Metagame Ubers Metagame and Set Discussion v1 - Uncharted Territory

Aberforth

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Ubers Leader

- Discussion should only be focused around SV Ubers and its metagame. No national dex stuff.
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Metagame discussion should go here. Post your thoughts on the post ban metagame and any effective sets or trends you have noticed!
 

FatFighter2

zacian waifu :flushed:
is a Tiering Contributoris a Past SCL Champion
After some playing here are some of my initial thoughts

The powercreep is absolutely ridiculous this gen with so much crazy new pokemon. Even with a lot of mons returning, games often involve 10+ SV mons on both sides.

Tera is better than I thought and may not have to be banned. It actually makes battles pretty interesting without feeling too busted.

Cylclizar should be banned very soon. Regen plus its special move to make a sub and bp out is pretty busted. ILoveMashing❤ has a great team
showing it off.

Koraidon is in my humble opinion the best offensive threat in the metagame. Tera fire is incredible, and scarf, band, lorb sd or flame charge (whatever you want) is all great. One of its better checks is actually Skeledirge

Miraidon
(Specs, CM) is good as well but has some tough checks and walls in Ting lu and Clodsire

Chien Pao
(SD) and Flutter Mane (mostly CM) are other huge threats. Iron Bundle has been a letdown for me.

Corviknight is still good.

All forms of playstyles seem viable as of now, but HO screens especially seems quite strong. Not sure how well stall can hang in here though with the power flying around

So far its been better than I've expected!
 

Mashing

Formerly ILoveMashing❤
Its pretty self explanatory that on day one ho is at its strongest and finding the right "cheese" to use

That said being said screens as a whole seems very unbalanced since it allows threats such as SD flame charge Miraidon to sweep offensive teams, and also let Chien-Pao heavily threaten stall teams. Although thats one factor to consider in building a ho or to play against it there is also another thing to consider: The move Shed Tail

What Shed Tail does is that it allows Cyclizar to make a sub and bp it right away to one of your threats: this, in an extremely offensive metagame can allow for not just free switchins to sweepers but also allow you to set up screens extremely easily.

https://pokepast.es/822f15374d4d7c28 V1

Mausehold: Nuke.


Mausehold role is that it serves a role of a hazards remover by tidy up but also one of a deadly sweeper since it once it gets going and there are no resists left this little mouse will ohko every member of your team even the bulkiest of walls

https://pokepast.es/0146d9f0c1e66af2 V2

Here is an example of a ho with all the mechanics listed above, a lot of threats that can end a game in one turn such as:

Chien-Pao: The Stall Killer

Chien-Pao job is to break common stall cores of Corv, Scream Tail, Pex, Skrilledge and Cloggsire thanks to screens giving it a deceptively decent bulk (plus the sub from cyclizar) which it can abuse to threaten ohkos on all stall threats with its double stab plus tera electric

Miraidon: The Engine

On this team Miraidon has a specialized set: CM, Parabolic Charge, Dragon Pulse and Agility. this makes Miraidon an extraordinary sweeper that can clean any weakeaned team with extreme much ease. One thing to note is that the move Parabolic Charge works like an electric type draining kiss, meaning that Miraidon will always stay healthy as long as it can attack.

Koraidon: The Charger

Koraidon is probably the most efective breaker on the tier RN with its amazing 3 stabs (counting fire with the sun) which allows him to threaten any type of team structure with the simple moveset of Outrage, Flame Charge, SD and Collision Course

Flutter Mane: The Shadow

Flutter Mane's role is simple: get in with the sub from Cyclizar or from Parting Shot from Grimsnarl and click Calm Mind and click away, dual stab is not resisted by anything in the tier, plus the adition of Tera Fire/ Mystical fire just rounds up the coverage nicely. also, energy boost allows it to be a potential revenge killer for any boosted threat.
 
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Garrett

Party rockers in the house tonight
is a Pre-Contributor
There is nothing I have found funnier in watching a small amount of replays than the mind games surrounding Tera Fairy with the box legends and a couple other mons in (ultimately) futile attempts. I give Tera about 2 weeks.

Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Make It Rain
- Dazzling Gleam / Thunderbolt

I found this idea funny because this has the ability to sub on Clodsire (you can EV more specifically if you fear 2 Chilling Waters breaking the sub), and maintain an Air Balloon when Corviknight U-Turns on you. This has 4MSS with coverage (being potentially walled by a rare Chien-Pao) but also hits like a truck with Make It Rain and Gleam for Dragons or Thunderbolt for Corviknight. You can probably EV specifically for the Masquerain/Spidops suicide webs leads as well.
 

Fc

Waiting for something to happen?
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Ubers Leader
kinda late so I'll give quick thoughts day 1.

:sv/miraidon: :sv/iron-valiant:
Miraidon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Volt Switch
- Overheat

Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy / Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Tera Blast
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off

This core seems super powerful, Iron Valiant with a speed boost and at +2 can kinda drop everything, especially w tera. Both can mix up their tera types but I feel like just going all in on powerful stabs is good, miraidon can also use a bunch of other sets like cm, scarf, boots, etc.

