Gen 3 Tyranitar (OU) (WIP)

[OVERVIEW]

Tyranitar is the best Pokemon in ADV OU. First of all, although its Speed isn't satisfying, other stats grant it not only great bulk but also amazing physically offensive attack backed up by solid specially offensive attack. Next, although its typing is not defensively desirable, it has access to useful STAB moves such as Rock Slide, Pursuit, and Crunch. Last but not least, its ability is useful for doing damage to Pokemon such as Snorlax, Suicune, and Salac Berry Heracross. In a nutshell, Tyranitar is versatile and dangerous, so dealing with it is one of the first things to consider when building a team.

[SET]
name: Fast Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Earthquke
move 4: Hidden Power Grass
item: Lum Berry
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Naive
evs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

This set is for a quick setup, thus being faster than Gengar and offensive Starmie immediately. Dragon Dance allows Tyranitar to boost its Attack to insane levels while simultaneously making up for its mediocre Speed, allowing it to make use of Rock Slide's flinch chance. Rock Slide is its primary STAB move and one of the reasons why Tyranitar is so dangerous. The flinch chance can pull the user out of a very tough situation and it forces opponents to carry at least one of the reliable Rock-resistant Pokemon. Earthquake has great coverage alongside Rock Slide, hitting Steel-type Pokemon such as Metagross, Jirachi, and Magneton as well as opposing Tyranitar. Hidden Power Grass gets around teams that rely on Swampert to handle Tyranitar. Hidden Power Bug OHKOes offensive Starmie, checks Celebi well, and hits Claydol hard. Ice Beam mainly lets Tyranitar be one of the most dangerous Pokemon against Flygon superman teams, because with Lum Berry, it can then get use out of being able to safely set up on Pokemon such as Jirachi. Meanwhile, it is also a legitimate tool against Claydol and enables Tyranitar to KO Salamence regardless of Rock Slide's accuracy issue and Attack dropped by Intimidate. Double-Edge hits Flygon and bulky Water-type Pokemon such as Swampert and Milotic harder, maintains neutral coverage on Claydol, hurts Pokemon such as Zapdos without worrying about the accuracy issue of Rock Slide, and smashes Dugtrio, which wants to prevent it from setting up freely.

Maximizing Speed EVs with a Naive nature allows Tyranitar to move before the likes of Gengar, Adamant Dugtrio, and offensive Starmie after one boost. 8 SpA EVs let Tyranitar guarantee 2HKO Swampert with 248 HP EVs by Hidden Power Grass. Hasty allows Tyranitar to take damage from Pokemon such as Swampert better. If Hidden Power Bug is used, Jolly can be chosen. If the power to bust up defensive teams is concerned, natures such as Naughty, Lonely, Adamant, Mild, and Rash can be used, seeing as Tyranitar outspeed most relevant targets with just maximum Speed EVs after one Dragon Dance. If Hidden Power Grass is not chosen, 20 HP EVs let Tyranitar avoid being 2HKOed by Rock Slide from Aerodactyl because Defense IVs aren't dropped. Lum Berry lets Tyranitar get a second boost against Pokemon such as Gengar, Zapdos, and Blissey attempting to cripple it with status.

Team Options
========

Fast Dragon Dance variants of Tyranitar are commonly seen on offensive teams because offensive teams frequently don't carry Rapid Spinners and can't easily take advantage of bulk to survive attacks such as Earthquake from standard Dugtrio and Hydro Pump from offensice Starmie. Furthermore, it's not necessarily a pure sweeper. For example, with Hidden Power Grass, it can be used to weaken Swampert in midgame, thus letting sweepers such as Dragon Dance Salamence and Aerodactyl shine. Thanks to Explosion, Metagross can wear down an opposing bulky water-type Pokemon such as Suicune, thus letting Tyranitar do its job. Zapdos provides coverage against opposing specially-frail threats like Metagross and Flygon. In particular, Hidden Power Ice variants help to chip Celebi.

[SET]
name: Bulky Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Earthquke
move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Taunt
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 80 Atk / 180 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Dragon Dance allows Tyranitar to raise its Attack and makes up for its ordinary Speed. Rock Slide is its STAB move, of which the flinch chance can be game-changing. Earthquake has great coverage alongside Rock Slide, hitting Steel-types such as Metagross, Jirachi, Magneton, and the rare Steelix as well as opposing Tyranitar. After one boost, Hidden Power Bug OHKOes Celebi, beats Claydol if it switches in on the turn Tyranitar uses Dragon Dance, and hits Flygon fairly hard. Taunt prevents itself from being phazed or affected with status.

