Resource Ubers Old Gens Hub

steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
577E2748-2E94-4A96-9838-3CC43C184F95.png

Art by Blazenix
Welcome to the Ubers Old Gens Hub. This thread contains resources for the older generations of Ubers (Generations 1-7). Each post will contain the respective Viability Rankings, a selection of sample teams to get started with, and a helpful list of the important mechanics specific to each old generation and how the mechanics differ from the generations that succeeded it. This thread will remain open to accept sample teams, additional resources, potential changes in viability rankings, and general discussion of old gen Ubers.

Resources Index:
- Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
- Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
- Black 2 and White 2
- Diamond, Pearl and Platinum
- Advance Generation
- Gold, Silver and Crystal
- Red, Blue and Yellow
 
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steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:necrozma-dusk-mane:Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon:necrozma-dawn-wings:

Generation 7 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Rapid Spin is 20 BP and does not increase Speed by 1 stage
  • Pokemon cannot Dynamax
  • Terrain (Psychic, Grassy, etc.) boosts moves of its corresponding type by 1.5x instead of 1.3x.
  • USM has Z-Power, a mechanic that lets a Pokemon holding a Z-Crystal perform an especially strong version of one of its moves once per game. Only one Pokemon per team may hold a Z-Crystal. Here is a list of all Z-Moves: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Z-Move#List_of_Z-Moves.
  • The following moves, which are unusable in SS, are usable in USM: https://www.serebii.net/swordshield/unusableattacks.shtml
  • More differences to SS TBA

Dual Primal + Extremekiller Arceus Hyper Offense | Provided by Mysterious M & Zesty43

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Defog
- Roost

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 172 Def / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Thunder

Arceus @ Chople Berry
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Recover

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 100 SpD / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Stone Edge

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Power Gem / Dragon Pulse

A Straightforward Hyper Offense build centered around the Dual Primal offensive core. Calm Mind Primal Kyogre and Double Dance Primal Groudon apply huge offensive pressure on opposing teams making it easy for them to break them down. Primal Kyogre functions as the main wallbreaker of the team, breaking down bulkier targets for the other faster offensive options of the team, whetheras Primal Groudon can function as a end game cleaner, however Swords Dance also allows it to function as a breaker when required with Precipice Blades + Stone Edge having neutral coverage. Ultra Necrozma is chosen as the Stealth Rock user of this team which allowed for freeing up the Primal Groudon set. Ultra Necrozma is a stellar offensive Stealth Rock user as it is capable of beating most common users due to its coverage and extremely powerful Z move which is able to blow up defensive checks for the other teammates and allow them to sweep. Dragon Pulse on Ultra Necrozma can be considered, this allows Ultra Necrozma to deal with Giratina-O, opposing Ultra Necrozma, OHKO offensive Zygarde-C base forme without wasting the Z-move and do still a considerable amount of damage to Yveltal

Mega Salamence and Geomancy Xerneas pair together as potential candidates as winning conditions for the team and pair really well with Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Mega Salamence uses Defog which is solely for the matchup against Sticky Web offense teams which would otherwise be a matchup issue for this build. Mega Salamence usually sets up earlier in the game to weaken targets for the other team options, Geomancy Xerneas functions in a similar fashion, however usually takes a more later game approach due to its strong ability to be a winning condition for the team.

Finally ExtremeKiller Arceus is chosen as the teams main revenge killer and a backup late game cleaner, due to its ability to revenge kill weakened offensive threats to the team, Chople Berry is chosen as Xerneas is simply not enough for the Marshadow matchup.

Threatlist:

:smeargle: / :ribombee:
Sticky Web teams, though uncommon, usually have the matchup vs this kind of team. They're the reason Mega Salamence runs Defog. It is important you find yourself in a position to Defog Sticky Webs away as early as possible to limit their potency of what the stronger usually slower offensive presences that are usually found on Stick Webs teams are capable of doing to the team.

:ditto:
Ditto really deters setup of the team, the best way to deal with Ditto is to not setup with Pokemon that could otherwise easily be revenge killed by it, Extreme Killer Arceus can take on ditto reliabely thanks to Recover and Revenge kill any weakened setup Pokemon ditto manages to copy due to Ditto's natural low base HP.


Dual Primal Bulky Offense | Provided by obii

:kyogre-primal::groudon-primal::arceus-fairy::yveltal::salamence-mega::necrozma-dusk-mane:
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stone Edge
- Eruption
- Solar Beam
- Precipice Blades

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Recover

Yveltal @ Charti Berry
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Roost
- Taunt

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Slam
- Defog
- Roost
- Refresh

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 220 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Morning Sun

This is a bulky offense by Obii that features around the menacing max speed Dual Primal offensive core, one of the strongest offensive pairings in the metagame, this is similar to the Mysterious-M and Zesty43 Hyper offense, how it takes a slightly defensive perspective which some players may favour. Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon max use of their speed and high power Water Spout and Eruption respectively to break down teams considerably.

The defensive backbone of the team is mostly designed to aid both breakers as much as possible. due to the lack of Stealth Rock on Primal Groudon, Stealth Rock Arceus-Fairy is chosen as a utility set and is able to reliabely set Stealth Rock vs almost every common playstyle. While checking top metagame threats such as Zygarde-C, Mega Salamence, Yveltal and Marshadow, which is really important for Dual Primal cores. Defensive Mega Salamence pairs really well with Arceus-Fairy while providing Defog support and being able to check threats such as Ho-Oh, Mega Lucario and Primal Groudon lacking Hidden Power Ice. Body Slam also compliments the Dual primal core as it is capable of spreading paralysis to faster threats that would otherwise be out of their range.

Finally, Yveltal and Necrozma Dusk Mane finish off the team defensively. Taunt + Toxic Yveltal also provides as a reliable stallbreaker being able to pressure stall and balance teams and a much needed Lunala check, Charti berry helps it deal with the uncommon Stone Edge Ultra Necrozma which would otherwise threaten this team and be more reliable defensively at checking Primal Groudon. Necrozma Dusk Mane rounds off the defensive backbone, being a hard stop to Geomancy Xerneas which the team really needs, thanks to special defensive investment and Swords Dance + Morning Sun it is able to sit in on any support Arceus forme and shut them down, while still having the potential to function as a late game cleaner.

Threatlist:

:gengar-mega:
Mega Gengar can really be a problem to this team, it is capable of trapping and removing Arceus-Fairy, one of the main members of the defensive backbone and this could be a huge problem if it happens early in a game, it has to be cautious of Earth Power from a healthy Arceus-Fairy however and this helps limit what it is capable to do in the later game. It can easily disrupt and remove any weakened teammate of this team, due to its unpredictable coverage. Necrozma Dusk Mane can probably stave off All out Attacking Mega Gengar to a decent margin, however, Hex Mega Gengar can overpower it 1v1, Primal Kyogre is easily able to take one Thunder if it isnt weakened enough. Yveltal lacks any means of revenging such as Sucker Punch or Choice Scarf. Ice type coverage such as Hidden Power Ice is capable of OHKOing Mega Salamence after Stealth Rock.


Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo-Y Bulky Offense | Provided by Garay oak
:mewtwo-mega-y::groudon-primal::arceus::yveltal::necrozma-dusk-mane::marshadow:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 40 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psystrike
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe
Mild Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Rock Tomb

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Recover

Yveltal @ Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Defog
- Roost

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 152 SpD / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Moonlight

Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit


A bulky offense team by Garay Oak featured around the rising offensive staple of Mega Mewtwo-Y. This team has had a good degree of sucess in tournaments and featured in UPL VII. Calm Mind + 3 attacks Mega Mewtwo-Y is the centrepiece of the team and the offensive options are designed to support it. Calm Mind Mega Mewtwo-Y is great vs offense and is great as alate game cleaner, it is a good revenge killer being able to outspeed targets such as Mega Gengar and Ultra Necrozma. Calm Mind provides it with the breaking power it requires and makes it a great choice to combat Calm Mind Arceus'.

Offensive Stealth Rock Primal Groudon is used to provide Stealth Rock support and punish switchins with a powerful Overheat and take care of Ho-Oh for the team with Rock Tomb. Mega Mewtwo would aid Primal Groudon against Support Arceus it would usually struggle against such as Arceus-Water or Arceus-Ground.

Arceus-Fairy and Yveltal are part of the main defensive backbone of the team. Arceus-Fairy for defensively checking pokemon Mega Mewtwo-Y would naturally struggle against such as Marshadow and Yveltal which are usually primary Mega Mewtwo-Y answers. A support set featuring Toxic is chosen to further help out the Ho-Oh matchup while putting support Arceus formes on a timer. Yveltal is a much needed check to Lunala and helps out with the Primal Groudon and Swords Dance Arceus matchup, while providing hazard control for the team.

Finally, Necrozma Dusk Mane with Moonlight provides an additional breaker and a sturdy Xerneas check that the team needs due to the presence of Offensive Stealth Rock Primal Groudon as the secondary switch in. One could consider a offensive Trick Room over Moonlight on Necrozma Dusk Mane if they wish to take a more offensive approach. Marshadow rounds off the team being a good revengekiller and pairing well with Arceus-Fairy to deal with its inherent issues against Mega Gengar and being able to pursuit trap it, while being able to revenge kill common offensive threats.

Threatlist:

:groudon-primal:
On paper the Rock Polish Primal Groudon looks scary, however it is more than adequate, every Pokemon on the team is comfortably capable of chunking Primal Groudon for at least half, making it easy to trade for or revenge kill. Arceus-Fairy actually beat it 1v1 after Stealth Rock, thanks to Earth Power.

:ho-oh:
Ho-Oh requires offensive pressure to make it non threatening to the team. Toxic Arceus-Fairy is mainly used to deal with defensive variants, its important to keep hazards up vs Ho-Oh teams and apply offensive pressure to make it unfeasible to Defog hazards away without risking too much in return, offensive options this team provides will stave off the threat most offensive Ho-Ohs threaten on paper.


U-turn Mega Scizor Bulky Offense | Provided by The Dovahneer
:scizor-mega::groudon-primal::kyogre-primal::giratina-origin::arceus::yveltal:
Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Atk / 184 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe
Mild Nature
- Swords Dance
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Rock Tomb

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 204 SpA / 52 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder Wave
- Defog

Arceus-Fairy @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Recover

Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 Spe
Timid Nature
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Toxic


A dual Primal core team by The Dovahneer that features the interesting U-turn Momentum core, featuring Mega Scizor. Mega Scizor is the main quirk of the team, this allows it to easily generate momentum via slow U-turns. This allows for the team options such as Primal Kyogre to get safe switch ins and turn the table of the battle. Both Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon take advantage of this very well.

Primal Kyogre being the main wallbreaker along with Mega Scizor means it can easily get in safely from a U-turn and make the opponent question how to stop Primal Kyogre from getting too many free turns. A Curse Mega Scizor set is chosen, this allows it to deal with a myriad of physical attackers such as Arceus-Normal, Necrozma Dusk Mane etc. Though one can opt for Swords Dance for more cleaning power in the late game if they so wish. Mixed Swords Dance Primal Groudon is a formidable breaker in USM and pairs greatly with Primal Kyogre to help break down the fatter balances and stall teams.

Arceus-Fairy and Giratina-O create the general defensive backbone of the team. Arceus-Fairy opting for a Stealth Rock set which is a consistent Stealth Rock user in the current USM meta and checking important offensive threats to the team such as Yveltal, Marshadow and Calm Mind Arceus-Dark. Giratina-O fits nicely with Arceus-Fairy providing defog support and being a good general blanket check to a myriad of threats such as Primal Groudon, Necrozma Dusk Mane, etc. It also opts for Thunder Wave which slows down faster threats, boosts Hex and it increases the amount of targets the dual primal core are faster than. Choice Scarf Yveltal is opted for in the final slot, it complements the U-turn core of Mega Scizor, provides a good revenge killer of ghost types such as Mega Gengar and being faster than Mega Mewtwo-Y and Ultra Necrozma which this team naturally struggles against otherwise.

Threatlist:

:xerneas:
Though slightly uncommon, Hidden Power Fire Geomancy Xerneas can pose a issue for this team, if it happens to be at full, Since HP Fire lacks Focus Blast, Primal Groudon is the best course of action to weaken Xerneas first and have Mega Scizor revenge kill. Arceus-Fairy and Giratina-O can also deter Xerneas with Judgement and Thunder Wave respectively, Xerneas cannot setup on Primal Kyogre in any circumstances.

:ho-oh:
This team is equipped with offensive options to deal with Ho-Oh. so it is important to not give free turns to Ho-Oh and pressure Stealth Rock up against Ho-Oh teams. Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon have the stopping power to deal with it, however they cannot switch in. Yveltal also has Foul Play does a huge amount to any Ho-Oh.

:arceus:
Though this looks weird on paper as a threat, Calm Mind Arceus-Dark in the late game can be dangerous with a weakened Primal Kyogre, since Arceus-Fairy Judgement doesnt do enough to a boosted Arceus-Dark. its important to overpower it with Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Fairy. Mega Scizor can also take on unboosted Arceus-Dark, take care during games to keep pokemon around that can overpower it in the late game and prevent it from setting up a potential late game sweep.




