Resource Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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#3
Mat be unrelated, but I ave never done this before. I want to make a analysis for Tapu Fini, how do I go about posting it and where?
You can reserve a Pokemon analysis for here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ion-index-read-the-op-check-post-138.3588447/

and post your analysis in this subforum when you're approved. However, Tapu Fini's already been taken by somebody we can trust with quality writing + knowledge of the metagame. Don't let that stop you from posting ideas when Fini's thread finally gets posted, however.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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#5
Can analyses include common damage calcs that the mon in question may have to face? (Against a check, or something)
No, thats not really a thing that we include in analyses. You can say something like this ev spread avoids the 2HKO from "x" pokemon's attack, but a direct damage calc is not necessary.
 

avocado

queen vados
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#7
What's with so many sets having dumb names?

Biggest example I just saw is Ash-Greninja's specs set (which is the 1st one for now), named "Who Needs Coverage?".. whatever happened to simplifying names unless its a unique exception like crocune, crumbler, or Britscor or whatever Gliscor's set name was?

Generally speaking analyses usually have the set's main purpose as the name. If it's a 4 attacks LO then it's called LO. Swords Dance sets are Swords Dance, walls are physically/specially defense or utility depending on the pokemon, Choice sets are Choice (scarf/specs/band), etc.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
#8
What's with so many sets having dumb names?

Biggest example I just saw is Ash-Greninja's specs set (which is the 1st one for now), named "Who Needs Coverage?".. whatever happened to simplifying names unless its a unique exception like crocune, crumbler, or Britscor or whatever Gliscor's set name was?

Generally speaking analyses usually have the set's main purpose as the name. If it's a 4 attacks LO then it's called LO. Swords Dance sets are Swords Dance, walls are physically/specially defense or utility depending on the pokemon, Choice sets are Choice (scarf/specs/band), etc.
I can't speak for others but all of the analyses that I do have had stupid names for the sets until they're written, just for fun.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
#10
What's with so many sets having dumb names?

Biggest example I just saw is Ash-Greninja's specs set (which is the 1st one for now), named "Who Needs Coverage?".. whatever happened to simplifying names unless its a unique exception like crocune, crumbler, or Britscor or whatever Gliscor's set name was?

Generally speaking analyses usually have the set's main purpose as the name. If it's a 4 attacks LO then it's called LO. Swords Dance sets are Swords Dance, walls are physically/specially defense or utility depending on the pokemon, Choice sets are Choice (scarf/specs/band), etc.
Because fun things are fun

And they've been popping up more often (but not too often) in Gen VI and nobody really batted an eye, perhaps after gen V where basically no set name deviated from the norm. Sure, there has to be moderation to such things, and that's why you can request to have the names normalized. Plus 8/10 of the time they're renamed to something more appropriate in writing stages. I wouldn't give it any eye.
 
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#11
If you don't mind me asking, what exactly is the minimum level of viability that has to be expected of a Pokemon in order to get an analysis? As an avid teambuilder who loves experimenting with very niche and outright mediocre Pokemon(which would very likely be considered bad Pokemon in your eyes), the disparity in what Smogon generally considers "viable" and what I consider "viable" has been troublesome for me in the past. For example, Shedinja getting an analysis but not Golisopod confused me at first. Is the basic criterion of viability having a niche both specific to the metagame and itself irrespective of how good the Pokemon is?
 
#12
If you don't mind me asking, what exactly is the minimum level of viability that has to be expected of a Pokemon in order to get an analysis? As an avid teambuilder who loves experimenting with very niche and outright mediocre Pokemon(which would very likely be considered bad Pokemon in your eyes), the disparity in what Smogon generally considers "viable" and what I consider "viable" has been troublesome for me in the past. For example, Shedinja getting an analysis but not Golisopod confused me at first. Is the basic criterion of viability having a niche both specific to the metagame and itself irrespective of how good the Pokemon is?
While Golisopod has strong priority and a good attack stat, his low speed in addition to his ability is an unfortunate combo. Tapu Lele's prevalence also hinders Goli's priority-centric play style. Shedinja has always had the niche of being invincible in some cases, so it almost always gets a mention.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
#13
This is more of a GP question but we need a standard for mentioning attacking Z-Moves on analyses that aren't that Pokemon's. Asked in discord and ended up settling on "Xurkitree's Gigavolt Havok from Thunderbolt" for now but if we could get something more concrete in the near future that'd be great.
 

Martin

The artist formerly known as gamer boy
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#14
I've been using HP Ground a little on Alolan Ninetales to bait out Heatran and I think it is worth an OO mention for it's ability to 2HKO max HP Tran after SR, as Ninetales is generally complete bait for it, meaning that it is nice to be able to stop it coming in for free. It's not up on the dex yet but I can't edit the OP in my thread, so I might as well post it here.
 
#15
Just wondering, why does Alolan Nintetails have 252 SpA in the utility set? Does it get any notable KOs? I've always used that set with those 252 EVs in HP, which allows you to eat more attacks and/or come in more times throughout the match to set up veil. And once you set up veil, the HP EVs give you some actual bulk to take the hit and get out. You still get OHKOs or significant damage on the few relevant targets for this mon with freeze-dry (like pelipper and landot), but most of the time since ninetails is so weak it's p much only coming in to setup, maybe encore, and get out for later.
 