248 HP EVs allow Tyranitar to always survive +1 Earthquake from Adamant Salamence and any Meteor Mash from Metagross except Choice Band variants, which is a great extra piece of defensive security. 180 Speed EVs let Tyranitar Speed Tie with standard Milotic. 16 HP / 120 Def is the most efficient spread to survive Earthquake from standard Dugtrio. 184 HP EVs are worth surviving Hydro Pump from offensive Starmie and Earthquake from standard Dugtrio. 252 HP / 56 Def is an example to survive Earthquake from Adamant Dugtrio. With Leftovers, 252 HP / 48 SpD ensures that Hidden Power Grass from +1 Jirachi will never 2HKO Tyranitar. However, EVs can't be used too much on bulk if you actually want to get something going with Attack. Lum Berry can be used so that it can get a second boost against Pokemon such as Gengar, Zapdos, and Porygon2 attempting to cripple it with status.

Team Options
========

This set likes to set up twice to outspeed everything and clean late-game, and investment in bulk gives it the shot to set up. It is seen more use on balanced teams than offensive ones, but it still has its place on the latter because Dragon Dance Tyranitar is an offensive Pokemon by nature. Bulky Dragon Dance variants of Tyranitar are frequently used to sweep on teams with Rapid Spinners such as Claydol and Starmie, as these teams can allow Dragon Dance Tyranitar to be brought out healthily. Spikes users such as Skarmory lay entry hazards, which have excellent synergy with Tyranitar's STAB Rock Slide.

[SET]
name: Pursuit
move 1: Pursuit
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
move 4: Roar / Hidden Power Grass / Ice Beam / Brick Break
item: Leftovers
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Modest / Quiet
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Pursuit allows Tyranitar to get rid of Gengar for its teammates and do much damage to Choice Band variants of Salamence and Aerodactyl if they are locked into a move that can't beat Tyranitar. Crunch KOes Gengar and Starmie that stay in on Tyranitar, hits a number of its switch-ins such as Swampert for fairly good damage, and takes on Shadow Ball CurseLax. Fire Blast hits Steel-types such as Skarmory, Metagross, Magneton, Forretress. Ice Beam can be used to hit Pokemon such as Zapdos, Salamence, Aerodactyl, and Flygon. It also OHKOes standard Dugtrio, which is quite important. Roar turns this set into a solid answer to Shadow Ball CurseLax while also giving it the ability to Spikes shuffle and stop Baton Pass users. It is especially helpful on teams that are usually slow-paced and desperately need a phazer. Hidden Power Grass can be used to surprise Swampert. Brick Break is mainly for deterring Dragon Dance Tyranitar from setting up on it twice, and it's also useful for weakened Blissey. Rock Slide gives Tyranitar access to a physical STAB move that hits Pokemon such as Blissey, Zapdos, Gyarados, and Moltres. Taunt prevents Spikes users such as Skarmory and Forretress from laying entry hazards and Pokemon such as Blissey from recovering health or hitting Tyranitar with status. Earthquake sometimes prevents Tyranitar from being setup bait for Jirachi. Focus Punch OHKOes opposing Tyranitar trying to click Dragon Dance.

The spread of maximum HP and Special attack EVs with a Modest nature is to soak hits such as attacks from Gengar, Claydol, and Starmie, and then strike back with STAB Pursuit or Crunch. With physical attacks such as Brick Break, a bit Attack EVs with a Quiet nature can be used. If Taunt is used, it's worth outrunning Pokemon such as Skarmory.

Team Options
========

Include potential teammates for the Pokemon, as well as descriptions and details as to why.

[SET]
name: Mixed
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Ice Beam / Rock Slide / Crunch
move 4: Brick Break / Focus Punch
item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Brick break is frequently combined with three special attacks. STAB Rock Slide smacks Gengar, Aerodactyl, Gyarados, and Moltres, which is usually used with Focus Punch so that Blissey can be chipped for the opportunity to let the combo shine. Crunch is notable in the third slot not only for Gengar and but also for hitting Claydol harder than other moves.