DD Zygarde Bulky Offense | Provided by the Ubers Council

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 144 HP / 156 Atk / 56 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb
- Swords Dance

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic

Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 36 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Foul Play
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Defog

Zygarde-Complete @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 228 Atk / 48 SpD / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Thousand Arrows
- Glare

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Trick Room

A bulky offense with a very successful tournaments showing which revolves around Dragon Dance Z-Outrage Zygarde-C. The teamamtes enable Zygarde-C to be threatening against the opponents team or allow it to act as a winning condition. Mega Gengar is able to trap and eliminate common Zygarde-C checks such as Support Arceus formes like Arceus-Water and Arceus-Fairy, Primal Kyogre. Most importantly, Mega Gengar is able to function as the teams greatest revenge-killer and able to revenge kill threats that would otherwise be menacing to the team such as Ultra Necrozma.

Swords Dance Primal Groudon adds a breaker to the team to allow it have good wallbreaking power against bulkier targets Zygarde-C would otherwise struggle to break, while providing Stealth Rock utility for the team. Necrozma Dusk Mane also functions as a winning condition and makes a solid pairing with Zygarde-C while also being important to the team for typing synergy, dealing with threatening Fairy-types such as Geomancy Xerneas. Both have great synergy as winning conditions as they deal with each others checks, Necrozma Dusk Mane is more of a late game sweeper, however, there may be scenarios where it will have to break in the earlier stages of a game and Zygarde-C will clean instead.

Arceus-Water is the centre of the teams defensive backbone and also being able to function as a pivot, especially against Primal Kyogre, helping to deal with Offensive Primal Groudon and other pressing offensive threats such as Dragon Dance Mega Salamence, it is important to when to let Arceus go due to the kind of defensive resilience it provides to the team. Choice Scarf Yveltal is also chosen as a much needed provider of Defog support and a check to Ghost-types such as Marshadow and a answer to Mega Mewtwo-Y which would otherwise be extremely threatening to this team. Yveltal also can help generate momentum thanks to U-turn and this pairs really well with Mega Gengar and allows it to lure in Fairy-types for Mega Gengar to either take advantage of and force to switch out or trap and remove if its already Mega.

Threatlist:

:arceus:
While it is uncommon, Calm Mind Arceus-Dark has good potential to setup and sweep this team, the best way to deal with it is to overload it with a strong offensive option such as Dragonium-Z with Zygarde, or overpower it with Swords Dance Primal Groudon though it then becomes important to keep these Pokemon healthy. Though this can be difficult to do, a change in Mega Gengar set could also be considered of removing Hidden Power Ice to Focus Blast, Could help waver the extremely pressing threat Calm Mind Arceus-Dark is, however even with this change, it can still be troublesome.

:mewtwo-mega-y:
Mega Mewtwo-Y in general is a problem to Zygarde teams, it has the right coverage to be annoying, It is important to not give it too much free turns or force a trade with Mega Mewtwo-Y. Keeping Yveltal healthy also becomes important as it is the only team member that is faster than it and is the main reason Choice Scarf Yveltal is chosen for these teams. Primal Groudon and Necrozma Dusk Mane can force trades if necessary.

:yveltal:
Similar to Mega Mewtwo-Y, Life Orb Yveltal is annoying, the best way to deal with it is to force trades, Arceus-Water can Recover stall it out along with Toxic as it is faster than Yveltal, Primal Groudon can also Rock Tomb to do a significant amount of damage and be faster next turn, while Zygarde-C can simply take a hit and overpower it with the Z move at +1, if you find yourself in this position.


Mega Mewtwo Y + Ho-Oh Balance | Submitted by PurpleGatorade
1569859081810.png
1569859090225.png
1569859145670.png
1569859170134.png
1569859185143.png
:zygarde-complete:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 40 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Ho-Oh @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Toxic
- Defog

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Roar

Arceus-Dark @ Dread Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Defog

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
- Gyro Ball

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Haze
- Thousand Arrows
- Toxic
- Rest

This is a balance team by PurpleGatorade that revolves around setting up Spikes + stealth Rock and cleaning with Mega Mewtwo-Y in the lategame. Mega Mewtwo-Y's damage output against other balance and Bulky Offense teams is compounded by hazards, Which Ferrothorn and Primal Groudon provide. Both also check Primal Kyogre and Xerneas adequately, with Support Primal Groudon running Roar in this case to fend off Geomancy Xerneas.

Scarf Ho-Oh is an excellent revenge killer and balance breaker, and it also provides a much needed check to mixed Rock Polish Primal Groudon. Arceus dark is the principal defogger of the team and also functions as a check to Lunala, Yveltal, Mega Salamence, and Zygarde-C. Finally, defensive Zygarde-c is the team's main method of defeating primal groudon and other physical attackers. With the combination of Haze + Toxic, it's easy enough to whittle any offensive threat down to the range of Mega Mewtwo-Y or Ho-Oh.

Threatlist:

1569862654587.png

Marshadow, such as Life Orb variants are problematic for this team and require some careful play. Ohkoing Arceus Dark with Close Combat and revenge killing Mega Mewtwo-Y with Shadow Sneak. However, Zygarde-C beats all non-Hidden Power Ice sets. Ho-oh is able to easily revenge kill it or even switch in if there is no Stealth Rock up on your side of the field.

1569862889735.png

Mixed Swords Dance Primal Groudon can be threatening, but Zygarde can Haze + Toxic to wear it down.

1569863115978.png

Stallbreaker Yveltal can annoy several team members, but as long as Stealth Rock is off the field, Ho-oh can switch in, toxic it, and stall it out by constantly switching or KO it with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird., Arceus-Dark can also deal with it to an extent, force it to roost with Ice Beam and its potency can be limited by setting Stealth Rock.
 
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steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:groudon-primal:Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire:kyogre-primal:

Generation 6 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Burn damage is 12.5%
  • Soul Dew boosts Lati@s special stats by 50%
  • Dark Void has an accuracy of 80%
  • Sucker Punch has a base power of 80
  • Gengar has Levitate
  • Mega evolving does not grant speed changes before attacking
  • Aerilate and sibling abilities yield a damage multiplier of 1.3
  • Thunder Wave is 100% accurate
  • Paralysis factors paralyzed Pokémon's speed by 0.25
  • Parental Bond's second strike is half the power of the first
  • Prankster does affect Dark-types

Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder
- Stealth Rock

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Wave

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 100 Def / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Geomancy

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Extreme Speed

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Dialga always seems to find a valuable role in Uber metagames. The shuca berry set used provides the otherwise frail team with a strong Stealth Rock user and a great offensive check to Salamence. Dialga's issues with Darkrai is being solved by the use of RestTalk Geomancy Xerneas, which similarly benefits from Dialga's ability to set Stealth Rock against the troublesome Ho-oh balances with ease. The teams primarily stallbreakers, Primal Groudon and Deoxys-A complement each other with the former providing the latter an easy switch-in to Klefki, among other things. Arceus-Normal and Salamence provide the team with great offensive checks to the majority of the tier, as well as complementing each other by putting pressure on physically defensive Pokémon.


Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Skill Swap
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Facade
- Roost

Arceus @ Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake

Darkrai @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Dark Pulse

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 100 Def / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Geomancy



Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Focus Blast
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 208 SpD / 52 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 216 SpA / 40 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hex
- Toxic
- Defog
- Thunder Wave

Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Play Rough

Trademark of the Choice Band Ho-oh+Klefki balance archetype. Deploys Arceus-Water in order to gain a stronger match up against Ho-oh, Primal Groudon and Salamence but an Arceus-Normal is a feasible choice as it provides stronger match ups vs Ho-oh-less balances in general. Spread status and clean with Mega Gengar.


Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Hex
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Toxic Spikes
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin

Rayquaza @ Choice Band
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Waterfall
- V-create
- Extreme Speed

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Recover

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 156 HP / 196 Atk / 104 SpD / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Tomb
- Dragon Claw

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 200 Def / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
IVs: 31 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / 31 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Focus Blast

This is an offensive team with Rayquaza as the main wall breaker and Cloyster as it's lead. It's pretty straightforward. Cloyster is a solid lead that can set Toxic Spikes, can pressure stuff with Shell Smash + Icicle Spear and also has access to Rapid Spin, which makes it very useful against other leads. Primal Groudon is the team's Stealth Rock user and also checks Xerneas, Primal Kyogre and Steel types. Rayquaza is the team's main wall breaker. With Choice Band as it's item, Rayquaza hits ridiculously hard, making it very hard for most teams to deal with it. Scarf Xerneas helps against threats like Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, Darkrai, lati@s etc which are pretty threatening to the team, otherwise. Mega Gengar is a solid mega evolution that can take out key threats thanks to Shadow Tag. Lastly, Arceus is there to revenge kill weakened stuff and acts as a late game sweeper.
606 -
(168+ at +2)
604 -
(252+ in sand)
598 -
(252 at +2)
582 -
(252+ at +1)
574 -
(252+ at +1) , (252+ at +2)
565 -
(252+ at +1)
558 -
(252+ at +1)
552 -
(186 at +2)
550 -
(252 in sand)
532 -
(252+ at +1)
530 -
(252+ at +2)
524 -
(252+ at +2)
522 -
(252 at +2)
519 -
(252+ at +1)
518 -
(252 at +2)
508 -
(252 at +1)
506 -
(76 at +2)
---[Boosted]----------
504 -
(252+)
492 -
(252+ at +1)
490 -
(44 at +2)
489 -
(252+ at +1)
480 -
(176 at +1)
478 -
(252 at +2)
475 -
(252+ at +1)
463 -
(252+ at +1)
460 -
(56 at +2)
459 -
(252+ at +1)
448 -
(252 at +1)
445 -
(252 at +1)
438 -
(252+)
433 -
(252 at +1)
430 -
(252+ at +1)
429 -
(216+)
426 -
(252+ at +1)
421 -
(252 at +1)
418 -
(252 at +1)
---[Base 140+]----------
416 -
(252+)
399 -
(252)
397 -
(252+ at +1)
394 -
(252+)
391 -
(252 at +1)
388 -
(252+), (252 at +1)
385 -
(216+)
383 –
(252+)
377 –
(252+)
---[Base 120+]----------
372 –
(252+)
355 –
(252+)
350 –
(252+)
---[Base 100+]----------
339 -
(252)
330 -
(96+)
328 –
(252+)
326 –
(252+)
320 -
(176)
319 -
(252)
317 –
(252+)
---[Base 90+]----------
306 –
(252+)
302 -
(252+)
299 -
(252)
297 -
(252)
290 –
(136), (56)
289 -
(252)
---[Base 80+]----------
287 -
(252+)
284 –
(252+)
280 -
(176)
279 -
(252)
276 -
(0)
275 -
(252)
273 -
(252+)
268 -
(0)
265 -
(252+)
262 -
(252+)
261 -
(252)
259 -
(252)
245 -
(44)
244 -
(32)
243 -
(252+)
239 -
(252)
236 -
(0)
234 -
(0)
226 -
(0)
218 -
(252+)
216 -
(0)
194 -
(0-)
---[Uninvested Base 90+]----------
186 -
(0)
176 -
(0)
166 -
(0)
158 -
(0)
156 -
(0)
146 -
(0)
136 -
(0)
121 -
(0-,0)
112 -
(0-,0)
102 -
(0)
96 -
(0)
76 -
(0), (0-,0)
63 -
(0-,0)
40 -
(0-,0)
 
Last edited:

steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:kyurem-black:Black 2 & White 2:kyurem-white:

Generation 5 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Higher base power of following moves: Draco Meteor (140), Hydro Pump (120), Thunder (120), Fire Blast (120), Surf (95), Ice Beam (95), Flamethrower (95), Thunderbolt (95) Overheat (140), Hurricane (120), Dragon Pulse (90), Hidden Power (70)
  • Will-O-Wisp has an accuracy of 75%
  • Defog clears hazards, Light Screen, Reflect, and Safeguard only on the target's side of the field, not your own
  • Dark and Ghost are resisted by Steel
  • Sleep turns reset upon switching out
  • The abilities Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, and Snow Warning enable permanent weather
  • Knock Off has a base power of 20
  • Whirlwind and Roar check accuracy and evasion
  • Ghost types are affected by trapping abilities and effects, such as Shadow Tag
credit goes to Minority for the Arceus minisprites. Every rank is sorted internally.

