seconded. it's been a great read!
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Challenge Ultra Sun "Dexit Challenge" - seeing as few Pokemon as possible [COMPLETE]
- Thread starter SadisticMystic
- Start date
Miscellaneous Loose Ends
While Episode RR is of course the brunt of the "quest" portion of postgame activities, with levels that continue scaling sensibly from where the main game left off, there are other things to do too. Some of those things, like talking to Kazumasa Iwao from Game Freak to get the Shiny Charm and the Pokemon Center Lady outfit, are completely pointless in a run like this, as the minimum completion level to get that simply ends up being "the whole Pokedex". Still, there are other tasks that force more Pokedex progress while not requiring that much.
If I count doing all those things, the adjusted Pokedex is at 170 seen, and there are a few other things I could do that require further stray dex entries here and there (like battling the principal at the Trainers' School to get that King's Rock, which would force me to take Stoutland). But it's been a whole month, and I'm ready to reload my old file. To the team that got us through all this...you know how much you're capable of, or at least you know more about it than you did before. If you want to sit down and take a break...you've earned it. Or...if you want to go adventure off with someone else, to get a broaderPokedex horizon...tell them to search for "Minidex" here to check out snapshots of you all as you were immediately after Giovanni was defeated, assuming they have the right tools to make use of that format.
While Episode RR is of course the brunt of the "quest" portion of postgame activities, with levels that continue scaling sensibly from where the main game left off, there are other things to do too. Some of those things, like talking to Kazumasa Iwao from Game Freak to get the Shiny Charm and the Pokemon Center Lady outfit, are completely pointless in a run like this, as the minimum completion level to get that simply ends up being "the whole Pokedex". Still, there are other tasks that force more Pokedex progress while not requiring that much.
- 99th Totem Sticker: I've talked about this before: the sticker, and long-missed Acrobatics TM, are located on a hilly island on Route 15 where access is gated behind a battle with Surfer Jennis at the base of the hill. He uses Mantine and nothing else, but it's close to 30 levels down and is absolutely not a problem to defeat, as long as we're fine with seeing Mantine as the cost of taking care of this piece of business. After that it's a clear shot to run up and grab the goodies. (+1 dex entry)
- 100th Totem Sticker: Getting this one, and along with it the ability to claim all rewards, is a more arduous journey. The last remaining sticker is at the gate to the Battle Tree, so I have to go all the way back through Poni Grove, then Poni Plains, and deal with Veteran Leon and his team of Skarmory, Electivire, and Araquanid. Those last two hit pretty hard, but by now we have a small level advantage over them (they're all 59) and they're quite beatable. After beating him, I can talk to Looker to have him and Anabel move out of the way so Anabel can start training at the Battle Tree. The Battle Tree has "special trainers" that you fight every 10th battle in Super modes, and one possible trainer is Anabel, but she only appears one-seventh as often as any of the other possibilities. (In original Sun/Moon, your first introduction to Anabel was during Guzzlord's chapter of the UB saga, and it was possible to get to the Battle Tree without ever seeing her: if you did, and happened to roll one of those rare encounters against her, the battle got silently vetoed and replaced by an ordinary trainer even though it's still a battle number ending in 0.) Getting rid of them means I can move on to Poni Coast, where there are no mandatory trainers, and then to Poni Gauntlet where there's only one: Black Belt Tracy with Hawlucha and Machamp. And then, with the entrance in sight and that last sticker visible, there are a pair of Veterans looking menacing, and using all-in sun teams that would combine to add 5 Pokedex entries. The only problem is...that's a double battle, so by carefully letting Tracy's Machamp take out my whole team except Haunter, the couple refuses to battle, and I neither have to beat them nor take those extra entries. Instead I can simply pluck off this sticker and get one last notification from Samson. (+3 dex entries)