:sv/slowking: :sv/baxcalibur:
Slowking @ Icy Rock
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Chilly Reception
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Thunder Wave

Baxcalibur @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Glaive Rush
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake

Just p funny, Snow boosting the defense of Ice-types might have a legit use if scarf on the cover legends isn't huge so the new pseudo can sweep, this dragon move is broken. As strong as Outrage but the drawback is taking 2x damage next turn, when you outspeed everything and have a defense boost it's not bad.

:sv/flutter-mane:
Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Power Gem
- Thunderbolt

OR

Flutter Mane @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Tera Blast / Pain Split

This thing is crazy, one of the biggest offenders of tera imo just because it can blow through the limited special walls / fairy resists we have like Iron Treads with Tera Ground, and pex is useless now so it can just chip that and set up.

:sv/maushold-four:
Maushold-Four @ Wide Lens
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tidy Up
- Population Bomb
- Tera Blast
- Beat Up / Bite

Trust the vision. Tidy Up is a super good move and hitting 10 times is fire.

:sv/ceruledge:
Ceruledge @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bitter Blade
- Tera Blast
- Shadow Sneak

One of the better anti-fat Pokemon I think, Tera Ghost being necessary is a little restricting but doable, can use Shadow Claw if you're scared. Healing off a 90 bp move with 125 attack is kinda crazy, and it has Flash Fire so Koraidon can only hit it with Dragon moves, definitely can see this being used more


:sv/chien-pao:
Chien-Pao @ Life Orb
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Crunch

OR

Chien-Pao @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Shard
- Crunch
- Icicle Crash
- Sacred Sword

I think Chien-Pao is super scary, ties w the cover legends and Flutter Mane but has Ice Shard to pick them all off, insanely strong and pressures the grounds hard for teammates like Mirai.

:sv/ting-lu: :sv/corviknight: :sv/iron-treads: :sv/skeledirge:
These 4 feel like the big defensive pillars that aren't full stall like Clodsire. Ting-Lu is one of the only good Ground-types we got that synergizes with things pretty well, just has no recovery. I could see Hippowdon maybe making a place in the tier but it needs time. I like Iron Treads quite a bit, spin rocks volt knock and it resists Miraidon STABs, just has to watch Specs Overheat. Corv is one of the few good Defog users that are alive and it has U-turn too. Skeledirge is probably the best Koraidon check that isn't Toxapex, having Slack Off and Unaware while being Fire Ghost and having a cool move that raises Sp.Atk 100% of the time w a decent BP.

:sv/gholdengo: :sv/palafin-hero:
Could definitely see these 2 having success too, quite strong stats and moves, just underexplored naturally after only a few hours.

:sv/glimmora:
This shit is so annoying, the ability is broken and it def can take advantage of offensive no poison structures that are running around.


Chi-Yu, Roaring Moon, Kingambit, the moths, Blissey, Dudunsparce, and Cyclizar are also all def viable, just on the lower end. I don't think the sub pass thing is 100% broken yet, but I may be convinced later on. It wasn't implemented right when I tried, but Revival Blessing might break Pawmot too. I think Dragapult has a place outrunning all the legends and being p strong overall, meanwhile Iron Bundle and Wo-Chien have been somewhat underwhelming. Mirai > Korai btw. Tera looks like it might be broken but I'm willing to give it some time, people gotta figure out how to build in this meta but it seems a little overtuned because of the uncertainty of when it'll go off instead of being locked to one identifiable mon.
 
day 1 thoughts:

screens broken
tera broken
scarf Shed Tail cyclizar is something to watch out for. potentially broken
koraidon best / most threatening sweeper (sd, bulk up. choice sets also good)
stall is NOT dead (great tusk, scream tail, Skeledirge, clodsire are the breathing life of SV stall. on a side note, hail stall is good too, but a bit harder to pull-off)
 
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I had a nice ladder run on my late night off work before that shit got ruined since my internet decided to die out of nowhere, peaked at #2 and if not for that I probably would still be top 5 but oh well, I'm still fairly high. Since I can't fall asleep at 6 AM despite having to be up in about 4 hours for work, I may as well post my initial thoughts on this meta cause it's quite a fun meta, if a bit busted.



Screens in general are absolutely busted, it's genuinely unfunny how easily you can simply set them up and abuse set-up sweepers behind them with ease. SD + Flame Koraidon, CM + Agility Miraidon, Flutter Mane, Chein-Pao, Moody Scovillain, Ceruledge, etc etc. All of these can very easily spiral out of control with just screens alone and you can easily flowchart sequences that can really push you towards an easy win. I'm sure there's even more set-up mons you can throw on a team and you'll generally perform under screens so long as you can simply abuse the Dragons for set-up, shouldn't be hard if you simply run Flutter Mane like imo you should on basically any screens or HO in general since it's just too good for HO to pass up on. I'm sure as people explore and "solve" the meta and certain aspects get looked at, screens will sort of become manageable but only time will tell. Speaking of Scovillain...