Maximum Speed can ensure that Tyranitar outruns all Swampert, most variants of Metagross, and some defensive Zapdos. Hasty lets Tyranitar be better versus foes such as Gengar and Zapdos. If more physical bulk is necessary for attacks such as Earthquake from Flygon without Choice Band and Brick Break from mixed Salamence, Naive is an ideal nature. If Rock Slide is used, 12 Attack EVs will allow it to guarantee OHKO on Aerodactyl. Some mixed Tyranitar go for bulk at the cost of Speed EVs, allowing them to fulfill a secondary role versus offensive teams by holding off Zapdos and Gengar. As a result, they may consider outspeeding Pokemon such as Taunt Skarmory and fast variants of Claydol. Lum Berry is great for shrugging off Will-O-Wisp from Pokemon such as Moltres, countering sleepers such as Gengar, and preventing it from being affected by Toxic, which is important because this set is not going to last a long time. Making Gengar have to lay status twice is also a bigger deal because if it gets hit twice, it can no longer switch into attacks it could normally swallow, thus diminishing the threat level of one of the tier's most dangerous Pokemon. Salac Berry can be used on hyper offensive teams.
Rash Naughty Lonely

Team Options
========

Include potential teammates for the Pokemon, as well as descriptions and details as to why.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Rock Slide
move 2: Earthquke
move 3: Hidden Power Bug
move 4: Focus Punch / Roar
item: Leftovers
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Reasonable investment on Speed means that Tyranitar is outrunning much clutter such as Blissey and bulky Megagross, while still retaining enough bulk to live standard Dugtrio's Earthquake.

Team Options
========

This set is an all-encompassing threat that forces switches under Spikes by always having a coverage move.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Rock Slide
move 2: Earthquke
move 3: Hidden Power Bug
move 4: Focus Punch
item: Leftovers
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Double-Edge
Brick Break

Maximizing Speed is good for Pokemon such as Milotic and some variants of Metagross and Suicune. Reasonable investment in bulk lets Tyranitar do a better job against threats such as Curselax. It is very helpful when Choice Band Tyranitar is used on a team with support such as Wish and Rapid Spin, preventing Dugtrio from trapping it.

Team Options
========

Include potential teammates for the Pokemon, as well as descriptions and details as to why.

[SET]
name: Physical SubPunch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Hidden Power Bug / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
ability: Sand Stream
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

With maximum HP EVs, Substitute blocks Seismic Toss from Blissey and allows Tyranitar to avoid getting affected by status.


Rash
Reasonable investment on Speed means that Tyranitar is outrunning much clutter such as Blissey.

Team Options
========

This set is an all-encompassing threat that forces switches under Spikes by always having a coverage move.



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Mixed SubPunch
Toxic cripples a number of its main counters, which can be combined with Taunt. When using this combo, outspeeding Milotic to force Toxic onto it is important. Lum Berry can be used on the Pursuit set to avoid getting put to sleep by Hypnosis from Gengar. Protect allows Tyranitar to gain recovery from Leftovers, scout Choice Band users such as Metagross, and stall damage from status and sand. Counter utilizes physical attacks from Pokemon such as Dugtrio, Claydol, and Flygon.
Thunder Wave
Liechi
Silk Scarf

Checks and Counters
===================

Swampert
Flygon Dugtrio Claydol Donphan
Suicune Milotic Starmie Kingdra Ludicolo
Celebi
Metagross Steelix
Heracross Breloom Machamp Hariyama



[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[wyc2333, 336830]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 
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vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past WCoP Champion
Some initial comments:
DDtar:
1. Remove mention of Claydol and Salamence for Ice Beam on DDtar. Anyone who wanted to deal with those would have used HP bug or Rock Slide. Ice beam hits Claydol for puny damage.
2. Talk about Taunt
3. Also mention Bulky Tar EVs that survive Jolly Dug and Starmie.
4. Notable advantage of DD Double-Edge is that it gives good odds to 2hko Milotic after Rock Slide, which can be useful for mixed offense teams that struggle with it.
5. Mention that DDtar has two quite different roles depending on whether fast or bulky. Fast is more commonly seen on offense and HP grass is also more common on offense, because those tars a) frequently intend to be used early game as wallbreakers b) offensive teams with those frequently do not carry spin and cannot easily take advantage of the bulk for surviving Starmie or Dug, even if they are trying to clean. Bulky and HP Bug is more frequently used to clean on more balanced teams with spin, as these teams can allow DDtar to come in late game at full HP to DD to +2. This isn't mutually exclusive; sometimes you will see bulky ddtar on offense, though its less likely to see fast DDtar or grass DDtar on balance. Triangles can you verify this point?

Pursuit Tar
1. Roar is especially helpful on Forretress teams, which are usually slow paced and desperately need a phazer.

