Resource Ubers Teambuilding Compendium (Now with USM)

Minority

Numquam Vincar
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#1

(Thread Approved by Ubers Moderators)


The purpose of this thread is to serve as a visual guide for the various key roles that Pokemon perform. When first drafting teams together it is useful to have all potential candidates for a particular role laid out so that things aren't overlooked and alternatives can be quickly considered. Please suggest additions, removals, or new categories to be added, all of which will be kept track of in the edits log as the tier continues to develop. Arceus are listed first for simplicity purposes, neigh unviable Pokemon are not listed, and the number of categories is limited to essential / highly useful techs.


Primal Groudon Checks



Necrozma-DM Checks



Xerneas Checks



Mega Salamence Checks



Swords Dance Arceus Checks



Ho-Oh Checks



Primal Kyogre Checks



Dark-Type Resists



Ghost-Type Resists



Ground Immunities



Stealth Rock Setters



Spikes | Toxic Spikes



Anti-Hazard Support



Priority



Clerics



12/8/16: Tapu Koko removed from Primal Kyogre checks
12/8/16: Deoxys-A added to SR setters
12/10/16: Lunala added to EKiller checks
12/10/16: Toxapex added to Xerneas checks
12/10/16: Giratina-O added to Mega Salamence checks
12/20/16: Nihilego added to Spikes | Toxic Spikes
12/28/16: Nihilego Removed
1/2/17: Mega Scizor added to Priority
1/6/17: Skarmory added to Mega Salamence checks
1/10/17: Whimsicott removed from Dark Resists
1/17/17: Alolan Muk added to Ghost and Dark Resists
1/17/17: Clefable added to EKiller checks
1/17/17: Dugtrio added to SR setters
1/17/17: Buzzwole added to EKiller checks
1/17/17: Landorus added to Ground Immunities
1/17/17: Chansey added to Xerneas checks, Ghost Resists, Primal Kyogre checks
2/5/17: Arceus-Dark and Arceus-Ground added to Anti-Hazard support
2/5/17: Bronzong and Landorus-T added to SR setters
2/5/17: Buzzwole added to Dark-type resists
2/15/17: Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Fairy added to SR setters
2/27/17: Mega Metagross added to sections
5/23/17: Ferrothorn added to Xerneas checks
7/14/17: Marshadow added to sections
10/1/17: Mega Salamence added to Anti-hazard support
10/1/17: Mega Diancie added to sections
10/1/17: Chansey and Blissey added to SR setters
10/1/17: Arceus-Flying added to Ground immunities
10/15/17: Mega Latias added to sections
1/1/18: Necrozma-DM Checks Section Created
1/1/18: Necrozma-DM added to sections
1/1/18: Anti-hazard updated to USM
1/2/18: Clerics Section Created
1/2/18: Mega Diancie added to Ho-Oh checks and SR setters
1/18/18: Necrozma-DM added to Necrozma-DM checks
1/18/18: Mega Scizor added to Anti-hazard support
 
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#4
few additions/removals i think should be made:
  • mmence added to anti-hazard support
  • buzzwole and rockceus added to ekiller checks
  • lando-t added to stealth rock setters
  • scolipede added to spikes and toxic spikes setters
  • alolan muk and toxapex added to xerneas checks
  • gira-o added to mence checks
  • greninja removed from priority, only the lead set (which is less viable b/c battle bond) carries shadow sneak which is way too weak to dent anything other than deo-a
  • scizor removed from ekiller checks, +2 lo eq from jolly ekiller easily 2hkos
@below: i agree gira-o isn't a solid mence check but neither is ogre, which takes even more from +1 edge
 
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Aberforth

Californium is PoMMan now.
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#5
Not that it shouldn't be removed but...

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor-Mega: 220-259 (64.1 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

What Scizor are you using? That's Adamant and max roll isn't even what you said min roll is.

Also RE: Gira-O being a Mence check.

