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Ubers CCAT: Stage 3 - Teammates

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Rain or Sun balance i think are the best for Deoxys-A (Or even both Groudon and Kyogre?) i think the best way to play Deoxys is as a wall breaker and late game clean up if he is alive still. Nothing can really switch into Deoxys so the team needs to be able to make up for the lack of defense so this team should be defensive in design so that offense just doesn't run all over it.
Using things like ThunderWave Kyogre that bluffs Specs/Scarf to lure in scarfers will make it easier for Deoxys to set up. Also using Ferrothorn will be optimal because of the residual damage that can be built up.
Groudon is also a strong member as he can set up SR and wall many of the biggest counters to Deoxys apart from Girantina-O, which is really Deoxys most common counter. Running something like Heatran to counter Girantina would also be very useful, it also has SR, Toxic, Will 'O' Wisp and Lava Plume for more residual damage.

To sum up the ideas in this post, because it is all over the place:
Sun or Rain would be good, but i can see it being useful by going for both as both Groudon and Kyogre work well with Deoxys.
The Team should be Bulky enough to tanky for Deoxys and have residual damage to weaken the counters to Deoxys, but should also have the offense to take advantage of Deoxys incredible wall breaking prowess.

TLDR: Balance is the best team comp imo. But Semi Stall would also work.
 
Just when I thought the OU CCAT was bad enough, I start reading about creating a stall team with Deo-A. I could bet 95% of the people asking for a stall-based team with Deo-A on it, hasn't played stall nor Deoxys-A.
 
I agree with Fireburn and Locoghoul here. The only way Deoxys-A is coming in is after something else dies and that is the exact opposite of what stall wants to have happen. The team has to be, in some way, offensive in order for Deoxys-A to be more than just dead weight. A hyper offensive team will generally have few if any safe switch-ins to the pokes likely to set up in Deoxys-A's face after a Psycho Boost or a Superpower.

I believe the way to go is definitely a bulky offensive team. This lets us have 1 or two defensive pokes capable of stopping powerhouses that can set up on Deoxys after stat drops while making the loss of an individual poke less damning than if we were a stall-based team.
 
The only way Deoxys-A is coming in is after something else dies and that is the exact opposite of what stall wants to have happen.
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You know we could also use a Forretress or Scizor with a scouting move <.<., they just happen to be slow enough to provide "free" switches.
 
Deoxys main threat is strong priority attackers right?
Well a bulky steel Arceus resists all of the most common types of priority in ubers and can will-o-wisp them to cripple them. He also resists Rayquaza's and Giratina-O's dragon type stab as well making him a good counter, and with 120/120/120 defenses, steel typing and access to recover he has a lot of staying power.
Just a thought...
 
locoghoul said:
Just when I thought the OU CCAT was bad enough, I start reading about creating a stall team with Deo-A. I could bet 95% of the people asking for a stall-based team with Deo-A on it, hasn't played stall nor Deoxys-A.
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If you are referring this to my post, I played Uber stall for quite some time now. I tried Deoxys-A and it did just fine in my team. Deoxys-A can switch in on non-attacking moves which are plenty enough, Calm Mind, Recover, Nasty Plot, Toxic, Leech Seed and a few others. Specially oriented Arceus almost always have both Calm Mind and Recover. This is the time Deoxys-A can come in and OHKO it.

Otherwise stall can just sack something and let Deoxys-A come in next turn. Assuming Deoxys-A gets in safely, it can beat Dark, Steel and Fighting Arceus, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Dialga, Shaymin-S, Heatran all extremely annoying to stall teams. Or just lead with Deoxys-A in the stall team to scare away Groudon(Psycho Boost) and Dialga(Superpower kills with Attack EVs).
 
Let's not try to argue whether it sucks in stall, and find a more suitable team for it :P Only posting to say Deoxys-A sometimes does work over the last member in stall teams for the sake of dealing with stall breakers.
 
Hawkstar said:
Now I will make my case for Ice Beam. Shadow Ball doesn't really deal with "Psychics" but rather "The Psychic", as in Mewtwo. Mewtwo takes around 66% from Psycho Boost with an offensive set, but most of the time that's not necessary if we decide to use something like ScarfOgre. The other Psychic-type I can think of is Lugia, which Ice Beam hits harder. Both Giratina formes are also hit harder, but no one would keep Deo-A in on Giratina-O and not even Psycho Boost OHKOes Giratina.