Scovillain @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower

This is so damn annoying to face. Idt it's broken per se, but behind screens this can easily abuse free turns on fatter stuff with no problems. Even Unaware mons are going to get annoyed against this as this thing can sorta just sit there and waste PP because it means less PP for something else in the back to have to deal with, again which is easy to abuse, and given Moody almost nothing else wants to deal with it either. Toxapex is probably the only long-term means to answer it and that can be easily patched in the builder. Seriously, this thing seems to be underappreciated, give it a whirl when you get a chance. Also, feel free to actually experiment with EVs, I'm sure someone can break this mon by playing around with them lol.



Cyclizar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shed Tail
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Again, not particularly broken or anything, but this mon is pretty legit. It kinda lives and dies by aggressive play, but given the partners you naturally wanna pair this with you can live with that, and you'd be surprised how easy it is to pull this off 2-3 times in a game so long as you literally don't just throw this mon away thanks to Regen. Neat part is it's not even a bad Scarfer in its own right, as it's fairly fast and U-Turn + Knock if always good, though it's a bit weak so it's not a world beater or anything like that, don't sleep on this mon if you have remotely any predicting skills or if you simply wanna play aggressively cause this mon rewards good aggressive play like no other.



To absolutely no one's surprise, the cover legends are in the top 3 best mons of the entire metagame. It's my believe that any good teams within this meta should absolutely run at minimum 2 of these 3 outside of hard stall. I do think Miraidon is more threatening on paper than in practice, but it is still certainly an S-Rank threat imo. Koraidon steals the show for best meta mon though, it's actually insane just how threatening of a mon it is and I think my experience as well as others' speak for themselves. If I had to rank these 3 in order of viability, Koraidon > Flutter Mane > Miraidon. Flutter Mane is fairly simplistic, but you can very easily mix and match Tera types to your heart's content with it because no matter what it will put in work game-in and game-out. Fairy, Ghost for STABs, or Ground, Fire for coverage, and I'm sure you can probably use other types too, like Normal to surprise other Flutter Manes trying to revenge yours. As for the cover legends, I think they'll end up having a nice variety of sets to choose from between set-up sets (with either SD/CM or Agility, I think running both at least on Miraidon is the wave on HO), Choiced sets, good ol' LO which seems particularly good on Miraidon since LO Draco actually really hurts & you don't kill yourself with recoil unlike Koraidon, or just HDB pivot sets. I do wanna squeeze a little tidbit in here tho cause I've seen no Duggy for Miraidon so far, but IF ppl start running Dug to trap that, Ghost Tera Miraidon is definitely gonna be the play, or at least it'll actually crop up some I'm sure just to escape it.



Iron Bundle @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Taunt

Honestly pretty underwhelming, though I still think this definitely has a niche. Outrunning the 3 best mons in the entire meta is no joke, especially when it has SE STABs to hit 2 of them with that aren't exactly all that weak. Idk how well it'll keep up with the meta long-term, but at least in this early part of the meta it'll most certainly hold a strong niche for that Speed tier alone. Probs best on heavy hazard stacking builds, probs with Knock Off mons too so that way Taunt + Freeze-Dry actually fucks with Pex really hard.



These guys are pretty good as well. They really help keep fatter builds alive in this otherwise very hard offensive metagame, ofc with the help of friends like Bliss, Corvi, and Pex paired with them. Skeledirge in particular is definitely one of the better checks to Koraidon, which is much needed in this metagame, and actually functions outside of hard stall so yea. Clodsire ig kinda can too but imo it's much harder to fit outside of hard stall.

There's more I wanted to talk about because frankly there are so many cool and imo viable new mons available to use (Chein-Pao, Iron Valiant, Scream Tail, the moths, just to name a few), but I've been at it for about 30+ mins now LOL. I'm sure there's far more to explore with this meta, especially while Tera is here because I doubt that shit's lasting till the end of the month but we'll see ig. Only time will tell if Tera is still around.

Tldr screens are bonkers, abuse them if/while you can. Can't wait to explore the meta more whenever I have free time to actually play & build.
 

Ainzcrad

Smile of the Orchid
is a Tiering Contributor
After laddering a bit testing one team out, trying to figure out if balance could be somewhat viable with the amount of offensive threats this tier has. I wanna give my thoughts and some things that really suprised/ i think are pretty good for the early stages of the meta.

