 
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Pokemon: Vanilluxe
Type: Ice/Normal
Abilities: Snow Warning / Slush Rush / Adaptability (HA)
Old Stats: 71 / 95 / 85 / 110 / 95 / 79 (535 BST)
New Stats: 90 (+19) / 105 (+10) / 85 / 115 (+5) / 95 / 80 (+1) (570 BST)
Added Moves: Rock Slide, Hyper Voice, Aura Sphere
Justification/Niche: Soon enough.



Pokemon: Absol
Type: Ice/Dark
Abilities: Super Luck / Adaptability / Magic Guard
Old Stats: 65 / 130 / 60 / 75 / 60 / 75 (465 BST)
New Stats: 80 (+15) / 130 / 70 (+10) / 105 (+30) / 70 (+10) / 99 (+24) (554 BST)
Added Moves: Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Nasty Plot
Justification/Niche: Soon. Maybe.




"but pg, where's the ice bug?????/?????'

not here yet, im lazy and at the library.
 
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Cookie Butter

formerly the someone

Pokemon: Crabominable
Type: Ice/Bug
Old BST: 97/132/77/62/67/43
New BST: 100/135/90/65/75/105
Abilities: Contrary / Fur Coat
New Moves: Lunge, Icicle Crash, Shell Smash
Justification/Niche: Crabominable gets Fighting and Ground coverage to help against Steel and Fire types that resist both its STABs. This unresisted coverage combination make it a great fit on hyper-offense teams. Contrary makes Shell Smash useless, but makes Superpower and Ice Hammer powerful tools to boost its stats. Let's be honest, Ice/Bug is so horribly defensively that it would never get a chance to set up. Well, maybe with Fur Coat. Crabominable has a lot of fur... Double defense combined with Lunge's attack drops might let you survive a hit and set up.
Sample moveset:
Crabominable @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Hammer
- Lunge
- Superpower
- Earthquake

Pokemon: Regigigas
Type: Ice/Normal
Old BST: 110/160/110/80/110/100
New BST: 90/120/200/40/100/20
Abilities: Solid Rock / Analytic / Moxie
New Moves: Trick Room, Ice Hammer, Avalanche
Justification/Niche: If Stakataka can work as a Trick Room user with 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Ground, then Ice/Normal Regigigas can too.
 
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Ability: Tough Claws/Magic Coat HA: Sheer Force
I'm guessing you mean Magic Guard instead of Magic Coat?

I'm not exactly too sure how Refrigerate interacts with Normal STAB and Ice/ Would charizard8888 know how it behaves in the simulators? At the very least Refrigerate would be useful for the more unique utility Normal moves like Fake Out/Extremespeed/Hyper Voice/Facade but that's about it imo.

Also Berserk seems weird, as I was trying out Bronzong. Sometimes it activates, other times it doesn't (all taking direct damage from the enemy)

My entries:

Masquerain
Type:
Ice/Bug
Ability: Tinted Lens / Magic Guard / Dazzling
Stats: 70 / 60 / 75 / 125 / 105 / 135 (BST 570)
New Moves: Powder, Freeze-Dry, Parting Shot
Justification/Niche: Yes another Masquerain entry but having Ice Beam in its moveset is really useful for adding 3 more new moves. Freeze-Dry is a really good Ice move, Parting Shot goes with Magic Guard sets and Powder is a gimmicky option but Ice/Bug will surely attract Fire type moves so it could catch you by surprise.

Furret
Type:
Ice/Normal
Ability: No Guard / Dazzling / Fur Coat
Stats: 85 / 65 / 85 / 130 / 80 / 125 (BST 570)
New Moves: Boomburst, Freeze Dry, Nasty Plot
Justification/Niche: Normal/Ice is very susceptible to priority such as Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, so Dazzling is a needed ability option. Dazzling + Focus Sash + Nasty Plot is a combo you could use. No Guard is an interesting option since it has access to moves like Blizzard, Focus Blast and Thunder. It also has Flamethrower for Steel types in its arsenal. Fur Coat because....it's a ferret with fur in its name! Plus maybe you could somehow use that with Nasty Plot and Substitute I guess.

Persian
Type:
Ice/Dark
Ability: Flash Fire / Queenly Majesty / Magic Guard
Stats: 85 / 120 / 95 / 60 / 85 / 125 (BST 570)
New Moves: Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Sucker Punch
Justification/Niche: Persian has a lot of Dark type moves anyway. Dark type gives it protection from Prankster leads, allowing it to function as an anti-lead when equipped with a Focus Sash + Queenly Majesty. Flash Fire protects its Atk stat from Burns and also removes a weakness. Magic Guard is useful for Life Orb sets, Toxic/Flame Orb Switcheroo or just U-turn pivot utility.
 
