Online Competition Ultra No Holds Barred

Theorymon

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#1
The next online competition has been announced (and is happening AFTER my finals \o/)

This time, it's Gamefreak's own take on Anything Goes! No Species Clause or Item Clause here! However, Gamefreak has some different limitations compared to what we're used to!

Major rules

- This is a 3v3 metagame. You bring 6, pick 3.

- All Pokemon are auto leveled to level 100. Sorry folks, no FEAR shenigans this time!

- Species Clause and Item Clause DON'T EXIST! YEEEEHAW!

- Poketransporter is allowed. Better get ready for those FISSURE SLOWBRO! And other things that actually matter lol.

Banlist

These Pokemon are not allowed. It's a pretty unusual banlist for this kind of competition! It's actually the exact same as last years...

Mewtwo
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Arceus
Reshiram
Zekrom
Kyurem
Xerneas
Yveltal
Solgaleo
Lunala


Notable newly allowed Pokemon

As it turns out, the banlist is exactly the same as last years! So that means these Pokemon are now allowed, unlike most battle spot competitions! So yes, most mythical Pokemon are allowed! I'll go over the ones that were big last year, and the two big new ones!

Marshadow
Zygarde (all formes)
Necrozma (all formes)
Magearna
Jirachi
Genesect
Shaymin-S


I don't have quite enough time to go over how the metagame was like last year, but last year's thread should be a useful resource, since a lot of what worked there will probably work this year. The big difference is gonna be that the new Necrozma formes ARE allowed, and they will probably have a pretty big impact! Naganadel sounds sorta nice in this world too to me, since Speed bosting past Marshadow sounds handy if you got Stealth Rock up. Anyways, here's the thread!

2017 No Holds Barred Thread:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/2017-no-holds-barred.3610937/

Once I find some time (or a mod can do this if they want lol), we can put a new viability list here too for prepration. We got a little over 3 weeks to prepare for this competition, so good luck folks!

Viability List

This metagame JUST got announced! But I do have last year's viability list. Don't take it as gospel, but it could be helpful for now! It also includes some mini analyses for the big mythical Pokemon!

2017 No Holds Barred Viability Rankings
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/2017-no-holds-barred.3610937/page-5#post-7475372
 
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Theorymon

I see what you did there!
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#3
Something worth noting is that both the Korean magazine code and Pokemon Center 20th anniversary Shaymin do have Celebrate. Will they have any impact on the meta, though?
I'm not sure, but that does sound potentially intresting at least. Shaymin-S getting a speed boost sounds great against scarfers and Deoxys-A, especially since Marshadow risks an Air Slash flinch or just gets nuked after Stealth Rock. Could be worth looking into! Maybe it'd make regular Shaymin actually viable too, since it'd be a particularly bulky use of this strat. Just gotta watch out for Marshadow especially in that case lol.
 
#4
This may be have been the earlier-posted topic, but as I was writing my own summary of the new format, I expressed the ban list as "everything with an innate base stat total (without taking any in-battle transformations into account) of 660 or higher, except Slaking/Regigigas/Hoopa-U/Necrozma fusions", and that is in fact a more accurate definition. In particular, your supposed ban list includes Cosmog and Cosmoem, but those two are not banned. Go ahead, live the dream with all those Nebby sweeps you've been planning.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
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#5
So not much is different here compared to the last No Holds Barred, the one big thing is that Necrozma is allowed. I'll probably just use my old team that got me 1700 on Showdown for practicing, but swap Zygarde for Ultra Necrozma lol. Webs + Marsh and/or Zygarde/Necrozma is always really fun. Abusing the lack of species clause is really tempting, but I find it results in a real lack of synergy. The one exception is probably running multiple Focus Sash Marshadow, because that's broken lol. One thing to look out for is an increase in Umbreon usage, possibly even Chople Berry sets, as a check to the (presumably) plethora of Necrozma going around.
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 166-196 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chople Berry Umbreon: 135-160 (66.8 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Marshadow: 189-223 (113.8 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Theorymon

I see what you did there!
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#6
Ah yes, I can assure you from the Ubers battle spot special we had a while back that Umbreon is a fantastic Pokemon whenever Ultra Necrozma is allowed. Seriously, don't forget to check that thing, it can ruin you, because it happens to be VERY well adapted to messing with teams that overprepare for Ubers.

Sorta makes me thing that Tapu Fini will be good stuff like usual, but note that when Necrozmas don't Ultra Burst, Fini doesn't do too granda against them.