:sv/flutter_mane:
Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Psyshock / Thunderbolt /Mystical Fire
- Substitute
or
Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Psyshock / Mystical Fire
This mon unsuprisingly is super good into this meta, it breaks the legends and revenge kills most of the mons trying to break past each other. Its coverage is outstanding in how it can hit most of the mons in the tier. FM has checks tho, given its low defense stat bulky grounds like hippowdon or clodsire (tho note this mon loses v psyshock sets). Other things that could potentially check this mon is iron treads, which is able to take hits from this mon given u run spdef but long term u lose to this mon252 SpA Choice Specs Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 121-144 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 86.8% chance to 3HKO) and even if u run lefties it becomes much harder to answer this mon (252 SpA Choice Specs Mismagius Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Donphan: 181-214 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 77% chance to 2HKO). Other things that people could def run are mystical fire sets which just makes this mon not worth using as a check into this. Other things that could ''check'' this mon is Ting-Lu but due to the Fairy typing it makes it really tough for it to answer this mon properly, but with terratype u could be able to answer this mon by turning urself into a steel type and using heavy slam to ohko this mon.


:sv/clodsire:
Clodsire @ Black Sludge
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes / Stealth Rock
Clodsire is surprisingly bulky and helps alot of teams check miraidon by beating any set that isnt specs draco, aswell as supporting the team with the potential of tspikes/spikes/stealth rocks. It being a grounded poison helps with the new ability toxic debris / tspikes toxapex that might be set. Other things that clodsire helps boost its viability is due to having unaware making set up sweepers like certain versions of iron vialant. The main issue with this is how easily its overwhelmed, and poor physical defense. Most ground types ko it with eq or set up sweepers like roaring moon just ohko this mon with earthquake.

:sv/corviknight:
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird / Body Press
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
This to no ones surprise is ne of the best removal mons that this tier has to offer. Corv is able to answer both of the donphan paradox forms, iron vialant to a somewhat limited extent, ruins mythicals (ting lu/chien pao) and the shed tailers. Not to forget that this helps the stall matchup asw, pp stalling a potential hippo or avalugg or ting lu to name a few, with pressure u can stall out alot of mons that otherwise could threaten ur breakers. U-Turn helps u keep up the momentum which is super necessary in a meta that is probably gonna be filled with offensive threats.


:sv/Koraidon:
Koraidon @ Choice Band
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Collision Course
- Dragon Claw
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
Or

Koraidon @ Expert Belt
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flame Charge / Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Dragon Claw
Now for the box legend, this thing is def broken with terra type. It breaks past most of the defensive answers that u could bring, stuff like scream tail are beaten by terra type into steel giving u the stab that u need to answer it. Slowbro duo gets u turned on giving u the option to go flutter mane and go crazy. On that note the best partner for this mon is flutter mane, both taking advantage of each others weaknesses. Koraidon doesnt appreciate mons such as toxapex/opposing dragon or fairy types like scream tail / flutter mane (without having to resort to terra typing), meanwhile it takes advantage of steel types which flutter mane generally doesnt appreciate.


I havent tested these out but i def can see them being great into this meta;
:sv/chien_pao: :sv/ditto:
Ice coverage is going to be insane with a good speed to help it out, it struggles with Steels, Waters like pex or Fairy types. But if it manages to set up on anything when there is none of those it can do alot of work, given it has ice shard to help out with nasty speed ties vs the dragon legends. Ditto generally just helps out vs webs or the set up dragons preventing them to set up sweep or reverse sweep your opponent.



This is mostly my first day thoughts from the games i have played on ladder and the team i used to test stuff out. The new mons def feel good, but this meta needs terra to get banned. Its way to overbearing just allowing u to randomly switch types and brute force ur way past otherwise reliable answers into the checks of a mon. Aside from that this meta feels really fun to me with the legends not being as overbearing as they seemed pre release.
 
Ghost Tera Miraidon is definitely gonna be the play, or at least it'll actually crop up some I'm sure just to escape it.
A possible problem here is Tera works like Dynamax: activating it is part of your attack. I don't think you can Ghost Tera and then switch out on the same turn, so Miraidon is still taking a chunky hit (albeit without the Ground weakness). At that point, unless you're choiced, you might be better off going for Tera flying to make yourself completely immune to the Earthquake and chunking the Dugtrio with a retaliation hit. (Edit: Flying also still lets you switch out of Arena Trap the following turn.) Flying gives a resistance to Koraidon's fighting type and no weakness to any of Flutter Mane's commonly used attacks, at the cost of retaining a weakness to Iron Bundle and doubling up on weaknesses vs opposing Miraidon. (On the subject of Iron Bundle, specs is surely the way to go given how rarely its Water STAB is likely to be useful?)

What do people think of HDB on Miraidon? Koraidon needs it a bit less as a pivot because of its rocks resistance, but I can also see the loss of power being a problem.
 
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Roaring Moon @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Roost

I don't think the set is all that optimized just yet, but it's proven to be a very funny revenge-killer vs non-Scarfed box legends on Sun. You hit 369 Attack and 370 Speed, giving you the Speed boost in Sun rather than Attack. Steel Tera Type for Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao.
 

