Resource Ubers Old Gens Hub

Lasen

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577E2748-2E94-4A96-9838-3CC43C184F95.png

Art by Blazenix
Welcome to the Ubers Old Gens Hub. This thread contains resources for the older generations of Ubers (Generations 1-7). Each post will contain the respective Viability Rankings, a selection of sample teams to get started with, and a helpful list of the important mechanics specific to each old generation and how the mechanics differ from the generations that succeeded it. This thread will remain open to accept sample teams, additional resources, potential changes in viability rankings, and general discussion of old gen Ubers.

Resources Index:
- Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
- Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
- Black 2 and White 2
- Diamond, Pearl and Platinum
- Advance Generation
- Gold, Silver and Crystal
- Red, Blue and Yellow
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:necrozma-dusk-mane:Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon:necrozma-dawn-wings:

Generation 7 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Rapid Spin is 20 BP and does not increase Speed by 1 stage
  • Terrain (Psychic, Grassy, etc.) boosts moves of its corresponding type by 1.5x instead of 1.3x.
  • USM has Z-Power, a mechanic that lets a Pokemon holding a Z-Crystal perform an especially strong version of one of its moves once per game. Only one Pokemon per team may use a Z-move. Here is a list of all Z-Moves: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Z-Move#List_of_Z-Moves.
  • The following moves, which are unusable in SS, are usable in USM: https://www.serebii.net/swordshield/unusableattacks.shtml
  • Both Necrozma-DM and Necrozma-DW can Ultra Burst into Ultra Necrozma when holding an Ultranecrozium Z and have Photon Geyser learned.

Choice Band Ho-Oh + Mega Gengar Bulky Offense | Provided by plat27


This team is built around supporting Choice Band Ho-Oh so that it can use its strong stabs to break through opposing teams. Ho-Oh should be played aggressively so it can come out often in order to spread status and spam Brave Bird, while Mega Mewtwo-Y can be used to clean late game. Because Ho-Oh is so vulernable to Stealth Rock and Yveltal is weak to it as well, they need to be kept off the field at all costs. Primal Kyogre is also a potential threat to this team as it's very weak to Water-type attacks outside of Primal Groudon, so care is needed to limit the number of opportunities Kyogre has to attack.


Zekrom Stall | Provided by Paradise Seeker

Mega Sableye stall with the unique inclusion of Zekrom to help against common threats like Ho-Oh, Marshadow, and Mega Salamence. it also alleviates pressure from Blissey as it can reliably 1v1 non-mixed Primal Kyogre. Calm Mind Arceus-Ground gives the team a strong alternate win condition that can be used once the opposing team has been worn down through status and hazards. Z-Crystal + Earth Power is preferred over Judgement + Earth Plate to always KO Primal Groudon after a boost. Keeping Stealth Rock off the field is vital for preserving Lunala's Shadow Shield and keeping Ho-Oh healthy. In particular, Primal Groudon with Stealth Rock and Toxic can slowly break Lunala over time so it's important to get status on it as soon as possible.


U-turn Mega Scizor + Double Primal Offense | Provided by Garay oak

This Offense team was built around using Primal Kyogre to break opposing teams. Mega Scizor's U-turn is used to safely pivot Kyogre in and Defog on both Scizor and Arceus-Ground helps to keep Kyogre healthy and continually firing off attacks. Stone Edge on specially defensive Primal Groudon helps with the Ho-Oh matchup; bulky Z-Dark Yveltal is a good way to kill Marshadow while the Z-move deals good damage to bulky Arceus formes like Dragon. This team is somewhat limited offensively outside of Kyogre so ensuring that it is able to attack numerous times to get value is key to winning with it.


Dual Primal + Extremekiller Arceus Hyper Offense | Provided by Mysterious M & Zesty43

Hyper Offense built around using Stealth Rock Ultra Necrozma to set hazards and overwhelm teams. This Ultra Necrozma set puts immense pressure on many of the tier's Defog users and with Power Gem it can heavily chip Yveltal which synergizes very well with Arceus-Normal and Primal Groudon. The two Primals and Mega Salamence hit very hard and can often trade for opposing Pokemon leaving Arceus-Normal to clean late game. This team can be somewhat vulnerable to faster threats like opposing Ultra Necrozma or Mega Mewtwo-Y, so chipping those Pokemon and keeping Arceus-Normal alive to revenge kill is important in those matchups. Ditto is always a problematic matchup for Hyper Offense teams.


"World Cup" Greninja + Mixed RP Groudon HO | Provided by plat27

Hyper Offense that uses suicide lead Greninja to set Spikes or Toxic Spikes in order to overwhelm opponents. One layer of Toxic Spikes is usually preferable to two because of the more immediate chip damage and Spikes can be used in situations where the opponent has a poison type such as Mega Gengar or Toxapex or leads a Pokemon that doesn’t limit Greninja to one hazard. Dragon Tail Primal Groudon is used to punish flying or levitating Defog users such as Mega Salamence and Giratina Origin trying to switch in and Defog and the rest of the Pokemon are set up sweepers that can abuse the chip damage provided by the hazards. Because none of the pokemon have recovery, it’s necessary that the team is played proactively in order to not let opponents be able to remove hazards or outlast its threats.


Double Ghost + Groundceus Balance | Provided by The Strap

Balance Team built around the synergy between four attacks Mega Gengar and Bulk Up Z-Marshadow. Gengar traps and removes many common Answers to Z-Marshadow including Arceus-Fairy, Defensive Zygarde-C and Xerneas making the two a very powerful core. It’s always important to be looking for opportunities where Gengar can mega evolve in order to enable its ability to trap and get the most value out of it. Magearna functions as the team’s cleric and helps to support Gengar with Volt Switch to pivot into it safely. One thing of note about the team is that its only fire resistance is Primal Groudon, so it's important to limit opportunities for Pokemon like opposing Primal Groudon or Ho-Oh to come in and cause damage.


Z Marshadow Hazard Stack Balance | Submitted by PurpleGatorade

Balance team centered around using chip damage from Ferrothorn’s Spikes to wear down teams to where Marshadow or Arceus-Ground can clean them up. Ferrothorn, Primal Groudon and Yveltal are all strong status users that can quickly wear down opposing teams and set up for Marshadow/Arceus. Zygarde-C serves as the team’s main status absorber and can help rack up hazards damage via Dragon Tail. An important aspect of this team is it’s lack of a Defog user, which means that pressuring with the team’s own hazards is important against matchups where opposing entry hazards can cause problems.

Roar Arceus Ground + Ultra Necrozma Balance | Provided by Pearl and Garay oak

This team takes advantage of the synergy between Ferrothorn’s Spikes support and Geomancy Xerneas. Xerneas’s checks are primarily grounded Steel-types like Necrozma-Dusk Mane and Magearna which make it extremely dangerous when Spikes are on the field as even just switching in and out of Xerneas to rack up hazard damage becomes threatening. Scarf U-turn Yveltal provides a strong revenge killer as well as a way to pivot into Ferrothorn to set Spikes and Arceus-Ground with Roar serves the dual purpose of phasing out opposing Geomancy Xerneas and shuffling Pokemon in to rack up more damage with hazards. Of the six Pokemon, only Ferrothorn and Arceus-Ground have recovery, so it's important to get hazards up quickly and keep the opponent on the back foot whenever possible.


Darkceus + CB Ho-Oh Balance | Provided by March Fires

This team is built around Ho-Oh's amazing breaking potential when given enough leeway. Arceus-Dark helps a ton vs Ultra Necrozma and is a valuable check to non-Swords Dance Primal Groudon, Mega Salamence and SD Necrozma-Dusk Mane. Choice Scarf Xerneas is the anti-offense tool, revenge killing Marshadow and Ultra Necrozma if need be. Swords Dance NDM can get kills on bulky Arceus that don't expect the damage output. Team is rounded out with Zygarde-C which is the team's Ekiller answer and status absorber, but also a possible win condition through Coil. Primal Kyogre can be problematic if given free turns, but it's within reason.
656 -
(252+ at +2)
606 -
(168+ at +2)
604 -
(252+ in sand)
598 -
(252 at +2)
585 -
(0 at +3)
582 -
(252+ at +1)
578 -
(252 at +2)
574 -
(252+ at +1) , (252+ at +2)
558 -
(252+ at +1)
538 -
(252 at +2)
532 -
(252+ at +1)
524 -
(252+ at +2)
522 -
(252 at +2)
518 -
(252 at +2)
512 -
(88 at +2)
510 -
(156 at +2)
508 -
(252 at +1)
506 -
(252 at +2)
---[Boosted]----------
504 -
(252+)
493 -
(212 at +1)
492 -
(252+ at +1)
489 -
(252+ at +1)
483 -
(252+ at +1)
478 -
(252 at +2)
475 -
(252+ at +1)
468 -
(0 at +2)
460 -
(124 at +1)
---[Base 90+ at +1]---------
459 -
(252+ at +1)
448 -
(252 at +1)
446 -
(132 at +2)
445 -
(252 at +1)
441 -
(252+)
439 -
(252 at +1)
438 -
(252+)
436 -
(252+ at +1)
433 -
(252 at +1)
430 -
(252+ at +1)
426 - :zygarde::blaziken: (232+ at +1) , (252+ at +1)
418 -
(252 at +1)
417 -
(252+ at +1)
---[Base 140+]----------
416 -
(252+)
403 -
(252 at +1)
401 -
(252)
395 -
(236)
394 -
(252+)
392 -
(252+)
391 -
(252 at +1)
388 -
(252+) , (252 at +1)
384 -
(88 at +1)
383 - :marshadow::darkrai: (252+)
379 -
(252 at +1)
377 –
(252+)
375 -
(252+)
---[Base 120+]----------
372 –
(252+)
356 - :arceus: (192+)
355 –
(252+)
350 - :gengar:
(252+)
339 -
(252)
332 -
(0 at +2)
331 -
(252+)
330 -
(212) , (176+)
328 –
(252+)
326 –
(252+)
323 -
(252)
322 -
(252+)
317 –
:zygarde: (252+)
307 -
(124)
---[Base 90+]----------
306 –
(252+)
302 -
(252+)
301 -
(252)
299 -
(252)
297 -
(252)
291 -
(252+)
290 –
(136) , (56)
289 -
(252)
287 - :gyarados:
(252+)
---[Base 80+]----------
284 - :blaziken::zygarde: (252+), (232)
280 -
(96), (16)
279 -
(252)
278 -
(252+)
273 -
(252+)
264 -
(232)
262 -
(252+)
261 - :gyarados:
(252)
259 - :blaziken: (252)
256 -
(88)
254 - :groudon-primal::giratina-origin::deoxys-defense::yveltal: (152) , (80)
253 -
(252)
248 -
(252+ at -1)
243 -
(252+)
239 -
(252)
235 -
(76)
234 -
(0)
226 -
(0)
216 -
(0)
206 -
(0)
194 -
(0-)
---[Uninvested Base 90+]----------
190 -
(0)
186 -
(0)
167 -
(36)
166 -
(0)
158 -
(0)
146 -
(0)
143 -
(0-, 0)
136 -
(0)
106 -
(0)
102 -
(0)
96 -
(0)
76 -
(0) , (0-)
56 -
(0-, 0 at -2)
46 -
(0)
40 -
(0-, 0)
 
Last edited:

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:groudon-primal:Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire:kyogre-primal:

Generation 6 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Burn damage is 12.5%
  • Soul Dew boosts Latios and Latias's Special Attack and Special Defense by 50%
  • Dark Void has an accuracy of 80%
  • Sucker Punch has a base power of 80
  • Gengar has Levitate
  • Destiny Bond does not fail in consecutive uses
  • Mega evolving does not grant speed changes before attacking
  • Aerilate and sibling abilities yield a damage multiplier of 1.3
  • Thunder Wave is 100% accurate
  • Paralysis quarters a paralyzed Pokémon's speed
  • Parental Bond's second strike is half the power of the first
  • Prankster does affect Dark-types
  • The odds of Protect working on consecutive tries go down by 50% each time, not 66%
  • The base critical hit rate is 1/16, not 1/24

Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder
- Stealth Rock

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Wave

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 100 Def / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Geomancy

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Dialga always seems to find a valuable role in Uber metagames. The shuca berry set used provides the otherwise frail team with a strong Stealth Rock user and a great offensive check to Salamence. Dialga's issues with Darkrai is being solved by the use of RestTalk Geomancy Xerneas, which similarly benefits from Dialga's ability to set Stealth Rock against the troublesome Ho-oh balances with ease. The teams primarily stallbreakers, Primal Groudon and Deoxys-A complement each other with the former providing the latter an easy switch-in to Klefki, among other things. Arceus-Normal and Salamence provide the team with great offensive checks to the majority of the tier, as well as complementing each other by putting pressure on physically defensive Pokémon.


Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Skill Swap
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Facade
- Roost

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake

Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Dark Pulse

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 100 Def / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Geomancy



Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Focus Blast
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 208 SpD / 52 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 216 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hex
- Toxic
- Defog
- Thunder Wave

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Trademark of the Choice Band Ho-oh+Klefki balance archetype. Deploys Arceus-Water in order to gain a stronger match up against Ho-oh, Primal Groudon and Salamence but an Arceus-Normal is a feasible choice as it provides stronger match ups vs Ho-oh-less balances in general. Spread status and clean with Mega Gengar.


Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Hex
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Toxic Spikes
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin

Rayquaza @ Choice Band
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Waterfall
- V-create
- Extreme Speed

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Recover

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 156 HP / 196 Atk / 104 SpD / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb
- Dragon Claw

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 200 Def / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / 31 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Focus Blast

This is an offensive team with Rayquaza as the main wall breaker and Cloyster as it's lead. It's pretty straightforward. Cloyster is a solid lead that can set Toxic Spikes, can pressure stuff with Shell Smash + Icicle Spear and also has access to Rapid Spin, which makes it very useful against other leads. Primal Groudon is the team's Stealth Rock user and also checks Xerneas, Primal Kyogre and Steel types. Rayquaza is the team's main wall breaker. With Choice Band as it's item, Rayquaza hits ridiculously hard, making it very hard for most teams to deal with it. Scarf Xerneas helps against threats like Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Darkrai, lati@s etc which are pretty threatening to the team, otherwise. Mega Gengar is a solid mega evolution that can take out key threats thanks to Shadow Tag. Lastly, Arceus is there to revenge kill weakened stuff and acts as a late game sweeper.
606 -
(168+ at +2)
604 -
(252+ in sand)
598 -
(252 at +2)
582 -
(252+ at +1)
574 -
(252+ at +1) , (252+ at +2)
565 -
(252+ at +1)
558 -
(252+ at +1)
552 -
(186 at +2)
550 -
(252 in sand)
532 -
(252+ at +1)
530 -
(252+ at +2)
524 -
(252+ at +2)
522 -
(252 at +2)
518 -
(252 at +2)
508 -
(252 at +1)
506 -
(76 at +2)
---[Boosted]----------
504 -
(252+)
492 -
(252+ at +1)
490 -
(44 at +2)
489 -
(252+ at +1)
480 -
(176 at +1)
478 -
(252 at +2)
475 -
(252+ at +1)
463 -
(252+ at +1)
460 -
(56 at +2)
459 -
(252+ at +1)
448 -
(252 at +1)
445 -
(252 at +1)
440 -
(16+)
438 -
(252+)
433 -
(252 at +1)
430 -
(252+ at +1)
429 -
(216+)
426 -
(252+ at +1)
---[Base 140+]----------
416 -
(252+)
399 -
(252)
397 -
(252+ at +1)
394 -
(252+)
388 -
(252+), (252 at +1)
385 -
(216+)
383 –
(252+)
377 –
(252+)
---[Base 120+]----------
372 –
(252+)
356 -
(192+)
355 –
(252+)
350 –
(252+)
---[Base 100+]----------
339 -
(252)
330 -
(96+)
328 –
(252+)
326 –
(252+)
320 -
(176)
319 -
(252)
317 –
(252+)
---[Base 90+]----------
306 –
(252+)
302 -
(252+)
299 -
(252)
297 -
(252)
290 –
(136), (56)
289 -
(252)
---[Base 80+]----------
287 -
(252+)
284 –
(252+)
280 -
(176)
279 -
(252)
276 -
(0)
275 -
(252)
273 -
(252+)
268 -
(0)
265 -
(252+)
262 -
(252+)
259 -
(252)
245 -
(44)
244 -
(32)
243 -
(252+)
239 -
(252)
236 -
(0)
234 -
(0)
226 -
(0)
218 -
(252+)
216 -
(0)
194 -
(0-)
---[Uninvested Base 90+]----------
186 -
(0)
176 -
(0)
166 -
(0)
158 -
(0)
156 -
(0)
146 -
(0)
136 -
(0)
121 -
(0-,0)
112 -
(0-,0)
102 -
(0)
96 -
(0)
76 -
(0), (0-,0)
63 -
(0-,0)
40 -
(0-,0)
 
Last edited:

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:kyurem-black:Black 2 & White 2:kyurem-white:

Generation 5 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Higher base power of following moves: Draco Meteor (140), Hydro Pump (120), Thunder (120), Fire Blast (120), Surf (95), Ice Beam (95), Flamethrower (95), Thunderbolt (95) Overheat (140), Hurricane (120), Dragon Pulse (90), Hidden Power (70)
  • Will-O-Wisp has an accuracy of 75%
  • Defog clears hazards, Light Screen, Reflect, and Safeguard only on the target's side of the field, not your own
  • Dark and Ghost are resisted by Steel
  • Sleep turns reset upon switching out
  • The abilities Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, and Snow Warning enable permanent weather
  • Knock Off has a base power of 20
  • Ghost types are affected by trapping abilities and effects, such as Shadow Tag
  • Critical hits deal 2x normal damage, not 1.5x
credit goes to Minority for the Arceus minisprites. Every rank is sorted internally.

S Rank

Kyogre

A Rank

A+

Genesect
Arceus-Ghost
Giratina-O
Groudon
Dialga
Latios
Arceus-Normal
Arceus-Fighting
Darkrai

A

Deoxys-S
Deoxys-A
Ho-Oh
Ferrothorn
Latias
Palkia
Rayquaza

A-

Arceus-Steel
Excadrill
Tyranitar
Kabutops

B Rank

B+

Arceus-Grass
Forretress
Tentacruel
Accelgor
Arceus-Water
Arceus-Rock
Froslass
Gliscor

B

Arceus-Dark
Skarmory
Cloyster
Mewtwo
Shaymin-S
Arceus-Ground
Arceus-Electric
Terrakion
Zekrom
Landorus-T
Giratina
Lugia

B-

Jirachi
Espeon
Heatran
Omastar
Blaziken
Kingdra
Tornadus-T
Arceus-Dragon
Probopass
Garchomp
Qwilfish
Scolipede

C Rank

C+

Ariados
Hippowdon
Reshiram
Kyurem-W
Crustle
Arceus-Psychic
Wobbuffet
Cresselia
Manaphy
Ludicolo
Sableye
Xatu
Thundurus

C

Lilligant
Shiftry
Gastrodon
Chansey
Blissey
Mamoswine
Victini
Deoxys-D
Landorus
Salamence
Arceus-Poison

C-

Smeargle
Aerodactyl
Bronzong
Arceus-Fire
Arceus-Ice
Gothitelle
Abomasnow

D Rank

Dugtrio
Arceus-Flying
Deoxys
Arceus-Bug

Groudon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Iron Head

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 164 HP / 148 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Healing Wish

Built in 2013 when Kebabe modified Hack's RMT Droughtfest, this team has shown great progress against a wide variety of opponents. Instead of hinging on a very thin thread of having to prevent Stealth Rock at all cost to support Ho-oh, the team centers around accomplishing an Arceus-Normal sweep, something it has shown to do very consistently. The fact that it has the flexibility in the hazard game due to Cloyster's abilities to set spikes, spin or luring in and weakening Ekiller-checks such as Arceus-Ghost makes the game plan much more hyper offensively oriented than the typical "magic sun" teams seen at the time. Ho-oh is of course a beast when Stealth Rock isn't up, but one has to understand that the main goal of the team is ultimately an Ekiller sweep.


Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 56 Def / 136 SpD
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Payback
- Superpower
- Fire Blast

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Extreme Speed

Arceus-Fighting @ Fist Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpA / 112 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Recover

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Explosion

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Earthquake

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Recover

This sand balance revolves around having relatively sound checks to just about anything in the BW2 Ubers meta. It has a solid match up versus just about anything, and that is its biggest selling point. Sand is greatly disruptive for the more prevalent sun and rain-based teams, and Tyranitar in itself is a fully functioning check to threats like Arceus-Ghost and Latios / Latias. Mixed Rayquaza is something to note in particular on this team. It greatly helps the team's defensive and offensive synergy by checking dangerous weather sweepers while at the same time breaking walls for the team's cleaner, Excadrill. Latias + Genesect + Arceus-Fighting is likely the most solid combination in BW2 Ubers for a balanced team, and forms a solid backbone to check a multitude of big threats. Arceus-Fighting's set is largely contributing to the team's good match up vs sun.


Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Roar

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Roost

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 136 SpD / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Surf
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Thunder

This team is based on a build by the legendary Pi Face. As that team has a Palkia, and thus no ground immunity, Hack did some remastering. It is a good example of how a team can resemble stall while still be efficient in the offensive BW2 metagame. Three steels might seem over the top but Excadrill and Ferrothorn have noteworthy synergy due to their secondary types. Surf Arceus-Ghost stands out as an odd set. It was first proposed by Donkey, who found it to be a good anti-spinning tool that happened to hit a lot of threats to bulkier teams quite hard. Genesect is there because it is simply too good to not use, even for a bulky team.


Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Low Kick
- Fire Blast

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Scald

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

Arceus-Fighting @ Fist Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Recover
- Stone Edge

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 156 Atk / 248 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Shadow Sneak

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam

Problems made this team for a MUTE game back in 2013 but utilized a lead Garchomp as opposed to Tyranitar. While this guarantees outspeeding Palkia, all Dialga and efficient anti leading of Deoxys-A, Garchomp's lackluster match up against the common Deoxys-S holds it back. Of course, it one is a willing to sacrifice the effeciency vs this lead in particular, Garchomp can replace Tyranitar. This team plays almost entirely off of getting hazards up quicker and in larger quantity than the opponent. This makes handling the team's phazers and Arceus-Fighting incredibly hard.
Dedicated Lead
:deoxys-speed::deoxys-attack::accelgor::tyranitar::excadrill::forretress::froslass::cloyster::skarmory::garchomp::scolipede::crustle::ariados::mamoswine::smeargle:
Spiker
:deoxys-speed::deoxys-attack::deoxys-defense::cloyster::ferrothorn::froslass::skarmory::forretress::accelgor::crustle::omastar::qwilfish::scolipede::smeargle:
Toxic Spiker
:cloyster::omastar::forretress::qwilfish::scolipede::tentacruel::ariados::smeargle:
Stealth Rocker
:deoxys-speed::deoxys-attack::dialga::groudon::excadrill::ferrothorn::forretress::garchomp::gliscor::heatran::hippowdon::jirachi::landorus-therian::blissey::chansey::skarmory::tyranitar::bronzong::crustle::omastar::mamoswine::smeargle::arceus:
Choice Scarfer
:genesect::kyogre::dialga::darkrai::palkia::shaymin-sky::ho-oh::terrakion::zekrom::salamence::garchomp::reshiram::landorus:
Wallbreaker
:kyogre::groudon::darkrai::latios::deoxys-attack::ho-oh::blaziken::palkia::dialga::rayquaza::kabutops::zekrom::omastar::kingdra::excadrill::kyurem-white::mewtwo:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Stallbreaker
:latios::darkrai::ho-oh::rayquaza::gliscor::mewtwo::palkia::giratina-origin::manaphy::heatran::arceus:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Physical Wall
:giratina::groudon::ferrothorn::forretress::gliscor::giratina-origin::skarmory::landorus-therian::lugia::hippowdon::cresselia::deoxys-defense::wobbuffet::sableye::arceus:
Special Wall
:kyogre::latias::ho-oh::excadrill::tyranitar::tentacruel::giratina::lugia::jirachi::heatran::probopass::dialga::wobbuffet::cresselia::chansey::blissey::bronzong::arceus:
Phazer
:kyogre::dialga::giratina::giratina-origin::groudon::palkia::lugia::rayquaza::heatran::hippowdon::latios::latias::skarmory::arceus:
Hazard Control
:excadrill::kabutops::tentacruel::forretress::cloyster::espeon::xatu:
Spinblocker
:giratina-origin::giratina::sableye::froslass::arceus:
Wish/Cleric/Healing Wish
:blissey::chansey::jirachi::shaymin-sky::latias::cresselia::lilligant:
Status Absorber
:kyogre::giratina-origin::giratina::dialga::gliscor::espeon::xatu::manaphy::chansey::blissey::arceus:
Priority User
:giratina-origin::deoxys-attack::rayquaza::kabutops::sableye::genesect::darkrai::thundurus::mamoswine::abomasnow::arceus:
Specs Kyogre Check
:latios::latias::palkia::giratina::ludicolo::gastrodon::abomasnow::arceus:
Kyogre Soft Check
:kyogre::dialga::groudon::ferrothorn::tentacruel::kyurem-white::chansey::blissey::arceus:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Extreme Killer Arceus Check
:groudon::skarmory::giratina-origin::kabutops::omastar::forretress::terrakion::giratina::lugia::hippowdon::sableye::arceus:
Darkrai Check
:kyogre::genesect::rayquaza::dialga::ho-oh::tyranitar::terrakion::zekrom::jirachi::chansey::blissey::arceus:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Rain Abuser
:kyogre::latios::latias::ferrothorn::palkia::kabutops::tentacruel::omastar::kingdra::jirachi::manaphy::ludicolo::tornadus-therian::qwilfish::arceus:
Sun Abuser
:latios::latias::ho-oh::heatran::blaziken::reshiram::lilligant::shiftry::victini::arceus:
Sand Abuser
:excadrill::landorus::arceus:
 
Last edited:

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:dialga:Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum:palkia:

Generation 4 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Sleep lasts 1-4 turns; the counter does not reset upon switching out
  • Sleep talk will fail when used more than one in conjunction with a choice item. Switching out resets this
  • Magic Coat does not reflect entry hazards, Taunt, or Torment
  • Extreme Speed has a priority of +1
  • Explosion and Self-Destruct have an effective base power of 500 and 400, respectively
  • Pokémon holding Life Orb will not take recoil damage hitting a substitute
  • Encore lasts from 4-8 turns
  • Toxic is 85% accurate
  • Taunt lasts 3-5 turns
  • Wish restores 50 % of the recipient's health, regardless of what HP the Wish user has
  • Synchronize does not Poison the opponent when the Synchronizing Pokemon is affected by Toxic Spikes
  • When a Pokemon uses Healing Wish, the Pokemon that receives the Healing Wish takes hazard damage before health restoration and recovery from status. Additionally, if the Healing Wish user is faster than the foe's attacker, the Healing Wish recipient takes the damage from their attack upon coming in.
  • Pokemon with Magic Guard can be Paralyzed but not Fully Paralyzed.
all of the ranks and subranks are ranked internally
S Rank

Dialga
Kyogre
Giratina-O


A Rank

A+


Groudon
Deoxys-S
Darkrai
Latias
Mewtwo

A

Latios
Palkia
Jirachi
Garchomp
Rayquaza
Tyranitar

A-

Skarmory
Forretress
Bronzong
Heatran


B Rank

B+


Deoxys-A
Kabutops
Ho-Oh
Blissey
Manaphy
Scizor
Lucario
Wobbuffet
Tentacruel
Kingdra

B

Giratina
Lugia
Shaymin-S
Qwilfish
Froslass
Mew

B-

Ludicolo
Quagsire
Cloyster
Gliscor
Metagross
Clefable


C Rank

C+


Magnezone
Cresselia
Salamence
Victreebel
Infernape
Heracross
Omastar

C

Hariyama
Shiftry
Celebi
Dugtrio


D Rank

Deoxys-D
Deoxys
Wynaut
Sun Stall with Choice Scarf Dialga by Seldanna and Nineveh
:forretress::groudon::cresselia::dialga::blissey::giratina:

This team is built around an otherwise underutilized Pokemon: Cresselia, which helps blank Groudon, Rayquaza, and Giratina-O. Lead Forretress is good to deny most Deoxys-S hazards while also setting up Toxic Spikes and potentially Spikes whilst absorbing Darkrai's Dark Void. Groudon helps minimize hax through its Drought preventing freezes and limiting Kyogre's pressure. Blissey helps blank most special attackers while Giratina is a spinblocker and good phazer. Choice Scarf Dialga helps with Hyper Offense matchups and the Lum Darkrai matchup through speed control. More info on the RMT of the team.