S Rank

Kyogre

A Rank

A+

Genesect
Arceus-Ghost
Giratina-O
Groudon
Dialga
Latios
Arceus-Normal
Arceus-Fighting
Darkrai

A

Deoxys-S
Deoxys-A
Ho-Oh
Ferrothorn
Latias
Palkia
Rayquaza

A-

Arceus-Steel
Excadrill
Tyranitar
Kabutops

B Rank

B+

Arceus-Grass
Forretress
Tentacruel
Accelgor
Arceus-Water
Arceus-Rock
Froslass
Gliscor

B

Arceus-Dark
Skarmory
Cloyster
Mewtwo
Shaymin-S
Arceus-Ground
Arceus-Electric
Terrakion
Zekrom
Landorus-T
Giratina
Lugia

B-

Jirachi
Espeon
Heatran
Omastar
Blaziken
Kingdra
Tornadus-T
Arceus-Dragon
Probopass
Garchomp
Qwilfish
Scolipede

C Rank

C+

Ariados
Hippowdon
Reshiram
Kyurem-W
Crustle
Arceus-Psychic
Wobbuffet
Cresselia
Manaphy
Ludicolo
Sableye
Xatu
Thundurus

C

Lilligant
Shiftry
Gastrodon
Chansey
Blissey
Mamoswine
Victini
Deoxys-D
Landorus
Salamence
Arceus-Poison

C-

Smeargle
Aerodactyl
Bronzong
Arceus-Fire
Arceus-Ice
Gothitelle
Abomasnow

D Rank

Dugtrio
Arceus-Flying
Deoxys
Arceus-Bug

Groudon @ Earth Plate
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Tail

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Iron Head

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 164 HP / 148 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Healing Wish

Built in 2013 when Kebabe modified Hack's RMT Droughtfest, this team has shown great progress against a wide variety of opponents. Instead of hinging on a very thin thread of having to prevent Stealth Rock at all cost to support Ho-oh, the team centers around accomplishing an Arceus-Normal sweep, something it has shown to do very consistently. The fact that it has the flexibility in the hazard game due to Cloyster's abilities to set spikes, spin or luring in and weakening Ekiller-checks such as Arceus-Ghost makes the game plan much more hyper offensively oriented than the typical "magic sun" teams seen at the time. Ho-oh is of course a beast when Stealth Rock isn't up, but one has to understand that the main goal of the team is ultimately an Ekiller sweep.


Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 56 Def / 136 SpD
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Payback
- Superpower
- Fire Blast

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Extreme Speed

Arceus-Fighting @ Fist Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpA / 112 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Recover

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Explosion

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head
- Earthquake

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 204 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Recover

This sand balance revolves around having relatively sound checks to just about anything in the BW2 Ubers meta. It has a solid match up versus just about anything, and that is its biggest selling point. Sand is greatly disruptive for the more prevalent sun and rain-based teams, and Tyranitar in itself is a fully functioning check to threats like Arceus-Ghost and Latios / Latias. Mixed Rayquaza is something to note in particular on this team. It greatly helps the team's defensive and offensive synergy by checking dangerous weather sweepers while at the same time breaking walls for the team's cleaner, Excadrill. Latias + Genesect + Arceus-Fighting is likely the most solid combination in BW2 Ubers for a balanced team, and forms a solid backbone to check a multitude of big threats. Arceus-Fighting's set is largely contributing to the team's good match up vs sun.


Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald
- Roar

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Calm Mind
- Roost

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 136 SpD / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Surf
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Thunder

This team is based on a build by the legendary Pi Face. As that team has a Palkia, and thus no ground immunity, Hack did some remastering. It is a good example of how a team can resemble stall while still be efficient in the offensive BW2 metagame. Three steels might seem over the top but Excadrill and Ferrothorn have noteworthy synergy due to their secondary types. Surf Arceus-Ghost stands out as an odd set. It was first proposed by Donkey, who found it to be a good anti-spinning tool that happened to hit a lot of threats to bulkier teams quite hard. Genesect is there because it is simply too good to not use, even for a bulky team.


Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Low Kick
- Fire Blast

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Scald

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

Arceus-Fighting @ Fist Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Judgment
- Toxic
- Recover
- Stone Edge

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 156 Atk / 248 Def / 104 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Shadow Sneak

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam

Problems made this team for a MUTE game back in 2013 but utilized a lead Garchomp as opposed to Tyranitar. While this guarantees outspeeding Palkia, all Dialga and efficient anti leading of Deoxys-A, Garchomp's lackluster match up against the common Deoxys-S holds it back. Of course, it one is a willing to sacrifice the effeciency vs this lead in particular, Garchomp can replace Tyranitar. This team plays almost entirely off of getting hazards up quicker and in larger quantity than the opponent. This makes handling the team's phazers and Arceus-Fighting incredibly hard.
Dedicated Lead
:deoxys-speed::deoxys-attack::accelgor::tyranitar::excadrill::forretress::froslass::cloyster::skarmory::garchomp::scolipede::crustle::ariados::mamoswine::smeargle:
Spiker
:deoxys-speed::deoxys-attack::deoxys-defense::cloyster::ferrothorn::froslass::skarmory::forretress::accelgor::crustle::omastar::qwilfish::scolipede::smeargle:
Toxic Spiker
:cloyster::omastar::forretress::qwilfish::scolipede::tentacruel::ariados::smeargle:
Stealth Rocker
:deoxys-speed::deoxys-attack::dialga::groudon::excadrill::ferrothorn::forretress::garchomp::gliscor::heatran::hippowdon::jirachi::landorus-therian::blissey::chansey::skarmory::tyranitar::bronzong::crustle::omastar::mamoswine::smeargle::arceus:
Choice Scarfer
:genesect::kyogre::dialga::darkrai::palkia::shaymin-sky::ho-oh::terrakion::zekrom::salamence::garchomp::reshiram::landorus:
Wallbreaker
:kyogre::groudon::darkrai::latios::deoxys-attack::ho-oh::blaziken::palkia::dialga::rayquaza::kabutops::zekrom::omastar::kingdra::excadrill::kyurem-white::mewtwo:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Stallbreaker
:latios::darkrai::ho-oh::rayquaza::gliscor::mewtwo::palkia::giratina-origin::manaphy::heatran::arceus:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Physical Wall
:giratina::groudon::ferrothorn::forretress::gliscor::giratina-origin::skarmory::landorus-therian::lugia::hippowdon::cresselia::deoxys-defense::wobbuffet::sableye::arceus:
Special Wall
:kyogre::latias::ho-oh::excadrill::tyranitar::tentacruel::giratina::lugia::jirachi::heatran::probopass::dialga::wobbuffet::cresselia::chansey::blissey::bronzong::arceus:
Phazer
:kyogre::dialga::giratina::giratina-origin::groudon::palkia::lugia::rayquaza::heatran::hippowdon::latios::latias::skarmory::arceus:
Hazard Control
:excadrill::kabutops::tentacruel::forretress::cloyster::espeon::xatu:
Spinblocker
:giratina-origin::giratina::sableye::froslass::arceus:
Wish/Cleric/Healing Wish
:blissey::chansey::jirachi::shaymin-sky::latias::cresselia::lilligant:
Status Absorber
:kyogre::giratina-origin::giratina::dialga::gliscor::espeon::xatu::manaphy::chansey::blissey::arceus:
Priority User
:giratina-origin::deoxys-attack::rayquaza::kabutops::sableye::genesect::darkrai::thundurus::mamoswine::abomasnow::arceus:
Specs Kyogre Check
:latios::latias::palkia::giratina::ludicolo::gastrodon::abomasnow::arceus:
Kyogre Soft Check
:kyogre::dialga::groudon::ferrothorn::tentacruel::kyurem-white::chansey::blissey::arceus:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Extreme Killer Arceus Check
:groudon::skarmory::giratina-origin::kabutops::omastar::forretress::terrakion::giratina::lugia::hippowdon::sableye::arceus:
Darkrai Check
:kyogre::genesect::rayquaza::dialga::ho-oh::tyranitar::terrakion::zekrom::jirachi::chansey::blissey::arceus:, Spikes, Toxic Spikes
Rain Abuser
:kyogre::latios::latias::ferrothorn::palkia::kabutops::tentacruel::omastar::kingdra::jirachi::manaphy::ludicolo::tornadus-therian::qwilfish::arceus:
Sun Abuser
:latios::latias::ho-oh::heatran::blaziken::reshiram::lilligant::shiftry::victini::arceus:
Sand Abuser
:excadrill::landorus::arceus:
 
Last edited:

steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:dialga:Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum:palkia:

Generation 4 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • Sleep lasts 2-5 turns, the counter does not reset upon switching out
  • Sleep talk will fail when used more than one in conjunction with a choice item. Switching out resets this
  • Magic Coat does not reflect entry hazards, Taunt, or Torment
  • Extreme Speed has a priority of +1
  • Explosion and Self-Destruct have an effective base power of 500 and 400, respectively
  • Pokémon holding Life Orb will not take recoil damage hitting a substitute
  • Encore lasts from 4-8 turns
  • Toxic is 85% accurate
  • Taunt lasts 3-5 turns
  • Wish restores 50 % of the recipient's health, regardless of what HP the Wish user has
  • The ability Multitype prevents Arceus from getting Tricked
  • Synchronize does not Poison the opponent when the Synchronizing Pokemon is affected by Toxic Spikes
  • When a Pokemon uses Healing Wish, the Pokemon that receives the Healing Wish takes hazard damage before health restoration and recovery from status. Additionally, if the Healing Wish user is faster than the foe's attacker, the Healing Wish recipient takes the damage from their attack upon coming in.
S Rank

Dialga
Kyogre
Giratina-O
Darkrai


A Rank

A+


Palkia
Deoxys-S
Groudon
Jirachi
Latias
Rayquaza
Mewtwo

A

Garchomp
Latios
Tyranitar
Forretress
Wobbuffet
Scizor
Heatran

A-

Skarmory
Lugia
Gliscor
Shaymin-S
Blissey
Deoxys-A

B Rank

B+

Ho-Oh
Manaphy
Froslass

B

Bronzong
Lucario
Kingdra
Cloyster
Tentacruel
Mew
Kabutops

B-

Metagross
Giratina
Ludicolo
Quagsire
Deoxys


C Rank

C+

Infernape
Heracross
Qwilfish
Salamence
Shiftry
Cresselia
Aerodactyl


C

Typhlosion
Abomasnow
Celebi
Gengar
Mamoswine
Omastar

C-

Azelf
Gyarados
Uxie
Deoxys-D

D Rank

Dugtrio
Ninjask
Shedinja
Starmie
Tangrowth
Victreebel

E Rank
Wynaut

Mew lead Offense | Provided by Iris
Mew @ Lum Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Explosion

Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Flamethrower
- Thunder

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Thunder
- Surf

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Ice Beam
- Aura Sphere
- Flamethrower
- Self-Destruct

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 216 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Wish
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head

Mew reliably gets up Stealth Rock versus most leads. U-turn allows It to switch out versus Taunter Pokemon like Deoxys and break their Focus Sash at the same time, while Fireblast prevents Forretress from totally blocking Mew. Jirachi builds momentum with slow U-turns into Latios and Mewtwo, 2 very dangerous Pokemon that works well with each others and with Jirachi. Dialga is a really good pokemon and really splashable. Finally, Rayquaza is used for his good priority and strong offensive presence.



Cloyster Offense | Provided by BKC
Cloyster (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Payback
- Ice Shard
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes

Dialga @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 16 SAtk / 204 SDef / 40 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 244 Atk / 216 SAtk / 48 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Shadow Sneak
- Earthquake
- Thunder
- Draco Meteor

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Atk / 16 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Fire Blast

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

This is a simple but very dangerous offensive team. The bulky Dialga gets up rocks against the faster Pokemon, taking out Cloyster (after it's gotten both Spikes down, which it's very good at) for a fearsome one-two hazard punch. Palkia is often checked by being choiced, so a lot of teams are up the creek without a paddle when it switches moves. Any non-Scarf Palkia set works here, I just like Lustrous for brutally strong Hydro Pumps fueled by its partner in crime, Scarf Kyogre, who gets tons of free switchins off U-turns from Choice Band Scizor. Haban can definitely work on Palkia for the extra Lati@s lure to secure that endgame Scarf Kyogre sweep. Thunder isn't very common on Giratina-O but it smashes Kyogre, Lugia and Ho-Oh.