- Unlock Mega Evolution, and all fly locations: There are three fly locations I don't have yet. One is the Battle Tree, for which I can simply go forward to cross the loading zone and unlock it, then come right back, as the cutscene for entering Battle Tree doesn't take effect until I'm a couple steps in. Ruins of Conflict notably forces me to walk past Lillie and Nebby, where Lillie suggests that the now-Solgaleo is better off in my hands...but this is only a suggestion, and I don't have to battle, let alone catch it. Other than that it's just a direct path to the Ruins, no obstacles along the way of the restored bridge. Then the last is Poni Meadow, but to get there I have to fight Dexio with his mono-Psychic team. Oddly, despite having only 5 team members, he includes neither the Mime Jr. from his previous encounter nor the evolved Mr. Mime, but that's completely fine by me. In all, Dexio's battle adds two more entries: Espeon at the beginning and Mega Alakazam at the end. U-turn spam ends up going a long way here, as does Crobat outspeeding everyone except Alakazam and predictably being able to draw Psychic. To deal with Alakazam, I end up having to sack off Smeargle to get Granbull in safely and use Crunch (Bulldoze so Haunter could outspeed was another option, but Haunter already ran upon the ethereal sword of Destiny Bond to take down Metagross). In addition to letting me pass, Dexio also gives me the Key Stone upgrade to my Z-ring, and starts off the mega stone collection with a useless Alakazite. Now I can walk into Poni Meadow to unlock the last Fly spot immediately, and even continue on into Resolution Cave if I wanted to and not have to face any further battles, but there's not really much point. Dexio can challenge me again on route 16 once I catch Zygarde--the team is identical to this last battle except that everyone's gained three levels, Alakazam isn't mega, and the last slot is filled by a Zygarde-10--but I'd rather not. Winning that battle would only give me the Zygarde Cube (prefilled with 40 cells), and the living Zygarde-10 as a gift to represent the last 10. (+2 dex entries)
- Get all typed Z-crystals: When you go to go to load your file after the title screen, or on the screen to save the game, there's a zigzagging string of Z crystals, showing all the regular typed crystals that have been obtained (but not the specialties like Lycanium, Incinium, or Kommonium). Right now I have 17, so there's only Ice to get, and for that we have to forge back into Mount Lanakila. But this time...I won't use Repels or Roto Stealth. Instead, I have the Cleanse Tag, and...it turns out the Intimidate ability has yet another use. In addition to Attack reduction, or making SOS calls more likely to succeed, it (along with the overall less useful Keen Eye) can reduce encounters in a way similar to, and cumulative with, Cleanse Tag. But in order to achieve this effect, the wilds have to be at least five levels below the Intimidate user. This wasn't true the first time we went up the mountain, but it certainly is now, so leading Cleanse Tag Granbull reduces the encounter rate far enough that it's plausible to get through the cave areas with no encounters. I want to enter from the bottom of course, not the top, because that double battle is still blockading the top end. By going this route, I only have to deal with Veteran Ella and her Pyroar, Claydol, and Milotic. The level difference in our favor makes this mostly an afterthought; Milotic can still hit pretty hard but its moveset is Hydro Pump, Blizzard, and nothing else, making it easy to stall out and finish itself with Struggle if I so desired. After that battle, I just have to go around one more curve, pick the Icium Z from the pedestal (again without a mentor to teach the dance), and get out with Escape Rope...which only backs up as far as the Necrozma crater, but that's still far enough to fly away immediately. Interestingly, the order of the shown Z-crystals is unrelated to the order they were picked up over the course of the game, and is the same for everyone. Pokemon has two notably canonical orderings of their types: one is internal index number ordering which starts Normal-Fighting-Flying, which you may be familiar with from the Hidden Power formula, and this is the order used if you click the Search button in the PC and try to filter by type. The other ordering begins Normal-Fire-Water, and is shown in contexts like the Type Matchup Tests menu, as well as the order your Z-crystals will arrange into if you choose to sort that pocket by type. Even if you don't sort that pocket, it's also the order the crystals will be arranged in on the save screen, so instead of 18th, Icium Z jumps to 6th in that line. To think, it's never going to be used here. (+1 dex entry)