Wobbuffet + Rayquaza classic Hyper Offense by shrang
:deoxys-speed::wobbuffet::rayquaza::groudon::mewtwo::darkrai:

This is a classic hyper offense structure with lead Deoxys-Speed to set up as many hazards as possible. Wobbuffet can trap choice locked Pokemon and remove them and also gives a free setup turn for Rayquaza and Groudon. Mewtwo acts as a very good wallbreaker, with Grass Knot hitting both Kyogre and Groudon while always being able to Selfdestruct against anything it can't outright OHKO. Monoattacking Darkrai can blank status moves from slower foes and gain a free setup opportunity. If Wobbuffet goes down, any Choice Scarfer faster than Rayquaza can be a problem to deal with. Lum Berry Darkrai is also a big issue for this team if Groudon's Lum has been consumed.


Choice Band Dialga rain Offense by Exiline
:kyogre::dialga::latios::bronzong::darkrai::rayquaza:

This team puts a spin on the classic Rain spikes-less that would otherwise have trouble with the classic sunstall structure posted above. Choice Band Dialga spins the matchup on its head, 2HKOing everything in its wake and baiting Blissey to come in. Lead Kyogre beats most leads besides Focus Sash Deoxys-S. Latios is a fantastic breaker while Bronzong is a solid Stealth Rocker and Draco switch-in that is even better in rain where its fire weakness is removed. Choice Scarf Darkrai outspeeds Kabutops in rain and provides revenge killer for boosted Rayquaza, while last slot Rayquaza can work as a cleaner or wallbreaker.


Standard Rain Hyper Offense ft. Palkia by Inspirited
:deoxys-speed::darkrai::kyogre::bronzong::giratina-origin::palkia:

This team attempts to overwhelm most defensive mons through sheer wallbreaking power. Psycho Boost Deoxys-S helps against Tentacruel to keep Toxic Spikes away. Palkia under rain has next to no switch-ins, with Focus Punch putting Blissey in range of Hydro Pump and Lum Berry aiding vs Darkrai and Kyogre's Thunder paralysis chance. Giratina-O is the best wallbreaker in the tier, with Outrage to help against Thunder Wave + Calm Mind Kyogre. Darkrai helps against Swift Swimmers and other Choice Scarf users and provides a clear end game cleaner.


Choice Scarf Deoxys-S Rain by Seldanna
:deoxys-speed::kyogre::bronzong::giratina-origin::dialga::latios:

A different type of Rain Hyper Offense, this team utilizes a Choice Scarf Deoxys-S to come out ontop of more lead matchups. Kyogre can be a mid-game threat, paralyzing Dragon-types and threatening most foes with Surf + Ice Beam. Bronzong is one of the best specially defensive Steels, having 0 weaknesses when in rain. Choice Scarf Dialga acts as a pseudo-steel and also a Sleep absorber, outspeeding most unboosted foes. Latios rounds out the team, with nothing switching safely into it, while Roar forces out foes who try setup on it after a Draco Meteor drop.


Calm Mind Mewtwo + Life Orb Dialga Offense
:kyogre::dialga::garchomp::bronzong::palkia::mewtwo:

This team is built around Calm Mind + Recover Mewtwo, one of the best lategame cleaners. BoltBeam coverage is notoriously almost entirely unresisted and Recover makes sure Mewtwo remains healthy throughout. Offensive Dialga can punish opposing Dialga in the 1v1 and beats sun balance defensive walls such as Heatran and Groudon, while having offensive pressure even after a Draco Meteor Special Attack drop thanks to Outrage. Haban Berry Palkia lives Latias, Garchomp and Rayquaza hits and puts the pressure on them, whilst exerting offensive pressure with its great coverage. Choice Scarf Garchomp outspeeds everything that isn't a weather abuser and is extremely difficult to switch into while acting like a sleep absorber.
Hazards:

Stealth Rock: Armaldo / Blissey / Bronzong / Deoxys / Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S / Dialga / Forretress / Garchomp / Gliscor / Groudon / Heatran / Jirachi / Mamoswine / Mew / Skarmory / Tyranitar
Spikes: Cloyster / Deoxys / Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S / Forretress / Froslass / Skarmory /
Toxic Spikes: Cloyster / Forretress / Qwilfish / Tentacruel
Rapid Spin: Armaldo / Forretress / Kabutops / Tentacruel


Team Support:

Wish: Blissey / Jirachi / Latias
Heal Bell / Aromatherapy: Blissey / Shaymin-Sky
Healing Wish: Blissey / Jirachi / Latias / Shaymin-Sky
Walls:
Physically Defensive: Cresselia / Giratina / Groudon / Lugia / Skarmory
Specially Defensive: Abomasnow / Blissey / Bronzong / Dialga / Heatran / Ho-Oh / Kyogre / Ludicolo / Lugia / Palkia / Scizor / Skarmory / Tyranitar / Wobbuffet

Revenge Killers:

Choice Scarf Users: Darkrai / Deoxys-S / Dialga / Garchomp / Heatran / Jirachi / Kyogre / Metagross / Palkia / Rayquaza / Salamence / Scizor / Shaymin-Sky
Trappers: Dugtrio / Scizor / Tyranitar / Weavile / Wobbuffet

Weather:
Sun: Shiftry / Victreebel
Rain: Kabutops / Kingdra / Ludicolo / Manaphy / Omastar / Qwilfish
Setters: Abomasnow / Groudon / Kyogre / Tyranitar

Stallbreakers:
Set-Up Sweepers: Darkrai / Dialga / Garchomp / Giratina / Groudon / Kyogre / Latias / Latios / Lucario / Lugia / Manaphy / Mewtwo / Palkia / Rayquaza / Scizor
Other: Darkrai / Gliscor / Heatran / Mewtwo / Skarmory / Shaymin-Sky


Priority Users: Abomasnow / Cloyster / Darkrai / Deoxys / Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S / Froslass / Giratina / Giratina-O / Lucario / Qwilfish / Rayquaza / Scizor

Phazers: Dialga / Giratina / Giratina-O / Groudon / Heatran / Latias / Lugia / Kyogre / Skarmory


Importable set Compendium by Lauriane and Seldanna

-----[Tier 1 - Boosted and Deoxys-Speed]-----
750 - :kingdra: (176 with Swift Swim at +1)
660 - :Ninjask: (176+ at +1)
644 - :gliscor: (252+ at +2)
594 - :deoxys-speed: (0 at +1)
591 - :mewtwo: (252+ at +1)
590 - :qwilfish: (252+ with Swift Swim)
582 - :shaymin-sky: (252+ at +1)
574 - :darkrai: (252+ at +1)
568 - :kabutops: (252+ with Swift Swim)
558 - :dialga::lucario: (252 at +2)
538 - :kingdra::qwilfish: (252 with Swift Swim)
525 - :latios: (252+ at +1)
522 - :victreebel: (252+ with Chlorophyll)
518 - :kabutops: (252 with Swift Swim), :shiftry: (252 with Chlorophyll)
506 - :mew: (68 at +2)
504 - :deoxys-speed: (252+)
500 - :groudon: (136 at +2), :kingdra: (176 with Swift Swim)
499 - :garchomp: (252+ at +1)
492 - :jirachi::palkia::salamence: (252+ at +1)
476 - :victreebel: (252 with Chlorophyll)
475 - :rayquaza: (252+ at +1)
460 - :deoxys-speed: (92+)
-----[Tier 2 - Base 90s at +1]-----
459 - :dialga: :giratina: :ho-oh: :kyogre::lucario: (252+ at +1)
458 - :deoxys-speed: (252), :omastar: (252+ with Swift Swim)
442 - :heracross: (252+ at +1)
440 - :ninjask: (176+)
438 - :deoxys: :deoxys-attack: (252+)
433 - :rayquaza: (252 at +1)
418 - :dialga: :giratina: :ho-oh: :kyogre: (252 at +1)
403 - :heracross: (252 at +1)
395 - :deoxys-attack: (236)
394 - :aerodactyl::mewtwo: (252+)
393 - :metagross: (252+ at +1)
388 - :shaymin-sky: (252+)
383 - :darkrai: (252+)
375 - :kingdra: (176 at +1)
372 - :dugtrio: (252+)
364 - :tyranitar: (252+ at +1)
352 - :mewtwo: (96+)
350 - :froslass: :gengar: :latias: :latios: :lugia: (252+)
349 - :latias: :latios: (252+ with HP Fire)
346 - :infernape: (252+)
339 - :dugtrio: (252)
334 - :latias: :lugia: (192+)
333 - :garchomp: (252+)
328 - :mew: :palkia: :salamence: :tentacruel: (252+)
319 - :tentacruel: (216+)
317 - :gliscor: :rayquaza: (252+)
308 - :manaphy: (176+), :rayquaza: (216+)
-----[Tier 3 - Max Speed Base 90s]-----
306 - :dialga::giratina::giratina-origin::ho-oh::kyogre::lucario: (252+)
295 - :qwilfish: (252+)
290 - :dialga::giratina-origin: (192+)
289 - :rayquaza: (252)
284 - :kabutops::shiftry: (252+)
279 - :dialga::kyogre::lucario: (252)
269 - :kingdra::qwilfish: (252)
262 - :cloyster: (252+)
261 - :victreebel: (252+)
259 - :kabutops::mamoswine::shiftry: (252)
256 - :lugia: (0)
253 - :mew: (68)
250 - :groudon: (136), :kingdra: (176)
244 - :celebi::jirachi::manaphy: (32), :dialga::giratina-origin::groudon::ho-oh::kyogre: (112), :gliscor: (72)
243 - :tyranitar: (252+)
239 - :metagross::victreebel: (252)
229 - :omastar: (252+)
226 - :gliscor: (0)
222 - :heatran: (128), :dialga::giratina-origin::ho-oh::kyogre: (24)
221 - :tyranitar: (252)
-----[Tier 4 - Uninvested Base 90s]-----
216 - :deoxys-defense::dialga::giratina::giratina-origin::groudon::kyogre: (0)
209 - :omastar: (252)
206 - :cresselia: (0)
194 - :dialga::groudon: (0-)
191 - :magnezone: (140)
190 - :heatran: (0)
184 - :palkia: (0- 0IV)
176 - :ludicolo::skarmory: (0)
168 - :magnezone: (48)
166 - :dialga::kyogre: (0- 0IV), :scizor: (0)
158 - :tyranitar: (0)
156 - :abomasnow::clefable: (0)
146 - :blissey: (0)
142 - :tyranitar: (0-)
136 - :hariyama: (0)
116 - :forretress: (0)
106 - :quagsire: (0)
102 - :bronzong::wobbuffet: (0)
82 - :wynaut: (0)
76 - :forretress: (0- 0IV)
63 - :bronzong: (0- 0IV)


From December 22, 2019, to October 11, 2020, Arceus with 100 EVs in 5 stats (Farceus) was allowed in DPP Ubers. This is the most optimal Arceus that is cartridge-legal in DPP. Following nearly a year of inclusion in the Ubers Tournament Circuit, the pre- and post-Farceus playerbase banned it with a very slim 62.5% majority, making Arceus the only Pokemon to ever be banned from any Ubers generation as of now. The only DPP resources created during this time were a lead guide by Lasen, adapted from iris's old one, and a viability ranking, created on the last day of Farceus being the official metagame. Both are posted below.

Farceus Generation 4 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • The ability Multitype prevents Arceus from getting Tricked
Every rank is sorted internally.

S Rank

:kyogre: Kyogre
:dialga: Dialga
:giratina-origin: Giratina-Origin

A Rank

A+


:darkrai: Darkrai
:groudon: Groudon
:arceus: Arceus
:arceus: Arceus-Fighting
:latias: Latias

A

:latios: Latios
:palkia: Palkia
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:deoxys-speed: Deoxys-Speed
:garchomp: Garchomp
:Arceus-Steel: Arceus-Steel

A-

:arceus-ghost: Arceus Ghost
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:kabutops: Kabutops
:skarmory: Skarmory
:jirachi: Jirachi
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:forretress: Forretress

B Rank

B+


:tentacruel: Tentacruel
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
:giratina: Giratina
:lugia: Lugia
:blissey: Blissey
:bronzong: Bronzong
:arceus-ground: Arceus-Ground
:heatran: Heatran
:wobbuffet: Wobbuffet

B

:qwilfish: Qwilfish
:froslass: Froslass
:arceus: Arceus-Electric:
:arceus-grass: Arceus-Grass
:arceus: Arceus-Water
:arceus: Arceus-Dragon
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky
:manaphy: Manaphy
:kingdra: Kingdra

B-

:ludicolo: Ludicolo
:scizor: Scizor
:arceus-dark: Arceus-Dark
:cloyster: Cloyster

C Rank

C+


:mew: Mew
:Arceus: Arceus-Rock
:infernape: Infernape
:gliscor: Gliscor
:heracross: Heracross
:cresselia: Cresselia

C

:arceus-ice: Arceus-Ice
:arceus-Poison: Arceus-Poison
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-Defense
:shiftry: Shiftry

C-

:arceus: Arceus-Bug
:arceus: Arceus-Flying
:omastar: Omastar

D Rank

:salamence: Salamence
:Arceus: Arceus-Fire
:deoxys: Deoxys
:arceus-psychic: Arceus-Psychic