As for why we should use Ice Beam, it lets us use that where we would normally need Psycho Boost. The biggest examples are Groudon, Shaymin-S sans Scarf, or something like CB Zekrom that is Outrage locked or a SubKrom caught without a Sub. Normally, we'd have to Psycho Boost and switch out, but with Ice Beam, we can simply OHKO them without lowering our Sp. Atk. and continue on sweeping. Then there's the fact that there's nothing 4x weak to Ghost, so there's nothing at all that Shadow Ball hits harder than Psycho Boost but Mewtwo, Psychic Arceus, and Lugia. Dark-types too, but you'd rather just have them switch into Psycho Boost so you don't waste 10% health hitting them with an NVE attack.

If Mewtwo turns out to be a large threat to the team in general, then Shadow Ball would be superior, but otherwise I say go with Ice Beam.
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toybox said:
Hawkstar makes a great case about Ice Beam and I agree with everything he said, but according to usage stats Mewtwo is used more than Zekrom and Lugia (still 2HKOed by Shadow Ball) combined. The biggest prop is being able to hit Groudon with no drawbacks, but no sane Groudon is staying in on Deoxys-A, and you'll likely hit the switch in for big damage with Psycho Boost. Being able to hit the more common threat makes Shadow Ball the preferable option imo, but like you said, if Mewtwo is dealt with by the rest of the team then Ice Beam is the more viable choice.
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prem said:
lastly i propose the spread gets changed to 72 atk / 252 spa / 184 spe naive (spe+, spdef-). this lets deo-a outspeed modest scarf base 90s (anything faster is normally nonexistant or cannot be outspeed even with the current spread). the 72 attack evs allow deo-a superpower to nearly always OHKO 0 hp dialga, while giving a nice boost to its extremespeed.
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I will have to run some calcs, and come back to you. The current spread outspeeds 394s, and packs 504 Special Attack to wreck shit up with STAB Psycho Boost. I'll run some calcs, look for my next post.



Also, it seems we are leaning towards Bulky Offense with some Balanced touches. I'm gonna let you discuss this for a few more hours, and then we will move on to teammates!
 
I would say a semi-stall team or balanced team. For a sweep, Deo-A requires:
1) Entry hazards(lots of them)
2) Priority users gone.

A balanced or semi-stall team can achieve this.
 
I know the prospect of Deoxys-A in stall seems really fantastic and all but lets not build castles in air shall we ? Stall is just not the right environment for Deoxys-A since a stall team would much rather use a Scarf user like Palkia IMO, than Deoxys-A.

Anyways, personally I feel a bulky stall / semistall (whatever you care to call it) would be the team of my choice for Deoxys-A along with hazardstacking. Deoxys-A is the classic hit and run Pokemon as everyone else said and using hazards to prevent opponent from pivoting as well as using U-Turn or Volt Switch users like Zekrom, Scizor seems a good idea to me. Also bulky offense teams can deal with priority users fairly easily, which is one hurdle Deoxys-A as well as most Hyper Offense team fails to overcome.
 
Time's up!

It has been decided, our team is going to be Bulky Offensive/Balanced!


Now, we move to the more exciting part; TEAMMATES.
Share your thoughts who you think are the best teammates for our Forgotten Star, Deoxys-A, and post their sets.


Ready, set, GO
 
A Bulky Offence or an All-Out, there is no other option imo. Stall team need their scarfer to do something like taking Water Spout or shit like that, we'll just waste another slot if we use a stall, and it wouldnt be easy to check so many threat with 4 slot, too difficult for a CCAT. Also, a Standard Offence cant back up Deoxys, we'll just end with a random offense who sac Deoxys after 1 kill. Finally, I guess we'll chose the BO style since an AO isnt really well know and most of the people are used to use this style in the other tier.

Edit : meh. Ok so I guess we already add StallCeus, he's too good and can be easily the main Pokemon of our defensive core, I think we should wait for the other Pokemon to decide on his type. The main issue with Deo-A is priority and Scarfer, the last can be checked by smart switch, but we need something for the first. ScarfTerra can help here, he can check EK/Ray's ES, is the fastest Scarfer (Mewtwo/Skymin/Darkrai arent common with this item) and can be a late game if we play right our card. Gira-o's SS isnt the most difficult thing to take, Dialga maybe, can setup SR and help with ScarfOgre.
 
Go10 do you mean this Arceus?
Arceus @ Leftovers
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Return
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar / Perish Song
 
I nominate Choice Scarf Terrakion. Deo-A's worst enemy is priority (take your pick, they all screw him up), and Terrakion was made for taking priority in Ubers bar the rare Scizor BP. As you guys all know, its an awesome check EDIT: EK and Steel (did not know CM took that little, the importance of calcs :/) Arceus forms, while it honestly has trouble taking out Giratina-O. Its key base 108 Speed lets it outspeed most of the tier already, taking out opponents when Deoxys goes down or can't quite pull off the sweep just yet.
 