Holy Ghost

byulharang
is a Tiering Contributor
Played some room tours last night and today and first impressions of the meta are
Screens are busted as I predicted, imo the best ho option currently (TR seems pointless, glimmora slead is cool, Rain seems bad with Korai everywhere but im going to try that out)
Tera is extremely good, it can just invalidate checks and counters instantly. Most likely needs to be banned
https://pokepast.es/13e56f62a380f93f - quick build I did last night with a shit ton of wins and what I have been spamming the entire time (I havent tweaked evs yet since meta new)
balance/stall can work but offense just has so many cheese options rn it can be hard to be consistent imo, I have seen a lot of good teams mainly Kate
Grimmsnarl doesnt need any introduction, put up screens with taunt and gained access to parting shot. Pretty stupid lead kit
Chien-pao was originally added to try and mess with opposing screens since prankster immunity, you can just setup since its stab is pretty good vs screens I would say.
Ironbundle didn't disappoint with its speed tier, great at pressuring the box legends and its stabs hit most of the tier.

Fluttermane is busted. Taunt helps you bypass shit
Miraidon spamming electro drift is pretty good, i opt for specs coverage over a setup (setup might be better)
Koraidon with Tera is absolutely absurd, fairy tera just invalidates it being easily revenged by some of the 405s and ditto (big). I adding stomping tantrum>collision course because I hate Skeledirge/clodsire with a passion Bulk Up could be cool
Major weaknesses are like brick break and getting tera/offense cheesed. if you use this hf
 
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Arboliva @ Leftovers
Ability: Seed Sower
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain

Really enjoying Arboliva in this early meta. It just doesn't die. I've found that it works very well vs Miraidon teams thanks to Seed Sower summoning Grassy Terrain after taking a hit, which deactivates both Hadron Engine and Quark Drive. EV spread isn't really optimized right now as I'm still trying to determine the best spread, but max SpDef has been serving me well as a good switchin to most Miraidon sets (CM Draco Meteor does kind of blow you up in Electric Terrain, though). Same with the Tera type selection as I don't really Tera this thing anyway. Not only all that, it's not passive with a very respectable 125 SpA. Even when uninvested and boosted by Terrain, you 2HKO Iron Treads and cleanly OHKO Iron Bundle, and with your good special bulk, you win the 1v1 vs Bundle, in particular, surviving Ice Beam when healthy. Strength Sap is great to annoy Koraidon on the switch, too. Cool mon, will likely be replaced by Rillaboom when it releases, though.

Something that's really funny about the Arboliva vs Miraidon matchup is that Miraidon cannot take advantage of Grassy Terrain on switchin since it sets Electric Terrain, so with hazards up, it's quite easy to keep chipping Miraidon down while you stay healthy.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1714577705-cbmhnezjw9gp3z3nbrjd0uhl2zgvokupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1714828322-o5662bptpijko0gmh0zf2a0n9l230mbpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1714843113-x4an5t13tnvrl6z3ylw63r7ar9pj79ppw





Great Tusk @ Booster Energy / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin / Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Ice Spinner / Knock Off

This is an experimental offensive support Great Tusk set that I've been trying out. I don't think it'll become one of its standards or anything, and Iron Treads does some of this better, but the main point of this set is that when Protosynthesis is proc'd, you gain Speed rather than attack, and you get to be this fast immediately against the likes of Iron Bundle and non-Booster Energy Flutter Mane rather than having to use Rapid Spin first and potentially getting spin-blocked, while also being a lot more offensively threatening with very high BP moves in HR and CC. You OHKO Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle with both, respectively. The EVs go to SpDef since your HP is already very high, so letting your SpDef get invested will give you better survivability on the special side, letting you take at least one strong neutral hit. You also get a fast Rapid Spin which puts you at an even faster Speed tier after a single usage of Rapid Spin with Protosynthesis enabled, as well as a fast Ice Spinner which is great for removing Electric Terrain. This isn't a particularly great set vs fatter teams, but Knock Off is an option to enable progress vs enemies, too. Booster Energy gives you the boost outside of Sun, but HDB can work vs webs and hazard stack teams.

Replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubers-1714594309-z30mr2g5nxhgrkkuu56j4qgd7d979s5pw
 
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Ik its Early gen so This ladder placing may not matter too much but I am giving my thoughts on these pokemon in Gen 9 Ubers
I love using this team alot https://pokepast.es/047a815a1a29023e
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Miraidon in my opinion is the best pokemon in the tier, Electric terrain Elctro drifts deal Alot of damage and most grounds dont like Draco meteor, Its only checks are Ting-Lu and Clodsidre which both of them lose at least 50% from a specs Meteor. Overheat is a nice option to slam Iron Treads. Volt switch really capitalizes on the very few switches this mon has really. Miraidon is Super fast at 135 speed meaning its only really outsped by scarfers or by setting up quark drive/protosynthesis on very fast mons like Iron Valiant and Flutter mane or the other option is risking a speed tie loss which has happened alot.Miraidon can go Tera Elctric to boost its Electro drifts to astronomical levels or can go tera dragon and really nail Ting-Lu and Clodsire making even him even more difficult to play around. Every team needing Clodsire or Ting Lu isnt too great since it can provide safe switch ins to pokemon that love these 2 around. And thats just the specs set, you can calm mind sets to switch around moves and can try a bulky utility set since it gets t-wave and screens(tho its mostly classed in this role by grimmsnarl). Its electric terrain also provides immunity to sleep which is always useful. It supports alot of great Future paradox mons Like Iron valiant and Iron bundle. Overall its still early gen so we dont know how the meta continues but Miraidon in my opinion is the best pokemon in the tier currently.