E Rank

:wynaut: Wynaut
DPP lead guide

(Not Really Ordered)
  1. Deoxys-Speed
The lead you must beat. if it can get 2+ layers on your team for sure, you should consider a lead change. The momentum one gets from SR + spikes makes HO the best and most consistent play style. Can be EV'd and has a movepool just large enough to beat almost any other lead.
  • -Focus Sash: Taunt, Spikes/Stealth Rock, Shadow Ball, Psycho Boost/Extreme Speed/Stealth Rock – standard deoxys. usually what one wants to counter. Psycho Boost nails Tentacruel (requires investment), Shadow Ball is the mirror, while Extreme Speed only allows 1 layer from Deo-A leads. Taunt depending on how much you want to stop opposing lead from setting-up hazards. 20+ Speed outspeeds Deoxys-Attack, scarfed Neutral natured base 95s or lower (eg. scarf Ogre, Lonely Rayquaza) max speed forces speed ties and allows Taunt vs. opposing Deoxys-Speed.
  • Offensive Sash: Shadow Ball, Spikes, HP Fire, Extreme Speed/Taunt – This set foregoes speed and potential longevity in order to be able to beat potential Forretress leads/switches, while also keeping opposing Deoxys to only one Hazard. Rash Nature forces Forre to be running SDef to avoid the OHKO.
  • Colbur Anti-Dark: 252hp 164 SpD (lives non LO ray draco 100%) Spikes, Superpower, E-Speed/Shadow Ball, Taunt/Stealth Rocks. The crux is EVs in combination with the Berry. Superpower kills Lum Tyranitar and Darkrai while also avoiding the OHKO from their respective STAB dark-type moves. Gameplan is to set up Spikes on Ttar, live the attack and then Superpower turn 2 to break its sash. 168 Attack EVs needed to OHKO Max HP Tyranitar, whereas uninvested kills equally uninvested Tar. Darkrai always dodges the OHKO, with or without a Chope Berry adorned to it.
  • Trick Scarf – A good way to handle other Deo-S without fearing speed ties, as well as crippling multiple other leads with a Trick. Speed is provided through Choice Scarf, so you can focus on bulk, instead. A spread of 248 HP / 164 Def / 96+ SpD avoids 2HKO from opposing Deoxys-S Shadow Ball, with the rest put in defense to take Tyranitar as well as possible.
  1. Darkrai
2 sets, Choice Scarf and not

  • Scarf – Dark Void, Dark Pulse, Trick, Focus Blast, Taunt / Focus Blast / Nasty Plot. Beats most leads 85% of the time. loses to Lum TTar (can’t OHKO) but can “beat” non Lum, Kyogre consistently beats (Either it’s also Scarfed, Lum or runs Sleep Talk) and Dialga. Mew is another lead you beat on paper, but is item dependent. Beats all Deoxys leads and Rayquaza lead.
  • Non Scarf aka Lum aka Focus Sash aka Chople aka Life Orb – Dark Void, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Taunt / Thunder Wave / Nasty Plot / Will-O-Wisp / Thunder / Quick Attack. The itemisation on lead Darkrai is almost as long as the list of viable items in this gen. Beats everything except the ones mentioned above and the rare M2. Trades a possible extra layer for more pressure against teams. 125 speed is the 4th highest in the tier (deoxys / mewtwo / skymin) so darkrai forces a scarf if these mons aren’t on the opponent’s team. First three moves are necessary, last one you have options.
Items:
  • Chople – loses to rare Scarf leads to 100% beat TTar, a lead created to stop Darkrai, and Deoxys-A. still loses to mewtwo because mewtwo doesn’t die to one pulse. Potentially beats Deoxys-Speed, item dependent.
  • Lum – loses to ttar in exchange to beat old school leads and get the jump on balance teams,as the way balance deals with darkrai is Status or a scarf. Harder for it to beat Deo-S leads.
(Note: Both items still make the darkrai mirror a guessing game.)
  • Life Orb – Only seen on the NP set. tries to put immediate pressure. But without SR, you can’t get the kills as easily, so try and preserve.
The 4th Move:
  • NP – Immediate pressure. leans towards all out offense where you don’t mind trading 1v1. good on wobb teams to force out the scarf
  • WoW – tries to catch balance teams off guard. Most common switch-ins to Darkrai after Void connects are Kyogre, Dialga, Jirachi, and Scizor. This catches the latter two off guard and makes them usually worthless,while also stacking residual damage on the former two.
  • Thunder – for sun teams or teams that trouble with Kyogre. It also has the added benefit of paralyzing 30% but mainly you want the 2HKOon RestOgre.
  • QA / Sucker – QA helps against Deoxys. useful on spike weak teams (usually 5 grounded mons and a gira / ray). The only noteworthy use is the super rare ninjask. Sucker helps against the mewtwo revenge, adds a little more chip on giras when darkrai is in sneak range. Sucker should only be used if you expect a Mewtwo lead.
  • Thunderwave – tries to catch the Scarfer switching-in. Good for teams that struggle with speed control on their other members. Most teams would appreciate the pressure the first 3 moves on the list bring.
  1. Rayquaza

Life Orb Mixed – Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, ExtremeSpeed Brick Break / Earthquake. Outrage is super rare. Break on LO is recommended so Lum TTar dies immediately. Speed creep caps with 216 Speed, which outspeeds Neutral natured base 90s(Dialga Don, Ogre). Special Attack is prioritised over Attack as. Can potentially run a set-up move in order to put more offensive pressure on fatter teams, but usually loses even harder to Deoxys Leads that way. Sash should be considered if that’s the case.
Lum Berry targets Darkrai and Groudon leads, or stray Mews that might try to Thunder Wave. Power drop is noticeable. Focus Sash makes sure you survive whichever one hit your opponent throws at you and is pretty good when you want to preserve Rayquaza for the mid-late game.
  1. Tyranitar
2 sets, the sets are honestly 50/50 - depends on the player
  • Lum / Focus Sash / Chople 252 HP / enough SpD to live darkrai Blast (248/68 but more is viable to survive Modest Kyogre) / 188+Atk. Adamant/Brave. Payback, Stealth Rock, Superpower/Low Kick/Earthquake, Fire Blast / Thunder Wave / Stone Edge. beats Deoxys, Froslass, Darkrai, Dialga Forretress. Earthquake is used to beat Tentacruel leads. Stone Edge is used just as a strong STAB,as it doesn’t actually hit something meaningful besides Rayquaza. Thunder-Wave is used in the last slot when you want to incapacitate whatever comes in after the suicide lead. Low Kick is preferred if you plan to keep Tyranitar for the long game. Ttars best quality is his longevity. Unlike Deoxys or Darkrai, TTar will come back in the game. Chople is an option if you don’t wanna invest in bulk but want to survive Superpower or Focus Blast.
(Note: Takes 80 Spa to ohko forrey 100% of the time with a Brave Nature, Adamant can kill non Max-max)

  • Sash 252 Speed / 80 SpA / 176 Attack Hasty. Low Kick, Fire Blast / Stealth Rocks, Crunch, SRocks / Stone Edge- This set changes TTar from a mere Darkrai counter to mainly deoxys / froslass counter. the extra speed allows ttar to punish greedier teams that don’t attack it. best on up tempo teams that don’t mind sacrificing ttar early for good damage on the opponents likely base 90 mon.
  • Other Moves:
    • Pursuit – Only on the lum set too. For teams that need a good lead and benefit from spinning or a dead latias / latios.
    • Rest – Best used with pursuit and a chesto berry. a paralyzed brave ttar is fine, and you don’t want to waste your lum on that. the price of 2 lost turns is too steep.
The next tier hazard leads
  1. Tentacruel
Timid Lum – Hydro Pump, Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, Icy Wind
216+ Speed outspeeds +Spd Rayquaza, 176+ creeps base +Spd 90s. 40HP / 204 SDef avoids OHKO from standard Deo-S Psycho Boost. 40 HP needed to live through Payback + sand from standard Tyranitar. Rest of the EVs are usually put in SAtk. Lum berry is mandatory as very few things threaten with an OHKO and it invalidates Darkrai as well as T-Wave spreaders such as Dialga.Cruel has the benefit of beating Deoxys-Speed, Darkrai and Ray. base 100 speed is useful in getting up toxic spikes which is the best hazard in DPP Ubers, as only very few Pokemon are immune + not SR weak in top tier competition. Fits both stall and offensive builds, as it softens breakers and walls alike. Has the added benefit of coming back in and absorbing the T-spikes.
  1. Deoxys-A
Sash Extreme Lead - Spikes, Superpower, Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse, Extreme Speed / Psycho Boost / Icy Wind / Fire Punch
Deoxys’ Attack form trades Speed form’s decent-to-good Tyranitar match-up for a good match-up against the other common hazard leads. Pressures Deoxys-Speed into only getting one layer of hazards up as it commonly drops Extreme Speed for a better utility move. Max speed is mandatory to outspeed anything that isn’t scarfed or named Deo-S. Superpower from max ATK with a Neutral Nature has a 44% chance of OHKOing uninvested TTar through Chople Berry, but 220 is enough to OHKO standard Blissey.
Psycho Boost nails Rayquaza and Tentacruel as well as potential Ghost-types wishing to switch-in on the predicted Extreme Speed. Other potential moves include Fire Punch for lead Forretress and Scizor, Signal beam to cover Darkrai and Deoxys at the same time and Stealth Rocks, but they’re all situational at best. Taunt, while appealing, fits better on something that can take a hit or two, meaning you might as well be running Deoxys-Speed at that point. Use only for the surprise factor. Icy Wind is even more niche, allowing you to win the Deo-S match-up 95% of the time. Usually ran without E-Speed, meaning you lose the mirror.
  1. Froslass
Sash Lead – 252+ Speed / 252 SpA. Spikes, Icy Wind, Shadow Ball, Taunt / Destiny Bond / Ice Shard
Froslass is a decent Spike lead that provides spin-blocking against the likes of Tentacruel or Forretress. It can beat both Deoxys forms and the rare Ray, but hard loses to Darkrai and TTar. Watch out for the rare Icy Wind Deo-A if you’re not running Ice Shard.

Final Moveslot:
  • Ice Shard – Helpful for the mirror and for removing Deo-A. End result should be a win without risking a 50-50. Also provides valuable momentum in the HO vs. HO match-up, something that’s ever so valuable.
  • Taunt – Best for T-Spikes weak teams, as nothing that uses T-Spikes in Ubers is faster than Froslass. Extremely useful in lead match-ups that don’t go for hazards such as the weather duo, as well as slower leads that lack priority.
  • Destiny Bond – A gimmicky option, since you can’t afford Taunt + DBond to have them continually switching. Any status move will just kill you, only run this if you live inside the opponent’s head rent-free.
  1. Dialga
Lum Bulky Stealth Rocks – 252 HP / 112 Speed / 144+ SpA. Draco Meteor, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave / Flamethrower, Thunder / Aura Sphere
A very strong anti-lead, Dialga functions quite similarly to the way it functions in the non lead slot; as a general Ghost/Water/Special attacking sponge. Lum Berry gets the beat on Darkrai which can’t beat you unless they’re running Life Orb and get a high roll on Focus Blast. Speed is enough to creep on Jolly Max-Speed TTar. Thunder Wave incapacitates whatever wishes to come in after you deal with the opposing lead. Thunder lands a hefty hit on Kyogre, while Aura Sphere attempts to deal with Tyranitar. Flamethrower is for the Steels that might attempt to switch-in and lead Forre.
  1. Forretress
THE NUT – 252 hp / 252+ SpD / 4 Atk. (Toxic) Spikes, Rapid Spin, Payback, (Toxic) Spikes / Protect / Pain Split / Toxic / Sleep Talk / Explosion / Stealth Rock
Forretress feats best on stall teams that have a Lugia or hate Spikes, as well as Ho-Oh suns. There is a distinct lack of Pursuit abusers in DPP Ubers outside of the occasional scarf Tyranitar, so stall teams can afford this anti-lead to slow down the game by setting up their hazards, or preventing hazard(s) from Deoxys with an extremely slow spin. Specially Defensive Forretress lives Fire Blast from the usual Tyranitar so it guarantees either one layer for yourself or a lack of hazards on your side of the field. Payback is necessary to hit a Ghost-type that tries to spin-block you if they were allowed a hazard up on a misprediction on your part.
Occa Berry lets you set-up Toxic Spikes against every lead except Life Orb Rayquaza and Scarf Kyogre, while Lum guarantees a layer against Darkrai.