Not at all Furai, I mean, Arceus should be played with some speed (at least 160, we need to outspeed Terrakion LO, Rayquaza and Palkia). Anyway, imo, we have to play him in a support set, but its too early for that, we just have to keep a slot for him then decide on his type later.

@Waterwarrior : You're wrong, the only type Terrakion can check is the EK and Steel (I mean, the common type obviously), he doesnt check at all the other version, every CM take less than 50% on Stone Edge/Close Combat. If you want something to check CMceus, ScarfKrom is the best thing here as Bolt Strike 2hko the full HP version and he can take a Judgement. As I said in my previous post, I nominate Arceus (mainly), Terrakion and Dialga.
 
As I said in my previous post, a u-turner/volt switcher (zekrom ?_?) could be nice so deoxys can come in and kill something more often.
 
I nominate Forretress. He supplies hazards, offers free switches and momentum with volt switch, and sets up hazards for Deoxys-a. His ability to do a-lot-in-one package makes him a fine choice for an essentially 5 man team (since Deoxys-a is probably not gettng action until late game or leading and dying, besides he offers no synergy what so ever D:).
 
I think Skarmory is a good choice because it stops the Extremekiller cold and otherwise resists all priority seen in Ubers. And it makes an excellent dragon resist and ground immune. It does not have the benefit of Volt Switch, but it's more durable than forry and has better typing. Also, Skarm is a great phazer and isn't ever setup bait.

I also think Scarfrai could possibly help Deoxys by sleeping a threat and tricking a scarf onto another.

Other than that, I like the suggestion of Dialga. Deoxys needs some teammates that can take hits as they switch in and deal damage. Also, from my experience, I am in love with the combination of Dialga and Skarmory, especially with a Kyogre running alongside. For this team I'd probably run a bulky CM Kyogre.

So that was kind of a lot of suggestions.

I think a core of Dialga/Skarm with Kyogre support would be good, in short. Dialga is, in my opinion, one of the poster children of Bulky Offense because of its great typing and the virtual impossibility of just straight-up killing it with a single attack, and CM Kyogre is kinda frightening, even for something like Palkia.
 
First of all we need to look at the most common enemies of Deoxys-A:

Scizor and Metagross (can checkmate you with Bullet Punch or Pursuit, former loathes Psycho Boost though).
Physical Arceus and Rayquaza (Extremespeed).
Giratina-O (Shadow Sneak.)
Scarfers. The main ones are Kyogre, Palkia, and Terrakion kind of.

I'd like to propose this as a way to start off:

Arceus @ Spooky Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Judgment
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roar / Perish Song

This set easily takes Terrakion, Scizor, Metagross, most Rayquaza, and any physical non Ghost Arceus. It can also use Roar to abuse the entry hazards that will also go toward helping Deoxys-A, and it can take hits from Scarf Palkia as long as its not a STAB Water attack in the rain. It also walls most Giratina-O as Sneak only does like 35% lol, so you can burn it and laugh in its face. It also takes care of our spinblocker, which we will need if we want entry hazards.

Play with the EVs if you'd like, but you should at least have enough Speed to outrun Garchomp (and probably LO Terrakion but Ghost Arceus walls the crap out of it anyway) minimum.

I also support Forretress as a teammate because he provides all the hazards (SR and Spikes) we need and also offers Steel-typing, Spinning, and a slow Volt Switch to help get Deoxys-A in to nuke stuff.

That leaves Kyogre, which is probably going to require some sort of Palkia, but we can decide what to do about him once we've got the rest of our core figured out.
 
I nominate

Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Trait: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Dark Void
-Dark Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Nasty Plot

While, ironically, this set can't really handle Mewtwo (because Aura Sphere is amazing) it can handle either Giratina forme very nicely and both are a quite a problem for our main man Deoxys with that insta-OHKO from Shadow Sneak. The trick scarf has merit but serves the same revenge-killer function and redundancy doesn't seem necessary in that department.
 
Vratix said:
I nominate

Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Trait: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Dark Void
-Dark Pulse
-Focus Blast
-Nasty Plot

While, ironically, this set can't really handle Mewtwo (because Aura Sphere is amazing) it can handle either Giratina forme very nicely and both are a quite a problem for our main man Deoxys with that insta-OHKO from Shadow Sneak. The trick scarf has merit but serves the same revenge-killer function and redundancy doesn't seem necessary in that department.
Click to expand...

If you want to lure Mewtwo then use Chople Berry instead. ;)
 
Just a quick chiming in here, but wouldn't Scarfed Jirachi be a great partner to pair with Deo-A? It can absorb extremespeeds, trick its Scarf onto difficult pokemon, beat SD Rayquaza with Ice Punch and pivot vs. threats that might try to set up on a -2 Deo-A like CM Mewtwo.
 
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