:tyranitar::mewtwo::skarmory::palkia::giratina-origin::garchomp:
Stalltwo Hazard Stack | Provided by Zf

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 SpD
Brave Nature
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpD / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Roost

Palkia @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Thunder

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stealth Rock


Giratina-O lead + Wish Blissey | Provided by ZF
:giratina-origin::kyogre::forretress::blissey::palkia::groudon:
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Thunder
- Shadow Sneak

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 236 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Protect
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 8 HP / 252 Def / 248 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Spacial Rend
- Thunder

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
Hazards:

Stealth Rock: Armaldo / Blissey / Bronzong / Deoxys / Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S / Dialga / Forretress / Garchomp / Gliscor / Groudon / Heatran / Jirachi / Mamoswine / Mew / Skarmory / Tyranitar
Spikes: Cloyster / Deoxys / Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S / Forretress / Froslass / Skarmory /
Toxic Spikes: Cloyster / Forretress / Qwilfish / Tentacruel
Rapid Spin: Armaldo / Forretress / Kabutops / Tentacruel


Team Support:

Wish: Blissey / Jirachi / Latias
Heal Bell / Aromatherapy: Blissey / Shaymin-Sky
Healing Wish: Blissey / Jirachi / Latias / Shaymin-Sky
Walls:
Physically Defensive: Cresselia / Giratina / Groudon / Lugia / Skarmory
Specially Defensive: Abomasnow / Blissey / Bronzong / Dialga / Heatran / Ho-Oh / Kyogre / Ludicolo / Lugia / Palkia / Scizor / Skarmory / Tyranitar / Wobbuffet

Revenge Killers:

Choice Scarf Users: Darkrai / Deoxys-S / Dialga / Garchomp / Heatran / Jirachi / Kyogre / Metagross / Palkia / Rayquaza / Salamence / Scizor / Shaymin-Sky
Trappers: Dugtrio / Scizor / Tyranitar / Weavile / Wobbuffet

Weather:
Sun: Shiftry / Victreebel
Rain: Kabutops / Kingdra / Ludicolo / Manaphy / Omastar / Qwilfish
Setters: Abomasnow / Groudon / Kyogre / Tyranitar

Stallbreakers:
Set-Up Sweepers: Darkrai / Dialga / Garchomp / Giratina / Groudon / Kyogre / Latias / Latios / Lucario / Lugia / Manaphy / Mewtwo / Palkia / Rayquaza / Scizor
Other: Darkrai / Gliscor / Heatran / Mewtwo / Skarmory / Shaymin-Sky


Priority Users: Abomasnow / Cloyster / Darkrai / Deoxys / Deoxys-A / Deoxys-S / Froslass / Giratina / Giratina-O / Lucario / Qwilfish / Rayquaza / Scizor

Phazers: Dialga / Giratina / Giratina-O / Groudon / Heatran / Latias / Lugia / Kyogre / Skarmory



From December 22, 2019, to October 11, 2020, Arceus with 100 EVs in 5 stats (Farceus) was allowed in DPP Ubers. This is the most optimal Arceus that is cartridge-legal in DPP. Following nearly a year of inclusion in the Ubers Tournament Circuit, the pre- and post-Farceus playerbase banned it with a very slim 62.5% majority, making Arceus the only Pokemon to ever be banned from any Ubers generation as of now. The only DPP resources created during this time were a lead guide by Lasen, adapted from iris's old one, and a viability ranking, created on the last day of Farceus being the official metagame. Both are posted below.
Every rank is sorted internally.

S Rank

:kyogre: Kyogre
:dialga: Dialga
:giratina-origin: Giratina-Origin

A Rank

A+


:darkrai: Darkrai
:groudon: Groudon
:arceus: Arceus
:arceus: Arceus-Fighting
:latias: Latias

A

:latios: Latios
:palkia: Palkia
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:deoxys-speed: Deoxys-Speed
:garchomp: Garchomp
:Arceus-Steel: Arceus-Steel

A-

:arceus-ghost: Arceus Ghost
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:kabutops: Kabutops
:skarmory: Skarmory
:jirachi: Jirachi
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:forretress: Forretress

B Rank

B+


:tentacruel: Tentacruel
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-Attack
:giratina: Giratina
:lugia: Lugia
:blissey: Blissey
:bronzong: Bronzong
:arceus-ground: Arceus-Ground
:heatran: Heatran
:wobbuffet: Wobbuffet

B

:qwilfish: Qwilfish
:froslass: Froslass
:arceus: Arceus-Electric:
:arceus-grass: Arceus-Grass
:arceus: Arceus-Water
:arceus: Arceus-Dragon
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky
:manaphy: Manaphy
:kingdra: Kingdra

B-

:ludicolo: Ludicolo
:scizor: Scizor
:arceus-dark: Arceus-Dark
:cloyster: Cloyster

C Rank

C+


:mew: Mew
:Arceus: Arceus-Rock
:infernape: Infernape
:gliscor: Gliscor
:heracross: Heracross
:cresselia: Cresselia

C

:arceus-ice: Arceus-Ice
:arceus-Poison: Arceus-Poison
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-Defense
:shiftry: Shiftry

C-

:arceus: Arceus-Bug
:arceus: Arceus-Flying
:omastar: Omastar

D Rank

:salamence: Salamence
:Arceus: Arceus-Fire
:deoxys: Deoxys
:arceus-psychic: Arceus-Psychic

E Rank

:wynaut: Wynaut
DPP lead guide

(Not Really Ordered)
  1. Deoxys-Speed
The lead you must beat. if it can get 2+ layers on your team for sure, you should consider a lead change. The momentum one gets from SR + spikes makes HO the best and most consistent play style. Can be EV'd and has a movepool just large enough to beat almost any other lead.
  • -Focus Sash: Taunt, Spikes/Stealth Rock, Shadow Ball, Psycho Boost/Extreme Speed/Stealth Rock – standard deoxys. usually what one wants to counter. Psycho Boost nails Tentacruel (requires investment), Shadow Ball is the mirror, while Extreme Speed only allows 1 layer from Deo-A leads. Taunt depending on how much you want to stop opposing lead from setting-up hazards. 20+ Speed outspeeds Deoxys-Attack, scarfed Neutral natured base 95s or lower (eg. scarf Ogre, Lonely Rayquaza) max speed forces speed ties and allows Taunt vs. opposing Deoxys-Speed.
  • Offensive Sash: Shadow Ball, Spikes, HP Fire, Extreme Speed/Taunt – This set foregoes speed and potential longevity in order to be able to beat potential Forretress leads/switches, while also keeping opposing Deoxys to only one Hazard. Rash Nature forces Forre to be running SDef to avoid the OHKO.
  • Colbur Anti-Dark: 252hp 164 SpD (lives non LO ray draco 100%) Spikes, Superpower, E-Speed/Shadow Ball, Taunt/Stealth Rocks. The crux is EVs in combination with the Berry. Superpower kills Lum Tyranitar and Darkrai while also avoiding the OHKO from their respective STAB dark-type moves. Gameplan is to set up Spikes on Ttar, live the attack and then Superpower turn 2 to break its sash. 168 Attack EVs needed to OHKO Max HP Tyranitar, whereas uninvested kills equally uninvested Tar. Darkrai always dodges the OHKO, with or without a Chope Berry adorned to it.
  • Trick Scarf – A good way to handle other Deo-S without fearing speed ties, as well as crippling multiple other leads with a Trick. Speed is provided through Choice Scarf, so you can focus on bulk, instead. A spread of 248 HP / 164 Def / 96+ SpD avoids 2HKO from opposing Deoxys-S Shadow Ball, with the rest put in defense to take Tyranitar as well as possible.
  1. Darkrai
2 sets, Choice Scarf and not

  • Scarf – Dark Void, Dark Pulse, Trick, Focus Blast, Taunt / Focus Blast / Nasty Plot. Beats most leads 85% of the time. loses to Lum TTar (can’t OHKO) but can “beat” non Lum, Kyogre consistently beats (Either it’s also Scarfed, Lum or runs Sleep Talk) and Dialga. Mew is another lead you beat on paper, but is item dependent. Beats all Deoxys leads and Rayquaza lead.
  • Non Scarf aka Lum aka Focus Sash aka Chople aka Life Orb – Dark Void, Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, Taunt / Thunder Wave / Nasty Plot / Will-O-Wisp / Thunder / Quick Attack. The itemisation on lead Darkrai is almost as long as the list of viable items in this gen. Beats everything except the ones mentioned above and the rare M2. Trades a possible extra layer for more pressure against teams. 125 speed is the 4th highest in the tier (deoxys / mewtwo / skymin) so darkrai forces a scarf if these mons aren’t on the opponent’s team. First three moves are necessary, last one you have options.
Items:
  • Chople – loses to rare Scarf leads to 100% beat TTar, a lead created to stop Darkrai, and Deoxys-A. still loses to mewtwo because mewtwo doesn’t die to one pulse. Potentially beats Deoxys-Speed, item dependent.
  • Lum – loses to ttar in exchange to beat old school leads and get the jump on balance teams,as the way balance deals with darkrai is Status or a scarf. Harder for it to beat Deo-S leads.
(Note: Both items still make the darkrai mirror a guessing game.)
  • Life Orb – Only seen on the NP set. tries to put immediate pressure. But without SR, you can’t get the kills as easily, so try and preserve.
The 4th Move:
  • NP – Immediate pressure. leans towards all out offense where you don’t mind trading 1v1. good on wobb teams to force out the scarf
  • WoW – tries to catch balance teams off guard. Most common switch-ins to Darkrai after Void connects are Kyogre, Dialga, Jirachi, and Scizor. This catches the latter two off guard and makes them usually worthless,while also stacking residual damage on the former two.
  • Thunder – for sun teams or teams that trouble with Kyogre. It also has the added benefit of paralyzing 30% but mainly you want the 2HKOon RestOgre.
  • QA / Sucker – QA helps against Deoxys. useful on spike weak teams (usually 5 grounded mons and a gira / ray). The only noteworthy use is the super rare ninjask. Sucker helps against the mewtwo revenge, adds a little more chip on giras when darkrai is in sneak range. Sucker should only be used if you expect a Mewtwo lead.
  • Thunderwave – tries to catch the Scarfer switching-in. Good for teams that struggle with speed control on their other members. Most teams would appreciate the pressure the first 3 moves on the list bring.
  1. Rayquaza

Life Orb Mixed – Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, ExtremeSpeed Brick Break / Earthquake. Outrage is super rare. Break on LO is recommended so Lum TTar dies immediately. Speed creep caps with 216 Speed, which outspeeds Neutral natured base 90s(Dialga Don, Ogre). Special Attack is prioritised over Attack as. Can potentially run a set-up move in order to put more offensive pressure on fatter teams, but usually loses even harder to Deoxys Leads that way. Sash should be considered if that’s the case.
Lum Berry targets Darkrai and Groudon leads, or stray Mews that might try to Thunder Wave. Power drop is noticeable. Focus Sash makes sure you survive whichever one hit your opponent throws at you and is pretty good when you want to preserve Rayquaza for the mid-late game.
  1. Tyranitar
2 sets, the sets are honestly 50/50 - depends on the player
  • Lum / Focus Sash / Chople 252 HP / enough SpD to live darkrai Blast (248/68 but more is viable to survive Modest Kyogre) / 188+Atk. Adamant/Brave. Payback, Stealth Rock, Superpower/Low Kick/Earthquake, Fire Blast / Thunder Wave / Stone Edge. beats Deoxys, Froslass, Darkrai, Dialga Forretress. Earthquake is used to beat Tentacruel leads. Stone Edge is used just as a strong STAB,as it doesn’t actually hit something meaningful besides Rayquaza. Thunder-Wave is used in the last slot when you want to incapacitate whatever comes in after the suicide lead. Low Kick is preferred if you plan to keep Tyranitar for the long game. Ttars best quality is his longevity. Unlike Deoxys or Darkrai, TTar will come back in the game. Chople is an option if you don’t wanna invest in bulk but want to survive Superpower or Focus Blast.
(Note: Takes 80 Spa to ohko forrey 100% of the time with a Brave Nature, Adamant can kill non Max-max)

  • Sash 252 Speed / 80 SpA / 176 Attack Hasty. Low Kick, Fire Blast / Stealth Rocks, Crunch, SRocks / Stone Edge- This set changes TTar from a mere Darkrai counter to mainly deoxys / froslass counter. the extra speed allows ttar to punish greedier teams that don’t attack it. best on up tempo teams that don’t mind sacrificing ttar early for good damage on the opponents likely base 90 mon.
  • Other Moves:
    • Pursuit – Only on the lum set too. For teams that need a good lead and benefit from spinning or a dead latias / latios.
    • Rest – Best used with pursuit and a chesto berry. a paralyzed brave ttar is fine, and you don’t want to waste your lum on that. the price of 2 lost turns is too steep.
The next tier hazard leads
  1. Tentacruel
Timid Lum – Hydro Pump, Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, Icy Wind
216+ Speed outspeeds +Spd Rayquaza, 176+ creeps base +Spd 90s. 40HP / 204 SDef avoids OHKO from standard Deo-S Psycho Boost. 40 HP needed to live through Payback + sand from standard Tyranitar. Rest of the EVs are usually put in SAtk. Lum berry is mandatory as very few things threaten with an OHKO and it invalidates Darkrai as well as T-Wave spreaders such as Dialga.Cruel has the benefit of beating Deoxys-Speed, Darkrai and Ray. base 100 speed is useful in getting up toxic spikes which is the best hazard in DPP Ubers, as only very few Pokemon are immune + not SR weak in top tier competition. Fits both stall and offensive builds, as it softens breakers and walls alike. Has the added benefit of coming back in and absorbing the T-spikes.
  1. Deoxys-A
Sash Extreme Lead - Spikes, Superpower, Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse, Extreme Speed / Psycho Boost / Icy Wind / Fire Punch
Deoxys’ Attack form trades Speed form’s decent-to-good Tyranitar match-up for a good match-up against the other common hazard leads. Pressures Deoxys-Speed into only getting one layer of hazards up as it commonly drops Extreme Speed for a better utility move. Max speed is mandatory to outspeed anything that isn’t scarfed or named Deo-S. Superpower from max ATK with a Neutral Nature has a 44% chance of OHKOing uninvested TTar through Chople Berry, but 220 is enough to OHKO standard Blissey.
Psycho Boost nails Rayquaza and Tentacruel as well as potential Ghost-types wishing to switch-in on the predicted Extreme Speed. Other potential moves include Fire Punch for lead Forretress and Scizor, Signal beam to cover Darkrai and Deoxys at the same time and Stealth Rocks, but they’re all situational at best. Taunt, while appealing, fits better on something that can take a hit or two, meaning you might as well be running Deoxys-Speed at that point. Use only for the surprise factor. Icy Wind is even more niche, allowing you to win the Deo-S match-up 95% of the time. Usually ran without E-Speed, meaning you lose the mirror.
  1. Froslass
Sash Lead – 252+ Speed / 252 SpA. Spikes, Icy Wind, Shadow Ball, Taunt / Destiny Bond / Ice Shard
Froslass is a decent Spike lead that provides spin-blocking against the likes of Tentacruel or Forretress. It can beat both Deoxys forms and the rare Ray, but hard loses to Darkrai and TTar. Watch out for the rare Icy Wind Deo-A if you’re not running Ice Shard.