- Defeat the last totem: Yes, even after Ribombee, there's still one more totem I can battle. This quest starts with a trip to Ilima's house, where he asks for a battle...but not here, we have to go back to the Trainers' School. Battle-wise his team is nothing special (well, except for the special moves on Smeargle that masquerade as "coverage"): it's the exact same team as at the beginning of Mina's trial except +9 levels, and Komala now has Zen Headbutt for some reason (instead of an empty moveslot). Granbull has a level advantage and Brick Break to use against them. Finish that, go back to his house, and then I can leave and reenter his room to get a key item called "Ilima's Normalium Z", because my own Normalium Z clearly isn't good enough. Now the stage is set for a return to Verdant Cavern, and the last totem battle...which is a rematch of the first one, Gumshoos (or Raticate on the moon side). Only now it's level 60, and it has the same totem boost as Ribombee (+2 everything). Similar to that Wishiwashi chain in Brooklet Hill, it will also call for a neverending stream of SOS allies, in spite of any status, until the totem faints. As with the previous time I fought Gumshoos, this is the one totem I don't have to OHKO, and I can afford to have a longer-term battle plan. In fact, this is where totems using trainer AI strikes me as being an active detriment, as I can repeatedly swap between Granbull and Haunter while knowing that Haunter never takes anything on its switch turns, and Granbull takes seven Crunches while it stacks the Intimidates down to -6, but fails to be reduced below even half health in the process. There's no fear that Gumshoos might start randomly selecting moves and have Haunter wanter into a stray Crunch. From there, beating Gumshoos is a slow but inevitable process with its meager attacking power and boosted defenses, and the lone Yungoos can do absolutely nothing to Haunter except slow it down with Yawn. I might not be able to get the Pokemon Center Lady outfit, but the Trial Guide outfit is another matter! (+0 dex entries)
- Unlock the ability to use the Battle Tree: While I can fly there right now, in order to compete at the tree challenge itself, and unlock the last set of move tutors and BP shops (which include the ability to buy mega stones), there's no getting around my introduction to the bosses of the tree: Red and Blue. I have to choose one of them to battle, and losing against them isn't productive in that I still can't proceed until I win. Blue is the vastly preferable option here as he adds only two entries (or three if I battle Blue before Dexio, as I wouldn't have Alakazam yet), compared to five if I picked Red. His lead Alakazam can't KO Granbull so it sets up Reflect before taking a Bulldoze, but this qualifies for a resist switch to one of his new Pokemon in Aerodactyl (who carries Iron Head), and I dutifully double to Wishiwashi. Aerodactyl doesn't get its Rock Slide flinch, so Scald is a OHKO, then the other Pokedex nibbler--Exeggutor comes out. Protect to stall a Reflect turn, switch to Crobat and eat Leaf Storm, then Protect has expired and I can OHKO with Z-U-turn. Alakazam now outspeeds Crobat and has an easy KO before I can move, but it makes the obvious big-brain play of trying to get that KO with Future Sight, meaning I can U-turn out for a hefty chunk of damage and put Granbull back in. Alakazam now goes for Reflect again but is weak enough for Crunch to finish it off through the screen, and as Machamp comes out I sack off Crobat to the incoming Future Sight (hey, Alakazam got to hit the target it wanted to hit all along!) and I rotate Granbull back in for both Intimidate and AI manipulation. Machamp wants to use Poison Jab here, but at -1 that won't KO Smeargle (even if it poisons on top of that), and Smeargle is fast enough to pull out the Destiny Bond next turn. Arcanine is fifth, and it's a tricky one that requires switching between Wishiwashi, Litten, Haunter, and Granbull in a sort of four-way partial trap pivot that ends with the result I wanted: sacking off Granbull to a Flare Blitz when Arcanine is low enough on health that it KOs itself with recoil. This clears the field and opens up Haunter to come in one last time. It's level 67 now from the experience of this final burst of battles, but even 66 would have been good enough to speed-creep his lastmon Gyarados, bait out Crunch, and pull the Destiny Bond trigger. Boo...or rather, Boo-yah! (+2 dex entries)
If I count doing all those things, the adjusted Pokedex is at 170 seen, and there are a few other things I could do that require further stray dex entries here and there (like battling the principal at the Trainers' School to get that King's Rock, which would force me to take Stoutland). But it's been a whole month, and I'm ready to reload my old file. To the team that got us through all this...you know how much you're capable of, or at least you know more about it than you did before. If you want to sit down and take a break...you've earned it. Or...if you want to go adventure off with someone else, to get a broader
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Except it's not so nice, because despite being to a place called Exeggutor Island twice already, Exeggutor still hadn't been seen by Pokedex standards until the Blue battle and is in fact another new entry there, making the real count 170.