Mixed
1. Remove mention of Focus Punch hitting Milotic, theres just no good way mixtar can hurt milotic.
2. Mention Rock Slide is usually used with Focus Punch so that Blissey can be chipped into the range of softboiled for the opportunity to FP. Brick break more frequently goes with 3 sp.atks.
 
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Some initial comments:
DDtar:
1. Remove mention of Claydol and Salamence for Ice Beam on DDtar. Anyone who wanted to deal with those would have used HP bug or Rock Slide. Ice beam hits Claydol for puny damage.
2. Talk about Taunt
3. Also mention Bulky Tar EVs that survive Jolly Dug and Starmie.
4. Notable advantage of DD Double-Edge is that it gives good odds to 2hko Milotic after Rock Slide, which can be useful for mixed offense teams that struggle with it.
5. Mention that DDtar has two quite different roles depending on whether fast or bulky. Fast is more commonly seen on offense and HP grass is also more common on offense, because those tars a) frequently intend to be used early game as wallbreakers b) offensive teams with those frequently do not carry spin and cannot easily take advantage of the bulk for surviving Starmie or Dug, even if they are trying to clean. Bulky and HP Bug is more frequently used to clean on more balanced teams with spin, as these teams can allow DDtar to come in late game at full HP to DD to +2. This isn't mutually exclusive; sometimes you will see bulky ddtar on offense, though its less likely to see fast DDtar or grass DDtar on balance. Triangles can you verify this point?

Pursuit Tar
1. Roar is especially helpful on Forretress teams, which are usually slow paced and desperately need a phazer.

Mixed
1. Remove mention of Focus Punch hitting Milotic, theres just no good way mixtar can hurt milotic.
2. Mention Rock Slide is usually used with Focus Punch so that Blissey can be chipped into the range of softboiled for the opportunity to FP. Brick break more frequently goes with 3 sp.atks.
i have listed taunt in oo. idk whether i should mention taunt on suit and defensive set in particular, like suit/crunch/taunt/tox and rslide/eq/taunt/tox
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past WCoP Champion
I personally think Taunt is more usable than Protect on DDtar and deserves to be mentioned in the set description even if you don't want to mention it in the set itself. I think no need to mention taunt in the suit and bulky 4atk sets.

Edit: taunt on ddtar isnt just about skarm phazing but also allowing tar to come in on Blissey safely to DD twice
 
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OK there is a lot to fix here, so here goes.

I agree with Vap about DD Tar, in fact I think you should even split DD Tar into 2 separate sets, that look something like this.

Fast DD
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Not sure whether IB should be a slash on this one, I will let someone else comment. But yeah, this set is for a quick setup and being faster than Gar/Star after 1 DD. It's not necessarily a pure win con mon, you can use it to weaken Pert in midgame with HP Grass for say, your DD Mence or something. Leftovers is not really very good on this Tar because Lum is needed for Gar's Wisp and Zap and Bliss Twave.

Tanky DD
Tyranitar @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 88 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Bug / Taunt

The baseline for Ada DD Tar should be max HP imo. This set likes to DD twice to outspeed everything and clean late game, and maxing out bulk gives it the best shot to set up properly. Star Pumps etc. It would probably see more use on balance than all out offense, but it still has its place on the latter because DD Tar is an offensive mon by nature.

Pursuit
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Ice Beam / Fire Blast
- Roar / Hidden Power Grass / Brick Break

The default should be Max HP Max Special attack Modest, for soaking Gengar hits. Obviously with Brick Break you go -Speed and you can put a bit in attack. Ice Beam is quite important for OHKOing dug. The main point of Brick Break is deterring DD Tar from setting up on it, but it's also useful for weakened Bliss. I see Roar as the most important slash in slot 4 because it's good contingency against Curselax and Rachi. Mention Taunt in the set description as an alternative for one of the last 2 slots. If you're running Taunt it's worth speed creeping Skarm. No point in slashing flamethrower anywhere because you actually want to hurt Skarm and you will also never use all 8 fire blast pp in your mons career.

Mixed
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam / Rock Slide / Crunch
- Brick Break / Focus Punch

Don't bother with Lefties here, status removal is so much more important. This set is not going to last a long time whatever it does. Crunch is worthwhile in slot 3 for Gar and also hitting Clay harder than anything else. Personally, I would also say Hasty is better than Naive because you are slightly better vs Gengar and Zapdos. Naive still dies to Dug n shit so yeah. Thats just my opinion tho, will let someone else talk too.

