Uber/OU tier list

[Surgo]

I made this and hammered it out with some opinions from #insidescoop. I'd say those of us there were pretty qualified to tell what's OU and what's not. So here's what we came up with:
The list!

Uber:
Mewtwo
Mew
Wobbuffet
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Latias
Latios
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Deoxys (all forms)
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Manaphy
Darkrai
Arceus

Debated uber:
Tyranitar
Celebi

OU:
Slowbro
Gengar
Weezing
Starmie (4 gens in a row!)
Gyarados
Aerodactyl
Dragonite
Heracross
Skarmory
Donphan
Blissey
Swampert
Breloom
Salamence
Metagross
Jirachi
Infernape
Bronzong
Garchomp
Lucario
Hippowdon
Weavile
Magnezone
Rhyperior
Tangrowth
Electivire
Togekiss
Gliscor
Porygon-Z
Dusknoir
Azelf
Heatran
Cresselia

Things you'd expect in OU but I'd say are BL right now:
Alakazam
Marowak
Zapdos
Suicune
Raikou
Gallade

I really want to finish this uber debate on Manaphy, though we can leave Tyranitar for now. I'm also not tackling that whole BL can of worms yet as that requires a lot of testing obviously.

 

[Surgo]

This is what I feel I'm getting consensus on start in uber, test in OU on Competitor.
Tyranitar: start in OU, see what happens.

 

[GreenPikachu]

is snorlax really not going to be used in dp or was that just an oversight on your part?

also, i agree with manaphy being Uber and Tyranitar being OU when first starting off, and testing further.


edit: also hippowdon? yes? no? i thought it was pretty popular

 

[Steelicks]

no sceptile?

 

[Ecnemalas]

Tyranitar still has counters, I haven't had too much trouble facing them and Swampert from what I can tell still stops it.

 

[Misty]

fyi if you disagree with this tier list it's preferred that you do it on irc

 

[Synre]

Think I agree with everything now that Hippowdon is listed and Jolteon is not


It's funny how many DP Pokemon are on that list, although a lot of them are evolutions of old Pokemon I guess.

 

[Seph]

Good list! I pretty much agree with everything on the there. I also agree with surgo about manaphy starting in ubers and tar starting in OU since I'm not sure about it's status yet.

 

[evan]

I've seen a ridiculous amount of Forretress on Shoddy Battle that I'm really surprised to not see it here. Honestly last night it felt that every other team had one. More common than TTar at least.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Well, I guess everything is pretty much what I expected.. I dont really see the need for the sudden u-turn in policy though.

Especially the need to seperate OU from BLs or UUs or whatever..

Have a nice day.

 

[Aeolus]

awesome. Loving the way Manaphy and Tyranitar are being handled.

 

[Mekkah]

Gengar made OU 4 gens in a row as well. =p

 

[Kumar]

lists fine. hope ttar gets shafted to uber, i hate the bastard.
edit: celebi too

 

[chaos]

Why was discussion on this closed? The general way of doing this stuff is to get a base started in here and then to eventually migrate it to the masses for criticism.

 

[Hipmonlee]

Ok so is battling rules discussion allowed in Stark now or what?

Have a nice day.

 

[X-Act]

Where should discussion about this list take place? Here or on mIRC?

 

[chaos]

Discussion is now moved to the Stark Mountain sticky.

 

[Misty]

Since that thread has been closed, I'm re-opening this one.

 

[Jibaku]

I'd go with Manaphy start in OU, test in competitor.

Celebi shouldn't even even be in debatable IMO. It should just be OU. It just has too many counters...even if it has some sort of crazy way of dealing with them.

 

[CT20]

I think Vaporeon should be listed as OU, it makes an excellent counter to Gyarados considering that it is resistant to Waterfall, and can hit back with a strong HP Electric. Wish support is also a bit more useful than it was in ADV, since Rest isn't used as much.

 

[alex]

On that note, why are our tiers decided solely by usage instead of power? It should at least be a combination if not just power; yes, the two tend to walk hand-in-hand but there are occasional exceptions (such as the one CT20 just posted above me, and others like Dragonite and DP Machamp).

Also, Manaphy is uber. Calm Mind Blissey is the only reliable counter to Tail Glow/Surf/Ice Beam/Energy Ball. A Ludicolo designed specifically to beat Manaphy might have a chance but I doubt it.

So I guess we should all just use CM Blissey and start Manaphy in OU because that'd make more sense than leaving it ubers. Right?

 

[Jibaku]

Also, Manaphy is uber. Calm Mind Blissey is the only reliable counter to Tail Glow/Surf/Ice Beam/Energy Ball. A Ludicolo designed specifically to beat Manaphy might have a chance but I doubt it.

I don't know about you, but could the reason why Manaphy is uber is because nobody uses CMBliss? If CMBliss was like the standard set then I pretty much guarantee Manaphy won't be uber. But enough about the CMBliss.

Ludicolo counters it with ease. It doesn't take much from a Tail Glowed Ice Beam, seeds Manaphy, and then Energy Balls it to death. Raikou can beat it without a problem. Regice with a nice amount of special attack EVs also has no problems defeating Manaphy. You should also look at its other stats. Base 100 speed is rather mediocre for a Tail Glow sweeper. Base 100 SA will force you to Tail Glow at least twice before doing a serious threat. Base 100 Defenses are rather frail when you put all of its EVs into Defenses. You can Hydrarest, but it doesn't stop it from its counters. Manaphy's lack of resistances means he won't be getting into stuff easy. Abomasnow can take a Tail Glowed Ice Beam and Wood hammer/Energy Ball Manaphy into oblivion. He can also seed Manaphy if needed

Random things like Magnezone can also counter it in a pinch. Celebi can survive a Tail Glowed Ice Beam and OHKO Manaphy with Leaf Storm.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

I don't know why Rayquaza is uber if we're all using Ice Beam.

 

[Jibaku]

I don't know why Rayquaza is uber if we're all using Ice Beam.

Even with an SR weak, Rayquaza setting up happens to be more dangerous than Manaphy setting up.

 

[Peterko]

quite some time ago, when there was too much garchomp, gyarados, tyranitar and rhyperior hype manaphy was kinda unnoticed, but to be honest, it scared me as soon as I saw it...I´m a blissey hater, so I ´ve tried to find other things that could counter tail glow manaphy, which means switch in on a glow, take a hit or two and threaten it (or outspeed and 1hko)...this list is very short:

abomasnow, ludicolo (type, leech seed, grass stab), venusaur (can take a TG ice beam and answer with overgrow leaf storm), roserade (scarf LS), sceptile (LS), sheimi, bellossom (oh well), tentacruel (mirror coat lol), (not really) starmie

as you see, very few of these if any are considered OU, although the first 3 or 4 are quite usable, but you´re very limited...that´s why I´m for manaphy = uber

tyranitar OU, because the pkmn that are meant to counter it all (mostly) do it on the physical side and don´t have sandstorm problems, e.g. hippowdon, rhyperior, donphan, swampert etc.