Final Moveslot:
  • Ice Shard – Helpful for the mirror and for removing Deo-A. End result should be a win without risking a 50-50. Also provides valuable momentum in the HO vs. HO match-up, something that’s ever so valuable.
  • Taunt – Best for T-Spikes weak teams, as nothing that uses T-Spikes in Ubers is faster than Froslass. Extremely useful in lead match-ups that don’t go for hazards such as the weather duo, as well as slower leads that lack priority.
  • Destiny Bond – A gimmicky option, since you can’t afford Taunt + DBond to have them continually switching. Any status move will just kill you, only run this if you live inside the opponent’s head rent-free.
  1. Dialga
Lum Bulky Stealth Rocks – 252 HP / 112 Speed / 144+ SpA. Draco Meteor, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave / Flamethrower, Thunder / Aura Sphere
A very strong anti-lead, Dialga functions quite similarly to the way it functions in the non lead slot; as a general Ghost/Water/Special attacking sponge. Lum Berry gets the beat on Darkrai which can’t beat you unless they’re running Life Orb and get a high roll on Focus Blast. Speed is enough to creep on Jolly Max-Speed TTar. Thunder Wave incapacitates whatever wishes to come in after you deal with the opposing lead. Thunder lands a hefty hit on Kyogre, while Aura Sphere attempts to deal with Tyranitar. Flamethrower is for the Steels that might attempt to switch-in and lead Forre.
  1. Forretress
THE NUT – 252 hp / 252+ SpD / 4 Atk. (Toxic) Spikes, Rapid Spin, Payback, (Toxic) Spikes / Protect / Pain Split / Toxic / Sleep Talk / Explosion / Stealth Rock
Forretress feats best on stall teams that have a Lugia or hate Spikes, as well as Ho-Oh suns. There is a distinct lack of Pursuit abusers in DPP Ubers outside of the occasional scarf Tyranitar, so stall teams can afford this anti-lead to slow down the game by setting up their hazards, or preventing hazard(s) from Deoxys with an extremely slow spin. Specially Defensive Forretress lives Fire Blast from the usual Tyranitar so it guarantees either one layer for yourself or a lack of hazards on your side of the field. Payback is necessary to hit a Ghost-type that tries to spin-block you if they were allowed a hazard up on a misprediction on your part.
Occa Berry lets you set-up Toxic Spikes against every lead except Life Orb Rayquaza and Scarf Kyogre, while Lum guarantees a layer against Darkrai.

Final Move:
  • Protect – scouts the myriad choice users in the tier. Also provides extra Lefties recovery + Poison damage racks up from T-Spikes.
  • Pain Split – helps combat Gira-O when you don’t have a pursuiter, deals more damage than Payback in the long run.
  • Sleep Talk – a neat tech move against teams that want a spin vs. Darkrai teams. Makes up for its inconsistency by being godlike in its good match-up.
  • Toxic – again, for Giratina-O. Has little utility outside that since most switch-ins on Forrey are Steel-types..
  • Explosion – seen on more balance teams. maybe gets a kill on greedy Lati or Kyogre.
  • Stealth Rocks – relatively easy to fit on a different member, only run if you can’t find a single other Pokemon to run them on.
  1. Metagross
Steel Anti-Lead – Focus Sash/ Lum 252+ Atk / 252 Speed / Meteor Mash, Bull Punch, Stealth Rock, Explosion
Metagross is a potent Anti-lead that provides rocks, being able to sponge attacks from every lead except Life Orb Rayquaza and revenge killing them with BP. It mostly takes advantage of its inherent bulk to avoid OHKOs from the most common leads. Lum as always answers Darkrai quite nicely. A Jolly nature can be run to outspeed Tyranitar, but that’s not of much importance when you just kill it with priority. Unlike many of the other leads on here, Metagross isn’t scared of trading kills with a well-timed Explosion, as it usually leads to getting a great momentum lead, which can be the difference between winning or losing any given match in DPP.
  1. Cloyster
Focus Sash Lead – Toxic Spikes, Payback, Ice Shard, Spikes / Rapid Spin / Explosion
Max Speed and Attack is needed to get the jump on Tyranitar leads and deal as much damage as possible. Cloyster is a remnant of the past and a more aggressive Toxic Spikes setter than Tentacruel because it can set regular Spikes. Anything else is largely the same or worse matchups except super rare leads like skymin. The only defining better matchup is froslass. Deoxys-S tends to be way bulkier than it used to be, so Payback -> Ice Shard is no longer a guaranteed kill. Final move is dependent on whether you struggle with steals, want to punish greedy leads or definitely need hazards removed. Adamant nature can be run if you want to have a chance to kill Deo-S with a combination of Payback + Ice Shard but you can then lose to Edge Tyranitar.
  1. Qwilfish
Sash Rain Abuser – 252 Atk / 252+ Speed Toxic Spikes, Payback, Aqua Jet, Explosion, Destiny Bond / Spikes
The extremely weird mixture of Tentacruel and Cloyster. Can absorb Toxic Spikes for your team potentially, but switching it in at any point means mistakes were made. Aqua Jet has worse offensive type coverage than Ice Shard on top of everything else, but at least you can outspeed and kill any Kyogre.
  1. Mamoswine
“Ancient” Sash lead – 252+ Atk / 252 Speed / Earthquake, Ice Shard, Stealth Rock, Endeavor
2007 OU lead now in Ubers! Will allow you to beat a newer player that doesn’t quite know what this ‘mon does or what Endeavour is, but its speed tier is honestly very bad for Ubers standards. Beats Deoxys, Rayquaza, Dialga as well as Dialga. Relies heavily on surprise factor and the opponent’s inexperience.
  1. Groudon
SunSetter – 240 HP / 176+ Def / 8 SpD / 88 Speed / Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Roar, Overheat, Stone Edge / Thunder Wave / Roar
Groudon is an oddity of a lead, as it provides a ton on paper but actually struggles to fulfill its role in action. Just like many other leads, it catches people by surprise and beats common leads but allows Deo-S to get 2 layers up. It sets up sun nicely and can take a hit from Kyogre, dealing massive damage in the process. Darkrai can meet a similar fate if Lum Berry is elected as the item of choice, as well as Tentacruel. However, leading Groudon has the downside of revealing the value sun plays for your team early and as it lacks consistent recovery not named leftovers, it gets chipped down pretty easily. Stone Edge is the go-to if you wish to hit the likes of Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, while Thunder-wave catches the various dragons and possible Giratinas that might wish to switch-in. Dragon Claw deals decent damage vs. Latis and Gira-O, but also require a hard read and they don’t OHKO. Still a decent middle ground, tho.
  1. Mew
Lum Anti-Lead – 252 HP 252+ Speed / U-Turn, Stealth Rock, Explosion, Taunt.
Another legacy lead, this Mew set is designed to Taunt slower mons like Tentacruel and absorb the taunt from Deoxys, U-Turn out and revenge kill. With the bulk that current day leads run, this is pretty difficult to pull off consistently. Fire Blast gets a node as the only way Mew has to touch Forretress. Any other option is better fit on a Mewtwo lead. Tyranitar and Tentacruel match-ups are reliant on whatever you both click and can go either way, but Taunt off of base 100 Speed shuts down all the lesser leads that you outspeed.
  1. Armaldo
Lum Spinner – 252 HP / 252+ / Atk / X-Scissor, Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, Rock Blast / Aqua Jet
The ultimate DPP gimmick lead, Armaldo can both safely spin in front of Deoxys and Absorb Darkrai’s Sleep, while also threatening to set-up rocks. Slow spin is appreciated as you can’t really outspeed anything anyway. Aqua Jet can be used if you’re confident you’re gonna live the hit from Deo-A.
Note: Rock Blast does not break sashes in DPP.
  1. Infernape
Sash lead – 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 208+ Speed Naive / Fake Out, Overheat / Fire Blast, Close Combat, Stealth Rock
Ape has a decent Speed tier, and a pretty good offensive typing, with Fire/Fighting covering pretty much every lead. Between Fake Out and Overheat, Ape can consistently kill lead Deoxys that forego bulk for attacking stats. Close Combat is pretty good at shutting down Kyogre and Dialga leads and cleans Tyranitar with ease. Darkrai however poses a big problem as it sleeps you no questions asked, while Froslass Spikes multiple times in front of you. Tentacruel resists all your moves and doesn’t mind taking a slap to the wrist in exchange for Toxic Spiking and potentially a decent hit with Icy Wind or Hydro Pump on your expected switch, while it also keeps hazards off of its side of the field.
  1. Ariados
Sash Spider – 252+ Atk / 252 Spe / X-Scissor, Toxic Spikes, Shadow Sneak, Baton Pass
Nothing shows dominance quite like bringing a big tarantula who’s highest stat barely breaks the 300 point mark, in Ubers no less. Ariados has access to Insomnia, making it capable of being a pretty great Darkrai answer, being able to bring it down with a well-timed X-Scissor combined with Shadow Sneak. The above combo also works vs. Deoxys. Baton Pass is useful for getting the jump on a double, without the risk of wasting HP on the Pokemon you want to bring in. Loses to anything not mentioned above, hard
  1. Deoxys-Normal

Sash Inferiority Syndrome – 112 Def 146 SAtk / 252 Speed Naive / Spikes, Stealth Rock, Shadow Ball, Extreme Speed
Imagine, if you will, a Deoxys-Attack that can potentially win the mirror but doesn’t get the kills it’s supposed to. That’s Deoxys-Normal. It does what Deo-A does, but slightly worse with its upside being… the chance to beat its brother. Don’t bother unless you want to be that guy.

Anti-Hazard Leads with no hazards
  1. Mewtwo
Boom Lum – 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252+ Speed Naive / Taunt, Icy Wind, Shadow Ball / Thunder, Selfdestruct / Aura Sphere / Psychic
Mewtwo’s amazing combination of stats and practically limitless movepool has always been envied, and this lead set utilises to its fullest extent. Slow hazard leads can easily be Taunted and later disposed of, while Deoxys-S loses to the combination of Icy Wind and Shadow Ball. Selfdestruct removes problematic set-up sweepers as well weather leads. Darkrai is scared off by a potential Aura Sphere as it doesn’t always OHKO with Dark Pulse, while Psychic can deal with Tentacruel if T-Spikes seem problematic. Tyranitar will survive any hit from Mewtwo and OHKO back with either Payback or Crunch, so be weary of that. Mewtwo has a good enough movepool to fit practically anything on it, so don’t be afraid to experiment.
  1. Shaymin-Sky
Scarf Anti-Lead – 252+ SpA / 252 Speed / Seed Flare / Leaf Storm, Air Slash, HP Ice, Earth Power / Healing Wish
This goal of this set is to take down the two most common leads in Darkrai and Deoxys without them getting a single move off 60% of the time. Relies quite a bit on luck. Leaf storm can OHKO Kyogre leads and 0 bulk TTar that isn’t running Sash. While it does force the opponents to reveal their scarfers earlier than usual, it’s STAB coverage is blindly walled by multiple Steels in the tier, with Grass being extremely easily resisted in a tier full of Dragon-types. Healing Wish is a situational move, don’t forget it comes after hazards in this gen! A Timid nature is preferred if you’re scared of Scarf Darkrai.
  1. Kyogre
2 Sets
  • Lum Para spreader – 144 HP / 252+ SpA / 112 Speed / Surf, Ice Beam, Thunder, Thunder Wave.
Establishes weather early on and beats Darkrai and Tyranitar by trading with Deoxys. Most consistent lead move vs. either Deoxys lead is Thunder, as it has the capacity to stop them from getting 2 layers up. Overall, be cautious of Spikes stacking when using this.