Final Move:
  • Protect – scouts the myriad choice users in the tier. Also provides extra Lefties recovery + Poison damage racks up from T-Spikes.
  • Pain Split – helps combat Gira-O when you don’t have a pursuiter, deals more damage than Payback in the long run.
  • Sleep Talk – a neat tech move against teams that want a spin vs. Darkrai teams. Makes up for its inconsistency by being godlike in its good match-up.
  • Toxic – again, for Giratina-O. Has little utility outside that since most switch-ins on Forrey are Steel-types..
  • Explosion – seen on more balance teams. maybe gets a kill on greedy Lati or Kyogre.
  • Stealth Rocks – relatively easy to fit on a different member, only run if you can’t find a single other Pokemon to run them on.
  1. Metagross
Steel Anti-Lead – Focus Sash/ Lum 252+ Atk / 252 Speed / Meteor Mash, Bull Punch, Stealth Rock, Explosion
Metagross is a potent Anti-lead that provides rocks, being able to sponge attacks from every lead except Life Orb Rayquaza and revenge killing them with BP. It mostly takes advantage of its inherent bulk to avoid OHKOs from the most common leads. Lum as always answers Darkrai quite nicely. A Jolly nature can be run to outspeed Tyranitar, but that’s not of much importance when you just kill it with priority. Unlike many of the other leads on here, Metagross isn’t scared of trading kills with a well-timed Explosion, as it usually leads to getting a great momentum lead, which can be the difference between winning or losing any given match in DPP.
  1. Cloyster
Focus Sash Lead – Toxic Spikes, Payback, Ice Shard, Spikes / Rapid Spin / Explosion
Max Speed and Attack is needed to get the jump on Tyranitar leads and deal as much damage as possible. Cloyster is a remnant of the past and a more aggressive Toxic Spikes setter than Tentacruel because it can set regular Spikes. Anything else is largely the same or worse matchups except super rare leads like skymin. The only defining better matchup is froslass. Deoxys-S tends to be way bulkier than it used to be, so Payback -> Ice Shard is no longer a guaranteed kill. Final move is dependent on whether you struggle with steals, want to punish greedy leads or definitely need hazards removed. Adamant nature can be run if you want to have a chance to kill Deo-S with a combination of Payback + Ice Shard but you can then lose to Edge Tyranitar.
  1. Qwilfish
Sash Rain Abuser – 252 Atk / 252+ Speed Toxic Spikes, Payback, Aqua Jet, Explosion, Destiny Bond / Spikes
The extremely weird mixture of Tentacruel and Cloyster. Can absorb Toxic Spikes for your team potentially, but switching it in at any point means mistakes were made. Aqua Jet has worse offensive type coverage than Ice Shard on top of everything else, but at least you can outspeed and kill any Kyogre.
  1. Mamoswine
“Ancient” Sash lead – 252+ Atk / 252 Speed / Earthquake, Ice Shard, Stealth Rock, Endeavor
2007 OU lead now in Ubers! Will allow you to beat a newer player that doesn’t quite know what this ‘mon does or what Endeavour is, but its speed tier is honestly very bad for Ubers standards. Beats Deoxys, Rayquaza, Dialga as well as Dialga. Relies heavily on surprise factor and the opponent’s inexperience.
  1. Groudon
SunSetter – 240 HP / 176+ Def / 8 SpD / 88 Speed / Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Roar, Overheat, Stone Edge / Thunder Wave / Roar
Groudon is an oddity of a lead, as it provides a ton on paper but actually struggles to fulfill its role in action. Just like many other leads, it catches people by surprise and beats common leads but allows Deo-S to get 2 layers up. It sets up sun nicely and can take a hit from Kyogre, dealing massive damage in the process. Darkrai can meet a similar fate if Lum Berry is elected as the item of choice, as well as Tentacruel. However, leading Groudon has the downside of revealing the value sun plays for your team early and as it lacks consistent recovery not named leftovers, it gets chipped down pretty easily. Stone Edge is the go-to if you wish to hit the likes of Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, while Thunder-wave catches the various dragons and possible Giratinas that might wish to switch-in. Dragon Claw deals decent damage vs. Latis and Gira-O, but also require a hard read and they don’t OHKO. Still a decent middle ground, tho.
  1. Mew
Lum Anti-Lead – 252 HP 252+ Speed / U-Turn, Stealth Rock, Explosion, Taunt.
Another legacy lead, this Mew set is designed to Taunt slower mons like Tentacruel and absorb the taunt from Deoxys, U-Turn out and revenge kill. With the bulk that current day leads run, this is pretty difficult to pull off consistently. Fire Blast gets a node as the only way Mew has to touch Forretress. Any other option is better fit on a Mewtwo lead. Tyranitar and Tentacruel match-ups are reliant on whatever you both click and can go either way, but Taunt off of base 100 Speed shuts down all the lesser leads that you outspeed.
  1. Armaldo
Lum Spinner – 252 HP / 252+ / Atk / X-Scissor, Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Rock Blast / Aqua Jet
The ultimate DPP gimmick lead, Armaldo can both safely spin in front of Deoxys and Absorb Darkrai’s Sleep, while also threatening to set-up rocks. Slow spin is appreciated as you can’t really outspeed anything anyway. Aqua Jet can be used if you’re confident you’re gonna live the hit from Deo-A.
Note: Rock Blast does not break sashes in DPP.
  1. Infernape
Sash lead – 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 208+ Speed Naive / Fake Out, Overheat / Fire Blast, Close Combat, Stealth Rock
Ape has a decent Speed tier, and a pretty good offensive typing, with Fire/Fighting covering pretty much every lead. Between Fake Out and Overheat, Ape can consistently kill lead Deoxys that forego bulk for attacking stats. Close Combat is pretty good at shutting down Kyogre and Dialga leads and cleans Tyranitar with ease. Darkrai however poses a big problem as it sleeps you no questions asked, while Froslass Spikes multiple times in front of you. Tentacruel resists all your moves and doesn’t mind taking a slap to the wrist in exchange for Toxic Spiking and potentially a decent hit with Icy Wind or Hydro Pump on your expected switch, while it also keeps hazards off of its side of the field.
  1. Ariados
Sash Spider – 252+ Atk / 252 Spe / X-Scissor, Toxic Spikes, Shadow Sneak, Baton Pass
Nothing shows dominance quite like bringing a big tarantula who’s highest stat barely breaks the 300 point mark, in Ubers no less. Ariados has access to Insomnia, making it capable of being a pretty great Darkrai answer, being able to bring it down with a well-timed X-Scissor combined with Shadow Sneak. The above combo also works vs. Deoxys. Baton Pass is useful for getting the jump on a double, without the risk of wasting HP on the Pokemon you want to bring in. Loses to anything not mentioned above, hard
  1. Deoxys-Normal

Sash Inferiority Syndrome – 112 Def 146 SAtk / 252 Speed Naive / Spikes, Stealth Rock, Shadow Ball, Extreme Speed
Imagine, if you will, a Deoxys-Attack that can potentially win the mirror but doesn’t get the kills it’s supposed to. That’s Deoxys-Normal. It does what Deo-A does, but slightly worse with its upside being… the chance to beat its brother. Don’t bother unless you want to be that guy.

Anti-Hazard Leads with no hazards
  1. Mewtwo
Boom Lum – 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252+ Speed Naive / Taunt, Icy Wind, Shadow Ball / Thunder, Selfdestruct / Aura Sphere / Psychic
Mewtwo’s amazing combination of stats and practically limitless movepool has always been envied, and this lead set utilises to its fullest extent. Slow hazard leads can easily be Taunted and later disposed of, while Deoxys-S loses to the combination of Icy Wind and Shadow Ball. Selfdestruct removes problematic set-up sweepers as well weather leads. Darkrai is scared off by a potential Aura Sphere as it doesn’t always OHKO with Dark Pulse, while Psychic can deal with Tentacruel if T-Spikes seem problematic. Tyranitar will survive any hit from Mewtwo and OHKO back with either Payback or Crunch, so be weary of that. Mewtwo has a good enough movepool to fit practically anything on it, so don’t be afraid to experiment.
  1. Shaymin-Sky
Scarf Anti-Lead – 252+ SpA / 252 Speed / Seed Flare / Leaf Storm, Air Slash, HP Ice, Earth Power / Healing Wish
This goal of this set is to take down the two most common leads in Darkrai and Deoxys without them getting a single move off 60% of the time. Relies quite a bit on luck. Leaf storm can OHKO Kyogre leads and 0 bulk TTar that isn’t running Sash. While it does force the opponents to reveal their scarfers earlier than usual, it’s STAB coverage is blindly walled by multiple Steels in the tier, with Grass being extremely easily resisted in a tier full of Dragon-types. Healing Wish is a situational move, don’t forget it comes after hazards in this gen! A Timid nature is preferred if you’re scared of Scarf Darkrai.
  1. Kyogre
2 Sets
  • Lum Para spreader – 144 HP / 252+ SpA / 112 Speed / Surf, Ice Beam, Thunder, Thunder Wave.
Establishes weather early on and beats Darkrai and Tyranitar by trading with Deoxys. Most consistent lead move vs. either Deoxys lead is Thunder, as it has the capacity to stop them from getting 2 layers up. Overall, be cautious of Spikes stacking when using this.

Note: thunder the deoxys over t-wave. 2HKO + 30% para over 25%
  • Modest Scarf – WaterSpout, Hydro Pump / Surf,Ice Beam, Thunder
Quite old, but gets the jump on people who don’t expect you to still be running this. Can OHKO non Sash leads, only being forced to switch-out of a Dialga lead. Misses important OHKOs and 2HKOs without the benefit of hazard damage but can still work.
  1. Giratina-Origin
Consistent Anti Lead and the best non hazard based one. Only problem is Gira does too much for teams sometimes (Consistent 50+ to Psychics) that you must be careful about taking damage.
EVs depend too much on the rest of the team, should at least be 112 to outspeed Tyranitar. A sample spread can be 192 Atk / 64 SpA / 252 Speed Naive.The only two constants are your STABs: Shadow Sneak, Draco Meteor / Dragon Claw
The other 2 moveslot can be:

  • HP Fire: Forretress / Scizor / Skarmory repellent, albeit Skarm shrugs it off if sun hasn’t been set-up.
  • Second Dragon move: In case you’re scared of Dracos missing or want to hit on both the Physical and the Special attacking spectrum. Outrage 2HKOs bulky Dialga
  • EQ: Jirachi + Heatran. gets the beat on Dialga, safe and consistent
  • Thunder: Kyogre + Efficient skarm removal. Works best on your own rain teams.
  • Will-o-Wisp: Best suited for the long game. wants to target Groudon / Support Dialga / TTar, but residual damage on anything is good
  • Thunder-Wave / Toxic: best for stall builds, helps incapacitate potential threats
  • Shadow Ball: Special Ghost move, doesn’t hit something in particular.
  1. Scizor
Anti-Dark lead – 252 HP / 40+ Atk / 216 SpD Lum Berry / U-Turn, Bullet Punch, Pursuit / Toxic, Roost
Yet another momentum-based lead not much unlike Mew, but with the added benefit of being able to beat Darkrai easily and trapping Froslass, in exchange for not providing hazard support nor control. Pursuit / Toxic is a toss up for what you want. You could run both over roost but you lose the ability to continually switch on Fire-less Dragons such as Latias. Fits great on some teams, but isn’t usually recommended.
  1. Ninjask
Baton Pass Lead – 216 Atk / 108 Def / 184+ Speed / Baton Pass, X-Scissor, Swords Dance, Substitute / Protect / Flash (Liechi Berry)
Ninjask does what it’s been doing since its release; passing Speed Boosts to Pokemon that are hard hitters. The crux of this set is being able to avoid dying to any one hit and then passing a Speed and possibly an Attack boost onto a powerful sweeper. X-Scissor beats Deoxys which is the only mon that is gonna Taunt you. Defense EVs mean you live the E-Speed from Ray and Deo-A with enough HP to make a Sub and pass successfully. The issue lies in the fact that anything on the opposing team that can phase you out will come in and foil your plans with the greatest of ease and of course multiple different Pokemon just straight up killing you, such as Tyranitar.
  1. Ho-Oh
Lead Rooster– 144 HP / 252+ Atk / 112 Speed / Sacred Fire, Brave Bird, Earthquake, Sleep Talk / Roost
Ho-Oh is quite possibly the most underrated anti-lead currently on the landscape. Its STAB combination is unparalleled, being able to hit everything that isn’t a Rock-Type. Sacred Fire’s high crit rate also provides a concise answer to Deoxys-Speed, no matter its set. Darkrai is also covered with a Lum Berry or Sleep Talk, freeing your team from the shackles of adding secondary sleep absorbers. Ho-Oh isn’t a typical lead as it can be used in the midgame as a breaker, too. The Speed guarantees you creep past max speed Tyranitar and blow it away with Earthquake.
 
Last edited:

Lasen

smiling through it all
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:groudon:Advance Generation:kyogre:

Generation 3 mechanics relevant to Ubers:

  • Struggle recoil 25 % of damage inflicted to opponent. Consequently: Lefties+Wobbuffet (Wynaut) is banned
  • Special or physical depends on type, not on the move itself
  • Difference in turn mechanics: comprehensive list can be found here
  • Turns spent using Sleep Talk when sleeping will be reset upon switching out
  • KO by spikes or self-KO ends turn
  • Outrage has 90 base power
  • Encore lasts 2-6 turns
  • Taunt lasts for 2 turns
Every rank is sorted internally.

S Rank

:kyogre: Kyogre
:groudon: Groudon
:latios: Latios
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-A

A Rank

A+


:snorlax: Snorlax
:blissey: Blissey
:latias: Latias
:mewtwo: Mewtwo

A

:metagross: Metagross
:forretress: Forretress
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:lugia: Lugia

A-

:heracross: Heracross
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-D
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:skarmory: Skarmory

B Rank

B+


:jirachi: Jirachi
:gengar: Gengar
:magneton: Magneton
:wobbuffet: Wobbuffet
:omastar: Omastar
:mew: Mew

B

:dusclops: Dusclops
:umbreon: Umbreon
:deoxys-speed: Deoxys-S
:exeggutor: Exeggutor
:qwilfish: Qwilfish
:salamence: Salamence
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
:smeargle: Smeargle
:ninjask: Ninjask
:celebi: Celebi
:dugtrio: Dugtrio
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:slaking: Slaking

B-

:victreebel: Victreebel
:kabutops: Kabutops
:cloyster: Cloyster
:shedinja: Shedinja

C Rank

:steelix: Steelix
:ludicolo: Ludicolo
:regice: Regice
:weezing: Weezing
:regirock: Regirock
:deoxys: Deoxys
:shiftry: Shiftry
:registeel: Registeel
:flygon: Flygon
:starmie: Starmie

D Rank

:mr_mime: Mr. Mime
:wynaut: Wynaut
Dusclops Sunstall (RED!) by Exiline
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Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Overheat
- Swords Dance

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Explosion
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Fire
- Recover

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Light Screen
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 72 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Reflect
- Whirlwind
- Recover

Dusclops (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 20 Def / 12 SpA / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Pursuit
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest
Lugia has Special Defense rather than Speed so as to check Latias and Kyogre better when under Light Screen. The Speed investment on Groudon is highly flexibie, as is Groudon's coverage. Be sure to have something around to KO SubSalac Groudon if it's the opponent's last Pokemon.