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Im disappointed that nobody used skill link

Pokemon: Alolan Sandslash
Type: Ice / Bug
BST:
75 / 115 / 95 / 70 / 85 / 130
Abilities: Slush Rush / Skill Link / Tough Claws
New Moves: Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Thunder Punch
Removed Moves:
Justification/Niche:
Simply Skill Link with it boosting dual STAB in Icicle Spear and Pin Missile as well as Rock Blast. It also has the option to run more kinds of sets using the cool move pool, like running Tough Claws with STAB Leech Life, and also Drill Run, or it can be a hail abuser with access to Slush Rush and Aurora Veil. Access to Earthquake and Drill Run help its matchup against steels, and it can Tpunch to hit Steel/Flying.
Sample moveset: (optional)
 
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Im disappointed that nobody used skill link

Pokemon: Alolan Sandslash
Type: Ice / Bug
BST:
75 / 115 / 95 / 70 / 85 / 130
Abilities: Slush Rush / Skill Link / Tough Claws
New Moves: Pin Missile, Rock Blast, Agility (guys I'm debating on wether I want this or Ice Shard help a man out)
Removed Moves:
Justification/Niche:
Simply Skill Link with it boosting dual STAB in Icicle Spear and Pin Missile as well as Rock Blast. It also has the option to run more kinds of sets using the cool move pool, like running Tough Claws with STAB Leech Life, and also Drill Run, or it can be a hail abuser with access to Slush Rush and Aurora Veil. Access to Earthquake and Drill Run help its matchup against steels.
Sample moveset: (optional)
Due to its stupid speed, i don't think that Sandslash-Alola needs either Agility or Ice Shard imo, but if you really want one of those, I would go with Ice Shard.
 
Mobile so 0 formatting :[

Bug/Ice - Pheromosa
No Guard/Magic Guard
HP) 109
Atk) 29
Def) 79
SpA) 139
SpD) 109
Spe) 89
New Moves - Earth Power

Normal/Ice - Crabominable
Sturdy/Stamina
HP) 137
Atk) 137
Def) 97
SpA) 17
SpD) 67
Spe) 47
New Moves - Ice Shard, Double Edge

Dark/Ice - Mightyena
Adaptability/Strong Jaw
HP) 61
Atk) 131
Def) 71
SpA) 31
SpD) 61
Spe) 151
 
I figured I'd bring this up eventually, and I have a bit of spare time.


I understand that we've got 'type OPTIMIZATIONS' in our title. That's a given. From day 1 I've pretty much been creating Pokemon about what I'd view as average - no Landorus Therians, no Gen 4 Garchomps, instead... more like Excadrill or Zygarde. Capable of doing a few roles decently, but nothing that screams 'holy hell ban me already'. Stats that aren't overly slotted to reduce one specific stat to as close to 0 as possible, but also give the 'mons enough versatility to be different from one another. An example being my submitted Nidoqueen, she can do All-Out Attacker, Hazard Stacker, or Tank roles, but since she's weak to Ice and Water, she has a bit of trouble doing exceedingly well in any of those categories. She even could go mixed if she so wanted, since Rock coverage is only possible via Rock Slide if memory serves.

However, sometimes some other people's submissions confuse me a wee bit - not that it's a bad thing, sometimes those confusions turn into me voting for them eventually - but I just can't follow along the thinking path sometimes. One example being min maxing - optimization is important, but it's just begging to create overpowered creations.


I was curious on if anyone else used a sort of pattern or 'rule' when it came to their submissions, since I try to follow a pattern myself.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
I figured I'd bring this up eventually, and I have a bit of spare time.


I understand that we've got 'type OPTIMIZATIONS' in our title. That's a given. From day 1 I've pretty much been creating Pokemon about what I'd view as average - no Landorus Therians, no Gen 4 Garchomps, instead... more like Excadrill or Zygarde. Capable of doing a few roles decently, but nothing that screams 'holy hell ban me already'. Stats that aren't overly slotted to reduce one specific stat to as close to 0 as possible, but also give the 'mons enough versatility to be different from one another. An example being my submitted Nidoqueen, she can do All-Out Attacker, Hazard Stacker, or Tank roles, but since she's weak to Ice and Water, she has a bit of trouble doing exceedingly well in any of those categories. She even could go mixed if she so wanted, since Rock coverage is only possible via Rock Slide if memory serves.

However, sometimes some other people's submissions confuse me a wee bit - not that it's a bad thing, sometimes those confusions turn into me voting for them eventually - but I just can't follow along the thinking path sometimes. One example being min maxing - optimization is important, but it's just begging to create overpowered creations.