Physical Lefties Focus Punch (not the name I am suggesting for this set lmao)
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Focus Punch
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake / Substitute

This set, also say that with Subpunch you can run HP Grass over Bug for luring Pert. Not a slash but worth a mention. I actually don't know if this should be two different sets since they do sort of play differently - for example, Subpunch is fucked vs Rachi.

CB Tar
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Bug]

- yeah this is fine. I prefer maxing HP to speed as I like CB tar cuz it's a direct Curselax threat, but I understand that maxing Speed is good for Metagross, Milo, and Cune and stuff. So keep max speed as is now.

Mixed Subpunch
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 Spe
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Crunch

This set is a Skarm Bliss Pert TSS killer, and is also different enough to physical sub punch to merit its own thing. I think this set is really good and worth a lot but you might not see it enough right now for it to be anything more than OO. Don't put this in yet.

Other options: Taunt Tox, Double Edge DD, pinch berries, Protect, Counter, T-Wave
 
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OK there is a lot to fix here, so here goes.

I agree with Vap about DD Tar, in fact I think you should even split DD Tar into 2 separate sets, that look something like this.

Fast DD
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Not sure whether IB should be a slash on this one, I will let someone else comment. But yeah, this set is for a quick setup and being faster than Gar/Star after 1 DD. It's not necessarily a pure win con mon, you can use it to weaken Pert in midgame with HP Grass for say, your DD Mence or something. Leftovers is not really very good on this Tar because Lum is needed for Gar's Wisp and Zap and Bliss Twave.

Tanky DD
Tyranitar @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 88 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Bug / Taunt

The baseline for Ada DD Tar should be max HP imo. This set likes to DD twice to outspeed everything and clean late game, and maxing out bulk gives it the best shot to set up properly. Star Pumps etc. It would probably see more use on balance than all out offense, but it still has its place on the latter because DD Tar is an offensive mon by nature.

Pursuit
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Ice Beam / Fire Blast
- Roar / Hidden Power Grass / Brick Break

The default should be Max HP Max Special attack Modest, for soaking Gengar hits. Obviously with Brick Break you go -Speed and you can put a bit in attack. The main point of Brick Break is deterring DD Tar from setting up on it, but it's also useful for weakened Bliss. I see Roar as the most important slash in slot 4 because it's good contingency against Curselax and Rachi. Mention Taunt in the set description as an alternative for one of the last 2 slots. If you're running Taunt it's worth speed creeping Skarm. No point in slashing flamethrower anywhere because you actually want to hurt Skarm and you will also never use all 8 fire blast pp in your mons career.

Mixed
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam / Rock Slide / Crunch
- Brick Break / Focus Punch

Don't bother with Lefties here, status removal is so much more important. This set is not going to last a long time whatever it does. Crunch is worthwhile in slot 3 for Gar and also hitting Clay harder than anything else. Personally, I would also say Hasty is better than Naive because you are slightly better vs Gengar and Zapdos. Naive still dies to Dug n shit so yeah. Thats just my opinion tho, will let someone else talk too.

Physical Lefties Focus Punch (not the name I am suggesting for this set lmao)
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Focus Punch
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Earthquake / Substitute

This set, also say that with Subpunch you can run HP Grass over Bug for luring Pert. Not a slash but worth a mention. I actually don't know if this should be two different sets since they do sort of play differently - for example, Subpunch is fucked vs Rachi.

should roar be included? how to explain 16 spe?

CB Tar
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Bug]

- yeah this is fine. I prefer maxing HP to speed as I like CB tar cuz it's a direct Curselax threat, but I understand that maxing Speed is good for Metagross, Milo, and Cune and stuff. So keep max speed as is now.

Mixed Subpunch
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 Spe
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Crunch

This set is a Skarm Bliss Pert TSS killer, and is also different enough to physical sub punch to merit its own thing. I think this set is really good and worth a lot but you might not see it enough right now for it to be anything more than OO. Don't put this in yet.

Other options: Taunt Tox, Double Edge DD, pinch berries, Protect, Counter
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past WCoP Champion
More comments
DDTar:
1. Splitting DD into two sets is probably what I would do too yeah. I'm for mentioning Ice Beam in the set description but not in the moves itself, because Flygon far less prevalent than Swampert.