Spikes-Stacking Rainstall by various users
1617722005377.png
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1617722042934.png
1617722049852.png

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Roar

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 168 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
- Earthquake

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Recover

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Calm Mind

Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Recover

Rain Boomspam by Holy Ghost
1617722975723.png
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Mewtwo @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Self-Destruct
- Fire Blast

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Refresh
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 HP / 96 Atk / 84 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Self-Destruct
- Curse
- Rest

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
- Earthquake

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 240 Atk / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Explosion

Heracross Rain by 0kay
:kyogre::blissey::latios::skarmory::heracross::deoxys-attack:
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Roar
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 188 HP / 68 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Recover

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pursuit
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Heracross @ Salac Berry
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
- Pursuit

SubCM Mewtwo Rain by Inspirited
:kyogre::mewtwo::latios::forretress::snorlax::deoxys-attack:
Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 236 HP / 220 Def / 16 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 204 HP / 84 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Substitute

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
- Earthquake

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 104 HP / 140 Atk / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Protect
- Shadow Ball

Deoxys-Attack @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- Extreme Speed
- Pursuit

Deoxys-Attack Sunstall by Ismakhil
:groudon::forretress::blissey::latias::ho-oh::deoxys-attack:
Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Toxic
- Protect

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe
Calm Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 92 Def / 84 SpD
Careful Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Fire
- Toxic
- Recover

Deoxys-Attack @ Spell Tag
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
Lati Checks:



Kyogre Check:



Groudon Checks:



Deoxys-A Checks:



Normal Resists:



Spikes:



Rapid Spin:



Trappers:



Cleric, Wish, Screens:
512 -
(0 in sun)
475 -
(252+ at +1)
442 -
(156 at +1) (252+ at +1)
441 -
(180+)
440 -
(16+), (56 in rain), (96 in sun), (96 in rain)
438 -
(252+)
433 -
(252 at +1)
405 -
(120+ at +1)
403 -
(252 at +1)
400 -
(216 in rain)
---[Above Standard Deo-A]----------
399 -
(252)
394 -
(252+)
361 -
(252+)
360 -
(136 in sun)
359 -
(252)
---[Base 110+]----------
350 -
(252+)
339 -
(252)
328 -
(252+)
320 -
(140+)
319 -
(252)
317 -
(252+)
306 -
(252+)
299 -
(252)
295 -
(252+)
289 -
(252)
280 -
(176)
279 -
(252)
270 -
(120+)
---[Invested Base 90+]----------
269 -
(252)
262 -
(252+)
256 -
(0)
239 -
(252)
236 -
(0)
220 -
(56), (96)
216 -
(0)
---[Uninvested Base 90+]----------
200 -
(216)
180 -
(136)
176 -
(0)
166 -
(0)
158 -
(0)
147 -
(128+)
146 -
(0)
136 -
(0)
116 -
(0)
96 -
(0)
86 -
(0)
82 -
(0)

Mini-analyses thread by Shrang
 
Last edited:

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:ho-oh:Gold, Silver, and Crystal:lugia:

Generation 2 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • No abilities or natures
  • 252 EVs in all 6 stats
  • IVs are replaced with DVs: 0-15 instead of the usual 0-31
  • Sleep lasts 2-7 turns
  • No more than 1 layer of Spikes is possible
  • Provided the user is not at full health, Sleep Talk can pick the move Rest and succeed, healing the user and resetting sleep turns.
    • This also negates the effect of Sleep-inducing moves, allowing the opponent to Sleep one of your Pokemon again.
  • Toxic reverts to normal poison upon switch-out
  • Toxic and Leech Seed damage applies after the use of a move, not on a switch.
    • Neither applies at the end of a turn where the opponent's Pokemon is KO'd.
  • Belly Drum glitch: when below 50 % health, the user is granted +2 Attack without any HP being deducted.
  • There is a 1/256 chance that 100% secondary effects of attacking moves such as Thief or Dynamic Punch will not have their secondary effect applied.
  • Pokemon now have a 10% chance to thaw from frozen status
    • Fire-type attacks, except Hidden Power Fire, will thaw a Frozen target.
    • Pokemon cannot move on the turn they thaw, unless their opponent's attack thaws them.
  • Shiny Pokemon are not recommended; DVs determine whether Pokemon are shiny or not, and shinies have imperfect DVs.
  • If both players use a phazing move at the same time, the faster phazer's move fails.
    • This also applies when one of the phazing Pokemon is asleep.
  • Draining moves always miss against Pokemon that are behind Substitutes.
  • When Skarmory and Lugia use Curse behind Reflect, their Defense stats will overflow, becoming very low. This also applies to Thick Club 15 Attack DVs Marowak's Attack stat after it uses a Swords Dance, Shuckle's unboosted Defense behind Reflect, Barrier Mewtwo behind Reflect, and so forth.
  • Counter works on every Hidden Power type.
  • Critical hits ignore the Attack drop from burns.
  • If the Attack stat of the Pokemon landing a critical hit is higher than the Defense of its foe, then a critical hit will ignore any stat changes on either side of the field.
S Rank:

S


Snorlax
Mew
Mewtwo


A Rank:

A1


Zapdos
Cloyster
Lugia
Tyranitar
Forretress
Raikou

A2

Steelix
Celebi
Golem


B Rank:

B1


Jolteon
Ho-Oh

B2

Rhydon
Skarmory
Umbreon
Gengar


C Rank:

C1


Blissey
Heracross
Vaporeon
Misdreavus
Marowak
Exeggutor

C2

Quagsire
Starmie
Jynx
Suicune
Miltank

C3

Shuckle
Houndoom
Smeargle
Muk
Scizor
Ho-Oh Celebi + MeanPass by Conflict
:snorlax::celebi::forretress::golem::ho-oh::umbreon:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
- Lovely Kiss
- Rest
- Curse
- Double-Edge

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
- Heal Bell
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Giga Drain

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
- Explosion
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Roar
- Explosion

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Recover

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
- Baton Pass
- Charm
- Mean Look
- Rest

Barrier Mewtwo + Thief Gengar by Inder
:snorlax::forretress::tyranitar::zapdos::mewtwo::gengar:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: None
- Double-Edge
- Curse
- Rest
- Lovely Kiss

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: None
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spikes
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: None
- Rock Slide
- Curse
- Rest
- Roar

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: None
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: None
- Flamethrower
- Barrier
- Toxic
- Recover

Gengar
Ability: None
- Ice Punch
- Dynamic Punch
- Thief
- Explosion

Big Six by Isa
:snorlax::zapdos::mew::mewtwo::tyranitar::cloyster:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Lovely Kiss
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Curse

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: none
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Explosion
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Submission

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Barrier
- Recover
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Rest
- Roar
- Curse
- Rock Slide

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Spikes
- Surf
- Icy Wind
- Explosion

Golem boom offense by zf
:snorlax::zapdos::forretress::mew::mewtwo::golem:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Double-Edge
- Lovely Kiss
- Curse
- Rest

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
- Swords Dance

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Submission
- Self-Destruct

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Explosion
- Roar

Jolteon Growthpass by zf
:snorlax::mew::jolteon::mewtwo::tyranitar::cloyster:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Double-Edge
- Lovely Kiss
- Curse
- Self-Destruct

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
- Swords Dance

Jolteon @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Growth
- Baton Pass

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Self-Destruct

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Surf
- Icy Wind
- Explosion
- Spikes

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Roar

Lugia Balance by Mr.378
:snorlax::mewtwo::mew::lugia::steelix::cloyster:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Double-Edge
- Lovely Kiss
- Curse
- Rest

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Self-Destruct

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Swords Dance

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Curse
- Recover
- Aeroblast
- Whirlwind

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Curse

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Explosion
- Spikes

Cloyster Boom Offense by 64 Squares
:mewtwo::mew::snorlax::zapdos::steelix::cloyster:
Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Self-Destruct

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Submission
- Shadow Ball
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Lovely Kiss
- Curse
- Double-Edge
- Rest

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Explosion

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Spikes
- Surf
- Toxic
- Explosion

Rhydon Balance by steelskitty
:snorlax::mew::zapdos::rhydon::forretress::celebi:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Lovely Kiss
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Rest

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Submission
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Soft-Boiled

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Thunder
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Rhydon @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Curse
- Roar
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spikes

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Heal Bell
- Toxic
- Recover
- Leech Seed
Snorlax Check
:lugia::mewtwo::celebi::cloyster::forretress::gengar::golem::miltank::misdreavus::rhydon::skarmory::steelix::tyranitar::umbreon::shuckle::scizor:
Mew Check
:celebi::Ho-Oh::Lugia::Mewtwo::Mew::Cloyster::Exeggutor::Forretress::Golem::Heracross::Raikou::Rhydon::Skarmory::Steelix::Suicune::Zapdos::Shuckle:
Mewtwo Check
:ho-oh::mew::mewtwo::blissey::raikou::snorlax::umbreon::zapdos::quagsire:
Lugia Check
:Golem::Miltank::Raikou::Rhydon::Skarmory::Steelix::Tyranitar::Umbreon::Zapdos::Jolteon:
Tyranitar Check
:Forretress::Golem::Heracross::Marowak::Miltank::Raikou::Rhydon::Skarmory::Snorlax::Steelix::Suicune::Tyranitar::Umbreon::Vaporeon::Quagsire:
Electric Sponge
:Celebi::blissey::Exeggutor::Marowak::Raikou::Snorlax::Steelix::Tyranitar::Jolteon::Quagsire:
Ground Sponge
:Celebi::Mewtwo::Cloyster::Exeggutor::Miltank::Skarmory::Starmie::Suicune::Umbreon::Vaporeon::Zapdos:
Phazer
:Ho-Oh::lugia::golem::raikou::rhydon::steelix::suicune::tyranitar::zapdos:
Status Absorber
:celebi::blissey::heracross::marowak::miltank::raikou::skarmory::snorlax::steelix::suicune::tyranitar::umbreon::zapdos::Muk::Shuckle:
Curser
:Celebi::Ho-oh::lugia::mewtwo::heracross::rhydon::skarmory::snorlax::steelix::tyranitar::muk::scizor:
Boomer
:mew::mewtwo::snorlax::cloyster::exeggutor::forretress::gengar::golem::steelix::muk:
Baton Pass
:celebi::vaporeon::umbreon::jolteon::scizor::smeargle:
Trapping
:gengar::misdreavus::umbreon::cloyster:
Spikes
:Cloyster::Forretress::smeargle:
Rapid Spin
:Cloyster::Forretress::Golem::Starmie:
Cleric
:Celebi::blissey::Miltank:
 
Last edited:

Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:mew:Red, Blue and Yellow:mewtwo:

Generation 1 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • There is a 1/256 chance for 100% accuracy moves to miss.
  • Recovery moves also fail if a Pokemon's HP Is 255 or 511 points below their Max HP. Example: Chansey at 192 HP is unable to successfully use Softboiled.
  • Critical Hit chance is determined by the Pokemon's speed i.e A base 130 speed Pokemon such as Mewtwo or Jolteon has a 25% chance to land a critical hit. (Base speed/512)
    • Critical hits ignore your and your opponent's stat boosts.
  • Pokemon that are asleep do not move on the turn they wake up.
  • Pokemon that are frozen do not thaw by themselves (only via being hit by a Fire move that can cause a burn, or Haze), due to this there is a freeze clause.
  • Boosting moves such as Agility can eliminate the loss of speed caused by paralysis if the user is already paralyzed.
  • Hyper Beam does not have a recharge turn if it KOs the defending Pokemon. A Pokemon who has used Hyper Beam and requires recharging can have their status effect overwritten. For example: A paralyzed Tauros uses Hyper Beam, has to recharge, and then can be put to sleep by an Exeggutor with Sleep Powder, despite already being Paralyzed.
  • Substitute does not block sleep and paralysis. On the turn a Substitute is broken (ie by Body Slam), the Pokemon that was behind the Substitute cannot be hit with a status effect resultant from the move that broke the Substitute.
  • Special Defense and Special Attack are one stat called "Special". The number is equal to the Pokemon's Special Defense from Generation II onward.
  • Counter can only counter Normal or Fighting type moves specifically. Counter can also counter back damage from previous turns provided the opponent's Pokemon does not move — i.e full paralysis or on switching out. Counter fails if the opponent's last-selected move was not Normal or Fighting-type. If it was, however, a Pokemon can Counter its own damage. For instance, an opposing Tauros Hyper Beams your Chansey and you use Thunderbolt. The Tauros recharges and you use Counter. You will do twice as much damage as you did with Thunderbolt. Some non-damaging moves reset this damage count, making Counter fail. A list of these can be found here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/rb/moves/counter/.
  • Reflect and Light Screen affect the user only, doubling their defensive stats, and are permanent until the user switches out. Critical hits still ignore them and Haze removes them.
  • Rest does not eliminate the stat drops caused by Status effects until the Pokemon switches out.
  • Multi-hit moves such as Double Kick always do the same amount of damage based on the first hit, also if the first hit criticals all the multi-hits will also land a critical.
  • Explosion and Self-Destruct do not cause the user to faint if they KO the target's Substitute.
  • Hyper Beam does not force a recharge if it KOs the target's Substitute.
  • After a Pokemon hits Hyper Beam but before it recharges, sleep can overwrite any other status the recharging Pokemon has.
  • Damaging moves with secondary status effects cannot apply those status effects to Pokemon who share the same type of the damaging move. For instance: Body Slam cannot paralyze Normal-types, Thunderbolt and Thunder cannot paralyze Electric-types (Thunder Wave, however, can), Sludge cannot poison Poison-types, and so on.
  • Paralysis and Burn have their stat multiplier reapplied if the opponent boosts or if their own stats are dropped in any way — for instance, a Slowbro using Amnesia against a Paralyzed Mewtwo will quarter Mewtwo's speed again on top of the original quartering from Paralysis. This can happen until the stat cap stops your Pokemon from boosting or +6/-6 is reached. These changes are not saved when the affected Pokemon switches out.
  • Critical hits ignore the Attack drop from burns.
  • Other Move differences: Blizzard has an accuracy of 90%, Fire Blast has a 30% chance to burn, Thunder has a 10% chance to paralyze, Psychic has a 33% chance to drop the opponents Special Stat, Explosion is 170 base power and Self-Destruct is 130, Night Shade and Seismic Toss can hit any Pokemon regardless of typing.
  • Type differences: Fire does not resist Ice, Poison is super effective against Bug, Bug is also super-effective against poison, due to a bug Psychic Types are immune to Ghost-Type attacks such as Lick.
S Rank:

S+

:rb/mewtwo: Mewtwo
:rb/mew: Mew

S-
:rb/chansey: Chansey
:rb/snorlax: Snorlax

A Rank:

A+

:rb/tauros: Tauros

A
:rb/exeggutor: Exeggutor

A-
:rb/zapdos: Zapdos
:rb/gengar: Gengar
:rb/slowbro: Slowbro


B Rank:

B+

:rb/jynx: Jynx
:rb/rhydon: Rhydon

B
:rb/jolteon: Jolteon
:rb/starmie: Starmie
:rb/alakazam: Alakazam

B-
:rb/cloyster: Cloyster
:rb/golem: Golem

C Rank:

C+

:rb/dragonite: Dragonite
:rb/lapras: Lapras

C
:rb/articuno: Articuno
:rb/victreebel: Victreebel

C-
:rb/hypno: Hypno
:rb/persian: Persian

D
:rb/electrode: Electrode
Alakazam Lead + Cloyster by Oiseau Bleu
:alakazam::cloyster::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey:
Alakazam
Ability: none
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Psychic
- Recover

Cloyster
Ability: none
- Clamp
- Blizzard
- Explosion
- Rest

Mewtwo
Ability: none
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct
- Earthquake

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
- Sing
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Starmie Lead + Rhydon by Oiseau Bleu
:starmie::rhydon::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey:
Starmie
Ability: none
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Recover

Rhydon
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Substitute

Mewtwo
Ability: none
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Self-Destruct
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
- Sing
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled

Jolteon Lead + Slowbro by Oiseau Bleu
:jolteon::slowbro::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey:
Jolteon
Ability: none
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Pin Missile
- Double Kick

Slowbro
Ability: none
- Amnesia
- Surf
- Thunder Wave
- Rest

Mewtwo
IVs: 2 Atk
Ability: none
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct
- Earthquake

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
- Sing
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Jynx Lead + Slowbro Stall by Oiseau Bleu
:jynx::slowbro::mewtwo::mew::chansey::snorlax:
Jynx (F)
Ability: none
- Lovely Kiss
- Blizzard
- Counter
- Rest