+1 252+ Atk Sky Plate Salamence-Mega Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 248 Def Giratina-Origin: 331-391 (75 - 88.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 

Lacus Ichinose

Eau De Toilette™
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#7
Remove Tapu Kaku from Dark-Type resist. A Pokémon that gets 2HKO from any dark type attack shouldn't be there.
Remove Zekrom from Primal Kyogre checks.
Remove Mega Kangaskhan. It's bad now.
Add Toxapex to Xerneas checks.
 
#8
Remove Tapu Kaku from Dark-Type resist. A Pokémon that gets 2HKO from any dark type attack shouldn't be there.
Remove Zekrom from Primal Kyogre checks.
Remove Mega Kangaskhan. It's bad now.
Add Toxapex to Xerneas checks.
Why?

252+ Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Kyogre: 402-474 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Granted, Zekrom's no switchin, but it just straight up mauls any form of Kyogre, and the above calc isn't even using a boosting item vs defensive ogre.
 
#11
Did you even read the article you linked, specifically the "checks" section? A check to something doesn't have to be a hard switchin to another mon, but it has to have some way of dispatching the mon it's supposed to check. From full, un-boosted Pogre's Ice Beam doesn't even kill Zekrom, but it still does a lot to it hence why Zekrom isn't a switchin. However, even Scarf Zekrom can OHKO defensive Pogre over 90% of the time, and it's guaranteed after rocks.

Zekrom is a Pogre check, end of story.
 
#15
Does Pheromosa really count as a dark resist when it's defenses are comparable to Deo-A's?
Idk why Kyogre is in Mence checks since it gets OHKO'd by Dedge after rocks if it's NOT physdef, and dies at +1 after rocks if it IS physdef
People will probably disagree with me, but I think Xurkitree and Kartana can be placed in certain places in the compendium. Both can be under Primal Kyogre checks, and Kartana under Ekiller checks.

Also I gave slurmz the zyg sprite so y'all can thank me for that :p
 
#16
Can we add Lunala as an Ekiller check? Scarf Lunala can out speed and 2HKO Arceus with Focus Blast. It also lives a Shadow Claw at +2 if Shadow Shield is up and does not care about espeed.
I do not mean to single you out by posting this message, but I'd like to point out (to many people actually, since this concept is not very widely understood for some reasons) that being able to knock out something with two Focus Blast hits hardly qualifies as checking it.

0.7 x 0.7 = 0.49

Also, since we are on the topic of Extreme Killer Arceus checks, I'd personally disregard all of the following as such:

1. Anything that depends on Intimidate.
2. Anything that depends on Focus Blast.
3. Anything that depends on Will-O-Wisp (due to the possibility of Lum Berry in combination with the fact that this move's accuracy is still shaky).
4. Anything that depends on Destiny Bond (it cannot be used consecutively anymore).
5. Anything that depends on both of the following conditions being met: 1. Not suffering a critical hit from a +2 Shadow Claw, and 2. Not missing with Dragon Tail or Draco Meteor.

Do not think of Pokémon in terms of a single battle. Try to picture how things work in the long run.
 

Arii Stella

No Tears Left To Cry
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#17
Bronzong should be added to Stealth Rock setters.
Remove Xerneas from Ekiller checks, Extreme Speed 2HKOes it and Moonblast / Focus Blast (which is very uncommon now) aren't even OHKO moves.

Edit- I mean after SD, there's no way to stop Ekiller with Xerneas once it's boosted.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 184 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 325-383 (74 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I know already that Xerneas wins the 1v1 if both are full hp but doesn't mean that it is a check.
 
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#18
I didn't know if Minority wants to include set up sweepers in the OP, so I guess I'll start a preliminary section for that:

Set-up Sweepers

Swords Dance:

Dragon Dance:


Geomancy:


Calm Mind:


Rock Polish:


Coil:


Z-Moves:
(Heal Block)
(Geomancy)
(Splash)
(Hypnosis)
(Heal
Block)

Nasty Plot:


I want to include Xurkitree in Z-moves and a Tail Glow section, but I can't find its sprite anywhere.