Pursuit Tar:
1. A reason why Roar is really good on Pursuit Tar is that Tar is usually a Curselax and Jirachi check on most teams, but Pursuit Tar is the weakest of them all at dealing with them. Also, since Pursuit Tar supports defensive Swampert really well, teams that use that combo will rarely use Metagross too, making the Curselax weak more glaring.
2. Ice Beam is actually a really good move on Pursuit Tar, and whether it is used frequently depends on whether Magneton is present. I agree with the placement of Ice Beam/Fire Blast in third slot. Apart from the obvious Ice Beam killing Dugtrio from full, a less obvious fact is that a) Gengar and Salamence rarely appear on the same team, so if you don't end up pursuiting Gar, Tar can stay at full HP to survive a +1 DD and KO back with Ice Beam in the late game. b) Zapdos can be super threatening, and Ice Beam allows Tar to solo it from full.
3. Yeah, no point slashing flamethrower.

Mixed:
1. I've got a slight preference towards Hasty. Naive lets you survive Jolly Dugtrio with low odds and non-max attack non-CB Metagross, while Hasty turns almost-certain 2hkos from Gengar and Zapdos into good odds to win the 1v1. Those Metagross are rare in comparison to Zapdos though.

Physical Lefties:
1. In my opinion, I would keep this purely as a 4 attacks set, separate from Subpunch, because the 4 attacks set's coverage allows it to be an all-encompassing threat that forces switches under Spikes by always having a coverage move that can hit for lots of damage should the opponent stay in. Relinquishing EQ makes finishing off weakened Tar/Pert/Rachi much harder.
2. I would probably mention somewhere that more speed could be added in this set to creep past Pursuit Tars and those Swamperts that try to outspeed Pursuit Tar themselves, or even bulky Metagross.
3. I don't know about Roar. I guess it can be used if you desperately need another phazer, but I barely see that happening on the teams this Tar finds itself on. DD Tar can be focus-punched to prevent setup, Rachi can be EQ'd, Celebi can be bugged, and Curselax can be punched while resting. Thoughts, Triangles ?

CB Tar:
1. While I would keep max speed max attack adamant in the set, I also agree with what Triangles said, and additionally, having bulky EVs is very helpful when CB Tar is used in a team with Wish support and Rapid Spin, preventing Dugtrio revenge.

Physical Subpunch / Mixed Subpunch:

I'm fine with these being listed as separate sets as long as they are at the end, since they don't see much use and seem quite different to me in operation from even the 4atk physical lefties tar. Especially those that run HP Grass are in the business of lures, while the physical lefties is just about plain chipping.
 
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I'll go more indepth on dif aspects of this analysis later, just wanted to respond to triangles' open invitation for more input

I agree with Vap about DD Tar, in fact I think you should even split DD Tar into 2 separate sets
agreed, the dif is night and day

Fast DD

Not sure whether IB should be a slash on this one, I will let someone else comment.
I think ib is worth a slash because with lum it is able to fill the role of being one of the most dangerous pokemon against the common new age flygon superman teams, since it can then get use out of being able to safely set up on jirachi; these teams are still quite popular and effective as several players such as golden sun have shown us. ib is also a legitimate tool against claydol, and being able to always ohko salamence irregardless of accuracy/intimidate is valuable as well
Leftovers is not really very good on this Tar because Lum is needed for Gar's Wisp and Zap and Bliss Twave.
yep, agreed. shrugging off magneton's twave is also big, it can turn your metagross getting revenged into a serious threat.

it's also important to mention how this ddtar variant is especially vulnerable to dugtrio; dug switches into 3/4 moves and ohkos from full health (aka best case scenario) 75% of the time. tar only has a coinflip chance to ko dug from full health as well. might be even more reason to mention double-edge in the last slot as well, which smashes dug switches in addition to hitting waters hard

lastly I'd mention hasty as an option.

Tanky DD
Tyranitar @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 88 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Bug / Taunt
The baseline for Ada DD Tar should be max HP imo. This set likes to DD twice to outspeed everything and clean late game, and maxing out bulk gives it the best shot to set up properly. Star Pumps etc.
I'd go 248 hp to always survive +1 mence eq, which is a great extra piece of defensive security, as well as living any non-cb metagross mash. with leftovers you also have a good shot (roughly 3/4) at surviving two +1 superachi hp grasses.

for both dd tars I'd mention that unlike support tar variants, they can't be used too much on defense if you actually want to get something going with dd, otherwise what's the point of using dd, and that needs to be factored in. it needs to be meticulous in picking and choosing its spots, unlike the comparatively gung-ho nature of pursuit/mix/4a phys tars. this means its team needs different measures against the pokemon tar usually checks, snorlax being the most notable example.