Slowbro
Ability: none
- Amnesia
- Surf
- Thunder Wave
- Rest

Mewtwo
Ability: none
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Submission
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Soft-Boiled
- Reflect

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct
- Earthquake

Tauros Lead + Exeggutor by Plague von Karma
:tauros::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey::exeggutor:
Tauros (M)
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Stomp

Mewtwo
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Roingus (Mew)
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
- Sing
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Exeggutor
Ability: none
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Explosion

Gengar lead + Zapdos by Peasounay
:gengar::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey::zapdos:
Gengar
Ability: none
- Hypnosis
- Night Shade
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion

Mewtwo
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Sing

Zapdos
Ability: none
- Drill Peck
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Agility

Alakazam Lead + Slowbro by Peasounay
:alakazam::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey::slowbro:
Alakazam
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Recover
- Seismic Toss

Mewtwo
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Sing

Slowbro
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Amnesia
- Surf
- Rest

Jolteon Lead + Tauros by Peasounay
:jolteon::mewtwo::mew::snorlax::chansey::tauros:
Jolteon
Ability: none
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Pin Missile
- Double Kick

Mewtwo
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: none
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Snorlax
Ability: none
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Chansey (F)
Ability: none
IVs: 2 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Sing

Tauros (M)
Ability: none
- Blizzard
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake

Jynx Lead + Slowbro by Lutra
:jynx::exeggutor::mewtwo::mew::slowbro::chansey:
Jynx
IVs: 2 Atk
- Blizzard
- Lovely Kiss
- Rest
- Seismic Toss

Exeggutor
- Explosion
- Psychic
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore

Mewtwo
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Recover

Mew
IVs: 2 Atk
- Reflect
- Soft-Boiled
- Transform
- Thunder Wave

Slowbro
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Rest
- Surf
- Thunder Wave

Chansey
IVs: 2 Atk
- Light Screen
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Tauros Lead + Reflect Mew by marcoasd
:tauros::mewtwo::mew::exeggutor::slowbro::snorlax:
Tauros
Ability: Intimidate
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Blizzard

Mewtwo
- Amnesia
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Mew
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Soft-Boiled

Exeggutor
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Explosion

Slowbro
Ability: Oblivious
- Thunder Wave
- Amnesia
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Snorlax
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct

Jynx Lead + Slowbro by Mr.378
:jynx::mewtwo::mew::slowbro::chansey::snorlax:
Jynx
Ability: Oblivious
- Blizzard
- Seismic Toss
- Rest
- Lovely Kiss

Mewtwo
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Amnesia
- Recover

Mew
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Swords Dance

Slowbro
Ability: Oblivious
- Surf
- Thunder Wave
- Amnesia
- Rest

Chansey
Ability: Natural Cure
- Ice Beam
- Light Screen
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Snorlax
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Exeggutor Lead + Slowbro by eden
:exeggutor::mewtwo::mew::zapdos::slowbro::snorlax:
Exeggutor
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Explosion
- Psychic

Mewtwo
- Amnesia
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Self-Destruct

Mew
- Reflect
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Soft-Boiled

Zapdos
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Drill Peck
- Agility

Slowbro
Ability: Oblivious
- Withdraw
- Rest
- Surf
- Psychic

Snorlax
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct

Hypnogar + Psychicless Mewtwo by Peasounay
:gengar::mewtwo::mew::exeggutor::chansey::snorlax:
Gengar
Ability: Cursed Body
- Hypnosis
- Thunderbolt
- Night Shade
- Explosion

Mewtwo
Ability: Pressure
- Amnesia
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Mew
Ability: Synchronize
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Soft-Boiled

Exeggutor
Ability: Chlorophyll
- Sleep Powder
- Psychic
- Stun Spore
- Explosion

Chansey
Ability: Natural Cure
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Light Screen

Snorlax
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Counter
- Self-Destruct

Peasounay's winning team
:gengar::mewtwo::mew::slowbro::chansey::snorlax:
Gengar
Ability: Cursed Body
- Hypnosis
- Thunderbolt
- Night Shade
- Explosion

Mewtwo
Ability: Pressure
- Amnesia
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Recover

Mew
Ability: Synchronize
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Soft-Boiled

Slowbro
Ability: Oblivious
- Thunder Wave
- Amnesia
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Chansey
Ability: Natural Cure
- Soft-Boiled
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Sing

Snorlax
Ability: Immunity
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Lutra RBY Veteran team
:jynx::mewtwo::mew::zapdos::chansey::snorlax:
Rain's Melody (Jynx)
IVs: 2 Atk
- Blizzard
- Lovely Kiss
- Psychic
- Counter

The Sky (Mewtwo)
IVs: 2 Atk
- Amnesia
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Recover

Rainbow (Mew)
- Explosion
- Reflect
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Wave

Fly Freely (Zapdos)
- Drill Peck
- Reflect
- Rest
- Thunderbolt

Boat of Clouds (Chansey)
IVs: 2 Atk
- Light Screen
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave
Bad Dreams (Snorlax)
- Amnesia
- Body Slam
- Reflect
- Rest
 
Last edited:

Cynara

Banned deucer.
In the last Ubers Old Gens Hub thread, you made a to-do list of resource improvements including updating RSE & DPP VR and general ORAS content. Are you continuing with that or are you content with the resources for now?
That list was pretty much done, I just didnt edit / cross off what i did on the list, but the plan is to have things ever expanding. Discussion from other players is very appreciated Too. I hope to see more dpp / adv discussions this time around and I'll be expanding the USM Section soon, just waiting on gen 8 mechanics to be finalised.
 
Last edited:

absdaddy

Banned deucer.
dpp palkia should drop a rank. It's outclassed as a kyogre check by Latias and as a scarfer by literally every other scarfer - slower than chomp, susceptible to all hazards especially tspikes which are the big bad in the meta right now (pressure tspikes bulky offense) which means it has very little longevity for a kyogre check / revenge killer.
Compared to other Pokémon currently in S, it doesn't bring nowhere near the utility these other mons do and many successful teams have dropped it and for a good reason. grounded + no recovery = Not S (please don't bring up restalk bu, this aint xy)
whether ranks are ordered or not, top of A+ is fine for it

drop gliscor, it died with iris. no way it should be higher than tenta kingdra or froslass. speaking of tenta, peep the usage and winrates for the pressure tspikes teams. tenta is a key player on these, beats darkrai and many other leads and for that i think it should get a bump to a-
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
I would like to suggest moving Metagross and Deoxys-D into A- above Ray and potentially Jirachi.
Metagross's ability to make weather setters come in on Spikes and a Mash is amazing and its Rock Slide is actually strong enough to threaten Ho-Oh unlike other Steels. It does bring in the Spikes setting Steels as well but this does present the opportunity to limit them to 1 or 0 Spikes for the rest of the game if Metagross's trainer is comfortable blowing it up early (<3 gen 3 KO mechanics), this will likely give an opening to some strong physical teammate on Metagross's team as well (Deo-A, Lugia, Snorlax, Kabutops, Heracross, Ray).

Deoxys-D is a very reliable Spikes user and one of two that can viably heal without Rest. It is a staple on a popular stall team and a couple offense teams that involve Gengar. I don't think I need to explain how hard this is to take down sometimes while getting up Spikes, sometimes poisoning everything that can be poisoned, Pressure stalling others, or throwing up Spikes in most cases. I value its reliable Spikes, ability to fit on a couple of teams at least, the fast Deo-D's trait of never being KOed by passive damage alone, and the fully defensive Deo-D's habit of just not being broken by special attacks before its attacker is taken down by poison or runs out of attacks to hit it with. This should put it above Ray and Jirachi, though Jirachi's Wish along with its small but relevant offensive potential is hard to pinpoint on the VR.

I can go on about why Jirachi, Ray, and Regice should be ranked below these two, but I think it should be pretty self-explanatory. Skarmory could move up a little (above Regice), but I am not sold on this idea (Magneton complications / Fire coverage on Snorlax / other complications).


Here is a Meta mini analysis:
Roles:
- Turns common special tanks like Blissey, Snorlax, Deo-D etc into an opportunity for very real damage. It is a strong offense enabler.
- It also does this to CB locked Normal- and Flying-type attacks.
- It tends to bring in Kyogre, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Forretress, and the rarer Skarmory. This can be abused with switching, Explosion, Spikes, and coverage move antics.
- being able to threaten Rock-Types is a nice bonus, even if switching into them isn't ideal.
Metagross @ Leftovers / Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Toxic

Notes:
- Meteor Mash and Earthquake have strong neutral coverage
- Explosion will KO or cripple everything but Gengar and Dusclops. Booming on slower targets also takes away their move for the turn (useful against Spikes users in some scenarios).
- I recommend running a little more Speed out of HP for other Metagross and Skarmory
- Last move can be many things:
- Rock Slide gives Metagross a coverage weapon against Ho-Oh who will likely outlast Metagross and always threaten it so long as it live​
- Toxic makes sure Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Groudon take damage whenever they are in.​
- Pursuit will KO Deoxys-A if it attempts to switch, but it will only do 83% max if Deoxys stays in.​
- With a Naughty or Brave nature, Hidden Power Fire in Groudon's sun will take a large chunk out of Skarmory and OHKO Forretress.​
Checks and Counters:
- Kyogre
- Groudon
- Ho-Oh
- Skarmory / Forretress (Meta HATES Spikes damage)
- Dugtrio if a hit has been taken (or enough Spikes damage accumulated)
- Other faster Pokemon with SE coverage
- Will-O-Wisp from Dusclops (and its Explosion immunity)
 
Last edited:

Manaphy

Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am family guy
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
once again suggesting moving Manaphy up in BW2, and not just because it's my username :pimp: To put it in C- tier with literal trash like Arceus-Ice and Jynx is underrating the mon quite a bit, it's a great stallbreaker with tail glow and as a sweeper being immune to status and resting off things in rain is great. wacan berry or calm mind prevents it from being revenge killed by common scarf mons, groudon and tyranitar have to try to play mindgames to change the weather on your since you can smack them anytime with supereffective coverage. Additionally things that run Grass Knot like Lati@s or arceus forms will get memed hard by Manaphy since he's so lightweight. You can straight up beat Ferrothorn by fishing for burns or just straight powering through after a tail glow if you have some prior damage up, opening up stall teams that rely on status or hazards to beat down offensive threats with it's immunity to status and free rests. it's not a perfect mon especially since you can't run ice beam and grass knot at the same time but rain and tail glow boosted attacks deal hard damage to most things anyway. Getting +6 isn't even that hard considering how much you can heal with rest.
I honestly think it's good enough for at least B- if not higher but if other people disagree thats fine, C- is completely ridiculous though.
 
Last edited:
As I said in the old thread, the ADV rankings need an update; they should look close to this imo
S
Kyogre
Groudon
Latios
Latias

S-
Deoxys-A

A+
Mewtwo
Snorlax
Blissey
Ho-oh

A
Deoxys-D
Metagross
Lugia

A-
Magneton
Forretress
Skarmory
Jirachi
Heracross

B+
Deoxys-S
Omastar
Umbreon
Steelix
Gengar
Mew

B
Regirock
Aerodactyl
Dugtrio
Qwilfish
Rayquaza

B-
Exeggutor
Ludicolo
Shiftry
Tyranitar
Registeel
Shedinja
Regirock
Wobbuffet

C
Everything else


Abs and I both commented in the old thread that the sample teams need work in gens 3-5. Read about it here

The DPP rankings also need an update. Here's my personal list:
S
Dialga
Kyogre
Giratina-O
Darkrai
Deoxys-S

A+
Groudon
Latias
Latios
Garchomp
Palkia
Mewtwo
Rayquaza

A
Jirachi
Tyranitar
Giratina-A
Lugia
Kingdra
Heatran
Skarmory
Bronzong

A-
Deoxys-A
Tentacruel
Forretress
Lucario
Blissey
Manaphy

B+
Shaymin-Sky
Ho-oh
Wobbuffet
Magnezone

B
Ludicolo
Scizor
Mew
Kabutops
Froslass


PM me on discord if you want some help with this Cynara
 

Cynara

Banned deucer.
As I said in the old thread, the ADV rankings need an update; they should look close to this imo
S
Kyogre
Groudon
Latios
Latias

S-
Deoxys-A

A+
Mewtwo
Snorlax
Blissey
Ho-oh

A
Deoxys-D
Metagross
Lugia

A-
Magneton
Forretress
Skarmory
Jirachi
Heracross

B+
Deoxys-S
Omastar
Umbreon
Steelix
Gengar
Mew

B
Regirock
Aerodactyl
Dugtrio
Qwilfish
Rayquaza

B-
Exeggutor
Ludicolo
Shiftry
Tyranitar
Registeel
Shedinja
Regirock
Wobbuffet

C
Everything else


Abs and I both commented in the old thread that the sample teams need work in gens 3-5. Read about it here

The DPP rankings also need an update. Here's my personal list:
S
Dialga
Kyogre
Giratina-O
Darkrai
Deoxys-S

A+
Groudon
Latias
Latios
Garchomp
Palkia
Mewtwo
Rayquaza

A
Jirachi
Tyranitar
Giratina-A
Lugia
Kingdra
Heatran
Skarmory
Bronzong

A-
Deoxys-A
Tentacruel
Forretress
Lucario
Blissey
Manaphy

B+
Shaymin-Sky
Ho-oh
Wobbuffet
Magnezone

B
Ludicolo
Scizor
Mew
Kabutops
Froslass


PM me on discord if you want some help with this Cynara
Thank you for this very useful post, sorry there hasn't been much public update from me. but we will get your vr update lists discussed. There is now a Old Gens Hub projects team and a discord role for contribution and discussion. I just wanted to make a post that this is a thing now, anyone who wants to help contribute is more than welcome to send me/nayrz/dream a PM of general interest either on Smogon or in the Ubers Discord for the discord for the live discussion for Old gens contributors.

Anyways to discuss your post.

Palkia lowering to A+ has already happened because we dont believe it lives up to being a S rank Pokemon in DPP Ubers anymore. Bronzong raise was brought up and will probably occur.

I will add your dpp stall team to samples because I think it is a good representation of stalls in DPP. A T-spikes team is something im working on: https://pokepast.es/1f41f245bc658e25 - here is a rough draft of something I have so far, please let me know what you think. Its for a sample so its very bog standard, but I would prefer a second opinion since DPP isnt my strong suit.