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Koraidon is in my opinion the close second. It basically has 3 STABs coz sun boosts its Flare Blitz and shares the same 135 speed tier as Miraidon but uses Close combat instead of electro drift. Personally I love using scarf Koraidon since it can outspeed stuff like iron bundle outside of electric terrain and speed tie a sun supported speed boosted Flutter mane it can even go tera fire to blank moonblast. Overall its just an amazing revenge killer. Other than scarf you run band for maximum power or run a more bulky set which can tank hits quite well. I like using U-turn on this because its U-turn and its broken ofc. Outside of that Miraidon does have some cool coverage options like Wild Charge and Crunch. Just like Miraidon, Koraidon is very difficult to check often times Skeldridge its best check or you attempt to revenge kill it with scarfers scarfers or by setting up quark drive/protosynthesis on very fast mons like Iron Valiant and Flutter mane or the other option is risking a speed tie loss(Similar to revenge killing Miraidon). Koraidon can support Flutter mane and Roaring moon which can be absolutley be deadly when positioned correctly. Overall I think Koraidon is the second best pokemon in the tier currently

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Iron treads isnt the most flashiest thing you would use in Ubers but its quite good at what it can do. Ground/Steel is great typing resisting both of Miraidons STABs(just watch out for overheat) and has nice bulk. Its one of the few good defensive mons we have and it provides great utility with rocks and Rapid spin. Flutter mane cant block its spin since it fears death via EQ or take ton of damage via knock off(which in oftself is a great tool to have). Iron treads nice attack means it hits Hard with its STAB EQ and resisting Flutter Manes moonblast is also a positive point as it can bulk itself to live shadow ball and mystical fire. Overall there is not much to say about this but its a great spinner and should be considered on teams that hate entry hazards(which are many).

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Ppl on this thread have mentioned how Iron Bundle is underwhelming but I disagree. Imo Iron Bundle is great coz of its amazing STAB Combination, Superb Speed tier, outrunning Koraidon and Miraidon and OHKOing them with ice beam, Outspeeds and can also KO FLutter mane with hydro after rocks LO Recoil and has u-turn and flip turn for momentum. All out attacker LO works really well since most things in the tier dont like eating ice beam + freeze dry + hydro and those who could, Delibird can gain momentum on them via U-turn. With quark drive active it outspeeds the entire meta. Just like Scarf Koraidon, Its a fantastic revenge killer and deserves more usage than it gets. Its biggest issue its rock weakness but with spin/defog support, you can get around it and its rewards are quite high. Overall Iron bundle should be considered on teams for its immense speed tier and amazing STAB combination

1668858010249.png

Iron Valiant under electric terrain is Arguably the Tiers best sweeper, its SD Close combat from 130atk 2hitkoes nearly the entire meta and with quark drive active, its extremely difficult to stop his sweep. I personally love Poison jab to really nail fairies and also it can spread Poison coz of Jabs poison chance. Knock off Hits skeldridge hard and removes his boots. You can also try special sets since it has 120 Spa tho it isnt really that good. You can drop poison jab for something like ground tera blast to nail clodsire and Skeldridge, Tera Fire to avoid skeldridges will-o-wisp burns and Flutter Mane's moonblast so overall Its very good and should be a go to partner for Miraidon who can in turn provide free switches via volt switch. Iron Valiant is imo the best paradox form alongside Flutter mane

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Flutter Mane is considered as best paradox form and its not hard to see why. 135 Spa with solid STAB combination alongside 135 speed is outstanding. Flutter mane has a great movepool, I run an all out attacker LO with Shadow ball, Moonblast, mystical fire and Psyshock. Its biggest weakness is its physical frailty but there arent many shadow sneak users who can come into this mon. Flutter Mane has great 135Spdef meaning it can Tank some special hits such as iron bundles freeze dry. You can also run Sub CM sets or a choice specs set. Flutter mane is also a ghost type meaning it can switch into rapid spin(tho you have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL, when switching into iron treads and great tusk since both can destroy this with Ground STAB). With pursuit still gone, shadow ball is still an easy spam button. I see ppl use Garnacle to check this coz of Purifying salt weakning ghost moves and its high spdef to tank shadow ball but Garnacle is Complete food for Koraidon meaning Flutter can indriectly give free switches Koraidon. Koraidon also activates its abilty meaning you can only revenge kill it via scarf koraidon/miradon(which isnt even reliable coz of speed tie) or Iron bundle or using a ditto. You can also jack up its Spa but it isnt that worth it over the speed boost Overall Its an outstanding mon and should be cosnidered on many teams.

And these are my thoughts on these pokemon in SV Ubers. Rn its early gen so lets see what happens later on as the dex expands via potential DLC and compatibilty with home.