Mixed
Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
salac is also worth mentioning
 
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is it necessary to include hp bug on fast dd sets to OHKO off mie at +1?
idk what a standard spread of dd ib ttar should be. although its main purpose is to KO gon, there may be some issues with its power. for example:
8 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 319-376 (87.8 - 103.5%)
44- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 299-352 (82.3 - 96.9%)
8 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 319-376 (96 - 113.2%)
8 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 212 SpD Salamence: 255-300 (77 - 90.6%)
if suit tar is required to check rachi, it can run eq combined with twave support.
when it comes to mix tar, I think Hasty is a bit of waste to get murdered by nonCB Flygon EQ and BB from Salamence because of the potential Ice coverage trade. anyway, i will fix it. imo lum berry isn't mandatory bc even if status such as sleep and wow from gar is removed, ttar still can't do much damage to it except crunch.
since sub ttar is infrequently seen, why not list it in oo?
 
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hp bug also lets you check celebi quite well, which is especially useful against the dangerous offensive variant, and hitting claydol quite hard turns ttar into a severe threat against many magdol teams, so yes, it should definitely be included.

for dd ib, I think just a neutral nature will do fine. even if you don't get that 1/4 chance of koing bulky gon, it's not going to ko you back even with 3 layers of spikes, and you severely threaten everything else on its team so you'll keep on chugging. you can also make small spatk investments to improve your ko threshold from the default of the 25% chance to ko from full. 12 spa evs give you 31.3%, 20 evs give you 37.5%, 32 evs give you 43.8%, 40 give you 50%. I wouldn't go (much) higher than the next benchmarks, which is 52 evs giving you a 56.3% chance and 60 evs giving you a 62.5% chance. after that, you need to go up to 80 evs to bump it up to 68.8%, which in my opinion is too much for too little.

also worth mentioning that bulky flygon is not the only relevant set; cleaving through the dangerous offensive variants is definitely valuable given how nasty those can be to the offensive teams this ttar tends to find itself on.

agreed @ mixed set keeping -spdef, as should dd ib tar - I say -spdef and not naive because they should get mentions of rash and naughty, respectively, seeing as they already outspeed most relevant targets with just max speed and a neutral nature (most defensive pokemon, all +speed 100s at +1) and the power boost can be significant, though of course the speed can be of equal importance - that's why the reader should be given the choice. also, it's specifically the hp grass dd set that I believe should consider hasty for pert.

while it's correct that lum is not mandatory on the set, do not discount its importance in shrugging off toxic, which is incredibly useful so the defensive teams it's supposed to bust up can't just easily stall it out. making gar have to wisp twice is also a bigger deal than you seem to think - if it gets hit with 2 ice beams/fire blasts it can no longer switch into attacks it could normally swallow, thus diminishing the threat level of one of the tier's most dangerous pokemon
 
offensive ddtar

aside from ib, bug def should be a slash here (claydol and starmie primarily, also stops pdef celebi from screwing with you). slash double-edge as well instead of just listing it as an oo (stronger attack than eq that threatens to cleave through pert / gon / dol simultaneously). lum's the better item too fwiw. also 20 hp survives 2 slides from aero at full for virtually no loss in attack so prob include that in your spread. naughty / ada should also be mentioned as options for nature bc there are def teams where you'll want the power to bust up pert skarm waters etc over the ability to outrun gengar and starmie. probably mention bulkier spreads for like dd grass tar too (16 hp / 120 def to live dug, 184 hp to tank starmie's hydro etc). also no beam is not a legitimate tool vs claydol (doesn't guarantee the 3hko even vs offensive variants) so prob don't say it is. flygon / ddmence are the uses.

bulky ddtar

slash toxic along with bug / taunt, it's out of fashion but it certainly can contribute. like bkc said 248 hp to live cbmence eq as well as 252+ meta mash, also prob mention 48 def to live ada dug eq (super bulky but it can be worth, like on roro's rmt) as an example.

pursuit

add focus punch / rock slide as slashes somewhere, both moves def have their merits. I also think fthrower should be slashed with fblast (it's def a better option on teams with spinners where killing skarm is less of a priority) but that's just me. prob add a diff spread that runs 140 speed for adamant claydol as an option somewhere.