Oh yeah a recent thought I had: while you can only run one of each Necrozma due to how the forme change works, I don't think anything prevents you from using BOTH Necrozma formes! I might actually do this, since Dusk Mane Necrozma is honestly really good on its own, so this can let me use both Dusk Mane Necrozma AND Ultra Necrozma on the same team of sorts! It also helps that STAB Moongeist Beam hurts a lot of stuff in this metagame (though it's still very Umbreon weak lol). Maybe I can rig up some anti Umbreon Calm Mind set hmm...

+1 252 SpA Neuroforce Ultra Necrozma Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Umbreon: 149-175 (73.7 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ultra Necrozma: 144-170 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Ok that's not very impressive lol, though I guess it sorta works. Might have to stick with this at the cost of only one Necrozma being able to Ultra Burst. I don't think both can do that in one match, but its still a bit of a hit in diversity. Oh well, at least Dusk Mane Necrozma is still hella good on its own!

+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 289-342 (143 - 169.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Theorymon

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#9
So I was thinking about trying out Offensive Trick Room Dusk Mane Necrozma, and after seeing Thick Fat Azumarill smash me with it, I decided to nuke the Stealth Rock slot on the offensive support one I've been using for Trick Room. And I gotta say: holy FUCK this thing is destructive! Its so insanely bulky, and +2 Searing Sunraze Smash pretty much nukes almost everything in the game.

I know a lot of people are gravitating towards Ultra Necrozma, but I have some advice: consider using Dawn Wings Necrozma for your Ultra Necrozma needs (even if you want Swords Dance, giving up Sunsteel Strike is very reasonable when Photon Geyser smashes most of the fairies anyways), and letting Dusk Mane Necrozma use Solgaium Z with Trick Room (or even Stealth Rock). It's an incredibly effective use of the lack of species clause since they're so different, and this kind of Dusk Mane Necrozma makes MINCEMEAT of its usual checks! Consider me very impressed!

Also, Im amazed how kind this metagame is to Dawn Wings Necrozma. In addition to being able to run that lure SD set, its a pretty good special attacker too, since Moongiest Beam is very hard to switch into before you Ultra Burst. Don't leave that thing out!
 
#10
Tapu Lele (preferably a Scarf set) could prove useful because it checks Marshadow and Ultra Necrozma (Timid Moonblast does not always OHKO though), and actually provides support for the latter.

What about Zygarde, BTW? Seems to be in an odd spot.
 
#12
Ash-Greninja was allowed last year, and continues to be legal this time. Among people who ranked highly enough to be tabulated in the official site's usage data (I believe this means 3 games above .500 or better), 276 people used a Protean Greninja in original NHB, 233 people used one with Battle Bond, and a curious 5 who probably didn't know any better (but still ranked highly enough) used one with Torrent.
 
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#13
I've been using Greninja-Ash quite a bit, mainly because it can outspeed and KO the Necrozma forms, since it has enough speed to outpace Ultra Necrozma. The only major downside is that your using a very weak Pokemon before transformation, so use hazards to wear down its checks. Sample Set:
Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam
Calcs: 252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 270-318 (96 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 456-536 (135.7 - 159.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 331-391 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken-Mega: 402-486 (133.5 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mimikyu: 291-343 (115.4 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Speaking of Mimikyu, I haven't seen it as much as in BSS. I guess its because that all 3 Necrozma's forms can KO it through disguise.
 
#14
I've been using Greninja-Ash quite a bit, mainly because it can outspeed and KO the Necrozma forms, since it has enough speed to outpace Ultra Necrozma. The only major downside is that your using a very weak Pokemon before transformation, so use hazards to wear down its checks. Sample Set:
Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam
Calcs: 252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 270-318 (96 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 456-536 (135.7 - 159.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Marshadow: 331-391 (102.7 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken-Mega: 402-486 (133.5 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mimikyu: 291-343 (115.4 - 136.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Speaking of Mimikyu, I haven't seen it as much as in BSS. I guess its because that all 3 Necrozma's forms can KO it through disguise.
Specs Koko can handle Blancozma quite well too.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 324-384 (96.4 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO. Fairly safe roll.
From your list, I think it is Blaziken the one that is the mayor issue to Koko.
 