Overall Gen 9 Ubers is a heavy offense oriented meta with very good defensive mons coz of the recovery moves nerf. Alot of matches are decided by Speed ties which can be very RNG relaint but its still a highly Enjoyable meta to play as of now
 

Attachments

Climbed to top 25 on the ladder (1360) with a 17-1 record so I think my team can't be too terrible. Here are a couple of sets:

:glimmora:
Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earth Power
- Dazzling Gleam

I got this from OU but here there are less Corviknight to defog away your hazards. Earth Power hits Steels and Dazzling Gleam hits all the Dragons and Fightings around here, so going STABless is probably the best choice. If your opponent has a Paradox Donphan, they might lead it to spin away your hazards. In that case you might not be getting hazards up, but can often trade, and it makes life easier for your Miraidon later on.

:flutter_mane:
Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Calm Mind / Mystical Fire
I can't count how many times I pulled out Sub on this thing as opponent tried to Sucker Punch. It's really good but doesn't OHKO everything so you really do need that extra layer of protection, or at least mindgames, especially if you have toxic spikes up from Glimmora. Tera type can be changed.
 
2 days into gen 9, here are some thoughts:
Hyper Offense is great as everyone predicted pre release, screens being absolutely busted.

Suprisingly stall isn't entirely dead, it is workable with 8 recovery pp just like Necrozma-DM in the earlier generations. 5 defensive mons + ditto is decent.

Terra: This is broken in my opinion. It gives the strength to offensive mons to break past their checks with new STAB or just be immune to their check's attacks as a whole. Also makes them impossible to revenge kill sometimes, anyone who played for a bit would have seen fairy Koraidon which is amazing.

Koraidon: Koraidon has suprised me overall. It is way better then I thought and can break past its checks easier than Miradon can.
Koraidon @ Choice Band
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Collision Course
- Heavy Slam
unfortunately the fire starter doesn't even come close to being a check. It is straight up 2hkoed by band dragon claw. Heavy slam breaks past scream tail (I read somewhere some have been using it as a check) and other fairy types in general. Super hard to get the right switch in, but in fact it has the 4 move syndrome. Huge movepool which allows it to break its potential checks easily, but it can't fit everything into the set. The best you can do is hope it does not carry the move which breaks your "check" to it or their prediction goes wrong.
Side note: the speed ties at 405 suck

Miradon: I saw some agility cm sets, dont think theyre good if you have a check to Miradon. Personal favourites are specs and the set given below:
Miraidon @ Expert Belt
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tera Blast
- Draco Meteor
- Electro Drift
- Overheat

tera ice is absolutely beautiful, easily breaking past the new quag clodsire with 2hkoes. Haven't faced Ting lu with it, but that has no reliable recovery should 2hko too in theory (someone confirming would be great). Another reason why I mentioned terra being broken earlier.

Flutter mane is good, another huge benefiter of terra. Terra ground easily break through the posions it cannot break.
Chien pao is broken, although corvi checks it to some extent, body press does not ohko if it terra's. Not to mention it does 80s to corvi with ice spinner/ crunch after terra and SD. There is counter play, such as fairy terra corvi and steel terra corvi maybe? but its way too random.
Love the new tusk boys and iron bundle.

A core I liked was Great tusk + Chien pao. Great tusk can, in fact, break through the corvi-iron treads-ting lu-fire starter defensive core. Here are sets:
Great Tusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Bulk Up
- Headlong Rush
- Close Combat

Chien-Pao @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ice Spinner
- Crunch
- Ice Shard
+1 Great Tusk Neatly 2hkoes corv doing 80's with cc. Bulk up is decent, specially if you dont need a rocker (i.e, using an offense). Chien pao goes crazy when the corvi is down or chipped beyond repair. The problem with bulky mons in the gen is if theyre chipped once, its too late. Way too much speed creep, they'll almost never get opportunity to heal again.

Thank you for reading.
 

Kate

Don't forget 3.Oct.11
is a Tiering Contributoris a defending SCL Champion
Peaked and played some roomtours so I'd like to post my thoughts on the very early meta.

Miraidon and Terastallization feel like the biggest offenders that limit me from fully enjoying SV Ubers right now. Mirai has insane set diversity, between specs and scarf, boots, lefties, even weakness policy deserves exploring. It also has no true counters, making mincemeat of Ting-Lu with Specs Draco, annihilating Iron Treads with Overheat, and turning Blissey into setup bait with Taunt CM, to name a few. It's an omnipresent threat that I've resorted to just dealing with by running soft checks and revenge killers.

Tera on the other hand is perhaps less broken, but far less fun for me right now. It feels completely uncompetitive to turn into whatever type with whatever Mon at your whimsy. I don't have too much to say on it, I'd just like it gone ASAP because it's very draining to face.

Some underexplored mons/sets I've experimented with:

Miraidon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 68 SpA / 188 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- U-turn
- Electro Drift

Always lives non boosted opposing Miraidon Draco from full, which can be very cool to eliminate it and preserve tera. Has some additional utility as well obviously, but struggles vs hazard stacking offenses.