Note: thunder the deoxys over t-wave. 2HKO + 30% para over 25%
  • Modest Scarf – WaterSpout, Hydro Pump / Surf,Ice Beam, Thunder
Quite old, but gets the jump on people who don’t expect you to still be running this. Can OHKO non Sash leads, only being forced to switch-out of a Dialga lead. Misses important OHKOs and 2HKOs without the benefit of hazard damage but can still work.
  1. Giratina-Origin
Consistent Anti Lead and the best non hazard based one. Only problem is Gira does too much for teams sometimes (Consistent 50+ to Psychics) that you must be careful about taking damage.
EVs depend too much on the rest of the team, should at least be 112 to outspeed Tyranitar. A sample spread can be 192 Atk / 64 SpA / 252 Speed Naive.The only two constants are your STABs: Shadow Sneak, Draco Meteor / Dragon Claw
The other 2 moveslot can be:

  • HP Fire: Forretress / Scizor / Skarmory repellent, albeit Skarm shrugs it off if sun hasn’t been set-up.
  • Second Dragon move: In case you’re scared of Dracos missing or want to hit on both the Physical and the Special attacking spectrum. Outrage 2HKOs bulky Dialga
  • EQ: Jirachi + Heatran. gets the beat on Dialga, safe and consistent
  • Thunder: Kyogre + Efficient skarm removal. Works best on your own rain teams.
  • Will-o-Wisp: Best suited for the long game. wants to target Groudon / Support Dialga / TTar, but residual damage on anything is good
  • Thunder-Wave / Toxic: best for stall builds, helps incapacitate potential threats
  • Shadow Ball: Special Ghost move, doesn’t hit something in particular.
  1. Scizor
Anti-Dark lead – 252 HP / 40+ Atk / 216 SpD Lum Berry / U-Turn, Bullet Punch, Pursuit / Toxic, Roost
Yet another momentum-based lead not much unlike Mew, but with the added benefit of being able to beat Darkrai easily and trapping Froslass, in exchange for not providing hazard support nor control. Pursuit / Toxic is a toss up for what you want. You could run both over roost but you lose the ability to continually switch on Fire-less Dragons such as Latias. Fits great on some teams, but isn’t usually recommended.
  1. Ninjask
Baton Pass Lead – 216 Atk / 108 Def / 184+ Speed / Baton Pass, X-Scissor, Swords Dance, Substitute / Protect / Flash (Liechi Berry)
Ninjask does what it’s been doing since its release; passing Speed Boosts to Pokemon that are hard hitters. The crux of this set is being able to avoid dying to any one hit and then passing a Speed and possibly an Attack boost onto a powerful sweeper. X-Scissor beats Deoxys which is the only mon that is gonna Taunt you. Defense EVs mean you live the E-Speed from Ray and Deo-A with enough HP to make a Sub and pass successfully. The issue lies in the fact that anything on the opposing team that can phase you out will come in and foil your plans with the greatest of ease and of course multiple different Pokemon just straight up killing you, such as Tyranitar.
  1. Ho-Oh
Lead Rooster– 144 HP / 252+ Atk / 112 Speed / Sacred Fire, Brave Bird, Earthquake, Sleep Talk / Roost
Ho-Oh is quite possibly the most underrated anti-lead currently on the landscape. Its STAB combination is unparalleled, being able to hit everything that isn’t a Rock-Type. Sacred Fire’s high crit rate also provides a concise answer to Deoxys-Speed, no matter its set. Darkrai is also covered with a Lum Berry or Sleep Talk, freeing your team from the shackles of adding secondary sleep absorbers. Ho-Oh isn’t a typical lead as it can be used in the midgame as a breaker, too. The Speed guarantees you creep past max speed Tyranitar and blow it away with Earthquake.
 
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steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:groudon:Advance Generation:kyogre:

Generation 3 mechanics relevant to Ubers:

  • Struggle recoil 25 % of damage inflicted to opponent. Consequently: Lefties+Wobbuffet (Wynaut) is banned
  • Special or physical depends on type, not on the move itself
  • Difference in turn mechanics: sending out a Pokémon after one has fainted is done at the end of the turn opposed to the beginning of the next turn
  • Turns spent using Sleep Talk when sleeping will be reset upon switching out
  • KO by spikes or self-KO ends turn
  • Outrage has 90 base power
  • Encore lasts 2-6 turns
  • Taunt lasts for 2 turns
Every rank is sorted internally.

S Rank

:kyogre: Kyogre
:groudon: Groudon
:latios: Latios
:latias: Latias
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-A

A Rank

A+


:blissey: Blissey
:snorlax: Snorlax
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-D

A

:metagross: Metagross
:ho-oh: Ho-oh
:forretress: Forretress

A-

:magneton: Magneton
:heracross: Heracross
:lugia: Lugia
:jirachi: Jirachi
:skarmory: Skarmory

B Rank

B+


:steelix: Steelix
:omastar: Omastar
:umbreon: Umbreon
:mew: Mew
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:deoxys-speed: Deoxys-S
:dusclops: Dusclops
:dugtrio: Dugtrio

B

:exeggutor: Exeggutor
:celebi: Celebi
:qwilfish: Qwilfish
:kabutops: Kabutops
:salamence: Salamence
:slaking: Slaking

B-

:gengar: Gengar
:aerodactyl: Aerodactlyl
:ludicolo: Ludicolo
:shiftry: Shiftry
:shedinja: Shedinja
:regice: Regice
:regirock: Regirock
:registeel: Registeel
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:wobbuffet: Wobbuffet

C Rank

:flygon: Flygon
:ninjask: Ninjask
:jumpluff: Jumpluff
:raikou: Raikou

D Rank

:deoxys: Deoxys
:wynaut: Wynaut
Deoxys-D + Curselax | Provided by ZF
:deoxys-defense::latios::latias::metagross::magneton::snorlax:
Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Recover

Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Refresh
- Recover

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Claw
- Refresh
- Roar
- Recover

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 84 Def / 100 SpD / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Magneton @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave
- Metal Sound

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Rest


Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 168 HP / 176 Atk / 132 SpD / 32 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Thunder Wave
- Rock Slide

Lugia @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aeroblast
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SpA / 140 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Claw
- Refresh
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Protect

Magneton @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect
- Toxic

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes

This team utilizes Magneton's capabilities to trap Steel types, such Skarmory, Forretress and even Metagross/Steelix with proper timing, to wreak havoc with Choice Band Lugia and mono attacking Latias. These two in particular love the support Magneton provide. Forretress provides spikes to further weaken the opposition. It also appreciates the trapping of other Forretress in particular. The team utilizes Blissey as a check to BoltBeam Lati@s. With Wish, Lugia and Forretress can be recovered and utilize their bulk more liberally. Protect is a really strong move in ADV for a number of mons in general, it prevents prediction vs Deoxys-A and since this team can remove Toxic immunities, Toxic+Protect stalling can easily wear down opponents.


Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 156 HP / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Surf

Omastar @ Mystic Water
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 Def / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump

Regice @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 136 HP / 120 Atk / 252 SpA
Sassy Nature
- Psych Up
- Explosion
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Steelix @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Explosion

Deoxys-Attack @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Substitute
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

One of the first builds I prepared for UPL IV and the one I used for week 3 was a rain offense built around Substitute + Petaya Deoxys-A, one of the most potent threats in ADV that I felt wasn't fully developed. There aren't a huge number of Pokmeon that confidently check this set, although one that does is Shedinja, which I immediately rectified with a Spikes + Toxic Omastar as rain offenses can tend to struggle against Shedinja to begin with. The choice of Omastar as the Spikes setter was because nothing viable in ADV can afford to spin on it, while Omastar makes a good win condition in itself and alleviates potential weakness to opposing Deoxys-A. Mystic Water was chosen as the held item due to calculations against Pokemon such as Mewtwo and Lugia. This team heavily relies on rain support, so a more defensive Kyogre spread was chosen for longevity with Thunder to help check opposing Kyogre. CB Steelix functions as the Toxic immunity, Electric immunity, primary Normal-type resist, and primary Flying-type resist for the team. Regice was also chosen to offer defensive utility in being the primary Lati check and special sponge. The spread is designed to maximize special bulk without sacrificing the power of Ice Beam or Explosion, the later of which OHKOs standard Latios and nearly KOs Blissey. Overall the build is especially hostile to teams that lack strong counterplay to Thunder use and has several methods to dispose of standardized sun arrangements.


Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Roar

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Sacred Fire
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Explosion

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Refresh
- Dragon Claw

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Explosion
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Toxic

A standard bulky sun team. The sets are very flexible, Ho-oh can be a leftovers variant, Groudon could go with Thunder Wave+Swords Dance set, Blissey could go for Calm Mind etc. The variant provided for utilizes Regirocks massive bulk to switch into flying moves but the last slot can be changed to Deoxys-A or even Kyogre. The team plays off wearing opposing teams down via Toxic, Spikes and attacks from Ho-oh, while keeping itself healthy utilizing Heal Bell support provided by Blissey. Once sufficiently weakened, opposing teams could be cleaned up by Latias
Lati Check



Kyogre Check



Groudon Check



Deo-A Check



Snorlax Check



Flying Resist



Thunder "Resist"



Spikes



Rapid Spin



Trapping



CB or Mixed Breaker



Cleric, Wish, Screens

Mini-analyses thread by Shrang
 
Last edited:

steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:ho-oh:Gold, Silver, and Crystal:lugia:

Generation 2 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • No abilities or natures
  • 252 EVs in all 6 stats
  • IVs are replaced with DVs - 0-15 instead of the usual 0-31
  • Sleep lasts 2-7 turns
  • No more than 1 layer of Spikes is possible
  • Provided the user is not at full health, Sleep Talk can pick the move Rest and succeed, healing the user and resetting sleep turns
  • Toxic reverts to normal poison upon switch-out
  • Toxic and Leech Seed damage applies after the use of a move, not on a switch
  • Belly Drum glitch: when below 50 % health the user is granted +2 Attack without any HP being deducted
  • There is a 1/256 chance that 100% secondary effects of attacking moves such as Thief or Dynamic Punch will not have their secondary effect applied.
  • Pokemon now have a 10% chance to thaw from frozen status.
  • Shiny Pokemon are not recommended as Shiny Pokemon are determined by DV Values and lead to to using sub-optimal DVs.
S Rank:

S


Snorlax
Mew
Mewtwo

A Rank:

A+


Lugia
Zapdos

A

Steelix
Forretress

A-

Celebi
Raikou
Tyranitar
Ho-Oh
Cloyster

B Rank

B


Skarmory
Umbreon
Jolteon
Golem
Rhydon
Blissey

B-

Misdreavus
Gengar
Heracross
Marowak

C Rank

Vaporeon
Miltank
Starmie
Smeargle
Muk
Exeggutor
Boom Offense | Created by Zf
:snorlax::zapdos::forretress::mew::mewtwo::golem:
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Double-Edge
- Lovely Kiss
- Curse
- Rest

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: none
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 24 Def
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
- Swords Dance

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Submission
- Self-Destruct

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: none
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
- Roar
 
Last edited:

steelskitty

jackie#2196
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
:mew:Red, Blue and Yellow:mewtwo:

Generation 1 mechanics relevant to Ubers:
  • There is a 1/256 chance for 100% accuracy moves to miss.
  • Recovery moves also fail if a Pokemon's HP Is 255 or 511 points below their Max HP. Example: Chansey at 192 HP is unable to successfully use Softboiled.
  • Critical Hit chance is determined by the Pokemon's speed i.e A base 130 speed Pokemon such as Mewtwo or Jolteon has a 25% chance to land a critical hit. (Base speed/512)
  • Pokemon that are asleep do not move on the turn they wake up.
  • Pokemon that are frozen do not thaw by themselves (only via being hit by a Fire move that can cause a burn, or Haze), due to this there is a freeze clause.
  • Boosting moves such as Agility can eliminate the loss of speed caused by paralysis if the user is already paralyzed.
  • Hyper Beam does not have a recharge turn if it KOs the defending Pokemon. A Pokemon who has used Hyper Beam and requires recharging can have their status effect overwritten. For example: A paralyzed Tauros uses Hyper Beam, has to recharge, and then can be put to sleep by an Exeggutor with Sleep Powder, despite already being Paralyzed.
  • Substitute does not block sleep and paralysis. On the turn a Substitute is broken (ie by Body Slam), the Pokemon that was behind the Substitute cannot be hit with a status effect resultant from the move that broke the Substitute.
  • Counter can only counter Normal or Fighting type moves specifically. Counter can also counter back damage from previous turns provided the opponent's Pokemon does not move — i.e full paralysis or on switching out. Counter fails if the opponent's last-selected move was not Normal or Fighting-type. If it was, however, a Pokemon can Counter its own damage. For instance, an opposing Tauros Hyper Beams your Chansey and you use Thunderbolt. The Tauros recharges and you use Counter. You will do twice as much damage as you did with Thunderbolt. Some non-damaging moves reset this damage count, making Counter fail. A list of these can be found here: https://www.smogon.com/dex/rb/moves/counter/.
  • Reflect and Light Screen affect the user only, doubling their defensive stats, and are permanent until the user switches out. Critical hits still ignore them and Haze removes them.
  • Rest does not eliminate the stat drops caused by Status effects until the Pokemon switches out.
  • Multi-hit moves such as Double Kick always do the same amount of damage based on the first hit, also if the first hit criticals all the multi-hits will also land a critical.
  • Explosion and Self-Destruct do not cause the user to faint if they KO the target's Substitute.
  • Hyper Beam does not force a recharge if it KOs the target's Substitute.
  • Damaging moves with secondary status effects cannot apply those status effects to Pokemon who share the same type of the damaging move. For instance: Body Slam cannot paralyze Normal-types, Thunderbolt and Thunder cannot paralyze Electric-types (Thunder Wave, however, can), Sludge cannot poison Poison-types, and so on.
  • Paralysis and Burn have their stat multiplier reapplied if the opponent boosts or if their own stats are dropped in any way — for instance, a Slowbro using Amnesia against a Paralyzed Mewtwo will quarter Mewtwo's speed again on top of the original quartering from Paralysis. This can happen until the stat cap stops your Pokemon from boosting or +6/-6 is reached. These changes are not saved when the affected Pokemon switches out.
  • Other Move differences: Blizzard has an accuracy of 90%, Fire Blast has a 30% chance to burn, Thunder has a 10% chance to paralyze, Psychic has a 33% chance to drop the opponents Special Stat, Explosion is 170 base power and Self-Destruct is 130, Night Shade and Seismic Toss can hit any Pokemon regardless of typing.
  • Type differences: Fire does not resist Ice, Poison is super effective against Bug, Bug is also super-effective against poison, due to a bug Psychic Types are immune to Ghost-Type attacks such as Lick.
S Rank:

S+

Mewtwo


S-
Mew

A Rank:

A+

Chansey
Snorlax

A
Exeggutor
Tauros
Slowbro
Zapdos

A-
Jynx
Gengar
Rhydon

B Rank:

B

Starmie
Alakazam
Golem

Subject to changes depending on thread discussion, consider this an initial draft.
Jynx Lead + Triple Psychic Offense | Provided by Mr.378
:jynx::chansey::snorlax::slowbro::mew::mewtwo:

Jynx
- Blizzard
- Seismic Toss
- Rest
- Lovely Kiss

Chansey
- Ice Beam
- Light Screen
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave

Snorlax
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Hyper Beam
- Self-Destruct

Slowbro
- Surf
- Thunder Wave
- Amnesia
- Rest

Mew
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Swords Dance

Mewtwo
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Amnesia
- Recover
 
Last edited:

Cynara

It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down
is a Tutoris a Community Contributor
In the last Ubers Old Gens Hub thread, you made a to-do list of resource improvements including updating RSE & DPP VR and general ORAS content. Are you continuing with that or are you content with the resources for now?
That list was pretty much done, I just didnt edit / cross off what i did on the list, but the plan is to have things ever expanding. Discussion from other players is very appreciated Too. I hope to see more dpp / adv discussions this time around and I'll be expanding the USM Section soon, just waiting on gen 8 mechanics to be finalised.
 
Last edited:

absdaddy

Banned deucer.
dpp palkia should drop a rank. It's outclassed as a kyogre check by Latias and as a scarfer by literally every other scarfer - slower than chomp, susceptible to all hazards especially tspikes which are the big bad in the meta right now (pressure tspikes bulky offense) which means it has very little longevity for a kyogre check / revenge killer.
Compared to other Pokémon currently in S, it doesn't bring nowhere near the utility these other mons do and many successful teams have dropped it and for a good reason. grounded + no recovery = Not S (please don't bring up restalk bu, this aint xy)
whether ranks are ordered or not, top of A+ is fine for it

drop gliscor, it died with iris. no way it should be higher than tenta kingdra or froslass. speaking of tenta, peep the usage and winrates for the pressure tspikes teams. tenta is a key player on these, beats darkrai and many other leads and for that i think it should get a bump to a-
 

WreckDra

Inspirited
is a Contributor Alumnus
I would like to suggest moving Metagross and Deoxys-D into A- above Ray and potentially Jirachi.
Metagross's ability to make weather setters come in on Spikes and a Mash is amazing and its Rock Slide is actually strong enough to threaten Ho-Oh unlike other Steels. It does bring in the Spikes setting Steels as well but this does present the opportunity to limit them to 1 or 0 Spikes for the rest of the game if Metagross's trainer is comfortable blowing it up early (<3 gen 3 KO mechanics), this will likely give an opening to some strong physical teammate on Metagross's team as well (Deo-A, Lugia, Snorlax, Kabutops, Heracross, Ray).

Deoxys-D is a very reliable Spikes user and one of two that can viably heal without Rest. It is a staple on a popular stall team and a couple offense teams that involve Gengar. I don't think I need to explain how hard this is to take down sometimes while getting up Spikes, sometimes poisoning everything that can be poisoned, Pressure stalling others, or throwing up Spikes in most cases. I value its reliable Spikes, ability to fit on a couple of teams at least, the fast Deo-D's trait of never being KOed by passive damage alone, and the fully defensive Deo-D's habit of just not being broken by special attacks before its attacker is taken down by poison or runs out of attacks to hit it with. This should put it above Ray and Jirachi, though Jirachi's Wish along with its small but relevant offensive potential is hard to pinpoint on the VR.

I can go on about why Jirachi, Ray, and Regice should be ranked below these two, but I think it should be pretty self-explanatory. Skarmory could move up a little (above Regice), but I am not sold on this idea (Magneton complications / Fire coverage on Snorlax / other complications).


Here is a Meta mini analysis:
Roles:
- Turns common special tanks like Blissey, Snorlax, Deo-D etc into an opportunity for very real damage. It is a strong offense enabler.
- It also does this to CB locked Normal- and Flying-type attacks.
- It tends to bring in Kyogre, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Forretress, and the rarer Skarmory. This can be abused with switching, Explosion, Spikes, and coverage move antics.
- being able to threaten Rock-Types is a nice bonus, even if switching into them isn't ideal.
Metagross @ Leftovers / Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Toxic

Notes:
- Meteor Mash and Earthquake have strong neutral coverage
- Explosion will KO or cripple everything but Gengar and Dusclops. Booming on slower targets also takes away their move for the turn (useful against Spikes users in some scenarios).
- I recommend running a little more Speed out of HP for other Metagross and Skarmory
- Last move can be many things:
- Rock Slide gives Metagross a coverage weapon against Ho-Oh who will likely outlast Metagross and always threaten it so long as it live​
- Toxic makes sure Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Groudon take damage whenever they are in.​
- Pursuit will KO Deoxys-A if it attempts to switch, but it will only do 83% max if Deoxys stays in.​
- With a Naughty or Brave nature, Hidden Power Fire in Groudon's sun will take a large chunk out of Skarmory and OHKO Forretress.​
Checks and Counters:
- Kyogre
- Groudon
- Ho-Oh
- Skarmory / Forretress (Meta HATES Spikes damage)
- Dugtrio if a hit has been taken (or enough Spikes damage accumulated)
- Other faster Pokemon with SE coverage
- Will-O-Wisp from Dusclops (and its Explosion immunity)
 
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once again suggesting moving Manaphy up in BW2, and not just because it's my username :pimp: To put it in C- tier with literal trash like Arceus-Ice and Jynx is underrating the mon quite a bit, it's a great stallbreaker with tail glow and as a sweeper being immune to status and resting off things in rain is great. wacan berry or calm mind prevents it from being revenge killed by common scarf mons, groudon and tyranitar have to try to play mindgames to change the weather on your since you can smack them anytime with supereffective coverage. Additionally things that run Grass Knot like Lati@s or arceus forms will get memed hard by Manaphy since he's so lightweight. You can straight up beat Ferrothorn by fishing for burns or just straight powering through after a tail glow if you have some prior damage up, opening up stall teams that rely on status or hazards to beat down offensive threats with it's immunity to status and free rests. it's not a perfect mon especially since you can't run ice beam and grass knot at the same time but rain and tail glow boosted attacks deal hard damage to most things anyway. Getting +6 isn't even that hard considering how much you can heal with rest.
I honestly think it's good enough for at least B- if not higher but if other people disagree thats fine, C- is completely ridiculous though.
 
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As I said in the old thread, the ADV rankings need an update; they should look close to this imo
S
Kyogre
Groudon
Latios
Latias

S-
Deoxys-A

A+
Mewtwo
Snorlax
Blissey
Ho-oh

A
Deoxys-D
Metagross
Lugia

A-
Magneton
Forretress
Skarmory
Jirachi
Heracross

B+
Deoxys-S
Omastar
Umbreon
Steelix
Gengar
Mew

B
Regirock
Aerodactyl
Dugtrio
Qwilfish
Rayquaza

B-
Exeggutor
Ludicolo
Shiftry
Tyranitar
Registeel
Shedinja
Regirock
Wobbuffet

C
Everything else


Abs and I both commented in the old thread that the sample teams need work in gens 3-5. Read about it here

The DPP rankings also need an update. Here's my personal list:
S
Dialga
Kyogre
Giratina-O
Darkrai
Deoxys-S

A+
Groudon
Latias
Latios
Garchomp
Palkia
Mewtwo
Rayquaza

A
Jirachi
Tyranitar
Giratina-A
Lugia
Kingdra
Heatran
Skarmory
Bronzong

A-
Deoxys-A
Tentacruel
Forretress
Lucario
Blissey
Manaphy

B+
Shaymin-Sky
Ho-oh
Wobbuffet
Magnezone

B
Ludicolo
Scizor
Mew
Kabutops
Froslass


PM me on discord if you want some help with this Cynara
 

Cynara

It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down
is a Tutoris a Community Contributor
As I said in the old thread, the ADV rankings need an update; they should look close to this imo
S
Kyogre
Groudon
Latios
Latias

S-
Deoxys-A

A+
Mewtwo
Snorlax
Blissey
Ho-oh

A
Deoxys-D
Metagross
Lugia

A-
Magneton
Forretress
Skarmory
Jirachi
Heracross

B+
Deoxys-S
Omastar
Umbreon
Steelix
Gengar
Mew

B
Regirock
Aerodactyl
Dugtrio
Qwilfish
Rayquaza

B-
Exeggutor
Ludicolo
Shiftry
Tyranitar
Registeel
Shedinja
Regirock
Wobbuffet

C
Everything else


Abs and I both commented in the old thread that the sample teams need work in gens 3-5. Read about it here

The DPP rankings also need an update. Here's my personal list:
S
Dialga
Kyogre
Giratina-O
Darkrai
Deoxys-S

A+
Groudon
Latias
Latios
Garchomp
Palkia
Mewtwo
Rayquaza

A
Jirachi
Tyranitar
Giratina-A
Lugia
Kingdra
Heatran
Skarmory
Bronzong

A-
Deoxys-A
Tentacruel
Forretress
Lucario
Blissey
Manaphy

B+
Shaymin-Sky
Ho-oh
Wobbuffet
Magnezone

B
Ludicolo
Scizor
Mew
Kabutops
Froslass


PM me on discord if you want some help with this Cynara
Thank you for this very useful post, sorry there hasn't been much public update from me. but we will get your vr update lists discussed. There is now a Old Gens Hub projects team and a discord role for contribution and discussion. I just wanted to make a post that this is a thing now, anyone who wants to help contribute is more than welcome to send me/nayrz/dream a PM of general interest either on Smogon or in the Ubers Discord for the discord for the live discussion for Old gens contributors.

Anyways to discuss your post.

Palkia lowering to A+ has already happened because we dont believe it lives up to being a S rank Pokemon in DPP Ubers anymore. Bronzong raise was brought up and will probably occur.

I will add your dpp stall team to samples because I think it is a good representation of stalls in DPP. A T-spikes team is something im working on: https://pokepast.es/1f41f245bc658e25 - here is a rough draft of something I have so far, please let me know what you think. Its for a sample so its very bog standard, but I would prefer a second opinion since DPP isnt my strong suit.

As for ADV this really VR needs to be discussed and expect an update on it shortly.

Of course if you want to pm me personally, you are free to do so, my discord is Sarah#2355, feel free to send me a friend request
 

Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnus
Moderator
Would update ADV VR to this:
S
Kyogre
Groudon
Latios
Latias

A+
Snorlax
Deoxys-A
Mewtwo
Blissey

A
Ho-oh
Metagross
Deoxys-D
Forretress

A-
Magneton
Lugia
Skarmory
Jirachi

B+
Deoxys-S
Heracross
Omastar
Rayquaza
Umbreon

B
Gengar
Celebi
Steelix
Regice
Regirock
Aerodactyl
Mew
Dugtrio

B-
Kabutops
Qwilfish
Exeggutor
Ludicolo
Salamence
Tyranitar
Registeel
Swampert
Shedinja
Wobbuffet

C
Shiftry
Jumpluff
Zapdos
Raikou
Flygon
Lanturn
Ninjask

D
Deoxys
Wynaut

There should be one S tier, there is no ORAS P Don / RBY Mewtwo dichotomy in the premier ADV viability. Ogre / Don / Lati are the epitome of ADV. Almost every team should be using at least two of these Pokemon.

A+ is for Pokemon that are the best at their respective roles. Snorlax is the best BO mon ignoring S Rank and Curselax is one of the top threats of the tier. Deoxys-A is the best pure offense threat. Mewtwo is the best mixed attacker and lead. Blissey is the best wall and defensive support mon.