I was curious on if anyone else used a sort of pattern or 'rule' when it came to their submissions, since I try to follow a pattern myself.
I've done like 3 submissions ever, so I haven't created 'rules' in my head just yet, but overall bad types need to be really minmaxed and maybe overpowered imo. Bad typing, especially ones with Stealth Rock weakness, outweighs minmaxed stats. The minmaxed Pokemon will situationally be overpowered, and more commonly die to entry hazards or priority or Scarf users or whatever. That's why MegaBeedrill, even with Adaptability, even with the Gen 7 Mega Speed mechanics, even with 150 Attack and 145 Speed still isn't OU.
 
I've done like 3 submissions ever, so I haven't created 'rules' in my head just yet, but overall bad types need to be really minmaxed and maybe overpowered imo. Bad typing, especially ones with Stealth Rock weakness, outweighs minmaxed stats. The minmaxed Pokemon will situationally be overpowered, and more commonly die to entry hazards or priority or Scarf users or whatever. That's why MegaBeedrill, even with Adaptability, even with the Gen 7 Mega Speed mechanics, even with 150 Attack and 145 Speed still isn't OU.
I can respect that, and it makes me happy to hear someone else's thoughts.
never seen you before either so hai

Kinda hard to tell sometimes if people are alive or dead on this thread, just due to its nature of having people needing to post once a week.

I don't like minmaxing stats personally, it feels like a cheap man's method to make a typing 'great' when in reality it's just the stats carrying the Pokemon. Some typings like Bug/Poison kinda do need it, but stuff like most Steel and Fairy combinations don't need to have 20 attack just to have unbreakable defenses alongside good special attack and speed in my eyes.
 
I've done like 3 submissions ever, so I haven't created 'rules' in my head just yet, but overall bad types need to be really minmaxed and maybe overpowered imo. Bad typing, especially ones with Stealth Rock weakness, outweighs minmaxed stats. The minmaxed Pokemon will situationally be overpowered, and more commonly die to entry hazards or priority or Scarf users or whatever. That's why MegaBeedrill, even with Adaptability, even with the Gen 7 Mega Speed mechanics, even with 150 Attack and 145 Speed still isn't OU.
Personally, I do mind minmaxing when used on a good type combination and when fitted to do so. There's a reason why Pheromosa ended up being banned from OU does to good offensive type, great Attack and Special Attack, and very high Speed, and despite its awful defense, the snowball effect from Beast Boost and coverage moves makes its flaws almost moot. Toxapex, Aegislash and Shuckle also quite minmaxing, but Shuckle's case actually ended up being so oriented on defensive that it ended up being too slow and having an HP too low to sustain it.

When used on a generally bad typing combination, then it depends on how intense the minmaxing is. If it is something like Psychic/Dark, a type that have no resistances, only one immunity but a crippling weakness to Bug-type, or anything that is 4x Rock does to Stealth Rock, I can accept it long as it will not go overboard. Nobody is going to accept something like a stat distribution of 70/170/80/70/80/150 with set up moves and Dazzling/Queenly Majesty regardless of typing the Pokémon have in here.
 

G-Luke

We Eat Losers
is a Pre-Contributor
WIP


Pokemon: Absol
Typing: Ice / Dark
Base Stats: 70 HP / 130 Atk / 80 Def / 117 SpA / 60 SpD / 113 Spe
Abilities: No Guard | Intimidate [HA: Guts]
New Moves: Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Nasty Plot
Removed Moves: Fire Blast, Flamethrower
Niche: Absol is now a threatening mixed attacker, with loads of different sets that each serve a different function, from Pursuit Trapper, to mixed AoA to Guts SD Sweeper to No Guard Nasty Plot.


Pokemon: Yanmega
Typing: Ice / Bug
Base Stats: 126 HP / 71 Atk / 86 Def / 126 SpA / 56 SpD / 95 Spe
Abilities: Speed Boost | Tinted Lens [HA: Swarm]
New Moves: Blizzard, Ice Beam, Earth Power
Niche: With Speed Boost sets threatening offensive teams and Tinted Lens decimating defensive switchins, Yanmega is easilya top threat.


Pokemon: Gumshoos
Typing: Ice / Normal
Base Stats: 128 HP / 130 Atk / 70 Def / 55 SpA / 70 SpD / 75 Spe
Abilities: Stakeout | Adaptability [HA: Slush Rush]
New Moves: Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Swords Dance
Niche: A potent wallbreaker, Gumsoos can either use Adaptability or Stakeout to dismantle common balance cores that rely on pivots. Access to STAB priority also makes it not a sitting duck against offence.
 

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