#15
Specs Koko can handle Blancozma quite well too.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 324-384 (96.4 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO. Fairly safe roll.
From your list, I think it is Blaziken the one that is the mayor issue to Koko.
But there’s also the chance that Necrozma stays in base form and KOES Koko back. Ash-Greninja can OHKO all variations except DM
 
#17
The problem with Dark-types against Necrozma (the only type alongside Ghost that hits it super-effectively in all its formes) is that... well... only one of them outspeeds Ultra Necrozma, and that one mon that outspeeds requires a prior KO to transform - meanwhile, Necrozma-DM comfortably takes a Specs Dark Pulse from regular Greninja, Ultra Bursts and OHKOes back with Signal Beam or Brick Break.

And Scarfed Dark-types are out of the equation, by the way:

252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 270-320 (80.5 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 296-350 (88.3 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

You'd have a better shot with Mega Gengar, though you still have to gamble on whether it can Ultra Burst because even Dusk Mane's Sunsteel Strike can OHKO if not burned (32 HP EVs avoid the OHKO).
 
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#18
The problem with Dark-types against Necrozma (the only type alongside Ghost that hits it super-effectively in all its formes) is that... well... only one of them outspeeds Ultra Necrozma, and that one mon that outspeeds requires a prior KO to transform - meanwhile, Necrozma-DM comfortably takes a Specs Dark Pulse from regular Greninja, Ultra Bursts and OHKOes back with Signal Beam or Brick Break.

And Scarfed Dark-types are out of the equation, by the way:

252 Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 270-320 (80.5 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 296-350 (88.3 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

You'd have a better shot with Mega Gengar, though you still have to gamble on whether it can Ultra Burst because even Dusk Mane's Sunsteel Strike can OHKO if not burned (32 HP EVs avoid the OHKO).
I have yet to see Brick Break and Signal Beam on Necrozma-ultra. If that really does concern you, you can always run Mandibuzz since it is neutral to those moves.

Has anyone tried Mega Diancie? It has some nice perks like being one of the few mixed attackers of Fairy types.
 

Theorymon

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#19
Funnily enough, I feel like Necrozma has made Darkrai quite a bit better than it was last year. While its still slower which is a bummer, Darkrai is actually sorta nasty for a lot of teams to switch into, Specs Pulse (or Sash Nasty Plot) really packs a punch!

I might try a semi bulky Darkrai actually, you dont really need that many defense EVs to survive Ultra Necrozma's Outrage. It does get boddied by Solgaium Z ones tho, not even Specs actually KOs Dusk Mane lol
 
#20
I said it last year and I'll say it again. Cofagrigus is amazing in this meta and walls many common physical threats, and can set up Trick Room easily. Nothing can OHKO it. Dusk Mane Necrozma and Ultra Necrozma both fail to 2HKO it with any attack (except a +2 Searing Sunrise Smash or +2 Light That Burns The Sky). Zygarde forms can't do much against it at all. Not even a Swords Dance boosted Ultra Necrozma can OHKO it with Knock Off which does 80%. It can tank a Spectral Thief AND a Shadow Sneak from Marshadow. And I'm not even factoring in Cofagrigus' Will-O-Wisp.
In return Cofagrigus can OHKO Ultra Necrozma and Marshadow with Never-Ending Nightmare, or 2HKO Dusk Mane Necrozma.
 
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#21
I'm enjoying this a lot, especially since I now have a much better team than for the first NHB. I can't do it now, but later I'll post the team that I'm using just to show it off tho feedback would be cool too.
 
#22
Just testing the old Sticky Webs Shuckle lead, and it had me wondering; does it actually need to hold a Mental Herb these days? What commonly used Pokemon is actually going to be running Taunt in this meta? Maybe a Tapu? :/
 
#23
A meta filled with Necrozmas, Zygardes, Mamoswines, Ghost-types and Sticky Web setters? Remind me to pack my Taunt Mega Gyarados, because it sounds like he's going to shred face (with hazard support to break a certain little candle's Sashes, of course).
 
#24
Oh hey I actually remembered to do something for once. Anyways, here's the team I'm planning on using (just click on the images to view. Any and all feedback is appreciated. Thank you!
 
#25
I still want an answer for my Taunt/Mental Herb/Shuckle question...

Also the issue of breaking Sashes with hazards/weather has been raised. Is there any potential for Hippowdon in this meta? A solid physical wall with Sand Stream, Stealth Rock, Whirlwind, Earthquake, Ice Fang(?) would seem to do well on paper. Better than A-Ninetails.
 

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