#18
Is that funky Timid Kartana set getting an analysis, or nah? (The one where you neuter its ATK so it's one less than its Speed, so beast boost raises its speed instead.) Didn't want to ask on the analysis thread since it looked so tidy without my dumb questions cluttering it up :|
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
#19
Is that funky Timid Kartana set getting an analysis, or nah? (The one where you neuter its ATK so it's one less than its Speed, so beast boost raises its speed instead.) Didn't want to ask on the analysis thread since it looked so tidy without my dumb questions cluttering it up :|
no, it's not good in the slighest. It has poor typing to snowball with, and you sacrifice so much attack it's just not strong at all. Pheromosa pulls this off much better.
 

Martin

The artist formerly known as gamer boy
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#20
Just wondering, why does Alolan Nintetails have 252 SpA in the utility set? Does it get any notable KOs? I've always used that set with those 252 EVs in HP, which allows you to eat more attacks and/or come in more times throughout the match to set up veil. And once you set up veil, the HP EVs give you some actual bulk to take the hit and get out. You still get OHKOs or significant damage on the few relevant targets for this mon with freeze-dry (like pelipper and landot), but most of the time since ninetails is so weak it's p much only coming in to setup, maybe encore, and get out for later.
Max HP is rlly bad. While the KOs thing seems insiginificant on paper, it is really noticable when your actually using it because your Moonblasts do fuck all to the neutral targets you use them on, which is really, really horrible in general. Also, there are a few semi-notable things that it misses out on (not that "notable KOs" is a particularly good metric when looking at STAB moves--hint, Alolan Ninetales is clicking them a lot more than you think) include:
  • Mega Gyarados Moonblast 2HKO
  • Regular Gyarados Freeze Dry OHKO
  • SpD Mantine Freeze Dry 2HKO
  • Offensive Garchomp Freeze Dry OHKO
  • Defensive Lando-T Freeze Dry OHKO
  • PhysDef Toxapex Freeze Dry 2HKO after SR
  • Offensive Tyranitar 2HKO after SR
  • Mixed Def Hippo Freeze Dry 2HKO chance after SR
  • PhysDef Hippo Freeze Dry 2HKO
  • PhysDef Suicune Freeze Dry 2HKO chance after SR
  • Bisharp Moonblast 2HKO before SR
  • Semi-bulky Bulu variants 2HKO before SR
  • Max HP Bulu 2HKO both before and after SR
Like, there is probably more in addition to this too, but the point is that even if I ignore the fact that notable KOs is a bad argument for something like Ninetales there is quite a lot it is missing out on by not running max SpA.

Also you're plenty bulky with Aurora Veil up even without the HP investment, and you are bulky/fast enough without that setting it up shouldn't be an issue.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Has both direction and magnitude
is a Pre-Contributor
#21
Should Darkium or Dragonium Z even be considered for OO on Hydreigon? It may work for sheer wallbreaking ability, which is something it excels at.
 

Sobi

Banned deucer.
#22
Hi Hootie,

I would like to post a thread on a Pokemon that hasn't been covered on the thread. Who should I ask to gain permission to post? ^^
reservation thread said:
  • If a Pokemon is not on the reservation list and you strongly believe it deserves an OU skeleton, post in this thread with a thorough explanation as to why and the QC team will address it.
so post in this thread with -good- justification and make sure the pokemon hasn't been brought up already
 
#23
While Golisopod has strong priority and a good attack stat, his low speed in addition to his ability is an unfortunate combo. Tapu Lele's prevalence also hinders Goli's priority-centric play style. Shedinja has always had the niche of being invincible in some cases, so it almost always gets a mention.
While I mostly agree with this, the Golisopod set I use is life orb(which doesn't activate its ability), max attack, max speed(to outspeed some slow bulky Pokemon like Ttar or Clef), adamant, with First Impression, Liquidation, Aqua Jet, and Poison Jab. Poison Jab is actually a surprisingly good coverage move for Golisopod because it Adamant Life Orb Poison Jab OHKO's Tapu Lele making it harder for Tapu Lele to switch in, and it also OHKOs Tapu Bulu, and 2HKOs Tapu Fini and Azumarill. It's honestly Golisopod's best coverage move. Any time Tapu Lele comes in on a different Pokemon and gets up Psychic Terrain it definitely is a big problem for Golisopod though since it completely relies on its powerful priority to be able to threaten offensive Pokemon and it can't really wallbreak either so if you still don't think it's worth an analysis then I understand.
 
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#24
After using a Sticky Webs team for a little bit I just wanna suggest a couple changes for Shuckle.

I found Rain to be a pretty tough matchup cause Kingdra is OP and getting webs up is absolutely critical to beating it. I started to use a spread of 252 / 112 / 144+, this lets Shuckle live two uninvested rain-boosted scalds from Pelipper (assuming no burn+high rolls or crit ofc,) which is important because it's often their defogger and will likely try to anti-lead. It lets me Sticky Web turn 1 and then Knock Off their damp rock on turn two as they defog, and then web the third turn as they scald again. It also means I can web t1 and then switch to my defiant mon, and shuckle can web against pelipper later in the match assuming SR doesn't go up on your side.

It simply gives one extra turn to use against pelipper which makes beating rain teams that much easier. The safer plays are of course to either just not lead with shuckle or spam web no matter what (web pp > defog pp) but this just gives it some breathing room against rain. The defensive spread isn't super important cause of shuckle's lulzy 20/230/230 bulk but this is a notable 2HKO that it can avoid, I don't know if the fully phys def spread actually does anything important.

Defiant Thundurus deserves a mention in team options because Z-Fly makes it a very viable physical attacker this gen, and it has a better match-up against common defoggers than Bisharp, such as mega scizor and tapu fini; tapu fini is especially good at preventing webs from coming up because it has taunt, defog, and can do meaningful damage to shuckle, so it's important for the defiant mon to beat this.
 
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