This leads into a different matter: Would a playthrough of X, or Omega Ruby, be interesting enough with this same objective in mind? Alolan Dexit runs feature the unique dynamic of SOS battles, such that new Pokemon can appear in the middle of a battle, most notably in the totem battles where they represent the main difficulty gates of the run: if and only if I have someone on the team who can manage to dismiss the totem in a single turn, I get to avoid racking up another Pokedex entry. Other than that, the only difference between this and a regular old low-grinding run (where it's just a matter of "can my team overcome these other teams by some means") comes in the multi battles, if there are any of those where my teammate's backups haven't been seen yet at the time (like in Aether Paradise here, most infamously with Faba 2).
Is there enough left at that point to make it a genuine challenge, you think? Are people just clamoring that much for an index of every battle in the game that features an opposing party of 2+ and that it's okay to lose? Are there still any unelucidated mechanics I haven't yet gone over that have relevant tie-ins to the course of these other games?
This leads into a different matter: Would a playthrough of X, or Omega Ruby, be interesting enough with this same objective in mind? Alolan Dexit runs feature the unique dynamic of SOS battles, such that new Pokemon can appear in the middle of a battle, most notably in the totem battles where they represent the main difficulty gates of the run: if and only if I have someone on the team who can manage to dismiss the totem in a single turn, I get to avoid racking up another Pokedex entry. Other than that, the only difference between this and a regular old low-grinding run (where it's just a matter of "can my team overcome these other teams by some means") comes in the multi battles, if there are any of those where my teammate's backups haven't been seen yet at the time (like in Aether Paradise here, most infamously with Faba 2).
Is there enough left at that point to make it a genuine challenge, you think? Are people just clamoring that much for an index of every battle in the game that features an opposing party of 2+ and that it's okay to lose? Are there still any unelucidated mechanics I haven't yet gone over that have relevant tie-ins to the course of these other games?
I think X, specifically, might be interesting.
it has the largest dex in the series, with a suite of new wild pokemon every route, and that extends to the trainers. Feels there's some potential there at how low the dex can reasonably get, and how that would affect what pokemon you can even use, especially as the levels rise but trainers continue to only use one or two pokemon at various stages of evolution.
RSE or ORAS though, eh, I dunno. I get the vibes that wouldn't be too interesting.
it has the largest dex in the series, with a suite of new wild pokemon every route, and that extends to the trainers. Feels there's some potential there at how low the dex can reasonably get, and how that would affect what pokemon you can even use, especially as the levels rise but trainers continue to only use one or two pokemon at various stages of evolution.
RSE or ORAS though, eh, I dunno. I get the vibes that wouldn't be too interesting.
I think you have enough of a taste for showmanship and game mechanic knowledge to make any run at least moderately interesting, but to be perfectly honest I don't see the "dexit" part of either of those games adding a lot. As far as I know there's nothing to reducing the seen counter in those games besides minimizing encounters, losing optional fights, keeping allies in multis alive, and probably the Geosenge deathwarp in XY. I can't think of any notable multi battle in either game; worst cases are probably some minorly precarious ones in the final Team Flare gauntlet with Calem/Serena's Meowstic lead vs Dark types (and that's assuming you can lose to them in the first place, otherwise it doesn't matter if Meowstic faints). There's also the team restrictions of course, and while I think ORAS could be interesting on that front for a while XY quickly trivializes itself with access to Hawlucha and Lucario.