As for ADV this really VR needs to be discussed and expect an update on it shortly.

Of course if you want to pm me personally, you are free to do so, my discord is Sarah#2355, feel free to send me a friend request
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Would update ADV VR to this:
S
Kyogre
Groudon
Latios
Latias

A+
Snorlax
Deoxys-A
Mewtwo
Blissey

A
Ho-oh
Metagross
Deoxys-D
Forretress

A-
Magneton
Lugia
Skarmory
Jirachi

B+
Deoxys-S
Heracross
Omastar
Rayquaza
Umbreon

B
Gengar
Celebi
Steelix
Regice
Regirock
Aerodactyl
Mew
Dugtrio

B-
Kabutops
Qwilfish
Exeggutor
Ludicolo
Salamence
Tyranitar
Registeel
Swampert
Shedinja
Wobbuffet

C
Shiftry
Jumpluff
Zapdos
Raikou
Flygon
Lanturn
Ninjask

D
Deoxys
Wynaut

There should be one S tier, there is no ORAS P Don / RBY Mewtwo dichotomy in the premier ADV viability. Ogre / Don / Lati are the epitome of ADV. Almost every team should be using at least two of these Pokemon.

A+ is for Pokemon that are the best at their respective roles. Snorlax is the best BO mon ignoring S Rank and Curselax is one of the top threats of the tier. Deoxys-A is the best pure offense threat. Mewtwo is the best mixed attacker and lead. Blissey is the best wall and defensive support mon.

Ho-Oh is a premier sun Pokemon, and can work on dual weather / rain as well, but it just doesn't excel at a singular level enough to warrant A+ placement like the others. Metagross is the premier Steel-type and is able to function on many styles of teams. Spikes is extremely important for ADV sequences and breaking weathermons / beatstick checks, making Deoxys-D and Forretress very important.

Magneton, Lugia, Skarmory, and Jirachi are all important Pokemon for certain types of archetypes. They are not as pervasive or influential in team structures as the A rank Pokemon, but they have enough utility to place them above B ranked mons.

B+ Pokemon have specific, limited roles, but they are effective at executing them. Heracross and Omastar are good cleaners with limited defensive utility. Deo-S is a more specialized Deo-D. Rayquaza stops weather sweepers + one of the few mons with priority. Umbreon has meanpassing.

Pokemon like Gengar, Steelix, Regice, Regirock, and Celebi are similarly specialized, but aren't quite as potent or unique as the Pokemon above them.

B- is essentially everything else I'd consider using on a serious team. They have many limitations, but they have some important and unique quirk that justifies their usage.

C rank are basically things that were on VR before.

D rank are unviable, but are Uber by tiering.


For ADV samples, in addition to a rain offense and a sun balance / stall, I'd recommend a dual weather offense, a Deoxys-D team, a Heracross team, a rain stall, and at least one team with a Curselax. I think these seven or less teams offer a strong and relevant spectrum for new players to try out.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
Xerneas can't use hidden power rock :[
View attachment 212941
There is more than one way to obtain HP rock, but the default that showdown gives you is illegal. This is the only one that works for gen 6 legends iirc:
31 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / 31 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
Showdown brings the attack IV down to 1 because of the rather silly auto IV thing (attack IV needs to be an odd number for HP rock) whenever you don't have a physical attack on your set. It has to be 31 in order to be legal on Xerneas and must be put in manually.
 

Exiline

Banned deucer.
is a Past SCL Championis a Two-Time Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Championis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
Use zf's VR for ADV

I would however add some changes:
- Deoxys-Speed in A-
- Dusclops in B
- Forretress in A
- Lugia in A-

Dusclops is incredible when used in Sun stalls, the most dominant archetype in the tier along lead m2 offense, it can absorb M2, being immune to normal attacks is amazing for rapid spin blocking/explosion/snorlax and is also able to pursuit trap deo-a while crippling a lot of shit with WoW and abusing pressure.
Rest is easy to understand, i'll write explanations if asked ig.
 
Minor points but still relevant- was it gen 5 that Sturdy was buffed to function like a Focus Sash? I feel that for g5 at the least that's significant due to Custap Forre/Skarm being relevant.

Also the DPP section mentions Ghost types being affected by STag implying that in g5 they can't be trapped, but I thought it was g6 or so that they were buffed to be immune to trapping? Idk, maybe misremembering things
 

Cynara

Banned deucer.
Just a thread update post.

ADV VR Changes

Based on everything users have proposed for ADV Viability rankings such as the preliminary lists from Zf & Minority, Nominations raised by Wreckdra and Exiline, and all points raised in the old generations contributors channel I have reorganised ADV VR on what the majority have agreed on. For Pokemon where discussion is lacking, I averaged the rankings proposed by Exiline, Minority and Zf posted on this thread to determine a position, this was usually minor changes such as positioning in the S-A- Subranks, Furthermore, to follow the idea of Standardisation between our Viability Rankings, Pokemon under A- are no longer ordered by viability, but simply listed Alphabetically.

Here are the list of the significant changes:

:deoxys-attack: -> Top of A+
:Metagross: -> A
:deoxys-defense: -> A
:deoxys-speed: -> A-
:lugia: -> A-
:heracross: -> B+
:rayquaza: -> B+
:regice: -> B
:mew: -> B

New Pokemon Introduced

:Celebi: -> B
:dugtrio: -> B
:dusclops: -> B

Slaking has been placed in C, I am unsure where this was wanted, Zf did not rank his C rank Pokemon, so it is unclear whether this Pokemon should be ranked or not, as he suggests C rank should be for everything else that is ranked so I have put it in C rank for now as it was previously deemed viable, please let me know if this has been interpreted incorrectly.


DPP Changes


Due to the tiering decision to allow Arceus. DPP Resources including Sample teams and Viability Rankings are now all outdated. I have now put all the old DPP Resources into a hide tag and shelved them for users that may still wish to access them and so they are not lost. The Priority is to introduce Sample teams that reflect the metagame with Arceus in order to introduce the format to users and increase activity of DPP Ubers. I am now accepting Sample Team submissions on this thread. A initial viability list will be discussed in the near future; after the conclusion of a Circuit Tournament featuring DPP Ubers or possibily sooner, if there is enough discussion.


Other points of discussion:

- Changes to BW2 Viability rankings, BW2 Ubers VR has not received an update in a good while. Do people agree with the current VR of BW2 Ubers? If you want to propose any updates / changes please bring them up in this thread.
- ORAS VR and additional resources
- Potential Post Most Wanted USM VR Update.

If theres anything else not on my list, that you wish to contribute and/or discuss please happily bring them up in this thread.
 
I looked over the BW VR, and here is my opinion, I made it much less top heavy, so B-rank and up is actually good mons. I have not ranked within the tiers. I Made some comments on a couple interesting mons.

S: The absolute elite, you need a really good reason to not use this mon. And still, you should probably reconsider your decision

A: Really good mons, are all really scary that you have to have in mind when building a team

B: Still good, no one should question that you are trying your best to win

C: Starting to get a bit sketchy, you will still not get any points for memeing, your team will look serious. But let’s be real, your team will probably not be able to compete with the best archetypes

D: Not complete garbage, can work a small niche


S
Genesect (S) – The best mon in the tier, and it’s not even close. Even tho its always scarf and everyone expects it, it will do its job. I would rather run dual-scarf than not using Genesect at all. Is good on HO/Balance/Stall

A+
Kyogre (S)
Arceus – Ghost (S)

A
Arceus – Fighting (A+)
Groudon (A+)
Latias (A)
Latios (A+)
Rayquaza (A-) – Underrated on previous VR, has no good answers outside of Arceus. Stops weather-sweepers. Priority is always nice in the lead matchup. Can run multiple sets
Dialga (S) – I usually don’t find the place for it on my teams but I guess its ok

A-
Deoxys – S (A)
Deoxys – A (A)
Arceus – Normal (A+) – The best Arceus types being fighting and ghost really hurts it. Scarf Palkia is not a thing anymore, Latios always have roar so set up is not as easy as it was in the old days. Still good tho, can run sets like recover with some success
Darkrai (A+)
Giratina – O (A+)
Ferrothorn (A)

B+
Ho-Oh (A-)
Tyranitar (A-)
Excadrill (A-)

B
Tentacruel (B+)
Arceus-Steel (A)
Espeon (B-)
Cloyster (B)
Forretress (B+)
Kabutops (A-)
Arceus – Water (B+)
Palkia (A) – Just looking at the stats from the latest UPLs shows that it’s hard to fit on a team. Still a very big threat with Specs/Lustrus. And scarf might actually not be that bad, is faster than Genesect after all

B-
Accelgor (Unranked) – Good matchup vs suicide spikers + Darkrai
Frosslas (B+) – A suicide spiker that looses to Darkrai, but people seems to like it
Omastar (B)
Tornadus-T (B-)
Skarmory (B+)
Heatran (B+)
Gliscor (B+)
Jirachi (B)
Giratina – A (B-)
Arceus – Grass (B+)
Arceus – Ground (B)
Lugia (B-)
Manaphy (C-) – Actually good, used it with success in last UPL, but needs quite a lot of support

C
Zekrom (B+)
Shaymin – Sky (B)
Mewtwo (B)
Terrakion (B)
Landorus-T (B)
Garchomp (B-)
Ludicolo (B-)
Gastrodon (C+)
Sableye (C+)
Smeargle (C-)
Shiftry (C+)
Blissey (C)
Chansey (C)
Hippowdon (B-)
Arceus – Dragon (C+)
Arceus – Ground (B)
Arceus – Rock (B)
Arceus – Electric (B)
Arceus – Dark (B)

D
Salamence (C+)
Reshiram (C+)
Tornadus (C+)
Abomasnow (C+)
Cresselia (C)
Arceus – Flying (C)
Arceus – Poison (C)
Jumpluff (D)
Whimsicot (D)
Magnezone (C)
Thunderus (C+)
Deoxys-D (B-)
Kyurem-W (B-)
Xatu (C+)
Wobbuffet (B-)
Kingdra (B-)
Blaziken (B-)
Arceus – Psychic (C+)
Arceus – Flying (C)
Arceus – Poison (C)

Unranked (moved from ranked)
Venusaur
Thunderus – T
Deoxys
Bisharp
Jynx
Gorebyss
Arceus – Ice
Arceus – Fire
Mamoswine
Scizor
Bronzong
Kyurem-B
Victini
Qwilfish
Arceus – Ice
Arceus – Fire
Arceus – Bug
 

Just dropping thoughts about Farceus and a preliminary VR I made.

Arceus- I think the best Farceus is just its regular form. Just SD/Espeed/EQ/Sclaw with Silk Scarf will get opportunities to win late game when everything is chipped versus any team that lacks Skarm, and Thunder/Overheat will end up frying Skarm anyway. Power Herb Shadow Force will work to secure KOs on Gira-O before it throws out Wisp, and Recover sets deal with Scarf Dialga and no status Gira-O. However, no EQ means Rachi and bulkier Dialgas end up winning.

Arceus-Steel- The frontrunner coming into Farceus meta, but I feel like it has a lot of flaws after testing. A lot of people were hyping up the Roar set, but mono steel coverage is shit, and after Steelceus gets paralyzed by a stray Thunder/Twave from Latios/Latias/Ogre/Dialga/Palkia/Rachi/Blissey/Groudon, it get phased back anyway. I think coverage like Earth power/Thunder are more consistent sets, and a Wisp set might be worth considering to punish switch-ins like Ogre/Dialga/Spdef Groudon/Fightceus.

Arceus-Fighting- Fightceus would have been pretty fucking strong if Tspikes didn’t exist. Immediately cutting through Dialga/Steelceus is nothing to scoff at and not much uses psychic/flying coverage in Ubers. Unfortunately, there is no room to run Thunder so CM Ogre will eventually win and Twave is still a threat. It also falls pretty hard to Stalltwo.

Arceus-Ghost- This is another form that people thought was gonna be pretty ridiculous, but it just gets revenged by Darkrai and checked by Ogre. The SD set is really inconsistent, and Tspikes/Toxic still limits setup. Frankly, I think Gira-O ends up being a better spin blocker too, but Ghostceus does have some merit in being a CM Arceus that brute forces through Latias/Latios/Stalltwo and often forces opponent to trade their Bronzong/Dialga.

The lesser Arcs

Arceus-Dark-
Basically CM Ghostceus that can’t spin block…. It’s better at stall breaking though.

Arceus-Electric- Scaring off Ogre with stab Thunder is something I guess, but it’s weather reliant and still loses to Dialga, Spdef Don, Chomp and Toxic/Tspikes.

Arceus-Grass- It checks Ogre and Don in one mon and that’s about it.

Arceus-Ground- Pretty much a worse Ekiller other than being able beat Dialga more reliably; the water weakness really sucks and it can’t even beat Latias/Latios.

Arceus-Dragon- Not so sure about this one still; I think mono Sub/Refresh CM sets could have some merit in breaking cores especially because of the water resist, but Scarf Dialga, Chomp, Latios revenge kill for free.

Other forms- Maybe they’re good; I'm not sure, but so far at least they aren't very promising. Waterceus/Flyceus are invalidated by Thunder weakness, there are more versatile Tspike absorbers than Poisonceus, Fireceus/Iceceus/Bugceus die to rocks, Psychiceus isn't good defensively or offensively, and Rockceus struggles with Don/Ogre.

Fast mons like Kabu/Latios/Latias/Darkrai/Mewtwo are consistent in revenging Arceus (except Ekiller) and spreading status really hinders its ability to sweep. I'm also thinking a lot of mons can run new sets that were previously unheard of. Stuff like Darkrai could run Chilan Berry for Ekiller, Lucario could try an Agility set, and I'm also liking Spdef Bulk Up EQ Thunder Dialga a lot to handle Steelceus rain teams.

I also tested this to some extent by winning the recent Farceus tour without using Farceus at all by focusing on spamming Twave and Toxic.
 
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Would a utility set not work for Watceus in sun? With sun support I would say its electric weakness wouldn't be as bad

My experience in this tour was that CM sets were really strong- I think I exclusively ran CM Ghostceus and CM Fightceus and a lot of my wins came down to them, but I never felt opposing CM Arcs were unstoppable except for one match where I forgot to run anything to handle CMFB Grassceus. That said, I largely agree that the checks for CM Arc are there. Status is good, and it's not as though they can't be played around
 

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