Iron Bundle @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Freeze-Dry
- Flip Turn
- Taunt

The only set I'd really run. Amazing speed tier allowing it to creep possibly the four biggest threats of the meta, and packs great utility vs bulk thanks to taunt and flip turn.

Flutter Mane @ Metronome
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Taunt

Not too sure on the item here but metronome can definitely work, along with boots or lefties. Taunt psyshock packs great utility vs bulk while still retaining the traits that make Flutter Mane so potent to begin with.

Espathra @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute

Complete cheese, can surprise offense with cyclizar help and utterly ruins stall. Has an extremely hard time vs most of the darks in the meta and almost mandates shed tail to have a chance to set up though.

Miraidon @ Leftovers
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Dragon Pulse
- Parabolic Charge

One of my favorite sets ATM, EVs can definitely be optimized but you can steal a lot of wins with this. Taunt is great for punishing Clodsire and Blissey, and Parabolic Charge keeps Mirai relatively healthy. Struggles vs Ting-Lu and Iron Treads.

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt
- Flash Cannon

Taunt isn't mandatory here but is nice for the unawares and such, Steel Type Levitate is actually amazing in the meta and Dark Steel coverage is a bitch for a lot of teams to maneuver around.

Slowbro @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower

Self-explanatory Koraidon check that can spiral in late games. You take about 40 from non band/LO U-turn which isn't bad at all.

Dudunsparce-Three-Segment @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 172 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Roost
- Body Slam
- Poison Jab

I love this dude. He's absolutely terrible but I love him all the same. Running Poison Jab to punish Flutter Mane harder and stuff like Skeledirge.

Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Nasty Plot
- Trick
- Shadow Ball

Fucking amazing on offense, I'm telling you. Pair with a knock user and you will farm most teams with Spikes, as Gholdengo prevents literally any form of removal. Trick and NP give it nice utility outside of this as well.

Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Supreme Overlord
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head

Genuinely very hard to place right now. It has a good typing and bulk, a nasty ability, and sucker. On the other hand it will do nothing in half your games. I'm willing to bet Kingambit sinks into obscurity soon enough but for now he's fine enough.

My overall thoughts towards the meta are a lot more positive than day one. There's stuff to like here and I think with a few bans SV Ubers can be a great tier as we wait for home to drop. Spikes as a whole are oppressively good, mostly due to their insane distribution now, and I already touched on the two elements I find the most problematic so far. Either way, I'm looking forward to the future developments of the tier.
 
I made a team that seems to work quite well. Probably a bit situational though.
(Sorry about the order)

Scarf revenge killer. Pretty simple. Will kill almost anything that he's faster than.
(Especially fun if you predict a switch to Iron Treads)
Miraidon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Electro Drift
- Draco Meteor
- Dazzling Gleam
- Overheat

Setup/suicide attacker.
You either come in with Cyclizar's sub, or generate a free switch. Try not to break sash if possible. If you need to get rid of Flutter Mane, Flare Blitz for a 1 for 1 trade.
Koraidon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Collision Course
- Outrage
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz

The lead. Scarf means he's faster than all unscarfed Korai and Mirai. Shed Tail first turn, switch to appropriate bike.
Cyclizar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shed Tail
- Knock Off
- Outrage
- Agility

Horrible, unoptimized set. Defog to keep Korai's scarf from breaking.
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Press
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog

The sneaky boi. Shadow Sneak kills Flutter Mane most of the time, if you survive with 25% or below, you are nearly guaranteed to kill their sweeper.
Ceruledge @ Custap Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bitter Blade
- Shadow Sneak
- Destiny Bond
- Dragon Claw

This dude exists. More seriously, alternate setup/suicide along with Korai.
Chien-Pao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Brick Break
 
There's talks going on in the OU Metagame Discussion thread about the idea of a "Tera Clause" which would ideally reveal your Tera Type before you Terastallize. Think of it essentially acting like a gentleman's agreement between two players irl with each player telling the other what their Pokemon's Tera type is. Smogon rules already is an example of a gentleman's agreement, as an example. I would honestly want to try that out if it ever becomes a thing. The biggest issue with the mechanic is the unpredictability surrounding it. Knowing firsthand what your opponent's tera type is makes finding your counterplay that much less of a headache imo
 
There's talks going on in the OU Metagame Discussion thread about the idea of a "Tera Clause" which would ideally reveal your Tera Type before you Terastallize. Think of it essentially acting like a gentleman's agreement between two players irl with each player telling the other what their Pokemon's Tera type is. Smogon rules already is an example of a gentleman's agreement, as an example. I would honestly want to try that out if it ever becomes a thing. The biggest issue with the mechanic is the unpredictability surrounding it. Knowing firsthand what your opponent's tera type is makes finding your counterplay that much less of a headache imo
Maybe. I could see that helping. (How do I change Tera type lol, I criminally underuse it)
 

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