I'm also not sure about including Beast Boost for the UBs, Soul Heart for Magearna and Shell Smash Cloyster since they perform a role that's greatly different from "set up sweeper".
 
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Minority

Numquam Vincar
is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
#19
Also, since we are on the topic of Extreme Killer Arceus checks, I'd personally disregard all of the following as such:

1. Anything that depends on Intimidate.
2. Anything that depends on Focus Blast.
3. Anything that depends on Will-O-Wisp (due to the possibility of Lum Berry in combination with the fact that this move's accuracy is still shaky).
4. Anything that depends on Destiny Bond (it cannot be used consecutively anymore).
5. Anything that depends on both of the following conditions being met: 1. Not suffering a critical hit from a +2 Shadow Claw, and 2. Not missing with Dragon Tail or Draco Meteor.

Do not think of Pokémon in terms of a single battle. Try to picture how things work in the long run.
Do not think of Pokemon in terms of absolutes. Everything in Pokemon is situational and should be treated as such. If you're going to go as far as not calling something a check because it falls to a critical hit, then there aren't really checks to anything. Better to have a list of EKiller checks that work most of the time than an empty list of EKiller checks that work 100% of the time.

Remove Xerneas from Ekiller checks, Extreme Speed 2HKOes it and Moonblast / Focus Blast (which is very uncommon now) aren't even OHKO moves.
I don't know what Xern spread you're running, but even Adamant LO EKiller doesn't 2HKO Xern.

I didn't know if Minority wants to include set up sweepers in the OP
No I don't, since adding such a section goes against the principal of the OP. Setup sweepers are not something you're actively checking to make sure you have when building a team.
 
#20
Remove Celesteela from Xerneas checks; +2 Thunder and/or thunder+moonblast Koes, while Celesteela is slower and cannot OHKO back.
Either remove ekiller from Xerneas checks, or remove Xerneas from ekiller checks; it can't go both ways.
Remove waterceus from pogre checks. It takes ~70% from Thunder vs offensive sets, and it can't break defensive sets unless they lack rest for whatever reason. Arceus-Dragon might have to go as well, but at least it can toxic and then recover spam for a while on Ice Beam.
Add Nihilega to toxic spikes, or remove it from rocks. Don't have much of an opinion as to its relevance, but it gets both.
Mega Gengar to Xerneas checks.
 
#21
two pokemon being able to check each other isnt contradictory though? they just do

wanting to get rid of celesteela, which easily lives xerneas' main STAB and beats most of its sets while wanting gengar to be on that list seems more contradictory to me.
imo xern checks should not include pokemon that can switch on an attacking xerneas and OHKO it but rather be able to somewhat deal with a geomancied one

waterceus helps against kyogre as you can bring in pdon on the scald/thunder after tanking an ice beam with arceus and taking close to no damage at that. it's not really something that can beat kyogre but still improves your matchup against it so it's fine on the list I think.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
response to Quantum Tesseract : its pointless to argue about the definition of check here again.
arceus should be listed because it finishes off an already damaged xern, making your team less xern weak. thats all there is to it, no need to beat it 1v1 100%
 
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#22
two pokemon being able to check each other isnt contradictory though? they just do

wanting to get rid of celesteela, which easily lives xerneas' main STAB and beats most of its sets while wanting gengar to be on that list seems more contradictory to me.
imo xern checks should not include pokemon that can switch on an attacking xerneas and OHKO it but rather be able to somewhat deal with a geomancied one


edit: waterceus helps against kyogre as you can bring in pdon on the scald/thunder after tanking an ice beam with arceus and taking close to no damage at that. it's not really something that can beat kyogre but still improves your matchup against it so it's fine on the list I think.
It's almost impossible for two Pokémon to check one another; the only chance is in certain ability interactions, like weather, intimidate, and in certain conditions download There are several kinds of checks, but even the most inclusive (revenge KOer) still requires that you at least win 1v1 100% of the time even if you can't switch in. Two Pokémon cannot both always win against each other.