Ho-Oh is a premier sun Pokemon, and can work on dual weather / rain as well, but it just doesn't excel at a singular level enough to warrant A+ placement like the others. Metagross is the premier Steel-type and is able to function on many styles of teams. Spikes is extremely important for ADV sequences and breaking weathermons / beatstick checks, making Deoxys-D and Forretress very important.

Magneton, Lugia, Skarmory, and Jirachi are all important Pokemon for certain types of archetypes. They are not as pervasive or influential in team structures as the A rank Pokemon, but they have enough utility to place them above B ranked mons.

B+ Pokemon have specific, limited roles, but they are effective at executing them. Heracross and Omastar are good cleaners with limited defensive utility. Deo-S is a more specialized Deo-D. Rayquaza stops weather sweepers + one of the few mons with priority. Umbreon has meanpassing.

Pokemon like Gengar, Steelix, Regice, Regirock, and Celebi are similarly specialized, but aren't quite as potent or unique as the Pokemon above them.

B- is essentially everything else I'd consider using on a serious team. They have many limitations, but they have some important and unique quirk that justifies their usage.

C rank are basically things that were on VR before.

D rank are unviable, but are Uber by tiering.


For ADV samples, in addition to a rain offense and a sun balance / stall, I'd recommend a dual weather offense, a Deoxys-D team, a Heracross team, a rain stall, and at least one team with a Curselax. I think these seven or less teams offer a strong and relevant spectrum for new players to try out.
 

WreckDra

Inspirited
is a Contributor Alumnus
Xerneas can't use hidden power rock :[
View attachment 212941
There is more than one way to obtain HP rock, but the default that showdown gives you is illegal. This is the only one that works for gen 6 legends iirc:
31 HP / 31 Atk / 30 Def / 31 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
Showdown brings the attack IV down to 1 because of the rather silly auto IV thing (attack IV needs to be an odd number for HP rock) whenever you don't have a physical attack on your set. It has to be 31 in order to be legal on Xerneas and must be put in manually.
 

Exiline

the flyest
is a Tiering Contributoris a former Tournament Circuit Champion
Use zf's VR for ADV

I would however add some changes:
- Deoxys-Speed in A-
- Dusclops in B
- Forretress in A
- Lugia in A-

Dusclops is incredible when used in Sun stalls, the most dominant archetype in the tier along lead m2 offense, it can absorb M2, being immune to normal attacks is amazing for rapid spin blocking/explosion/snorlax and is also able to pursuit trap deo-a while crippling a lot of shit with WoW and abusing pressure.
Rest is easy to understand, i'll write explanations if asked ig.
 
Minor points but still relevant- was it gen 5 that Sturdy was buffed to function like a Focus Sash? I feel that for g5 at the least that's significant due to Custap Forre/Skarm being relevant.

Also the DPP section mentions Ghost types being affected by STag implying that in g5 they can't be trapped, but I thought it was g6 or so that they were buffed to be immune to trapping? Idk, maybe misremembering things
 

Cynara

It all comes tumbling down, tumbling down
is a Tutoris a Community Contributor
Just a thread update post.

ADV VR Changes

Based on everything users have proposed for ADV Viability rankings such as the preliminary lists from Zf & Minority, Nominations raised by Wreckdra and Exiline, and all points raised in the old generations contributors channel I have reorganised ADV VR on what the majority have agreed on. For Pokemon where discussion is lacking, I averaged the rankings proposed by Exiline, Minority and Zf posted on this thread to determine a position, this was usually minor changes such as positioning in the S-A- Subranks, Furthermore, to follow the idea of Standardisation between our Viability Rankings, Pokemon under A- are no longer ordered by viability, but simply listed Alphabetically.

Here are the list of the significant changes:

:deoxys-attack: -> Top of A+
:Metagross: -> A
:deoxys-defense: -> A
:deoxys-speed: -> A-
:lugia: -> A-
:heracross: -> B+
:rayquaza: -> B+
:regice: -> B
:mew: -> B

New Pokemon Introduced

:Celebi: -> B
:dugtrio: -> B
:dusclops: -> B

Slaking has been placed in C, I am unsure where this was wanted, Zf did not rank his C rank Pokemon, so it is unclear whether this Pokemon should be ranked or not, as he suggests C rank should be for everything else that is ranked so I have put it in C rank for now as it was previously deemed viable, please let me know if this has been interpreted incorrectly.


DPP Changes


Due to the tiering decision to allow Arceus. DPP Resources including Sample teams and Viability Rankings are now all outdated. I have now put all the old DPP Resources into a hide tag and shelved them for users that may still wish to access them and so they are not lost. The Priority is to introduce Sample teams that reflect the metagame with Arceus in order to introduce the format to users and increase activity of DPP Ubers. I am now accepting Sample Team submissions on this thread. A initial viability list will be discussed in the near future; after the conclusion of a Circuit Tournament featuring DPP Ubers or possibily sooner, if there is enough discussion.


Other points of discussion:

- Changes to BW2 Viability rankings, BW2 Ubers VR has not received an update in a good while. Do people agree with the current VR of BW2 Ubers? If you want to propose any updates / changes please bring them up in this thread.
- ORAS VR and additional resources
- Potential Post Most Wanted USM VR Update.

If theres anything else not on my list, that you wish to contribute and/or discuss please happily bring them up in this thread.
 
I looked over the BW VR, and here is my opinion, I made it much less top heavy, so B-rank and up is actually good mons. I have not ranked within the tiers. I Made some comments on a couple interesting mons.

S: The absolute elite, you need a really good reason to not use this mon. And still, you should probably reconsider your decision

A: Really good mons, are all really scary that you have to have in mind when building a team

B: Still good, no one should question that you are trying your best to win

C: Starting to get a bit sketchy, you will still not get any points for memeing, your team will look serious. But let’s be real, your team will probably not be able to compete with the best archetypes

D: Not complete garbage, can work a small niche


S
Genesect (S) – The best mon in the tier, and it’s not even close. Even tho its always scarf and everyone expects it, it will do its job. I would rather run dual-scarf than not using Genesect at all. Is good on HO/Balance/Stall

A+
Kyogre (S)
Arceus – Ghost (S)

A
Arceus – Fighting (A+)
Groudon (A+)
Latias (A)
Latios (A+)
Rayquaza (A-) – Underrated on previous VR, has no good answers outside of Arceus. Stops weather-sweepers. Priority is always nice in the lead matchup. Can run multiple sets
Dialga (S) – I usually don’t find the place for it on my teams but I guess its ok

A-
Deoxys – S (A)
Deoxys – A (A)
Arceus – Normal (A+) – The best Arceus types being fighting and ghost really hurts it. Scarf Palkia is not a thing anymore, Latios always have roar so set up is not as easy as it was in the old days. Still good tho, can run sets like recover with some success
Darkrai (A+)
Giratina – O (A+)
Ferrothorn (A)

B+
Ho-Oh (A-)
Tyranitar (A-)
Excadrill (A-)

B
Tentacruel (B+)
Arceus-Steel (A)
Espeon (B-)
Cloyster (B)
Forretress (B+)
Kabutops (A-)
Arceus – Water (B+)
Palkia (A) – Just looking at the stats from the latest UPLs shows that it’s hard to fit on a team. Still a very big threat with Specs/Lustrus. And scarf might actually not be that bad, is faster than Genesect after all

B-
Accelgor (Unranked) – Good matchup vs suicide spikers + Darkrai
Frosslas (B+) – A suicide spiker that looses to Darkrai, but people seems to like it
Omastar (B)
Tornadus-T (B-)
Skarmory (B+)
Heatran (B+)
Gliscor (B+)
Jirachi (B)
Giratina – A (B-)
Arceus – Grass (B+)
Arceus – Ground (B)
Lugia (B-)
Manaphy (C-) – Actually good, used it with success in last UPL, but needs quite a lot of support

C
Zekrom (B+)
Shaymin – Sky (B)
Mewtwo (B)
Terrakion (B)
Landorus-T (B)
Garchomp (B-)
Ludicolo (B-)
Gastrodon (C+)
Sableye (C+)
Smeargle (C-)
Shiftry (C+)
Blissey (C)
Chansey (C)
Hippowdon (B-)
Arceus – Dragon (C+)
Arceus – Ground (B)
Arceus – Rock (B)
Arceus – Electric (B)
Arceus – Dark (B)

D
Salamence (C+)
Reshiram (C+)
Tornadus (C+)
Abomasnow (C+)
Cresselia (C)
Arceus – Flying (C)
Arceus – Poison (C)
Jumpluff (D)
Whimsicot (D)
Magnezone (C)
Thunderus (C+)
Deoxys-D (B-)
Kyurem-W (B-)
Xatu (C+)
Wobbuffet (B-)
Kingdra (B-)
Blaziken (B-)
Arceus – Psychic (C+)
Arceus – Flying (C)
Arceus – Poison (C)

Unranked (moved from ranked)
Venusaur
Thunderus – T
Deoxys
Bisharp
Jynx
Gorebyss
Arceus – Ice
Arceus – Fire
Mamoswine
Scizor
Bronzong
Kyurem-B
Victini
Qwilfish
Arceus – Ice
Arceus – Fire
Arceus – Bug
 

Just dropping thoughts about Farceus and a preliminary VR I made.

Arceus- I think the best Farceus is just its regular form. Just SD/Espeed/EQ/Sclaw with Silk Scarf will get opportunities to win late game when everything is chipped versus any team that lacks Skarm, and Thunder/Overheat will end up frying Skarm anyway. Power Herb Shadow Force will work to secure KOs on Gira-O before it throws out Wisp, and Recover sets deal with Scarf Dialga and no status Gira-O. However, no EQ means Rachi and bulkier Dialgas end up winning.

Arceus-Steel- The frontrunner coming into Farceus meta, but I feel like it has a lot of flaws after testing. A lot of people were hyping up the Roar set, but mono steel coverage is shit, and after Steelceus gets paralyzed by a stray Thunder/Twave from Latios/Latias/Ogre/Dialga/Palkia/Rachi/Blissey/Groudon, it get phased back anyway. I think coverage like Earth power/Thunder are more consistent sets, and a Wisp set might be worth considering to punish switch-ins like Ogre/Dialga/Spdef Groudon/Fightceus.

Arceus-Fighting- Fightceus would have been pretty fucking strong if Tspikes didn’t exist. Immediately cutting through Dialga/Steelceus is nothing to scoff at and not much uses psychic/flying coverage in Ubers. Unfortunately, there is no room to run Thunder so CM Ogre will eventually win and Twave is still a threat. It also falls pretty hard to Stalltwo.

Arceus-Ghost- This is another form that people thought was gonna be pretty ridiculous, but it just gets revenged by Darkrai and checked by Ogre. The SD set is really inconsistent, and Tspikes/Toxic still limits setup. Frankly, I think Gira-O ends up being a better spin blocker too, but Ghostceus does have some merit in being a CM Arceus that brute forces through Latias/Latios/Stalltwo and often forces opponent to trade their Bronzong/Dialga.

The lesser Arcs

Arceus-Dark-
Basically CM Ghostceus that can’t spin block…. It’s better at stall breaking though.

Arceus-Electric- Scaring off Ogre with stab Thunder is something I guess, but it’s weather reliant and still loses to Dialga, Spdef Don, Chomp and Toxic/Tspikes.

Arceus-Grass- It checks Ogre and Don in one mon and that’s about it.

Arceus-Ground- Pretty much a worse Ekiller other than being able beat Dialga more reliably; the water weakness really sucks and it can’t even beat Latias/Latios.

Arceus-Dragon- Not so sure about this one still; I think mono Sub/Refresh CM sets could have some merit in breaking cores especially because of the water resist, but Scarf Dialga, Chomp, Latios revenge kill for free.

Other forms- Maybe they’re good; I'm not sure, but so far at least they aren't very promising. Waterceus/Flyceus are invalidated by Thunder weakness, there are more versatile Tspike absorbers than Poisonceus, Fireceus/Iceceus/Bugceus die to rocks, Psychiceus isn't good defensively or offensively, and Rockceus struggles with Don/Ogre.

Fast mons like Kabu/Latios/Latias/Darkrai/Mewtwo are consistent in revenging Arceus (except Ekiller) and spreading status really hinders its ability to sweep. I'm also thinking a lot of mons can run new sets that were previously unheard of. Stuff like Darkrai could run Chilan Berry for Ekiller, Lucario could try an Agility set, and I'm also liking Spdef Bulk Up EQ Thunder Dialga a lot to handle Steelceus rain teams.

I also tested this to some extent by winning the recent Farceus tour without using Farceus at all by focusing on spamming Twave and Toxic.
 
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Would a utility set not work for Watceus in sun? With sun support I would say its electric weakness wouldn't be as bad

My experience in this tour was that CM sets were really strong- I think I exclusively ran CM Ghostceus and CM Fightceus and a lot of my wins came down to them, but I never felt opposing CM Arcs were unstoppable except for one match where I forgot to run anything to handle CMFB Grassceus. That said, I largely agree that the checks for CM Arc are there. Status is good, and it's not as though they can't be played around
 

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