subpunch and taunttoxic should def be their own sets as well although that's just my opinion. subpunch plays radically differently from standard phys, ditto taunttox vis a vis pursuit and other fat sets. when writing taunt toxic mention the importance of outspeeding milotic to force toxic onto it for tss.

think that that's all for the moment more or less
 
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Claydol: 113-134 (34.8 - 41.3%) -- 72.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

this is the bulkiest claydol you're going to see against the weakest ttar. if you invest for better rolls against gon, which you can absolutely afford to do, then it only gets better. maybe 40 is the sweet spot since in addition to the 50% ohko on max hp gon, it also always koes 0/0 mence and bumps the dol calc up to 36.7 - 43.2%, which is a 98.7% to 3hko. however, even if you don't go for this investment, how is the damage from that original calc not a legitimate tool? this is not insignificant damage. it can be put to use in a number of ways, such as playing the long game for tar to sweep itself or dol unable to take a hit from superachi/zapdos.

I agree 20 hp is a good investment. 184 hp also lives dug fwiw.

I also agree 48 def is a good investment on fat ddtar. leeway vs mence is nice too. incidentally, 48 spdef ensures +1 superachi will never 2hko through lefties.
 

vapicuno

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My opposition to mentioning Ice beam hitting Claydol and Salamence is not that BKC's points are invalid but rather that when an alternative to a standard HP bug spread is mentioned, I think a reader would be looking for what is the differential is. Since Bug already hits dol, I didn't see it worth mentioning. I also take the view that the analyses are about making conscious team choices as opposed to move choices in battles, and I don't know about you guys, but I haven't personally made the conscious decision to use Ice Beam on Tar primarily because I wanted to cover the Intimidate. I don't have particularly strong opinions on including those mons as additional coverage to Flygon though.
 
I agree, it's more that ice beam has legitimate additional use outside of handling flygon; of course that's the real reason you use it, but it's not like it's insignificant outside of that. if their best ddtar counter is claydol, which is not uncommon, you have something you can meaningfully do against it. invalidating mence intimidating it down to live rock slide is also notable since that scenario might very well come up given how this ttar uses its speed as a way to immediately threaten offense. these are important matchups ttar is commonly faced with. thus, it is absolutely worth mentioning that, while its main function is something else, ib is still able to do something in these others.
 

vapicuno

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while its main function is something else, ib is still able to do something in these others.
Yeah, thats the crux of it, I think this would be the best phrasing.
 
for fast dd ttar
252 Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 147-174 (42.4 - 50.2%)
252 Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 147-174 (42.1 - 49.8%)
if hasty should be considered on the dd grass set while rash and naughty should be considered on the dd ib set, why not consider lonely/mild if power is wanted to bust up pert skarm waters etc?
for bulky dd ttar
208+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Tyranitar: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Tyranitar: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Tyranitar: 341-402 (84.4 - 99.5%)
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 343-404 (85.1 - 100.2%)
 
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vapicuno

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While I am not the most familiar with ddtar EVs, for bulky ddtar, using simultaneous 100% survival of ada bulk on tar barring crit and 200 speed, you will find that without boosts, the chances of koing bulkless zap and ddmence is heavily reduced. You also have a lower roll to 1hko non defense Claydol at +2, and 2hko relaxed Claydol at +1 for the rock weak teams. Also lower chances to 1hko protect Meta at +2.
 
252 Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 147-174 (42.4 - 50.2%)
this calc is vs ttar with a 30 defense iv, which you wouldn't have even on hp grass sets because in your attempt to not lose 1 point of attack, you now have to invest 12 more evs for that aero benchmark and as a result wind up losing even more. with a 31 defense iv, the calc looks like this:

252 Atk Choice Band Aerodactyl Rock Slide vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 146-172 (42.1 - 49.7%)

if hasty should be considered on the dd grass set while rash and naughty should be considered on the dd ib set, why not consider lonely/mild if power is wanted to bust up pert skarm waters etc?
yes, lonely would be fine on dd grass ttar. however, you yourself mentioned not liking mild (or -def) on mixtar because of flygon eq/mence brick break, and I agreed

for bulky dd ttar
252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Tyranitar: 346-408 (85.6 - 100.9%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Tyranitar: 341-402 (84.4 - 99.5%)
good call - I checked and the 252/48 calc must've been done against ada max dug with a 30 attack iv, because tar would in fact live that. however, you only need 56 defense to survive
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 343-404 (85.1 - 100.2%)
this is also with a 30 defense iv. with 31, it looks like this:

252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 341-402 (84.6 - 99.7%)
 

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