Just what xerneas sets does Celesteela beat? Thunder was standard on all sets last generation, and there are no new potential xerneas checks that aren't prey to thunder (except Solgaleo, which it can't beat anyway). It might defeat resttalk z-geo, but the bulky sets can rest+ingrain off the damage. Even with your odd definition, Gengar is still superior; while both force Xerneas to use Thunder and risk a miss, Gengar can at least stop it from setting up.


Yeah, I suppose waterceus is fine as a pivot out of dong since pretty much every team is running that anyway.
E:





That's true...for counters. No two Pokemon can fully counter each other, but two can certainly check each other depending on the scenario, such as Primal Groudon vs Primal Kyogre. Defensive Primal Kyogre straight up loses to SD Primal Groudon, but support Primal Groudon loses to just about any Primal Kyogre.

A counter is something that is guaranteed to win vs another particular mon, but a check is something that sometimes wins vs another mon.

I will agree that Celesteela is a poor Xerneas check, though. Celesteela is supposed to be checking Mega Mence, certain support Arceus formes and Rayquaza/Primal Groudon that lack Fire coverage.
Yes, that was improper wording on my part - I should have mentioned Ability mechanics there, as that dynamic does exist. Still, Xerneas and Arceus don't have that kind of matchup, and in terms of ubers-usable pokemon it's limited to PDon/Ogre and Landorus-T/Landorus-T.

The second half, though, is definitally wrong. Checks have to have a cirumstance where they always win: Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax; Loosely defined, anything that reliably beats the threat. Even Pogre and PDon only barely do it, with some sets even winning in the other weather--Xerneas and Arceus do not.
 
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#23
It's impossible for two Pokémon to check one another.


Two Pokémon cannot both always win against each other.
That's true...for counters. No two Pokemon can fully counter each other, but two can certainly check each other depending on the scenario, such as Primal Groudon vs Primal Kyogre. Defensive Primal Kyogre straight up loses to SD Primal Groudon, but support Primal Groudon loses to just about any Primal Kyogre.

A counter is something that is guaranteed to win vs another particular mon, but a check is something that sometimes wins vs another mon.

I will agree that Celesteela is a poor Xerneas check, though. Celesteela is supposed to be checking Mega Mence, certain support Arceus formes and Rayquaza/Primal Groudon that lack Fire coverage.
 
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#25
I agree it's too pedantic to care about definitions... Very seldom do mons in the Uber tier have true counters, and at some point most of us playing the tier label certain counterplays to something as "checks". It's probably not the best formally speaking, but as it stands something like Arceus-Normal is part of counterplay vs Xerneas for offensive teams. Similarly, in another situation, Xerneas might be the counterplay to an Arceus-Normal. This brings me to my next point: the capability of player is often determined by situation assessment... Another easy counterexample to the logic that "2 Pokémon can't be checks to one another" would be the Pdon Mence relationship. In some cases switching a Pdon into a Mence to phaze entirely acceptable, whereas in another game Mence becomes what stands in the way of a PDon sweep. It's almost ridiculous to accept these formal definitions as they don't concern themselves with actual gameplay scenarios. Don't get too hung open definitions, they won't matter much in practice.

With that said we could relabel the word "check" into something else if it causes too much confusion?

Edit: In retort to the above post (as well as the post claiming Arc-Water isn't an answer to Pogre). This is looking at the game without considering how often sets are really run. POgres main set doesn't run Thunder, thus many situations allow Arceus-Water to stall it. Salamence almost never runs EQ, but Ekiller does. Does TTar actually run shuca? Don't try to look at stuff in vacuum, as cliche as that may sound.
 

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